Crescent City Book 3: The Worlds Collide Episode

Scribes… this episode? Unhinged in the best way. 🔥

We dove headfirst into House of Flame and Shadow and immediately lost our composure over the multiversal chaos, the reveals that had us pausing every five seconds, and the threads that are absolutely not coincidental.

We’re talking:
— moments that altered our brain chemistry
— theories we will stand by (for now 👀)
— characters we trust… and the ones we absolutely do not
— and the emotional damage we’re still processing in real time

It’s chaotic, it’s unfiltered, and it’s very much us spiraling through every detail like our lives depend on it.

Pour something strong and get into it.

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Then descend deeper into the shadows with us on Patreon: patreon.com/SaucyScribesPodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the Saucy Scribes Podcast. I'm Alex, your resident book psycho.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

I'm Allie, your aspiring author.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

And I'm Joe, your book bestie.

SPEAKER_03 0:14

Today we're diving deep into Crescent City House of Flame and Shadow by Sarah J. Masse, the third installment and currently latest book in the CC universe. Where the rebellion goes to new heights, loyalties across worlds are tested, and the stories in Lunathion come to a conclusion for now.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

And because some stories are best unpacked with a drink in hand, on this podcast we pair great books with even better cocktails. Today, we're giving you a quick rundown of the drinks we've lined up for this episode. So keep an eye on our Instagram at Saucy Scribes Pod, where the full recipes drop every Monday. This month, we're continuing our Crescent City cocktail lineup, a world of neon lights, ancient magic, dangerous politics, and enough emotional devastation to acquire a stiff pore. These drinks are bold, electric, and a little unhinged, just like the city itself. So grab a glass, cue the sense, and let's dive into Crescent City Cocktails, House of Flame and Shadow.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

First up, we have Wind Blades answer. It's that moment when two forces meet and instead of clashing, recognize each other. Sharp citrus cuts clean, basil rises green and alive, and everything settles into perfect, deliberate balance. Not every power announces itself loudly. Some are quiet, precise, inevitable.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Next we have a Valen Awakening in that quiet shift, the moment clarity breaks through the haze. Cool cucumber and bright Meyer lemon rise first, while a soft thread of smoke lingers underneath, grounding what's just beginning to emerge, something ancient. It stirs slowly through mist, through memory, through something just beneath the surface.

SPEAKER_03 1:49

Flame and shadow is that tension, the slow burn beneath the surface, the smoke that lingers long after the spark. Inspired by when Roga hands Ethan a mysterious smoking drink in House of Flame and Shadow, it's described as dark and amber with a bite of ginger and a haze of rising smoke. Some power doesn't choose between light and dark, it becomes both.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

For our mock tale, the ascent is that moment. The shift upward carried on brightness and spark, the tart cherry and lime cut clean, lifted by a gentle effervescence that builds with every sip. Not every rise is loud. Some feel like breath returning, like light breaking through.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Four drinks, one world of secrets, power, and rebellion. Each sip carries danger, desire, and the quiet fires that drive these characters forward. Bright, smoky, fiery, and relentless, these cocktails are a taste of Midgard itself. Poor sip and remember, some stories are meant to be experienced with a drink in hand.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

Cheers. Cheers!

SPEAKER_01 2:47

I'm actually drinking an ascent today, but mine is the non-mocktail version, the cocktail version. I'm drinking the Avalan Awakening. Delicious.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

I'm also drinking the Ascent, but mine is uh the tart cherry and uh not a mocktail.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Ooh, delicious. Our Patreon is live. If you love the show, consider becoming a first-year scribe for just$5 a month. You'll get early access to our ad-free episodes, a digital cocktail booklet for each book we cover, and an exclusive printable dust sleeve designed to mimic the look of vintage leather-bound books. Perfect for dressing up your romanticy shelf. This membership is a way to support the show and help us continue bringing this magical, messy, and swoony content to life. And if you've got a moment, we love if you rated and reviewed the podcast wherever you are listening.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Before we dive in, we need to give a spoiler warning. We will be discussing the entirety of the Crescent City series and the entire Sarah J. Mass universe. This is our deep dive in the preparation for Act Or 6, which we manifested and is releasing at the end of the year. Woo. We will also be including any bonus material and anything Sarah J. Mass has said in interviews. If we reference another series spoiler, we give a spoiler sound in the episode so that you can skip ahead.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

A quick note from your Saucy Scribes before we step into the fire, Crescent City, House in Flame and Shadow, doesn't just escalate, it detonates. The rebellion is no longer brewing, it's colliding across worlds. The stakes are cosmic, the truths are devastating, and the lines between ally and enemy blur in ways that will leave you reeling. This is a story forged in war, sacrifice, and reckoning. So expect graphic violence, torture, political corruption, trauma, explicit language, sexual content, and emotional devastation on a multiversal scale, balanced with razor-sharp humor, fierce loyalty, and a love that refuses to be extinguished even in the dark. So consider this your neon-lit trigger warning. If any of these themes feel heavy, step away when you need to and protect your heart always. But if you're ready to burn it all down, pour something strong and follow us into the explosive world-shattering chaos of Crescent City. The gates are splintering, the truth is unraveling, and we're stepping beyond Lunathion. Alex, take us in.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Alright, so let's get into our summary of book three, and it's a long one, so stay with us. So House of Flame and Shadow kicks off with a villain convention from hell in the Crystal Palace. The Asteri, led by the actual worst parasite Rygilis, are losing it because Bryce Quinlan has vanished after literally falling into another universe at the end of House of Sky and Breath. Thousands of mystics are being used as magical Google searches to find her, and we learn Offion got completely played because destroying the Yidra Mech Lab was apparently just a practice round, and Rygilis quietly built a bigger army right under their noses. Meanwhile, Hunt, Rune, and Baxian are being tortured in the dungeons by Pollux, and Lydia, aka Agent Day Bright, has to pretend she hasn't fallen for Rune while he refuses to answer her telepathic texts because feelings are real messy. And then plot twist, the Prince of Hell, Adis, just shows up in Hunt's cell like, Hi, let me drop some cryptic info for you one more time.

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Meanwhile, Bryce is out here doing the most dramatic multiverse crossover in Valaris. She gets interrogated by Ray Sand, Azreel and Amran, explores tunnels with Nesta and Azreel, and discovers a magical hologram from Celine, Thea's daughter. Plot twist: the Asseri once invaded Prithian. They were called the Daglin, got roasted using their own magical toys, aka the Dreadtrove, and later accidentally ended up in Midgard, enslaving humans and Faye while feeding on magic via the drop. Bryce being Bryce absorbs Celine's leftover power, steals Truth Teller from Azreel, grabs her star sword, activates the horn in her back like it's a magical fanny pack, and dips out of Prithian. Translation: Bryce arrives in another universe, steals a bunch of power, learns thousands of years of lore, robs the night court, and leaves everyone else wondering if they need to hire a security consultant. Absolutely iconic.

SPEAKER_00 7:06

Meanwhile, back in Midgard, chaos reigns. Darion panics, defects to the meat market, and pledges loyalty to the Viper Queen because it's Darien. Flynn, Ethan, and Declan show up to rescue him, bringing along Sigrid Fender. The long-lost Alpha Wolf, Ethan just had to rescue last book. Lydia pops in, like the sneaky spy that she is and explains that she's a double agent who needs Declan to hack the palace cameras so she can rescue Hunt, Rune, and Vaxian. The Viper Queen, ever reasonable, makes them fight Sigrid for Therian's freedom, and Ethan accidentally kills her. Whoops, my bad. So Therian is free. The meat market explodes because the Sprite thinks subtlety is boring, and Lydia rescues the men from the dungeons. Then Bryce does what any chaotic genius would do, teleports into her dad's house, pretends it was an accident, extracts all the info she needs, traps him, and reunites with the gang on the depth charger. They sail to Avalon, deal with misogynistic Orvin, that man, and pick up Flynn's sister Sathia by marrying her to Therian. Because Therian needed more life chaos, right? They explore the cave of princes, which basically becomes a supernatural group chat with the Prince of L. The princes reveal two major things. Bryce needs all of Queen Thea's hidden power to defeat the Asteri, and Hunt was literally engineered by them using the powers of Apollyon and Thanatos to help a future heir of Thea, which is a lot to unpack for one cave conversation, right? But Bryce finds and absorbs all of Thea's magic in the caves, kills Morbin, Rune kills the Autumn King, and suddenly Bryce's queen of both Avalon and the Valberon Faye. Totally casual Tuesday.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Meanwhile, Ethan decides the obvious solution to oops, I accidentally killed the lost wolf heir is necromancy, naturally. He heads to the house of flame and shadow, hunting someone to resurrect Sigreed and instead runs into Jessica, who casually drops. She was a priestess at Parthos Library and is cursed with immortality by Apollyon until she reveals the book's hidden powers and secrets. She points him toward Hipaxia, who recently lost her throne with the witches. Hipaxia tries to resurrect Sigreed and accidentally upgrades her into a Reaper. They gotta just stop messing with shit. Big oops. She died. She died. Let her die. Plan B resurrect Sophie to fix Sigreed, but when Ethan and Hipaxia travel to Avalon, Bryce has already killed Morvin. The castle collapsed, and Sophie's body is gone. Hunt contributes lightning-filled crystals. Hipaxia whips up an antidote to the parasite in the water, draining all of their power, and tests it on Ethan, giving him a full ice magic glow-up. He returns to the wolf den to confess everything, only to be confronted by Sabine, who has somehow retrieved Reaper Segreed and is trying to frame Ethan for murdering her. When it becomes painfully obvious Segreed is just as awful as Sabine, the Prime of the Wolves steps in and unexpectedly names Ethan his heir. Sabine responds in the calmest way possible by murdering her own father. After which Segreed eats his soul, as Reapers do. Ethan finally grows a pear and snaps, kills Sabine. Segreed escapes into the night, and the remaining wolves kneel to Ethan as their new prime.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

So, Bryce and Hunt head to Nenia to open the northern rift, dragging her mom and stepdad along like collateral for a bribe. Bryce casually borrows the mask from Nesta, sure, back in Perthian, thanks collateral, and promptly defeats a resurrected Harpy, who's been powered up with stolen lightning from Hunt. Hunt, finally focusing, erases his cursed crown, and Isaiah is finally embracing his Prince of Hell origins. Meanwhile, Ethan has a deep, I'm the new Wolf King now moment and gets a bullet full of second light from the dead for Bryce's God Slayer rifle, and basically turns the Under King into an ice sculpture with a little help from Hypaxia, who swings a sword for dramatic effect, becoming head of the House of Flame and Shadow in the process. Ethan then heads to the Eternal City to deliver antidotes and weapons to their friends.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Bryce, Unt, Zaya, and Naomi orchestrate a massive media distraction, releasing incriminating footage of Bryce killing Micah from Book One. Remember that? The whole bathroom, locked him in a bathroom scene? And then waltzes into the Crystal Palace. Bryce resurrects the fallen angels using the mask, lets them possess mech suits, and combines the Star Sword and Truth Teller to finally take down an Asteri on the battlefield. And Lydia face off against Pollux, unlock their new powers via the antidote, and save Lydia's sons.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

In the finale, Bryce and Hunt battle Rigilus and the remaining Asteri. They blow up the first light chorus with the Godslayer rifle, creating a black hole, which Bryce heroically throws into a portal to nowhere. Hunt dives into a mech suit, dons the mask, and rescues Bryce mid-black hole, and they barely escape. Bryce actually dies, but then Jessica trades her a mortal curse to bring her back, giving a last cryptic life lesson about protecting Parthos's books.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

With the Astery gone, Bryce closes the Northern Rift, returns her parents and the mask slash truth teller slash star sword to their rightful owners, reforms the monarchy into something vaguely fair, and sets up shop with fire sprites guarding the Parthos books. Even the Pegasi returned to Avelan, because of course they do. Jelly Jubilee would be so proud.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Folks, is how Bryce basically leveled up across two universes, rewrote the monarchy, and gave the Asteri a one-way ticket to nowhere. Total chaos, total power moves, total Bryce energy.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

But of course we can't just let that epic summary sit there like a pile of perfectly baked chaos. No, no. We need to pick apart the threads, untangle the lore spaghetti, and ask the really important questions.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Exactly. Who actually knew what about Thea's magic? How did Bryce survive that black hole with style points still intact? And what does all of this mean for the balance of magic, politics, and let's be real, emotional trauma in Midgard? Welcome to our Threads of Theory segment, where nothing is too wild to consider and everything is up for debate. Let's untangle the threads.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Woo!

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Right off the bat, Prithian.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Yep. Right off the bat, Prithian. I think we were all literally screaming.

SPEAKER_03 13:45

100%.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

And this was also the first book that I was like in real time waiting to come out. So CC2, I actually had that lag in like waiting for CC three to come out. So I remember when I opened this book, I was like, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

Oh my gosh, I believe it. I mean, I know we talked about it in the in a previous episode, but I was so happy that I was able to just like start book three. And Alex was like, Same. Was not able to. Can you? And I was like, no, I can't. I really can't.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

To be fair, spiral. It was only like a few months I had to wait. I remember finishing book two, seeing that book three hadn't come out yet. And I was like, oh, well, thank God it comes out in like March or April. And it was like August, September around that time. So I was like, I don't have to wait that long.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

You know what? I was thinking that I came into this after the fact. I didn't. Alex brought me along for the ride, so I also had to wait for book three to come out.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

You don't even remember. You blocked it out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

You blocked out the trapping. I read I read uh Throne of Glass after this. That's why. That's why I don't remember.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Oh yeah. It didn't feel like you really had to wait that long because you had like a band-aid to cover it.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

Yeah. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

I did not because I read Thrones of Glass second.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

So it was like And I read it first. We all have a different reading order.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah. So I was like, oh, I actually have to wait now. Everything is terrible.

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Well, let's talk about Re-Sand and Bryce.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

Yes. Oh my gosh. I think oh, so many things about this. So he is interrogating her. And I think we're all picturing what we know from Akatar when he used to interrogate other people in this very specific room.

SPEAKER_03 15:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

With Azrael. It was all very hush-hush, close behind doors.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

Fira baby, you don't come down here.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

No, Fabra baby, you do not come down here. Your sister can, though. Nesta can come down here. You cannot look after Nyx. But I do think we still see a little bit of character development from Reese at the end of Akatar here because he chooses to not look in Bryce's memory and read her mind, which I think in Aquatar he absolutely would have. For sure. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

Yeah, he gave it as like an offer. He was like, may I? She's like, absolutely fucking no. No. But I did find it interesting that he gave that as an offer. Then it's almost like he backpedaled and was like, you know what? Now that you're willing to let me see, I'm gonna go get the orrery and you're gonna show me in that.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Well, he wants everyone to be able to see it. Yeah, he's like, we're gonna project this. Let me get that, let me get the projector. But I also think like that's a way less intimate way actually of her sharing her memories, and then she can choose what she shows them. I actually think he was doing it to make her more comfortable. Like a kindness. Like a kindness, yeah. Cause he, I mean, we all know he could have looked in her mind and then shared those memories with everyone else. But I think this gave her that control and that choice of what to show them. And so he wasn't like digging around in her brain. And I do think it was important for Bryce's character development to see Faye who are respectful of choices and who aren't power-hungry creeps, essentially, because that's like what she thinks all she knows. And we know that comes later on into the story as well.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

But let's just talk about this whole part where she's in Prythian, because I think this is where, at least for me, I had a hard time with CC3, is I loved all this, but it made me really not like Bryce. And I think it's because we all know Reese and Azrael and Aaron, and we as the reader trust them to do the right thing, to be good people. Whereas obviously Bryce doesn't know them and she doesn't. And so when she's manipulating them and being an asshole to them, you're just kind of like, fuck you, Bryce. Yeah. And it makes her really unlikable.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

It does. Right. When I was reading it, I was like, oh, this is a kind of out of character for you, the way that you're reacting to these situations. And maybe you could say that it's coming from like the fear of losing everything because so much was on the line for her that maybe she wasn't acting like herself, or maybe because she no longer had Hunt.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Well, she also like takes it back. It's like, you know, she backs them into a quarter and then regrets it and goes and rescues them. Yes. Yes. Twice. I think it was on purpose. And I think she was questioning herself and her motives. Like, I don't think it was a mistake.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I mean, obviously she's concerned about Hunt. I mean, she doesn't know that they're right now being tortured. Like, she doesn't know that. She assumes. She knows that. Right.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Yeah, she knows that.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

She's like, they're either being tortured or they're dead. I don't know which one, but those are the only two options.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Those are definitely the only two options.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

Maybe she just doesn't know how they're being tortured. But she's concerned about the people she loves. And it's like, look, I don't have time for this shit. I need to get home. I need to get what I need. Whatever reason why this sword brought me here, I need to get it and bounce because I need to get back to the people I love. I need to help save them. But it's, I think it's also frustrating for us because like we love Nesta and Azriel. Like we know who they are. We know we've seen their struggles. And it's like, cut them some slack, man. Stop trying to kill my peeps, you know?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

We also know that because we know them as readers, if she had just been honest and opened up to them, they would have helped her. 100%. I think we all know where that would have gone. So when she's constantly being a dick to them, you're just like, ugh. And when you really look at it, I don't think Bryce is really acting that out of character. She always has this kind of like, I have all these plans up my sleeves. Like the way she talks to Autumn King, like literally, once she bounces back into Perthian, where she manipulates him. This is all very much her personality. But I think a lot of people compare Ailen and Bryce, and this is where people were like, Ailen would never have done this, but they are different characters. And it is like, Bryce is annoying here. And but I think if it was against people we didn't know as readers, we wouldn't find it annoying. We would have been like, Bryce is so smart, she's outwitting them. You know? Like she's she's staying two steps ahead, like she did in book one with Micah and all these other people. But because we know them, it's such a why won't you just cooperate with them?

SPEAKER_00 20:07

Like, like if we would have read Crescent City first, then we would have been like, go, girl, get them, yeah, trap them. But because Avatar first, we were like, uh-uh, girl, calm down.

unknown 20:17

Calm down.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Take a break.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Which I can't imagine reading Crescent City first. You would have no idea what is going on in this.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

You would be like, who is reading? You'd be surprised. Who would be surprised? In some of the reading groups I'm in, people are like, oh, I'm starting Crescent City. And everyone in the comments is like, no, stop. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Absolutely. Which, like, this is a great point to bring up. A lot of people I've seen on like influencers on BookTalk and other podcasts have been like making these little videos, being like, Do you need to read Crescent City before Akatar 6? And all of them have been like, no, it'll be fine. You might be missing some like big rounded out information, but you won't be you won't be confused. And I think that is totally incorrect. I think it's going to be the same situation here where if you hadn't read Akatar before this, you would be like, What the fuck is going on? Yeah. Sarah J. Mass actually gave an interview in 2022 when CC3 was getting ready to be released, saying that she no longer sees her series as standalone series. She doesn't view them that way anymore. And when CC3 was coming out, she said that it was going to be a setup book for CC4 and for Akatar 6.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

So I don't know why a lot of people are saying you don't need to read Crescent City because that interview tells me you absolutely do need to read Crescent City.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Just think about you know that you need to.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

I cannot believe that that is people's advice and videos they're making right now. I think it is absolutely incredible. Sorry, but like they're wrong. You uh you do need to Sarah James said it is a setup book for Akatar 6. So, like, why would you think that you don't need to read it? I don't get it. Right, like follow what the author says, truly.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Like Okay, for for example, in the end, Bryce gives back the sword, right? Yeah. She gives them the sword, gives it to Nesta. Gwidian. Yeah, yeah, that one. If you start picking up Akatar 6 without having read Crescent CD, you're gonna be like, where did the sword come from?

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Who is this? What is this? So here's the thing even if she explains in that book, like Bryce gave us Gwidian, like during all this, as a reader, you're gonna be like, who the fuck is Bryce? Because who's Bryce? There's no way she's gonna take you out of the Avatar story to explain who Bryce is. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

Here's the only way that I can see it making sense. But again, it the only person who could know this is Sarah J. Mass. So if in the next Avatar, they're telling this whole scene from the perspective of Nesta and Azrael, which I don't think she's going to because it'll be repetitive. You know, maybe she'll touch on it a little bit, but I don't think that's how it's gonna go. That's the only way that it would make sense that you wouldn't need to have read this, but that's not going to happen. And the these influencers wouldn't know that. Like, yeah, so why are you giving people that advice?

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Yeah, exactly. So why are you people giving that advice? Like you have this platform and a lot of people are listening to you. To me, it's very bad advice. And I'm also really surprised that this is like the one question Alex didn't ask her on the Call Your Daddy podcast. And it seems like a very big question to ask now that we're like, do you need to do you need to read Crescent City before this book comes out? And I think Sarah J. Mas would have said yes, because especially because in that interview from 2022, she said she does not view her series as standalone series anymore. So that tells me she's depending on the reader to read them all.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Yeah, but maybe also Alex is like us, and it's fucking obvious. Like true.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

True.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

She was like, What are you talking about? Why would I need to ask this as a question?

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Because if you like, because if you've read Sarah J. Mass, you know you need to read that. And I think a lot of these influencers right now, too, are trying not to like spoil Crescent City by being like, you don't really need to read it. It's fine. But what they really need to be doing is like, bitches, you actually go to Prithian in Crescent City, you need to read it. Right. For a big thing. I'm sorry if that spoils it for you.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

I mean, you can also just big banner sign, be like, don't ask questions unless you want the book to be ruined, but you have to read this first. That's really what it comes down to. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Well, and timeline-wise, obviously we know this is after Nyx is born because we hear about Rhysan being an overprotected dad. And so this is the last time we see those characters. And so it's really weird to me to be like, you don't need to read these books when timeline-wise, this is the most recent information we have. And it's the reason why we chose to deep dive Crescent City in preparation for Aquatar instead of deep diving Avatar. On top of the fact that like every podcast on planet Earth has deep dived Avatar, and it felt a little like, why do we need to do this?

SPEAKER_03 25:02

And also we get to tie it into this. I mean, we've been able to tie in all three series. So Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

I think you only need to pick one.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

So and and you know, it's fun to watch Nesta put the mask on again.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

I do love because obviously Silver Flames is the last Avatar book we got. So when we see Nesta again described by somebody else, the first thing that Bryce sizes her up as is a warrior. And I love that because when you are reading Avatar, that's not really the first word I think that comes to mind when you think of Nesta. No, that's so true. Yeah, here's someone else's perspective after her journey through Silver Flames, after she's become Valkyrie, who's like, oh, this is a pure warrior. Right. You can see her transformation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

It's like, oh, this is who she is now. I do really. And I love it.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Speaking of Nesta, though, I love that she caught on to the fact that Bryce kept opening the wound in her hand because she's like, Why aren't you healing? Your knee healed, this healed, why isn't your hand healing? So she was like, I'm clocking you. You're up to some shit. Like, yeah, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 26:10

And then we get the Midden guard worm, the reason why Bryce is opening her wounds. So, and even Bryce says, Midden guard worm, did it come from Midgard?

SPEAKER_04 26:20

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

So, where she got the word Midgard and Middengard from is from Old Norse. And it's a middle word famously, and it's the same inspiration for Middle Earth from Lord of the Rings.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

Her little tie-in.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

So is it that the Middengard worm came from Midgard or is Sarah J. Mass just a huge Lord of the Rings fan, which we know she is, and she's she just used the influence in both places. I think it's most likely that.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Because, you know, the Middengard worm was Avatar Book One. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:57

Maybe this is the one that she said she mistakenly repeated a name. Maybe it's Midgard and the Middengard worm.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Maybe. I mean, it also just might be a thing where she's like, this kind of works out. Yeah, maybe the Mid and Guard worm could have been from Midgard and got here somehow. But I think when she was writing Crescent City, she was more like, ooh, I want this to be like my middle-earth type of realm. I'm gonna name it Midgard. And then she was like, we already named that thing the Middengard worm, whatever. And then later on was just kind of like, oh, but they do kind of like how she said in the interview, like sometimes stuff just works out. Yeah. And you didn't really plan for it. And I think that this is one of those things. I don't think we're gonna get like a history of the Middengard worm coming from Midgard.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah. I want to see it. I think no, I think it's just like a fun little nod. I want to see the history of the worm.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

What a weird history to learn. I want to know. Joe's like, I need quests. I need like a sidebook just for the midden quest.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Just for the where did you come from? Tell me your story.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

So while we're in the caves, so interesting that when they get to Celine's caves, they both have the eight-pointed star. Yeah. The thing that I found most interesting about this is that Nesta all of a sudden registers. She's like, no, I've been here. This is where I was. And that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Yeah, that's when she's like, oh, this is no place good. Yeah. I would also remember the prison if I went through her traumatic battles there. Yeah. Remember the eight-pointed star.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

But also the parallel that Bryce is now the horn, and the horn is returning from its original spot. Yeah. Returning to its original spot. The original spot. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

There's so much of that in this story, and it's so good. Um, they also find in the cave that all these constellations and Bryce is like, wait, these are the Midgard constellations. Right. This looks familiar. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

And the star of Ramiel.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yes. So I was going to say Orestes is one of those crossover names, but it's one of those things where you're reading, you're like, Orestes, I should know that. I should know that. And that's one of those things I had to like Google, be like, where is Orestes from? And it is one of the star names on top of Ramiel from the three stars. For others who like don't remember why we know that name. And someone also named a constellation in Midgard, Orestes. It just also shows how culture really works, right? Like when you migrate to a new place. You know, we take a little bit. We have New York because of York. Like you take a little bit of where you came from, and it's just a really beautiful way of showing that migration of the Faye to Midgard, too.

SPEAKER_03 29:31

Yeah, I totally agree. Which also makes me think that they were looking into the stars to be like, where is home?

SPEAKER_01 29:38

Yeah, how do we get home? How do we get home? Or we miss home too.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Yeah. But also, you know, there's like the oral stories, right? In cultures. The oral stories were changed to protect.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

You know? So it wasn't even like their exact history. They had to alter it a little to protect their home.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

Yeah. Well, speaking of oral history, let's talk about Celine's hologram. Download, her download. Yeah. Her complete download. She was like almost like a Star Wars Princess Leia situation. Like that's our Obi-Wan.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

You're the only hope. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think so. One of the biggest things right off the bat is not even like the information she gives, because it's just this huge download of like spitting info at you. But Azrael says that he she looks just like Re-San's sister. Yeah. So there is a theory going out there that Reesean's sister is still alive. And that Tamlin's father did not kill her. There are so many different offshoots to this theory, even that like Tamlin and his sister were mates, and Tamlin saved her and sent her to Midgard. So the other thing, and this was one of the questions that Alex asked her on the podcast was what is with the pool of Starlight in the Spring Court? And that's where this theory kind of comes from is that Tamlin whisked her away, put her through the pool of Starlight in the Spring Court, and she ended up in Midgard. I don't really think that's what happened, but I love that. But she did avoid the question in the interview. Quicksilver? Like, I know. But she did avoid the question in the interview. No, Tim Tam, he would never. No, Tim Tam would never. I also think for Reesan's sister to be alive all this time would be, I don't know how I feel about that. Um and stuck in Midgard. I think the fact that Celine looks so much like Reesan's sister is just showing us once again that these people are related. Celine is Re-San's ancestor. Like technically his great-great-great-great-grandmother. So of course, Reesan's sister might look like her. Yes. Like, I don't, I don't think, you know, Re-San's sister somehow ended up in Midgard, and that's why Rune looks so much like Reese and like all this stuff. It's like, well, well, Rune is also a descendant of Helena, and Helena and Celine were sisters. So obviously, then Rune and Reesand would look alike. I don't think you have to go through to so much theory.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

You don't. No, no one needs to be pushed in a well. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Do I think that pool of starlight means something? Yes. Do I think it's a portal to Midgard? No. Because it's not a misty thin place. It's a pool of starlight. I think it means something totally different that we just don't know about.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

If we're going based off of their theory that Tamlin was her mate, then why would he fight so hard for Fayra? He would be fighting hard to get back to his mate, don't you think?

SPEAKER_01 32:32

True. So true. Well, there's also another theory that's slightly different that Azrael and Reesan's sister were mate.

SPEAKER_03 32:40

I saw that one.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Yes. And that's why he looks so devastated whenever Reesan's sister comes up. I think it's more that he viewed her also as a little sister, which is why he looks so devastated when she comes up.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Yeah. That's true. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

And basically kind of raised him alongside Rissand. Yeah. So I also think sibling-like.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

If they lived together that long, were around each other that long, wouldn't he like they have both maids? Yeah, like wouldn't they have like been together then? You know? These they are, you know, hundreds of years old. I feel like they would have, you know, maybe at least kissed at some point.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Yeah, at some point. I think this is also a good time to address. I saw another theory saying that Reese is actually like the next ancestral line because he's keyed into the gates. He technically is, yes. Which he is keyed into the gates. And yes, he is in the family line, but he is not the next descendant from this. So I because he's not 15,000 years old, you guys. Like we don't know how old he is, but I know he's not that old.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Like maybe 500. That's yeah, he's like lucky number. I remember, I think from Akatar, he's around like 500. Also, he's already the High Lord of the Night Court. So it is interesting though, we find out Fionn the High King was Bryce's ancestor, but that also means that he is Reese's ancestor. So that means Reese and Bryce are very like distantly slash closely related.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Cousins. Probably on the male side.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Yes, because Helena and Celine, they're both descended from them, and they have the same father who is Fion. So I do think this is maybe some interesting foreshadowing, though, of Reese is in the line to become high king of Printhian. Fionn was the only high king of Pythian ever.

SPEAKER_03 34:32

Well, and Reese knows that though, and he's like, I don't want it.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

I don't think he knows that he's descended from Fion. He does not know that. That never comes up in Akatar.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

It does, though, because Cassian is like, you are the next in line for this.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

They just think he could he could power-wise take over the same way that Fion did. He does not know because they don't know anything about Faya, Celine, or Helena. They know nothing about any of that.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

And he's like, I don't know why I'm keyed into these gates.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Yes. So and when Celine came back, she hid all that history. She never said, My father is Fionn. Amran. So he has no idea. And I don't think Amron really knows. Amron kind of like suspects. She's the closest one to the stories. Yes. But she was already in the prison at that point and she only heard whispers.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

So which she mentions, like saying, I know I've heard a little bit about this, but she's the only one who would have heard something.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yes, but no, Reese does not know he is descended from Fionn. So I think it's very interesting foreshadowing. And once again, you have to read CC3. Yeah. Because I do think that's going to be a storyline in the future Actar books of whether Reese claims that power or not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Interesting. I think my brain just was like, these are connected. Yeah. No, Reese doesn't know.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

We know. We know Reese does not know.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. Very interesting. These bloodlines, man. I know. It gets so complicated.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

Fion's, where is Amran from? And so here's another wild theory from this. Okay. When they kill Fionn, because we find out that Thea killed her husband, by the way, which she also said that they loved each other. So this is like what is wrong with this woman? Is weird. They say that Truth Teller was his friend's dagger from the war. And we later find out through this like bomb of information that Analius was that friend and he's the one who held the pass famously. It's whose the blood right is like in honor of. Do we think Analius could be Azrael's ancestor?

SPEAKER_03 36:37

See, that's kind of more so where I'm thinking. Because he's able to carry the sword.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

So this is but that to me, Analias was not starborn. Analias was an Illyrian. And also Celine was the one who had the dagger when she came back to Prithian. Now my thought is, did she give it back to Analius' bloodline? And that's how Azrael got it, to hide it in plain sight, essentially. Or are Azrael and Reese related and they don't know it. Are they both descended from Celine? And like somehow Celine passed down the dagger in one area of the family that was not related to Reese. Because he can. He can bear the star sword and truth teller, telling me he has to have some starborn magic in his bloodline.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

And also this makes me think about Azrael's dad. Why was he trying so hard to make him weaker?

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Oh, oh yeah. To like starve his shadows and all that. Maybe he was like afraid of his own son being starborn.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Yeah. Being too powerful.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Because we do find out later that Bryce's starborn magic has shadow in it. Once she gets that full power and she looks at it, so it's like Azrael's manifestation of the power is just the shadows of the starlight. Yeah. Yeah. Because his shadows are weirder than everyone else's. It's like he just like got that part of it.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

So, so, and she got the shadows when she absorbed the other portion of Thea's power, right? Yes. That's when it happened. And so when Thea split herself off between her daughters, one went one way, one went the other way. Thea kept a portion. One daughter was just the starlight, which is maybe where Bryce got her starlight from over in Helena, yeah. Mid Midgard. And then the shadow portion may be the one that Celine took with her back to Prithian, and that is where Azrael gets his. And so then when Bryce gains that other portion of her power back, she also has shadows now. So I would not be surprised if Azrael's actually related to Bryce too.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

Oh yeah. Bryce and I think they may be related. I mean, we all know that Azrael's dad is a piece of shit. Like that's established. But what we don't know is that connection between him and Reese. Like, is there actually a connection? We also don't know who his mother is.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Yeah. I need his story. I bet the Star Wars magic comes from his mysterious mother, we know nothing about. But I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

They even call each other brothers and stuff. So it's like faded by the stars. They're bro faded. Wait, wait.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Crazy theory. Crazy theory. Because, okay, in the bonus content, um, where we get Azreel's POV after Silver Flames, he makes a comment about how he doesn't think it's fair that his two brothers get these two sisters, yet Elaine is not his mate. He's like, there's three of us and three sisters. Why is Elaine not my mate? That's fair. But what if part of the storyline of the next Avatar series is that we talked earlier in our in our episode from the Call Her Daughter podcast. We think the storyline's gonna be about like choosing your own love in spite of there being a mate, and Azrael's obviously part of that storyline. What if part of his character arc and coming into being his self is he actually finds out he is an actual brother to Reese and that they have like this special bond that makes the whole mate thing not matter?

SPEAKER_03 40:02

I love that. I love that too. It's faded mate bros.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

It's faded mate bros, exactly. They're always meant to be brothers because they're actually related. I love it so much. And then Azriel feels special and included, even though Elaine is not his mate.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Yeah. And then I think it's very intentional that it's not Reese going through this journey with Nesta and Bryce. It's Azriel. So I think him going on this journey is showing us a more intimate side of him that we don't necessarily get in the Avatar books, which furthermore leans into the fact that you need to read these stories before Avatar 6.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Because it's gonna be about him. I know it. Oh, it's definitely gonna be about him. We find out about the Faye from the Thrones of Glass universe from this Celine download. Um, and she says that they seem to know Rhydulus a long time and followed him into Midgard, and they've always been his most advent supporters. So that means let's look at Thrones of Glass and who he could have been in Thrones of Glass. I don't think we necessarily saw him as a character in Thrones of Glass. There's two, two theories here that he was a god from the Thrones of Glass world. When I looked at the list of gods from the Thrones of Glass world, none of them made sense for him. Right. I'm gonna be totally honest. And also, their gods weren't this like power-hungry, feeding off of them type of entity. You know, like some of them actually loved the Fae in that world, like Mala. So it just doesn't seem to fit right to me. The other theory I think we all forget is that he can shift into animals just like the Fae there can do. He shifts into a cat and sits on people's lap. That's right. So I have a feeling he wormed his way into their culture by acting like a shifter Faye, and then got a bunch of them to follow him and then led them out of Aurelia into Midgard. And I don't know that we know who he is, though, or saw him.

SPEAKER_03 42:00

I have a secondary pylon to yours, actually. Okay. So going into exactly the same line of consciousness that you were to like who was the god. I think it's actually Eosphorus because she is the morning star and she's the dawn bringer. Yeah, but she just a little bit evil, though.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

She is evil. I don't know. The gods and thrones of glass just don't feel like a stereo to me. Like none of them do. Yeah. I mean, perhaps.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

Perhaps. Maybe we're just reaching for straws on that one.

SPEAKER_01 42:31

I think it's more likely that he was like on the ground floor, like gathering a following as a shifter, like pretending to be one of them, and was like recruiting an army. Yeah. So like we know that the stags who like came to the rescue, you know, at the end of Thrones of Glass, they were all missing for a really long time. I wonder if a lot of them left with him to go to Midgard.

SPEAKER_03 42:56

Which I mean leads into the question though, why are there only six?

SPEAKER_01 43:00

On Midgard?

SPEAKER_03 43:01

Yeah. Cause some died.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Some died. Some some were in Prithian and then were killed in Prithian. I think, and I think there probably are Astery in other worlds too that we don't know about because we even hear from Adis, you know, at the end of the book, he said, Well, my brothers are fighting in other conflicts in other worlds, which tells me that Asteris are in other worlds too.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Right? And and one of his brothers killed.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Yeah, only Aidis, Thanatos, and Apollyon come to their aid. And they say they literally say, Our other brothers aren't coming for this reason.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Right. Yeah. And a and Apollyon's killed um an Astery before. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Yes. The void. The void. Yep. The main question, too, is why does Reese not know any of this after Selene's download? She says she keys her son into the locks and then it's going to be passed down from generation to generation. Why in the world does Reese not know any of this?

SPEAKER_03 43:51

Right. My question is who stopped telling? Exactly. Who made the decision to stop telling? Who and why? Because it was obviously an act of disagreement. Not like, oh, we forgot.

SPEAKER_01 44:04

No, definitely. It's a hard thing to forget. But we know, Prytheon, there is power grabs and things. Politics going on. I'm assuming at some point, whoever knew this information also knew about the power that she left in the prison and thought it was too dicey, maybe because they live forever. Like maybe they saw their son not turning into a good person, was like, oh, my child's gonna go claim that power and become like a terror in Perthian. I can't tell them this.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

But it's like you have to be keyed in.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

But you have to be keyed in, and that's it. Because they also know it's because it's a prison, you're in charge of the prison. But I'm not gonna tell you the rest of it because you don't deserve to know because I can't trust you. I mean, I could see something along the way happening there because you know, we do know the night court does have a history of some not great people being involved, like in the Hewn City. Like, not all of it is Volaris, like sunshine and rainbows. So maybe it was like someone who more started on the Hewn City vibes and was like, we're not gonna let him know about this. Yeah. That's the only thing I can think of. Yeah. And then by the time it gets to Reese, the information's gone.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

I mean, because also remember, like more is Reese's Reese's cousin, right? And her family That's true. All of all of her family are like a piece of shit. So, like, could you imagine giving a man like her father that kind of power?

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Absolutely not. That knowledge, the knowledge to get that power. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Exactly. So I could see that maybe something like that happened down the line where it's like, no, no, no, no, no. We can't. I'd rather it just die. I can't trust you with this. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Because also after 10,000 years, if no one's come back to claim it, you're probably also thinking, like, well, does this matter anymore? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:49

We don't have to worry about the austerity. They haven't come here. Who are they?

SPEAKER_01 45:53

The Daglin. No? Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah, the Daglin. They could become more like a myth than like something that actually was scary to you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

Yeah. Like it's almost as if it's more of like a lore and not like a little like it's legend, yes.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

So then Bryce, and I think we can all agree she was kind of an idiot here. Uh, after the Celine download, she figures out that below them is this a stere Vesperus. Yep. And what was she thinking waking this motherfucker up? Like, dude, dude, like when Nesta and Azurel get mad at her, I'm like, yeah, you know better than anyone the power of these people. Like, you're an idiot. This is this is one of those frustrating Bryce plot points that I'm just like, yeah, no, you suck.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

I feel like she could be very impulsive sometimes, and that was an impulsive move where it's like, it's like the kid that touches everything. You're like, don't touch that. Like, don't touch a stove, you're gonna get burned. This like that was Bryce in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

It's so true. And she, I do think she gets almost like overly confident in her abilities after the three books. It's like she's that super special starborn princess, and it's like, okay, still in a stereo, still fucking terrifying, and you also still don't know how to kill them yet. So, like, maybe don't wake her up.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

So you're a fetus. Like everyone else here has been alive for a billion years, not you.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Also, and I do think, you know, if it had been in Midgard, would she have done that? I think she kind of takes, because it's in Perithian and she doesn't know or care about that world, a little more like, I don't care, flippantly. Yeah, she takes it flippantly. And I totally agree with Nessa and Azura when they're like, I'm gonna fucking kill you.

unknown 47:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

Also, what do you think? What are you unleashing here? Yeah. Yeah. Also, maybe like talk to us.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Right. They're like, you just told us that these same alien parasite things are like invading your planet and killing people and taking their power. And you're gonna unleash that in our home. That's and you're just gonna wake it up.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Like, yeah, okay. Or if you do want this plan to wake her up to get more information, maybe let's have a game plan and a chat. Like, we are two warriors. Let's have our knives pointed at her. Like, maybe like don't just jump into shit. And I think even Hunt gets frustrated with Bryce later on in the book, too, in the case, and she just like jumps into the water and she just expects everyone to follow. I think you're right. She can be very impulsive and just like everyone's gonna do what I'm doing. And it's like, no, like be a team player. She is very childish.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

It is childish, but also Hunt has lived through some horrific things, and he's like, Your actions are hurting everyone else. Consequences happen when you react this way, and people end up dying over it, people end up tortured over it, and I can't do this again. Like, you want me to give you a thousand percent of my loyalty? Fine, I love you. You're my mate, I love you, but you're asking a lot of me, and you're putting a bunch of people in danger. I think that was his real frustration. Like, after just coming back from watching Baxian chew off her brother's fucking hand, and then she's just like, follow me, guys, and I'm not gonna tell you what I'm doing. It's like, where's the where's the respect? Where's the loyalty? Where's the companionship? Where's the trust?

SPEAKER_03 49:07

Yeah, and I think you hit the nail on the head there. And I think the biggest thing towards that is also the fact that you said the way that she reacts, not just the way that she acts. Because she just she reacts very impulsively.

SPEAKER_01 49:20

Yes, and I also think this is where that whole debate comes in between her and Ailen. Of Ailen also has all these plans that are three steps ahead and whatever, but she actually talks them out with Rowan. You just don't see it on the page. Like, and they have a much more open, trusting relationship that's actually built on trust, whereas she's just very flippantly, yes, like just follow me. Like it'll all work out, even though I actually don't have a really thought it through. Yeah. Just follow my hot pink sneakers.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

Like, open freaking casket. Just yeah. Yeah. What are you doing, Bryce?

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Being a dum dumb. And while all this is happening, our bros, Rune, and Baxian and Hunt are being tortured in the dungeons. And so we find out they're all cut off from their source of magic, but Rune still has his mind speaking abilities, which I find very interesting. Does anyone have any theories? Why?

SPEAKER_03 50:16

The only thing I can think is Starborn. That's the only thing. Like it's a different kind of ancient magic. Yeah. It's not tied to a different world. It's not tied to Midgard. That's the only thing I'm going to do.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

Yeah, so I'm like, I'm curious. Like, would Reese also still have his mind speaking abilities if he was like cuffed in these? Probably. Let's see. Cuff him. She's like sexual and uendo included.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Talk to me, Reese. Find me, baby.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Okay, so also while they're in the dungeons, they discover that Cormac is dead. And I know Run is a good idea. So, yes, Rune thinks, what could they have done to Cormac to render him irrevocably dead? And this is where the theory comes in. A lot of people think that Cormac is not dead. A lot of people. And it's funny to us because I was just having an argument on Instagram with someone like last week about it. And I decided to be like, oh, girl, we gotta let this go. He's dead. I think he is dead. I think story-wise, it is much more beautiful that he ends up with Sophie in the afterlife in terms of now they're together. I think he absolutely knew that he was going to die. He went into that battle knowing he was gonna die. The conversation he had with Rune beforehand was very like, I'm not expecting to come out of this. Yeah. Yeah. Facts. Facts.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

Maybe some people just can't deal with that.

SPEAKER_01 51:42

The theory just comes from it's a classic fantasy thing of like no body, no death. And we never saw the body. He exploded. Because it was exploded.

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Like, yes, memory be a blessing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

There's a fun theory that he is slightly descended from the witches and he performed the yielding. The yielding.

SPEAKER_03 52:02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:04

Which I could see because we do know that they somehow existed in this world. The Thrones of Glass people are in this world. Because also, like, why did Cormac have fire in the first place? He's part starborn. I don't know. The other thing this theory comes from is if he had fire magic like Ailen, like Lydia, his fire wouldn't hurt him. So, like, why would it have caused him to die?

SPEAKER_03 52:26

Because he wanted to die, you guys.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

No, but that's why I think it could be more like a yielding situation.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Wait a second. But he didn't just explode himself. He exploded by explosives.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Yeah. So the explosives are what killed him, not necessarily his fire. His fire was a spark. Unless he yielded. Unless he yielded.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Unless he yielded.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

But what if he didn't yield? What if he wasn't thinking about that? He was just like, I gotta go. Hunt, guys. It's been really.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

I think you could be right. Like it definitely he just lit the explosives near him on fire.

SPEAKER_03 52:56

Yeah. Because he told Therian to run.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Yeah, he did tell Tharian to run.

SPEAKER_03 53:00

Yes. Which is also so explicit. I'm not leaving. You go. Yeah. He didn't say that. Therian's whole thought process behind it is like, I'm never seeing my friend again. And Rigelis even confirms he's like, oh, your little stunt. Well, all you lost was you. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

I also think, you know, CC3 is a really long book for him to still be alive and we don't see him. Yeah, completely agree. Really long. And also, like, this is his revolution, he was mainly a part of. If he was still alive, he'd be back in action. He'd be at that battle with the Asteri. There is just no way he's chilling somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

He's gluing himself back together right now, guys. Okay. He wouldn't have been on the deck tracker.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

He's just chilling somewhere. I just, I get the whole nobody thing, but in this circumstance, from all of the other literary standpoints of like it being a nicer tie for him to end up with Sophie, where was he all of book three? Like, it just doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_03 54:03

It would be a lot of backtracking to figure out that story. And I don't think it moves the story far enough forward for it to actually be a storyline that continues.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Well, and the thing is, like, what would Cormac's purpose even be in CC4? He doesn't end up with Bryce. Like the whole hierarchies of all the Fae get dissolved. So, like one of the theories the girl who I was arguing with about this on the internet, which I try not to do with people, but you know, sometimes you just get sucked in. But she was like, he, but he was like this wealth of starborn magic. He's gonna have to be there to help Bryce and Nesta to put together the Dusk Court in Prithian. And I was like, Well, how is he getting to Prithian? Like, this doesn't make any sense to me.

SPEAKER_03 54:44

Yeah. She also said that he was gonna be a king, and I was like, oh, really interesting. Because they haven't had a king but once. Well, she also said Yeah, she said his prophecy said that he would be king.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

And I was like, no, actually, his prophecy said that him and Bryce's relationship would unite their people, and he just always took it as marriage, but it ended up not being that. And yes, their relationship did end up uniting their people. So, like plotline done. Plotline done. Like they're backpedaled.

SPEAKER_02 55:15

I love the idea that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

And she was like, he's not king.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

This is good.

SPEAKER_03 55:20

This is a closed up and which is also why I think she just laughed at the nobody, no death Cormac question in the interview, because she's just like, what more could I have done to be like you guys?

SPEAKER_01 55:34

He's dead. Yeah. But I also think like she laughed because I think you know, she has to have some of that Rebecca Yarros in her too. If at the end of the day, she just wants to fuck with people. Like, she's probably like, oh, I know he's dead, but I'm gonna laugh because you guys are gonna think that he's not dead. Like Liam.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

We had to get the seal on Liam being actually dead, same thing.

SPEAKER_01 55:55

Yeah. I mean, here's the thing if he's not dead, there better be a really good storyline explaining why he's not. Yeah. And I just don't see it being the future of the CC4 books. And I don't think he's gonna be an Akatar Six. I'm sorry, to the girl I was arguing with on the internet. Like, how is he getting to Prithian? Like, just now. But yeah, I think we all agree at least he's not alive. But while Rune and everyone's in the dungeons, we also learn that the Asteri are having a thousand mystics searching for Bryce. Do we think that we've seen mystics in the other worlds or will we in the future?

SPEAKER_03 56:36

I don't know because I have questions about how the mystics appear agree at all.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

Because mystics are really a very badly are very much a question mark to me because they don't seem familiar from anything else in any of the worlds we visited. Which makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 56:55

Cereals no, I don't think so. These are human bodies. Because those are like an own entity.

SPEAKER_01 57:00

That's true. That's true. Or human-bodied people.

SPEAKER_03 57:05

That I find interesting is the fact that is it Thanatos that tortures the mystic for me?

SPEAKER_02 57:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Because he's a soul eater.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Because he's yeah, so it's like obviously he can see it in some capacity, but what capacity?

SPEAKER_01 57:21

Maybe they came from hell in some way and like mated with Faye, and like these offspring got this weird ability. Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 57:29

And also what are the erratic that allows them to transverse universes? Because Rigelus says, so is it an Asterian power that they utilize for the mystics? Because otherwise, how can it transverse universes?

SPEAKER_01 57:47

Or maybe the Astery like bred them in some way, like because they invented the horn, so they do have this like sense of how like world jumping works. Maybe they like bred this ability into some fee.

SPEAKER_03 57:59

I mean, they did they did mess with eugenics, so possibly.

SPEAKER_01 58:03

So yeah, I'm not sure how the mystics come to be. I hope that's a question that's answered in CC4 and on, because I'm very curious about them.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

Maybe the mystics are something that is just singular to that planet. Like some planets have different species.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

So maybe that one is just I would say yes, but we know from the history of Midgard it was just humans and really the mare on Midgard.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

No shifters, no shifters.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

There was no shifters, there was no Fey, no nothing. It was a very blank slate planet. To the Asteri.

SPEAKER_03 58:35

To the Asteri might be the caveat there because I noticed it three separate times to where there were three separate perspectives on who was on Midgard when the Asteri arrived. So I don't think that everyone was aware of everyone. Definitely not. So yeah, I think the the caveat is that the Asteri were aware of.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

Yeah. But yeah, because they're it the mystics are definitely enslaved by the Asteri. I think the Asteri are definitely involved in however they got this power. Yeah. But I would see it maybe being bred into the Fae, the way that they like got the angels and all of these other like and also now that the core is blown up, did that kill all of the mystics?

SPEAKER_03 59:21

Oh, yikes. Didn't think about that. Because that's where they're being powered from.

SPEAKER_01 59:26

That's where they were like housed or whatever, sleeping. Oh, that's sad. That's really sad. Yikes. You know. So on that note, yeah. So on that note, let's move on to the what who I call the idiot triplets. Ethan and Flynn and Declan. The idiot triplets and Sigreed. They go and try and release Sareon from the Viper Queen. And while they're there, they run into the Hind. She confesses that she's Day Bright. Ethan fights Sigreed and he kills her. I just want to take this is, I feel like, the moment to even talk about the Sigreed storyline. Okay. He kills her. Sigrid meeting. Sigrid. She's first of all a very annoying character. He kills her, he brings her back as a Reaper, and then she becomes a complete, like, dick asshole who like sides with Sabine, even though Sabine killed her father, which caused her to be sold into the mystics in the first place. Like, I don't totally understand the point of this storyline at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:22

Other than all to move Ethan forward.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

Yes. Other than to just keep moving Ethan forward and keep trying to push him into a role he didn't want to take. But could we have done it in a less annoying way?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

But then it wouldn't have been, I guess, as dynamic. I don't know. But it was very frustrating. I was tired of Sigrid, you know, and that whole storyline. Her just constantly being annoying. Like anytime they tried to help her, she was rude. She was annoying. Those little fairy sprite things were just like, oh, girl. And I was like, take her out of here. Let yeah. Leave her with the Viper Queen at this point. Please. Please do.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

And she's left still a Reaper and a live at the end of this book. So I'm like, oh God, are you coming back? Like, I don't want to see you again.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:08

I think she didn't even think about that. No, I'm so annoying.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

Like, I really hope she just goes and disappears into the other and we never see her again because I hate her. Okay, but also No redeeming qualities. No redeeming qualities.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:28

Isn't Hypaxia now in charge of the Reapers? So maybe she can just get rid of all the Reapers because she already made a point to where she was like, Don't you feel bad for them because they're just like existing on a plane wanting for their life. So she switched allegiance. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

She switched to the two houses. Remember, she didn't set it.

unknown 1:01:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

She switched. So she's not under hipaxia's control.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:54

No, she's not. She's under Ethan's control. That means she's under Ethan's control. No, but she's a reaper. First and foremost, she's a reaper.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

She is a reaper, but now Hypaxia can't control her because she did. She switch she switched house allegiances to Sabine before Sabine died.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:09

Can a Reaper do that?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:11

Apparently. That doesn't mean that doesn't mean that. I mean, if a witch can become the head of house and shadow, I don't see why not, because she's not even supposed to be in that house in the first place.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

And we're going, we're going to make a Reaper the freaking high what's it called? Crime, yeah. There are no rules. Unfortunately, we may be single of Sigrid.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:33

I really hope not. But after he kills her, he runs to Jessba, and we finally get Jessba's history that she wasn't really a witch, but she's cursed by Apollyon. And she was a priestess of Parthos. I love Jessica and I love her whole story. Love Pippa. And her magic comes from him accidentally transferring some of his magic to her when he cursed her. So Jessica is completely unique, which is why I think she fits in probably pretty well with the House of Flame and Shadow. Even though she's quo she calls herself a witch, but she's not really. She just had no explanation for what she was. So she was like, this is the label people will be able to digest.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

Yeah, and she couldn't tell them who she was because she was protecting the books. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:15

And she enjoyed being part of the coven for a while until, you know, inevitably, when power becomes too much. Yep. So she moved on.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

We pretty much understand why the Book of Breathings and The Walking Dead would be in the Library of Parthos. Now we know the worlds are very interconnected. The Book of Breathings was actually written by the Asteri, so that really makes sense why there would be a copy of that there. The Walking Dead. So this is kind of comes into the argument of some people like can't decide if Midgard takes place after Thrones of Glass or if it's on the same timeline as Thrones of Glass. So The Walking Dead, I guess the question is how many copies are there of this book? Because if there is only the one copy, it would have to be after Thrones of Glass. Otherwise, that copy of the book wouldn't exist in our in our Thrones of Glass universe. I don't know how special that book is to know if there's only one or not. Seemed pretty special when it was in Thrones of Glass, but and then I love that the reason Apolly curses her is because he thinks the books are magical and he like doesn't believe her that all they hold is knowledge. And I think it has to be just Sarah J. Mass like poking at men and know knowledge being power. And like they it's just the knowledge. It doesn't actually have to have any type of magic, but I definitely think it is a little bit of poke from her, and I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:34

This whole series is so tongue-in-cheek jokes, and I poke it. Poking love it. Yes, I love it. And yeah, I do I think that is what it is. To where it's like Apollyon is this like powerful man who's like, your books have power, don't they? And she's like, Yeah, if you read them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:52

Kind of like romantic as a genre has power if you actually take the chance to read them instead of just brushing them off as fairy smut. Like, oh, and it might actually teach you something weird. Mm-hmm. The Hun rescues Hunt, Rune, and Baxian, and then she dies, and they revive her with Hunt's lightning. Yay. And then boom, we find out she has two sons. So let's discuss this because that's the turning point when Rune finally is like, I guess I'll try and talk to her, and she very rightfully gets pissed. Yeah? Yeah. And I actually kind of really like that. This is the way she wrote that storyline because Lydia is very much like, oh, now that I fit comfortably into this box of being a mother, and there had to be this like ulterior motive for me to be the spy and doing all these terrible things to get close to the hysteria. Now you can stomach talking to me. I can fit in the box now.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

I can fit in the box now for you. And you can stomach me.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

Yes. And I love that this is actually the plot. I mean we take it's like one of those things where it's like the conflict is good. You're like, it's not annoying, it's good, it's juicy. I mean, Obviously, we love that we they ended together. But I think we all think of Rune as being this very like progressive. Progressive, yes, guy. Right. And I think there are a lot of men in our lives who consider themselves that, but they've been trained for so long in roles of sexism and you know how women should act patriarchy and patriarchy. That even these men who think that they are progressive, they still fall into these traps. And then writes, yeets out of Perithian. And she purposely lands with the Autumn King. And I think it maybe it's like leftover annoyance from the way she treated Azriel and Nesta, but I kind of was annoyed with the way she even treated the Autumn King. And he's an asshole who deserves it. And I still found her annoying during these scenes. I don't know about you guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:51

I mean, on the one hand, I liked that she was kind of coming in and being like, no, no. If we're balancing questions, then I already answered one of yours and now you get to answer one of mine. But then that childish thing comes into play to where she's like, I don't want to play this game anymore. I'm not answering anything else. And like I agree with you. Like, I think if she's going on this trajectory that she wants to go on, she needs to be more mature about it. And she wasn't. She was like woo-hoo for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

Watching a teenager argue with their parents instead of like a hundred percent badass female going up against like the patriarchy.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:30

It was giving daddy issues, but not in a good way.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

Yeah. And it was one of those things where you're reading her, you're like, I hate the Autumn King, but why do I feel bad for him right now? Because she's being such a dipshit. Like, don't let me feel bad for him. Like, he's a dipshit. It was an interesting little part of the book.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:50

Also, again, one of those mirror things that happened, she pushed Micah into the bathroom and locked it. She pushed her daddy into a closet and locked it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

Loved it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:01

I love that that's her solution for so many things.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

I'm just gonna lock you in a tight room. I just wish he would have stayed there longer. I'm just annoyed that he got out too early.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:11

I'm like, oh, he got out when he needed to.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:14

He got it out when he needed to. He got the end he deserved.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:17

Yeah. And then finally, she yeets then to the depth charger. We're finally all on the same side of the story, except for Ethan. And they all head to Avalon. Even Therian, because he's dumb. And of course, Therian has to get dumber because when they get there, they gain another party member, Sophia Flynn, and he's just like, yeah, I'll marry her. I will say the setup of this, I like I can you can feel the redemption arc for Therian coming with it. Yes. Yeah. And that's the only thing about his character right now that I'm excited about for CC4 is I actually can't. It has to be a forced proximity, like arranged marriage trope type of plot line between them. Like I do not accept any other, I do not accept any other answer than like them actually falling in love.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:05

So and I can't the whole River Queen thing. Well, then we'll just get a divorce and then I'll be with you. And she was like, the fuck you will.

unknown 1:09:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:17

Yeah, that pissed me off when he said that. I was like, have you learned absolutely nothing? Nothing. Like, shut your mouth and let the women talk.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:28

And also, I love that she's setting Zathya up to be so strong. Yes. Like we understand that she holds power. And not in like a I'm magical way, but she's like, don't fuck with me. I've had enough people fucking with me. And I think that's what Sarian needs. And I think that's political.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

And she gets the politics.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:49

And she does it flawlessly.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:51

And I love the tie-in that at first when you meet her too, that Flynn is like, oh, my dipshit little sister, which is it's a lot of the way that like people view Bryce. And I think that's why Bryce and Saphia immediately get along. Is she like, oh, your brother underestimates you. Yep. And I kind of love it. I can't wait to get more of her.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:11

She's like, Bryce is my queen.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:13

And I was like, you go, girl. And I do love her starting to already question Bryce in these next chapters where she's like, What are you gonna do with the Fae? You seem to really hate us. So, like, what's your game plan? Because we don't all suck. Like, yeah. And I yeah, and I really love that even Hunt is like disappointed in her answers. It's like you've been giving this with great power, becomes great responsibility. Like, if you want to change the world, it has to be on you to change it. You can't just destroy the system and then just be like free for all.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:44

Done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:45

Like if you want it to change, you have to change it yourself. So I really I hope we see more of Bryce and Sathya together in CC4, which I think we would.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:53

Right. But is Sathy gonna return with Colin? That's the question. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

I think that's just gonna I think that's gonna be like the like hitch in the Theryan Sathya love story of that's their thing of like figuring out, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:08

Yeah, obligation to Colin because she feels uh she feels responsibility for where he landed with the uh Viper Queen. Like she feels some some level of responsibility for him. So I mean that's why she had to go back. Not also because it was her friend, but I think she felt responsible more than friend. I'm wondering.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was her dad that basically made him be where he is.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:31

I feel like it was like her teen year crush, you know? Young love. And uh, and I also hope that we get to see her dad get his ass kicked. Yeah. And I love that. I love that. I need some redemption.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:43

During their cave exploration, they find out Helena built it all, and she built her telephone to hell, and they talk to Adis and Apollyon and Danatos. And they do confirm that hell is where our beloved dead come to rest. So to me, it doesn't sound like the Valg world. I know we've debated a lot about if those two worlds could be the same, but the Valg don't seem to come from a world of the dead. I agree. Yeah, when I think of hell, it actually reminds me of like Dante's Inferno, like the levels and everything is like very mirrored. Yeah. Um, and he even says here that that's where the beloved dead come to rest. So, but does that also mean that all these like people in the bone quarter, are they supposed to be in hell and they're like stuck in this like horrible, like in-between is kind of what it sounds like.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:31

Or, and this kind of hurts my brain because I don't love the whole like multi-platform life uh dimensional thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

It hurts everyone's brains.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:40

But like, so I think the language here is pretty specific too, because he says this is where our dead come to rest. So is it the dead of hell? Is there a different level of hell that has like life beings or is this world connected to their world irrevocably into where these souls go into hell as the second life?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:07

Not I always I thought that in the in the end, when Bryce dies, Jesu meets her there, they're in a different place. And she even mentions this is the place where where the dead are supposed to go, and this is where that's hell met.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

Is that hell?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:21

How beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:22

I think that's hell.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:23

But that's what I'm saying. Is it again like what you're saying with the first ring of hell at the purgatory?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:31

Yeah, it's like purgatory before you actually like walk through the door to the final gate.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:35

Because even Ada says, like, this is just the portion that we're allowing you to see. Uh-huh. We have everything that makes you feel comfortable and happy and like everything about your life that made it your life, you know. Interesting. So maybe hell, that's why they have such a fight in this game, is because the two worlds are irrevocably connected.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:00

I think so too. But I think it's not just Midgard. I think they're connected to a lot of worlds.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Right? Because the brothers are off fighting the brothers are off fighting in other worlds.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:10

Uh no, I think they're the underworld for all of these universes.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:14

Remember, we kind of think that one of the brothers is is over in Thanatos, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:19

Is Thanatos in Prithian?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:21

Yeah. And if Fury's his daughter, then that means that uh hunt and fury are related.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:28

Yeah. True. In a weird way. Because he's made. Yeah. But I do think that was a spin-off. Like, it's like if I'm picturing like this multiverse and there's all these different planets floating around, and hell's a planet, like to me, it's like they're the dead realm for all of the other planets in this little multiverse. It's like kind of how I'm picturing it. Yeah. And like maybe each ring, you know, guarded by each of these brothers is for different types of beings and creatures that come from all these different worlds.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:58

Like, you know, the Faye aren't gonna recognize your brothers are helping with the other fight with the other hysteria.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:04

Yeah, exactly. Well, that's just my two cents on that.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:08

No, I yeah. I mean, it makes sense. It makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:12

The other cool, the other cool part about this scene is I feel like all of the brothers feel very normal. Yeah, and very like we're in our world, and like this is who we are. Like you see, our persona, but like this is who we are. He's like, I just like sitting here with my dogs. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:30

But we see that Thanatos is much more normal in this whole scene. So, like, it definitely, because I think earlier when we theorized about it, we were like, well, he seems kind of evil and demented. Could he be the same night court lord? And in this scene, it is much more like, well, maybe he could be, or related like in some way, whether he's like dreaming or whatever is happening.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:49

Tying that to what you're saying, though, to uh going back to the mystics really fast. I know, I'm sorry. Projecting their minds, projecting their minds. Maybe they are tied in with the Assyrian magic, and that's why they torture the mystics.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:02

Mm-hmm. And maybe like that power comes from Thanatos because he has that ability as a soul, like guider, eater, whatever he is. He can move his soul from one world to another by like projecting his mind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:16

So he seeks out the mystics. He seeks out the mystics and tortures them because they're part of the Asterie.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:22

Yes. And that's also how he gets from the night court to hell, is because he can mind project. Okay. Woo! Anyways, we went down a rabbit hole there. I do love in this scene, though, they talk about when they made Hunt essentially. Yeah. And I think the Hunt kind of obviously gave pause of like, my mother, though, was a woman. And did you rape my mother? Basically, was like the insinuation. And it just was like, we guard nightmares, we're not monsters. And I really loved just that line. But it but it was just like it's so true. Like you think of us as these like with the demons and everything of hell being this like evil place, but we're not, we're not. That's a different type of monster. Like, and we would never do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:12

Yeah. Also, Hun's maturity level, in contrast to Bryce's maturity level on all of this journey is insane because he was focusing on the mission. He's like, I want to know these details. Let's talk about all of what's happening and where we're going and what's going to happen. And then at the very end, he's like, My mom. Yeah. Question mark. And they're just like, no, no, that's not how it was. And we also get the tidbit about the person who was helping them that was working with the Asteri, which I think is there. Yeah, which is an important detail that for a very long time, even before Ophian, there were people trying to infiltrate the Asteri and get them out.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:58

Yeah. Well, and then we find they finally head back to the caves. They confront the two awesome kings and kill them. Yay.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:04

Bam!

SPEAKER_01 1:18:05

And she frees Avalon, et cetera, et cetera. She says, maybe she also woke up the land around the prison in Prithian. I think she absolutely did because she also took the power there and freed the land. So once again, you have to read this book because that means when we jump into Avatar 6, everyone's gonna be like, what's happening at the prison? All my prisoners are getting out. It's a land of beauty and plenty now. Maybe we'll see some Pegasus. I certainly hope so. And then Ethan and Hipaxi are doing their own journey and they meet up with Bryce after she frees Avalon. And Ethan keeps being like, I fucked up, I fucked up, listen to woe is me. And everyone else is just like, bro, we don't care. We're fighting a war. Like, who cares about Sagrid? We're fighting a fucking war against the Asteri. And I could not agree with him more. I'm just like, shut the fuck up, Ethan. Yeah. Ethan is really selfish. So they all go their separate ways. And this is interesting that, like, almost immediately hypaxia finds the cure for the parasite in the water. Yeah. I think that was just like a plot point convenience thing because it was like she literally looked at it for five minutes. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:18

Well, and she does try and create an excuse to where she's like, Oh, well, I used the last serum from the previous book. Right. To where it's like, I already had Bryce's thing for the synth. Showed it a blueprint. So yeah. She's like, I kind of had the building blocks already to build this. So I just utilize this. And I'm like, wow, you're really brilliant. And also kind of terrible at being a necromancer.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:45

Yeah. Yes. I mean girl. Just stop chatting. And queen. Terrible at being a queen too. I'm excited for her redemption arc. I feel like she needs one. Yeah. Like she like she doesn't annoy me in any way, but she just struggles.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:57

She just feels very timid to me. Where I'm like, get it, make a decision, get it together, be decisive, and like that. And that was her whole issue with being a queen, too, when she was queen of the witches. It was like, you just didn't know how to lead. You didn't know how to rule. You you were too timid about everything, questioning everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:14

But hey, maybe her arc and CC4 is gonna like give us history of the witches from Thrones of Glass, et cetera, et cetera. And her like coming into her own and her power and learning her history. I would love that. Yeah. Yeah. So Ethan goes to the den. He's gonna be all like, listen, we're drinking a parasite, blah blah. And of course, Sagreeds there with Sabine because they both fucking suck. And you know, he does finally snap and kill Sabine. And he takes the Fender sword and shatters it between his teeth. So I think the whole series, I think everyone in this world assumes that sword is like some kind of magical sword, but I don't think it could only wield.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:54

I don't think it is. I think it held more like emotional weight than anything. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:59

Agree. And I'm wondering if it was Fenries's. Yes. But it's like we know from Thrones of Glass, Fenries' sword was nothing special. It was just a sword. But I could see it like if he it was passed down from generation to generation, that they would think it's something special from their homeland that had more magic. I saw yesterday someone commenting on our podcast clip post when we're talking about the whole Fen Deer Fen Reese crossover. And they thought, like, is Fen Reese the one who wrote the book that Danica found about the heritage, which is why he's not actually in it, which I thought was like an interesting little spectrum. Yeah. I don't hate it. I like it. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:39

I don't either.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:40

Yeah. I can't really find anything wrong with it. I mean, we don't know enough about it to actually be like, nope, not that. But like, I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

I like it too. And I'm like, that's why he's not in it, is because he was the one writing it about his like children or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:53

Yeah, it probably left off on him. He's like, well, I mean, I can't say further.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

Well, and while all that's happening, Bryce gives Nesta her parents. Oh, we have issues. We have to leave Cooper. Yep. We all were in our group text just being like, I can't believe she fucking leaves Cooper. I would murder her.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:12

Murder.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:13

Murder.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:14

The fact that she left Cooper behind, it just feels very much like you're not that important to me. But my parents are really important to me. And it's gross. And I know that later on they try to make it sound like she has like this relationship with him. You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:29

Well, she also has a reason of like my parents would have thought it was suspicious if I needed him to come. And I'm just like, would no would they?

SPEAKER_03 1:22:38

Because it's just like, hey guys, I need you guys to come with me. And they would be like, cool, yeah, great. And we need to not even talk about the fact that Cooper's already gone through this whole traumatic bullshit. She's supposed to be trusting this family. And then Bryce is just like, hey, so I'm just gonna leave you here with my friends, and like you're gonna be fine. I might not be able to bring my parents back to you, even though I like did all this paperwork to make it them your like guardian. Mom and dad. Like, no, I hate it.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:09

I hate it. I hate it. I don't like it at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:11

I don't either. She was wrong. I'll fight her the stage. Go.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:14

Yeah, I think this is like one of the only things that happens in any of her books where I'm like, I don't even see why you did this, why this made sense to you. You're a mother too. Like, I don't get this. It feels a little like plot convenience, which sucks. So while she's doing that, hipaxia and Ethan go visit the Under King, and we found out he is from Aurelia, which is the Thrones of Glass universe. What is he? So the theory is that he's a barrow white because he also says that in that land he lived in caves and barrows. Um which is interesting because when we see the barrow whites, I did not really envision them being like that smart or sentient, but it kind of makes sense. Like they make you live nightmares. He's kind of like the king of nightmare realm. Or I guess he could be like a Valg. Yeah, but like it's like, is he? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:07

But is he?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:07

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. He says he's birthed from the void.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:12

So is he with like Thanatos? Like, is he what if Thanatos is?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:16

Which like creations feels a little more barrow-whitey to me of like nightmares, void, like whatever. Cause like to me, also it's very hard to kill the Valg, like if they're like actually of import. Like, remember they had to heal it out of um King, whatever his name is. Um Yeah, so I just don't see them being able to like freeze him and slice him with a sword and being done. Like if he was truly a Valg. But it's like also, you know, there's obviously all these theories around Caltain being like these skeletals. Like yeah, like being Briaxis or being like the serial, there's also a big theory that she's a serial. I'm saying no to that one. Yeah. So it's like, but I don't want her to be the under king. Like that, he's not nice. So like I believe he's created like an explanation to me. The only explanation to me is that he was a bear white. Okay. Yeah. Because if he truly, if he truly came from Aurelia Aurelia and like slid in with the Faye coming through, that's the only thing that makes sense to me. Sure. And maybe they're just more sentient and smart than we give them credit for. This one had a plan. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:25

Just like Rygilis with the plans.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:27

Exactly. But like to me, it's like he even says he lived in caves and barrows. That has to be like the biggest tip-off of like sure barrow white barrows. And maybe, maybe because you know, Rygilis like was big in this world in some way, he gave him like extra powers or something when he got when he got to Mid-Card and discovered him, was like, I'm gonna put you in charge of this realm for some extra powers. But Ethan gives Perry the antidote at back at the den, and he kind of talks about how it almost doesn't stick. And he mentions it a few times that like she smells the same.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:03

I think she didn't take it. I don't think she didn't take it. I think she chose not to take it because maybe she was afraid of what she would become. Maybe she interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:14

Because we never find out why or like where that went. Yeah. And I I think we'll learn more about her in the next book because I believe that she is meant to be with Ethan. I think they're mates. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:26

And that's why the smell. Oh, maybe but maybe she did take it, and the reason she smells the same is because it's his mate.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:33

Because they're mates. Exactly. Yeah. I thought that also. I had I I was kind of flipping because I was like, I think she's his mate, which is why he can smell her and she smells a certain way to him. But I also thought maybe she didn't take it because it's her personality.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:47

But I think it's always written like she didn't take it, but I think she did because she does seem to have more power.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:54

Mm-hmm. So maybe it's a mate, I think the mates.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:58

I think it's the mate that I think you're right. And he just doesn't see, he doesn't understand what he's smelling and why it's not changing.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:14

He didn't like that conversation happening. There was some jealousy, he couldn't explain why he felt that way. But it's like, yes, you can, you're just dumb.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:22

Yeah, or possibly it could also be one of those things to where it's like the indicator that maybe she's had more of the parasite or something. Maybe it didn't last on her.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:32

Well, that was my original thought was like it was something nefarious of like, oh, what's going on here that it's not working on her? But I think you're right, it actually probably is more mate vibes. I think it's mate. I I'm on board with that. So then they all run into war. And there's a battle time, it's battle time. Rune and Lydia go rescue her sons. He shoots her, but he also admits that she is his mate. Woo! And And we find out that Lydia does actually have firepower magic. And she named her son after Brennan from Aurelia. So yes, like obviously she is from the Thrones of Glass universe. Because when I posted our podcast clip of us talking about it, you know, last episode, people were like, well, duh, she says like she's descended from Brennan. And I'm like, that's not really what we're talking about. We're talking like it's so obvious she's from Aurelia. We're talking about is she descended from Ailen, which is absolutely a theory. She doesn't say she's descended from Ailen, which to me, the ring is like really the suggestion of that relationship. I agree. Um I did see someone in a theory.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:41

Which gives back to a Brandon.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:43

Yes, is that like, you know, they found her ring in that cave. So maybe it's like another ring from that same cave or something that Lydia got, but I just feel like it's too specific for it to be that big.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:55

I agree. And the fire. And that's how she was protecting Satya in the caves.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:00

Like, yeah. And she was like, no one noticed me. But yeah, I think she's major Ailen vibes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:06

Always wondering about it.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:08

She's a deer shifter.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:09

How did how did a deer shifter get flames? That's that's the question. Who's who is in your lineage? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:16

And it has to be Ailen, Mala Firebringer. Like, come on, fire breathing bitch queen. Like, which I know Ailen gets it.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:24

She also has blonde hair.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:25

The same source. So, like, yes, they could be on different branches, you know, the same way. Friends line. Yeah, same way Aileen and Dorian are technically related. But it's like the ring says it all to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:38

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. It's a family, it's a direct to where it was like it's an heirloom.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:45

Yep. Then Bryce kicks a mystery ass, but she dies in the process. And just like Reese and Akawar, she's brought back to life, but via Jessica this time. Jessica sacrifice. Yeah. I love that she was like, she was like, I was waiting for the right moment. She was tired. And Apollon was there. She was like, fuck you, bitch. And I also love that she's just like, it's always so hard to find a good assistant. I gotta, I gotta bring this one back to life. So Bryce goes and retrieves her parents from Nesta, and she gives Nessa the star sword and truth teller and tells her to go figure out why she had an eight-pointed star on her back, which this is the biggest to me theory into Avatar Six of what Akatar Six is going to be about. I know we all talked about, everyone thinks it's gonna be obviously about Azrael and Elaine, but we talked about how we really think it's gonna be a Nesta story arc because Nesta's only had one book. And I think this is right here what is absolutely telling me that. Yeah. I think it's going to be a huge Nesta arc, along with Azrael and Elaine and other things. I think it's be written more like Thrones of Glass and Crescent City, where it's less like here's one story. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:56

Have you guys seen the emoji theory?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:58

Emoji theory, no, please do share.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:00

Yeah. So apparently, every single book, SJM pairs emojis whenever she does teasers. And so, and so with this one, she did music notes. And I'm like, well, clearly it's Nesta. It's gotta be. It's gotta be. Because that's Nesta.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:19

It's Nesta. It's also just like where we've left off. It is. Like, like in terms of true story, so there are bonus chapters we get of Azrael and Elaine, but they're bonus chapters, and a lot of authors they tend not to lead off of bonus content too much because not everyone does read them. So, like, yes, I think it gives us insight into Azrael and Elaine in their relationship. But to me, this is full on in a book, like ready to go. Like, this is a gonna be a big chunk of Avatar Six and Seven and Eight.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:51

I feel like it's still gonna be about like Elaine because we have Lucian, and that is also in the book, and it's brought up many times where he comes to visit her, she doesn't want to see him. It's awkward, they're the same room together. Like, there's no resolution there. There needs to be resolution, and I feel like it's coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:05

I think just people forget about Nesta. Like, I think there's so much talk about this being an Azrael, Elaine, or I'm like, I forget about Elaine if I'm being honest, you guys. Like, yeah, she's everyone is so convinced that that is gonna be the main point of this book. And I'm like, I don't know. I think it's actually gonna be more about Nesta, and that Azrael and Elaine are gonna be more of like the the saucy scribes are calling it, you guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:30

It's gonna be about Nesta.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:31

Yes, yep. I mean, I think it's like gonna be all of those things, but I think people in their, you know, ideas about what it's gonna be about, they kind of forget about that Nesta still has this huge story arc that needs to be also figured out.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:44

That was also built upon in CC3 that we're discussing now, because it's like notating the warrior aspect, it's notating this literal journey. The fact that clearly, like she and Azreel are like a little teeny team, you know what I mean? Yeah, like all of the cosmic breadcrumbs are there that it's going to be the Nesta arc.

SPEAKER_01 1:33:05

And I bet because it is Nesta, Nesta, and Azrael, I bet they're gonna go on the starborn journey together because he clearly is also somewhat starborn. And it's gonna be like a self-discovery for him and for her. And while he's discovering himself, we're gonna get probably an Elaine love story as well, and like Lucian's side character story. Like, I think it's gonna be all of that. Yes. We start to wrap up this story. Therion goes in search of his wife who ran off to rescue her high school boyfriend, and he randomly runs into Ariadne, like the dragon, the dragon lady, and it's literally just like, oh, hey girl, and then we never like that's it. Like, that's end of book. And I'm just like, why once again? Like, she clearly must be important for a CC4 because she keeps just like randomly popping up in the story. But I'm also like, can we get more? Because like right now, I'm just like, why do you exist? Yeah, I'm gonna find out.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:59

I feel like they she also placed her there in the end because he worried about her, right? He felt responsible for her dis her disappearance because he told her don't yeah, don't kill him. And she didn't want to fight Ethan. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I I think that was like a little bit of a band-aid. I'll call it a band-aid for us.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:18

Maybe she takes down the viper queen.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:21

You know what? I hope that happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:23

Maybe I hope that happens. But also, like, here's the thing is I don't hate the Viper Queen. Like no, neither.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:28

I think it's a balance, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:31

It is, but I also don't think she's inherently like evil. I think her f getting Ethan to fight Sagreed was actually positive. I think they took it all, they took it all as negative, but I think the Viper Queen was like, you're putting all your money on this random chick you don't know who's actually gonna be a terrible leader. You haven't even vet her. You you are the leader of the wolves. Kill this bitch. And he like she like forced Ethan into this path he didn't want to take. And I think she did it knowingly and on purpose. Like, I don't think it was just for shits and giggles.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:03

No, I think it's to show Sigrid's um Sigrid's uh true personality or true yeah, yeah, who she character, who she actually is, because they have her so timid and so scared and so everything, but it's like no no no, she just will kill you and she doesn't care.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:18

And like is that the person who rescued her, the person who rescued her, she's gonna kill. That's the type of person she is. And I think that's what she was trying the viper queen was trying to expose. Like, I don't think of the viper queen as like this evil person we need to get rid of. I think it's a good one.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:32

She's opportunistic, yeah, she is, but like I love the meat situation, but like I don't dislike the Viper Queen. Because every single time she's been trying to keep the balance correct. Cause even with like the selling of the Synth and Hunt situation, it's she is the checks and balances of the city almost. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:56

I agree. And then lastly, Bryce abolishes the Faye hierarchies and she promotes democracy and the Pegasus come back and everyone begins to live happily ever ever after until Sarah J. Mass picks up her pens and destroys them all in CC4, which we can't wait for.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:12

And calling and freaking out about the Pegasus was truly just one of my favorite things of this entire series. Absolutely. Big strong man. It's like, I I need you to come here now. They're flying.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:32

Yeah, I love Baxian.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:34

So do I. I'm really baxian.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:37

I'm really curious about where his storyline is gonna go because obviously he's lost his mate. Like, are we gonna get a love story? Yeah, are we gonna get a second chance love story? We don't see those that often in romanticy. It's usually like a room a romance novel trope. Yeah. So I think it'd be really fun if she played with that trope.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:56

I mean, look, I come from like the back streets of like romanticy. It definitely is a trope for second chance mates. You just don't see it that often in like the more popular books. But I do want him to have a second chance mate. I feel like he deserves it. I mean, he chewed off Rune's hand. Yeah. He he told huh, I got you, bro. You don't gotta do this. That's your brother. He totally deserves it.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:20

Yeah, he he was helping and helping and helping, whether or not anybody wanted to, wanted him to, or asked him to, or even gave him any credit for. He was helping.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:32

Yeah, I love him too. And that wraps up our threads of theory for Crescent City, House of Flame and Shadow. With the theories laid out and the threads traced, it's time to step back from the analysis and let ourselves feel this book for what it is, which means it's time for the roses segment where we discuss the moments that hit hardest, lingered longest, and reminded us why this story hurts so good. Let's hold court.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:55

All right, what are your roses for CC3? Um, definitely the continuation of the crossover. Yes, yes. Of Alan coming back to life. Yeah. Yes. Um I mean the hysteria being gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:12

Question mark. Question mark. I love the Lydia and Rune storyline in general. I wish we got more of it, and I hope we get more of it in CC4. Yeah. It felt not enough to me. I loved it so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:28

I it was very rocky and tumultuous for this story.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:32

So I that that's a that's a rose for me too. Lydia and Rune, another rose, and this is it may not be a popular one, but uh Darien and um Sapia. I w I I want to know. I just I want to know. I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:46

That's a but that's my bud.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:49

Yeah, Sapia's a bud for me as well. Yeah, okay. I'll move that to Bud. I agree. That's a bud. But yeah, Lydia and Rune were my favorite in this whole thing, and obviously the crossover, like duh, because that just gave us more stuff to build on. Like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:03

The whole Perthean section, I was just like, hum, hum, hum, yeah, bubbling. Like holding my breath every sentence. Just like, give me more. I wish Reese Sand had been in it more, but I know his era has ended of being like the main character, but I'm still like, give me more Reese Sand, please. Serving mom and dad. Yeah. At the end, he's like, oh, Reese is an old softie. He's just an overprotective dad. And I'm like, yeah, he is.

unknown 1:39:27

Yeah, he is.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:29

Yeah, he's done. I can't wait to see overprotective daddy. He's nail you to the bed.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:34

I know. Can't wait. He's an overprotective daddy. He'll nail you to the bedpost.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:40

There is nothing more attractive than like, at least to me, maybe it's because I have kids, is like a man being a good dad around your kid is just like completely.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:51

Like 100% so attractive.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:54

Yeah. Yeah. Can't wait to see it on Reese. What about our Thorns? Bryce Man. I struggle with her in this book a lot. Like, and I know a lot of the fandom does, which is why I think CC3 out of the three series is a lot of the least favorite for people. And I think it's because of CC3, because she gets so annoying in this book. Like, even by the end, at least for me, I'm like over her antics. I'm like, okay, you fall them into the black hole. Okay. Like you hate the Faye, we get it. We exactly. You hate the Fae, we get it. They have no redeeming qualities. Like, she just it's just like what we talked about. Except for this one, this one, this one. Immature.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:34

You know?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:34

Yeah. She's immature. And to me, she doesn't grow enough in this book to not like get past that. So maybe we just need CC4 for me to like her again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:46

Mine is definitely Bryce being a dick through a lot of this. And also the Ethan storyline.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:52

Like Ethan. Ethan, my man. You gotta make a choice.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:59

Yes. And and Therian going to the meat market and joining forces with the like come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:04

The thing is, but see, I understand that way. I understand it too. The Therian storyline annoys me way less because I I can almost see, I can see the arc forming. You know what I mean? Yes. Of like someone going through a hard time, making all the wrong decisions, and he's gonna come out of it at the end. And out of choices. Yes, and he's out of choices. Ethan is privileged. Ethan is a privileged little wolf pup who just keeps making wrong decision after wrong decision and just trying to fix it all the wrong way instead of asking anyone for their opinion or help. Like I'm just literally I'm gonna kill you mostly.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:42

I love that Jessaba calls him pup all the time. Jessica's like, okay. Because he is like, you dumbass pup. Get over here. Shove these books for me.

unknown 1:41:51

I hate him.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:52

He's gonna need some serious redemption arc to like him.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:55

Yeah, that was a thorn for me, also. That whole Sigrid hymn line, like I was done. I was done. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that leads us into our trims.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:05

The Sigrid is my trim.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:07

Yeah. Oh, Sigrid definitely. And Ariadne. I'm just like, I get that you're dropping these broadcrumbs that clearly she's important, but like I need more information to care. Yeah. Yeah. Just a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:19

A little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:19

A little bit more. I don't get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:22

Yeah. No, I I I understand that completely. Yeah. Because we don't know enough about her to, I mean, in the last book, we left off with uh, okay, clearly you're an important character, but you were an asshole, but maybe it's because you were hurt. And then in this book, we still don't know a lot about you, but you're warming up a little bit, but you disappear through 98% of the book. Yeah. 98%.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:45

We had more about Saphia than Ariadne.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:48

For sure. Yeah. And I just am like, what is your purpose in this story? Like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:54

Yeah, when she when she was like sold, I was like, oh, that's the end. And then at the end, Darien's like, oh hey.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:01

Like literally, if she, if you took her out of the whole series, almost nothing would change. And if she had just disappeared, you would also have forgotten about her.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:10

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:11

So like put ointment on him. And I feel like if she's supposed to be very important, she should be a bud for our next book, not a trim. Yeah. Yeah. So I just feel like it was really underdeveloped.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:23

My other trim is Cooper being left. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:26

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:27

He should have been with them. There was no reason for him to not.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:30

I also like didn't just didn't love the whole black hole fix thing at the end. It just felt where he like follows her into the black hole and like gets her. It all just yeah, it all just felt kind of like silly.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:45

Beard of his ex guides him to his mate. She's like, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:50

I almost feel like it would have been better if she had just like killed them all with a star sword and called it a day. Like it just felt a little like, okay, did did this was this the way we wanted to do this? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:01

The resurrection trope. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:04

Because she already did it with Reese, so it was kind of like, was this necessary? Yeah, I get that. Yeah. Let's talk about buds though. I feel like we have a lot. I I mean, I really hope there's more like actual crossover. I hope for some reason Bryce uses the horn on her back and becomes better friends with Nesta, please. Um I would love that. I would absolutely love that. I don't know if that's really gonna happen. But I'm actually I'm also really excited about Therion, which is really a weird thing to think at the end. Between book one and book three, who would have thought? Who would have thought that we wanted to be able to do that? Ethan, I could say goodbye to Therion. I'm excited to see where the storylines are.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:42

Well, I mean, Ethan annoys me, but I'm kind of hoping that maybe she'll grow him up a little bit and that something will happen with him and Perry. Because also, we're remember Perry's sister was Amelie. And she even underhandedly like she said, Oh yeah, like bow down. I I recognize he has the prime. But then when they got scared and she bounced with everyone as kind of like the leader, oh, I'm just escorting them, making sure that they're protected. Bitch, she wants his role so bad you could taste it. But wait and see, her sister's gonna end up Ethan's mate. I I'm calling it right now, they're gonna be in-laws, and she's gonna have to suck it up, soldier.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:25

I mean, but that's the interesting thing too, because like as a as one of my buds, I'm interested to see where the Perry storyline goes. But also, I am more than willing to let go of Ethan. More than Perry becomes a problem. I do actually think that they're mates, but also I can't tell you how disinterested in the Ethan storyline I am.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:48

So disinterested. Whereas like the Thereon one, I'm like excited for with Sathia. Saying, ooh, this feels like it's gonna get good.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:55

I'm big into the Sathia storyline.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:57

Okay, but but do you think that it's because we love Sathya more than we love Thereon?

SPEAKER_01 1:46:01

No, I've always loved Therian more. I always I've always liked Thereon more than Ethan.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:06

Well, no, yes, obviously. But but I'm saying is the reason why we're so interested in seeing what's gonna happen with Thereon is because we love Sathya more than we love Therian, because she kind of presented herself as like like this like silenced badass woman.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:21

And we want to see her develop. I don't think so. I think it's both because I've always even though Therian definitely annoys me sometimes, I've always been really interested in his character.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:30

And also I get where he's coming from.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:32

Yeah, exactly. So I think it's both. I'm also excited about Hypaxia. Like, I want to see her get a redemption arc with Celeste Celestina. Like, I kind of hope that's like our first like big gay relationship that we see in the universes. That's like not just like a side note. Um, that would be great.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:50

I'm also interested in the history of Hypaxia. I would like to know more about the witches, past and the witches and all of that. Yep, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:59

And also a little bit more about Lydia and uh her her relationship with Hypaxia and their mother.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:05

Yeah, why was I want to see some sister love, big, big, some sister love there. Yeah, agree. Now they'll have the time. Yeah. I'm also super interested in like Guaydian going home and where that goes, but I think that's gonna be an Actar. Still a bud, though. Still a bud, yes. Uh the Pegasus. I'm very excited about the Pegasus. I love the Pegasus.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:28

I really hope we see a lot of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:30

More Baxian, please. I love him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:33

I really want to know where Baxian's storyline is going. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Give me some second chance love trope, ma'am. How are we feeling? Yeah. Feeling good. Feeling good, feeling great. And that brings us to the end of our House of Flame and Shadow deep dive somehow. I don't know about you, but I'm still not over half of what just happened. And I'm absolutely frothing at the mouth for Akatar 6 in October.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:57

Yes. Thank you guys so much for coming along for this chaotic theory-field ride with us. We seriously love getting to scream about these books with you every month. And thank you to the Saucy Scribes for letting this book bestie guest host on the pod. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:14

Thank you for being here. Saved our day. Yeah. And scribes, if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to follow the podcast, leave us a rating, and write a review. It really helps more book besties find us and join the chaos.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:30

But don't go too far because next up we're diving into Direbound. And Ashley is officially back to break it all down with us. It's darker, it's sharper, and we already have all of the theories. We'll see you in the next one. Saucy scribes. Saucy scribes out.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:52

Love you guys.