How an AI Attorney Uses AI to Empower Ethical Tech and Protect Innovation

Welcome back to How I AI — the podcast that features real people and use cases of artificial intelligence in action.

In this episode, I sit down with Nicolle Lafosse, Tech & AI Attorney. Nicolle is a go-to expert for understanding legal gray areas in emerging tech—and her passion for accessible education has made her a thought leader in the LatAm tech space.  

With a TEDx talk under her belt and an upcoming AI software for law firms in the works, Nicolle brings a wealth of insight on AI policy, data privacy, intellectual property, and why most people don’t realize how close they are to a lawsuit.

🔍 Whether you're a solo founder, a scaling startup, or just getting into AI tools — this episode is a must-listen for navigating risk and regulation while staying creative.

In this episode:

• What exactly is an “AI attorney” — and why we need them
• The biggest legal mistake users make with AI tools
• Scraping, licensing, and the lawsuits you didn’t hear about
• Copyright updates for AI-generated content (and why 2025 changed everything)
• How she’s building a litigation prediction AI tool in-house
• AI literacy as a global necessity

Mentioned tools:

• ChatGPT – Language generation and research assistant
• Claude – Preferred for legal and long-form processing
• Buffer – Social media scheduling
• AI undetecting and humanization tools (unnamed but referenced)

Connect with Nicolle Lafosse:

• LinkedIn: Nicolle Lafosse
• Instagram: lafosselaw
• Lafosse Law | Legal and Pixels
• TEDx Talk: “AI Mindset in the Legal Practice” – Nicolle Lafosse 

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How I AI is now The AI Movement with Brooke.

LinkedIn: Brooke Gramer

Website: TheAIMovementPodcast.com

Disclaimer: This podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only, not legal, financial, medical, business, technical, or other professional advice. Guest views are their own. Information may change, and accuracy, safety, or results are not guaranteed. Verify information and consult a qualified professional before acting. To the fullest extent permitted by law, The AI Movement, Brooke Gramer, and EmpowerFlow Strategies LLC disclaim liability arising from reliance on this content.

Transcript

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Brooke 0:01

Welcome to How I AI the podcast featuring real people, real stories, and real AI in action. I'm Brooke Gramer your host and guide on this journey into the real world impact of artificial intelligence. For over 15 years, I've worked in creative marketing events and business strategy wearing all the hats. I know the struggle of trying to scale and manage all things without burning out, but here's the game changer, ai. This isn't just a podcast, How I AI is a community. A space where curious minds like you can come together, share ideas, and I'll also be bringing you exclusive discounts, free trials and insider resources so you can test drive the latest tools and tech yourself. Because AI isn't just a trend, it's a shift. The sooner we embrace it, the more freedom, creativity, and opportunities we'll unlock.

0:56

How I AI is brought to you in partnership with the collective, A space designed to accelerate your learning and AI adoption. I joined the collective and it's completely catapulted my learning, expanded my network, and show me what's possible with ai. Whether you're just starting out or looking to refine your AI strategy, the collective gives you the resources to grow. Stay tuned to learn more at the end of this episode, or check the show notes for my exclusive invite link..

Brooke 1:21

Hello everyone and thank you for joining another episode of How I ai. I'm your host, Brooke Gramer marketing executive and AI enhancement consultant. I'm very excited for today's guest. We have Nicolle Lafosse. She is an AI attorney and we're gonna be digging into some really deep stuff today and also just learning about her journey and her path to ai. Let's take it away. Miss Nicolle. Thank you so much for being here.

Nicolle 1:50

Thank you for having me, Brooke. I love being in this podcast because AI is such a beast that we don't know how to use it. We know it's good, but how to use it is where the money's at. And I'm excited to share some of my views on ai.

Brooke 2:05

So what is an AI attorney? Please tell us all about what you do.

Nicolle 2:10

An AI attorney allows you to be creative without messing up. In other words, there's a bunch of regulatory matters that. People don't know when it comes to using ai, especially when it comes to licensing or scraping data or automating systems, and you don't know where the data is being picked up from. That's super delicate when it comes to legal matters, because you could be stealing someone else's data, right? And you are not aware that you're actually stealing data. You think scraping and scraping is okay until you get sued. So that's pretty much a tip of the iceberg. There's a lot more to it, but I think the one thing that everybody's doing with AI is scraping data.

Brooke 2:51

Scraping data. When you say that, I immediately think about bot scraping for emails and phone numbers and personal information. Is that one of those things where you have to know it's being done and people actually have to take action for it to be a problem?

Nicolle 3:07

Yes. So people definitely need to take action. And some people may or may not be familiar with European Union. When you take data, personal data from European Union members, it's a different set of rules and regulations that you need to follow. For EU members. You have to actually ask them before you acquire their data. Personal data. But for the US it's a little bit more lenient. You just check a box and say, yes, take my data, and then you're good to go. But with EU it's a lot more strict and you can get in a lot of trouble if you take personal data from EU members. So sometimes people do a mix of both without knowing. That you cannot take EU members' personal data, and that's like the easiest way to get sued.

Brooke 3:55

Yes. There was a point in time where I worked in software for email deliverability and I knew a bit about GDPR and all of those regulations. But before we get into the nitty gritty, when did you start using AI personally?

Nicolle 4:10

I have my own legal practice and I wear many hats. I have a virtual assistant, but I felt overwhelmed about all those little tasks that I had to do that I couldn't delegate because there were too personal or I just didn't trust enough to delegate, and I said to myself, okay,, somehow I need to automate this. And then the talk of the town, ai this, AI that. But I didn't trust the softwares to do what I wanted to do. So what I did was, okay, let me start small, start automating calendar, start automating travel, start automating research for conferences that I may be interested on attending. And I saw that it worked and I liked it, and I'm like this works. This is safe enough. Then I started getting more into it and I said to myself, what if law firms are able to use ai? But the big question mark is confidentiality. You deal with so many documents that are extremely confidential. Personal information, client information. I'm like, how do you use AI without breaching confidentiality? Making sure that the data is not reused for something else, especially to train the AI system. So I came with this idea of building my own AI software alongside with a business partner. And we're currently building a wow AI software for law firms that predicts the outcome of litigation, and it also automates internal systems without having the data being used to train the AI of other softwares. So meaning keeping it all in-house.

Brooke 5:48

So were you in charge of creating the AI policy for your law firm?

Nicolle 5:53

Yes. It comes from a place of not trusting what's out there. And I said, if I want to implement ai, I need to make sure that I know where the data is being taken from, how the data is being treated, where is it stored? How is it processed? And then the results, right? A lot of people see the results and they say, okay, cool. It's automated, it's there, it works, but where is that data coming from? What is it being used? for, besides the actual use case, that is your personal case. So the answer is yes. I build my own internal policies for ai and the best way for me to learn about AI systems and processes is doing it myself.

Brooke 6:34

So for someone starting off and say they have their own small business or even just mid-size business, what would you say are the top. Advice and key points for an AI policy. What should it cover?

Nicolle 6:51

It should cover personal data. Personal data is a huge deal. People don't realize how big it is. Personal data is one of the most delicate things you could ever. Have when it comes to data accessing, storing personal data, transferring personal data, using that data to train your own system, you can get in big trouble. So for a small business, you need to know that whatever AI software you're using, make sure you know what the data is being used on the backend. That's the main question, because everybody's gonna sell. To you automation. Automation is a key. Efficiency, time saving you money, but okay, good. How is the data used? What do you do with my data? Aside from processing and automating my own system? And then how is it stored? Because if you get hacked, what happens with confidentiality? You have phone numbers, you have addresses, you have birth dates. God forbid you have social security numbers on that data. So it depends on the business that you're in. The more detailed data that you have, the more scrutiny you have to have when it comes to using softwares that are third party softwares that are not your own, that you didn't build yourself.

Brooke 8:04

Yes. I've heard a lot of businesses and larger corporations are just creating their own tools and own systems. It's just more efficient and more private. So that's really fascinating that you're going that way as well. I can't wait to hear. All about your software? Yes. I would love to hear what is your technology stack? What are the software tool, solutions and apps that you use?

Nicolle 8:29

I use several I use ChatGPT I use Claude I use Buffer for Social Media Automation. it doesn't create the post, but it automates the calendar of the post. I like it because it's very simple, very easy, very friendly. It's also very cheap, no one should be paying massive amounts of money to automate systems. And that's the thing. Everybody's selling it. Yes. So you have the ability to pick and choose what you want. And something that is affordable. You don't have to go through the most expensive ai, you have to do something that fills your needs and I cannot stress this enough that you know that your data is not being used to train their own data,

Brooke 9:10

yes. So many tools and apps right now are, join our free trial. Have so many free credits, and there's no such thing as a. Free lunch. That's one of the only things I remember from my macroeconomics class in college. Yes, you are the free lunch, your data. Yes. Your private information is being used. So that's really important to say. Next question about your technology stack. How much do you estimate you pay a month for all of those tools and solutions?

Nicolle 9:43

Before I started doing my own software I think I was paying about $400 a month or so. I. Between different apps, because the other thing is I haven't found an app, an AI software app that does it all. I always have to polish it with some other app. Like say if I use chat GPT, I need to use another software to make it sound more human. And then I have to use another software to make sure that it doesn't pick up on the ai. Because some of the things that you do. You can decrypt the AI from it in case there's an AI detector from the other end wherever you're publishing it. They don't want things to be ai. So you use softwares that make it sound more human and that also allow you to make AI undetectable. Now, when you do this, I do not recommend it to do it for your professional needs. Do it for a post, like a social media post. That should be fine, right? Yeah, but I would never do that with something that is work related because then there's a lot of trouble with what you're feeding. The AI was if you want the good product for the ai, you need to give it a lot of information, very detailed information, and. Information is money. At the end of the day, you're giving your soul to the software and you don't even run the software.

Brooke 11:07

That's what I have been thinking so much about with everybody creating assistants and agents and custom GPTs and their making APIs and just packaging them and selling them on their website, but. What happens if something goes wrong in someone's business? And they used your tool and it advised them on something devastating that happened? Yes. What are the legalities and implications around that?

Nicolle 11:33

But that's the thing that you can't do anything about it because you agreed to give the data unless the data was stolen from you. You pretty much agreed for them to do whatever they want with your data. Yeah. In a checkbox of you agree for us to process data, we'll not cut it like you can go, you can litigate it and you can try and fight it, but the point is not to go and fight it. The point is that you don't have to go through it. You don't have to actually. go to court or settle anything because that data is yours and yours only. But it comes with a caveat. Right. Do you want things to be efficient? You need to give the data. Just like you said, no free lunch.

Brooke 12:17

I would love to hear what have been some of the biggest benefits you've seen since using ai. You can touch on time saved, but anything very specific to your industry. I'm sure you've been able to go through way more cases. Have you taken on more clients as a result?

Nicolle 12:34

I haven't seen the fact that I've been taking more clients, but I have felt myself more at peace. When it comes to small, tiny tasks that take up a lot of time. Yes. And it gives me a lot of peace of mind to think today, when I was coming here, I was thinking about three events that I'm putting together. I'm like, did I do this? Did I do that? So AI is keeping me on track. With things that have been done pending task or things that are yet to do so that the project. All together flows very smoothly and nothing falls through the cracks. Those things are very generic information that you're providing. Like put together an event but don't tell them what the event is about, but you have to tell it what it's about so that you got a better product from the ai. Right. That's the tricky part of it. So it has allowed me to be more efficient with, translates into having more time. And more time translates into money. So now I have more free time to actually be able to network in the spaces that I've been trying to do but I didn't have time to. So I haven't seen an immediate translation into clients. But a lot of the clients that I've been having through this couple years have been clients that I've met four years back. Wow. So if you make an impact with the people that you meet today, they will come to you. It doesn't matter how much time has passed and it's happened to me so many times. People I meet they don't necessarily become immediate clients. And if I don't have the time to put in. Then no one's gonna know who I am. And that's what AI gives me. It gives me time, and time is priceless.

Brooke 14:12

So you're handling all of your own, self-promotion and outreach and sales. Yes. And it's hard.

Nicolle 14:19

It's so hard. But AI is there to help. Yes. It gives me the creative input, it gives me the automation for post. It allows me to to follow up with leads. That I don't have to follow up myself. And then once I see that okay, it's a good lead, then I'll follow up myself and put my own personal touch. But AI has redrafted something for me so that I don't have to do it from scratch. And it allows me to be more efficient in what I'm typing, because now I have a little focus, I have a little flashlight that says, Hey, this is the route that you should be taking on based on previous conversations. Based on the profile of the person that you're talking to. Because that's a good thing about ai. It analyzes the profile of the person that you're talking to, well, depends on what you're doing, but it will tell you the highlights of that person and that's how you would drive the conversation too.

Brooke 15:11

Okay. You've said it automates reaching out to clients already for you with soft leads. Yes. What specific. Software or tool or solution do you use for that?

Nicolle 15:22

So for that, I don't remember the name of the app, but I know it's connected with LinkedIn. And LinkedIn had a lawsuit. Ooh. They were suing someone else who was scraping data from LinkedIn and their argument was LinkedIn is free. I'm allowed to scrape data because it's information that is accessible to everyone. Yes. Made sense until they got sued. Ooh, yes. So LinkedIn said, although this is information that is accessible, you need to create a profile. And they did create a profile, in fact, but the profile was created for the sole purpose of scraping other people's data. It was an HR company who was. Creating leads from scraping data from LinkedIn without having permission from LinkedIn. So that was a big lawsuit and LinkedIn won because they said this data, although publicly accessible, is private and we are not authorizing our data to be used to train your ai. And that's the wrinkle that everybody misses. Having permission to use the data to train your ai, like if you're building your own software, licensing is key. Either you license, either you acquire a permit, you give them royalties, whatever it is. If you know there is a database that has that information that you need so badly to train your ai, reach out to them, ask them for a license. If they say no, then tough luck. You can't use it unless you wanna risk a lawsuit. You know, you could play it out without asking permission. Like, you know, ask for forgiveness and not for permission, right? That can cost you your company. So it's up to you whether you wanna play it like that, or you wanna play by the rules. And I think your podcast does exactly that. It allows people to. go through information that maybe they don't have access to. Like in my case, you would have to book an appointment with me and then find out, where you're standing with ai. But yeah, you allow this information to be publicly accessible so that people don't commit those mistakes, and I think that's fascinating from your podcast.

Brooke 17:20

Yeah, that is my goal is to really empower and inspire the everyday. User, entrepreneur, parent, anybody can benefit from ai. Yes. And the barriers to entry have never been lower, and yet there is a bit of anxiety around entering the space, feeling like you need some sort of degree or yeah. Product marketing background, but it's not true. Anybody can start to use it. And now there's a lot of no code solutions. But yes, to be careful with what you're signing up for, what your data is, and to pay attention to what Nicolle's sharing about.

Nicolle 18:01

Just a example that I like to give people, which I'm very related to is I've had a couple clients come to me and say, boldly, why do I need you? I can have ChatGPT draft my contracts, and I'm like, by all means ChatGPT. I was like, is there, you said, now think about it. how would you feel going to the courtroom? With a ChatGPT contract, will you feel confident like that contract is bulletproof, is made by ChatGPT, you know everything is kosher or would you be sweating cold because ChatGPT did that contract and you're now rolling the dice in the courtroom. Don't even know if the contract is a good solid contract, right? That is the equivalent of me going to ChatGPT and tell it to draft code for me. It will draft code. I don't know what's missing in that code. I don't know what's right, what's wrong If I run the code, it works, but I don't know what to look for in that code. I'm not a coder. I understand code enough, but I don't code. Same thing with drafting contracts. If it's something very simple, by all means use ChatGPT. But if it's something very, complex that it involves a lot of commas when it comes to money. You don't wanna roll the dice with ChatGPT and not because ChatGPT is a bad tool, but because you don't know what's missing from it.

Brooke 19:24

Right. I heard that the training data used for Claude, was on legal documents and that is a better one if you going to risk it.

Nicolle 19:33

Oh very. You're gonna roll the dice, you're gonna roll the dice, so what I have found with Claude is that it's better when you feed it bigger text. If you have, a, purchase and sale contract, and the contract is 10 pages long, I can feed it to Claude and tell Claude to do X, Y, or Z with that contract. But if I feed it to ChatGPT, it would get stuck and it doesn't even gimme average results. Claude is designed for bigger data. So if you wanna a newsletter drafted, Claude is better because it's bigger text and it gives you more accurate results than ChatGPT kind of goes all over the place. You need to feed it very small parts of it. And then you puzzle piece it together. But Claude is better when it comes to bigger text.

Brooke 20:20

Love dining out. Here's a little gift for you. I've been using InKind and it's honestly a game changer for food lovers. It's like a universal dining wallet that earns you 20% cash back at amazing restaurants, cafes, and bars nationwide. And as I thank you for being a listener, you can grab $25 off your next $50 tab when you sign up with my link in the show notes. Just pay with InKind, earn rewards and use them on your next outing. A quick heads up. This offer is for new InKind users only. Valid one use per guest and covers food, drinks and tax, but no tips or fees. The credit expires 30 days after you claim it, so don't let it go to waste. Check the show notes for my affiliate link and enjoy your next meal on me. Well kind Of. Alright, have there been any challenges or unexpected consequences with your AI adoption? Have you run into any mishaps already?

Nicolle 21:16

Not legal mishaps. I think my first wow moment of AI was to know that whatever I was feeding, it was being used to train the ai, I'm like, holy crap. Okay. I need to be more careful about what I'm giving it because I was being very detailed. About what I prompt and it gave me really good results. And then I'm like, okay, this is not good. And at that point I had not fed it anything that was personal data or confidential. Honestly, I never put anything that's confidential online ever. Not before ai, not now, not ever. If it's online it's never gonna go away.

Brooke 21:57

Including social media.

Nicolle 21:59

Especially social media. And funny enough, people say, why do people have to metal on my personal life? I'm like, have you seen your Instagram? Have you seen your Facebook? It's all over the place. Funny, then they say, but it's there because it's my profile. I'm like, yes, and it's online. And it's accessible to everyone to say and do whatever they want. To either Photoshop, to use it, to train data for their ai or whatever the hell they want. If it's online period.

Brooke 22:30

Yeah.

Nicolle 22:30

Same with ai. And think people need to understand that AI is not a blanket rule of efficiency. It is efficient, but to what extent what's the price?

Brooke 22:42

Very key points there. You spoke about a LinkedIn lawsuit, do you have any other ones that. Are recent that you wanna share that are just topic of interest

Nicolle 22:54

Some people may or may not know there's a platform called Westlaw, which is one of the most known. Platforms for legal precedents. Okay, so law firms use it to draft their complaints, their motions, because it gives you all the historical data of cases that preceded your case, where you take the facts, the rules of law applicable law, everything. It's in Westlaw. If Westlaw doesn't have it, it's very likely that someone else has it. Okay? So it's very complete because it's been there for so many years and someone started scraping data from Westlaw and Westlaw sue them also. They made some sort of plugin with Westlaw because they were creating their own software, AI software for law firms. And of course Westlaw found out and they got sued and Westlaw won the lawsuit because they need a license, they need a permit. So it's very similar to LinkedIn, but with Westlaw it was a little bit more clear cut in the sense of. The only way to access it is through the membership fee. It tracks everything that you open and close. Every case that you click in it's stored in the data for Westlaw. So it creates a profile per every attorney that is using it within the law firm. It's very easy to see what cases that attorney access, how they used it. If they downloaded it so scraping data is not a choice. It's not an option versus LinkedIn where it's accessible, people may have the idea that because it's free then I can scrape data, which is what ChatGPT did. Yes, ChatGPT scraped the whole entire. Worldwide web, and that's how they got ChatGPT. But they were the first ones to do it. And it's really hard to track a massive amount of, you know, reconciliation of data that's been scraped throughout the entire web. And part of that scraping is why it has hallucinations. Right, because it picks up data from everywhere and sometimes it just doesn't make sense. Versus some softwares that are more enclosed that the data is trained only on the data that you feed it. Those are the ones that you pay a membership for. It's a lot more accurate because the data that is being fed is your data and your data only.

Brooke 25:15

So for you, where do you see the future of AI law going? You can start with sharing the consistencies you see coming through right now at this time of the recording. It's February, 2025. Um, I'd love to hear the consistent questions or circumstances or cases that are coming through as it relates to AI to you now. And where do you see it going in the future? Do you think there's going to need to be way more regulation? Do you think that the government is gonna continue to just step back and not limit the growth? I'm curious on your thoughts.

Nicolle 25:53

Switching up from data AI is also being used to record voice and to use that voice for other purposes. Say you take Morgan Freeman's voice to make an ad, and it's you who's talking, but it's Morgan Freeman's voice. There's a lot of lawsuits going on for trademark infringement because you're using someone else's voice without the permission. And it's similar to when you license a song for a movie. You need to have a license to use that song on that movie, and you need to pay for that license. But with AI, companies and softwares are just scraping voices. From the worldwide web, right? And then if you use the app, you can pick your voice, make your ad, make your little Snapchat, whatever you wanna do. And there's been a couple of lawsuits around using someone else's voice for a voiceover without paying a license. Now say it's an app called whatever Chicken. I just didn't wanna name any particular app, but let's call it Chicken App called Chicken. It's designed to take on voices of people who are famous and their uses are allowed to create voiceovers. That App Chicken needs to pay the license for every single voice that it has within their app. But that payment does not translate into having the users pay a license too. If the app has a license and then you're just a user, you should be fine because the person or the company that has to have permission to use the voice, the app itself. So some apps have been sued because they didn't have license. It doesn't matter. How long the voiceover is if you have it for, 10 seconds, five seconds, it doesn't matter. It you need a license for that,

Brooke 27:40

Yeah. There was a period of time I worked in music publishing, film and TV sync and so I'm pretty familiar with all of the licensing Yes. And things of that nature, so very fascinating to touch on that a little bit. One of my favorite questions to ask everybody. If you could wave a magic wand and create an AI tool that's not out there yet, what would you want to create for yourself?

Nicolle 28:05

For myself.

Brooke 28:06

We can do personal and professional.

Nicolle 28:09

How about global? So my magic wand would be for everybody to gain. Technology literacy. Not just in ai, but in general because AI is a monster. It mutates every day. We go to sleep next day is not the same thing. It's mutating technology mutates overnight, and it's really hard to keep track of it. I have to be on top of it because it's my job. I'm an AI attorney. I'm a technology attorney, so my magic wand on a global scale would be for everybody to have technology literacy on whatever tools they're using. Maybe ai, maybe blockchain whatever they're doing with technology. Technology is just moving so fast. Like, never seen before, not just ai, but in general. So global literacy would be one of them. You know, everything translates into literacy at the end of the day, right? Yes. 'cause if you understand the extent of what you can do and you cannot do. With ai, you will understand what your limits are. And what the limits of that technology are, and how far can you push it to the point where you're not putting yourself in a position that you could be at risk either purposely or unpurpose. You won't even know. That you, what you're doing is something that you should not be doing. And that's because there's a lack of literacy

Brooke 29:41

My business law class was one of my favorite classes in college. Okay. What I'm remembering. The inherent bee case where a bus driver was driving Uhhuh, but the bee came in and it wasn't his fault and he crashed. And yes, there must have been injured children or something very sensitive of that nature, but it wasn't his fault, in that circumstance. And so do you feel like maybe there's some use cases around. Illiteracy if you're not educated on ai. Yes. How can you really know when you're doing something wrong? If you don't know what you're doing is wrong?

Nicolle 30:16

I love that question. I love it. I love it because this is exactly what I do. I tell people how this is so funny. I tell people how they are wrong when they don't know they're wrong, and how there is a risk that they haven't seen. And when I go through all the red flags of whatever is the business that they're doing. They get scared. They're like, what? And I'm like, yes, it hasn't caught up to you yet. And we're still on time, but you need to take care of these now. And so the example of the bee reminds me of AI agents, so AI agents learn by themselves. You feed them data. They start getting trained, but then they start learning. Within themselves, they learn from what you're feeding it from experiences. They start creating their own analysis, and it becomes almost like a human taking decisions without you telling it to do or not to do something. Yes. So who's at fault when the AI agent does something that. Is not quite legal. Like say, taking money from someone whose money is product of money laundering. Like you're selling a product and you have an AI agent doing the transaction. That AI agent is authorized by you to receive money. And to then transfer the product and deliver it to the address provided. But what if that money that you're receiving is a product of money laundering. You haven't done a KYC. You may have some in place. Maybe the AI agent is doing that too. But at some point, the AI agent is making decisions without you realizing it's making those decisions. So who's at fault? Make a guess. It's not gonna be the ai, no one cares about the ai. It's not gonna get sued, right? It's the person who programmed the AI to take life off its own. And that's the scary part. And that's why I'm saying literacy is key. Because if you still don't know how to control the ai, just keep it to what you understand. Use it for calendaring. Use it for social media, but if you don't fully understand the extent of how you can use AI and how automation works, to the point where it makes decisions on its own, I would say steer away from that because that's a dangerous zone.

Brooke 32:38

Absolutely. I think we skipped over the future of what you feel like let's get in yet.

Nicolle 32:43

Alright the future of ai. I see it here's a question to your question. Okay. In 2015, did you ever thought the world would stop five years from then? Yeah, the entire world would stop in 2020. No one saw it coming. No one saw it coming. No one saw a pandemia coming. I think that's where I'm at right now with ai.

Brooke 33:09

You just can't really predict or go there. 'cause you can't.

Nicolle 33:11

There's so many moving pieces. Yeah. In so many. What if this, what if that? But if this, but if that, it's so hard to see where we will be five years even one year from now. Last year things were so different and we're just in February, things were so different last year. Yes. We've grown so much. We've gone so far, so fast that at it's hard to grow at the same pace as technology's growing. We're trying to play catch here every single day. And I think the future is just us understanding our limitations when it comes to technology. And the other thing is, one thing that a lot of people tell me, especially attorneys, they tell me, well, I don't like AI because it's going to reduce my billables. less billables less money. Okay. Understandable. But how about more efficiency? More money. Yes. If you're more efficient, you can have the client pay you a little bit more because now your product is coming out very fast versus other law firms who are not using AI and you're still being a really good attorney, but you're being more efficient about what you do because the little things. That you can delegate will be done faster. Not necessarily the analytical part of being an attorney. Not necessarily drafting, not necessarily your train of thought. That is something that only comes with experience and attorneys can never be replaced when it comes to experience. Or foreshadowing the outcome of a case or that instinct. You know, that professional instinct that we all have no matter who, what industry attorney or not attorney. You have an instinct that is nature. It's only a human thing to have. You cannot program instinct. They don't think they can predict. I don't think so. They can predict outcomes. Yeah, based on previous data. That's happened before, based on patterns that Ai sees, but it's a predictive analysis, which is what I'm building with my own software. It can predict, but it will not have instinct if it hasn't been fed the data. If it hasn't happened, the AI will not have an instinct of steering away from something that may or may not be illegal.

Brooke 35:28

It's the whole premise of legally blonde, her instinct.

Nicolle 35:32

Yes, and that's exactly why you pay an attorney and attorneys are afraid of being replaced, but they don't realize that. It's a tool that you need to pick up because either you use it or you're being left behind. It's not an option. Yeah. We need to use ai.

Brooke 35:47

I agree. You shared earlier this week about a law that had just changed in our group chat. I'm trying to recall of what it was. Yes. What laws have changed just in the last, you can even say. Two weeks.

Nicolle 36:01

Yeah. Of, because this is interesting. So it's one that I love it. And minority side here. I love talking about AI and love because it just it's fascinating to me. And two weeks from now I was advising people and clients that you cannot copyright ai. Art, anything that AI could produce, a novel, a script, a book painting made up using ai, you couldn't copyright it because under us patent and trademark law, copyright law, machines cannot own product. That's the underlying reasoning. Machines cannot own products. So if you have a piece of art that is ai created, or a book that has been AI composed, you could not copyright it. That changed this last week. And this is historical because there's been a lot of rejections from art, from books, poems that have been ai prompt and they rejected it because it didn't have enough human composure or elements. Okay. And. This new law is saying that as long as you have substantially more human input and creative input, it doesn't matter if it has ai. Now, the trick here is you need to be able to track everything that you prompt in the AI and then you need to pretty much make a diary of what things you did and you did not do. To the point where you can say, this percentage was AI and this percentage was my human creativity. Wow. And the most recent piece of arts that was registered on U-S-P-T-O was one that was. Mainly AI created. It was like a mosaic of little pieces of different colors, different patterns, and then put together to carry the face of a woman. And every single of those pieces were AI prompt, like every corner, every square, every triangle was AI prompt. So if you separate those pieces, it's completely AIed. But what the artist did is he readjusted those pieces into different places and angles, and depending on the color, the texture of what the, a prompt, he created the image of a woman, of the face of a woman.

Brooke 38:09

And

Nicolle 38:10

the reasoning behind having it approved by United States Patent and Trademark office was that the person had used. Its own creativity to adjust and to place the pieces together in a way that it created art. So it doesn't necessarily mean it's more human, it has more human percentage input as in creativity, because if you separate them, it's completely ai. So it's still not a blanket rule to say you need more human input than AI input. It's. Got it. A matter of try it and register. At this point, because this is very important because this is not part of why the new law is changing. Because a new law says you need more human input. But this piece of art that was recently registered is mainly AI produced, but it was the human creativity who put those pieces together to create the piece of art. And as a unit, you have rights over it. But if you separate those pieces, those individual elements, those are the elements that you cannot. Copyright. So that's

Brooke 39:14

really interesting. So that's a loophole almost in a way.

Nicolle 39:17

It almost is, but I think a base rule to stand on is you can AI the unit. As is. So for instance, you can ai a piece of art all together, but you couldn't ai the ears or the lips or the eyes of a specific, digital asset. For instance, an NFT. You can put the entire NFT and register it, but you couldn't take the eyes, you couldn't take the color patterns and stuff. And same with books. You can copy the entire book, but not a specific line.

Brooke 39:49

So does that negate what was going on with the writer strikes forever ago in Los Angeles, because that was the start of AI when WGA was on strike for so long and so many movies didn't come out or get green lit and pilots. It was very devastating for. Many people I know in la so is that related to what was

Nicolle 40:10

changed? It is. It is related in the sense of if it would've came out today, it would've not had all the issues that it had before. It just changed so much.

Brooke 40:21

Are there any other specific industry insights or unique perspectives you'd like to share

Nicolle 40:27

I think it's the three main things for me that I have personal experience with is music when it comes to voiceover. Music in general, songs used by other singers,, if I'm not mistaken, avicii back in the day, he used Steve aokis or someone else's song to make his intro concert. And he got sued because he didn't ask for permission. But he did use AI as a voiceover to open his concert and he got sued. Whoa. So I think. When it comes to licensing of music and media in general, there's a very delicate situation when using ai. And then the other one would be scraping data. Scraping data is huge because everybody's doing it and they don't know Yes. What they

Brooke 41:10

don't know. I've seen a lot of that. Like how to find leads I've seen that. Yes. So That's a. Big. No-No. Well, I can't thank you enough for today. I love that you just touched on literacy and hearing more about your products and what's near and dear to your heart. I enjoyed this conversation so much. I'm sure we could just talk and talk about AI law. Yes. Going into all the different facets, but I wanna give you an opportunity to share if. Listeners wanna connect with you, where should they go first?

Nicolle 41:43

Yeah, of course. So I'm very active on LinkedIn. You can look me up with my name, Nicolle Lafosse. You can find me on Instagram at Lafosse Law. And just YouTube me. There's a couple of videos that have been featured on podcast interviews. I'm always in conferences and it's always been highlighted on YouTube. I did a TEDx on December. Congrats. Thank you. That was definitely a milestone, so I'm very proud of that. It's it's been the work of many years to be able to get to TEDx,

Brooke 42:13

what was your TEDx talk on?

Nicolle 42:16

AI mindset. In the legal practice.

Brooke 42:18

Well, I can link all that out in the show notes then. Amazing. Yeah, absolutely.

Nicolle 42:23

Thank you for having me, Brooke. Thank you so much. I do so much. Appreciate it, and it's been a true honor. Wow, I hope today's episode opened your mind to what's possible with ai. Do you have a cool use case on how you're using AI and wanna share it? DM me. I'd love to hear more and feature you on my next podcast. Until next time, here's to working smarter, not harder. See you on the next episode of How I Ai.

Brooke 42:47

This episode was made possible in partnership with the Collective ai, a community designed to help entrepreneurs, creators, and professionals seamlessly integrate AI into their workflows. One of the biggest game changers in my own AI journey was joining this space. It's where I learned, connected and truly enhanced my understanding of what's possible with ai. And the best part, they offer multiple membership levels to meet you where you are. Whether you want to DIY, your AI learning or work with a personalized AI consultant for your business, the collective has you covered. Learn more and sign up using my exclusive link in the show notes.