They Fired and Jailed Her. This is What Happened Next with Linda Masarira

In this profound episode, Chisom sits with Zimbabwean political activist, human rights defender, and founder of the Labour Economists and African Democrats (LEAD) party, Linda T. Masarira. From her early days as a labour rights advocate and train driver to becoming one of Zimbabwe’s most fearless political voices, Linda reflects on her journey of resistance, leadership, and purpose. 

She recounts the systemic injustices she witnessed and endured - gender-based discrimination, labour exploitation, and political repression - which shaped her fierce commitment to equity and justice. Her activism, which led to multiple arrests and time in solitary confinement, became a turning point. In isolation, she found clarity. In hardship, she discovered a deeper sense of calling.

Throughout the conversation, Linda delves into:

The labour injustices that radicalized her early activism

Founding LEAD as a response to a binary and populist political system

Solitary confinement and how it reshaped her approach to leadership

The imperative of pan-African sovereignty and financial independence

Re-indigenizing African governance and reclaiming African spirituality

Feminism as intrinsic to African liberation

The emotional labour of being a woman in politics

Her vision for a united Africa, shaped by agency, dignity, and collective history. 

This episode is a bold, unflinching look at what it means to lead in the face of state-sanctioned resistance, and to carry a vision that may not fully bloom within one’s lifetime.
---------------
Chapters

00:00 Overnight Wisdom Intro
00:30 Introduction of Linda Masarira
01:26 Linda's Journey from Labour Activism to Politics
05:37 Founding LEAD: A New Political Movement
11:33 The Impact of Solitary Confinement on Activism
18:30 Redefining Leadership and Commitment to Change
23:22 Empowering African Women: A Legacy of Resistance
24:36 The Journey Towards African Sovereignty
26:54 Financial Liberation: Breaking Free from Dependency*
33:08 Religion as a Tool for Division and Unity
38:22 Gender Justice: The Intersection of Feminism and Sovereignty
40:47 Inspiration and Legacy: The Future of Africa
45:00 Outro - Overnight Wisdom

#activism #political-leadership, #labour-rights #decolonization #pan-African

Chapters

• 0:00 Overnight Wisdom Intro
• 0:30 Introduction of Linda Massarira
• 1:26 Linda's Journey from Labor Activism to Politics
• 5:37 Founding LEAD: A New Political Movement
• 11:33 The Impact of Solitary Confinement on Activism
• 18:30 Redefining Leadership and Commitment to Change
• 23:22 Empowering African Women: A Legacy of Resistance
• 24:36 The Journey Towards African Sovereignty
• 26:54 Financial Liberation: Breaking Free from Dependency
• 33:08 Religion as a Tool for Division and Unity
• 38:22 Gender Justice: The Intersection of Feminism and Sovereignty
• 40:47 Inspiration and Legacy: The Future of Africa
• 45:00 Outro - Overnight Wisdom

Transcript

0:03

Welcome to Overnight Wisdom, a show where we sit with changemakers, artists, business leaders, and thinkers. Each conversation is an invitation to slow down, to go deeper, and unearth the quiet insights that shape who we are. If you're seeking honest reflections, unexpected wisdom, and a deeper understanding of what it takes to not merely survive, but to thrive. You're in the right place. What does it mean to lead with conviction? Today, we sit with Linda Masarira, former train driver, label activist, and founder of a political party forged in fire. From freedom to solitary confinement, her story is one of resistance, reinvention, and relentless vision. We talk about justice, gender, decolonization. Re-indigenization and the strength it takes to build what you may never fully see. This is not just a conversation, it's a lesson in clarity, courage and the future of African sovereignty. Welcome to Overnight Wisdom. Hi Linda. Welcome. Really appreciate having you here. How are you doing today? I'm fine. It's warm and sunny here in Zimbabwe and thank you for inviting me on your podcast. Thank you. Thanks for being here. So I want to start by just framing a little bit about your origins and personal transformation. Your journey began as a train driver and labor leader, which eventually led you to become a prominent human rights activist and political figure. Can you share how your early experiences in the labor sector influenced your path towards activism and politics? Thank you very much for that question because it takes me back right to my roots and how I became very conscious in the way of the labour violations and the labour injustices in Zimbabwe. Initially, my labour activism actually started where I was employed as a computer technician. That was in the 2000s. And I realised during that time that being a woman in a male-dominated space Every other male figure wanted to supervise my work even though we're the same grade. Later on I realized that they were actually earning more than me, yet we were in the same grade. I had to fight for equal pay. I had to fight for me to be able to be regarded as an equal in the technical room. And it was a mammoth task. That is when I started realizing that we were not equal. As males and females. And that is where my fight for gender justice and labor justice started. I eventually got fired for organizing workers and moved to Systems Technology where I was also employed as a computer technician and later on was promoted to a systems administrator. But later on, we also started facing the same problems of underpayment of salaries. Salaries not coming on the timed date and that's when I started realizing that there was a lot of exploitation in the private sector. I applied for a job at NRZ in 2006. I thought it would be better because her government was in control and in charge even though it was a quasi-government institution. I realized that it was actually worse than the private sector where I was coming from because That itself shows you how workers in Zimbabwe are not treated well, how they face a lot of a systematic labor injustice, how exploitation is real and institutionalized and to date that hasn't changed. When people try to rise up, I mean, workers try to rise up and be a force to reckon with and correct the injustices, they end up getting fired. I've been fired a record of five times in my lifetime and I eventually got fired at NRZ as well after leading protests demanding our salaries because we had gone for nearly six years from about 2006-07 to around 2013. We had no fixed pay date and at one time we went for nearly six months with no salary. And what they just woke up and said, enough is enough, we cannot go on like this. We need to fight. We So for me, my activism was born way before the rail tracks. And as a train driver, I also witnessed how workers were maltreated, underpaid, overlooked, and exploited. I couldn't continue to ignore the injustice, but it led me to be abducted, to be arrested, to be told that I was actually working for some Western government to destabilize the country. I became a state security threat. Actually, I eventually got fired in 2015. And I remember the day I got fired on the front of the Chronicle newspaper, Iblawayo, there was a headline on the front page, written, NRZ fires the militant and radical, and that was me. So for me, organizing within the labor movement gave me my political foundation. It taught me that the fight isn't just for better wages, it's for dignity, equity, equality, and a system that works for all of us. And I believe that we still haven't achieved our labor revolution in Zimbabwe. And that is why the first word in the political party I later formed is labor, because labor injustice is the order of the day in Zimbabwe. Fascinating to hear how people become who they are and what the societal factors and conditions that drive that becoming So you just talked briefly lead Labour Economists and African Democrats is that correct? Yes it is. Okay, so we see the story you've told us uh of your becoming is what led you to establishing LEAD as a new political party when it was founded. I'm curious as to, know there are a number of political movements and perhaps parties in Zimbabwe, so I'm wondering What distinguishes LEAD from other movements? Actually, all the time I was in labour activism, I was actually a member of the MDC. But there a lot of things I realised along the way that the fight for labour justice had long departed from the leadership of the party. They had also joined the bandwagon of primitive accumulation of wealth, and they also joined the politics of patronage and populism. They no longer really served the people they purported to serve. And for me, I had a moment of reckoning and say, we need to challenge this political system. We need to challenge this binary political system because then everything was just about MDC and ZANU-PF. And if you were not part of either MDC or ZANU-PF by system or by design, you were assigned to be. And an enabler of either of the two and that still persists in our political economy. 45 years after independence, we'll still have people with political blinkers in our country. But I realized that MDC had long excluded the people that they claimed to serve. And the party actually being born out of a trade union, it was actually sad and heartbreaking for me, especially after having gone through what I'd gone through in different companies and even a parastatal, that those who came from a labor movement had forgotten the routing of the political party. I had to come in and step in and feel that void and remain the voice of the voiceless, stand in solidarity with the workers and continue to pushing for labor reforms in our country. So labor economists and African Democrats was actually born out of frustration within a political system that was stuck in binary thinking. And I still believe Zimbabweans need a new home. They have not up to today accepted the fact that we can have a multi-party system that works, which has kept us in a sort of bondage of corruption of unethical conduct and a whole lot of vices that continue to suffocate our political economy in Zimbabwe. So our party values people over power. We value policy over posturing and Zimbabweans are not yet uh, woke to that level of understanding that populism will not transform our political economy. Populism will not transform our economy in Zimbabwe will not transform all the problems that we're crying about. But as a party that is deep rooted in pan-Africanism, we believe that we need to do away with the colonial systems that we inherited when we attained independence. I'll give an example for Zimbabwe. Most of the laws and the kinds of bylaws that we used have not been uh amended, most of them. Since the colonial era and we're still suffering from an oppressive repressive and suppressive system but that changed the colour of the people who are leading it. And so at the end of the day, we will never get to attain the total independence we thought we attained when we celebrated independence on the 18th of April in 1980. So for us as labor economists and African Democrats, we're saying our agenda is to fulfill the aspirations of the liberation struggle, which those who attained power in 1980 have kind of like forgotten. To ensure that they fulfill because when they got into power in 1980, they came in wanting to sit at the same seats the colonizers sat on, live in the same houses they were living in And they forgot the fundamentals that led them into the bushes where so many girl and sons and daughters of Zimbabwe died fighting for liberation. Fighting for land, fighting for equality, fighting for self-determination. So we are still at a stage where we find that most Zimbabweans, and not only Zimbabweans, most Africans are still suffering from a colonial hangover. And as labor economists and African Democrats were saying, our obligation and mandate is to decolonize Zimbabweans, decolonize Africans, for them to start understanding that we are all Africans before we were defined by the borders. That were defined at the Berlin conference Our focus is on pan-Africanism, economic liberation of all African states, not just Zimbabwe, and re-indigenizing governance. We are not here to repeat the same mistakes with new faces. We want to build things differently and we want to be the real tangible change that Zimbabweans aspire to see. And we very much admire Ibrahim Traore because what he's doing is very much in line with the lead ideology. A lot of our audience are not Zimbabweans, and they might not know who Traore is. Can you just provide a short context for what, who that person is? Captain Ibrahim Traore is the current leader of Burkina Faso. He's been walking the steps of the late Thomas Sankara. May his soul rest in peace. He has transformed Burkina Faso in an Afrocentric manner. He has stopped using the Francs and stopped running to France for donor aid and everything. I think he's the golden boy of Africa of the moment. And I believe that the way he's His implemented Africanism and his leadership style in Burkina Faso should actually be emulated by all heads of state in Africa. And just two days ago, he himself and the leader of Mali and Niger actually decided to start a bank, an African bank that is funded by them to be able to develop their countries. And for me, that is what Labour Economists and African Democrats stands for. We've got an ideology document. That speaks to Afrocentric solutions for a united development and transformational Africa. Thanks for sharing. I want to come to an experience you had in 2016. You were incarcerated and you spent some time in solitary confinement. And I can imagine this was a significant event. My question to you is just if we had to look internally, not necessarily on the outside of the work that you produce externally, How did that experience shape your perspective in life? How did it also shape your perspective when it comes to your commitment to human rights advocacy, Actually, Chisom I was arrested and recorded more than 20 times. And at this particular time in 2016, where I was eventually sent to solitary confinement, I led a protest at Chikurubi female prison against the inhuman food that they were giving to female prisoners and those on remand, because I was actually on remand and the justice system in our country was denying me bail. And I was incarcerated for nearly 89 days with no bail So I got tired of the inhumane treatment that most inmates were going through and I organized a protest. So after I got a lot of accusations that I wanted to take control of the country I was defined as a state security threat. I remember even when I used to go to the courts, had more than eight vehicles escorting me with police and riot gear and guns and soldiers. And all I was just fighting against was state repression and systemic misogyny. And that conviction actually made me realize that I was a force to reckon with. And I was actually undermining the gift that God had given me. To fight against an oppressive and repressive system. And the time they took me to solitary confinement, I went into a hunger strike because I didn't trust the food that they were going to give me because And I only remember saying, God, if if I get out of here, I'm going to work to ensure that Zimbabwe will never be a colony again, number one. Number two, no neocolonial agents will ever take charge of Zimbabwe. And number three, that we would ensure that Zimbabwe becomes a sovereign state. And that sovereignty should actually ensure that every Zimbabwean has got equal opportunities to the resources in our country. So the institutions that were actually built from indigenous wisdom and not colonial inheritance is what I believe in. And I think we are now on the way to going there. We are still in a state where we are trying to engage with our government and say we can no longer arrest people for speaking out, for wanting the right things for our country, because there is no one who is more Zimbabwean than the other, and we are tired of the political gatekeeping by the ruling party. And there's one thing that a lot of people do not understand. Solitary confinement strips you bare It makes you question a lot of things. It makes you emotional. It can actually break you if you're not a strong character. Because I was just in this black, dingy space. I didn't even know the sun. I forgot what day it was. There was just a toilet at the corner and I got water once a day. It was stinking. There was no bed. I slept on a concrete floor. So I think the purpose of the system then was to break me totally, but it actually empowered me more and gave me the drive to fight more. I saw purpose. I ended up with clarity on what I wanted to do and what I wanted to achieve. I saw up close how justice in Zimbabwe was just a tool of repression and how the use of lawfare was a reality in silencing voices. I came out with a huge commitment to be a voice for the voiceless, to never fear state power and to keep pushing for systems that uphold human dignity. And up to today, I fight, but my fight is now a bit different because I've adopted engagement. I realized that just fighting will not give us the results that we want. So I am now engaging those in power, those in the justice system, for them to be able to see the need for reform. And when I shifted my lens from just fighting to engagement, a lot of people did not understand that. It started aligning me with Zanu PF or being an enabler or being too soft. But at the end of the day, we cannot continue using violence or the system that is already violent. We need to be able to engage, to use dialogue for conflict resolution. Thanks for sharing. One, it's such a powerful story that you have, and I'm sorry you had to go through that, regardless. It's not, humane. I think it is powerful nonetheless that you came out of that experience more resolute to stand firmer in, your convictions and to have that clarity of purpose and how you want to lead. I'm wondering just out of curiosity, how long were you in solitary confinement? Do you know? Or was that just a blur? I think I was in solitary confinement for about 13 days. 13. Yes. I can't imagine i mean even for people who like their own company it's a different thing when it's imposed on you versus when you have to when you when you choose to do it by yourself you know say stay within the comfort of your own home to reflect on how you move thank you for sharing that i want to lean in a bit around formative shifts because i can imagine that this experience was a formative shift When I spoke to you earlier, you had said something that stuck with me. You said, as we grow, we evolve, and we make corrections as we understand life more deeply. So I do want to ask you, is there a moment that fundamentally shifted or redefined what leadership means to you? Yes, yes, the time I was in solitary confinement. I think that is when my focus shifted. That was the moment I realized that leadership isn't about popularity. It's about sacrifice. A lot of people have got a problem of thinking that if they're the most popular, most liked or most loved, they are leadership. I realized that there are some brutal truths that have to be spoken. The uncomfortable truths that have to be challenged. We live in a society where fake things are accepted, where propaganda is the order of the day. And I decided to do differently. And that shifted me. I moved from being reactive to being intentional because almost every advocacy work that I did was reactive because government has said this, government has done this. I was always in a reactive mood. I decided to plan. I decided to lead from a place of clarity and not a place of anger. And that has always been my message since around 2017, where I've been telling my fellow countrymen that we cannot continue being angry. We can't continue pointing out the ills in our society. We just cannot continue insulting the government of the day and how they're doing things. I shifted and I made sure that the political party we formed in 2019 shifts from just accusations, lamentations, just being angry to being solution oriented, focusing on fixing. How do we fix the health sector? The legal system? The education system? I also realized that we need to live beyond imitation. We are still trapped in colonial scripts, our laws, our education systems, our leadership models. They aren't ours. They do not reflect us as African people. Real liberation means building from who we are, that reflect our realities, values and dreams. And I think that is very important for us. And I think that is who I became when I came out of solitary confinement. I realized that I cannot keep walking in the same footsteps that have failed in the past 20 years that I was in the MDC. Their style of leadership as opposition failed to usher them into power, failed to transform Zimbabwe, failed to change the political system. So I decided to have the courage to be different and to start walking in a different trajectory. And that made me very unpopular, but I'm happy years later, people are now waking up and saying, but Linda is right. We need to do this. Linda has said this before, but at some moment in my political journey, I became very unpopular and maybe the most hated person in Zimbabwe. I wonder though, as a politician, do you ever grapple with the probable reality that, the work you're doing now, there's a chance you might not... I want to frame this properly. So if I frame this for myself, it's sometimes in the work that I do and the spaces that I create. I am acutely aware that the world I want to see, where equity reigns, where people have agency, where people feel a unique sense of freedom, that that world I'm trying to build might not come around in my lifetime. So I'm wondering, do you sometimes grapple with what you're trying to build if that does not materialize in this lifetime? Why do you continue to push? I continue to push because I am not the one who started this journey. Started way before me. We've got African queens like Queen Zenga, Queen Lozikeyi Dlodlo They fought to restore their dignity that was being taken away from them by the colonizers because women were very valuable people in the African society. They were not dormant or second class citizens like what the colonizers brought and framed a woman as being, with spiritual leaders who resisted colonialism. They didn't stop fighting for their dignity. I will not stop because I'm inspiring today's generation and I might inspire the next generation I'm a woman who's not afraid to speak the truth. I'm a woman who demands the future and that future to belong to us as African people and not to anyone else wants to identify us. And the way that they think an African should be, should walk, should think. We are our own people and we should be allowed to have self-determination and to have true African sovereignty. And that is what I fight for on a daily basis. Yes, it might not happen today. It's a journey. Thanks a lot for sharing. Think what I find fascinating about talking to a lot of people on this podcast, I think there's that sense of conviction and clarity on the vision they have and how they want to see it moving forward. And I often find that fascinating in terms of the drivers that push us to build the way that we build. And a connecting thread in a lot of what you've said today, looks at Africa as a continent, Africa as a unit, and what does reimagining a system and structure that is African look like, and especially one that does not emulate, systems that were left behind by colonial powers. And in so many ways, within the African context, we still have a process of coloniality where even though we're not quote unquote under - colonialism, there are still the structures, the systems, the thought processes that continue to remain to this day. So if we look at things even down to say sovereignty to institutions to structural independence, I for one, for example, believe that should only be reserved for occurrences of say like natural disasters but not necessarily developments and I think there's a significant and perhaps deeper cost of chronic dependence on international aid. So on one hand when we look at the current funding freeze from the US and how it basically affected the world Continents across the world. There's also a part that says actually maybe this is a good thing for Africa Maybe this is a good thing for Institutions that need to be stronger. They need to be more independent. So I do want to talk a little bit about financial liberation I know you speak passionately about how African nations and their continued reliance on institutions like the IMF and the World Bank is inherently problematic When we last spoke you also pointed out the irony being bankrolled by the EU and also the African Development Bank being tied to global financial bodies. So in your view, what would a truly sovereign Pan-African institution look like? You are right Chisom, dependency isn't development. It's just debt with lipstick. I am on record, I've been unapologetic about this, overreliance on donor funding crippled Africa and actually increased corruption. Because even on things that we can do on our own, we claim we do not have the funds, pocket the funds, want funders to come and fund us. And that is why most African states are not even independent because whoever pays the piper determines the tune of the song. So at the end of the day, we've had most African countries, even Zimbabwe, having to be mortgaging or trading our natural resources for this funding that they get from Russia, China, you name it and all that. And most African states are actually in debt because of this so-called aid because it is just not free aid. There are a lot of things that the ordinary person does not see that is attached to these so-called in-courts aid. How then do we claim sovereignty when we beg for budgets from the IMF? It actually irritates me to say the least. Why do we send our budgets to the IMF, to the World Bank? Why do we do a whole lot of things when we've got our own economies and our own funders? So these are things that I've always been saying. To what extent is African Union independent? What is funded by the EU? We need our own institutions. I believe that an African monetary fund is possible with the political will and with the leaders with the right frame of mindset to do this. Every African state can actually put in a certain amount of money into this fund the very same way every state in the world was putting money into the World Health Organization If they were putting money into multilateral institutions which they could not control, why can't they converge as African leaders and actually fund their own African monetary fund, their own African health organization, independent credit ratings, intra-African trade hubs, et cetera, et cetera? It is possible, but there is no wil because we were taught to be divided against each other according to tribe, according to religion. We do not trust each other as African people. We start looking at ourselves as South African, Nigerian, and whatever state you look at. But we've got EU as a block. They are united even though they are different countries. But we're failing to do that as African people because I think we really need a paradigm shift of mindset But we're not going there because we are too consumed trying to make the big brother Sam in America very happy to to the expense of the African child, the We need to wake up and start owning our means of resources. Processing our cocoa, our gold, our diamonds, everything, and start selling those things as processed goods. We need to have our own currency that defines us. Why do we still keep using US dollar when we've got many African states that are actually on sanctions from the very same Americans? It's an oxymoron. Why are most West African countries still using the franc? So these are conversations we Now we need to have at continental level different states on how we can actually work together and build a formidable economic hub. We need to find ways to ensure that we weed out these weeds that grew amongst us to divide us. To make of each other. We are one people at the end of the day. We are not going forward because that invisible hand keeps poking within us, bringing and funding terrorism, coming back as the peacemakers, looting our resources like in DRC. How will we progress as Africans if we do not wake up and be smart and saying We are now taking charge of our continent. No come and take away from us. Right. I think that's the paradox of perhaps leadership in Africa is a lot of these questions we're grappling with. And I think, across generations and maybe also my generation and Gen Z's and the generation after that is what is stopping us from being the force. That we know we can be, And I do think, of course, that there is a lot that has... Okay. Selfishness, and corruption. Yeah, I mean, I think that definitely plays a part. Think there's also an aspect of like a systemically designed process and structure that we've been so ingrained in that we're trying to build or reform from within a system that was not really built with the prosperity of Africa in mind. And so I think back to this conversation about what does it actually look like to re-indigenize? What does it look like to dismantle the systems that have been created rather than try to reform from within? But of course, this looks like different things within different contexts. And as much as we can look at colonialism, which has been, responsible for a lot of what we're still reeling from today, I think another aspect of say chaos within our continents and perhaps our countries is also religion which in some sense we can also tie back to colonialism and coloniality. So for religion as a divide I want to look at what does you know that division look like what does the structure for unity how can it be reimagined and I know that religion is one of the most powerful tool for divide and rule in Africa. So I guess I want to hear your views on how do you reckon that faith as both a source of identity, because a lot of Africans are incredibly religious, but it's also been a wedge in the project of African unity. It's a It is, it is indeed, because what I really found interesting about religion as a divide is that the way it was planted in Africa was very systemic. I'll give you an example of how in Zimbabwe all schools were actually missionary schools where students were taught the Bible more than anything else. And I think Zimbabwe is one of the most religious Christian nations in Africa. And I know I laugh about this because sometimes it's not even a laughing matter. Know, women in Zimbabwe would actually die to wear that church jacket. They call it mabachi. And if they're not wearing it, they feel incomplete or they're not sufficient. To be able to survive in a society. So you'll find that some of the civil wars we've got in countries like Nigeria, Mozambique and other countries are actually based on religious factionalism. You're Muslim, I'm Christian. The way you do things is wrong. Your God is wrong. My God is right. And I'm from a different school of thought. Because Africans were never religious people, we were spiritual people. They came and bastardized our spirituality and the way we connected with our ancestors and left us with their Bibles and their Korans. And I'm unapologetic about this. Faith should actually empower us, but in Africa, it was weaponised to divide. Unless and until we reclaim our African spirituality without surrendering our collective identity, we're not going anywhere anytime soon. Unity requires truth telling, even about sacred things. There's nothing demonic about being African and about being proud about who you are and reconnecting to your roots. Reconnecting to your ancestors I've always asked my brothers and sisters in Christianity then that when you're worshipping God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Elijah, God of Elisha, you're actually speaking about the genealogy of Jesus. But the moment you want to actually also observe your own ancestors, the pastors in the Christian churches will tell you that that is demonic. That really speaks a lot about how our own traditional value systems were actually bastardized. So in my thought process and what I think would actually work in terms of messaging and will for African people is we need new African narratives, not precisely new, but to reconnect with the old African narratives, fuse them with how the current African narratives should shape our future. Our leaders, including me, I'm not actually subtracting myself from this, should speak to the people's pain, but also to their power. Our history was distorted. We need to rewrite our history, which was systematically distorted to make us vulnerable, to make us think that we're not good at anything. And that is why a lot of people still think that everything... in Europe and everything, white, everything that's coming from there is far much better than anything in Africa. Language also shapes consciousness. We need griots, artists, educators and leaders who will reawaken the African Renaissance, the African spirit within us. And our collective imagination will help us reconnect with our roots. A people without a strong history will not make it, will not be progressive, will not be united. And I still believe that Africa Africa that can become an economic powerhouse and a force to reckon with. Hmm, yeah, it's really interesting to hear you talk about this and I think perhaps there's room to reflect on what we can build together. I think a lot of Africans who are hardcore on their Christian religion or like Muslim religion and we're not going to take that away from them but how do we actually have a collective consciousness of who we are and how we are outside of a system and a structure that is created around whiteness and for the white gaze and again tied to colonialism tied to religion is also something around like constructs where we can look at gendered spaces of power, for example, or when we look at feminism resistance and what writing or rewriting narratives can look like. And I know that you've consistently spoken out about misogyny that is embedded within Zimbabwean politics. I think you also spoke about that earlier. And you talk about how you navigate that space as a woman who has been called to work and how you've often defined resistance on your own terms. I guess my question for you is how do you see the fight for gender justice within the broader struggle for African sovereignty? Do you think they're separate battles or are they deeply intertwined? This is a very hard question to answer because women are still struggling just to have a political footprint in Africa, not just in Zimbabwe. So it is still work in progress There's a lot of violence that is involved in private elections, So you find that women then just naturally shy away from active political participation I want to inspire more women to say they can do this So we just need a place of convergence as African women where we can tell each other to be our sister's keeper because misogyny is real Patriarchal dominance still persists and it's entrenched. And that is a struggle we have to fight with on a daily basis. Resistance is showing up in spaces where they think you don't belong. Speak our truth to power, occupy our spaces, because if we're not on the dining table, we are definitely the menu. And we need to stop being the menu because we actually constitute more than 50 % of the population in Zimbabwe and in Africa. But we are not on the decision-making tables. We do not hold the levers of power. We need to reclaim our power, because back then Africa was a matriarch. But our matricahy was stolen away from us through colonization. So we need to reclaim our power. In empowering women in Zimbabwe, I actually formed an organization called Zimbabwe Women in Politics Alliance where we've been doing a lot of mentoring and peer-to-peer education on how we can be strong, how we can lead with grace, how we can also occupy those political spaces without losing our femininity. And we actually speaking to feminist transformation We cannot talk of African liberation while excluding half of the population. Feminism is not a Western import, it's African. Our great grandmothers were leaders, healers, warriors. This fight is not separate. It's deeply entwined with our quest for sovereignty. Absolutely, Amen to all of that. Just hearing you talk about this and reimagining what that looks like gives me a lot of joy and also a lot of hope. I do want to ask you about the legacy you want to leave behind. But first, in terms of what endures, you have been grounded in your work, in your purpose. Even in the face of detention, in the face of pushback, institutional resistance, as you said earlier, perhaps at one point the most hated person or woman in Zimbabwe. So just from an internal perspective, what keeps you grounded? My children ground me. They believe in me and they give me purpose. My husband keeps my hope alive. When my passion is about to die, he reminds me that I was called for a time like this. My ancestors guide me. Without them, I wouldn't be here or I would have died long back. And my people inspire me. I have to ensure that I bring forth to them the Zimbabwe that they want. But I cannot do it alone. I have to do it with them. And have a shared common national vision on how to fix our country. Have a shared common continental vision on how to fix our Africa. When the work feels heavy, I remind myself that change is a relay, not a sprint. I do my part knowing others will carry the baton forward. And every morning when I look myself in the mirror, I say, you were created for a time like this. The world might be bumpy, might have portholes, but have a lot of challenges. But you have to ensure that you fight until you win. I may not win it all, but there are some things that I'll win in this journey, and some will be continued by those who carry the baton when I depart from the face of the earth. For the next generation, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. To the young African woman, you are not lost. You are not broken. You are awakening. Read, question, organize, take up space. The future is not written. It is waiting for your voice. To the young African men, you are not defined by patriarchy. You can live in equality with the young woman and build a progressive, just and equal Africa where everyone can thrive. It is not a competition. Dear young African men, do not be defined by colonial constructs or by patriarchal dominance. Be able to live and coexist with a young African woman in unity and equality. Together we can. That is so beautiful. Thanks for sharing. I love what you say about change being a relay not a sprint and that visual that yes, you're handing the baton on to somebody else who will continue the race. Thank you so much for the work that you do. Thank you so much for how you show up, how you take space. And I think regardless political differences or even what separates, all of us in the world. I think we can all agree that the fundamental values that we fight for in terms of agency and safety and dignity and having spaces and countries where we feel a sense of strong belonging and that we feel we can thrive is the goal. And I just feel inspired by listening, to, how you engage this and how you've spent a significant part of your life trying to build a better world for others. So, yeah, with that, I'd love to say thank you so much for taking the time and thank you for being with us. Really appreciate you. I feel like I can listen to you talk forever. But yeah, thanks, Linda. I really appreciate you. You're welcome. Thank you so much, Chisom for the opportunity to share what I think and how we can collectively transform Africa. Thank you. Thanks for sharing. Thank you for spending time with us on Overnight Wisdom. If this conversation moved you, inspired you, or made you pause, please like, leave a comment, or share it with someone who needs to hear it. You can follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're feeling generous, a rating, or review, goes a long way in helping others find us too. Until next time, stay curious, stay tender, and may the wisdom you need find you exactly when you're ready.