Rites of the Starling: The Cost of Destiny (Deep Dive)

🚨 SPOILERS AHEAD for Rites of the Starling! 🚨

We thought we were getting answers... instead we got emotional damage.

This month, we're diving into Rites of the Starling and unpacking everything! 

From Caspia's heartbreaking journey and Odessa's family revelations to the truth about the Crux, the orbits, and the prophecy that changes everything. 

We're talking theories, lore, shocking twists, and the ending that had us immediately reaching for Book 3.

Oh, and yes... we're still recovering from Caspia and Andreas.

So pour yourself a cocktail (you're going to need it), and join us as we break down one of the most emotionally devastating fantasy reads we've covered yet.

As always Scribes, protect your peace, check your triggers, and take care of yourself first.

Lets get into it!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the Saucy Scribes Podcast. I'm Alex, your resident book psycho. I'm Ashley, your crystal loving cat lady.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

And I'm Allie, your aspiring author. Today we are returning to the treacherous world of Kalandra in Rights of the Starling, the highly anticipated sequel to Shield of Sparrows by Devany Perry. The next chapter drops us right back into a realm of dangerous magic, magical beasts, and impossible choices, where the consequences of the past are finally coming due.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

And because some stories are best unpacked with a drink in hand, on this podcast we pair great books with even better cocktails. Today we're giving you a quick rundown of the drinks we've lined up for this episode, so keep an eye on our Instagram at Saucy Scribes Pod, where the full recipes drop every Monday. This month we took inspiration from some of the most memorable elements of Rites of the Starling: magical pilgrimages, ancient orbits, tragic curses, and prophecies hidden in plain sight. Whether you're joining us with a cocktail, a mocktail, or just a very large emotional support beverage, grab your glass and let's toast to another adventure in Kalandra.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

We are kicking things off with The Ritus, a hot honey bees knees inspired by the sacred journey every starling must undertake to awaken their magic. We chose a two-toned cocktail to represent that transformation: the person you are when you begin the journey versus the person you become when you survive it. And of course, we added a little hot honey because growth, destiny, and magical awakenings tend to sting a bit. So here's to stepping into the right-s and hoping that you make it out on the other side.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Our mock tale for this episode is Xandra's curse, inspired by one of the most tragic stories woven through the book. Xandra crossed the sea searching for answers. What she found instead was a corruption that transformed her into a legendary one-eyed beowf, the terrifying creature haunting the story's edges. The bright green kiwi reflects the wild magic at the heart of her transformation, while the fresh mint and lime bring a sharpness that lingers long after the first sip, a reminder that not every curse begins as a choice.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Next up is the orbit. Our savory tomato teeny inspired by one of the most important magical mysteries in the series. The orbits are ancient concentrations of magic that have thrown the world out of balance. So naturally, we leaned into the celestial theme. The giant sphere ice cube and floating tomato garnish create a tiny orbit in your glass, while the drink itself is a little unexpected, much like the truths hidden behind the world's imbalance of magic.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

And finally, we have the written future, a bourbon and black tea cocktail inspired by the journals at the heart of this story. For generations, these writings were treated as records of the past, histories, warnings, lessons already learned. But as the truth unfolds, we discover they may have been something far more dangerous: a glimpse of events that had not yet happened. The black tea represents ink on parchment. The honey softens the edges like time blurring the truth, and the bourbon gives the drink a warmth that lingers long after the first sip.

SPEAKER_03 3:10

And those are our Rites of the Starling cocktails. Whether you're embarking on the rightest, chasing down orbits, uncovering ancient prophecies, or trying to avoid becoming a one-eyed beowful, we've got a drink for every stage of the journey. If you make any of them, be sure to tag us. We love seeing your creations and hearing which cocktail was your favorite.

SPEAKER_05 3:28

Cheers!

unknown 3:29

Cheers!

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Our Patreon is live. If you love the show, consider becoming a first-year scribe for just $5 a month. You'll get early access to our ad-free episodes, a digital cocktail booklet for each book we cover, and an exclusive printable dust sleeve designed to mimic the look of vintage leatherbound books. Perfect for dressing up your romanticy shelf. And I have mine today. All responsibility gorgeous. So if you're watching on YouTube, this is what the paper version also looks like.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

It's so pretty.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

Thank you. This membership is a way to support the show and help us continue bringing this magical, messy, and swoony content to life. And if you've got a moment, we'd love if you rated and reviewed the podcast wherever you are listening.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

And now we enter our villain era. We need to give a spoiler warning, for we will be discussing all of Rights of the Starling, including anything from Shield of Sparrows and anything Devney Perry has said in interviews. If we reference another series spoiler, we will give a spoiler sound in the episode so you can skip ahead.

SPEAKER_02 4:25

As we settle in for this episode, a quick content and trigger warning. Rights of the Starling may be wrapped in prophecies, magic, and monsters, but at its heart, it's a story about grief, family, sacrifice, and the choices we're willing to make for the people that we love. This book doesn't shy away from difficult moments, and some listeners might find its themes emotionally challenging. As always, scribes, protect your peace, check your triggers, and take care of yourself first. And now, grab your cocktail and let's get into it. Alex, take us into Rights of the Starling. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:56

Rights of the Starling waste absolutely no time throwing us into the deep end. When we left off, Odessa and Evie were traveling with Brother Dime while Ransom was desperately trying to find them. At the same time, Odessa was translating Luel's journals and realizing they contained far more than family history.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Every answer seemed to create three more questions. Between the journals, the priests, and her mysterious bloodline, Odessa quickly realizes everyone around her knows something that she doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Which is why she spends most of this book suspicious of absolutely everyone.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

Fair, honestly. Then we jump across the ocean and meet Caspia, who's been having visions of a silver-eyed warrior killing her sister. Rather than ignore them, she follows her right as across the sea looking for answers.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Naturally, her cousin Xandra secretly joins the journey because apparently dangerous quests are a family hobby.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Together, they befriend sea monsters, follow prophecies, and ignore what are, in hindsight, some ominous red flags.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Meanwhile, Caspia and Xandra finally reach Kalandra, where things go downhill fast. Their starling transformations begin. Xandra starts turning into a bewolf, and the cousins are separated.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Never a great sign when your cousin grows fangs and tells you to run. Definitely not.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Caspia eventually reaches Kalandra, where she meets Andreas and begins uncovering the truth about the Starlings, the Crux, and her own powers. Meanwhile, Odessa continues following clues hidden in the journals, joins up with the Mavens, and discovers that Lysa has spread much farther than anyone realized.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

We also meet Brother Score, who somehow manages to become both more helpful and more suspicious every single time that he appears.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

As both storylines unfold, it becomes clear that the journals aren't simply records of the past. They're connected to prophecies, hidden histories, and a mystery that stretches back generations.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Caspia eventually realizes her visions are showing the future, not the past, which completely changes her priorities. Instead of chasing revenge, she becomes determined to save Andreas.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Then she meets Cause, successfully changes an outcome that she saw in a vision, and starts believing fate isn't fixed after all. Also, she and Andreas accidentally adopt said child because, of course, they do.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Meanwhile, Odessa's journey with the Mavens takes her through infected territories, monster attacks, and the skeleton forest, where she's finally reunited with Ransom after what felt like forever.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

From there, the lore starts coming fast. Caspia discovers the sacred Swifts of her people are actually the crux. Odessa arrives in Quintus and begins uncovering secrets about her mother, and both timelines start revealing how deeply connected the Starlings, the Voster, and the Migrations and the Curse really are.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Basically, every major belief system in the world turns out to be at least partially wrong.

SPEAKER_03 7:37

Caspia learns that the six gods weren't gods at all, but ancient magicians, whose corrupted power created the curse, devastating the continent. The key to stopping it lies in hidden magical orbits scattered across the world.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

While Caspia and Andreas begin searching for their orbits, Odessa is trying to save Ransom, uncover the truth about her family, and figure out whether she can trust anyone, including her own father.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

The first orbit is eventually found. Caspia discovers she's pregnant. Ransom's condition worsens, and Brother Score reveals himself to be connected to the mysterious Kedan.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

Which somehow makes him both more concerning and more trustworthy. Truly.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

Then we reach the tragedy at the heart of the story. Caspia finally realizes the future she's been seeing all along is her own. To save Andreas and their daughter, she transforms into the Crux, and Andreas is forced to kill her.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

I'm still not emotionally recovered from this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

It's we're gonna talk talk deeply about that. In the aftermath, Odessa finally learns the truth about her mother. Who is Caspia? The curse, the orbits, and Xandra's fate. Brother Score confirms that the warrior everyone has been searching for isn't some legendary hero waiting to appear. It's Odessa. Bum bum bum. And just when Odessa and Ransom finally admit they love each other, Odessa begins experiencing the same warning signs Caspia described before her transformation.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

And then the book ends with one final vision: a silver-eyed warrior kneeling before a massive winged creature, green blood on his hands, his sword on the ground, accepting death instead of fighting it.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

The second I read that vision, I knew I was gonna need the next book immediately. Immediately.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

So we end Rights of the Starling with the truth finally revealed, two orbits obtained, the real enemy identified, Odessa accepting that she's the one who has to finish what Caspia started.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

And the horrifying realization that she might be headed towards the same exact fate as her mother.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

We've survived the recap. We've processed at least some of our emotional trauma. Now it's time for one of our favorite parts of the show: Threads of Fury.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

The segment where we pull on those little threads Devony Perry left dingling throughout the story and see what exactly unravels.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Because this book gave us ancient journals, prophetic visions, hidden histories, magical orbits, suspicious priests, and approximately 17 secrets nobody wanted to explain.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

And now that we know the truth about Caspia, the curse, and Odessa's role in all of this, there are a lot of moments that hit very differently in hindsight.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Plus, the ending basically handed us a dozen new questions and then immediately ended the book.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

So let's talk about foreshadowing, unanswered questions, favorite reveals, and where we think the story is headed next.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Grab your conspiracy boards and your little red strings. It's time for threads of theory.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Woo! Yeah. Woo! Okay. So the book starts with a prologue of Sparrow Wolf. Like, talk about a like sharp left turn here. Yeah. Why? So on my reread of doing the outline, I was like, wait a minute, why does she have this at the beginning? Because I totally forgot about it by the time we got to the end of the book. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Right. Mm-hmm. The thing that caught my eye that I thought was so interesting was the last name, Wolf. Oh, yeah. And she's from Torah. Yeah. And she's obviously the first sparrow and did not like that the contract was named after her, which I thought. She did not.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

And it seems like off the bat, her people and her father actually did not trust the Voster at all, which is interesting because Ransom is the only one who seems to trust them now.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I clocked that up.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Very interesting. Did it tell us how old this was? How long ago? A couple hundred years, as far as I'm aware. I don't know the exact amount, but I know when Caspi is looking at the history, she's like, why isn't there more historical books before the Boster? And she says it's a couple hundred years.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Okay. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

It was wiped.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

It was clearly wiped. And I also find it interesting. I believe that in book one, Odessa says the original sparrow returned to Tara. So I'm wondering if we will get the rest of her story in book three, since this was in the prologue.

SPEAKER_02 11:57

I mean, there must be somehow like a cross between her story. I know. Yes, yes, yes. You cut it across. You picked it up. Across between these three women's stories who are clearly all connected. Yeah. Clearly.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

And the only thing I can think of of why this is the prologue is maybe Debbie Perry is trying to show us that the Tehrans haven't always trusted the Voster. And so when she gives us that story later on of why Alisaria is this like secret place, it's all gonna start clicking.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Right, right. So interesting. Yeah. Maybe she went home and that's why she needed to be protected.

SPEAKER_03 12:40

Maybe. But like what happened along the way that they went from hating the Voster to trusting them.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yeah. Uh destroying of knowledge and information. That, probably. Exactly. Conditioning, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Shortly after that, we get dropped right off where we left Odessa with Evie with brother Dime, and now Ransom is searching for them, which is crazy because at the end of the book, we didn't necessarily know if Ransom was gonna live, but we were like, he's gonna live. I mean, done he's gonna live. He's the MMC. He is the MMC. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

I think that's like the nice thing about romantic sometimes, but also like gives things away in the book where you're like, Well, I'm promised to have happily ever after.

SPEAKER_04 13:23

So, like, yeah, obviously, Ransom's not dying.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Well, I mean, not yet. How dare you?

SPEAKER_03 13:31

How dare you? But but immediately at chapter three, right off the bat, we get Caspia's first POV. What were your initial reactions? Who did you think she was? Because obviously your mind starts spinning right away.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

I mean, I loved this choice. I feel like in my head, I knew she was distantly related, but I don't think that I knew exactly how closely they were related until like midway through the book when we discover that she is pregnant. I was like, wait. And this is the kind of love that her father would, you know what I mean, that kind of thing. So I I mean, I loved it because it was also fascinating to me how quickly she felt like Odessa.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Yeah. You know? I definitely clocked relative. I feel like I picked up on mother pretty early. I don't remember exactly where it was though, but I definitely texted Alex and I was like, this is her mom, right? For sure.

SPEAKER_03 14:30

I mean, I didn't click mother right away, but obviously I knew she was related. But I also started spitting in my head of like, ooh, is this like her cousin and they're gonna meet up on this journey and save the world together? Like, where are we going with this?

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Oh, that would be fun.

SPEAKER_03 14:46

Yeah, that's what my initial thought kind of was, or like, was this the crux that ends up being killed? And like maybe she's not really dead, and we're getting like her side of the story now. I did think that I did think that, yeah. Yeah, yes. Which I think was obviously on purpose. You know, she wants you to question everything. She's being very vague in the beginning on purpose. Yeah, yeah. I loved it. I did think it was interesting though, when they're she's having all these conversations with her aunt, it comes up that the starling believe in retribution for murder of their own because the starling are basically like these special, you know, royal creatures in their world. So, like if you heard a starling, there are like laws essentially of like you gotta die, right? Yeah. So I'm wondering, does that mean that they're gonna be after ransom eventually in the third book for Emery's murder?

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

And that's gonna create another conflict.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

I'm almost a hundred percent confident that that is going to be the case.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

Yes. Because like the aunt isn't gonna have all the facts kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Or is she even gonna come at all? I'm just so interested by this whole separation of worlds with the different storylines of what they know about the rest of their world. It's I just find it fascinating that like no one like has ever sailed back on a ship before to give people information, basically. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

I think they really try and like nail it in that anybody who has tried to go and find the migration spot for the crux, nobody ever returns. So I feel like it's kind of tied into that kind of thing. So that's probably why nobody's gone back. But I do think there are a lot of questions which we can further dive into later in the story. Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

Like, do I think that's gonna be like the main conflict of the next book? No. But do I think it's gonna be the little side plot when Odessa's side of the family shows up and they're like, we have to kill Ransom? And she's like, No. Yeah, yeah. Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Possibly, but also sh I'm pretty confident that she shifted, though.

unknown 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

So Caspia's mother left her for her right ass when she was 16 and never returned. But did we think she was actually killed when she turned into a crux and got stuck, or could she still be alive? And when they fix the magic, are we gonna get grandma crux?

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Like, is Odessa gonna get a grandma? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

I think she's dead. Okay, so here's my here's my thought on this. I don't know if she's alive or dead. So I don't have an answer.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

I will say, so at the end of the book, Caspia does say she had like a premonition of the past that her mother was killed, but I don't know that I believe that.

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Yeah, because the premonitions do seem to be pretty conflicting. And I think one of the biggest points on that is the fact that like they were Caspia's life, she thought, but then as Odessa was going on her journey, for instance, the snake situation that was in the journal too. So that also wasn't necessarily a vision for her, it was a vision for Odessa.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Well, I mostly noticed like even instances she thought were the past in the beginning ended up being the future. Yeah. So honestly, all of her premonitions through the book were basically the future until she gets to this part at near the end of the book where she's like, I had a premonition of the past, and I got answers about my mother, and I saw that she was killed in Kalandra when she transformed her into a crux. And I'm like, but what about that vision told you it was for sure your mother? Because all of your other premonitions have proved to actually be the future. I don't think you've ever had a premonition of the past. Right. You just thought it was the past for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

I mean, look, Grandma Crux would be hilarious. That would be an interesting one. I but also Grandma Crux.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

So they they say that the starlings, I forget exactly what the line was, but basically they're one with like the nature and the animals and things like that. And they taught have a whole thing about how, like, oh, would you turn into a marrow eel? And she was like, no, I want to feel the land between my feet or toes or whatever the expression is. Right. So what if she actually didn't turn into a crux? What if she turned into something else?

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Grandma?

SPEAKER_02 18:46

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Yeah. Like I to me, it's like the sentences around her saying she had a vision of her mom in the past being killed by a crux, like there were no identifying things about it. It was like a vague sentences. Yeah. So to me, I'm like, did you assume it was your mother? And it was actually another one of your family members being killed as a crux coming to search for you versus her actually being gone. But also like it'd be nice if like some of you know Odessa's family was not murdered. And you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 19:19

Like it would just, it would just be nice.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Yeah. So why do we think that some of them just generally stopped shifting in totality, even in Nelfinix? Like two have never shifted and now just ride cruxes.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

Right. So when she's in Nelfinx, she says that like two of her cousins or whatever never went through their ritis. And now they ride the crux, right?

SPEAKER_05 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

And I'm wondering if it's like is it their magic's response to what's happening in Kalandra?

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Right. Like, is it the effect of Lysa?

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Or is it something else? Because there's this whole other subplot about Emery actually having been kidnapped by the Beesons and being like tortured for her magic and things like that. Is there something happening on their landmass that is preventing their magic from forming correctly?

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Yeah. I mean, I I think I think it's all related, right? It's like they're they're just another example of of the broken world, just exactly like the other groups are experiencing like magical corruption corruption. I think that the starling are just becoming more disconnected from their original divine magic and the knowledge of it too, and the knowledge of themselves and their history and all the things.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Yeah, and because we know that there's two factions of Vostor now, do we think that some of the Vostor somehow ended up on that continent?

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Oh, they stayed, basically, and just like went into hiding. I mean, maybe it's definitely likely. Or did some of the uh the bad ones make it back? Oh, maybe. It sounds like some of them were corrupted by having magic of their own, like the starlings, like equals essentially. But I'm also wondering if their magic is fading because they're not. This is such a silly reference, but it kind of reminds me of Moana, where they're not they're not leaving the the reef and they're not exploring like they should be. So the island is rotting, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yeah, but I actually love that reef, right? Yeah, but that's also like that's that's part of genetics too, right? Like you're not exploring and mixing and learning and right. The starling aren't like flying away.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

Yeah, yeah, because Caspia says before she was even born, they were no longer allowed to do it. So that's a really good one. Yeah, I and I love the Moana analogy. Very approachable.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

Thank you. But like maybe that's why these girls aren't transforming anymore because magic's like mad at them for not being their true selves.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah. It's also like diluted. I love it, Alex. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Moana. Moana. For the win. So then we take a little bit of a jump and we are going through the forest. They're traveling for days. They get out of the forest, and the brothers land them where they need to be. And then we meet Damon and his wife, whom I love. Yeah. Yes. And here Odessa learns about the Lionwick Claw story. And she first heard that from Luella. And Luella said that it was from the book that inspired Lisa and basically all of the chemistry projects that therefore created it, which is wild. So ironically, if Caspia hadn't written down her visions, do we think that Lysa potentially wouldn't exist?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

No, I don't think so. I think she accidentally created it. Like it's a chain reaction. It's such an irony. Like she records her visions and then the journal survives. It inspires the claw. It inspires Luella. It inspires like I think that Liza exists because she wrote down her story. I think so. Like the woman trying to save the future literally created part of the story. It's a butterfly effect, right? Right.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Well, we see it in fantasy a lot with people who have visions of the future. Most characters don't tell people their futures. They don't write them down because they know it can have a butterfly effect. So this is almost like the opposite where she didn't really think it through and she just wanted to protect her daughter. So she was like, I have to give her these things, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. To like help her on her journey. And didn't think about the end consequence that someone else might read them. Right?

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Yep. I mean, that's a really good spoiler for metal singer Lightwielder. It's the mom. That's why she's like, I refuse to tell people their future anymore. Right. But as we know, she does. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

I mean, it's with all so many stuff, right? Like even just us and our tarot cards, you know.

unknown 23:50

True.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Very true. Tony's a tricky one. It's tricky. It's tricky there. So Caspia and Xandra head unknowingly for Kalandra. On the journey, they befriend some Merrow wheels, which I loved this scene. I loved it too. It was so good. Proving that Odessa does have this affinity and connection to probably not infected with Lysa animals.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

Yeah, I feel like that was a really good confirmation for what we assumed in Shield of Sparrows when we did our threads of theory on book one. Because we were like, we think she's just connected to the animals. And this is like a very solid, like, yeah, she is for sure. Totally.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

And I will say this book did an amazing job at answering your questions from book one at a great pace while sparking new questions. Yeah. Like it didn't feel like front loaded or backloaded at all. I agree. It was so well done.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

I completely agree. And the other thing it did not do, which is like one of my biggest pet peeves, is it wasn't like, and as I said previously, if you recall, kind of a thing to where it's like, oh my God. It wasn't so in your face and just so obvious. But like if you're thinking about it, they're on a ship. She was on a ship. It's like all the parallels are there and you can make the connection, but it's not so overtly, like explicitly in your face, which totally done so well.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

I think there was a line that literally said the divine bonded their bloodline to the creatures of this world. That's the quote I was trying to go for. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

And so they felt they never had to fear them, which Odessa feels that even though she doesn't know where it comes from. Yep. Yeah. And everyone thinks she's crazy. They're like, oh my God, don't walk up to the baby like tiger that's gonna claw your face off.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

And she's like, it reminded me of have you guys heard the story of the Dodo bird was a a real bird, right? Right. Yeah. Humans hunted it to extinction. And they called it dodo because they thought they were dumb because they immediately came up to humans and were like, hey, who are you? And they were like, dumb bird, and they killed it. Oh the poor birds were just worse. Yeah. The bird was like, they had never seen humans before, so they weren't afraid of them. So it was like, hey, friend. That makes me so sad. I know. I know. That's really sad. So anytime she tries to like tame an animal, I'm like, that would be me. In the forest, the bear is coming at me. I'd be like, Hi, friend. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

I will say this is so funny because, spoiler, for star side, which I'm reading right now, the main female character is like the same, but the opposite, where she's going up to all the animals because she's like, but it's friendly, it's coming near me. And the guy's like, I know what that animal is. It's about to cut you in half.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

I don't care if it has flowers in its horns. It's so funny. That would be me. Total opposite. He's like, You're an idiot.

SPEAKER_03 26:50

So on this journey, also, Xandra and Cap sleep together, and there's like lots of love vibes, even though it's supposed to be casual and fun and flirty. Cute. Do we think we're gonna get to see Xandra and Cap like end up together? Is she gonna turn back into a human? Like, like we find out Cap is related to Emery's husband, right? And like there's like a whole like backstory. Yeah. So like I'm like, I feel like this has to be going somewhere, right? I agree.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

I it has to. There's just too much, too much time spent on her.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

But also, is this like okay, this is B spiraling in the moment? Is I feel like Xandra's heartache and mental stability if she does become human again after killing so many innocent people is gonna be a harrowing journey, right?

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Like, how do you come back from that? Is this like a spin-off series potentially in the future? Oh, interesting. This is only supposed to be three books. So it's it feels like too much to cover, unless, of course, she just doesn't become human again, and her and Cap was just like a fun little whatever. But I feel like it could be a really nice, fun potential.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Definitely is like, I gave her a really nice life before I know all of this show.

SPEAKER_04 28:07

I mean before she became a wolf.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Unless unless Cap goes to try and find her and gets attacked by this were a wolf and it's and he kills her and then she turns back into back into the human and he's like, no. Ashley!

SPEAKER_04 28:23

What have you done, Janet? That feels like it has Debbie Perry written all over it after the ending of this book.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

I don't know. And that's the thing. Like, my greatest love is also your greatest heartbreak.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

I don't like it. I don't know. I love it, but I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Same.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

Uh actually.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Sorry. She's like, I'm sorry, I'm not sorry. Sorry, not sorry. No, it's brilliant. It's brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

It is. It is.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Because then she doesn't get a spin-off and it's still like, you know, in the world.

SPEAKER_03 28:57

But I also want a spin-off.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

So like I would like a spin-off. I feel like this. I want more pirate. I want more of this book. I don't want it to be done at three. No, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Oh my god. What if she does a whole spin off on pirate? Yeah, I like it. And he's going out for a vengeance because he killed his the love of his life.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

We've spun. We've spun so if Debbie's listening to this, if you didn't have this idea, here's your idea. Write a spin-off. Everyone loves this series, gonna want a spin-off. So, like, listen to us.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yeah, there you go. Let's talk more about um brother score leading Odessa to finding what we can later assume is a nothing other than an orb. And why do we think he takes that side quest without telling her father when we know later now that he brought it to him? Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

I mean, it brother score, I think, is written so well because he's so just like, I want to trust you, and also I think I hate you, but also do I hate you, but I think I like you. Ultimately, I love him, and I think he's an excellent character. But I truly think that the whole cave situation, he didn't tell her because he needed her to do it and she didn't trust him. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

I I agree too, but why do we think that he didn't tell her father that that I think he didn't tell her father because even though he acts really passive towards Odessa, she's still his wife's child that he loves so much that he literally never survived getting over. Yeah. So like it's like if he came to him being like, I'm gonna take Odessa to hunt down these orbs, he would have been like, absolutely fucking not.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think it was a little bit of protection. I also think that score is certainly not just simply a priest. Like, he's definitely like a major player in like a much older reality and all that game, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

He's a great character. I I love him and Dime actually so much. Me too. They're great characters. I love the evolution we saw from book one of Dime going from this person that Odessa really hated to being like, oh wait, I think I'm a rebel. I'm with you guys. Like, why don't trust the high priest either?

SPEAKER_02 31:06

I can genuinely say that on on my not real bingo card for this book, I did not have feeling positively toward the gold king and the Voster. Correct. At all. Like coming away being like, oh my god, I want you guys to do well. Like, I'm I'm rooting for you. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

I kind of did. I kind of felt like I kind of felt like Ransom's dad was like the bad guy. And I felt like there was always a hint of compassion. Yeah, it was so well written that she had like a conflict between trusting him and not trusting him and wanting to trust him, like something deep inside her like wanted to trust him. And I thought, yeah, for sure. And the Voster, I don't know. I just felt like they don't feel like dementors to me. So it felt like there had to be like another side of the of the coin, you know? I mean, book one, they felt weird. They did I mean they are they are, they are weird. They are weird, they're really like that there's they're not the same.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Yeah, there's dimension, yeah, yes, of like the rebels within the Vostor versus like the people who follow the high priest, and it all makes sense, which is what I feel like I love so much about the writing because it's real, it's nuanced.

SPEAKER_01 32:18

No one is all good and all bad, and everyone has their reasons.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

I'm obsessed with how good of a writer she is. It makes me want to read all of her contemporary romances. Yeah, like the same.

SPEAKER_05 32:30

And she has so many.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

For those who don't know, she has so many contemporary romances. And if you don't know, she's written a series with Rebecca Yarros.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

Yeah, baby! I saw that. I saw that.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

Yes, that was really fun. That's like really old. It's a throwback to their total contemporary romance days before they both got into romanticy.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

I love it so much.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

But I yeah, this series has been so well written. I'm also like almost terrified for book three of like, oh god, I hope it ends just as good as it was started and admittled.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

There's no there's no fear in this writing. Like it is, there were so many times in when I was reading it, I was like, wow, every word feels intentional. It's not like they there was like another pass through where they were like, well, if we do this, then it'll create more of an Easter egg, or if we do this. Like every single word was so intentional. And the pacing was freaking great.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

I was not bored or annoyed or anything about any of this. Like it was just such, it was so digestible, but also like oh, it was so good.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Me too. Essentially, I read it in a day.

unknown 33:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

So should we talk about the interesting vision from Caspia about the woman in a prison cell who was pregnant, who was being experimented on to steal the power from her veins?

SPEAKER_03 33:51

Yeah, it's interesting that she doesn't realize it's Emery until later on in the story.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Like, I don't know if she doesn't realize it or it's just like she doesn't say it to the reader necessarily. But I'm like, don't you know what your sister looks like? But maybe she doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Or maybe, or maybe the vision didn't show her.

SPEAKER_03 34:12

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

I also think that it was, again, intentionally written this way to like plant a seed, but not for sure. Because I suspect that Emery's story is like the key to understanding everything the orbs, the sickness, the foster, literally everything. So if that was given away too soon, I think there would have just been too many like things because we kind of she had to go. Yeah, she had to go from like legend to victim in a way to have that like mirror what keeps happening to women throughout the series, with like powerful women being controlled by institutions and men, men, and sometimes organized religion. Yes. Yeah. Oh god, heavy themes. So we learn that she was in prison, she was experimented on, she was stripped of her power, her lover was killed, and her child was taken away from her.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

Like as far as we know, her baby was also killed.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Oh, I just thought her child was taken away.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

No, so there's a line at the end of the book when we actually have Emery's story and she's like talking to the aunt or whatever, which they say they eventually broke her child.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

When I read Broke, I thought maybe they figured out how to make her not a starling. Oh, I don't think so. Like to break the connection or something.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

I'm gonna go with connection because I just written, I took it as her husband and child are dead, and she escaped and came home alone.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

I definitely know her lover was killed, and my protection mentality was like, nope, they just took the child. The child's out there somewhere. The horse is a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

My brain was just like, nope, the kid is okay. The kid is okay. But then where's the kid?

SPEAKER_01 35:56

She has a baby, but the baby's no longer a starling. They broke her connection to the divine, and now they're I don't know. It's right. Well, anyway. Anyways, that got really heavy. Apologize for that. Anyway. Okay, so uh so Caspia meets and Andreas and he speaks in a Besan language. So let's talk about it. The the Beesans are what? The ones who overthrew the what? The culture.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

I do think it's interesting that the Calandrins speak in a B cin dialect.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

That feels very specific.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

I agree. Because any time they're mentioned, I feel like she's quietly highlighting something that we should remember. Yeah. The Beeson overthrew a culture, replaced belief systems, altered history, like hilarious. They're torturing Emery. Does that sound familiar? I suspect that much of what we know quotes.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Like, are the Beesons and the Kalandrins the same? Like, did the Beesons go to Calandria and inhabit it?

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Yeah, I mean, I think I think it seems that way. I think that just everything we know about the Vostor and Magic is incomplete because the Beesons rewrote part of the history and Calandria is the culmination of their manifested disconnect from magic or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

I do feel like that sentence is so specific. It's like, why would you point out that he's speaking a B cine dialect if it wasn't important? Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Totally important. 100 important. Yeah. So as we move on, Caspia and Andreas fall in love. Yay! Yeah, so good. She has her first vision of him dying at Xandra's hand. We know that this vision changes frequently, and not all of her visions are set in stone. But let's talk about this impact on the future of the story and how her perceptions change her actions.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

And that doesn't mean what Odess is experiencing necessarily is gonna come true, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:57

Right, exactly. So I think that's the main thing, right? Like this does change everything because there are multiple altered outcomes. So the story introduces this like critical rule that seeing something, a vision, is not necessarily destiny. And so that's huge for her because it means that everything terrible that she's been shown is fallible could be avoidable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

And interestingly, isn't it also Xandra that points that out to her early in the story? To where she's like, just because you see it doesn't necessarily mean that it's true.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

I don't remember, but Xandra like trusts in her visions, right?

SPEAKER_02 38:32

I hope.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah, that's why she went with her.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

It was but she was also her like she was also her like grounding reality to be like, hey, you can't always believe everything. Which leads to when she meets Coss. I love him. And then she has the vision of him that she herself changes, but also let's talk about Koss because I love the Cos of it all.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

I love him, and I think that she spent so much narrative energy on him that like his role in book three is gonna be like, I don't know, I can't wait. Like Chef's Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:06

And also he's he's in the library. He's in the library. Of course he's in the library. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

It's very interesting that Odessa has gone her entire life without knowing them, really.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

Well, yeah, I agree. She met them. Like it's a little wild. But I mean it's not wild, really. It wasn't wild to me because they were trying to protect her from any connection she had to her mother. So like these were very important people in her mother's life. So like it makes sense to me because it it would be too painful to see them reunited and like what the thought of what they would tell or what they would share or whatever. Because she had met them when she was a child, right? A baby baby, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Yeah, I just think like it's interesting that King Gold Andreas became so scary in his grief that they didn't even try to have a relationship with her because it wasn't about protecting Odessa about memories from her mother, it was about protecting him. Yeah, like they clearly felt like she should really deeply.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

But I mean, there was there was some healing that happened at the end of this book, which I enjoyed. Yes, but I also think that like you know, the letter that Caspia wrote cause that was essentially like, you're not gonna remember this. But when she does, I think it's I think it was like all divine timing and all of that. So I think if anything had happened and they had developed a relationship sooner, then like maybe she would have read this book sooner than she was supposed to. Like, I think it's all divine timing.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

If you've been following with us on our podcast, we cover Quicksilver, but spoiler for Quicksilver.

SPEAKER_04 40:39

This is the correct way to do a mother having prophecies about their child versus the incorrect way. Yeah. It's honestly so similar, but so different.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Oh, it's like, oh, it's like so different.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

There's no eye roll.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

There's no eye roll. There's no, oh, this is just a plot device in the story to make the story move. It it feels so natural and like everything's not being told to Odessa of just like, go here, do this, you'll survive. Congratulations. Like, absolutely. Yeah, this is if you're gonna have a mother leaving you a book of prophecies, this is the way to do it. Agreed. So we get a story from the journal, speaking of prophecies, that hasn't been totally explained yet. That's definitely, I feel like, the future, where it's a little girl with a cast on each arm, and we later find out that the woman cheering her up, wearing the beads and glasses in the vision, is the Quintus healer that Odessa meets. Does that mean the little girl's gonna be Evie?

SPEAKER_01 41:51

I think so. I thought it was gonna be like her daughter.

SPEAKER_03 41:54

She doesn't have a daughter, as far as we know. Not yet. Not yet. It makes me think though that Evie does break both her arms. That would make sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

It would make sense to me.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

Yes, because Odessa's reading it in a book. She doesn't know what she looks like. Yeah, right? Yeah. She doesn't know that it would be a big thing. She didn't have the vision.

SPEAKER_04 42:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:15

I'm just like, that makes sense to me. I feel like that's Evie. Also, so how does Evie break both of her arms?

SPEAKER_01 42:21

But also painting flowers is a really great throwback to when she was picking up the flowers and handing them to Odessa when she woke up when they got the orb. Remember, she was making it a flower bouquet.

SPEAKER_03 42:34

Which makes it seem like the Quintus Healer, I can't remember her name right in this moment. Yeah. Knows Evie really well to have painted that on her casts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

I think you're right.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

Um, so sorry, Evie, that you're gonna break both of your arms.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

But also she'll have flowers. It'll be great. But also it feels very Eevee though.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

Yeah, it does. YOLO.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

YOLO.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

She's just she's a free spirit who does what she wants and she likes being raucous. She does.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

She does. She probably got it protecting phase, you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

So not even halfway through the book, this is around page 200 to 450. Ransom and Odessa reunite. And the only reason I bring this up this way is because a lot of the comments on Reddit was like, Oh my god, where's Ransom? Where's this like romance? Where's this journey? And you're just like, and actually, like looking when I was doing the reread, I was like, to me, it felt great pacing wise. Me too. I didn't think the reunion was too late in the book, personally.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Because he was also there. It wasn't like he was not being written.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

I I thought I thought it was great. I thought it was paced perfectly. So the only reason I bring that up is for all the haters who were like, I need ransom back in the story right away.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Okay, because that Caspia's storyline was so engaging that it did not feel waiting. Like it was waiting. So if you were looking for the smut of just your ransom in Odessa, then sure, you weren't paying attention to the rest of the story. You missed so much goodness then. Feel bad for you. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Also read a different book. The haters are just lusty. The writing was yearning.

SPEAKER_03 44:23

And I felt like it was perfect. I felt like it was fantastic. Him coming back like right before the halfway point was perfect. So I thought it was a good thing. I feel like the people who complain about it, you need to be reading erotica and not romanticy or fantasy because this is the wrong genre for you.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Listen, your your girl has some book recommendations for you if that's what you want.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

If that felt like a long time to you for smut to be missing, then you're reading the wrong genre or you're reading the wrong book.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

I feel like we have to keep saying this. Like, I even actually updated our bio that we cover fantasy books, not necessarily romantic. Because, like, after all of our discussions about how frustrating it is that so many of these books are actually fantasy books and not just like smut. I was like, you know what? I feel like this is actually an important differentiation to make to where it's like, this is fantasy. And it's not just, it's not just smut, it's not just, it's not the romance that's the main catapult of the story.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Like it's so much more.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

It's so much more than smut. Like, I'm sorry, when the quote unquote smut is like 2% of the book, 5% of the book, I feel like, why are you categorizing it that way? Nailed it. It's it's and I I know it's something as old as time. There are books literally written about this where it's like because of the female pleasure, positivity that of course we have to put it down. We have to put this negative label on it. But it's just like, haven't we evolved fucking enough? Like, come on. But we also just love men who are not afraid to show women in positive lights. Matt Denniman is the person who wrote Dungeon Crawler Carl. For those who don't know, it's like this huge series that's blown up on book talk, and every romanticy girly has been reading it, even though it's not romantic, it is science fiction. Oh, that's fun. I need to read that. And recently, him and his narrator, which the audiobook is fucking incredible, did an interview recently where Matt was saying that he loves the negative reviews on his books, especially the ones that are angry just to be angry about how he writes strong female characters.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Oh because he's got those science fiction bro hate comics.

SPEAKER_04 46:41

Right. And so he put actually puts them on his website as a joke.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

Oh my god. It's like how we do like the best terrible reviews of our books that we're separating.

SPEAKER_04 46:51

And I I was just like, Well, I like I really love your books, and now I love you as a person even more because you write strong female characters as a man, and then you think it's even more ridiculous when men tear them down because you can tell they're insecure about them themselves. Boom. Boom. That's it. And I'm just like, yes, chef's kiss, we're here.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

You know, men are allowed, they're invited as long as they're not assholes. Yeah. And also, not all these books are smut. So then we learn a tourist history. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

Took those threads and we pulled them all the way out.

SPEAKER_02 47:32

We apparently have a lot of opinions this episode.

SPEAKER_04 47:35

We have a lot of feelings.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Because it was just so good.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

It was so good. It was so good. And I just like have zero tolerance for hate on this book because it was written very well and it was fantastic. And I genuinely don't feel like notes of what you could say. How dare! And how dare you.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

See, that's the thing. This good writing has made us like giddy when we're on this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Yes. I think that is it. I think that's it.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

I mean, we've also read a lot of not great sequels, right?

SPEAKER_02 48:05

So when we there's been several this year, actually.

SPEAKER_03 48:08

Yes. And there is that thing of the second book slump that is just a thing, like in writing in general, outside of romantic for any series. And I feel like when you find a book that doesn't have it, it's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Yeah. I mean, it's in movies too. It's in movies as well. Especially if it's a setup and I get that. Yeah. But this is the way you do it.

SPEAKER_03 48:29

Yep. So we learn of Thora's history, who we actually turn out to know is Vale, Catelyn's niece. And she denied her debt being paid off. Why do we think that is? What did she do to get indebted in the first place? Do we have any theories about Thora?

SPEAKER_01 48:45

We think that that is sort of just a little taste of something that we're gonna get in the next book. More of that healing of that story in that family line, because all the debt is going to be forgiven and she's working it off by protecting Odis.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

And we also have that vision that Odessa assumes is Thora of the warrior who like throws off the armor in the middle of the desert or whatever. Like it's like this powerful moment. I do think we're gonna get more of Thora, obviously, in the next book, because we know that they come back at the end of this book. Um, because her dad is like, come protect my child. But yeah, I I can't wait to see what her story is. And I love that we get another powerful woman in the story other than Odessa. Because I think in book one, our only complaint was that the side characters felt underdeveloped a little bit. Yeah. And this feels like I don't feel that way anymore, basically. I'm like, I don't feel like I'm searching for side characters now. Now I'm like, oh my god, I can't wait to get more of these like juicy side characters, right? Yeah, yeah. Which is great.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

I mean, I think I'm just most interested to figure out like what got her into the debt in the first place and to figure out how she feels about it so much that even when her debt was going to be paid, she said no.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

Back to that this is only supposed to be three books. I'm like, how are we wrapping up all these stories in one book? Because it feels like I could have a whole series based off of Thora now.

unknown 50:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

How are we gonna do this all?

SPEAKER_03 50:07

It's so great.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

I'm also gonna be really disappointed if we don't get other spin-offs and stuff in these characters that she's developed so beautifully now.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

Yeah, but I'm like invested. No, but sometimes isn't it great to want more instead of be disappointed by like dragging out a storyline that isn't as intentional as this is because everything she writes is so intentional. Like, I don't want it if it's not gonna be this. 10 out of 10. Yeah. Right. You know what I mean? That's true. I think I would always I wanna I wanna still look with rose-colored glasses at all these side characters, you know.

SPEAKER_03 50:42

But also, I don't want it to be too many side storylines and big political drama that we can't wrap up in one book. That's the only also the part I'm nervous about.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Wait, well, I don't even I think they're all gonna come together, you guys.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

It's all gonna be, it's all gonna come to a head. Yeah. They're gonna meet across the land.

SPEAKER_03 50:59

Like Thora's guy or whatever who's holding her debt is like secretly a B-San who's like the king of like all of the drama or something, and it's all connected.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Like, and you're gonna that actually makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

It kind of does, actually, weirdly.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Do you like crack? I think that actually makes so much sense. How they're all going to eventually adapt back together.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

Right. Andreas takes Cassie to Quintus, where she recognizes Viston. Her sweet favorite crux.

SPEAKER_03 51:30

In the paintings.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

In the paintings. If if Viston was one of her favorite crux, does that mean that crux eventually return to their original nature when they leave Nelfinex? Like, is the sickness reversible? Like, what?

SPEAKER_03 51:43

It seems that way that when they go to Calandra and come back, that they like pull away from the sickness.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Right. And so, I mean, does her aunt know that this happens? Is this why they aren't allowed to leave the island anymore? Is there is there something that draws them to Kalandria, to feast, to like whatever on and then come back?

SPEAKER_03 52:04

So Caspia assumes that her original ancestor who helped the foster escape to Kalandra and came back to Nelfinix made the rule about how they were not allowed to follow the Crux to their like nesting place or whatever. Right. Because they knew that their magic got like poisoned, essentially. That makes me feel like they do know that it's not permanent, which I think that's like a huge overthing in the story of like this is all not permanent. Like if the crux can go home and not feel sick anymore, that means Xandra might be able to be a human again, et cetera, et cetera, which also might be harder for her father to deal with that he killed her mother because that means she could have been healed one day, right?

SPEAKER_02 52:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean But also it begs the question why are these people not returning? Like the ones who had left to follow the migration. Yeah. So you think that they just I think they're getting killed. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah. All of them.

SPEAKER_03 53:06

I'm not sure. I think her aunt knows in the sense that the ancestor came back and told them not to go. I don't know that her aunt really knows what's going on. Like to a T.

SPEAKER_01 53:18

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 53:19

I don't think so. Personally. Yeah. Otherwise, I think she would have tried harder. Yeah, I think she would have tried harder to get Caspia not to pay attention to her visions and not go. You know what I mean? Like it just feels like a half-assed effort of like your ancestor long ago told you not to do it, so you're kind of following it, but you're not taking it that seriously.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Yeah. Yeah. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

That's just my vibe. Maybe she does absolutely know, but I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Yeah. I don't think she would let people, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

Yeah, I get I get blissful ignorance vibes, not willful ignorance.

SPEAKER_03 53:56

You know what I mean? Right. Because I think she's surprised too when Emery returns home and finds out she was tortured by the B Sans. Like, I think it is that blissful ignorance that she doesn't really see that everyone's out to get them. You know what I mean? Like she's just like, we're the starling and we're great and we're awesome and like whatever. And she doesn't really bring it on to him. Oh wow. And I don't think she really sees the evil that's going outside of her kingdom, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 54:25

Yeah. Because it's all about the backstory, and we don't have hers yet, but we do have Andreas' backstory, the gold king, and we finally get the knowledge about his father, the kingdom's like missing gold, and his brother's death from addiction to the uh what was it called? Corkin. So and like all of the things. Does this reshape our view of him at all at this point?

SPEAKER_03 54:51

For me, it's in book one, the way the gold king was described. I thought of him as like a spoiler for guild, but like as Midas is like he was like the gold king and like he was frivolous and like ruthless, coveted his money and didn't share his wealth, and was like, and that's why he was so rich.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Because of the way Odessa painted him. And then we find out that it's actually the opposite that his dad was that way. And the reason he's called the gold king is because he's so good at saving money and saving things and giving it to the people. It was like such a it's so much, it's so great. It's great. I it's such good writing. It was like such good writing.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

I can't say that enough. It was like just oh yeah. The character was really drawn back on him as a person to where it's like, oh, you you actually didn't make the money, you're just like making more of it, but not in a way that you're like ruthless and terrible, yeah, and destructive. Yeah, you're doing it in the right way.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

And I also love the way that it was written with the alternating chapters timing so well with all of this stuff, because like right after we get his backstory, Odessa reunites with her father, right? So it's like it's already in our head the backstory, so it gives more nuance that like our FMC doesn't even like you know what I mean? It's just like it's so much, yeah, which I think this is so good.

SPEAKER_03 56:19

I think this is the point where I was like, oh, it's her mother. Because he's definitely the gold king, and if she's in a relationship with him, then that's her mother.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah. When she reunites with her father and says that his silence felt intentional, um, as though he wanted to hurt her. Do we think that's a fair assessment? Do we think that's a wounded perspective? It's trauma, per se.

SPEAKER_03 56:42

It is, and I think trauma is her POV. I don't think it was intentional. No, I think he is so hurt by what happened to him. Yeah, I mean, it's a whole theme through the last half of the book. A hundred percent. Right? That he is a terrible father because of his trauma. Yeah. And it's not because he doesn't love his daughter. No, it's because he loves her mother and her so much he can't bear to look at her.

SPEAKER_01 57:07

Yeah. And that was a dude, too. And at the end, he he was like, I'm sorry, but you walked into that room as this new, as this version of yourself. And I paused for a second because I thought it was her walking back in. Wasn't that true? And so there was that scene where like she was like, it was a brief smile. And then it went right back or whatever. And then we learn that the brief smile was most likely the moment when he was like, Oh my god. Oh, and then he came flooding back with the reality of like all of his actions and everything that happened. Ugh.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

Right. Just like reality came flooding back in general, just like, oh, she's not here anymore.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

Like, oh yeah, and I heard right after this, then we go back to when Caspia discovers that Andreas is the is the prince king and engaged.

SPEAKER_05 57:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Like, I love the way that this story was told. It's just such good writing.

SPEAKER_02 58:00

Yeah, and also you kind of get the the idea that he actually like didn't want this. And he's like, if I truly could just stay in this cabin with you forever, I would.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

Yeah, it would speak so much to his character and actually who he is as a person. It's just uh such good writing. I think we're gonna say that so much on this episode. Yeah. It's just so well known as a piece of work. Oh, a piece of work. Ew, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:28

But aren't they always yeah? That's why Disney always kills them. Exactly. Well, of course, my goodness. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_03 58:39

So she also meets brother Nold and discovers he's a I'm gonna do my best with this. Velva Set of Fair.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

The Ostelfer. Velvy Ostelfer.

SPEAKER_02 58:52

That actually sounds like apologies. Yeah. Apologies. I didn't do the audiobook, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 58:58

I didn't either pretend to know how this word is.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

I did the audiobook, and I'm pretty sure Ashley was the closest.

SPEAKER_04 59:05

I'm gonna call them the Velvey for short.

SPEAKER_02 59:08

The Velvy is a good one. No, not just the foster. Feels good.

unknown 59:11

Feels good.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

So she meets Brother Nold and discovers he's a Velvey, someone whose country was invaded by the B sand. We learn that's the Foster and that they were overthrown due to their religion. And we learn their magic makes Caspia ill. Andreas obviously knows this about her. He sees her faint and get violently ill from being around. Why does Daddy Gold King never ask his daughter if she can feel their magic?

SPEAKER_02 59:42

His revelation to where she's like, Oh my god, I hate feeling their magic. And he's like, What? What like what? Like it was because he was so disconnected because every time he looked at her, clearly he saw her mom. He couldn't get out of his own hurt and his own trauma, that he just like didn't develop a proper relationship with her. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

And so he didn't know. No, he's drowning, and it doesn't excuse everything, but like it it explains him a lot. Zoom out, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

Yes, he's so misguided, which leads us to finally she tries to talk to him about trying to get the truth from him, like have a one-on-one conversation. He still is shutting her down of like, I'm never gonna trust you. Yeah, and why? Like, why does he do this? She's so I this point was disappointing. It was disappointing.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

Now, knowing how it ended, I understand because he trusted, because his trust, his greatest love, right? The one he trusted with everything, like he had to hurt her. Like, so it was like a thing where, like, if I trust you, then you're gonna get hurt, or if I love you, then you're gonna get hurt. It's the same sort of like cycle. So he's like, No, I can't trust you with this. I need to protect you with this. And if I if I protect you, then you won't die. If I trust you, then you might die. Like all of the cycles of all of that. I think zooming out, but I think that was heartbreaking that he was like.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:05

So heartbreaking. I do think part of it is too, is if they were ever close, obviously he would have to tell her the story about how he actually is the one who killed her mother.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

Exactly. He it's shame. Guilt and shame.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:18

Guilt and shame. Guilt. It's that he can't look at her because he loved Caspia so much. It's it's so many things. Yeah. So many things. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:29

I agree. But it's sad. But he did agree, fine, you can use the healers.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:35

Right. And she beats she beats healer alore. She does. Who's the lady who's gonna put cast on the floor?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

Yeah.

unknown 1:01:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:43

But it's so interesting because despite claiming that she doesn't trust the healers, just like her dad doesn't trust her, Odessa almost immediately trusts Allure. Like, and she hands over Ransom's blood. The journal! And like the everyone's all bloodline.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:00

This was the only part of the book that I was like was when she went literally from one chapter to the next, she was like, I can't trust anyone with ransom's blood to immediately trusting Allure with Ransom's blood.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:13

But again, I think that was smart writing because in between those two chapters, her heart got completely shattered into pieces because her father said he wouldn't trust her. So, like when our hearts get broken, immediately what do we do? We go and we like vomit to someone our emotional experience so that we feel like it's not everyone. Or like the bartender in the room. Yeah. The bartender, the hairdresser, the nail, the nail salon. The healer. You know what I mean? The healers, we go, our therapists. Like, we literally go and we're like, I have to put my faith in someone or something, or else I will lose faith in everything. So, like, fuck it. I can't, like, I've already hit rock bottom, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:54

That's a very fair point, Ash.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

So I think in defense of the writing, because it if it's the only thing we can find that there's like, we're like, then there has to be a reason because she's too intentional.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

Well, and I feel like too, Odessa was probably like, Well, I need someone's help. And right now, you're my best shot.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:11

So True.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

I'm just gonna have to.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:14

And she's a woman.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

And she was a male healer.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:17

I'm as shitty as it is to say, if it was a male healer, I also did love that in the chapter before.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:24

Obviously, her father was an absolute dick. But even in this, when we know he was an absolute dick, she was like, for all that my father is, he does trust women and promote the best person, whether they're a woman or a male or whatever, uh, you know, any of that stuff. Yeah. So like there was always a little bit of sliver of like, no, he's not redeeming. Yeah. Interesting, also, that after she hands her man's blood to the healer, it didn't end up being a bad choice, but it was not a bad choice. It was not, but it was risky. Sticking on the blood theme while researching calandrian history. The chapters are just lined up so well. That's what I'm saying. Like, so while blood and blood, then she was researching calandrian history and writing her starling book. Caspia discovers that her blood is green. Like when in Nelfinx it's red. It's red.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:10

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:11

Real weird. And she was like healing faster, all these things. Her senses also begin sharpening, like Ransom's does. Had Caspia lived, like was she heading towards the same magical poisoning moment? Like there, we also like later on discover like her eyes similar to similar to Ransom's, like all these things.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:30

They did change, right? Yeah. Yeah. Also, do we think that Odessa's blood's gonna turn green in Brook Three? I do. Yes, yeah, I think so too. I think it's gonna help them find the cure for Lysa, actually. I think so too. Because they're already on that track, and once they find out her blood turns green, I think it's gonna be like a Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Cause she's she handed, she she spit in the cup, essentially, right? And we didn't get the results of any of that yet, did we? Right. Or not yet, basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

Or like yours wasn't useful or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:02

Right. Right. I mean, I do think that had Caspia lived, she would not have been healthy to the age Odessa is now. Like I think there would have been issues.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:14

Oh, yeah. I mean yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:16

Everything's I think it would have been yeah, similar issues, obviously not the same as ransom because he has Lysa, so it's like slightly different, but I don't think it would be have been drastically different. Maybe like a slower progression. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:31

Yeah. By the end of her portion of the book, she was incredibly weak and basically like not able to do anything anyway. So I think it was headed that way for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:42

Yeah. And they also say that whole thing about how Margot helped give birth to Odessa and just like you never forget giving birth to a woman who's bleeding green everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

Yeah. Yeah. Which then leads perfectly into this next moment when. Can we talk about her?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:01

Can we talk about Margot?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

Can we talk about her? The Margot of it all. The Margot of it all.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:06

The Margot of it all.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:08

Who also like I end up having a lot of feels for at the end.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:12

Same. And I I will say this part where she refuses to get Odessa pants and she leaves her the hair dye and all that was a little like Margo. But looking back on it, because she knows she was trying to protect her in the end because she knows the foster ultimately are after Odessa.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:34

Correct. It makes it me too. I yeah, I do see the try. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:41

But it's also like, did you have to be such a bitch about everything else? Like Odessa doesn't like you.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:46

But there's but honestly, neither does her own husband like that. I know. You know what I mean? So there's so long.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

But that's like weirdly so finding out Margot's whole history. I was like, wow, that's kind of shitty. Also heavy and sad. And you know that you weren't the one. But also she signed up for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

You said yes. And it feels like it was because she made a promise to Caspia. Yeah. Because like she did all of this because she made a vow. She touched her head and she was like, I solemnly swear that I will protect your daughter as if she is my own. And she literally made the promise also that she would care for the king because she knew that she loved him. And she also probably knew in that moment that he was never gonna love her back the same. So she sacrificed so much.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:36

Marco's story might be the saddest in the whole book, to be totally honest. Like for sure. It's devastating.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

But I am glad that because also we find out about her affair, right, in this moment. And we also know that the king does know about the affair, knows about the children, cool, and is just like okay with it. And also it hasn't changed the fact that her lover is also his like trusted advisor. Right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:00

Which I do wish we got more of a sense of approval from him. Like I wish there was more of a sense of like, this is your happiness versus me just okaying it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:13

I do think we're gonna get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:14

But I think it's like the political structure of it all, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:17

You know what I know, but it's just so shitty for her. I don't even know that it's political though. I think it's exactly what we were saying. He's so he's bleeding out, nothing can fix it, and he cannot see anybody else's experience. So I think now that there is this healing that's happening between him and the apology, it will hopefully in Odessa. And and also like he knows now that Margot, he knows now that Margot loved his wife as much as he did to a certain extent that she would even hide the journal and protect the daughter, even though the daughter wasn't hers, and he didn't love her like that. Like all of these things, I do feel like now his healing journey is gonna start now that he can like work on his guilt and his shame, but not instead of just like bottling it all up in this like silo. I think now he's gonna be able to express those things because he's not like a teapot ready to explode at any moment in time. I hope so. I think it was just he was blinded by his own stuff that like that wasn't even a thing on his mind. He was literally only thinking about how to protect his dead wife. So, like, marrying her was like the scuttle butt of the town. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

He even said a thing about how marrying my maid's wife was like the talk of the town to hide that my starling wife's maid.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:34

Yeah, wife's maid.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:35

Yeah, yeah, totally. So Caspia learns about the magicians getting magic from demons, the infernal, the enemy of the divine, who the starling worship.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:46

We find out that the magicians did something catastrophic to the land. Do we think that's why humans have starbursts in their eyes? Caspia says it is. But why is it seemingly different than other types of magical corruptions then? Yeah. What makes it different?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:01

I like paused when I was doing the recap and the outline for this of like Caspia says that the reason humans have Starburst in their eyes is because of the poison in the magic. And I'm just like, wait, what? Because everything about the magic being poisoning has had a negative effect, but so far we haven't seen the Starburst have a negative effect.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:22

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:23

Other than just a marker, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

Other than just a marker, beautiful, yeah. I think for me, it's either like it's dormant magic or their evidence that like all humans were just changed, altered completely. It's weird.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:38

It's a weird line that I don't know what to do with. Yeah. But totally be honest. I don't know what it says, but I feel like she wouldn't put it in there for no reason, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:47

I agree. Because you know what? Sonnet 90 answers a lot of our questions, but not this one. Through Sonnet 90, Caspia learns about the battle between the six and the pythoness and realizes that like her ancestor was involved, right? What the magicians were burned, their ashes were sealed in these orbs, and they were buried, and those trapped ashes are what's poisoning the land. But the one question that remains is how did the Voster inherit the magician's magic in the first place?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:21

Yes, that is very pointedly excluded from all of the explanations. Yeah. Uh-huh. TBD on that one. TBD on that one. TBD. Does that mean one of the magicians is still alive? That's what I'm wondering. I think so. And where are they?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:42

Like, is there a big bad villain we don't know about coming in book three? Are they are they bad? Or is it the high priest? Or is it the high priest? Is it the high priest? I think so. Do not trust the high priest. Do not.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:58

But anyway, we decide to hunt down the orbs because of course we do. It's a romantic book. Duh with our friend Seth Hay. Duh. Seth Hay, which is a coincidence or not, because Samuel Hay is obviously her friend from the first book, who's the writer about who's the one who, yes, and who wrote that her dad killed her mom, and it's the only time she's ever heard that. Yep. But like we find out that Seth Hay dies on their journey to get the orb. Is that why Samuel eventually goes after their family? Is there like weird, even though they think there's not bad blood, is there actually bad blood that it gets twisted? You know what I mean? Like they loved Seth and they made sure his family was like well taken care of to the point where they could go out of being merchants and they could like have a more free life. But you know how telephone happens where stories get twisted as they go down. And is that why Sam later on went after his family in the newsprint? I hope we find out. I think we will. I don't that's there's no way that's a coincidence.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:03

No way. No. Odessa finally tells Ransom everything. He reveals that Brother Score and Dime are Kenan, and together they write a letter to the high priest. The high priest in question. Um, I hated this part.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:21

This is the biggest part through the fandom that's like, I'm sorry. Why aren't they concerned about this at the end of the book?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:28

Yeah, I mean, everyone else seems terrified of the letter except for them. We never really learn exactly what it says beyond their desire to bypass both her father and brother dime to get answers. But Odessa doesn't trust the high priest either. So what is happening?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:45

As much as we think that this is like catastrophic, and I don't think it's not catastrophic, but I do think she's smart enough not to put everything out in writing.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:55

Yeah, and I think it's inevitable to a certain extent, because like they have to already know something's happening, so like it might as well use it to your advantage in some way. But like, she's not an idiot here.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:07

Like, no, she doesn't trust any of them. So I don't think she's gonna write a letter to him, even if it's through ransom, being like, by the way, my dad is a Kenan supporter. Like, I think it's gonna be more surreptitious than that. He's a kennel of just like asking questions or needing you know what I mean? Or do you want to come visit? Or like it's not gonna be something so direct. Also, like if anyone's got like requests audience with him, yeah. Yes, like I think it's something more vague than what we assume, and that's why they're not freaking out about it at the end of the book of just like oh shit, we wrote this letter. Which I do think at the beginning of the next book, they're gonna be like a little bit like oh shit, we wrote this letter, but I don't think it's gonna be like, oh, we wrote this letter that my father is a Kenan supporter.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:57

No, no, I think they're just like it's a it's an invitation, it's an invitation for questions. Yeah. I don't think they're giving anything away.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:03

And yeah, I think she's smarter than that. And if she's not smarter than that, then I'm disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:08

You know, but what she wasn't smart enough to do was go and walk sweet little phase by herself. Ugh. Oh, wait, before we get into this heaviness.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:16

Extra trigger warning. This is one of the few books where there's actually a sexual assault on the page. So if you need to step away, please do.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:24

Odessa goes to meet May and is attacked by the guards because she takes a little detour to walk phase. Let's talk about this whole encounter, including the attempted essay on the page. And what do we think the purpose of this scene was and what does it reveal?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:40

Well, I mean, they were they were after Guardian.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:43

They were after phase, too. They were after money.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:46

That's what at least that's what they say.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:47

Yeah, I mean, I think that's true. I think she knew that phase, yeah, that is a thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:52

And yes, and they thought they could take the guardian at the same time, and it ended up being her. It is interesting that her father's guards went after his two daughters, thinking there would be no repercussions, which shows how checked out he is, I think.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:06

Yeah, and also who who are they checking in with? Yeah, who are they working for?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:12

That they could get away with this. I will say there is definitely sexual assault on the page, so this is heavy, but obviously it doesn't get too far. This is still an enjoyable read.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:27

Um but it is um concerning.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:31

It is a lot, it's a lot and uh I do feel like in book three we will see discussion about it. I think, you know, especially May, because she gets, I feel like, more of the brunt of it. Yes, that will be more of a storyline. We visit with her.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:49

Yeah. I mean, I think we have a lot to visit with her because there is a massive May revelation here that um absolutely deserves more discussion because we find out that May isn't the king's biological daughter. So, like, if she isn't, then there are some like massive timeline questions surrounding the shield of sparrows tradition. And I think we're still missing like a crucial piece of information because it feels like things aren't complete here. We don't have the whole picture yet.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:21

I agree in the fact that when I read this, my immediate thought was so how did May fulfill the shield of sparrows? Because you can't lie to magic, I feel like, right? Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:33

So there's something missing here.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:34

So why did he think May would ever be able to fill that bargain when she is not his daughter?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:40

I think that's a good thing. And also did somehow ransom know. Yeah, I mean, I think ransom maybe, but I also think that again, he was trying to protect Odessa.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:48

He was.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:49

Or does magic recognize magic? And that's why he was like, no, it has to be her. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:56

But also, I mean, I'm sorry. If I was Margot and my husband basically put up with me, and I had children with another man, all these things, and I was sacrificing so much of my life to protect my best friend's daughter and my husband who basically ignores me's daughter, like, would I sacrifice my own child to the shield of sparrows? Like, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:22

But it all there is also something. Did we learn why May really wants to get the fuck out of there?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:29

Um, as far as I took it, it's because she wants to get away from the toxic environment of her parents' relationship.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:36

And she knows her lineage.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:38

She wanted to. Yes. That's why she fought so hard. That's why she studied for this. She was like, get me the fuck out of here. And you're an idiot if you didn't know that I wasn't your sister and that's not my dad.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:48

I don't discount May's reasoning for wanting to be the shield of sparrows. I am confused by her parents' reasoning of making her the shield of sparrows.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:57

I mean, unless Margot was like, you want to go that bad, like, sure. I mean, maybe. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:04

I didn't know if it was that. I just feel like as much as I would ever promise my best friend to look out for her child, I've never sacrificed my own child for my best friend's child. Correct. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's a it's a little bit of a stretch, but I hope it is explained further in book three because that's the only part of this that I find to be a little bit not believable. And like that feels a little like how is that really possible and happy.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:33

Again, I think I genuinely think that the Gold King had a plan, and he kind of thought he was going to be able to trick the magic. Ultimately, that wasn't the case. And so I I think this was like a long game plan, and that's why they were training Maeve. Because they let her do the fighting, they let her do the training, they let her do everything, and ultimately, like it just ended up being something that also Mae was aligned with to where she was like, Yeah, get me the fuck out of here.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:01

And they probably thought she was gonna, she would be the one that would be able to survive.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:06

Yeah, right. So I don't necessarily think it was Margot being like, Oh yeah, I'm letting my child do this over the true air of it. I think it was more so just like she actually makes the most sense. But also, she truly wasn't treating Odessa like her own child. True.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:25

But also, May's training started when she was such a young child. That's what I'm saying. It's a long game. But like, how would you as a mother ever look at your child and be like, oh yeah, you want this? Like S says seven-year-old training.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:39

Well, maybe she didn't know. Like, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:41

Like, maybe as an adult and you want to escape your parents' affairs and your parents' whatever, and you're an adult who can make your own or even a teenager, you want to escape those things of your parents. I don't I just don't understand Margo looking at her like six, seven, eight-year-old child being like, Oh yeah, I totally believe that you want this.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:59

But maybe Margo was waiting for the other foot to drop and knowing that she wasn't the true like child of his, that like at s at any given point she was going to need to be able to protect herself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:14

I think it I think there's it's the it's the only thing that's I'm a little like weird about in the story. Yeah. And also it's like obviously we don't know what it would have happened, but I'm also like, if May had signed that contract, would it have even worked? You know what I mean? It wouldn't I don't think so. I don't think it would have worked. Brother Score visits Ransom in his cell after her father imprisons him for the whole guard attack, etc. etc. And when Odessa is there and she asks Brother Score to siphon the magic from Ransom's blood. And Ransom previously had said that only the high priest could do that. And in this moment, he says brother Score is more powerful than the high priest.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:55

Sure did.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:56

I don't think he knew I don't think well, obviously he didn't know, but it just opens up a whole treasure chest of what else is the high priest lying about. Like that's what it said to me.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:08

Yeah, I would also like to go back to the vision where they are siphoning the magic from the pregnant girl. Yeah. Because that's the same as what they're doing.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:21

My next thing is is the high priest telling him he's the only one can do it to steal Ransom's magic.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:29

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:30

From his blood.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:32

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:32

Motherfucker.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:33

Because I think he needs it to survive. I think he's like he's probably I mean, we know that the boss are really old.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:39

He's a vampire priest.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:41

Like we vampire priest. Vampire priest. That's the difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:52

Oh god. Oh my god. But it's a perfect tie-in for Emery's tragedy, right? So like steal siphoning from ransom, stealing the magic from Emery. Like after 24 years, we find out that she tracks down.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:05

She was imprisoned for 24 years. Hello? I'm sorry. Her if her child did survive, they would be a teenager. Maybe an adult. So like the full. Back to that. Like, I'm so sorry. I don't think her child survived. Like, it's as tragic as it is. Or did they? But all no survived for my mental health. I also think because she does go after Caspia. Remember at the end of the book, she says, even though you foresaw the vision of me being killed by the silver-eyed warrior, I'm going after them anyway. I think if her child still existed, she wouldn't have done that. You think she would have tried to find her kid instead? Yeah, that makes sense. No, I think I think she would never have left her child in the first place. Not even tried to find it. I don't think she would have left her if she had escaped with her child. Or yes, she would have gone after her child, not her sister. Like I'm sorry, child Trump's sister. Like, I'm sorry, just I hear you.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:59

I hear you. Yeah, clocked.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:00

Heard. One tragedy to another. What wrecked me about this scene, which is Caspia's death scene, isn't just that she dies. It's that she finally understands something that the entire book she's searching for answers. And then the answers arrive almost simultaneously with her death, which is just like classic tragic prophecy structure. And she becomes the bridge. Like she becomes the solution. And then she doesn't get to like cross the bridge. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:37

So Shakespearean.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:39

I can't get past my wife is cold, get her a blanket. I two days.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:45

I can't. Oh. Two two days he laid beside her and he could not look at his daughter from that.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:51

Wouldn't let anybody clean the room. Like I can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:55

Two days. He two days. She needs a blanket. My whole heart.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:59

I hope if I die, Tony acts that way towards my dead body. You better hold me for two days, babe. This get her a blanket.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:07

Okay. Get me a blanket. This whole this whole scene is if if yearning to love is love is to death. Oh that's this scene.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:19

Yeah, no, totally. It's so Shakespeare. It is so classic. Heavy and beautiful. It is heavy and beautiful. It's one of those things in the most horrible way.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:32

Like it's one of those things where I wouldn't change it because it's so beautiful, even though it hurts. Like and it's humanizing.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:40

It's so like you can't you can't look at Odessa's dad the same way. Yeah. And you're not supposed to.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:48

Yeah. And here's the thing. How could you? I think I'm worried for him in book three. I'm worried for a multitude of things. I think he's gonna die. I'm worried because reconciliation has been completed. Check. Emotional closure has been achieved. Check. Major secrets have been a little more emotional closure. There's going to be some sort of sacrifice and then death. And I think Odessa finally understands like all the seeds are planted for the for the healing of that relationship.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:18

But I also think for us as a reader, we're gonna feel happy for him that he is with Castle.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:25

Yeah, exactly. There are signs there is a full circle moment waiting for him, and they they will see each other in the shades in the shades.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:35

Who will be the heir? I think May. But she's not technically his gonna matter. People don't know that.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:42

People don't know that. I don't think wants to rule Quintus. I think Odess is gonna end up in Tara. So I think she's gonna end up in, yeah. I think she's gonna end up in Tara. She feels an affinity to Tara way more than she has ever felt to Quintus. So I think May is gonna end up being the rule of Quintus.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:02

Yeah, and in this, like her father also claims that her mother's first Quintus journal may have accidentally ended up in Tera. Like how we know it does because Odessa has it. Right. So like Vision Mom absolutely got that journal to her somewhere. Like how?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:20

This is feeling very Quicksilver where she planted it in the library. Yeah, exactly. Like here we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the Easter egg was in book one, and all of the answers are in Alisaria. I think the answers about the high priest, I think the answers about her dog wants it. About Sparrow Wolf, I think the answers about the journal. I think all of it is in Alisaria. And ultimately, like that's still the goal for Odessa to get to, even though it's not the main goal currently. Yeah. Agree. And Ransom does say when I take her to Alisaria. So I know they will be going to Alisaria. Yeah. That's book three. There is so much to happen in book three. There's so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:05

I'm so excited. Do we do we know when it's coming out? We do, actually. Yes. It's next year. Which is so disappointing.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:12

I mean, this has gotta be a beefy book, right? She does bring Thora and Jody back.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:18

She does at this end.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:20

Which I love. I like them. I like them.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:23

I love them. And I didn't even know this is a theory until I was trolling Reddit. But so many readers have shipped Jodi and May. Oh, what? Yes. Because Jody is like, like, you know, there is hints that he's in love with Odessa during the book and he keeps flirting with her. And people think because May is Odessa's sister and they have like a similar personality, but she actually matches better with Jody that they're gonna end up together.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:49

Well, I mean, I can see that, but what happens to her lover? Oh, he probably dies. We don't know anything about her. Yeah, he's gotta die. He's gonna die.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:56

He's gonna die. He's gonna die.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:57

I love that we jump to death. Yeah, we're just like kill kill that person off. No.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:01

Yeah, he's gonna die, and Jody off her. He doesn't know. Like they they're off on a quest. He dies, Jody saves her, they fall madly in love, they fight each other because they hate each other so much, but really that's just their passion because they're both fighters, and then they end up feeling.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:17

So I'm not the theory person at all. Like in terms of like Reddit theories and stuff like that. But I did stumble across one that I was like, this is ridiculous, and I don't agree with it whatsoever. But just to get your guys' take, even though I'm not sure. We have a ridiculous theory. We love a fun theory, but the fact that I saw it several times, I was like, wait, do people actually think this? Because it seems silly. What is that? Is they think that ransom is going to die and that it's going to be Odessa and Jody. What?

SPEAKER_01 1:29:54

That's an insane. Oh, so so ransom's gonna die, and then Odessa and Jody will rule to Tara, and then May. Okay, like so.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:05

To me, these are the people who just like have to be so far out of the box. Out of the box, yes, that they're like, the author has to write something you don't see coming.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:19

No, I hate it. I know why I disagree with this theory. Foreshadowing's a thing. Yeah. I don't like it. I think I think it's I think it's more Jody and what's her name? May. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:34

I could see Jody and May for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:37

I can see that too.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:38

And I think that would actually be a good thing. Because they're both so feisty. Yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:41

And we like it. And they would be so funny together because you don't see them interact in this book at all. Yeah. So I know, but I can love that theory.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:50

Unless May is gay. Oh, okay. And she ends up with Thora. Uh with, yeah, with Thora. Interesting. I don't hate it.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:00

That could be fun. I don't I don't hate it. Well, I guess she would be she would be pan or bi though, because she does have a male lover.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:07

She had a male lover. That's right. Yes. But also fine. Couldn't couldn't not be. Um, but that was the ridiculous theory that I saw. And I don't agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:20

I don't agree with that either. But you know what? You people have had fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:23

So you know what I do agree with? That finally ransom says, I love you back to her.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:33

And I will say swoon because what this is the other thing on Reddit people complain about, but I get it. So like I don't get the complaint. I get it too. I will say it is hurtful that she says it throughout the book and she's always waiting for him to say it back. I do so too.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:50

And we know he It feels earned at the end.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:52

It does too.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:53

You know what I mean? It feels earned. I also think it's a metaphor kind of or it's a shift because she says I love you because she thinks one, she's well, obviously they love each other, but like she could lose him at any moment. So she's always like, I love you, before there's a moment where she's like, ah, be safe, I love you, or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:10

And he finally says it because I think he finally understands that he can actually lose her first. Because he's always like, you know, I love you forever and ever. I'm going first. But I think this is the first time he was like, I actually could lose her.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:27

So I I love you is like a version of like, I love you, I don't want to lose you. Because he didn't think that that was gonna be the case before. He's like, No, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:35

Well, because before he thought not saying it was a kindness because he was dying. Yeah. Yeah. And now he's realized she might actually somehow die before him. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:45

And I think that that's you know, after after Caspia's death and like learning like all the the everything sort of unraveling. Learning everything. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:55

Which honestly should not should not be the catalyst to tell someone you love them. No, it shouldn't. It shouldn't be. But also when he he thinks that he's dying, so he doesn't want to put her through a more emotional turmoil when he does die by making that statement.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:10

But like he shows that my favorite MMCs, though. Like truly.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:14

Like I just wish he had a different name. His name is terrible. I'm growing over the name. I agree. I wish his name was just The Guardian.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:24

Well, so I I will say again, I'm sorry, Kelly Hart, but like this is how you do a name shift. I'm not gonna call I'm not gonna call him. He's still Kingfisher. I'm so sorry. Kai definitely never turned out of my mouth.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:38

Like, no, no. I forgot his name. No, I didn't even know what his name was until you just said it.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:43

And I like the name Kai. That's I I love the name Kai. That's but he's Kingfisher.

SPEAKER_03 1:33:48

Nope. I wish Ransom was named Kai. Because Ransom's a terrible name. But moving on, let's talk about the ending vision of the book, the complete end, where Ransom is clearly on his knees. Odessa has shifted because she started feeling the rightest. And he just succumbs and he's like, Yes, kill me, my queen. Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:14

Surrender. She was a uh ransom?

unknown 1:34:18

I can't.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:20

I can't. Perhaps at the end of the day, he was used as a ransom.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:26

Ransom God.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:28

I can't. I think we made a joke like this at book one, too. We did. We definitely did.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:33

It's a continuation.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:35

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:36

I will say excellent ending. Perfect cliffhanger, even though we obviously know that she's not gonna kill him.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:43

Like we don't even care. Nor is she dead.

unknown 1:34:46

I don't even care.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:48

It was so good. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was fantastic. Well. 10 out of 10, no notes. 10 out of 10, no notes. 10 out of 10, no notes. I actually truly have no notes.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:58

Yeah, no, me either. Well, I loved everything about it. Put that to the test. All right. We've survived the migrations, decoded the journals, and emotionally processed absolutely none of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:09

Which means it's time for everyone's favorite segment.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:12

Roses, buds, thorns, and we're probably not gonna trim anything but trim trims. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:20

This is where we talk about what worked, what didn't, what surprised us, and what we'd happily toss into the sea with the magician's ashes.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:28

We'll be sharing our favorite moments, our biggest frustrations, the things we can't stop thinking about, and maybe a few unpopular opinions.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:34

Because if there's a one thing saucy scribes love, it's overanalyzing every choice an author makes.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:41

So grab your drink and maybe your pruning shears because it's time for roses, buds, thorns, and trims. And let's start with our roses.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:52

I do feel like we, in the process of this episode, like we really did tackle a lot of our roses, our thorns, and our buds. Yeah. Like already in this episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:02

I mean, my wife is cold. What? My wife is cold? What?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:10

It's like you're one of the greatest lines ever written. Also, you guys, I have to I would be remiss if I didn't point out the fact that like 100% of the time we talk about the sex scenes.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:22

And that that was great. It's fine. It was like it was great. The rest of the book was just so damn good. A freaking book. I like forgot about them. Yeah, me too, actually. Wasn't the point. No. And it was good they were bad. Right. No, they were great. It was less a plot point and more just supported connection in moments when we wanted it. So I loved it.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:46

I loved it. So like I think something that people struggle with in romance to see if we're talking about that as an actual, like, specific genre versus fantasy. Is I think the reason people struggle with book twos a lot is because usually by the end of book one, the romantic relationship has been established, right? The yearning has happened, the meetup has happened, etc. I think she did an amazing job of keeping the yearning and the exciting going because she introduced Caspia and Andreas in the story the way that she did. But they weren't even new characters. They were technically old characters. Yeah. So, like she doesn't even have to continue with it into book three. It was just like to keep your attention going if that's what you're there for in book two.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:32

Totally. And also because ransom wasn't there, we got a where is my wife? Yes. Like, we got yearning on the front end of the book too. We sure did. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:40

We got it, we got it in every sense. And her her practical magic moments when she's looking at the cut on her hand and being like, Where are you? I was literally like, My squeeze.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:51

You're hard enough. Our blood me.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:54

Our blood. You're so right. But like Caspia and Andreas's relationship, like, because of the way it was written in their romance fell, earned both characters carried enough loneliness and responsibility, and the reveal of his history transforming him from like this whatever secret-keeping, untrustworthy king, bad dad, into one of the most nuanced characters in the series. And the scenes in Quintus, I feel like gave the book an emotional warmth during a very like lore heavy middle section. Like it was just so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:26

I will say I also appreciate that because it ended up being the mother and father in the story, most of the Caspia Andrea scenes were like kind of fade to blackish. Yes. Versus like detailed, which felt correct. Like correct. Not that they're my mother and father, but like reading about your character's mother and father getting it on in the same way you're reading about them getting it on is a little different. It was just done so well. It was done so well. Well so well.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:58

This is a series I would love to see adapted into a movie. It would be beautiful. Margot Robbie. Margot Robbie would do this incredibly. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. A series. But yeah, also, I mean, to your point, Ashley, definitely Andreas' story is definitely like a really, really, really big rose. For sure. Also, the Voster backstory I found to be really cool. And again, it was just these like massive surprise things that I did not have on my bingo card that like truly, I think, made the book what it was that were unexpected, that you fell not necessarily. I mean, you fell in love with some of the characters, obviously, but like just the backstories and really relational aspects of them that really made it incredible. Yeah. That were unexpected.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:48

Yeah. And I feel like we just have so many buds because of it. Oh my god, the buds are spendless buds, which is amazing. Do we do we really have any thorns? I don't think we've talked about them a little bit in the theory, like this kind of addressed.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:03

I mean I don't have many. I would say if I'm being extremely nitpicky, I would have liked to have seen like maybe one more scene where I saw Ransom and Odessa like connect more before they said, I love you.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:18

Okay. Okay. You know what I mean? Okay. Like I think in my head, I imagined that they were connecting deeply when Margot handed them the journal and said you have to read this together. But they we didn't see it. We didn't see it. You know what I mean? Like I didn't see it.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:30

I wish we had seen a little bit more of their conversations and that like falling in love of talking their feelings out before the I love you. But that's just me being nitpicky. I actually wouldn't really like change much of anything that I read.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:45

Like general consensus, I think my thorn is that we want more. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:51

I want it to be five books and not three, is my like thorn.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:55

My my thorn is that we want more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:59

I mean, also Thorn, the pants, fine. The pants and the hair dye, but also we talked about it. It I understand all of the things that were Thorns and why they happen the way they happen. So therefore it's like I'm not gonna trim shit. No, I wouldn't trim anything. No trims. No trims.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:16

No trims. No trims.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:17

Um god, we just want everything. And all the buds. All the buds. Every I mean I Thora.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:22

I want to know everything about Thora. I want to see Odessa and Andreas's relationship continue before he clearly dies. And yes, before her daddy dies. I weirdly really want to see May and Odessa's relationship continue.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:36

Absolutely. Which I think will.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:38

They have a strange relationship in that they like kind of hate and love each other. Oh, yeah. And I really want to see where it's going. It's very strange. I want to see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:47

They are sisters. They don't necessarily like each other, but they love each other. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:51

Yeah. Uh the Voster Magic situation, yeah. Massive bud for me. Yep. Massive.

SPEAKER_01 1:41:56

Um obviously just thrum. The thrum. Yeah, obviously. The bloodline, the green blood. I just clearly her shifting. The cure. Clearly. The cure. That fate can be changed. Major paw points, yes. I mean, so many things. The animals. The queen of the starling.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:18

What's gonna happen with FaZe? I need to know what's gonna happen. Okay, phase getting bigger.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:22

We actually didn't talk about this. And I texted you guys today when I read it. I was like, I hate that she had to put down her horse.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:28

Yeah, that made me really, really sad. It was really sad.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:31

Because I'm also like, it wasn't the creature. They didn't didn't need to happen. I mean, but it like she needed to.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:38

It was like a mercy.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:39

Yeah. No, I mean, I'm s I the horse didn't have to get injured by the thing. The horse could have survived. But did it? Like, I'm just saying, like, she got them out.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:48

She got them out. I think I'm sure when Devney was sitting down to write this plot-wise, she was like, I can't continue to having to take care of this horse, though, through the rest of the story. I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:00

Like, I have to give it a an edge makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:03

I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:04

Yeah. I know, but you know me. I anything happens to an animal, it doesn't have to happen. Do it to a person. I know. I know. I was also devastated.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:13

But they cannot. FaZe must, FaZe must survive.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:16

So I don't, I don't think Evie is going to let FaZe go, and I don't think FaZe is gonna let Eevee go. So I think FaZe is gonna let FaZe go. Nobody's gonna let let FaZe go. We're gonna have the sweet little Tarkin who will no longer be little. I love it so much.

SPEAKER_01 1:43:31

Maybe when they go to Calandria, I'm gonna say something sad. No, no.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:37

What if FaZe dies protecting them and it proves to everyone else that the animals can be like good and righteous?

SPEAKER_01 1:43:44

Well, that's what I was gonna say. What if the I I prefer my mine when they just they go to Calandria and FaZe doesn't turn into a monster and FaZe stays friendly. Then they realize I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:58

Okay, no, I I want FaZe to be like, spoiler for Bridge Kingdom. Um I want him to be like his house cat.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:08

I want I can't think of the house cat name, but I don't think that's no, I do not FaZe cannot die. No, FaZe can't die. And also he's too domesticated now. He can't be let out into the wilderness. I know, which is why he might have to die. I hope that's not how Evie breaks both of her arms. Saving him? I can't we're gonna be spiraled. Yeah, we're gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:31

And then the rap. And that's that on that. Yep, that's a wrap on Rights of the Starling. What started out as a story about mysterious journals and magical pilgrimages somehow turned into a heartbreaking tale about family sacrifice, destiny, and one of the most tragic romanticy couples we've read in a long time.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:49

I don't know about you two, but I am still emotionally recovering from Caspiat and Andreas.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:55

Same. Debbie Perry really said, What if I broke your heart and then explained exactly why it had to happen?

SPEAKER_03 1:45:02

Ugh. We finally got answers about the curse, the crux, the starlings, and the orbits, but somehow it feels like we've only scratched the surface of the larger story. Odessa now knows the truth about her mother, the warrior she's supposed to become, and the impossible task waiting ahead of her.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:18

Plus, she's showing the same signs Caspia showed before her transformation, so that's definitely not terrifying at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:25

No, we're completely calm about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:28

As always, we'd love to hear your thoughts. Did you see the Caspia reveal coming? What was your favorite twist? And what do you think Odessa's future looks like now that she knows the truth?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:39

Be sure to follow, rate, and review the podcast wherever you're listening. And come find us on Instagram and TikTok at Saucy Scribes for theories, cocktails, character discussions, and all the romanticy, fantasy, chaos we can't fit into one episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:53

And if you'd like even more Saucy Scribes, join us over on Patreon for ad-free episodes, our monthly drink tome, before everybody else and this month's vintage-inspired dust sleeve.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:05

And next month, we're leaving Calandra behind and diving into the sequel of When the Moon Hatched Ballad of Falling Dragons by Sarah A. Parker.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:16

Which means we're trading prophecies, cursed magic, and beows for Faye and Dragons.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:22

And let's be honest, if there's one thing that we love around here, it's emotionally devastating fantasy creatures.

SPEAKER_01 1:46:29

Until next time, remember we pair books with beverages, we follow the prophecies, and we only dive saucy. Saucy saucy.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:42

Love you guys.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:44

Love you.