Highlights from 2026 Packaging Recycling Summit: Packaging World

What were some of the biggest takeaways from the summit?

Senior Editor, Anne Marie Mohan, sits down with representatives from Google, Nestlé, Kenvue, and Just Born Quality Confections to discuss paperization, sustainable design, and AI as EPR preparation tool.

Find live coverage from the summit on Packaging World.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Welcome to Through the Line, a podcast exploring innovations and information across the packaging and processing landscape. From topics impacting consumer packaged goods and healthcare packaging to the latest technologies and food processing operations.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Hi, I'm Matt Reynolds, editor of Packaging World magazine, here with my colleague Anne-Marie Lowen. We are here in Rosemont, Illinois, outside of Chicago at the fourth annual packaging recycling summit. I've been on stage for four days. We've seen some really cool stuff, spoken to some really cool and high-up people at major brands, recyclers, MERFs, and so on. So meanwhile, you've been here actually interviewing them one-on-one. So who have you spoken to? What have you found out?

SPEAKER_06 0:46

Well, I've spoken to several people as they came off the stage and really delve deeper into some of the things they had to say in their presentations and panels. And we talked about a few different strategies and things that are going on in the CPG world. I talked to Charlotte Ashcraft. She's with Just Born Confections, and she gave a really interesting presentation on how Just Born is handling their EPA data gathering. And it was just one of the best examples I've seen of a small company trying to tackle this large problem. I also talked to Gayatri Keskar of Penview, and she talked about how they've really changed their whole attitude and strategy around packaging design for sustainability as well as meaning other functions at the same time. And some exciting news about their work with Gray Parrot using AI in the sorting facilities to really see what's going through the system. And then I spoke with Eric Bell and Joey Giacomini of Nestle and Google, respectively, about some of the innovations they've been doing around paper packaging or switch from plastic to paper and some of the challenges that they encountered in doing that.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Interesting. Yeah, well, all of those folks were speakers on our stage, and I can tell you from the green room, just in the beginning mic'd up and discussions after these presentations. They all are speakers. We brought them in to teach the audience, but every one of them, almost to a person, indicated that they were learning something here. So they came here to teach us, but I think that's the intention of this event to share ideas to get a lot of different ideas in the same room from different stakeholders to cross-pollinate. And according to some of the biggest names at some of the biggest brands, we did that just that here at PRS year four. So let's dive right into some of the interviews that Anne-Marie conducted recently.

SPEAKER_06 2:41

Hello, I'm Ann-Marie Mohan. I'm with Packaging World. And I'm here today live at the Packaging Recycling Summit, which is a packaging world event. And I'm here with Charlotte Ashcraft. She's the senior manager of packaging and graphics development at Just Born Quality Confections. And Charlotte just got off the stage talking about how JustBorn started working through the EPR process at her company. And she's going to share that with us a little bit here. So welcome, Charlotte. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And thank you for your wonderful presentation. I think one of the really relatable points you made was that when you started, you really spent so much time trying to understand all these different policies and what was different, you know, what was the same. And there are so many different nuances to these different legislations. But then it became more of a question of packaging data. So for those CPGs that are still trying to understand what EPR means for their business, could you describe more about when that shift came?

SPEAKER_05 3:50

Yeah, so I think you're exactly right, and I mentioned it on stage, but I approached this by just trying to understand every nuance, every regulation, every state difference, attend every webinar, and it was so overwhelming. And when I really felt like I had a good grasp of what was happening, something else would change. So I think once I finally took a step back and was like, okay, what are all of these states really truly asking? I realized all of them were asking for some version of the same information. And that really needed to come from our packaging data. So I think once I had that realization is really when everything shifted for us.

SPEAKER_06 4:27

Okay. And you talked about the fact that companies don't have to wait until they have a perfect system or they have a full EPR team to get started. What were some of the first data points you knew you had to get under control and where did that information live inside the company?

SPEAKER_05 4:45

Yeah, so we really needed two main data points, and that was our sales volume and our packaging weight by component. And for the sales volume, we're actually using the population-based method, not because it's perfect, but because it's transparent and it's consistent, and it just makes things a lot easier because we lose the chain of custody on our products when it hits our customers' distribution center. So we're using the population method, and that's one data point that we need. And then we really needed to pull together our packaging weight by component. And at the time when you know EPR was really starting to emerge a few years ago, we did not have a clean source of all of that information. It lived in various places, different specifications. Some had, some were just with our suppliers, some were in documents that couldn't even be opened in a modern version of Microsoft anymore. So everything was completely scattered. And I also didn't trust the name of it was correct because we had made so many changes. I've been there 10 years, and there were some documents I had never even opened, and I knew how much had changed since I had been there. So we really needed to start by just completely wiping the slate clean and starting fresh. So I actually had an intern a few years ago, and she came in and completely audited our whole packaging portfolio. And it seems so monotonous, but it was the most important part of this process was making sure that we trusted our data and that the data was really correct. So she audited all of that, and that's how we built out the whole database.

SPEAKER_06 6:07

Okay. And you talked about the spreadsheet that you're using, and you said, you know, it's nothing fancy, it's an Excel spreadsheet. But could you talk a little bit more about that, that model? And you talked a lot about some of the things that you were able to see once you had all that data in that spreadsheet that you weren't able to see before, and that became more clear to you. Could you talk a little bit about that too?

SPEAKER_05 6:33

Sure. Yeah, so you're right. It's really nothing fancy. It's just taking our state volume, so the prorated value of our annual volume and multiplying that by a standardized weight per case. So the way I'm creating that standardized weight per case is I'll take our primary packaging and multiply that by the case count, and that tells me how much primary packaging is in each case. And then if a state collects tertiary packaging or transport packaging, I'll divide that by the pallet count. And that's how I allocate a portion of those materials also to each case. So then I can add my primary packaging materials, secondary, and unit load all into one and create one kind of standardized version. So I can take that number and multiply it by the prorated value of our volume in each state, and that generates how much of each material type I'm creating. And I keep all of those separate until the very end of the spreadsheet. So that way I can manipulate much easier for each state when a new state comes on board. So I don't add all of the fiber-based materials until I get to the very end. Because if a state wants corrugate separated from paperboard, I don't want to have to go back and separate those eventually. So I don't add them till the end.

SPEAKER_06 7:39

I think was that all of the questions that you had? Well, we talked a little bit, or you talked more about once you had all that data spread out before you that you were able to then use it as like a forecasting thing.

SPEAKER_05 7:53

Yeah, that's so good. Yeah. So once we had that, I was able to see, you know, what materials are not recyclable today. And that's really kind of the heart of what we need to do for SD54 in advance of 2032 and all of the planning work that we need to do. So I can see what parts of our portfolio are going to be much more challenging to change over than others, and I can start using that to plan out the validation work. So the much more challenging projects, we need to start those now. Whereas the much easier projects that are we already have some sort of substrate that's viable, we can hold those off until we're done with the validation work on the more challenging ones.

SPEAKER_06 8:29

So that's how we're using it for a lot of our long-term department planning. Okay, okay. And you mentioned too something that I think is probably common with a lot of CPGs, and that is the struggle with the chain of custody issues. You know how much you're putting out in the market, but you may not know exactly state by state where things end up. And so how did you approach that gap and what makes an assumption defensible? You talked about this.

SPEAKER_05 8:58

Yeah, so we're just using the population method and it's defensible because it's transparent and it's consistent. So if I'm consistent across every state, I think that is much more defensible than, well, I think it might be this for California and I think it might be that for Oregon. So if it's truly transparent and it's based on publicly available data, that's what means defensible for me. And for anyone who hasn't submitted an EPR report, you actually have to list out your entire justification on how you came up with those volumes within your report when you're submitting to the CAA. So I'm able to describe that very easily, my methodology for the calculations. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 9:36

And for CPGs out there, you said, you know, it doesn't have to be perfect, you just have to get started. So what is the most important thing you would advise that they get started with? And just as important, what should they not waste their time with during that first year, their first reporting cycle?

SPEAKER_05 9:54

I think the most important thing is if you don't have your data, find data that you do trust and figure out what data you need to create. Because if you don't have that data foundation, you can't trust your model or your formulations or your outputs, and then therefore your fees are incorrect. So I think really just starting with the data foundation and making sure you trust it is where you need to start. I would not try to understand every regulation because you know, once you have that foundation that I'm talking about, you can derive almost anything that you made out of it. And so start with the foundation, don't try to understand everything because you'll also burn yourself out and overwhelm yourself, as I did initially. Let's start with that. And, you know, don't try to cast a net too wide, but cast the net that you know you can control. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 10:41

I think that was one of the biggest learnings I got out of your presentation was that the ins and outs of every policy, those aren't as important to understand. It's yeah, getting that data, and then you can plug it in where it needs to be plugged in. Yeah. I've seen so many iCarts with, you know, it's this in this state and this in this state. So yeah, excellent advice. Yeah. So thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_05 11:09

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_06 11:10

I appreciate it. Hi, I'm Ann-Marie Mohan. I'm senior editor with Packaging World. And I'm here with Joey Giacomini. He is the packaging design engineer lead at Google. And Joey just spoke on a panel about paperization, which is a huge topic and generating a lot of interest and enthusiasm right now. So he's going, he's joining us to tell us a little more about some of the points he raised during the panel discussion. And first of all, I think what's amazing is that in 2020, Google announced that it wanted to go plastic-free with its hardware packaging by 2025. And you just told me that you were able to do that by 2024.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yes. Yeah. First off, thank you, Anne, for having me. And it's great to be here and talk about some fun stuff like packaging. I think so when I spoke about it, we didn't start off from all plastic, of course. But when we kicked this initiative off, we were already at 94% fiber-based packaging. Okay. And the challenge has really been that last six percent. Where a lot of that has resided in things like protective things or even just industry commodities. So you look at like a hang tab, for example, those are traditionally plastic. If you look at some protective measures, that would be your shrink wrap, maybe protective product labels, device wraps, and even plastic tape in the corners of these rigid boxes. So it was really going line item by line item and trying to see if we can find solutions for each of those places we were using plastic. Six percent doesn't seem like a lot. It was quite challenging, but I think we were fortunate to start off in a good spot. And I think that allowed us to actually reach our goal a year early, which we're really proud of. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 13:04

Okay. And I guess I'd like to step back just for a minute. Why plastic free? I think probably some people at the conference could argue that plastic isn't such a bad thing. Why was it important for Google to make that transition away from plastic?

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah, and I I think you make a good point. Plastic is ubiquitous in the industry. I don't think we're here saying plastic is even inherently not a sustainable material. I think what we're trying to avoid is mixing materials. Okay. Because it gets really confusing for the end user. So if you think of traditionally in a rigid box construction like this, it would typically have a PP lamination on it and a shrink wrap, and there's all these films that don't work very well in the recycling streams. So the way we looked at it is we don't have a huge need for a barrier like food industry or even pharmaceuticals. So for us, getting rid of plastic, getting to a more fiber-based solution really simplifies things to a single stream for our for our end user. And again, nodding to using a more natural uncoated material, I think removes a little bit of this hesitation of is this recyclable in the first place?

SPEAKER_06 14:16

Yeah. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. And we talked about, or you talked about in your panel presentation, and this is something I found really interesting, is that when people think about a consumer electronics product, they've got in mind this white perceived package that's been the norm. But you wanted to step away from that in some ways to showcase your sustainability, but also because you didn't want that polycoded paper. Yeah. And you were just saying that these constraints that Google you put on yourself to be plastic free was a constraint. And yet it led to some really interesting innovation. Could you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Yeah, absolutely. I think I spoke about the industry. When you think about what is premium, often folks will think about white pristine box, white pristine molded fiber tray. That's been the norm. And we felt like having this more natural looking feel not only helps guide you to, hey, this is a sustainable material, this is a recyclable material, but something about the imperfections and our speckled molded fiber tray with the recycled newspaper in it, this Kylie topsheet. We really like the look and feel. And then getting to what you asked about, did we find some advantages by, in essence, working through these plastic-free constraints? And the answer is yes. So this Kylie paper, I think, is like our super paper, our superpower. We found it to be stronger than what we used historically and even 70% more stretchable in the machine direction. So what we've noticed now after using this and testing it is we're able to actually use a lighter gram weight. So if historically we've used a 200 gram sun paper, for example, we've been able to actually get 160 gram Kylie paper to work for us. So that kind of takes the whole system, reduces some weight, and then again gives us that nice look and feel. Another kind of constraint that I actually just thought of now is historically we use plastic tape in the corners of these rigid boxes, which would make it a little bit challenging to break it down. Now we've transitioned to uh we we use a paper tape, it's a Bilarude paper tape, a BK paper tape, which is 120 GSM. It's actually quite easy to snap the corner and lock knock it down flat. So then if an end user does want to like flatten KDF everything to fit into the recycling, it's it's an easier process. So it's things we've found along the way of pursuing sustainability that's made us better as a whole. So fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:50

And all that RD and all that effort, you then put in a guide, a design guide, the plastic-free packaging design guide, which is available and downloadable for other brands or for anyone, basically.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 17:04

And I would suspect a lot of companies would say that's our proprietary information.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:10

Why did Google decide to share that?

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Yeah, I think what when we've thought about sustainability, something that's resonated with us is it's not a competition. It's really meant to be collaborative. And I think we've seen this at this conference today and speaking with the other panel members, is it's meant to be collaborative. Rising tide lifts all boats, all ships. We wanted to see if we could guide the industry and I think what we believe to be the right direction, give folks the tools, be transparent. We really were glad that we could get leadership behind this. And I think it makes us all better, it's better for the planet. And with we're not saying we're necessarily the expert of the industry. There's a ton of experts here, but I think we can give our story and make everyone better for it. And we've seen some other guides come out recently. I think I alluded to Microsoft's accessibility guide, which has been really interesting to learn from and look at. Um looking forward to more collaboration across the industry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:04

Yes. Thank you so much for joining us today. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 18:12

Hi, I'm Anne Marie Mohan. I'm senior editor with Packaging World. I'm here with Eric Bell, principal packaging scientist at Nestle. Welcome, Eric.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Thank you for having me, and thank you for supporting this great summit.

SPEAKER_06 18:26

Thank you, thank you. We really learn a lot ourselves through doing this. You just were on the stage talking about a really uh notable change in one of Nestle's brands, and that was Vital Proteins, where it went from an HDPE container to a paper container. And you were saying that Nestle has a lot of paperization, a lot of transitions to paper and other brands, but this was something that Vital Proteins, a newly acquired brand, wanted to do, and you brought in the expertise from the other projects. So could you expand on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Exactly. The Vital Proteins team came up with the initial idea to go into a paper canister. So it was solely an idea. They started with renderings and mock-ups, but they didn't really have a technical solution behind that. And that resulted in a little bit of misconceptions about what this canister should be, what the available technologies are, what are the costs, safety and compliance, what works for Nestle standards. So there was a little bit of time before, let's call it Legacy Nestle really got involved. And I joined the project team to come up with the ultimate solution that we delivered on, which was the GPI Bordeaux systems. So yeah, that's that's a little bit about the background, but I was able to leverage some of the learnings from the Nestle side during the initial development phase, pack development phase for the canister.

SPEAKER_06 19:58

Okay. And I understand this was not an overnight process. Can you talk a bit about how long this canister was in development and what some of the challenges were? I think you talked about the fact that it was both a materials challenge and also an equipment challenge to set that equipment up.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah, absolutely. From start to finish, and from start, I mean the project brief to when we actually commercialized with finished goods out of our doors was roughly about two years, which uh, as I mentioned, sounds like a long time, but it's really not when you talk about coming up with a technical solution, finding the technical partner. And then alongside that, it was a whole CapEx project, completely retooling and rebuilding our packaging lines in our factory to be able to handle paper canisters. So it was a lot of parallel pathing, a lot of quick decisions, leaning heavily on key stakeholders, working cross-functionally to be able to get all of the necessary feedback and opinions to be able to make decisions quickly. Those two years were exciting and they went fast, but um, but ultimately we delivered with a concept and a solution that we think really uh met the brief and is as consumer-centric as we could possibly allow it to be when you look at something like a rigid paperboard.

SPEAKER_06 21:22

Okay. So we're not talking about something like, you know, I have a six-pack of uh dog food and I'm gonna take it from a shrink wrap into a corrugated box. This is a very complex problem from the standpoint of the product inside as well as some of the channels that you're going through. Could you talk a little bit about those challenges and how you address those?

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah, so many challenges. So, with this was not an innovation. This was a true renovation, which means that all of the canisters, all the plastic canisters, all the channels which were uh some of our biggest channels. E-commerce and club channels like Costco, which both of those require vastly different requirements when you look at what's needed from a pack integrity standpoint. So when we first started looking at paper or paper board, laminated paper board specifically, we really had to develop for those channels. And just a few challenges, there are many, but once that I specifically mentioned was around the varnish development and scuffing. We knew quite early on from other projects that scuffing, specifically on our packaging lines, could be a risk. And we thought those were dealt with based on the technology solutions with the various OEMs that we chose for filling, end-of-line, conveyance, et cetera, accumulation. Some of those assumptions were right and some of those were wrong. And when we started commissioning our lines, you know, we saw that there was potentially some scuffing. When we started doing long distribution testing, going from coast to coast, we were seeing canisters were scuffing. So we really had to go back to the drawing board and collaborate with the supplier and their suppliers and their manufacturing process to really hone in a process that was scuff resistant. But then also we had to do a little bit of redesigning on our packaging lines to be able to gently handle the paper can paperboard canisters to mitigate the risk. So it was definitely a journey. You know, it's it's one of those things you don't know which which you don't know. Right. Your assumptions end up being incorrect in in some cases, but it's all about continuous improvement, root cause analysis, really trying to figure out what the issue is and checking the box and just going down the list until everybody feels comfortable with and results.

SPEAKER_06 23:46

Okay. And so there was a lot of RD involved and you know, a lot of decisions that had to be made. You get the package done, you put it out on the market. And one thing I found interesting is that you said you didn't do a lot of messaging about this new container, either on pack or otherwise, but if you did it again, you would try, you'd approach it differently. Can you talk about why that is?

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Yeah, we did we did quite a bit of consumer research, more so on how to sell this in, what do consumers think about the overall concept? Uh maybe we fell a little short on on the actual messaging on the change. And in the example that I mentioned is that some consumers actually thought that when they received a paper paper canister that that it was a counterfeit because we didn't even say same product, new packaging, same great taste. So I think we missed the mark, or at least that was a learning for us. I think maybe we were just so focused on on all executing on all the other details that maybe that was overlooked. But nonetheless, we updated the artwork to really emphasize, you know, the change itself, the benefits, which we really really lean heavily on class reduction. So from the consumer insights and research, we see that pay uh paper really resonates with consumers, paper and glass. So they inherently get that from just seeing, touching, and feeling it. So we don't need to explain necessarily what it is in that regard, but we do lean heavily on the reasons and the jobs to be done, the jobs to be done, such as keep your product fresh, uh, maintain shelf life, same product, uh, some opening instructions too, because it is a unique opening experience that is, let's say, novel in a way. So that's what we really focused on improving. But the overall goal of creating a paper canister and consumers understanding that, we delivered on that. That's without question.

SPEAKER_06 25:40

Okay. So one of the things that our annual outlook report on sustainability has shown, and this is a report that we've done two years in a row now, is that the those CPGs that have an intention to use paper, is just through the roof. And, you know, it looks like it could be an easy transition. Obviously, it's not that easy depending on the product. What kind of benefits did you get out of it? I mean, uh I think we link it to consumers, their perception of sustainability is that it's recyclable and paper, depending on whether you have a coating or not, meets that criteria. So was it just perception, or what kinds of benefits did you see from transitioning to paperboard?

SPEAKER_01 26:29

So, like I said, consumers really resonate with the plastic reductions. So when you think about vital proteins, they really innovated the collagen peptide category. It really didn't exist in what it is today, and they were a large plastic tub, and they were known as the large blue plastic tub, and we played into that. And so we find a lot of pride ourselves to try to do our part to minimize uh virgin plastic use in that. But overall, I would say the biggest win for us is that because we're dealing with paper, we really had to put quality first and foremost, which Nestle always does. We never compromise safety for consumers since we are a foods product. But with paper, that takes another notch up, if you want to say that, where everybody had to put their safety hat on. And everything from the manufacturing line to the inbound, outbound logistics to material handling, everything had to get scrutinized. And some of our standards we leaned on, some of them we had to rewrite from a packaging quality metrics to deliver consistent, consistent top quality packaging, but that's also safe and compliant and and uh maintains its overall integrity, maintains its shelf life. So I would say the benefit of just uh really leaning heavy heavily into the quality aspect. And we accomplish that in part from routines, but also through automation, which has long-term benefits. We've seen improvements on our packaging lines, on and on the outputs, and also people like to frankly work on new innovative things, and we see that from the operators up to the leadership team that everybody feels like they're doing their part, and it's fun to do that. We're in Rosemont, right outside Chicago, and our factory's in Franklin Park 15 minutes from here. So, you know, there's a little bit of pride that, you know, right down the street we're producing these canisters and we're really making a difference and trying bold new new things.

SPEAKER_06 28:24

So congratulations on a very well-done project and packaging redesign, and thank you for sharing that with us.

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Yeah, no, thank you. It's been a journey. Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 28:38

Hello, I'm Ann-Marie Mohan. I'm the senior editor with Packaging World. And I'm here with Gayatri Kesgar. She's the global packaging materials science leader at KenView, and she just got off the stage presenting on some of KenView's formulation and packaging changes and how KenView, the methodology that they're using to be more sustainable. So welcome, Gayatri. Thank you. Excited to be a good one. Thank you. So, as I just mentioned, you talked about the fact that KenView really set out to fundamentally change how you were approaching your product formulation and your packaging, and you really wanted to go from a retrospective analysis of the products and packaging to really being proactive. Can you talk a little bit about what brought that about and what that looks like?

SPEAKER_04 29:32

Absolutely. So a few years ago, we realized that we had a serious problem because sustainability was often treated as an afterthought. And the impact, environmental impact assessments, they were made fairly late in the innovation process. They were high-level, rarely data driven. So meaningful ways to improve were very hard to come because it was so late in the innovation process. So that realization led us to make sure that we are rethinking the way we are approaching our total product, so both the formulation and packaging sustainability in a way so we can put data-driven insights directly into the hands of our developers at exact moments when decisions are made. Because most of the time the decisions are made during the development process. And so those earlier decisions would help us identify areas for improvement. And this is based on our sustainability innovation profile tool that we have been working on and recently shared publicly. Okay. Yeah. It was quite an eventful journey in order to develop something at that scale. But it's such an insightful tool because it lets you compare two different formulations, two different packagings in real time, making it possible to understand the impact as you are making changes during the development process, allowing you to think holistically as you are developing both on the product and for packaging side.

SPEAKER_06 31:12

Can you talk a little bit about those innovations and some of the advantages that they brought, both sustainability and otherwise?

SPEAKER_04 31:20

Yeah, certainly. So whenever we are developing a new packaging or new product at Kenview, we want to have it based on a consumer inside, making sure that it's bringing delight and bringing superior experience for consumers. So all the three examples that I shared during the presentation, in addition to making sure that they are lowering the impact based on the ingredients or use of post-consumer recycled content, also making sure that they are recyclable at the end of life. But all that started by keeping the consumer experience at center. So for example, in case of OGX, initially the previous bottle we used was made out of PET. So it's harder to squeeze. So by changing to HGPE, we were able to make sure that actually the consumer experience is improved because it's much easier to squeeze. It requires 30% less squeezing force for dispensing or evacuating the product. On top of that, because it was also colored PET, which is not widely recyclable, so moving to HGPE gave us that natural opportunity to make sure that we can also use 100% recycled content as well as design the bottle for recyclability. So they worked side by side. It wasn't necessarily trying to compromise the consumer experience just because you're launching something which is sustainable. At the crux of it or at the center of it, is how we can improve and elevate the consumer experience. And when doing that, also do it in the most sustainable manner. So that was a really great example, and that's where the sustainable innovation profiler that we talked about just now helped us to make the impact of material change visible through carbon footprint tracking. So it gives you that quantitative way of evaluating different materials as you're making these changes, both on the formulation and the packaging side, and then allowed our team to come together with a packaging that is not just sustainable, but it's also delightful for consumers.

SPEAKER_06 33:33

I think that's a great takeaway because I think a lot of times sustainability is viewed as, you know, it's going to be more expensive and it's more about brand perception or just about recyclability, but there are so many other benefits that can be achieved by making that change that can bring in other benefits beyond sustainability. So I think that's a great takeaway. So very exciting. You announced recently that KenView is going to be partnering with AI waste analytics company Greyparrot. And uh last year at this event, they announced their Deep Nest platform, which allows brand owners to really track their packaging through a MERF to get a better understanding of what's going through, why. Can you tell me a little bit about why CanBu decided to do this and what are you hoping to achieve with this data and how are you planning on using that data?

SPEAKER_04 34:37

So, in the light of upcoming regulations, we already have seen how EPR is evolving here in the United States. Also, we have PPWR in Europe. So it's becoming more and more clear that we need to understand not just what's happening as we are developing these packaging or during the use, how the consumer interactions are influenced by our packaging decisions. But it's equally important for us to understand what happens at the end of life when the package leaves the consumer's hand and enters the real-world waste management system. Because just designing for recyclability is only half of the equation. You need to understand exactly what happens in these facilities. And some of that information can be used in order to, and that's where we are really looking forward to our in partnership and getting the data from the Deep Nest platform, is those testing out the what-if scenarios before the prototypes are made, understanding the true impact of our packaging design decisions based on both the recyclability of it and obviously the financial impact as well, given the potential EPR implications of that. So this is helping us move from recyclability assumptions into more evidence-based insights that can help us drive smarter design decisions.

SPEAKER_06 36:01

That's very exciting. We had a couple of tours before this event started at MERFS, and a couple of brands have come away and said, well, you could have said that, yes, that you didn't realize that some of these larger packages are also a problem. So not only are you, you know, learning that, but you're getting to really see that data up close. What is actually getting through the system?

SPEAKER_04 36:26

Absolutely. You need to have data. And with both these platforms, like through our sustainable innovation profiler, as you are developing new product and packaging, and also through platforms like Deep from GrayParrot, what happens to them after they leave your like facility after they leave the consumer's hand, data is powerful to help us understand how we can shape our strategy to make sure that we are able to drive measurable impact.

SPEAKER_06 36:58

That's very exciting. I can't wait to see the outcome of this and how it translates into future package designs.

SPEAKER_04 37:07

Really excited and looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_06 37:09

Well, thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Through the Line Packaging and Processing. You can listen to more episodes on all streaming platforms. Be sure to visit us at packworld.com, profoodworld.com, and healthcarepackaging.com for more packaging and processing news. This podcast was edited by Brady Guns.