Asia on Tap

Behind the Brew: Facing Alcoholism in the Beer Industry

• Lidiia Kuzmina • Season 1 • Episode 12

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In this episode of Asia on Tap, we dive into the realities of alcoholism and our relationship with drinking, especially within the world of beer. 

Joining the conversation are leading voices from the brewing industry: Tom Turner (Neon Cider), Scott Powrie (Double Haven), Chris Wong (Heroes Beer), Paul Jones (Cloud Water), Dias Zhumashev (Carbon Brews), Chris White (WhiteLabs), Rohid Dugar (Young Master), Patrick Gatherer (The Globe), and James Waters (Rooster Beer). Together, they bring insight from inside the brewery, sharing their perspectives on drinking culture, industry pressures, and how to find balance—both behind the bar and in everyday life.

This episode isn’t about judging or labeling anyone; it’s about honest conversation, understanding, and finding what works for you. Whether you’re looking to moderate, take a break, or simply be more mindful, you’ll find practical advice and real-life perspectives here.

If you or someone you know is struggling with alcohol, support is available. Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) holds regular meetings in Hong Kong, both in-person and online, with sessions offered in English and Cantonese. You can find meeting schedules, resources, and support at www.aa-hk.org, or reach out by phone or WhatsApp at +852 9073 6922, or by email at aahelp@aa-hk.org.

Tune in for an open, relatable discussion about balance, boundaries, and building a healthier relationship with alcohol—whatever that looks like for you.



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SPEAKER_03:

Welcome to Asia on Tap and this special episode. I'm your host Lidia Kuzmina and today I want to have an honest conversation about alcoholism and the way alcohol shapes our lives, sometimes in the way we don't even notice. The reason I'm bringing up this topic is because, let's be real, alcohol is part of almost everyone's life in some way. Even if you don't drink, chances are There is someone in your family, maybe that one uncle, who struggles with alcohol. Or maybe it's you, and you facing those challenges yourself. Working in the food and beverage industry, I've seen a lot, and I struggle with drinking myself. Seeing my stats, 80% of my podcast listeners are men. And in our society, men are often told they can't complain, they can't cry, and they should just be quiet and suffer in silence. I want to make this episode for you, to let you know you're not alone, to share my own journey, and to bring the stories from the guests who have faced similar challenges and found ways to cope. So whether you're someone who drinks, someone who doesn't, or someone who's just curious, I hope you will find something to relate to in today's episode. Let's get into it. I grew up in a small town in Siberian part of Russia. While alcohol was not everywhere in my family, it was definitely present. My grandfather, on my dad's side, loved to drink when he was younger. But as he got older, he became almost an anti-alcohol advocate, warning everyone about his dangers. In the 90s in Russia and other former Soviet countries, food cards, also called coupons, were introduced because of the total deficit. These cards were issued for essentials like meat, milk, sugar, butter and more. Vodka and other alcoholic beverages were also issued on those coupons. My grandfather would collect the alcohol coupons from my dad and his other kids and sell those bottles on site, so even when he was not drinking, alcohol was still a part of our family story. My dad worked as an engineer at the passenger transport company, helping to keep the buses running and making sure people could get where they needed to go. Every Friday, he'd come home heavily intoxicated. Sometimes his friend would have to help him to our doorsteps. That was just the normal in our small town, where everyone knew each other and drinking was a big part of life. Our town was surrounded by three prisons and a lot of people in town had spent time there. We lived in five-story building on the second floor. Under our apartment there was a family who drank every single day. with their friends or drinking buddies. As a kid, I was terrified of them. We would hear the husband beating his wife, the yelling, the screaming, seeing people passed out on the hallway, or fighting, like literally fighting in the stairwell. was just part of growing up. I didn't even know what that meant to be drunk, but I was scared to step over the old lady who was often lying on the floor thinking she'd grab my ankle. Alcohol affected this family so deeply that it changed the course of their children's lives. The older son started with small crimes, stealing things, breaking into garages, and eventually ending up in jail after brutally killing someone with an axe. The daughter's story was as tragic. She got involved with some dangerous people and was later found hanged. The police said she didn't have the strength to tie the knot as tightly as it was, but because the family was already seen as a trouble, no one really looked into it. They just marked it down as a suicide. In my region, winter lasts for eight months and the temperature can easily reach to negative 65 Celsius. Sometimes people aren't careful after drinking. They walk home, fall into the snow, and fall asleep freezing to death. This is very common. We have this man who is known as town's alcoholic. He walks around the town and asks for money. If you give him some, he will be very grateful and sing a song for you. A few years ago in the winter, he fell asleep on the street. He didn't freeze to death. but both of his hands did, and they had to be surgically removed. For people my age from the former Soviet countries, the image of an alcoholic is pretty clear. It's an undisciplined person with a rosy nose, asking for money, passed out on the street, drinking for days or months non-stop, drinking cheap vodka or whatever they can find, even a cologne if that's at all available. But as I've got older, I realized that's not the only kind of alcoholism. I became what you call a functional drinker. I was not lying on the ground or causing a scene. I was drinking craft beer or cocktails, something that felt fancier, more acceptable. I paid my bills, I did my job, and I thought that made me different. But the truth is, drinking is still drinking. Whether you're having seven drinks in one night or one drink every day, it can still be a problem. Growing up, I used to spend weekends at my aunt's place, about 20 kilometers away from our town. It felt like a better place, no prisoners, a nicer vibe. But alcohol was still there. My aunt's best friend lived next door and her husband had a serious drinking problem. One night, when I was visiting, my aunt's friend came rushing in to call an ambulance. Her husband had been drinking for months straight. That's common thing in Soviet countries, called zapoy. That night, he went to delirium tremens, the most severe form of alcohol withdrawal. He had a fever, his body was shaking, foam was coming out of his mouth. He died that night. It was shocking, but sadly, not unusual. In the 90s and 2000s, this was common. Even as recently as 2018, nearly 200,000 people in Russia died from alcohol-related causes. This isn't just something that happens back home. It happens everywhere, including Hong Kong. Even in my professional life, working in the beer industry, I've seen how dangerous and easy it is to slip into unhealthy patterns. I remember Uli, the head brewer, from Young Masters, who died largely in part of excessive drinking. Last year we lost Matt Walsh, the former brewer of Modern Times and Double Haven, to alcohol as well. I've seen people start drinking as early as 8.30 in the morning. Working in the beer industry doesn't help. Beer is always accessible. In the morning you taste beers from the fermenters. There are always events and parties. Whether you had a good day or a bad day, it is so easy just to walk into the cold room and grab a beer. At home, cooking dinner, you think, why not? Just one? But it never really stops at one. Even on my way to work these days, I see how normalized drinking is. I usually stop by 7-Eleven around 7 a.m. to grab a coffee. And I see uncles buying San Miguel's of Blue Girl. Maybe they just finished the shift. Maybe it's the start of the day. But it's a reminder of how even present alcohol is, no matter the hour or country. Now I want to share some stories from my guests who work in our industry about their relationship with alcohol and the way they handle it, both personally and professionally. Tom Turner.

SPEAKER_09:

Yeah. It is almost a dangerous place to be. I have a personal intention of trying to make my products good enough that I'll be tempted to take one out of the fridge at the end of the day. So my professional focus is to try and make myself drink, which is kind of difficult because on a personal level, I'm actually trying to drink less. And I have been for the last, I don't know, 1015 years trying to drink less like UK's got a huge shrinking scene. If you're not blind drunk by eight o'clock on a Friday evening, then you're not a real part of society. It's kind of a crazy thing. Yeah, I'll call it ism is a very big threat in our industry, and I'm always trying to remind myself not to go down a dark path. I think one of the things that is difficult is we're kind of working in an artistic way. So a factory labor job with technical ability and an artistic flair, and you're putting your heart on your sleeve, putting a product out, and then hoping people like it. and you're not distanced from it in a way that would be more healthy. You really care about your product. So you can end up getting so tied up in it and it can get kind of bit of a rollercoaster emotionally. And it's very, very easy to just have a couple more drinks than he needs. Tell yourself you're just making sure something's okay in the tank, but maybe you're just a bit unhappy. Yeah, it's something I'm always thinking about and trying to make sure I don't go down a too darker path. I mean...

SPEAKER_08:

You're counting your drinks?

SPEAKER_09:

Yeah, to be honest, I don't really actually. I try to have like days where I'm not having more than one and I try and have days when I'm not having anything. I try and have evenings when I go out where I'm very focused before I go. don't have too much, you know where this could lead. I do think about it. And having one of these like Garmin running watches, it's always telling me how bad my sleep is after I've had a drink. And I kind of use that as a kind of was, it's real, you know, like you feel rubbish, you have a drink, that drink makes you have bad sleep. Maybe it really messes with my stomach actually. So on a personal level, like I'll end up having bad indigestion the next day, I'll sleep terribly, I'll feel like crap. by the afternoon, maybe you pick yourself up with a drink. So there is a risk there. Yeah, anyone that's listening that is sort of feels that they're going in that way. I mean, one, you're not alone. And two, there are ways of sort of getting through it and trying to find some healthy outcomes. So one, if you can talk to some friends, try. try and express yourself um and two i i've done counseling uh in the last couple of years i did did about nine months of counseling towards the end of covid um and it really helped me and that's a combination of a lot of things um of being a new entrepreneur of being in an industry where yeah, you're putting yourself out there and I'm naturally relatively introverted, quiet-ish person. I want to do well and I want to do things, but I find it quite difficult to put up the relevant barriers. Also, you know, just a lifetime of whatever, everyone, everything fucks you up a little bit, right? So it was probably just my time, but it took me a long time to come around to the idea of allowing myself to go and see a counselor of struggling with how that would make me feel or look being weak or, you know, I couldn't do it myself. I've got to kind of like keep going, don't seek help, just work harder. You can go and really get into that and it really can take you quite low. So yeah, I'd say, It is a brave thing to seek help. It's not a weak thing to do that because, I mean, fundamentally, you're trying to avoid it because you're scared of doing it. So if you can find that bravery and try and find someone, I mean, there are counselors. You can just search a website. Some of them are means-tested, so you don't have to spend too much. Again, I mean, maybe just... try and reach out to some people, you know, just have a chat and you can be as cautious and around the edges as you like, but just try and talk. Usually just talking and stuff can help. I mean, the negative of that is when I think let's go meet up with a friend, I think beer or cider, I think let's go have a drink. and that's not necessarily the way to go. So actually this is something that I'm dealing with at the moment. I met up with a friend last night, we went for a run along the waterfront and we were very actively trying not to have a drink with each other, just catch up, hang out, do something positive, not something that might be detrimental to our kind of physical mental health. So yeah, it's an interesting thing. We're simultaneously making and focusing alcohol, trying to sell alcohol, but also we can get stuck in that trap of maybe having a little too much and using it as a crutch. And that is a danger and one that I think about quite a lot.

SPEAKER_03:

Beyond individual experience, alcohol has played a huge role in shaping societies across Asia and the world for thousands of years. Alcohol isn't just something that affects individuals or families. It's been part of human culture for thousands of years. In China, people were making alcohol as far back as 9,000 years ago, and the first evidence of distal spirit dates back over 3,000 to Shang Dynasty. This shows that drinking has long been wound into our traditions, shaping our communities and identities over many generations. Paul Jones

SPEAKER_04:

It's an incredibly hard thing to manage and it really takes a lot of effort. I think the easiest thing is to go with the flow and to say yes to all of the social invites and yes to someone raising a glass to say cheers, bottoms up, whatever it is. It's really, really, really hard to put yourself first. So many of us in our social lives, you know, we kind of learn to meet people in the middle or go with the flow of the crowd. And in a beer setting, too often that's going to be you drinking more than you really need to, want to or should. I spent most of my 20s completely sober. I didn't drink, I didn't do any drugs. I lived a mostly clean, very spiritual focused lifestyle. So on occasions, I feel like I have a bit of capacity. I didn't damage my body in a decade when people would usually be thinking very little about the ramifications later on in their life. Now for these past 10 years, I'm 45 years old, I started working in craft beer at 35, and I'd already been, I would say, a very big supporter of beer. for some years before that. It is a big, big challenge to manage. What I think is really important is, first of all, get yourself checked up regularly by your doctor. If you're scared to do that, there's probably something that you really need to address. So I think being willing to access healthcare and to talk to medical professionals about how much you're consuming, whether that's already displaying any ill effects on your body. And of course, not all of the ill effects of alcohol are visible before it's too late, but often they are. So I think like engage in healthcare, track how much alcohol you're drinking. You're probably drinking two or three times more than you estimate. If you're hanging out with other beer people, that doesn't feel weird. That feels normal. It's not normal. Most people do not drink anywhere near as much as we drink in the industry. So spend more time with people that aren't working in beer socially. I think the combination of tactics that I now employ, I also focus on having some extended periods without alcohol each year. I focus on having... plenty of days during the week where I don't even sip some alcohol for tasting. For some years when I was tasting beer in the brewery professionally, I would spit the beer like a wine taster. There used to be this stupid myth that you have to drink beer in order to properly taste it. It's just not true. So you don't actually have to consume any beer to be really good at making it and to be really good at knowing what's going on. And you have to put your health in a higher position in your life. You have to put your health first. So I think whatever combination of routines you need to establish that help you make that connection with your body as an organism that needs protecting by your mind, do that. Usually every morning during the week, the first thing that I do is I visit the gym and work out. And that's not just because I care about lifting weights, but it's kind of me making that mental connection with I need to care for myself. And that has to be something that I do on a daily basis and not that I'm just waiting down the line to fix it. So, you know, The other thing that I'm doing more recently, but it's been very, very effective. If I'm nervous about the social settings that I'm going to be part of, and I'm nervous about people not honoring what I want to do, whether that is sobriety or whether that's, hey, I want to come for a beer. And I don't mean a beer that leads to 10. I really just mean a beer. I'm mostly texting people and telling them that ahead of time. And I'm usually saying, this is what I'm going to do. I need you to support me because otherwise it's very easy to slide back down that slope again and, oh, go on, just have another. You know, we all want to extend the fun and extend the experiences with each other. So, yeah, I think working in the industry, it is a very dangerous place if you already have some vulnerabilities that make substance abuse already a part of your life or a risk in your life, you have to put a lot of energy and a lot of practice into being safe. And again, your context is not what your colleagues are doing. Your context is what your doctor's advocating for, what wider society is advocating for. So make a balance with that rather than make a balance with just your coworkers or your peers. And when you say no, try to stick to it. Don't beat yourself up if you slip, but definitely challenge yourself, have periods of sobriety, make sure that when you set your limit, you practice sticking with that and kind of build that muscle if you like. and, you know, put your health at the top. It's really important.

SPEAKER_03:

Let me tell you a bit about my background and how alcohol played a unique role in the history of my people. Russia is a multi-ethnic country with over 190 recognized ethnic groups, and I'm one of them. My ethnicity is called Yakutian. Back in the day when Russians invaded our land, There was a big war, and we lost. That's why we ended up taking Russian names and adopting the Russian religion. Here's an interesting fact. If you split the word Yakut in two, you'll get

UNKNOWN:

,

SPEAKER_03:

which means me in Russian, and

UNKNOWN:

,

SPEAKER_03:

which means pour more in Yakutian. So together, it will sound like me pour more. The story goes that when Russian first brought alcohol to our people, who had never tried it before. They liked it so much that they kept asking for more. The Russian not understanding the language started calling us Yakut or Yakutian, but we actually call ourselves Saha. So alcohol isn't just a personal or family issue. It's wound into our history and identity in ways back Scott Powery

SPEAKER_07:

For me, drinking is, it kind of was emotional too, especially in a brewery when you're having a tough day. It's very easy to just, like you said, just pour yourself a beer. And there were so many days you can always almost talk yourself into tasting a new beer. You're upset about something drinking right as soon as the shift's done. And in all honesty, like it's, when I was one of the owners, so my shift never ended. I mean, everybody might clock out, but then I would have to stay and do everything clean something carb something get something ready for the next day because otherwise it wouldn't have gotten done or wouldn't have been ready and you know once we had brian and some of the the other crew they would stay with me all night sometimes just kind of prepping things fixing problems there's always something broken at a brewery um so we were all drinking a lot and you don't i think you kind of lose touch with that not being the norm because everybody in craft beer drinks let you go to events on the weekends especially you know if you have a brand And you're always sort of doing something on weekends, drinking related. You're always selling beer. And when people are with you, they see you as a person that is the guy that drinks beer and the guy that, you know, so they're always giving you beers to try. And so, man, you drank every day, it seemed. And yeah, I recognize the problem being that I could drink tremendous amounts of beer and not really kind of feel like people around me would be destroyed drunk and i'd just be oh this is just a normal day and i recognize that as a problem because then i started recognizing that i i really couldn't go a day without having a beer because i didn't want to or i didn't need to and i think that for me i mean i never i wouldn't consider myself an alcoholic because i could stop um especially when i needed to to kind of get work done but it's a slippery slope and i do think that people underestimate how much beer you can drink or how little beer you can drink and it cause a problem with your health especially over the course of 10 12 years i know matt was a great guy but as we know he passed away because of his drinking problem and he was not healthy up until that point and there was so it's a it's a thing where a lifetime of doing craft beer is so many great memories and so much fun and but it comes at some point with a price tag especially when you come with this beer and all this alcohol i wish the i wish there was something else in beer that made it healthy but it's just not and so you yeah i think a lot of people i'm sure you've talked to a few people that you know the drinking thing is kind of a really it's a difficult one and it's something that everybody has to handle in their own little way and it's different for everyone i would say for me i have to put a hard stop on you know how what day i'm drinking and what day i'm not And because if you, you know, I used to like to say, oh, only when there's a good reason to. And that's ridiculous because you can almost invent a reason every day. So for me, the best thing was like, I'm going to drink on the Friday with good with friends. And, you know, and the other end of it is I work out a lot and I try to stay fit because I find that to be a very big part of my life and my health. And Knowing how hard I work out and how many calories are in a beer, you better really make sure that what you put to your lips is going to be something that you really want or it really tastes good because you're paying for it one way or another. And so that's why, for me, those are the two things. I try to make sure it's good beer, good times, a very good reason for drinking it, and I try to limit it to being on specific days. My mom was always also clear. I remember having this conversation when I was 15 or 14 where she said, alcoholism runs in our family. You need to be aware of it. And it was always brought up as a theme throughout my life because she would see me going out and partying and things like that, and it never seemed to be an issue. But I did lose two uncles to alcoholism. They had quite literally a drink themselves to death. And then it's also been an ongoing theme in my family where we drink real heavy at events and and in lots of day-to-day things. But I think we've mastered the functioning alcoholic thing where you can still get your stuff done, but they've also paid the price for their health. We've got a lot of diabetes. We've also had, whether it's linked or not, Parkinson's in our family. And I do feel like, A, an unhealthy diet, but then also, or unhealthy lifestyle, but also heavy drinking. It all plays a part in all of it. So for me, that's kind of what I think how alcoholism has touched me. And Yeah, and I recognize that I go on sprees where I go months on end and I'm really having a good time, but then I stop to reflect like, you know, normal people don't drink this much. And, you know, normal cases, it's abnormal to drink that much. But because you're in an industry that sort of makes it seem all right, then you're okay or, you know, you're doing this for work. But in reality, I don't think that's quite the case.

SPEAKER_03:

Now you might be wondering what is actually going on in your body when you have a drink. Here's a quick look at the science behind alcohol's effects. When you drink alcohol, it's quickly absorbed into your blood through the stomach and small intestine. And because it's mixed easily with both of water and fat, it spreads to every part of your body, including your brain. In the liver, alcohol is first turned into acetaldehyde, which is a toxic chemical that can damage your cells and DNA. And then it's broken down further into acetate, which is less harmful. Alcohol affects your brain by boosting GABA, which makes you feel relaxed and sleepy, and by blocking glutamate, which slows your thinking and memory. So GABA, it's gamma-aminobutyric acid. It is a chemical messenger in your brain called neurotransmitter. Its main job is to slow things down in your nerve system. It acts like a brake, calming the brain and helping you to feel relaxed and less anxious. And the glutamate is another neurotransmitter, but it does the opposite of GABA. Glutamate acts like an accelerator, exciting nerve cells and making them more likely to send signals. It's important for learning, memory, and keep brain active and alert. So once again, alcohol affects your brain by boosting GABA, which makes you feel relaxed and sleepy, and by blocking glutamate, which slows your thinking and memory. At first, alcohol can make you feel happy, but over time, it messes with your brain's mood and reward system, leading to dependence. It also lowers your self-control, so you're more likely to take risks or make bad decisions. Even if you don't feel or look drunk, alcohol is still putting stress onto your body and can cause serious health problems over the time. I just thought maybe this information will help you make healthier decisions. Chris Wong.

SPEAKER_06:

Alcoholism, right? Yeah, for me, it's, yeah. Personally, I... When I see a beer in the fridge, yeah, I have a hard time stopping my hand for reaching it to start with, especially in this industry, right? Because we're so close to beer, you always are vulnerable to just having way too many beers. Interestingly, it rarely happens at work because as most brewers go to work, they want to finish early. So you really zone in and focus on your work. But after work, you're like, oh yeah, I made beer. Let's have a beer. And then you have two beers, three beers, four beers, five beers. It becomes, it affects my time when I hang out with my kid. It affects my time when I should be or should or should not be working at night the productivity and health personally i've tried to i am a person that i has very little self-control on on intake both food and and alcohol so i've learned over the years the only way to for me to balance it is to pick up healthier hobbies where i then Actually it happened, yeah, my second year into the beer business, I started just running. So it became like a habit that I carry on for religiously almost for every day. So every day I run five kilometers. And if I don't do the five kilometers, I would not drink that day. It's kind of become, it's like, hey, I'm taking something, then I have to give something back to my body. And it becomes a great time for me to meditate, get things done. So for me, that becomes a very nice balance and relationship. And because I have to run early in the morning, and I became a slightly more, what I call a responsible person at night. because I remember that if I don't run, I'll feel miserable next day. So no matter what you do, how many beers I drink at night, I need to be able to go run at the day. I think some colleagues, old colleagues of yours could testify. I think one time I missed my morning run. So halfway doing an event, during a beer event, I was like, oh, this beer event's quite boring. I have a one-hour gap. Let me go run. So I went out for a run while my two colleagues were presenting the beer to the customers. And I came back, picked up, and then continued to do it. So yes, picking up nice habits is personally my way to keep myself in check. But yes, it's alcoholism. Yeah, it's there for me as well. Like personally, one beer, two beer, three beer, four beer. I have a favorite doctor that told me I can have 21 beers a week and I'll be perfectly healthy. So I live by this doctor's comment. Maybe other doctors would disagree, but I do the 21 beers and I run the 5K every day. Then I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Listening to those stories really made me reflect on my own relationship with alcohol. And if you know me personally, you know I'm not a big girl. I weight about 60 kilos, but I can drink a lot. Maybe it's a luck, maybe it's a curse. I don't get Asian blush either, and I can keep up with pretty much anyone. That does not make any less of a problem. I want to bring attention to the fact that you are not alone if you're struggling with alcohol. The first step is admitting you have a problem and deciding to face it. So,

SPEAKER_01:

the problem with alcohol is a very common thing in the world, but specifically in our beer industry, in our beer world, well, there is multiple factors. First of all, it's so... accessible. Our work is linked to the, I would say, daily alcohol consumption. We need to taste the beer. It doesn't have to be the final product, like a cold, nice pilsner that you can drink. It has to be like a beer that's still fermenting, but it's already in alcohol. Or the sensory program that needs to be followed. Also, it's about tasting the barrel-aged stuff. The human body, the human mind, unfortunately, is very weak. it's very easy to get addicted to that or alcohol consumption can become kind of your lifestyle, which is kind of okay from the business perspective for us, but truly saying we need to take care more about our body, take care about our health, both like a physical health and the mental health and alcohol can be our friend one day, but become the biggest enemy the following day. Well, myself included, I can say openly I faced this problem, especially in the very beginning of my brewing career here in Hong Kong. As I said, I was very hungry, I was very thirsty for the knowledge, for the different flavors, and I was so surprised how Hong Kong beer industry is so well developed. even by the time of 2018-19, it was like a top class worldwide, globally. It was and it is, and I hope it will be. It's like the top, best quality. And imagine me, myself, very young, who came here and I'm having like a limited amount of this. And of course I was thirsty, I was hungry to taste everything, every single day, as I was calling it my homework. to have a couple of cans every single day after I finish my work and have a can or two just to taste, to analyze, to make some notes. But it's very quickly became a habit. And it's actually thanks to my wife that she pointed out that my homework from a couple of cans became up to six, seven cans in a day. She did it in a very nice polite in the correct way she said maybe you are starting to have a problem without saying i i'm starting to have a problem she was complaining that oh the smell in the in the bedroom is is horrible because you're of the alcoholic operation because the alcohol breath said like maybe you should reduce your beer consumption to maybe it's like a couple of cans and then she asked me to reduce to like having like one one night out due to different circumstances the beer consumption was increasing in my life due to stressful work that we needed to work long hours a standing job like a heavy lifting very sweaty and right behind the the door there is a cold room with a nice cold beer and of course it's very attractive and and i said before your the nice cold beer can be your best friend at one stage or become your biggest enemy and a crucial factor in your life in another circumstances so um right now I have totally accept that there is a social alcoholism. Alcoholism, it doesn't mean that you getting drunk up to, you don't remember anything. If someone is drinking like once, twice in a week, but it's like a tradition, it's also already an alcoholism. Any type like of a consistent consumption of any substances, it's already kind of an addiction. And the best thing that we can do is either quit it completely or try to control it. I have pick the second thing. I'm trying to work out my health and my consumption on the way. I don't want to just quit drinking because I love drinking. And all I want to do is make sure that I'm healthy enough to have a long life without having any health problems. And therefore I need to control myself. I need to make sure that I'm having my dry months or I'm cleaning my Let's talk

SPEAKER_03:

for a moment about what alcohol actually does to your body from a nutritional standpoint. Alcohol is often called empty calories. as calories that provide energy, but very little or no nutritional value, meaning they lack essential nutrients like vitamin, minerals, fiber, or protein. The body can use alcohol for immediate energy, but it can't store it in a beneficial way. And the process of metabolizing alcohol is metabolically costly. It can slow down your metabolism for other foods, making it more likely that what you eat alongside alcohol gets stored as fat. In summary, alcohol gives you calories without any of the nutrients your body actually needs, which is why it's called empty calories. bad gatherer

SPEAKER_02:

i've done a dry january once um and i succeeded in my attempt for a dry january but um i didn't feel particularly positive about it and it wasn't because oh i i needed a drink and whatnot a lot of the times when i drink you know i like to drink beers because um especially crappies because there's such a broad spectrum of flavor profiles and i and i find that exciting and i like to drink red wine because I think, you know, the way it complements a meal and whatnot, I think is lovely. And so I struggled with it, not because I wanted to have alcohol, but because I missed having broad sets of flavors be a part of my day. And I didn't know how to replace that. So maybe I should have looked at other ways of bringing, you know, kind of different flavor profiles into my day. I don't know. We are seeing many more people limiting the way that they drink in our customer base at The Globe. We have a nice selection of alcohol-free options. What do we have? We have a lager. We have a local pale ale. We have Guinness Zero, which is super popular. We have an alcohol-free cider. It's interesting. There's a few things that we're noticing with the alcohol-free sales. In the past, perhaps 10 years ago, the people that drank alcohol-free beer were people that were, to my understanding, were people that didn't drink anymore. I can't drink, maybe for health reasons, maybe for dependency reasons, but I don't drink anymore, and they would have an alcohol-free beer. And now we're seeing different things where people are using the alcohol-free beers to moderate a bit more and we might have somebody come in and they'll have two different beers from our guest tap list and then they'll have two alcohol-free beers and then they might have one more beer that has alcohol and then they'll go home i see and so they've been out with their friends for four or five or six beers but they've only had two or maybe three alcoholic beverages maybe it's because uh they have calls in the evening you know we're quite an international city maybe it's because They want to have a meal with their family without being intoxicated. Maybe it's because they don't want to get too intoxicated anymore. So it's interesting to see the way that it's changed. I think the stigma has changed as well. I know in the past when we started expanding our alcohol-free products, we did quite a bit of discussions and training among the team about how to introduce them to a table. So using Hong Kong Beer Co's No Limits pale ale, that's the air alcohol-free pale ale. Using that as an example is when we delivered the beer to a table, we would make a point of not saying to a table of four guys, oh, who's having the non-alcoholic pale ale? we would introduce it as who's having Hong Kong Beer Co. No Limits. And the person that ordered the alcohol-free can say, yep, that's mine. And the other people at the table might not know that it's an alcohol-free product. And so you kind of remove that little bit of social stigma of your friends going, oh my God, I can't believe you're not having a beer. But more so now, that's not necessary. And we have people who are quite happy to have alcohol that are coming in and ordering the Guinness Zero. because they heard it was really good. And now they just enjoy having that drink. So a lot of that stigma is being removed, which is nice to see.

SPEAKER_03:

Speaking of making healthy choices, let's talk about the world of non-alcoholic drinks. There are absolutely no shame in choosing non-alcoholic drinks. If anything, it's something to be proud of. I encourage everyone to give them a try, whether you're taking a break, pacing yourself, or just curious about new flavors. Personally, I do dry months every six months, and it's opened up a whole new world of great non-alcoholic beers. Some of my favorite ones are Guinness Zero and No Limits of Hong Kong Beer Company. But there are so many more options out there if you look for them. Don't let anyone make you feel awkward for making choices that's right for you. Explore, enjoy, and maybe you'll find a new favorite too. Chris White.

SPEAKER_10:

You know, I didn't think much about it in my 20s or 30s. Maybe my 40s, I started thinking about it. And I started doing days with no alcohol. And then I would ask people, you know, all my friends are in the business. And they'd be like, what are you talking about? No, you don't take days. It was just, you're fine. But as we all got older, some of those same people who said, But you don't have to do that. Started doing it. And I had a good friend who was always having acid reflux.

SPEAKER_08:

And

SPEAKER_10:

so he was always popping these acid reflux pills and other things. And it wasn't until his 50s, he did like a week with no alcohol. Just one week. And all of a sudden, the acid reflux went away.

SPEAKER_08:

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_10:

It's like, oh, there's something to this. It's inflammatory, right? So a lot of these inflammation type of things can be calmed down. I would really encourage everyone to just try to take a week off and see how you feel. I've been a type one diabetic most of my life, so I do lots of blood work. And I noticed when I do a week, two weeks, it only doesn't take that long. Your blood work gets better. triglycerides go down things that you wouldn't think are related to alcohol but they are uh so your blood chemistry gets better you sleep better uh doing a month is great i just do i do like a week a month like one week a month and that's pretty effective but i think as you get older as i get older like i probably have to do longer times like that and um Now you might have

SPEAKER_03:

heard or seen something called Asian Blush or Asian Glow. Let's talk about what that actually is and why it's happening. Asian blush or Asian flush is when some people of East Asian descent turn red after drinking alcohol. This happens because of the genetic change that makes their body less able to break down a toxic byproduct of alcohol called acetaldehyde. Normally, when you drink, your body first uses enzymes called alcohol dehydrogenase to turn alcohol into acetaldehyde. Then a second enzyme called aldehyde dehydrogenase or ALDH2 is supposed to quickly break down acetaldehyde into something harmless. For people who get Asian blush, the ALDH2 enzyme doesn't work well. So acetaldehyde builds up in their body, causing their skin to flush and sometimes leading to other symptoms like nausea and fast heartbeat. Well,

SPEAKER_05:

I think you just nailed it on the head. Whereas for us as manufacturers and working in this, it's so easy to just be like, pick up a beer and go home. You just nailed it on the head. And I think that's the most important thing. In this industry, it's a tough thing. I come from... My father was an alcoholic. I come from an alcoholic family. I've made poor choices with alcohol. I'm not going to lie in my life. I think I'm lucky where I've gotten to the age where it's like, you know what? It's just not fun anymore. You know, like hangovers aren't fun, but it goes into a whole nother aspect of mental health. My job now is visually seeing when I see one of my employees suffering and they're masking it. And they're hiding it. It's not cool anymore. It's not. Like I mentioned to you before, saying about, oh, you're not a true brewer until you've had a failed relationship. But that extends into the mental health. I... You know, I mean, I'm in therapy. I've seen a therapist, I mean, since I've been in Hong Kong, about my past traumas and things and trying to understand, you know, and it's always hard too. As manufacturers, you go to the doctor. What's the first thing they ask you when you go to the doctors? Do you drink? And then how much do you drink? Then it goes downhill from there. Because what do you say to the doctor? And I mean, I've been through doctors, I've been through therapists. Back in the United States, I didn't find a good therapist until I came to Hong Kong. Back in the United States, I'd find a therapist, and then eventually I got pushed into basically AA. Because it's like, well, do you drink alcohol? Well, look, I manufacture beer as a living. I drink more than the average person. Now you're trying to justify it. When you try to justify it, that makes you look like you're an alcoholic. It took me quite a long time to understand or to admit mental health is an important thing. And all of it plays into together alcohol, mental health, what you do, your past traumas. And then like I said before, again, coming from having an alcoholic father, I always have to keep myself in check. You have to admit if you think you have a drinking problem, I've admitted it to myself, like, oh, I think I might be going a bit overboard. You know, there's nothing wrong with seeing a therapist. There's nothing wrong with it. It took me quite a long time and a therapist to finally have a breakthrough and be like, wow, this is, I've had a pretty fucked up life, you know, and it's okay. you know so i think my advice is one is admitting anything whether it's you have a drinking problem or if it's two you have trauma you know and not being you know not trying to hide it in some sort of manly way if you want to call it that you know uh And then I think changes need to be made in the health industry about how it's paid for. I mean, I had the best health insurance here in Hong Kong, still didn't pay for my therapist. That's a whole other topic.

SPEAKER_03:

As we talk about all these different aspects of alcohol, let's not overlook the importance of mental health and emotional well-being. Remember, you don't have to face personal challenges alone. If you ever feel overwhelmed or need someone to talk to, reaching out to a mental health professional or a therapist is a healthy and positive step. Taking care of your mental health is just as important as looking after your physical health, so don't hesitate to seek support when you need it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I think it's certainly something that that is not talked about often enough. And while not entirely unique to our industry, of course, it is more, for obvious reasons, more prevalent, as you said, the ease of access and so on and so forth. And over the years, we've all seen examples of people falling into that trap, particularly when they were more difficult or trying times whether it was a pandemic and so on and so forth so i think uh at young master at least you know we hope we have created uh an open system where people are able to a culture where people are able to talk to each other and be each other's support system i think that is extremely important and also having uh to your point like an inclusive sort of uh culture where people feel comfortable talking about it and not judged if they have problem that confronts them. We've certainly over the years had to deal with few examples of those and I think the way through it is to kind of strike the right balance and encourage people around you to do the same and practice the same as well. My observation industry-wide and also within Young Master is that Recent years, there has been, I think the health focus that you talked about amongst young people, I think that is a broader theme, which is very encouraging. We are seeing more positive changes with non-alcoholic beer being available, people focusing on health and exercise and other things as much as they do on enjoyment. I think what we produce is high quality and it should be treated with respect. and not abused. So I think that realization, I think more and more people are starting to have, which is great to see and very encouraging to see. But we need to strive to make sure that we have broadly in the industry, a culture of open sharing and supporting each other if people are going through some challenges of their own.

SPEAKER_03:

Before we finish, for this episode, I actually attended an AA meeting here in Hong Kong. Not because I wanted to quit drinking, but to better understand what the experience is like and to hear firsthand how people deal with alcohol in their lives. It was important for me to see things from a different perspective and to share this insight with you. From the moment I walked in, everyone was incredibly welcoming and supportive. It was a pretty big group, about 30 to 35 people in a room, mostly older men. But to my surprise, there were quite a few younger women as well. One thing I noticed was that almost everyone was smoking non-stop. I guess when you quit drinking, some people look for something else to fill the gap. Since I was the newcomer, And they haven't had a new face in a while. They started with the first rule admitting you have a problem. People took turns sharing the stories and many talked about struggles not just with alcohol but with other substances too. Some of the stories were honestly pretty intense. People ending up in jail, ruining their families, or blacking out and waking up surrounded by empty bottles, unable to remember how they even got them. What really stood out to me is that if you need this kind of help, it's out there and available. If you're curious or feel like you might need support, I'll leave information in the description for this episode. You're not alone and there are people ready to help. I believe there are only two ways to have a healthy relationship with alcohol. One is learning to moderate, making an honest deal with yourself to drink less or only on special occasions and actually stick into it. The other is choosing to say no to alcohol altogether, which can be a big change. Sometimes that means you might need to find new friends or social circle that supports your decision. It's not always easy, but both paths are valid. And what matters the most is finding what truly works for you. I want to be clear, I'm not here to tell you who is or is not alcoholic or say to you you should limit or stop drinking altogether. I'm not a doctor. I'm not offering medical advice. My goal with this episode is simply to acknowledge that as a society, we do have a complicated relationship with alcohol. As we wrap up this episode, I want to remind you that everyone is fighting their own battles, even the people who seem to have it altogether You are not alone in facing challenges. We all go through tough times, and none of us are that special when it comes to life's ups and downs. I hope you found this episode both educational and interesting, and maybe even learned something new about yourself. For me, I think I found my middle ground. I still love a good beer, but I don't think I can do it again. but I choose to moderate and keep things balanced. Remember to check on your health, make it priority, and if you're looking for a supportive community, come work out with me and my friends at CrossFit Typhoon. Don't be afraid to order a non-alcoholic beer, drink a glass of water after each drink, and always eat before heading out to an event. Life is all about balance. Learn to say no when you need to and be kind of friend who respects boundaries instead of pushing for... Come on, just one more. Support each other, look out for one another, and let's make choices that keep us healthy and connected. Thanks for listening to Asia on Tap. Take care of yourself and see you next time.