Chores & Autism - It’s a Hard Knock Life for Al! (Best of '25)

In this episode, we’re talking chores—how we got Alec started, how we create chore chains with just the right level of support, and why these daily tasks are so much more than household responsibilities.

Chores have been a huge part of Alec’s journey toward independence. We share how we taught him to complete tasks step by step, how we adjusted support as his skills grew, and why we believe every child—regardless of ability—can take pride in contributing at home.

Chores also lay a solid foundation for real-world job skills. These early routines can turn into resume-worthy experience, and we’ve seen firsthand how powerful that can be.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to the Peace by Piece Autism Podcast with your hosts, Angie and Christy. They've worked 25 years to help Alec get the most out of life.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Let them tell you how they're doing it. It's a hard knock life for Al. Okay. It's not a hard knock life for Al. No, not a little bit. It's not a hard knock life for any child that does chores because guess what? Chores are great for children. They're great for people with autism. They're just great. There's so many benefits from them. And in fact, I recently heard about a 75-year study at Harvard University that talks about the advantages of chores for children. I love chores for kids. I know. There's so many benefits, including uh self-esteem. They learn life skills. They learn teamwork just from doing chores. I wish I had that feeling after doing chores. I'm not sure that that uh has the same effect on me. But um for children, it's so beneficial. And we have seen so much growth in Alec as he has done chores. So what we wanted to do is we wanted to dissect our chores situation with Alec and how it's evolved and all that in the form of a QA with Angie. I'm gonna ask the questions. Angie's gonna answer the question.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

I got you.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Okay. Let's go. So the first question would be can our kids really do chores?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

And of course, yes, they can. In all ages and in a lot of varieties. I've got four kids, and I find a lot of joy and increased happiness myself when they do their chores and do them well. So there, yes, there you have increased happiness.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

And that's good. Everybody's happy.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

But I do think that there is something for any child of all ages and abilities to do to feel as though they are contributing, members of the home, the household, the community, as this at-home chores evolve into jobs and other vocational opportunities as um these individuals grow up. So does your four-year-old do chores? My four-year-old has a plethora of chores, anything from ownership in her room and making her bed and um her very protected job of putting the liner in the trash can. And if anybody's a big one, if anybody touches those trash can liners and she hears those shaking, no, that's my chore. That's my job. Yeah, she likes she likes the ownership over that and knows that you know, hey, the trash just got taken out. Molly, get over here, get the get the liners in. So I think the more you can encourage, give the opportunities and fuel their their feeling of importance and need the better. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Yeah, I agree. Um how do we pick chores that our children can realistically perform? Because like with Alec, I remember when chores were first introduced into his programming, I was like, Oh, what's he gonna be able to do? Yeah, I I think I really I'm sad about now that I didn't realize what potential he had.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah, I think it's easy to underestimate the ability of somebody when it it seems daunting. So for Alec, I think first and foremost, we started with the thought of, you know, what skills does he have? What is a need that he can fill? And his very first job was putting water bottles into a fridge. He could pick up and load water bottles into a fridge, and he took great ownership in that. We also, as he's evolved and grown, um, the first step in picking a chore for him is to just pick one. We've had some flops, and that's okay. And we've had some chores that have been difficult, but we've picked a chore. We do what we call a chore chain and create a very extensive list of every little step. I remember in fourth grade having to write a how-to paper on making a peanut butter sandwich, and then the teacher read and did the instructions for making the peanut butter sandwich.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

And the result was hysterical because so many kids didn't mention getting a knife out or mention now. You take the knife and you dip it into the peanut butter and scoop some peanut butter out. And so it was just silly as she read these, talking about all of the little details. And I think of that often when I think of creating a chore chain because we don't want a step missed. We have to list walk to a particular place in the house to start the chore. Open the drawer, pull out a cloth, close the drawer. Each of these itty bitty minute steps are mentioned in the chore chain, and that's kind of our first step. And then we pay attention to things like what cabinets are he is he going to access, and is there anything hazardous there? Or what sprays are we going to use on the window? Is there one that we don't want him inhaling ammonia? Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

A bunch of fumes and stuff. That's not cool.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

So we we are aware of those things, but I think to put it in a bubble, you just start, build off of any skills that they do have, and create a very detailed chore chain that they can then follow step by step.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Right. And then some of his chores have led into these competencies that he has then taken into his workplace.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Yes, for sure. So one of the chores that we did with him early on was wiping windows, cleaning windows. Spray, wipe, spray, wipe. And that was on a vertical surface because it was wax on. Wax on.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

That's what it makes me think. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Um for sure. So that was vertical surface, and then we kind of transferred that into the table or a counter. And from there he worked at a restaurant. And let me tell you, his corner of the restaurant that we were responsible for was the cleanest of the restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

I you're right. And I remember that one time we had to go work in a different area because I can't remember why we we had to be moved to a different area. I think somebody got there and cleaned our area, dang it. And we were very disappointed. And we got there, and I found an entire quesadilla down in the bench of the area that we had never cleaned before. And I thought if that had been our area, there would be that would have never happened on our watch. There would not be quesadilla down in between the benches. There's no way.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

No. So practicing those chores at home really can evolve into building those skills outside of the house. And and that was his first job, and it was very fit for him, but we had a really good foundation of both vertical and surface wiping at that point.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

It also gives you something to put on your resume.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Tell us a little bit about the variety of Alec's chores. Like how many does he does he have currently?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

So Alec currently has about 12 different chores.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

Yeah. We've got a good variety. Like I mentioned, the table wiping and the window wiping. We're still doing those. And we've generalized them into new areas of the house. So he's not only wiping his kitchen table, but he also wipes counters and windows. He'll wipe a certain set of four windows in his kitchen. That's probably the most practiced. But if needed, he can wipe the glass in his bathroom. He can wipe his front door, has a beautiful glass window on it. And he also cleans his shower. He cleans his toilet. We vacuum. He loads and switches laundry. And he swifers the floor. That one also he does all over the house. And then he uses a stainless cleaner for his fridge and dishwasher.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

So he has a really cute skip after he uses the Swiffer.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Oh, the Swiff, yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

I think he loves the Swiffer. And so whenever he comes to put it away, he goes and just hops right along trying to put it away on the hook. So okay, so the so how many does he do in each of the sessions? Because like a session with a team member is about anywhere from three to six hours long.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Yeah. This in the summer it's longer.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

In the summer, we do longer sessions so they can go do fun stuff.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

On average, I always tell my team one chore approximately every 90 minutes. And most of his chores take two to three minutes to complete. They are not long at this point. And granted, he's been at this for years, and we've really honed in. He's grown greatly in independence in all of his chores, and our routine of them is very well established. So starting out, they definitely took a lot longer. But they they're not they don't take long. So one about every 90 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Okay. And and like how many does he have mastered? And what is our mastery criteria for that?

SPEAKER_00 10:29

So my mastery criteria is for him to be approximately 90% independent in any given chore. Wow. And currently I would say about half of them I would call mastered. However, I will say also that these still need ongoing monitoring. We have had it where, sure, he's independent in this spot, but we get a little bit laxed in not watching to make sure that he's doing it 100%. And then that that little piece of the puzzle starts to slip, which then affects the rest of the chain. We call it a chore chain because one step builds off of the next and kind of gives that indication for okay, once I close this door, then I grab this box. Once I grab this box, I've got my materials to head to the area to do my swimfering. So for example, his fridge wiping is 100% independent, except for where we give a verbal prompt to spray the fridge, and it is to be a count to two. One, two, as we like spraying things. He really does like spraying things. So this is where the pitfall in this chore is. I came to watch one time, as I do, when I come into town, I kind of take a quick glance at all of his jobs as I can across different team members. And this one's independent. So here he goes. He opens the cupboard, he gets his materials, closes the cupboard, goes to the fridge, and he sprays. Not one, not two, not three, not four. I count it to 12. I count it to 12. And here I'm just sitting back watching. This is what we call a probe. We just let him do his thing without any intervention. Watching, waiting to see if the team member is going to intervene because I'm not just watching Alec, I'm also seeing how the team is acting or intervening with things. And we get to 12, and then he puts the spray down on the counter. And it took him forever to wipe the fridge clean. But he does enjoy spraying. So at that point, I thought, okay, here's our blip. We're gonna go back to adding in this verbal prompt and we'll get him back on track and we'll revisit it next time I'm here. That's no problem.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

12 sprays. Okay. Well, one thing I wanted to mention, I we are so picky about that he do things authentically as much as possible. Yes. But we have had a couple of tricks. Like we to get him really good at the restaurant and to have the best section at the L Phoenix restaurant was to use the laser pointer to really get him cleaning the corners because he kind of would round off the corners. And the tables weren't round, so that was a problem.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

He'd round off the corners and sometimes wipe until he he was trying to put a hole through the center of the table. That part's good, man. That part's good, but you need to get over here. Yeah. So that was a proactive measure. One of our levels of support that we use in the chore to help move them along as we are teaching.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Okay. I just always thought that was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah, it's a great tool.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

He responds so well to a laser pointer.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

We've used that for table wiping, we've used it for swifering. Um, initially, we were kind of helping his arm and his body get into the motion of that push and pull. Yes. That motion is also used for vacuuming. So again, as you're thinking of how do I pick a chore for my child, you can build on your repertoire as they gain some of these skills. As you look at, okay, we've we're getting somewhere with Swiffering. Maybe it's time to introduce vacuuming alongside of that. So we've used we've used the laser pointer for both of those, where we've been able to not have so much of a physical prompt, but step back a little bit and use the laser and let him really engage and watch for that.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Yeah. The other thing, I ran across an old video of you when he very first started at all Phoenix restaurant where he's cleaning the tables, and you use the clicker to indicate that he has the corner clean. Yep, you got the corner clean, click. And because we paired the clicker with reinforcement, probably inedible at some point. Yes. He knows that the clicker means, oh, okay, I I did that right, I'm moving on. And it keeps the chore really moving at a nice clip and gives it a lot of continuity.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

Yes, yes. We've got to have some momentum again. Like that's a that's a piece of that chore chain. You can't stall, or that step is then forgotten. Where was I? Where am I going? That just kind of muddles the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yeah, I just thought that was like just really nice to see that continuity.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

So then he could really get the flow of it. So um, about how many reps a week are ideal to master something?

SPEAKER_00 15:51

A chore. I think it needs to be consistent more than a high number of reps, right? We want consistency, whether that is, we don't have very many chores, so we're going to do all of them every day or every other day, or even every third day. But just making sure that we are being consistent and not totally letting that sit to the side for a week and then expecting them to pick up where you left off. Because again, as we look at our levels of support, um, whatever those are for your child to be successful, they're going to transfer from chore to chore. So a lot of the chores start to feel a little bit the same in how you respond to them and how you as the teacher are supporting the learner. So frequency is definitely important, and consistency is even more important.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Okay. And now, do you have just like one person on the team do the windows, and another person on the team does the counter wiping, and another person on the team does the toilet cleaning? How do you divide that up among the team members to do the chores?

SPEAKER_00 17:21

That's a good question because we have broken out some of our chores and gave them to one person to really just hone in and work on before.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

But generally, we do not. We want all team members across the board working with Alec. It keeps him a little bit more flexible. It generalizes and helps him take a little bit more ownership. We want all of our team members to be as consistent as what they can in how they are supporting him. And this kind of leads into hopefully I'm not getting too ahead of things, but this leads into how we track our data because we've got an iPad that our our team carries with them when they are doing the chore, and it very nice and neatly has every step of each chore listed there. And then they the goal is that their time with Alec doing this chore will match what I call our chore prescription. This is the what I'm prescribing we do. This is what level of supports I think Alec will need to be successful. And our levels of support are everything from our goal, which is independent, down to a partial physical, where we're having to, like I mentioned with the Swiffer, support his elbow and kind of give that little bit of a push and a pull motion so that he can get into the rhythm there. But we also have gestural where we're pointing. We have verbal where we're counting aloud or giving verbal instructions. We have facilitate, that one we've had to use, which is us doing a part of the chore for him. For a time in his Swiffer chore, he really enjoyed getting the wet Swiffer out and just shaking the snot out of it. And so all the cleaning stuff would just be right in the face of whoever was helping. So we just eliminated that and said, You're finding too much enjoyment there, and it's really messing up with your chore chain. So we're gonna take ownership and we're just gonna lay this out for you, and then you can get take back over. So that's an example, an example of facilitate.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Did that thing go back to where he does it now? Or did that not develop into that?

SPEAKER_00 19:48

No, it definitely developed, and it's fully independent at this point in that chore, actually. Yeah. So he takes it out, places it on the floor. Unfolds the wipe, places the lid back on the box, puts a stick on. I all of that is independent. So these are very they ebb and flow back and forth. There's there's sometimes like the spray on the fridge where we've had to go, whoa, buddy, 12 sprays is too many.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

No, that's not okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

We're gonna go for two. We're gonna put that verbal support back in and we'll revisit that. And then there's times where, like the Swiffer, we've had to say, uh, no, thank you. I'm gonna take care of this part because that is a distraction for you. And we revisited it several weeks later and he was able to handle it.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Well, I think there has been a few things that he's oh, maybe I shouldn't say that. Maybe that sounds a little negative, but I I just want to say how proud I am of Alec that he can do so many chores. Absolutely. It's super gratifying for me as his parent to know that he's he feels purpose in doing chores and he's happy about them.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

And I love, I love, love, love. I already mentioned that little skip he gives. And I remember the one time I was watching his counter wiping, and he was wiping the island in the kitchen, and he just kept going around and kept going around and he wouldn't stop. Yeah. And I remember leaning over to you because I was videoing it and I said, Is he ever gonna stop? But he just was enjoying it, I think. I don't know why he went around three times, but it was it was so cute to see him have it. I shouldn't say cute, but like, you know, it was it was endearing to see him. It's endearing to see him enjoying doing something that he's mastered and like feeling the confidence of that. So, with that, I want to encourage all of you to start somewhere, just pick a place to start with your child. I don't think it matters their age. No, I think Alec could have done some chores. I know we did some cooperative things, chores with him when he was little. But just being able to know and be confident about this that other children are out there doing chores, our children can do it too.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

Yes, and it's not a punishment, it's it's giving them so much confidence in their abilities to contribute. So it's it's excellent.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah, it's not a hard knock life.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

It's a good thing. It's a good thing. Well, that's a wrap for today's episode of Piece by Piece. If you're loving these conversations as much as we are, hit that follow button, share the show, and help us spread the word because every piece of the story matters. If you've got a story, question, or idea, slide into our DMs to shoot us a message. You can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Peace by Piece Autism Podcast. That's P I E C E, Peace by Piece Autism Podcast. Bye. Bye.