Is Designer Dead? Who Sells Style? Black Athletes vs Actors, Saks Collapse & Resale’s Rise

Is  fashion casting Black talent—or typecasting it?

This week, we’re asking the question brands don’t want to answer: why are Black athletes and rappers dominating fashion ambassadorships, while Black actors and singers get sidelined? From Future and A$AP Rocky to Kendrick Lamar, the pattern is loud—and the implications are louder. Who do brands actually believe can sell luxury to the Black community?

Then in Designers, Deficits & Dividends, we break down the numbers behind the noise. Saks is spiraling toward bankruptcy, Kering and LVMH are sending mixed signals, and somehow Hermès, Coach, and Brunello Cucinelli are thriving. Welcome to the K-shaped economy—where luxury isn’t just splitting, it’s diverging.

And if you think resale is slowing down, think again. eBay’s acquisition of Depop and The RealReal surpassing $2B in GMV proves the secondhand market isn’t a trend—it’s infrastructure.

We’re also giving the girls (and the legends) their flowers: Carlos Nazario,and Ruth Carter—because real influence doesn’t always come with a campaign.

Finally, it’s time for Sew, Show, or Go—from the battle of Bottega designers to the industry’s current power players, we’re deciding who stays, who slays, and who needs to pack it up.

Fashion is evolving. The question is…who is it evolving 

IG | @isdesignerdead

TikTok | @isdesignerdead

YouTube | @IsDesignerDead

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hi kids, I'm Chris Harvey.

SPEAKER_01 0:01

I'm Elena Joyner, and I'm Chelsea Jackson.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

And this is Is Designer Dead, where we get into all things fashion and style, as well as giving you a peek behind the scenes by dissecting quarterly earnings for some of the biggest brands in retail. We give you the fun, the failures, and the foolishness of the fashion. So let's get into it. Y'all want to start with a fit check? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Um, I'll start. So I'm wearing a I forget the color, but this is a please please Isei Miyake dress. It's like turtleneck and midi. And my earrings are mango, and my shoes are Saudi Studios. Um I think I'm pronouncing that right. I found them on Instagram, so really cute.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Okay, cute.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Elena.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

I'm wearing a blazer by a brand called Align.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Um, these are Jeffrey Candle Campbell shoes and Zara jeans.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Awesome. Um, my polo is from Casablanca, and y'all know where y'all can get it from. Theluxlin.com. Period. And pants are Fear of God, and then my shoes are Marjello. So, let's get into the show. So, one thing that I wanted to talk about is black representation in terms of fashion ambassadorships. Um, and I feel like what we've been seeing is this pattern of brands are consistently picking like rappers or I guess kind of like I don't want to say stereotypical gatekeepers of the culture, but I'll say that. Um, especially in juxtaposition to what we see from um like how fashion brands are picking like non-black counterparts in regards to like fashion ambassadorship. So I'll give you guys some examples just so we can like dissect that and talk about that, and you can, you know, we can do a little just scores. Yeah. Um, so first, one example, of course, is Future, who is now an ambassador to Louis Vuitton. Formerly, of course, he had a collab with Long Vaughn. Um Kendrick Lamar actually made headlines as the first rapper to be a formal ambassador at Chanel, followed by ASAP Rocky, who is now also a fashion ambassador at Chanel. Um, and I feel like, one, yay, good for them. I love that. We love black representation, but I, when I look at these kind of appointmentships, I think about, but what about all the people who are actually like slaying it from a fashion standpoint? Like one name that comes to mind obviously is Coleman Domingo, right? Who actually does have a Valentino Beauty ambassadorship. So he's selling the fragrances, which is great. I love a fragrance, but he and he probably will also be wearing some clothes from the house, but he is not like an official fashion ambassador, right? Um, and then Michael B. Jordan, who you know y'all don't really love his fashion, but he is a well-known man.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

I did not either love his fashion. By the way.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

I know you said that. He has an ambassadorship with David Yehrman, which is great, but that's jewelry, it's not fashion. Um, and let's see, what was one other one? And then while, you know, there are some fashion influencers like Wisdom K, obviously, who's like very well known for his fashions, and he was, you know, of course, snubbed by the Matt Gella last year. And he also seemingly has only been able to do major partnerships with kind of like, I'm not gonna say lower tier brands, but brands that are not the high-end brands. I'll say that. Um, and so I also want to juxtapose that to like some of the brands that have chosen non-black um, you know, celebrities who are in different fields, right? So Burberry, Jack Draper, who is a well-known tennis star, and also Jeremy Allen White, um, who is known for his role in the bear. He is um an ambassador for Louis Vuitton. And then Bottega has a tennis player named Lorenzo Musetti, who is a fashion ambassador for them. Um then on the flip side, I do also want to play Devil's Advocate and juxtapose this to the fact that Dior does kind of break the mold because their two newest black ambassadors are Lakeith Stanfield, who is you know a well-known actor who's been acting for a while, and obviously Killian Mbappé.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Very fashionable man.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Very fashionable man, and then Killian Mbappe, who is a world-renowned football or soccer player, depending on where you live in the world. Um so I guess what do you what are your guys' thoughts on that? And what I the question I want to ask is I guess like what is fashion's idea of like how to really appeal to um, I guess, the black consumer, right? Because I assume that you are putting these black ambassadors there to one, be like tastemakers for the culture and add like a bit of like diversity to the lineup of the house, but also like it I mean fashion ambassadors are marketing, like that's a marketing play. Like you are using them to like market your brand and your um and position your brand to customers that follow these celebrities that you have like integrated into the house.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

I don't know if these fashion houses are concerned with marketing to black consumers, um, honestly. That um that is right, that's fair. Um and I think let's take Louis Vuitton out of it because obviously like Pharrell is like a whole different thing. Like I I this qu this question to me is like I don't think like the people that actually can afford to buy Dior or Louis Vuitton or these or Chanel they're not looking at Kendrick Lamar exact or not points right to to to for fashion. No, I'm saying that's my point. Like the people who care for it, why wouldn't they use it? I actually don't think that these fashion houses are looking to the black consumer who can actually buy from them to buy bu to buy from them. That's that's the only way it makes sense to me. Uh I see.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Um I I agree, but I think it's more of a clout play. Whoever is going to give you, and it's not trying to get the black consumer, it's trying to get the je ne sais quoi of the black artist aligned with your brand. The cultural capital of the black artist aligned with your brand.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

I love Colvin Domingo. He absolutely kills it on the red carpet, but he doesn't have the same cultural capital as any of the rappers that you mentioned. If you were to take someone like a LeBron James, I am surprised that he doesn't have many.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

I think he was a Louis Vuitton ambassador.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

He was a Louis Vuitton. Okay. I'm surprised I don't see him more often. I'm surprised I don't see a lot more and was he a Tony Rayleigh ambassador?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Because he was in Ton Around a lot at one point, but I don't think he was another one. But he also has like a Nike contract.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah, but that's the thing. Do you, is it like, do you have to be like one or the other? Like I'm sure Lewis Hamilton or whoever has like an official like sports contract with some sort of sports uh uh you know uh uh streetwear sports company. But he also has high fashion as well. And I'm just I didn't have any high fashion ambassadors. Oh okay. So I I've I assume I assume that it's just about cultural capital for a lot of the black um rappers, artists. And of course, as you said, they use the exact same people for a lot of like there's ASAP Rocky, I don't think he's very discerning in terms of who he uh who he aligns with. I think he really, if you put him in front of, you know, Rabin, and then you know, like every everything, like he will, I mean, and he's also very good. He had a partnership with Kings.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yeah, I mean he's and then he wore what is what was it, Botanga or YSL to his court um appearances?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

I think it was like and I think that you kind of can establish yourself as um one of the go-to's um uh you know for that. But honestly, I love Coleman Domingo, but he's not gonna he's not gonna give the cachet that they want.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, I so I think it it's a question of like what are they looking for? Um because I do think Wisdom K, like with his following, yeah, like he'll be but but then they look at influencers and they're they are like less than, right? In the the order of from celebrity. But in terms of like Wisdom K's influence, like I think that he's probably could sell more units of Dior than than Future, honestly, with his cultural cachet, maybe not like specifically in the like the rapper lane, but as far as somebody who is looked to as a fashion um aficionado and somebody who can create trends, like wisdom K is above and bounds above and beyond Kendrick Lamar and Future. And I did want to speak on your point about the last year that Met Gala I found wisdom, specifically not being invited to the dandy who met Gala as such a huge miss, specifically for old media to reach out to the creators and the and the people who are creating the new media environment. Um lastly on this point, uh I think there's also a miss on like what young millennials and Gen Z care about. Yeah. Right? From like wanting to look up and like buy something. And when I think about rappers and the uh designer being symbiotic, I think about Foxy Brown and Galeano. Right? Like, I think like when I was a kid, I was looking at Foxy Brown and Galeano, and then you're I was Foxy Brown was like Dior poster girl, like Kim and Marc Jacobs. Yeah, Kim and Mark Jacob him outfitting her for the trial and um and stuff like that. It's just like it does there's something weird about future and Dior. You know, like when are JW Anderson and Future coming together?

SPEAKER_00 9:31

I think it's because back in the day, those those partnerships were so organic. Like the designer actually loved the like Mark Jacobs and Kid and Little Kim were like friends. They were like they formed an authentic connection, and that's why it worked because she was really his muse for a lot of the things that he was doing. Right now, it's not yeah, and right now it just feels kind of random. What I do like is I feel like there's an older generation of black artists, um, maybe not Coleman Domingo, but I think Juan Carlos Esposito um or Giancarlo Esposito has been getting um a lot of work. Like there are certain older, um uh kind of more mature, like um, you know, men that I feel like are getting their their due. Um and so we'll see how it plays out. But yeah, I do I definitely think that a lot of these partnerships are just for the cultural capital and they have no other relevance.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

And they and I also think like they probably don't even know who to sign, but they're like, let's just get future and who's advising them?

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Like, they don't want to be that goes back to it. Yeah, oh, future future did that.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

Let's get them over here. It goes back to what we've always talked about is like the lack of diversity in the boardroom, right? Because you don't have anyone who is actually familiar with the culture who can actually say, like, well, actually, guys, this up-and-coming person will be great. This person will have a lot of capital soon. This person's getting a lot of buzz among like different demographics, and I think he'd be a great person to bring in. So I will say I definitely salute JW Anderson for Mbabe and Lake Samfield, because I think that's so cool and interesting, and I'd love like the different ads we've seen.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

But do you think it's him making those do you think he's making those decisions? Or there's a marketing team that's kind of making those decisions.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

I can't imagine I can't imagine that even if he is throwing them out there, I'd imagine like L E V MH is a conglomerate. Yeah, right. It was the first what was it? It was the first um European company to hit like five hundred five hundred billion market cap. Like he's not making these decisions in isolation for sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Yeah, well then that goes back to all that just pushed it forward.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

He might have put some aims in the hat, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah, he was sure I'm sure part of the conversation, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Okay, so we're on to our next segment, designers' deficits and dividends, where we talk about the business of fashion. So, first up, we're going to go over the Sachs bankruptcy. Um, so Sachs Fifth Avenue filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy in January of 2020, so a couple a couple months ago, um, after taking on significant significant debt um after acquiring Neiman Marcus in late 2024 for$2.65 billion. In the months leading up to the filing, um, late 2025 into early 2026, vendors reported uh delayed or missed payments for goods already delivered. Now that they're in bankruptcy proceedings, those pre-filing payments are not prioritized, meaning many vendors may not be paid in full or at all. So I just wanted to highlight specifically the vendor point of the bankruptcy because that's what's most recently been in the um the headlines. Obviously, there are a lot of different factors for the bankruptcy. Um, obviously, we knew it um in late 2025 when they missed their huge um interest payment. It was a hundred million dollar payment due. And so after that, everyone knew they would ultimately be going into bankruptcy. I think a few things before we kind of launch into a conversation about this is typically the um actual payments to vendors are last on the list within bankruptcy bankruptcy proceedings. Obviously, first on the list is getting the company out of bankruptcy. So fire sales trying to get as much revenue in. And the first part people to be paid are often like the initial creditors of the bankruptcy, right? So those who are pulling them out of bankruptcy. And then, you know, pe the companies that infuse capital into them during this kind of merger. So um companies that may have had a partnership with them and they are large e-commerce companies selling their luxury goods and um are currently selling them for$500 million and are located in Seattle. Yes, Chelsea Dem. Indeed. So last, last, last on the line um um in the line of people to be paid w will more than likely be the small vendors that need this cash the most that rely on this inventory and this uh revenue to keep their business going from month to month. So what does this all mean? It reflects a broader shift where power is moving away from the retailer and back to brands, especially as direct-to-consumer becomes more dominant. So we're seeing a lot of friction in kind of the middle market. So think Sachs, Neiman's, think LVMH, think caring. And um at this biggest, at this point, I really think that the biggest kind of blocker to Sachs's future is the fact that in this bankruptcy, even if they come out, even if they're able to pay these um creditors, um, close down a lot of stores. I see um it becoming a real problem because a lot of the people that are getting burned right now are not gonna want to do business with Sachs and Neiman's. And that was really kind of why they weren't able to pay that hundred million dollars at the end of 2025, is because a lot of people were already getting burned prior to the merger. So a lot of these um vendors feel like, hey, you have$2.65 billion to merge with Neiman's, but I got my payment late.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Right. So they're not shipping as much inventory, it became a vicious cycle. They merged with Neiman's in a Hail Mary, and it didn't pan out, and now they're in bankruptcy being sued by creditors, and so I actually don't really see a path forward from the lens of the inventory that they actually need in their stores and these vendors that are currently getting burned.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Yeah. Well, I mean, the path forward is Richard Baker's playbook of strapping, of stripping these companies for parts and selling them as real estate, as he did with Lord and Taylor and Hudson's Bay. Like, how do you give someone who has taken two companies and bankrupted both of them now a third company, which is also bankrupt? And I'm just, and this is just it's absurd to me how like this world of capitalism we live in, how like these PE firms are just able to like go and buy up things, ship them for parts, mess up people's livelihoods, and like Chanel is fine. Like Chanel, it owes Chanel, I think, the most of all of them. And Chanel will be fine if they don't get paid. Like Chanel, whatever. But like smaller brands, like for them, not being able to get these payments from SACs is like a huge deal for them. Yeah, and they want to be in SACS like fought to get in some. Yeah, I was gonna say, like, as you all know, like as previous buyers, like with luxury department stores, we nickel and dime these vendors already, right? Like, we're asking for discounts, we're asking for markdown um support. Yeah, markdown allowances, we're asking for RTV support. So if it doesn't sell, we'll send it back to you.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Any little thing that goes wrong, we'll charge them back.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

But you want to be here, and we know that. And that's why, and and to your point about like, I think you're saying like the power shifting away from the retailers. I don't think that's true, except for if you're a big brand. And I think that's been the case for bigger brands for a while, because a lot of the bigger brands have taken themselves out of the wholesale system because they want to control the distribution, especially the like the more luxury players in the market. But like a smaller company, they can't afford to just rely solely on D to C. Like they won't be able to scale in that way. Especially because, like, look at all these D2C millennial brands that were so popular and they were unicorns and they were amazing. Now they're all struggling, like you know, like Glossier and like all of those people. Like, so I think it's the biggest victim of this is the smaller brands, and they're gonna continue to be the victims.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Um Business of Faction just did an article or uh just uh uh released an article called Um The Industry That Eats Their Young. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is basically which is basically talking about how the the people at the at the very bottom of the totem pole are these like very interesting emerging brands and um and designers who like really um rely on the retail ecosystem um and the retail distribution, and they are the ones like completely being um being uh out of luck in terms of this, uh, in terms of this uh bankruptcy. But I also think in general, I think there was so much hubris or whatever it was that made them, you know, buy Neiman Marcus and Bergdorf. It's like what what was the reason? I mean, they would they did everything so fast in the last couple of years. I mean, like you knew you had this uh looming debt, you know, uh uh We called it, remember? We absolutely called it just like do you have enough money for this? No, no, no, no, no, you know you don't have enough money and then and then there was this like big um uh partnership with the online retailer. Um they were just doing so much at once, and they were very, and what it was interesting, I think Forbes uh noted this, they were focusing very much on e-commerce with the partnership, with Sax.com and all of those things, and they were they were very much neglecting their stores, and I don't know if they were neglecting them, excuse me, I don't know if they were um uh you know purposefully neglecting them just because they knew that that was kind of their lifeline to be able to sell off that real estate, but it was just a very different experience shopping online and going into the stores. And when and when Nordstrom m moved into New York, I mean there was a complete like shift. I remember that when we were um uh when I was at Bloomingdale's, and everyone kind of knew that they were known for customer service and all of those things. So when a new player moves in, is known for customer service in their stores, and then you kind of neglect um your stores, the customer service, you focus online and everything you you're going a mile a minute. You can just tell that so many things are falling through the cracks from a lot of the general business decisions, like the financing aside, the business decisions um at the top were just they were a mile a minute and just wrong.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah, I'm gonna move on, but I did want to touch back to that business of fashion article. Um the advice that the CEO of Business of Fashion Imron gave to emerging designers was to ask for 30% up front from retailers. And I just thought that was so ridiculous. It's just out of touch. It's so out of touch. Like even with like huge companies when you're working with like retailers, like Saks wouldn't give Chanel 30% up front, let alone a small, no-name new retailer that they don't know that they're gonna sell any units of. Like, I thought that that was so out of touch. And I just like if you were that out of touch, it's like how much support could you be like realistically giving? Like, I hope that that article actually had some or they have some solutions beyond they're like, yeah, just ask for the money.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

If you're ex of a third, no, no, we're gonna go on to the next you're gonna get a call. The company doesn't even pay you until 30 days after you ship the collection.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Net 30 is actually net 32%. It's net 61% net 90, actually, a standard.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

And it's mostly like not just like a check, it's mostly like credit towards the next order or something like that. Always pass down. Yeah. So you hardly ever get like actual.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

I mean, usually live in upgrading, especially if you're a smaller version. And let's not even talk about the open to buy model where you just send everything and you just may or may not get like Yeah. Um, okay, well Yeah, we'll digress. Yeah, I digress. Um, so on to our next recent um development in fashion business. It's the we're calling it the state of resale. So, resale to us, in our opinion, is no longer just a trend, it's a viable part of the fashion ecosystem. Recently, eBay has doubled down on its resale processing. About$19.5 billion in quarterly GMV is currently attributed to its resale business, with roughly 40%. Coming from pre-loved goods and strengthening its position. It currently has acquired Depop to capture Gen Z consumers. At the same time, the re the at the same time, the real real just surpassed$2.13 billion in GMV in 2025, growing 16% year over year while improving profitability. It's amazing in the retail business. Growth across both platforms is being driven by increased supply, people monetizing closets, and strong demand for authenticated or more affordable luxury fashion. Resale, we think, is no longer an alternative. It's becoming the first entry point into fashion, especially for younger consumers. So, what does this all mean? This reflects the both the economic pressure and a broader shift toward circular consumption where products are expected to retain and recapture value. So at this point, it's my opinion that brands aren't just competing with each other, they're competing with them past their past sales. And we're seeing that through this new kind of landscape of resale. And why I think that like a lot of people are like, I can just buy it for cheaper and then older and it'll be better, right? I think that's really a driving factor. There's so many driving factors around resale.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Yeah, sustainability.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Sustainability. Um, but I think these numbers speak for ourselves, and I do foresee that it continuing to um grow for the foreseeable future, at least.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

For a variety of reasons.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Yeah. Well, and one point I did want to call out about is like us talking more about like brands taking the power back. So a lot of bigger brands now have developed their own secondhand type of market or website or something where they're trying to like do it in-house because they want to control the distribution.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

I'm sorry to laugh at you, but I heard, but doesn't um Zara have a resale? A nasty word. Do what you want, girl.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Go ahead and detect, girl, if they pay for it.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Wait, and I okay, so a couple things about this as well. I don't think that there is going to be a shift in this for the foreseeable future. Sustainability. Yeah, like quality is only gonna get bigger. People are able to essentially like I use it to like fuel my shopping addiction. Yeah. Like it's like one in, one out, right? Like people, it's higher quality. It's also like a kind of a rebellion almost against like putting pockets on these in these huge conglomerates. But Zara, but Zara?

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Father Zara, why would you do this? Now coach, I understand.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Coach very much understand.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

I was and I think at one point Kieran did do a partnership with was it Bestiere?

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Like I think it was, I think it was maybe um uh what's that brand? Rent the Runway, but not I think someone did a print uh a partnership with Rent the Runway, which is Revolve is on Bestiaire.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Oh, I believe.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Like Revolve as in like their personal brand, Revolve, like their brand name Revolve.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

I bought something from Revolve on Bestiaire. I was there.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

It was probably a collaboration that they did like a small uh run of.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah, I think I I don't know about that part. I I don't know how I feel about Revolve and the but that's a little different.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Yeah, I mean I honestly don't go on any uh the Real Real or eBay or or any of those.

SPEAKER_02 25:57

I just looked it, I just looked it up to control. Like, sorry, I didn't mean control, but I had looked it up because I thought so. But Kieran actually has a 5% stake in Bessier.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

So like Investier, okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Yeah, so they are like trying to control like some of the district and get a hand in that second hand.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

So I buy the real real all the time, but I only go for things that I know were expensive that I am getting for a certain amount a certain price. I would never go on there and and get something that I know is like$100 or$200.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

I'm not gonna hold you. I just buy Zara on the Oh Poshmark is one thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

I go on Poshmark if something um sells out. But I don't go on there looking for just I just scroll just to browse.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

I'm an NWT girl. New It tags.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Um I do a new it tag. If I like it depends on how much I love it because there are especially a lot of bags on there. I have my eye on a few bags that I would like to do.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

I don't need prestige, I don't need excellent, I need I need very good.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

Yes, always good very good. Very good in pristine. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Um, okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

But exciting for eBay though. I mean, to your point, they have really been making a play at trying to be like, I feel like, play in the real world type of market. Like even with their partnership with La Roche. Like he was highlighting some items that he had worn at the Met Gala, I believe.

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Um, okay, and so on to our last topic for today. Um, so in line with what we've been discussing, you know, for the last year, um the K-shaped economy struck again. So most recently, um, Kering and LVMH released their recent earnings, and surprise, surprise, they were down. So LVMH um and caring are both reporting slower goal growth, signaling a real shift in the luxury market. LVMH reported$80.8 billion in 2025 revenue, down roughly 5% year over year, with softness becoming more visible in the second half of 2024 and continuing into 2025. Caring has been under pressure for much longer. Yeah. And decline starting as early as late 2023, worsening through 2024, and continuing into 2025 earnings. A major driver was Gucci, obviously. Um, which is seeing double-digit sales declines in multiple quarters throughout 2024 and into 2025, significant significantly impacting Karen's overall performance across both groups. A larger portion of um of prior growth came from aspirational customers, not just ultra high net worth clients. So overall, um, a couple takeaways. This isn't just a COVID issue, it's not a COVID soft issue. What we're seeing from these um brands that are not kind of like um synonymous with the ultra ultra wealthy, like a Laura Piano or uh Hermes, right? Right. So like think Louis Vuitton, Gucci, something that maybe an upper middle class person would have bought in the past. Um we're seeing um slower sales from them, and this was true all throughout 2024, 2025, and also probably will be constant in 2026 given the current looming um recession, maybe and other uh macroeconomic factors. Um, one last point I wanted to uh make before I um open it up to you all to see what you thought about this was um a macroeconomic tie specifically to East Asia. At one point, um LVMH specifically um viewed China as the kind of source of their future growth. Yeah. But a lot of brands, but there has been a shift, especially since COVID. So pr prior to COVID, a lot of Asian customers would travel outside of China to buy their goods in um in Europe. But since China, a lot of luxury brands are actually rising that are Chinese um national brands, or um what Chinese consumers are seeing what they're seeing in China is there's softness in brands like LVM in the L VMH brands and the caring brands because they're not marketing specifically in Chinese, or they're not doing they were marketing to more aspirate uh aspirational. So what they're having to do to kind of shift there is also a K-shaped economy approach is market to the ultra ultra wealthy. So it's a very different shift over there, and similarly to the US, right? So whereas like let's say like a a banker or a fashion girl, she would have bought a L VMH purse a few times a year or twice a year. That's why we're no longer seeing that.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

I mean, I think we've seen the same kind of thing with with other retailers, um, Essence, for example, that they their whole base was around emerging designers, emerging brands, younger consumers. And so when those purse strings tighten and you don't have the high net worth um uh customers going to you first for things, that's because high net worth people are always going to be rich in a in a in a more of a um bear markets, like they're always going to want their fashion fixed. So, like that's why it's important to keep those customers close, to always have your client book of you know, your clientelling on par. And so when your entire uh kind of strategy, especially for the Gucci's and for the LVs, and then similarly for Essence, where your entire strategy or a lot of it is built on aspirational um kind of uh, you know, consumers, goods, and all of those things, that's when you're really going to see um kind of that that downtrend.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

I also think, too, is just like what we just talked about. It's like, why am I paying? And these prices have gone up so much since. But Hermes has gone up. Hermes is up, but Hermes is like an investment.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Yeah, no, and but Hermes also they're facing some issues now where they're it's looking like their growth might be like slowing because the Birkenbag is like so ubiquitous. But yeah, like an Hermes and a Brunello Cucine, like I think they will always be fine because they have that, and they again our brands. I think we've talked about a lot that they are because they have a consistent aesthetic. Like nothing crazy is gonna happen from season to season, whereas you see a lot of that volatility with some of these other brands that are more so aspirational. Or trend focused, trend focused, trend focused, yeah. Let's go to the next topic because I don't know what we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Okay, so now we're on to a segment called Give the Kids Their Flowers, where we pay tribute to um people in the industry that we feel are really worthy and deserving of uh recognition. So, first I wanted to start off with Carlos Nazario. So, born and raised in Queens, New York, Carlos built his career at the intersection of culture, luxury, and identity. Early on, he interned at W Magazine and then trained with some of the industry's most respected names, like Mark Jacobs and Joe McKenna on major uh campaigns for brands like Calvin Klein. His work collaborating with emerging creatives and building a distinct point of view rooted in both high fashion and underground culture. Today, Carlos serves as style director at large at Harper's Bazaar, contributing editor at Vogue, and global fashion director at ID, while also shaping the vision of streetwear brand Hood by Air. His work has helped redefine modern fashion storytelling, bringing a perspective that is both culturally grounded and forward-thinking and influencing how new generations see style. So, my question to you is what is your favorite Carlos Nazario shoot or look?

SPEAKER_03 33:53

Um I will go first.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

I think it's not my favorite because I don't think I can choose a favorite, but I just reposted um uh how he styled Doja. I was this the one I think that was top of mind because I was like, ooh, I love it. In that suit, and I just feel like she always pushes herself, but I think he really um captured the moment of menswear and um and of tailoring and just her the way that she shows up um in uh in uh that shoot. I just feel like it was just so uh so relevant and um just a special one that I thought was very recent and timely.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

You next, Chris. Well I waited.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

I I don't know, because that was the one I was gonna do. I also was well, he's done like a lot of covers that I really loved that I he styled the Willie Shavaria show, um, which I thought was really exciting, and I'm really like loving a lot of the things that Willie is putting out. Um and I feel like oftentimes stylists, especially for a runway show, don't get enough credit for like helping to put together a cohesive look and really like helping the designer showcase his brand message and brand identity to the consumer. So that also is top of mind because that was recent, so I think that probably will be that will be my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

I wish I had written it down. It's it's this he did a recent one with Rihanna for Harper's Bazaar.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Oh yes, I remember that. Okay, yeah. That's actually a cover we talked about when we were lit when we were, it was on like covers and couture segment. Yeah, it's the Yes, it's this. It's the March 2025 issue.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Yes, March 2025. So yes. Yeah, sorry, sorry. Oh, yeah, it was very, it was very pulled back.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

It was very um, it was very wrong. I remember you talked about it because it was like, oh, it was a little booty cheek.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

It was like I loved it because it were for the booty cheek. There's something about like not like being sexy and that we have to do too much, because like I just hate like a BBO fashion with a booty cheek, but there's something was really like about it that I just loved. And I wasn't aware of all of his work until I researched him for this.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

He is amazing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

So okay, moving on, we want to pay tribute to Ruth Carter. Costume designer and visual storyteller Ruth E. Carter is one of the most influential film uh figures in film. Known for translating culture, history, and identity through costume. Her work shapes how characters are seen and remembered. After emerging in theater and beginning her long-standing collaboration with Spike Lee, her credits span School Days, Do the Right Thing, Mo Bed of Blues, Malcolm X, as well as such other beloved films as Amistad, Love is Basketball, Love and Basketball, and Selma, each grounded in deep cultural research and narrative precision. She won two Academy Awards for costume design for bringing Afro-Futurism to the global stage with Black Panther and Black Panther Wakanda Forever. Most recently, she was nominated for an Academy Award for Sinners, directed by Academy Award winner Ryan Kugler and starring Academy Award winner Michael B. Jordan, continuing her legacy of using costume to deepen the film's cultural and emotional narrative. So, my question to you: What was your favorite Ruthie Carter styled film from all the ones I mentioned? I will happily read them again. Um, school days. Really?

SPEAKER_01 37:29

I love school days. I love it. I love it so much, and it's so like you just had to, you just gotta be there to know how to style it too. It just feels like a warm blanket for me.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

It feels like so authentic, I feel like. And it was the 80s, and like it was like a musical too. So it was in and out of like the 80s, but then also like this this kind of other world of avant garde and all of the through all of the musical numbers. So I definitely agree. Stool Days is one of my favorites. I will say coming to America has to be um uh one of my favorites. I think that coming to America one of your favorites, Chris.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

She's such a prolific costume designer. I will say there are so many films that I wasn't aware that she styled, so I think that's amazing. My favorite is, I mean, once again, using something that's top of mind is centers. Like I really love that. I also love that visually for several reasons. Okay, so now it's time for my favorite gamified segment, which is Sew, Show or Go, where I give you guys three designers and you tell me who should sew, as in they should sew more clothes, who should show, as in whose runway presentation you want to attend, and who should go as in who should be dismissed. They are the weakest link. So let's get into it and go into the eras of bottega. So, Daniel Lee, Matthew Blazey, and Louise Trotter. And these, this is designers as a whole, not their tenure at Bottega, but the theme is all of these designers have worked at Bottega.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Daniel Lee, Louise Trotter, and Matthew Blazy.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

I will go first. Go ahead. I will sew the read Louise Trotter. I will go Matthew Blaise.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

And I will wait, no. No, I will show Matthew Blaise and I will go Daniel Lee. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

Okay. Um, I get it, but I think I'll have to sew Daniel Lee. I just feel like for me, he I love his Burberry. Yeah, I think he was just, he would, he, he really just uh is revolutionary. I think the way he took Bottega under his like on his back and re recreated that brand, I think cannot be re uh recreated. So Daniel Lee will show. I mean, so okay. Um Matthew Blaise will show. I just thought that that Chanel show that he did um in the subway was so iconic. Um, and I think we'll be talking about that for years. And I think who would go would be Louise Trotter.

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Okay. Well, so for me, Matthew Blaziky would also show. I would love to go to a Chanel show. And as much as I love Daniel Lee, Louise Trotter, y'all know I am obsessed with her and what she's doing at Bottega. And I live for my girl, so I want her to sew.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

I live for her at Bottega's.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

And then Daniel Lee unfortunately would have to go. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:13

His coats at Bur Burberry were amazing, but I'm and he was great at Bottega, but I just don't have the same visceral reaction to his designs as I do to Louise Trotter's.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yeah. Well, thank you guys so much for tuning in. Be sure to watch us wherever you consume your podcast. Until then, take care, kids.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Bye.