Saucy Scribes React, Recap, & Debrief: Sarah J Mass on Call Her Daddy

SPOILER WARNING:  Maas-verse spoilers ahead, Scribes. Consider this your official heads-up.

In this special episode of Saucy Scribes, we react to the highly anticipated Sarah J. Maas interview on Call Her Daddy.

 We discuss the biggest announcements, our favorite moments from the conversation, and what it could mean for upcoming books in the Maas-verse.

We’re also sharing highlights from our weekend at Los Angeles Romantasy BookCon, where we celebrated all things romantasy with fellow fans, authors, and creators.

Grab a drink and settle in for reactions, discussion, and plenty of literary tea.

Watch the full video deep dive on YouTube @SaucyScribesPod
Find our themed cocktails on Instagram & TikTok @saucyscribesPod
Then descend deeper into the shadows with us on Patreon: patreon.com/SaucyScribesPodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to the Saucy Scribes Podcast. I'm Alex, your resident book psycho. I'm Allie, your aspiring author.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

And I'm Joe, the book bestie.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Hello, Scribes. Today's episode is a little different because instead of talking dragons, mates, and morally gray men, we're discussing the woman behind the chaos.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

For years, Sarah J. Mass has largely let her books do the talking, dropping devastating plot twists, badass complex FMCs, and emotional damage across worlds like A Court of Thorns and Roses, Thorns of Glass, and Crescent City, then quietly disappearing back into the writing cave.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

But recently she emerged. She sat down with Alex Cooper on Call Her Daddy Podcast and gave the internet something we rarely get from her. Unfiltered author lore. And naturally, the book world has absolutely spiraled.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

So today we're unpacking the interview, the revelations, the moments that made the fandom scream, and of course, the things that had us pausing the episode like, did she just confirm that?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

So pour yourself something strong, scribes. Perhaps a spicy margarita. Looking at you, Miss Mass.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

And because today's episode is part analysis, part fangirl spiral, and part literary tea, consider this your official warning. There will be spoilers for the Mass Verse ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

But if you're ready to get into it, the mother has spoken and there's a lot to unpack.

SPEAKER_02 1:33

Yep. I mean, we just went to romanticy book con, all three of us. And so we've really been in our romance-disease zone as of late. And then we get confirmation that she's gonna be on Call Her Daddy. And then it comes out so fast after the confirmation.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, it was so close that I honestly was like, is this real? Is this just a teaser? Is this like actually gonna happen?

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Yeah. I remember talking about it with my husband, and he was like, How do you know it's really gonna be her on the podcast if there's just rumors? And I was like, Well, Alex posted a video standing in front of a bookshelf with all of her books behind her. So I'm pretty I that pretty much is a confirmation for me.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Like, look, we are slews. Do you think we wouldn't catch that? Come on, seriously. Facts.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah, I was genuinely so excited, especially once the teaser started coming out that Alex was doing the fast runoff and everything. I was like, oh my god, it's actually happening. I'm so excited. I'm gonna set an alarm.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Like, so I'm gonna go ahead and take a second and make this all about me because it is my birth month. And so I initially was like, this is a birthday present for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

She knows. I mean, yes, that was my first thought when she said it was October 27th for the next book. I was like, happy birthday to me.

SPEAKER_03 2:48

Right. And then I find out that her birthday is a few days before mine. So yeah, it was day, right? Yeah, we're twins. Oh my gosh. We're twins.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Well, Pisces twinies. What so why do we think that she chose call her daddy as the podcast to do this release? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

I think I think she was like, Who is a woman who will get me, get my books, who won't ask me stupid asinine questions?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah. I think also probably her friend group had something to do with it. To where they were like, no, she is so cool. She had to do her great podcast. Right. It's like this is who you need to do. Right.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

She's I mean it also sounds like based on like some of the first parts of the interview when she talked about her process with the TV show, that she's had some negative experience with people in the entertainment world who like don't get her stories. So I do think she really thought long and hard about who she wanted to interview her and who was gonna be the right person.

SPEAKER_03 3:52

For sure. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

So if you guys could interview Miss Sarah J. Mass yourself, what is the first question that you would ask her? Oh god, I don't even know. That's like so much pressure.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Um Okay, I've got a good one.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

So, what is one thing about the Mass Verse that fans haven't noticed yet, but absolutely should. I don't think she would answer that. She wouldn't answer it though, but I would have to.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

She probably wouldn't, but we'd want to know.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah. No, I don't think she'd answer that for sure. Definitely not. Because she's not, she's like, find your own Easter egg, right? But also, I feel like everybody does enough guessing and start deep dive.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

Honestly, some of the theories that have been out there on the interwebs have been insane to me. Like, where did you come up with that theory? Is what I think, right? Oh, yeah. And and I completely agree. And so I thought when I was watching the interview, I was like, okay, so we're on the right track because a lot of the stuff that she was mentioning, like we had already discussed or thought about. So I was like, okay, okay, we're not crazy.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

No, I felt very validated in a lot of aspects.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

I also felt validated because I do feel like she she spoke to a lot of my suspicions about where the next Avatar books were gonna go. And I felt very like, ooh, I feel like I could be right.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Gold Star. Gold studies.

SPEAKER_04 5:19

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I mean, let's talk about obviously the main point of this, the whole big announcement. The new Avatar books. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

October 27th, like I said, happy birthday to me. And then another volume following in January. Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

Yeah. I mean, we all kind of suspected that she was going to be announcing Avatar 6, right? We would put money on that, okay? Yes. But the fact that she was like, oh no, you're getting another book. And it's so big that it's basically like two extra parts, but in January, only a couple months later. We don't even have to wait a whole year or half a year. I know. I wanted to cry out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

You also kind of feel like part three will come out like in April or something. Like, I don't think we're gonna have to wait long for part three either.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

I agree because she had even said, People have waited long enough. She's like, I don't want people to wait a super long time. And she gave that little hint that she's like, I'm on a deadline right now. So I'm like, Yeah, you are three. Yeah, you are. So, in case anybody missed it, the next releases are one massive narrative arc told in four parts, spread across multiple volumes because it was too long for one single book.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

I think she made a comment about glue not actually being able to hold the book together.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Uh, we're getting a Bible.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

And I'm here for it. I'm here for it. I feel like this was like the literary Taylor Swift like massive flex of like, I'm gonna give a three-hour concert and everyone's gonna listen. I'm gonna write a four-part book and everyone's gonna read it.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

And we are. We're gonna read it. The way that I felt so satiated after this, I was just like, oh, it's so good. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

So good. And all of her hints that she dropped about kind of where she was going with the story, I feel like we obviously have to dive into that. For me, I felt like she was totally telling us we were gonna get an Azrael Elaine story. That's where I felt like after listening. I don't know how you guys felt.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

I did, I did, honestly, because when the mates thing came up and they talked about Elaine and Lucian and like, is she going to announce her mateship? Um, you know, is that gonna happen? And she talked a lot about it also being choice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Yes. Her her making her own story. No, I've always suspected that. Like when she started going that way in the last books, to me, I was like, oh, I bet she's totally gonna explore the freedom of choice and what happens when your mate isn't the person you love. Because I think we all kind of forget as readers that like Fayra and Reese and Cassie and Anesta are true mates, not just mates, which is a different thing. And she even says in the series multiple times, like Reese's parents were mates but didn't get along, so were Tamlin's parents. Like there are multiple examples where that was like actually not a good relationship, which means those people could have been finding their actual loves and it wasn't those people. And I feel like she's definitely gonna explore that here. Sorry for the people who want Azrael and um Gwyn to end up together. Or Azrael and Bryce, which was like the craziest theory of all time. I'm so glad she shot that down because as we've talked about on this podcast, it's just like crazy theory.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

That's insane, yeah. I don't even know where that came from.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

No, I mean I get I get where it came from because I mean I'm doing my CC3 reread right now. It's like the star sword brought her to Azrael, and people are like, they're mates, they're mates.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

And I'm like, that really doesn't it's like a knife, like a dagger and a sword. Like, calm down.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Well, it's just it goes back to that thing too of people not believing her and Hunt are mates, but I'm so glad Sarah was like, um, no, Bryce and Hunt are endgame. Stop it.

unknown 9:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

100%.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

And also to me, like, I am a person who I kind of did like the whole idea of Tamlin and Elaine ending up together. I thought was an interesting twist of like maybe he gets a redemption arc, and it would make sense that she ends up in the spring court. But after obviously listening to the interview and Sarah being like, oh no, Tamlin's a shit hit. I'm not giving him a redemption arc. It was like, oh, okay, so that theory is kind of off the table. So that means, yeah, I think Elaine and Asriel are the end game here.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

But also, that would be so awkward if she ends up with Tamlin and like Tamlin and Lucian are like besties.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

And oh hello, Tamlin used to fuck her sister. Yeah. Like, I thought that's where you were going with that. I definitely thought that's where you were going with that. I wiped the slate. There's that. Also, you know, on that note of like, I think this is gonna be an Azriel Lane story, I think it's gonna be more than that. I think it's gonna be more like Thrones of Glass where it's multiple stories going on at once. Because she did say something about like she couldn't tell us the POV of the book, which to me was like red flag of I think it's gonna be a crazy amount of POVs, and I think we're gonna get a Lucian story too. I hope so. Yeah, I think we're gonna get a happy ending for both of them, just away from each other. Like Lucian's gonna find his true love and she's gonna find her true love. And it's gonna be like mates who ended up not choosing each other, but both finding their true loves. That's what I kind of see happening.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

I hope that that happens for Lucian, because honestly, for he's been he's been enough. And and you know, they have him basically stationed somewhere else. So maybe he'll meet someone over there.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Maybe he already has. Maybe he already has. Maybe he's our threpple.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Maybe he's our thruple, guys.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Girl, no, you have no idea my unhinged desire for that.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Like, um, she has written, I don't know if you guys know this, but there was an Azrael, Cassian, and Nesta threesome in the original Silver Flames. So she has written scenes like that, and I feel like this is her, this was her chance of being like, I'm gonna do a thruple and give you those scenes. I feel like it's coming. I feel it.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Azrael is freaky, he's quiet and freaky.

SPEAKER_02 11:11

She has said that Azrael is like the kinkiest of them all. And I cannot wait to see it. Cannot wait. Same. I also think, and I was talking about this with someone at RomanacyCon. I find it interesting that Nesta's book was only one book when we got Fayra's point of view for three books. So I could also see still getting a Nesta arc in this story as well, which is why I think she could have been like, This is not the way I thought this was gonna come out. I think it's gonna be like all of these POVs and all these things. Because that's how Thrones of Glass really was. It was all these things happening at once, all these love stories tingled together. It wasn't so like there's one story.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

Yeah, yeah, there was a lot going on.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah, so is Crescent City.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Yeah, true. Definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Some of those stories I think we could have dropped, like Ethan, but you know, here we are.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

We'll talk about that next episode. K. Hall's story, K. Hall's story could have been a little shorter.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Well, I actually really loved his story. Liked it, but it could have trimmed. Also, vindication that she said we could pronounce names however we want. I don't have to call her.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

When she said that, I thought she did call her Manon. Why not?

SPEAKER_02 12:23

But she gave me permission to call her Manon, and I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

She did. She did. She did. Yeah. I heard her.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

I loved her.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

I felt I felt you in the distance being like, ha ha.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Yeah. Yeah. Made me so happy.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

I mean, I feel like this is kind of obvious, but do we feel like the fandom's expectation had made writing the next Avatar harder on her for her? Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

I want to say yes, but at the same time, she seems like the kind of person that is like, this is for me. Like, I write for me.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

She does, but she also has anxiety. She talked a lot about how she's in therapy. And I feel like obviously anxious people care deeply about what people think of them or like how things are going. I think it's perception. She's constant conversation with herself. Yeah, of like being like, nope, don't give any fucks. Don't give any fucks.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

She's a Pisces. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yeah. And she did mention how she needed to be in the right emotional headspace to write the story, which I think is so valid because when you have these characters pouring out of you, you need to be able to have enough personal availability in order to let those stories come through properly without it overtaking you. And I feel like that's probably a really delicate balance and not colluding your personal life with your book life as much.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

So talking about like how writing can be such an emotional process and you need to be in the right headspace. I mean, she talked a lot about the Fayra pregnancy storyline. And I'm so glad she was willing to talk about that and cleared that up for fans because it is something that people struggle with in Silver Frame Flames a lot. It's like their one criticism of the book. Yeah. Of like, I can't believe Rassanne did that to her. I can't believe that she wrote in this plot line. And now hearing about it from her, really hearing where that came from and how personal that was, and how she was mimicking something that she felt was just it really night and day makes that whole plot line so different for readers. Yeah, and also fuck that doctor. Seriously, fuck that doctor.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

I mean, just the fact that her new OB had to like walk out of the room when she saw her scars really tells you everything about what happened to her. And now it really makes sense that storyline of Fera not knowing what was happening to her body and what was going on and that she almost died, all of those things. And obviously, in that world, Reese was the one not telling her, but it's like, you know, they didn't really have doctors in the same way that we do. So I kind of see where she went with that. And I love too that she was like, I mean, Reese makes mistakes, he's not perfect. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah, I really like that as well. And he was coming from a place of sincerity and wholesomeness, it wasn't manipulation.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Right. He didn't want to scare her. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:02

And for the people who were also like, I can't believe Farah already wanted to have a kid. They've been together for five minutes. It's like, okay, or she was happy, and it's like, when you're really that happy with the person you love, why wouldn't you want to start that journey with them if you want kids?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Yeah. She also started breadcoming that like two books prior. So like it the plot was building in that sense.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

We're in a f we're on a fairy timeline, okay? We are. Like it could have taken them a hundred years to get pregnant completely.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Also in A Court of Silver Flames, she touches on Nesta's mental health journey. And that also mirrors hers, too. So I really feel like A Court of Silver Flames is probably a very therapeutic book in a way for her. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

It seems like a lot of her emotional struggles really center around that book. And it's one of my favorite books. Like I know people, some people really hate Nesta, but Silver Flames is like my favorite book.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

I loved that book.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

I love that. I mean, I know that at the very beginning of the book, I would had texted you, Alex, and I was just like, I don't, I still don't get the Nesta thing. But by the end of the book, I was like, this is my favorite of all of these. I love it. I want to reread it. This is so good. And it is such a beautiful art.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

Yeah. I think for some people, it's like that book is just pure character development. And I think the people who are really reading it just for like fantasy, that's maybe the people who find that book a little like, this isn't my favorite. Because when you think about it, the plot line of that is kind of like almost like whatever. It's more about Nesta's arc than anything else.

SPEAKER_03 16:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

That's like the meat of the book.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

But I feel like that's so important though.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

It is, but that's not for everyone. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Like, I think those people are the same people that don't like Iron Flame.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yes. I think those are the same people who don't like Iron Flame.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Because I mean it it's a building book. It's the scaffold. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

You know, people have to understand any good writing, like you have to have meat, you have to have substance, you have to build things, right? We're not just gonna be able to jump there with you without having first a foundation that's built. So, like you know, Nesta, we really needed her to be redeemed. We were angry with her. And I thought that she did it beautifully. She really helped us see Nesta as a person, what she was struggling with, her redeeming qualities, you know, how how she she could be saved through her her struggles. Yes, her own hard work, her own struggles, the demons that she battled every day and overcame eventually, and how she didn't give up. Yeah, and that it wasn't easy. She didn't, it didn't just, you know, and then I found my mate. Yeah. That's not what happened.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

I actually like that she finds her mate as she's doing it. Yeah. And she almost ruins it. Like it's kind of like a really great mirror. It's really part.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

Yeah. I do also really like the fact that Sarah J. Mass, she does not do the easy relationship writing. What if if that's even a trope, like she does not do that? No, it's definitely a trope.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Is it? I mean, it's not, but it's definitely. I've read a lot of romanticy books where it's like once they find out they're mates, the man is perfect. There's no problems, he does everything right, their relationship's perfect, even though they've known each other for five minutes. It's like so unrealistic.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Completely. I mean, and you look at Ailen, it's the same thing. She it's messy, it's hard, it's struggles, it's beauty, but it's pain. And it's the same thing for Farah, it's the same thing for Bryce.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

Well I loved with the when she talked about Ailen and about uh Thrones of Glass, how Ailen had had so many boyfriends, like she had so many relationships. And I remember when I was first reading it, I was telling Alex, like, dang, girl, she get she's getting around, she's just hopping around. It's also really and she talks about that, like, well, you know, I want her to have experiences, or I wanted her to to, you know, live life the way people live. And I love that. And I thought it was kind of interesting because she herself says that her husband was her high school sweetheart, and he's the only person she's been with.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

But I like that she gave everyone else that opportunity.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Which I do love. And I think this was like the badass foresight she had of just like, I'm gonna do whatever the hell I want to do, is like most series nowadays, they want a hookie with the FMC right away. Like, right? You're you're writing to hear about the tall, dark stranger. And so I don't think a lot of authors are having that foresight to think three steps ahead to be like, well, you might think this is a guy, but it's not really the guy. And I'm gonna have this like girl like dating around.

SPEAKER_04 19:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

It's actually Thrones of Glass, I think, is the only series I've read where she's had serious multiple relationships that aren't like a trick. They're not a trick. Yes, they're just like her. There's no treachery above. Yes. There's no like twist where it's like, oh, okay, he's actually the villain or something. Yeah, no. Or she. Or she, yes, it's literally just like her figuring out who she is and who she wants to be with and who her partner could be. And I think Thrones of Glass is really unique in that way. And I think it's because Sarah, when she wrote down, sat down to write it, was just like, I know this is gonna be like seven books long. I don't care if it ever gets published. Like, this is my journey. I'm gonna do whatever I want. Whereas like most authors nowadays, even if they have been published, it's like, you know, their publisher is telling them, you need to release a book. On this date, it needs to be three books long because that's how many books you're contracted for, and like things like that, that just like take that magic away.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Completely agreed.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Well, speaking of the magic that creates the writing process, I loved how she was talking about the music that inspires her scenes. I absolutely loved that she was listening to Florence the Machine, which love. But the funniest one to me, and is so relatable because it is constantly on in my house as well, is the K-pop Demon Hunters.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

100%. I laughed when I heard her say that. I was like, oh yeah, welcome to my house too. But also, I also feel like I am her where I play it more often than my son does. Yes. Yes. And he's kind of like, Mom, can we listen to Pirates of the Caribbean? And I'm like, no. K-pop Demon Hunters is so much more fun.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

Guys, I don't have kids and I listen to it all the time.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Because it slaps, it's a great album. It's so good. Also, I am very curious about what song on the Batman soundtrack specifically she was into. Because she said she was listening into one on loop on Robert Pattinson's Batman, which is so random. So random. I agree. She had also brought up the Reese in Ferret Starfall. And I was like, Alex is splooged.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

She did. She didn't give me any hints about any theories about it, but it just made me happy that she like talked about it.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Completely agree. I was very excited. So, should we talk about the smuddy bits now? Let's talk about the smuddy bits. I loved that she addressed the criticism within the community. Community, or perhaps even outside of the community, about how her books are just considered very smud, which I think we can all disagree that that's not the case because it's only like four percent of three of the books.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Yeah, I'm so tired of that narrative, honestly. And you know, even like I took a day off of work to go to romanticy book con. And I was like, I'm going to a book con. And everyone's like, Oh, what kind of book con? But I'm like romantic, and you know, everyone always has an opinion. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. It is fantasy. Calm down. It's fantasy.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

I don't need I actually don't say romancy anymore. I say fantasy because it does have a negative connotation and does make people belittle it by being like, oh, she's into that fairy smut stuff when that's not what it is, at least to me. It's not what it is. And I am also tired of that narrative. And I'm here for Sarah being on the same page. It's interesting when we were at BookCon, it we touched on it a little bit in one of the panels, and LJ Andrews was on that panel. And I kind of regret not standing up and asking this question, but I think it was like the one panel that we went to where they ran out of time for questions at the end. Because I remember last year at Romanticy BookCon, she had kind of said that she was grateful for the romanticy label because she's been writing romanticy for like over 10 years, that her books were always shelved in weird places. Like there was no place for her books. They didn't know whether to put it under fantasy or romance or science fiction. It's like, what is this? And so she was like really happy by that label. And I thought it was kind of weird last year, and now this year felt extra weird. And it's funny because they started talking about it in this panel. And I kind of wanted to see if her opinion has changed over the past year because now it's become quite like a rude term almost like a belittling.

SPEAKER_03 23:52

So interesting.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Yeah. Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

I am curious about that. The one panel, there was no time for questions.

SPEAKER_03 23:59

Just message her because I'm curious. Send her a little private message.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

I do think based off just what their conversation was on the panel, I do think her opinion probably has changed. It's also just like, does a book need to fit in a hole for a shelf? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Like, I mean, it's the boxes conversation, you know? Yeah. You can't keep shoving people and books and things into very specific, like, niche boxes. I just don't think it works.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Last year, the panel, the discussion was what's the difference between fantasy romance and romantic fantasy. And even last year I thought, like, oh, that's kind of an interesting topic. But at the same time, isn't it all the same? Do we have to get that detailed with it? Like, let's just call it all fantasy and move on.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah. No, I actually agree with that assertion. Because whether you're on a different planet or if you're in a cozy little cottage, like it's all, it's all fantasy. It's all fantasy.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

And whether the romance is like super present in the story or it's like more of a background noise, it's like you're still in the fantasy genre. That's what you're writing.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

I think like obviously when you're doing searches, if you're someone who's like, I really want to read a book with XYZ in it, that stuff comes into play of like what you're looking for. But when we're talking about like bookshelves at Barnes and Noble, I don't think we need to be that nuanced here. Like I agree. It just seems ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 25:18

They talked about cozy.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Mm-hmm. Yeah, cozy fantasy. Love this sub-genre, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Me too. It's such a good palette cleanser. It's so relaxed. Right. No wars, no battles, but there's drama. I mean, there is one in the background, but But you don't hear about it.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

No, it doesn't involve you. And for those listening who don't know what cozy fantasy is, yeah. It's like it's happy fantasy where all the characters are just like joyful and there's a lot of baking usually involved and like plants.

SPEAKER_00 25:50

Please check out the spell shop by Sarah Best Durst.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Or Enchanted Greenhouse. If you need a warm hug, read some cozy fantasy. It's all fantasy, okay? It's all fantasy. Doesn't matter if it was written by a man or woman. Let's get with it, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Fit with me. And additionally, we should not be ashamed of the steamy scenes.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

We should not. Oh. And it honestly pisses me off because you know, Game of Thrones especially gets so much like, oh my God, I love that show and like whatever. And to me, I'm like, well, I'm just reading that show. And you you see Game of Thrones as like a work of art, but the book I'm reading that's exactly like Game of Thrones down to like this mutt and the fantasy is getting shit on there is getting shit on. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

I do love that she was so just forward and explicit, and she was like, it pisses me the fuck off. That anytime a woman writes something and there's even a little hint of sex that's not fade to black or artistically mentioned, it suddenly devalues the work. And that's so fucked up.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

Men like sex too.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

They do. And it's also back to that the media thing, too, of like when you see it done in like Oscar-winning films or like HBO shows, it's like, ooh, this is so racy and good, and like it's taking art to a new level because these actors are being so brave and whatever. And it's like, okay, but you put it in a book and all of a sudden it's like means nothing.

SPEAKER_03 27:14

But but but there's a bigger story there. It's more so that women don't have the right to have pleasure.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

Women don't get women don't get to outwardly be like, I like this, I deserve pleasure. You know, it's like a grandfathered stigma from from the way back when times when women were there just to, you know, make babies and please men.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

And it's about who's writing it.

unknown 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

It's also about who's writing it. I mean, we all know there are very few women who have become directors and like big writers in books and film and TV. So it's also that too. It's interesting. I've had this conversation with like two separate people now. One was this guy who remained nameless. Um, we were at dinner one night and we were having a similar discussion. And we were actually talking about, I think, about Game of Thrones and how they really ruined Danny's character. And it was like, God damn it. Like men because it's made for the male gays, not for it's made for the male gays, and men do not know how to write female characters that like are aren't there to please please men. Yeah. And he was like blown away. I had this opinion. He was like, Oh my gosh, like who do you think writes the best female characters then? And I was like, females? Like, how do you have to ask that question? Like, you think a man can write a better female protagonist than a woman can? That is mind-blowing to me. And then I was telling this story to someone else who is a male, and he was like, Oh, really? You think like men can't write women? And I was like, doesn't mean they can't. Do they often write women who are accurate? No. No, no, and they haven't for a very, very long time, so long that you don't even realize that the women who act in these things that you see on TV and in movies, that's not how women actually act. It is how men want women to act, which is completely different.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

These are also the same people that don't understand how like Benedict Cumberbatch is hot or like Adam Driver. They don't understand the female gaze, is the thing.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

I've seen Reese Witherspoon even talk about this exact same thing where she's like, Yeah, I would get offers all these roles where it's like the woman's just going around asking like the men, like, what should we do? And she's like, in real life, never have I once turned to a man and been like, What should I do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

I love Reese. While we're on the topic of movies and television shows. Excellent segue, Allie. The Avatar TV adaptation, you guys.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Which also I feel like perfectly blends into this conversation because based on her comments, and I suspected this. People asked my opinion, like, oh, why do you think they're not making that show? And I'm like, okay, I'm someone who's worked in entertainment for a very long time. Entertainment's a very sexist industry. It's one of the reasons I left. Yep. Um and it's it's such ingrained sexism that even men I worked with who considered themselves very woke and feminist were sexist on set because it's so ingrained into the way films are made.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Even the women can be.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

And even the women can be because they've been trained that way.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

The titles of our department.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Yes. I mean, I could go on with this all day, but I won't. So my feeling has always been that the reason the TV show didn't go forward is when they announced a showrunner, it was like this middle-aged old white guy. And when I saw that, I was like, that's an interesting choice for this series. And then when it it ended up getting dropped at Hulu and didn't move forward, I was like, hmm, I bet Sarah did not get along with him. And I wonder why.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Wonder why.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah, not to say this is what happened, but I've always kind of thought, and based off her comments in this interview, I'm kind of like, I really bet that's what happened. Yeah. I bet here comes a man who's worked in the industry for fucking ever, who's like, we need to do this, this, and this. And he has a studio head who's also a man who's saying, we need to hit these points. And she's like, No, you don't get it. You don't get what the fans are gonna want to see. You don't get the the books or the series, and just no.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Can we all agree that Margo's gonna do it?

SPEAKER_02 31:11

I really hope she's like oh my god, but it also sounds like she's not letting anyone do it right now.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

So yeah, I mean, she said that she needs to find the perfect Reese. And I'm like, does that person exist?

SPEAKER_02 31:24

No, that person definitely does not exist.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

We've tried, which we've tried.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

There's also no perfect Zaidan. So I mean, I guess we'll see what happens. TBD.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

TBD. I know all of the actors that people, you know, put forward as like, oh, it should be this person. I'm like, where? How? How do you see that? Yeah. He's that man isn't even six feet tall, and and my man's is at least six five.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

I will say, I do think if this was 10, 15 years ago, I feel like Orlando Bloom she would cast as resand. Oh, uh yes. She's like, if he dyed his hair dark, I'd be here for it.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

I mean, listen, he is. Orlando Bloom is hot, and I think we can all agree on that. He's always been hot, and he's still hot. So I was a legolus girl.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

I was a legolus girl too. I totally get her fan fit. I was loving all the time. I also love that she still has the cutout. I love that. I was like nerd of my own heart. Nerds of my own heart.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

You know, she she also loves sharks, and I love sharks. And otters. And Sailor Moon. And Sailor Moon! She had a little bit of everything for all of us. Like we were all like me. That's me.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

She's like, I mean, I used to do the same thing. I would run home from school, put my VHS in the recorder, and record Sailor Moon everything.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Sailor Moon forever. Sailor Moon forever. That was our first like real girl-to-girl bonding, too. I feel like Alex. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

I think I bought Allie a Luna backpack one year for her. You did. I actually still have it.

unknown 32:59

Yeah, you do.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

During this same conversation, she did mention that she officially has the rights back to all of her books. I don't know what the right term for that is, but basically all of her rights, which I think is really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 33:14

Taylor Swift style.

SPEAKER_00 33:16

Taylor Swift style. I can't wait to hear more about that. She didn't dive super deep into it. Well, she didn't dive into it at all, except for saying that she does have it now, which does also give me a lot of faith that whenever, if ever this ends up coming into fruition, it's going to be so good because she can be like, I'm sorry, this is mine. And if I don't like it, it doesn't go. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Yeah. And I think this came actually up on a romantic panel to talk about romantic con so much on this. We're talking to tie-in, you guys. Yeah. Um, it did come up about like TV rights and things like that. I think this is actually the one panel I went to without you guys. Um, and how like TV and film with book creators, how that's evolved very, very recently back in the day, they pretty much wouldn't ask authors at all their opinion on adaptations. And I think it's we're gonna see the tide turning because of Jenny Hahn and the Summer I Turn Pretty series really has like changed the game because that series has become so, so, so beloved. And Jenny Hahn basically made that series. Like she was in every room. She directed, I think, a few episodes, like she was fully, fully involved and it was so, so successful. And I think that has really showed the industry that like you need to have the author there to tell you like what line does these fans want to hear? What can't you take out? What are they expecting from this? Yeah. Because the author knows best. They have people coming up to them all the time, being like, I love this moment, I love this part, I love these things. They're the most tied in.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

So tied in. They know the things too that fans would be okay with, like, if you needed to change it to adapt it to TV and film. So I'm I'm really hopeful that in the future there's gonna be more of that, and then Sarah can come in and really be in control of what she's doing. Right. Um, I think they talked about how Jenny had kind of opened the gateway for other writers in a sense when we were at RomancyCon.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

That's really cool. Yeah. I mean, all the more reason for Margot to do it. She's a fan too.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

So Greta Gerwig is another one. She she also is does some meaningful work.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

She does, and I think she's like besties with Margot, so she's definitely read it too. So, and she's also doing another book adaptation. She's doing the Chronicles of Narnia, so I think she would be a great person to. Oh, did you guys not know that?

SPEAKER_03 35:32

I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Oh, it's coming out soon.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

This is like mate, and then like Meryl Streep is is the lion.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

Like, it's like full we need to talk about why you're withholding information from us.

SPEAKER_02 35:46

I know, right. This is all over the internet. I'm withholding nothing. Nothing. Google internet.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

My internet is like full of large.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

My algorithm did not have that.

unknown 35:56

Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Google it. We have such different algorithms. For those who don't know, Greta Gerwig right now is adapting Chronicles of Narnia for Netflix. And it is gonna be huge. I think one of my favorite parts of the interview was when Alex was all of us and was just like rapid fire questions. Here's every meme, every thing I've seen on the internet. I have to ask you all these questions. She went deep too.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

She did it a nail on the head. I was like, you know what, Alex? Like, you do.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

She's a real fan, real fan here. I mean, I absolutely love that one of the questions was what did Lorcan do? Yeah, I was just like, Because that is like one of the best memes of all time. But I also love that Sarah like didn't know what it was and someone had to explain it to her.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

Yes. That was funny.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Which was very funny. For those who don't also know, Lorcan, his relationship in Thrones of Glass is the only fade to black sex scene in all of Sarah J. Mass's universes. Which is why people always say, What did Lorcan do? Funny because Sarah has actually kind of talked about this in previous interviews. She has mentioned before that she feels very weird about showing an intimate moment where a woman loses her virginity. Like she feels like it's like showing too much of an intimate moment to a character. It's not that she doesn't think the reader can handle it. She feels like it's like portraying the character, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

I actually love that. It's probably she's a girls' girl.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

She's a girls' girl, which is why that is the only sex scene that fades to black, because it's all the only character who loses her virginity in any of the series. Um also loses her virginity and you don't see it either. But it's it's less of like an obvious fate to black situation.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

I mean, you know, you know what Lorcan did?

SPEAKER_02 37:43

He handles it when she's gonna be like, 'cause that's Wait, but didn't she also say she was like, maybe there'll be a bonus chapter or something?

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Yeah, she was like, maybe I'll like release it for Christmas or something. And I was like, Yes, please, please.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

So maybe that'll be like the second time. The sec, it's not the first, but it's the second time, and then we'll know what he's capable of.

SPEAKER_02 38:03

Yes, give us Lorcan, please.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Give us more Lorcan Loken, please.

SPEAKER_03 38:07

We love him.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Lorcan Loken, yes. Obsessed.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

I love him because he made he made her um he made her strips of fabric for her her monthly. I know that's my man.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

And he's willing to do that. That's the thing. That's the thing, right? Because it's like men don't understand that we just want to be seen. And we want to be seen on a level of just like basic humanity, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Well, I love that she was like, I want to know what happens when you're traveling to Mount Doom and you get your period. And to me, that is her response is Lorcan cutting up strips of fabric.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Clothes, not just fabric of his shirt clothes, and he's like, My girl will not go without. And I love that. And and that's what women want because obviously it was so memorable that people still talk of people.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I also just pictured in that scene. I know this is just like a silly little note, but like I just pictured his shirt continuously getting like shorter and shorter and shorter.

SPEAKER_04 39:08

He got a crop top. He's like having a crop top.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

I'm imagining like this really thin, gauzy, like romanticy shirt. I'm like, I don't know that that's holding much of anything, but okay, it's so sweet.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

The other one that caught my ear, Alex, you literally just brought it up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Where did Vaughn go? Where did Vaughn go? Oh my god. And she was like, I think about that often. And I'm like, So maybe questions. We do too. I think about Vaughn often. That's funny.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Obsess. Um, I know we also kind of already touched on it, but speaking of goodbye characters, uh, bye, Tamlin. You're not getting your redemption arc, probably.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

We don't think. She did say she asked her friend, like, how would you feel about that? It does sound like she's like maybe toying with the idea, but I now that I've heard the interview, I'm kind of like, no, don't give Tamlin a redemption arc. I agree. Like, he doesn't deserve it.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Also, I think in terms of like so many people identifying him as the abuser, which he is, it's just like, no, I think it's actually more realistic for us to see somebody who is an abuser and someone who left that abuser, and that abuser having to sit their shit. Yeah. You said it more eloquently than me, Joe. Consequences to your act. By tampon.

unknown 40:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

I love that every time I type out Tamlin in my phone, it autocorrects to tampon.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Dude, it did it to me the other night. I started cracking up because I literally didn't mean to. I spelled out Tamlin and it switched to tampon. It said no.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

And you're like, you know what? You right. You right.

SPEAKER_03 40:44

I was like, Yep, your phone said not in this house.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Also, you guys, Briaxis is a girl, and of course she is.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Squealed. I and she dropped it so casually. Not so much. And I was like, wait. And I think the reason it's shocking is because the characters in the Avatar series call Briaxis a he. They assume it's a he. So that's why we all assume it was a he.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

I always thought it was a she.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Really?

SPEAKER_03 41:14

I did. I did. I didn't even catch that they called it a he. I always have to.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

So here's a lot of reasoning why I caught it. Because that whole section of the castle is for a space of refuge women.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

For women. She's in the bottom. And she's in the city.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Okay, I will say I saw a theory literally today because of the interview that came out that someone had that Briaxis is Paul Tane from Thrones of Glass. And I kind of love it.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Okay, but that can't be. Why? Dorian summons her and she looks like her.

SPEAKER_02 41:49

No. So when she explodes herself to take out the castle, she's described actually as Briaxis is described in Akhtar. They actually like they broke down, like they wrote out the actual paragraphs in their theory of the exact descriptions, and she's described almost exactly the same. I mean, she would mean refuge. I don't know how she would have gotten there from the Thrones of Gloss world to Actar World, but I kind of like love that because it literally describes her like as she's like blowing up the castle to like take out everyone, that she like becomes fear, she becomes darkness, she becomes all these things. And then when we meet Bryaxis, it's very similar description.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

She's fear incarnate.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

Yes. And I'm kind of like obsessed with it being Caltain.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

I mean, I wonder if maybe Sarah wrote Briaxis to honor Caltain. You know what I mean? But like it's not her, but it's not like actual. Like the S. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the S Caltain.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Yeah. That's not everything has to be an actual crossover.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Right. Like that would be a good question to ask her. Like, hey, were you inspired by Caltain when you wrote, you know, Briaxis' character? Because you said X, Y, and Z, and it sounds exactly like this. Like, where was your head when you wrote that?

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Yeah. That is a good question. Speaking of bodies, the whole Cormac no body thing, I was like, no, he's dead, you guys. Like, it's pretty well established that he's dead. He's not coming back.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

I agree, only because, too, we're doing our reread right now, and I feel like if he had survived, we would have seen him in CC three. If it would feel very odd for him to then come back in CC four, where it's like he's been gone for like a thousand pages.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

She also tied him up in a nice little bow. Like his character feels done. And also she laughed it off.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

And his love of his life also died. It's like, who is he coming back for? Yeah. Not Bryce. Yeah. It kind of like to me, the fact that he died felt very like he is now with Sophie. It was his decision. And that's it. It was his decision. He's now with Sophie. They're together in like whatever afterlife we think that they might have together. And I think that's way better.

SPEAKER_00 43:55

Yeah. I agree. I think it's a nice bow for that one.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

I agree. And she's not. Afraid to kill off characters. Let's all remember Aiden's father. She's not afraid to be like, no, this person's actually dead.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Mm-hmm. Dorian's father.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

A lot of dads die. A lot of dads die. A lot of dads die.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

I wonder how her dad feels about that.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Manon is in therapy. I love that for her.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

I love that Manon is in therapy.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Mm-hmm. She needs it. So her and her and my man's could get back together?

SPEAKER_02 44:25

I think that would actually be my number one question. And I think she did ask it if Manan and Um Dorian were endgame. I want to know really what happened between them. I want that story. And is she ever gonna write it?

SPEAKER_00 44:38

Are we ever gonna see it?

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

That would be my question.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Me. I love Dorian. I was like, Dorian's my favorite. I was saying that sad that Aylen did not choose him, actually. He was my my number one choice from the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 44:53

To be fair, they're technically related. Yeah. To be fair. So I feel like it's a good thing she didn't choose him. I realize they're like generations removed related, but still it.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Yeah. Once you know that information. Yeah. You can't unsee it. You can't unsee it.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Like I know they're like a thousand years removed from like the people who related them, but I'm like, no, can't unsee it.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

Another question that Alex had asked is Mama Arteron descended from the Iron Teeth Witches and Thrones of Glass. And Sarah just skipped the question, left, and asked for a spicy margarita. A woman after our own hearts. I will say. That's not no. It's not no.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

And I did notice the theories that she's pretty much already addressed was the ones that she answered. Like, you know, Bryce and Hunt. That was something she straight up answered. Because that was like an obvious okay, I just need to debunk this theory. If it was something that was a crossover that she could explore in a future book, she was just like, ha ha ha ha ha, no. Yeah. To where she's like, I don't know where that story is going yet. So or she does and she doesn't want to tell us. Because honestly, let's be real here. We all have these questions. We would love to ask them of her, but if she really did ruin something that was coming out in the next book, would you be happy? No. No.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

No. Well, that's what was also so interesting about the more question, because I think we are gonna get a bit more of more in the next book. So with the question, does she have more powers? Yeah, she does. So it's more than truth.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

She didn't even explain what the power of truth was. So I think that's what Alex really was asking was like, no one understands what the power of truth is. And she and she knew that's what she was asking her. And she still was like, nah.

SPEAKER_03 46:37

I felt like this interview was very satisfying. I agree. I was super satisfied. I was super invested. I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

It's interesting that I feel like the three of us really felt like she actually answered a lot in their interview and we're like, oh my God, she gave us so much good details. But like my best friend Lindy was texting me as she was listening to it a few days later, and she was like, oh, this is so annoying. She's dodging every question.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

I didn't feel like it dodged everyone. I didn't feel like that at all. Lindy, but I disagree.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Yeah, I completely disagree. She made an example too about the writing process and how she was like, oh, this is so annoying. She's like, it just came to me. And I'm like, well, yeah, most writers, their stories just come to them. What do you expect her to say? I don't like I didn't totally understand. I love you, Lindy, so much. I don't mean to dog you on our property. Yeah, Lindy.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

Love you so much. I really think that the reason why it felt satisfying to us, like our questions were answered, is because a lot of these theories we had come up with ourselves. And so hearing her dodge them was an answer.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

That wasn't its perception.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

And it's not even the theories when it comes to like the questions about her writing and stuff. I think it is because I just came like from Romanice Con and I just listened to so many authors talk about their writing process. Talking about all those types of things. I'm like, Sarah's answers were like very run-of-the-mill to me in that regard of like the similar things that they all talk about. It didn't feel like she wasn't really answering the questions to me. I'm like, that's like how all of the authors have answered that I've ever seen talk on panels. They're like, yeah, I don't know where I came up with this thing. It just like popped my head. You know, I thought it'd be cool if there were steam dragons in my story. So I put it in there. It's not like this like grand scheme of things.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

Like, like, was Montana not enough of an answer?

SPEAKER_00 48:22

At uh romantic con I especially went towards a lot of the writing workshops and stuff, aspiring author. But one of the other things that I noticed as a parallel was she had said sometimes she'll let the character tell her where she's going. And a lot of other authors said the same thing. A hundred percent. Because sometimes you think you know where you're going, but as you're developing the character, the character is building their own story. Right.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

I was thinking the same thing. Hannah Nicole Mayer talks about that so so much because she has a slow burn series, and so a lot of the criticism from fans has been like, kiss already too slow, kiss already, and she's like, I try, try really hard. They just won't do it, they won't listen to me.

SPEAKER_03 49:04

They won't listen to me. I want them to, but they just don't want to.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

Like, yeah, it's really funny listening to her interviews. Yeah. She's like, I've tried, I've written these scenes, and they're just so awkward because I'm forcing it, and it's because I want them to do it, but they just won't do it. Yeah. But it's so true.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

It's so true.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

It is true.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

I love creative people. Me too. So fuck Mary Kill Reese Hunt or Rowan. I know you guys have been thinking about it. So where did you guys land on this?

SPEAKER_02 49:34

Okay, so for me, it's kind of easy.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Okay, what's yours?

SPEAKER_02 49:39

I mean, I would definitely marry Resand. Duh.

SPEAKER_00 49:41

Like hands down.

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Duh. Duh. Yeah. And I would fuck Rowan and Kill Hunt.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

I said the same thing. Wait, no, that's the same. That is the right answer. We're hot. We're triplets. Like how you're like, that's the right answer. I mean, in my opinion, somebody is probably like Hunt is the perfect husband, but like And good for them.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

I love that for them. He's just too much of like, in my mind, I always kind of imagine him as kind of like a frat bro. Yeah. Like, that's just like not my vibe. It's the backwards baseball cap. Like the backward baseball cap. And like he watches sunball, basketball shows.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Yeah, I'm like, I don't think Rowan would make me watch Sunball.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

No, and you know what?

SPEAKER_00 50:23

I think it's wine and fun time.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

Party. And then Reese Sand is like the best one of them all. So obviously I'd want to be stuck with him forever.

SPEAKER_00 50:32

Yep. Like he calls her Faith, darling. Speak to me. We don't ever have to fuck. Like, just speak to me always.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

A hundred percent. Like, like to me, Reese is like the partner you want by your side, who also you get to fuck, by the way, because you're married to them. So like you get the boast of both.

SPEAKER_03 50:49

With or without wings, both. Same. In the sky, in the air.

SPEAKER_02 50:53

I'm just thinking about it Romanacy Con. There was a panel where we were talking about like this or that tropes that it was all about smut. And they started to run out of things of like, this or that would you choose? And one was spit in your mouth. And Joe like yelled out. Ew, that's so gross. But one of the the earlier there, so that's was vampire or werewolf, and we were talking about like shifters and stuff. I've like this other girl at the con was like, so someone can't spit in your mouth, but you fuck a bat.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

And I was like, not in animal form, not in bat form. Sand is shifted. And then I said, that one I would do. Resand shifted in the sky, in the air. Just with all my goodies out for the world to see. You know? I mean, how long were they up there doing that? You know? Could you imagine taking your? People had to lessen.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

But also, that's us that's that's a testament to his grip. Oh. For sure. His grip. So yes, Alex, we all agree with you. That's that is the correct answer.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

That's the correct answer. I think I kind of feel like most people agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

Yeah. I think the real question is fuck Mary Kill. And it's like Dorian, Cole, and Sam. K. Hall? Cole. She said I can call him whatever I want, not calling him a vegetable.

SPEAKER_03 52:12

But no one knows who that is. So we're gonna say she calls K.O.

SPEAKER_02 52:15

Cole. Okay. I am not the only one who does that. They definitely know who I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

Because it's KHL. It's K Hall. KL.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

No.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

I cannot with you.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

I refuse. It's not a name.

SPEAKER_00 52:29

Oh my god. Okay. Who are the names? Sorry. Let me let me get my brain back.

SPEAKER_02 52:34

Dorian.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:36

Kay Kayle and Sam.

SPEAKER_03 52:39

Oh, we're gonna marry Dorian. We're gonna fuck Sam and we're gonna kill Kayle. Yeah, that's the correct answer. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 52:46

That is the correct answer. I agree. That's the correct answer.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Yeah. This is fun. Do more. Do more. Yeah. This is fun. Wait, okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

So now we have to now we have to do Lucian, Azrael and Cassian. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

Oh Mary Cassian. No. I was marrying Cassian. Mary and Cassian. Fuck Ezra. I'm fucking Azrael and killing Lucian. Listen, as much as I love Azrael, he's a little too guarded and closed off for me. I need more communication and someone who's willing to meet me and be there. Yeah, that's a fuck. That's a fuck. And he's a freak in the sheets.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

He's definitely the fuck.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

I think the freak in the sheets! And and he'll defend his queen. But definitely we're killing Lucian.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

Hilarious one now. Because this is gonna be almost hard to choose in the opposite way.

SPEAKER_01 53:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Ethan.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Oh just gonna say that! Tharian. Okay. And Rune. Okay, oh Rune.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

Um Marrying Rune.

SPEAKER_01 53:43

Marrying Rune. Easily we're marrying Rune.

SPEAKER_03 53:45

Therian. Killing Freaky and killing Ethan. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:49

100%. I agree with that. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 53:51

But Therian cannot be on his uh his venom high when we're doing it, cuz I need him to focus. Yeah, I think he's sober now.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

I really I'm really hoping he has a redemption art, guys. He's killing me right now.

SPEAKER_03 54:06

Okay. Let's not do rune instead. We've got Ethan, Tamlin, and Therian.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 54:13

We're still killing Tamlin. Are we now marrying? I'm gonna marry Ethan, still fuck Therian, and I'm gonna kill Tamlin.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

I think I would rather marry Therian.

SPEAKER_03 54:25

I don't know, man. He's uh he's a womanizer.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

I I he wouldn't be faithful. At least Ethan tries, even though he's terrible at trying. Okay, you're making a defense for Ethan. I know, but at least he tried to.

SPEAKER_03 54:38

That's why you had to do a hard one. I gave you a really hard one.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

Yeah, that was a very hard one. I I think we gotta kill Tamlin for sure. We definitely have to kill Tamlin. That's the right answer. He's dead. Yeah, that's the right answer. Lock me in a house. Yeah, because Therian, he's the better fuck, probably. Yeah. So Ethan is the more wholesome and stupid one. But he does try. Stupid. But he's he's gonna be the better husband. Yeah. He would be shockingly.

SPEAKER_03 55:05

Yeah. Superman complex. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

That was a rough one. That was a rough one. It was.

SPEAKER_03 55:10

I had to give you a true rough one.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

You did. I will say I do love when she said that, like, I see someone reading my book and I'm like, hi.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Like I just think that's like so endearing. Thank you. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

That's so sweet.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

Well, scribes, that is our debrief of the Sarah J. Mass interview on Call Her Daddy. Whether you came for the Avatar news, the writing insights, or just to further drool over the mother herself spilling a little author tea. We hope you had as much fun unpacking it with us as we did.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

And if you're not ready to leave the mass first just yet, you're in luck. Our latest episode is live right now, where we're breaking down Crescent City, House of Sky and Breath. All the chaos, revelations, and absolutely feral plot twists included.

SPEAKER_03 55:57

And next month, we're continuing the spiral with Crescent City, House of Flame and Shadow, where things somehow get even wilder.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

So make sure you're following the podcast. Leave us a rating if you're enjoying the show. And send this episode to your favorite book, Bestie, who also has opinions about the Mass Verse.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

Keep the theories wild, the drinks strong, and remember some stories are best unpacked with a little chaos and a cocktail.

SPEAKER_03 56:21

Until next time, Saucy Scraps vibes out. Love you guys.