Unboxable: On Art, Permission and Joy with Shruti Ganguly

Shruti Ganguly is a filmmaker, writer, and creative entrepreneur whose work spans continents, cultures, and causes. In this episode of Overnight Wisdom, Shruti opens up about the life-altering loss that led her from banking to film, the complexities of navigating identity across geographies, and the discipline of building a purpose-driven creative career.

We explore what it means to speak truth in an industry not built for you, how to lead with both clarity and empathy, and the quiet power of simply trying. From writing “ceasefire” on her arm at the Oscars to producing work that challenges dominant narratives, Shruti reflects on courage, grief, trust, and the joy that sustains her.

This conversation is a masterclass in conviction, craft, and carving a path on your own terms.

Shruti’s Instagram  https://www.instagram.com/shrutirya/?hl=en 

Shruti’s Work on IMDB  https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1785879/

Shruti’s Production Company honto88  https://www.honto88.com/

Transcript

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Welcome to Overnight Wisdom, a show where we sit with changemakers, artists, business leaders, and thinkers. Each conversation is an invitation to slow down, to go deeper, and unearth the quiet insights that shape who we are. If you're seeking honest reflections, unexpected wisdom, and a deeper understanding of what it takes to not merely survive, but to thrive. You're in the right place. What happens when you stop asking for permission and start living as if joy is resistance? This week, I sit down with Shruti Ganguly, filmmaker, producer, writer, and creative force whose journey cuts across continents, identities, grief, and grit Shruti shares how the death of her cousin shattered everything she thought she wanted and opened the path to filmmaking, storytelling, and living without apology. We talk about what it takes to be unboxable, to move through spaces with integrity, and to build a body of work that tells the truth, even when it's risky. She takes us behind the scenes of some of her films, her activism, and her decision to write Ceasefire on her arm at the Oscars. We talk trust, we talk betrayal, we talk business, what it really takes to sustain a creative life. Shruti reminds us that trying is the point, that movement matters, and that joy, when fully embodied, can shake the world. This episode is a conversation in courage, creativity, and becoming. Let's dive in. welcome Shruti. Really good to have you here. How are you doing? Thank you so much. It's good to be here. Yeah, nice to see you. It's been a while. I think now I see you a lot on Instagram, but I think it's been a while since I saw you like in person Right now we have to change that. Yes, we need to. Okay, so now to get into this conversation, I kind of just like to jump into the meat of things. So let's meet you, you know, how did you become the filmmaker writer, multi hyphenate that you are today? Gosh, well, I'm from India and I grew up in Oman in the Middle East and everyone that I knew who had good grades and I had, you know, very good grades, went into finance or consulting. And so I... made the assumption that that's what I needed to do. Although I loved painting and I painted and made art all the time. I love music. indulged in all the arts. I also was very athletic, but there was this kind of idea. it's an ingrained aspect of the Indian education system. because after 10th grade, you're deciding if you're going into commerce, science or the arts. And there was this notion that if you had the good grades, you were going to science and commerce. And anyway, I chose to go to boarding school in the Himalayas for high school, possibly because I didn't want to choose and also because I felt like I had grown up in a bit of a bubble in Oman. And as someone of Indian origin, I also wanted to know what it really meant and felt like to grow up in India. So I wanted to spend high school there. And so From India, I then come to college in Chicago to Northwestern. And I had even had an internship at a bank between high school and college. I was so motivated. This is what I'm going to do. And I worked in retail and investment banking. And I was an economics major and a fine art double major. And then the following year, I had an internship at Ernst & Young. and I think, a lot of times when people are confronted with death, there's a shift that happens. And I guess that is also part of my story. because in many ways I lived vicariously through my cousin's sister, who we had grown up together in Oman and she had gone back to Delhi and really embraced the arts as her full and complete career. It was hard to turn on the television without seeing her on it. She had her own show on Channel V, which is popular music channel, called What Women Want. And she was just fearless and confident and just an incredible inspiration to me. And I felt like, my cousin Pooja is doing this. I can be the, the nerdy one that appreciates the arts. I'll be the banker or the consultant that paints on weekends. And then I was 19 and my cousin who was a year older than me, was killed in a car accident. in Delhi. And I feel like my entire life stopped in that moment. And I was, of course, confronted with this, real sadness and deep pain because we were very close. And she was really my sister. And I think after a year of being in a bit of cloud, this haze of confusion, I then had this epiphany, it'll be our time at some point, that's going to be the natural order of things for everyone. So why don't I really try and figure out what I would love to do, because I'm not loving this. And this is what I think I should do or I need to do. It's an imposed idea on me. that I'm also going along with. And so I then took classes that sounded more interesting and whether it was speech writing to 20th century British literature to a class called Women in Indian Cinema, which is being taught by a visiting professor from Bombay. And that was a class that changed my life. because it was the first time I had really seen movies as something beyond just entertainment or an excuse to enjoy incredible theater popcorn with my dad. But that movies could really move things. And the first film I watched was a film by Satyajit Ray called Pather Panchali. And that's the film that changed my life. I know I give a very long answer to my story, but I think, it's someone who's grown up in these multicultural spaces and identity is also an important part of my story. It's why I start there. I don't start with, this is the class that changed my life. I start with, this is who I am and where I'm from, because I think all of these factors contribute. to why I've become a filmmaker and why I also write and why I engage in multiple things. Thanks for sharing. I love that. I'm thinking about, similarities. I think maybe this is a consequence of being colonized by the Brits in Nigeria as well. The classes that you have science class, commercial class and arts class and like science and commercial is like where everyone should be, right? Because they had the four. professions, engineering, business, law, know, the things our parents approve of. So it's interesting also hearing that perspective. You went that route and then shifted. Also wanted to say sorry for your loss. there's also a shift that happens when they lose somebody. I reflected that for me as well, losing my dad in 2015 changed the trajectory of my life. Living at the intersection of all these different identities and cultures. I wonder how has that Shifting sense of belonging because I also imagine that you belong in all these places shaped the way you tell stories today? I grew up in a place where my family is not from. And when you are an expat, which is different from an immigrant, there's an aspect of things feeling temporary, that you are only here for a little bit and then you're going to go back. Even from India, I... come from a pretty, you know, multicultural background where my father is, his family is Bengali from Delhi and my mother is Anglo-Indian where her father was born in Banu in the Northwest Frontier Province of, what is now Pakistan and then lived in Lahore and, then met the love of his life, which was my British grandma and they moved to India during partition. And my grandmother had grown up in India. Her parents had lived in India. So my own family background has the layers of, colonialism, cross- cultural, like a mishmash. My father is Hindu, my mother is Christian. I grew up in a Muslim country and then went to an international boarding school in India So I think that foundation of my identity has really helped me. actually land in different cultures and be a sponge and hopefully be very respectful to the experience of people from the place. And when people say, you know, where are you from? I can't answer it in the same way my husband can, where he can just simply say four letters and he can say Oslo If you ask me where I'm from, I have four parts that I have to say, which is I'm Indian by way of Oman, and I live in Oslo and New York. And so I think that there is a certain type of ability to maneuver amongst different cultures I don't have any intention, even as a filmmaker. to show up in spaces with a preconceived notion, with an assumption, with any type of manner of this is how it's going to be. If I'm gonna be in someone else's space, I am just going to be listening. I think that my filmmaking is greatly informed by that aspect of my own. background. I love that. When was your first filmmaking experience? So my first filmmaking experience was when I created an independent study program. during the fall of my senior year, and I was gonna write these various papers over the semester about what I was discovering. And I must admit it was the best and easiest 4.0 I've ever received on my transcript. And I show up, but I do not know anything. And I was meant to be working on my friend Ruchi Narayan's set. She had wanted me to act in her film and I said, I don't wanna act in it, can I work on it? And I show up and she's like, my God, you really don't know anything. And I said, no, I don't. And she said, listen, Sudhir Mishra, who's a director she had worked with closely, he is about to direct another film or he's in the midst of directing a film called Chamele. So why don't you just be an intern on that set and then you can work on mine. So I became this intern running around with the assistant directors, and this is over 20 years ago, and worked on this incredible independent Indian film. And that was all night shoots, and the film took place at night and in the rain. And so it was really getting thrown into the deep end in so many ways and having a completely offbeat schedule. And I'm still very close friends with all the people I learned with. And that was my first immersive experience, why I got thrown onto this set, was just learning. And then I worked on Ruchi's film and became her assistant director. That's great. Thanks for sharing. I'm curious. I got credit for Toodle off to Bombay while all my friends were being recruited. And my parents were having a freak out because we said, we did not send you to college in America to make movies in India. We're not a film family. You did really well at school. What is this? I understand that those statements come from a place of fear now. When is this hobby going to stop? Yeah. you know, I knew when I knew. Hmm. I think it's great and brave as well that you follow your path, Because I think a lot of people who come from expectations to go a certain way or have a certain profession, oftentimes they suppress the part of them that wants to explore something else, So I always find that quite interesting in terms of how that shift happens. But I'm curious for you, you visibly present as South Asian, but you also have these different experiences. You come from these different countries, identities and cultures and now you are in film. Do you feel any sense of pressure to carry South Asian narratives to the global stage? I think that when I went to grad school, eventually for film, where I, well, I did my MBA at Stern and my MFN film at Tisch, both at NYU. I was just taking opportunities and I was working with a Hollywood actor, a white Hollywood actor, and developing projects with him and his company that didn't necessarily have that representation per se. And I just took everything on that was a learning experience I think now, over the years, I mean, and I still work on a range of different things. I'm producing a movie now with Guy Pearce and Pamela Anderson. Okay. with directors and I, know, Rania Atiye and Daniel Garcia and my producing partner, Molly Asher, who won an Oscar for Nomadland. I mean, there's nothing South Asian about the project at all, I've worked with Rania and Daniel for gosh, over a decade and produced their previous films, I've always loved working with them because I felt like my experience as a filmmaker has expanded. But then there are choices that I make there that build on relationships and opportunities. And at the same time, I have a production company called Prism that I started a few years ago with two other partners because we felt like we were being put in situations where our South Asian identity in all its vastness was being funneled into a box and that it was incredibly frustrating. And so through a complaining session we had on Zoom during COVID, we decided, look, we can get together and vent to each other, which is also very healthy, but we can also come together, build a slate of projects, and be a part of changing that narrative and fight like hell for representation, not for representation's sake. We always want to focus on the story and we're pretty mindful of who we are also collaborating with. And the other thing we have to be mindful of is our own capacity. when we came together, we did not make an announcement like, here's this new production company in this very typical Hollywood industry way of, We wanted to be incredibly intentional around how we were building this company. Are we, we never describe ourselves as a South Asian female led production company, even though that is the makeup of us as partners. we have a natural inclination to stories of South Asian representation, but it will not necessarily be exclusive to that. if it's an idea that's told to us in a way that feels fresh and exciting, that's gonna take on the medium or a genre or... you know, a retelling. For example, we got involved with a film called Patel, which is a very common Gujarati last name. And in the U.S., there's a whole community of Patels who run motel businesses. And so this director, Ravi Kapoor, set the story of Macbeth in the world of Patel motels. And we just thought it was a really fresh take and it was darkly funny and one of my partners had worked with Ravi before. And so we were really excited to, you know, take that on with an incredible South Asian cast one of the other projects we did was at first we thought we would only focus on scripted. And then we decided to get involved with a project before its Toronto premiere. And that's a documentary called To Kill a Tiger directed by Nisha Pahouja that follows a poor farmer who's seeking justice for his daughter's gang rape. And this is unfortunately the story of many in India, but what we found really incredible beyond Nisha's just impeccable filmmaking was that this is a story of a man who is going to do the work for his daughter. And that was a perspective that we hadn't necessarily seen in the conversation around justice for women and girls. And so. the film ended up getting nominated for an Oscar for best feature documentary. And then we continued working with Nisha and the team on the impact campaign as well. So we kind of are working from a certain place, but at the same time, we keep it loose and expansive. I really love that. I also love the show it rather than tell it, you know? And I think about this a lot of times, say even with themes around justice, diversity, inclusion, I think sometimes the best we can do is to show the thing. You can sit there and talk about how this is important, all you want, or do that big announcement, or you can just show it by the people you put forth by how you think about, accessibility, for example. So that's kind of also what's coming up for me when I, when I hear you talk about, of course you are naturally inclined to center South Asians. You're not limiting yourself, you're quite expansive and you go for the good stories, that speaks to the human spirit. So that's pretty great. Thank you. As an artist, when do you confront? When do you nurture? Like how do you decide, okay, now I'm gonna just shake the tree. When you say shake the tree, can you tell me more about which tree am I shaking? I think any tree, you know, it's in terms of when do you confront through your art, Or when do you hold together, piece together, I have the privilege of being able to be completely clear in my conviction and my beliefs about how I want to work, who I work with and what I work on. And I can't say that a lot of people may necessarily be able to feel that way because they have day jobs or they have visa things that. prevent them from speaking in a way that can be completely fearless or ferocious. And I think that is a privilege to be able to use your voice in the way that you fully and completely want to. So I know that when we were at the Oscars last year with the To Kill a Tiger team, I wore my artist for ceasefire pin, but I felt like it wasn't still enough. I would rather have been at the protest outside, to be honest. And then I thought, how do I bring the protest inside? And a friend of mine in a conversation, she said, well, why don't you just write ceasefire on your arm? And I said, fine. And I remember telling my stylist the day of said, I know you're gonna be upset because this is gonna take away some attention from the dress, but I'm gonna write ceasefire on my arm. And my stylist Ambika said, I'll write it for you. And she did. And you can imagine that this was, in 2024. So not like everyone had come around in the way they have, let's say, more recently around the situation in Palestine and Gaza. That history did not begin on October 7th. So I know that even doing that could have fully cost me my career in Hollywood. But I also work in an industry that was never made for someone like me anyway. And so whose permission am I really needing to make these decisions? As long as, you know, my partners, My collaborators know that, and I think that they're all fully aware of my perspective and the non-film work per se. I mean, that's who I also want to work with too. Now, not all of them may necessarily be as public as I am, but I don't necessarily expect them to be. I was good just going to ask on that actually in terms of I hear you when you say There is privilege in being able to Use your voice in the way that you want. I feel that I share that but I also know it comes with significant loss sometimes at least for me, but that is a loss I can do without like I feel it but I can be like, okay It's what it is, you know, there's always a cost, right? But this I can bear. do you, is that something you navigate I am sure there are opportunities that have not come my way because of my perspective. I don't necessarily know what they are, but those are opportunities I don't want them either. earlier you had talked about, I mean, how people reflect on Palestine and Gaza at the moment a lot better than how they did last year, which was still very much muddled up in denial, but there's still a significant aspect of what is happening that is very much denied. Right? So What do you think is currently dangerous in the way we see this geopolitical discourse unfolding in global media today? And how do you think it should be rewritten? History is always gonna be told from a certain perspective. I think that... the openness one needs to possess to realize that the history that they've been handed may be revisionist, may be false, may be manipulative, that they need to have the capacity whenever they're ready to do the deep dive and to throw out everything that they thought they knew. And some people are not ready for it. Some people can. I think it requires an annihilation of self, really, to really dig in and say, what is the truth? Or what is the truth I want to subscribe to in this world? Right? And you hope that that choice is one where People get treated with respect, dignity, and equality. if we're going to look at October 7th in particular, I mean, I think Hamas is terrible, right? There's no denying that. I think it also requires an analysis of the IDF's own involvement in the creation of Hamas, which people may not necessarily know. I'm no expert when it comes to Middle Eastern history, even though I grew up in the region, but even on a very basic level, I think it requires some aspect of study. And I have a lot of very close friends who are Jewish. I have a lot of close friends who are Israeli as well. And we have had many conversations about these things. And I would say that they're all in different stages of their own exploration. But I also talk to them and say, if there's ever anything you really need to talk to me about because of my social media or my perspective. I hope you know that we have a friendship that we can have that discussion. And I remember talking to a friend of mine in particular, an incredible musician. And she said, but truthfully, I agree with everything you say. but I always check in because it's important. you know, when you have friends who also may come from those backgrounds who are having to do that self-exploration for themselves or navigate how to talk about those things with their family. Yeah. to be a good friend. I have to say I admittedly with some of my Israeli friends in the beginning, I struggled, And I think what I have learned over the past two years or so in having those kinds of conversations is bring into the table that this multiple realities can coexist, know, saying that the Israeli government is deeply entrenched in the genocide of the Palestinian people is true. And at the same time that Hamas can evaporate and they don't need air, you know, but also being able to say, I don't always need to have those conversations in tandem, it's interesting as well because I think for people who have their identities cemented into this geopolitical construct, there is a loss that comes with it. But of course, there's still that difficulty in having this conversation and holding that space for Israeli colleagues or, you know, Palestinian colleagues. So that's always. that fine balance. think what you say about reaching out and opening, space for conversation is so important. I mean, I was filming in London this past week and I went to an event called Together for Palestine, which was at Wembley Arena, and it was incredible. And the partner of a friend of mine, and he's, you know, straight white British male, and he said, I was also at that gathering. I was like, it's also depressing. What's the point? And I said to him, I said, can you imagine what it felt like to be someone who's Palestinian, who attended or who spoke? And you look out and you feel the support. You feel that. That is what this is for. I mean, it so happens that now the UK is, you know, recognizing Palestinian statehood, even though they're so, I believe, funding, you know, weapons. ah But movement matters. And so I also think that to have the empathy of the people who are scared because they're really kind of digging in and reflecting. And I've had friends who've had to really rethink the things that they were told, whether it's, from, trips to conversations with family. And I think it's important to hold that space for them. because all of us can show up with our own opinions, but I think it's really important to create the space for why somebody has a certain perspective. I remember working on a film, about a woman who was one of the early cases for the Time's Up Legal Defense Fund, during the, Me Too movement. who is a guard at a nuclear research facility who was violently sexually assaulted by her colleagues. And here I am making a film about her as she's seeking justice against two of America's biggest defense contractors. And I film with her in Nevada, it's myself and my Arab Canadian lesbian cinematographer, who's an incredible colleague, Amber Farahs, and here we show up. to meet Jennifer Glover, who voted for Trump twice, possibly a third time, and has 17 guns in her house. and could not possibly come from a surface perspective for me. But here I am making a film about her and telling her story. Granted, I got subpoenaed by one of the defense contractors because they're terrified of this film, but the film will get made. It's been on hiatus. But I was confronted with someone I did not necessarily agree with, who I deeply empathize with, that the more... I got to understand her childhood and why she needed the guns, why she went into defense, where she came from, her family. I understood it. And she's a friend. So I think... You know, there's some people who may say that they'd support Trump because they just want access to power. And I have very little time for those people, frankly. But I think if people make certain choices about who they want to support, because it may come, and you understand, possibly the trauma that pushes their perspective forward. That makes me understand. Hmm. Yeah, I think it allows for grace, right? Because you understand where people come in from and yeah, I have friends who have completely different political dispositions, you know, from me. And it's interesting just navigating that and knowing the people, knowing they are good people. And then you have that decision to make. Yeah, so I still struggle because I have so many people in my life who politically, we couldn't be further apart. But then when you understand where they're coming from, where you understand the cultural context in which they exist in. doesn't allow it doesn't absorb them but it allows at least for me grace that i can have empathy because empathy is not agreement but i can empathize with them and show grace while still disagreeing with them I mean, I think that a lot of people come from certain perspectives because of a certain fear, right? But then the question is, why do you fear that? Why do you fear that person? What do you fear is going to happen? Is this really what you should be most scared of? I mean, when people are talking in the US, America's history of gun violence is just, I mean, it's horrifying. And I think for, people, you're always kind of waiting with bated breath being like, I hope it wasn't an immigrant. I hope it wasn't a queer person. I hope it wasn't a brown or black person. I hope it wasn't a Muslim person. I hope it wasn't. And it's... most of the time, it's straight white men. And why are we not fearing them more? You know what I mean? It's like, you see when there was the horrendous, know, Anders Breivik shooting in Norway, they completely changed their gun law. Like America has an obsession with guns. That has to be curbed. Yeah, I hear you I have to say that whenever there's anything shooting related wise in the US, in the world, I think, oh my gosh, please, let it not be an immigrant. Let it not be a black or brown person. I always think that, you know, and everyone recently know where Tamama was murdered. And I had to just come out and say it like white men continue to kill, but we keep being sold this idea that they are safe Right. So I think it's, it's, are the difficult conversations and the things we don't want to talk about because when a white man kills, you know, of course, like it has mental health issues, but then the rest of us were just terrorists and hooligans and immigrants. And I mean, there's just a lot to manage and navigate in that sense. Okay. I want to shift a bit to business. So first, because when you were saying earlier about production, I just wanted to ask what goes into producing a film? What do you do? What does that look like? I mean, producing a film, any company, there's so many ways in which a company is built. And so I think the way to understand it, at least in the American context, because when you're going into production, you build an LLC for the project. And it can be generated in every film, because when you're raising, especially millions of dollars, It is a product. The film is a product that has the sales value, that has a marketplace. That's way to think about it. The unromantic version. you know, when you're dealing with budgets of a certain scale, like there has to be an understanding between art and commerce. And I think films can come about in various different ways. There are times where... during COVID, was developing a book called Secret Daughter and with these producers and I mean, during COVID, was producing two movies that couldn't happen because we just simply couldn't go into production. So I was developing the story as a writer and we came up with a treatment and then we did attachments. So we got Sienna Miller and Priyanka Chopra involved and then we got this multi-can winning director, Anthony Chen. And then we had our package because it was still an independent film. but it had a package and then we went out and pitched and we met like a dozen possible buyers, which range from financiers to distribution companies and Amazon bought the project. everything I'm telling you, it sounds like I can tell the story in two minutes, but it takes like two years, even this process. And from the time we closed our contracts with Amazon, I closed my contract with Amazon, which took several months to negotiate to the time that I finally got going on the writing. And then I turned it in the day before the writer's strike. And then I went on strike because I'm in the writer's guild of America. I'm in the union. And now, you know, that movie would have been fully financed by Amazon. there would have been some rounds of writing and adjustments of the materials and that Amazon would have financed it based on, you know, the budget that the line producer would build. they would also be the distributors of it. Now is the film... going to be an awards play, what is happening there, because at least on the independent side, there's a big focus on that, because the investment in the marketing, the investment in the awards run begets more deals, foreign sales. I mean, in the case of the movie that we're doing with Pamela and Guy, you know, again, that operates in a different way, too. Now, those are American films. would say that in Europe, it works differently. You don't need to necessarily have the package before you're going out because you get a lot of support from governments here on the development of the idea as well. Because over here, you know, you see the distinction between film really being considered an art form and in America and Hollywood how it's perceived as a business Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. you can find a healthy balance between the two, of course. From that business sustainability perspective, what have you learned in what it takes to actually keep something going? I mean, you've been doing this for 20 years and now you have production companies. also recently wrote something Yeah. always writing. I think I'm always writing. I mean, I think that the industry is always evolving. I think it's a particularly challenging time right now because you're seeing the aftermath of the writer's strike, of COVID, of the fires in LA, of the consolidation of massive business, of AI also coming in and advocating how to keep costs down, maintain creativity. And it's just in a new place. And I would say that five years ago, or even 10 years ago, was in a different place. 20 years ago, we weren't really necessarily shooting movies digitally either. And I would say that you didn't have companies like Amazon and Netflix that were even players in the space. That was serious contenders in the space. So I think that the industry is constantly changing and you have to think about how to change with it. But ultimately how you have to sustain yourself. And I think a lot of people that I've met are getting out of the business because it's become challenging for them. Yeah, I can imagine that as an entrepreneur, business owner. I think oftentimes being an entrepreneur myself, think people romanticize, you know, we come out when the thing is finished. It's glossy. They don't really see the sleepless nights, the hustle that goes. I mean, you also qualified this fantastically where you say it takes you two minutes to talk about it, but it took two years to even get it to where it needed to be. So looking back. what are some mistakes, that you would warn any creative entrepreneur to avoid and what helped you recover from yours? I would say... prepared to be. disappointed and hurt and feel the pinch of many challenges. but figure out how to contain them and how to grow from them because better decisions will come through those trials by fire. There'll be interpersonal dynamics that will be challenged. Like all of those things will happen. Everything hard that can happen to you is going to happen in some form or the other, but it's how you deal with it and how you grow from it that will be the greatest armor that you're building. I would not say don't make mistakes. Like, yes, you're going to make mistakes. It's going to happen. I mean, hopefully there are mistakes that one can recover from and that you're also operating from a place of decency, transparency, and ethical standards. I think one of the things that is really helpful is to expect the best work from the people that work with you is to communicate your expectations and timelines in a way that is clear. And also articulate in some cases, you know, your own possible shortcomings or challenges. Because even seeing that you can be a leader, but you can also be vulnerable in certain situations, whether it's personal or other professional strain and knowing whether your employees can also hear it, it also creates a certain type of domino effect in terms how they're communicating back with you. And I think communication, clear communication, good and even bad, but just communicating is, I think, the cornerstone of any company or relationship or collaboration. And that gives you the allowance to be better at what you do. What happens when you communicate and your expectations are not met? I mean, I'm a pretty stern colleague when it comes to expectations that were meant to be or goals that were meant to be achieved that aren't. And then what I try and do is I try and understand the why. And then I have to, if I can empathize and understand the why. or whether I don't, it's about setting up another guidepost and then saying clearly whether one can tolerate, you know, it's either like a warning or there's an adjustment or there's a removal of responsibility because especially when you have your own business and if your business is impacted because of somebody else's work. and that they have fallen short of matching what that goal is, then you also have to ask yourself to what is the give here? How am I compromised or how much has been sacrificed? And is there even the space for that to happen again? So I think you have to kind of, the analysis should not only happen when you're confronted with the issue. because your company is going to grow any which way. And then there's going to be another thing and another thing. It's not this necessarily linear fashion, especially in a startup culture. And you know, you have to try and also find the people who want it as much as you do. But at end of the day, it's also not their company either. But the thing is to figure out Well, what is your beyond, let's say a paycheck, where, why do you want to be here? Where do you want to grow? And how can I also provide that as somebody who wants to see you succeed and your success is tied to my success. I love that Yeah, I think something I learned. And also just. is. hard to be a manager because you're just trying to figure out stuff constantly. And unless you have the system where somebody else is managing people or you have an HR person or partners that can also take on certain responsibilities. And there are some people who are very good at doing that. Maybe you're the person who's like the big picture thinker who does not want to get caught in the weeds and like you're not the systems person. You're not the operations person. Okay. If you're not that person, do you have somebody else who has that skill set? to the thing. How do you divide in a way that's healthy? Because I want to try and do everything is all consuming. And it doesn't give you the allowance for anything to go wrong. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think a lot about this because I I engage with a lot of women leaders, business owners, entrepreneurs. And I think it was something I had to unlearn maybe a decade ago or so just around I can be nurturing, I can be inclusive, but I do not necessarily need to have all that nurture and inclusion within my organization that I can still be inclusive and let you go. You know, and I think those are some of the hardest bits for me. You know, how quickly do you cut the cord or do you nurture - and see maybe gets better, maybe in three months, but then it doesn't get better. So how do you make those decisions? Yeah, I mean, I do think that, look, maybe, you know, one is a little older and comes from a generation of like, you're going to have really tough instances with bosses and you're going to have the challenges and that you're going to work through it. It's not going to be, like a follow your passion and it's just going to be great. Right. And I think that with some of the younger people I've worked with, I try and gauge whether they have that same type of, I would call it the immigrant mindset, which is just like a no matter what attitude, the hustle, that you just want this or you want something from this because like, this is an opportunity for you. It's not a burden to you, that the job is not a burden, that it is a way. to kind of also absorb and grow and you can go from there. Like I think the expectation of someone being with you along that whole journey if they didn't start the company with you is I think not very likely for that person. They may have their own entrepreneurial dreams or perhaps they just need a job for now. And when you know that they're viewing the work in a certain way, then you can also manage your own expectations. Hmm, absolutely, absolutely. You you do this work, you tell stories. At the end of the day, because we all have a finite, amount of time in the world, what do you hope that your body of work says about who you are and what you stood for? I think that I have been able to build relationships with people who I continue working with. And I think the longevity of those relationships for me is as important as the projects that we take on as well. And I would hope that as a filmmaker, whether it's scripted, unscripted, film or television, short form, which I already have like a pretty vast range of like unboxable stuff across genre, across subject, across form. And that in every choice I make that each choice furthers me, whether it's something I've written or directed, whether it's something I've produced, that there is an aspect of growth and a a breath of work. I never had the luxury or choice to stay in one lane and to have a very linear path. Because after I graduated from college, it was a few years after 9-11, it was not like I was getting my visa sponsored in the arts. It's not like the arts were also going to be the thing that at that point were my sustainable paycheck. So I've always been needing as part of my own survival in New York, a very expensive city, to do multiple things. And in a way, I'm kind of grateful for that effort and experience. And, you know, again, the mindset is the natural survival mechanism. And no matter what it takes attitude and I would hope that my work as a filmmaker or the work I will do as a writer or the community spaces I have built will act as a resource for new generations, will act as inspiration, will show what you can do. And I was joking with somebody saying, on my cremation urn, If there was going to be something, I think it would just simply be two words. Shruti - tried. I love that. I really love that. That resonates. you know, in some spaces I hold, I rarely get rejected now in finance and economics and all of that. And now I'm doing this podcast and I'm reaching out to random folks all over the world. And oh my gosh, the amount of ghosting I get, rejections I get, that's always fascinating. and I've just had to reframe that because I've not, I'm not used to being rejected so much, right? And I had to reframe that as, okay, I'm trying. It's a, I'm almost, it's a trophy for me, you know? And of course, when I started out in May, when I would write 200 emails and get one yes, now I'm writing 50 emails and getting two yeses. I'm just like, okay, something is improving here on a ratio basis. The trying resonates with me. think that's how we grow. We have to be trying. We have to continue trying. I mean, it's amazing how people want to be successful while being lazy. That's just simply rarely going to happen. And it's certainly not going to sustain. And I want to be known for just having worked really, really hard. And I don't need other people's impressions of what success should be like or to feel like. because I think my film work is deeply connected with my movement work. It's deeply connected to my community work. It's deeply connected to my personal beliefs. So it's a pretty holistic way of being. And I mean, I think that to some extent that has its negatives possibly because it can be all consuming, but I look at it as an incredible privilege to feel. like these things are not necessarily siloed. Yeah, they're not separate. Yeah, I feel that. So these days, what are you working on? I know you're working on a lot of different things, but what is the? I'm working on many things right now. I have been in London filming a documentary on the legendary jazz and disco icon from the Andy Warhol era and Studio 54. Her name is Asha Putli. You probably have never heard of her name, which is also part of the reason why I'm making this film, because she's been an incredible force, not just in music, but also in culture, especially as a South Asian woman and an Indian woman who moves from Bombay. and kind of makes it in America, but again, is like a pioneer, is ahead of her time, is too early. But someone like me, I've been able to probably have the experience I have because someone like Asha came before me, because she broke down boundaries. And I'm telling Asha's story, looking at her work, her vast influence, and last week, I was interviewing Damon Albarn from Blur and Gorillaz because he just worked with her on the new Gorillaz album. and he's a mega fan. a month ago I was with Mark Ronson who also is a massive fan of Asha. Not to say that I need to have like straight white men validating like the success of a brown woman, but it... her. They've experienced her and they appreciate her and it's why her story needs to get told. And now Asha Putli at 80 years old has gone on her first global music tour, the first ever for her with a live band. She just did a song with Gorilla. She's having this incredible resurgence, but really at the end of the day, I'm directing a film that's about family and about love and the relationship between Asha and her son. is very much the centerpiece for this film. it's so incredible to tell, know, and be trusted with telling someone's life story when you can't help but reflect on your own. And Asha says to me, you know, Shruti, I see myself in you. And I take that as a massive compliment. you know, taking from someone who existed in spaces and was completely not boxable, who broke boundaries. And when she says that, I'm deeply humbled and sometimes overwhelmed by it. I love that. So you're filming this across continents as well. Yes, I've been filming in the US. I was just filming, you know, in Europe and UK and then we will go to India. That's great. Okay. What is a book that changes the way you think? my cousin he and I were walking around in Delhi and he said, I'm buying you this book. And it was Paulo Coelho's book, The Alchemist. And I remember it just had such a profound effect on me in a way that a book hadn't done yet because I think it was so philosophical while being incredibly lyrical in its nature. And that was a book I connected with deeply. Yeah, it's a great book. If your work could teach the world one lesson, what would it be? If my work. could teach the world one lesson. Don't ask for permission. Hmm. And I say that and I'm not joking. I always say, don't ask anyone for permission. You know, I always reflect on the fact being who I am, looking how I look in different contexts and also especially in Norway I would not have done anything if I waited for permission. Okay. What have you had to unlearn or relearn in order to become the Shruti that you are today? I think because I had had a really tough experience with a former business partner who was a very close friend. I had to relearn how to trust. people again in a very deep way. And as I've started a new company with two other partners, I needed to be in a place finally where I felt like I could trust people and And that that's helped me evolve. I think when trust can be fractured, whether it's in business or whether it's in relationships, that you need to be protective of yourself for sure. You may not necessarily trust those same people again. And I think that that is fine. But I think that You don't want to necessarily go into future relationships with good people with that baggage. But I think it should, again, be something that you communicate so that they're aware of that past experience and so that you can work well together, you know. I've encountered something that I've never encountered before, which was essentially the breaking of trust with someone who I thought was a really close friend. And, you know, this is someone who had the code to our house, helped us with our dog, who, you know, I lent clothes to when she needed it, helped her with work. And in the same way, I would say that, you know, it was a reciprocal friendship too. And then she created some harm in my family dynamic in a way that really stunned me. And my reaction to that at first was creating some distance. Then it manifested into just, you know, being, you know, distant in person, which could come across as cold. But I realized that that is also a way of self-preservation because I'd say that the cornerstone of any friendship is trust and any relationship is trust. Loyalty is a bonus, right? But when those things are compromised, it's really hard to be yourself in those situations. And especially when I'm in spaces with family, I only want to be myself. I don't want to show up with a boundary or a barrier, but I've had to figure out how to feel safe when I've been harmed, when that person doesn't necessarily understand what they've done But this is not somebody that I necessarily can trust again. But what I can grow towards is figure out how to be for myself and then how to make sure that the relationships that matter to me. are preserved and that those people are reminded that, you know, this is what I care about. But that was something that really caught me off guard that I was never prepared for. I can work on any movie set. I can be in the room with all sorts of people. I can encounter anything. But when suddenly I felt like a relationship that mattered to me was upturned in my own family. I had to figure out what to do and I didn't have the answers for it because I'd never experienced it before. And so that's kind of been a more recent experience that is personal that I've had to keep learning from and know how to draw the boundaries that protect me, but hopefully make it tolerable to be in those spaces. Thanks for sharing that. What are you still becoming? my gosh, I feel like every day I'm something more, someday something less, depending on what it is, you know, when provoked. I think I just try and constantly figure out how to be honest with myself so that I can be honest with everyone around me who I care about. I really love that. Sometimes something more, sometimes something less. Yeah, that is so spot on. not always going to be the best version of yourself. There are days you're just like, I'm uh shit today. And then you have to say, why? And where is that coming from? I can be, I was very, very temperamental and prickly with my husband last week. And when I was having some conversations with friends, what they were also helping me realize is that it was a reaction to my death in the family. It was manifesting in certain way. And I was trying to figure out why am I being so unpleasant And you do that to a lot of the people you love is that that processing of grief can come out in sometimes a form of rage, because you're just mad that my cousin just died. My first cousin just died from ALS after having it for three years and had been incredibly healthy before. And this was before he turned 29. And so I was taking it out in a different way. So, yeah. I think sometimes we don't even realize that we're doing it, you know, until somebody points it out when you experience someone you're close to who passes, kind of are, you naturally are doing a different, you know, an audit that is like life's too short. My choices have to be additive. The people in my life have to be, you know, filling me. I have to fill them too. I'm not going to just be a taker I can't just do that because that's just. simply narcissism. Some people are totally fine with it. Totally fine with it. But I think you just have to factor in like your self protection and your capacity. you know, I have a pretty thick skin, about these things. when it creates harm is when I'm like, okay, I have to address the thing, you know? Otherwise, like, no, I don't try, I try not to get bogged down. yeah. I love that view. I love that frame. I try to practice the same. often think other people's opinion of me is not my business. As long as I know that I've done right by a situation, because if I haven't, will take responsibility. I will address it. I will do better. But otherwise, people are going to talk and it's not my problem. It's their problem. And I'm not going to deal with it or even give it as much as I can head space. What are you aspiring to in your personal life? In my personal life... I really want to be a wonderful, loving partner, daughter, sister, cousin, niece, a friend, a colleague. Even though you're talking about personal, I think I work in an industry where you can't help but be friends with the people you work with, you're in the trenches with. And so... I aspire to kind of approach things in a way that's clear headed in the midst of so much noise and that I can be there for the people that I love in the way that I need to be there for them. I have to say about you every time I meet you. This is just the I think anyone who's ever asked me about you I just say you're so joyful You just radiate so much joy You're so happy you're so open and that is what I collect from you, you know, like everything just like she's always just a joy to see in a room you have that personality and there's something that bubbles I just wanted to say that as well. So mean, look, think that that, you know, I've encountered like real tragedy in my life in ways, you know, I've talked about my cousin's passing, which was, you know, very hard. I mean, when I was 13, some of my best friends were murdered. I could have possibly had a different type of framework, but, I think it's a combination of, obviously my own family coming from a place of, striving for good. mean, families, chaos. Don't get me wrong. You know, in the best way possible, Indian family, you know, like. we have such deep love for each other. We can get into like, you know, a very silly argument that can escalate so fast but we will always recover from it. We will always recover from it. So I think it's a combination of those things. and like the world is so hard that it's very easy to feel hopeless, and you're like, what's the point? I think I kind of always think about possibility, the possibility of something, the what if. the why not, the let's say yes. Coming from that place just I think is, coming from a place of joy is incredibly enriching, but even with my resistance revival chorus, which is a chorus I co-founded right after the first Trump election with my friends who organized that women's march that year, I would say that we came together in song and activism. because Harry Belafonte, who my co-founders work closely with, had said, when the movement is strong, the music is strong. But one of the other, I'd say, tenets for us, which is by the poet Toy Derricotte, is that joy is an act of resistance. And I think, how are you showing up in this life, in this moment, in the work, in personal spaces? You know, if you show up joyfully to the right people, they're going to receive it. And to the right people who are coming from a negative space, let that joy, kind of hit up against them. And either they will just kind of create a wall or they can let it wash over themselves and they can evolve too. absolutely too short. That's really what it comes down to. Yeah, absolutely. Joy is resistance. And I like to also say hope is a strategy. You know, it's a strategy. ah What? resistance and hope is a strategy. I because for me just this year and everything that happens in the world and all we have to endure as you say It's easy to be hopeless. It's easy to give up. It's easy to not try I'm just like I have to keep trying because it is a strategy. It's how I move forward, you know What are you aspiring to in your personal professional life I think I have a wonderful range of projects as a writer, director, as a producer. And I just want to see all of those things to fruition. And I love to keep working with the same people. I think the ongoing collaboration, as long as it remains healthy and you're able to show up together and do things together. I want those relationships to continue. that. And finally, if you could speak to the young person you once were, what would you want her to know? And who do you hope she becomes for the future that lies ahead? what I would say to Shruti at 11, 21, 31, even 41, and I'm 43, would be really different. So let me just, I don't know why I'm picking. You But let me just see quickly what I would say to all those different decades. To 11 year old Shruti would say. Good job for reading all of those books. I would say those books were enriching. To shoot the 21, which is just around when I was working on set in Bombay and learning film for the first time, I would say show up to work with this openness and passion and while the industry will be hard and tough and people will be cruel and you should protect yourself and you will figure out how to protect yourself, but never lose that sense of wonder. I would say to shoot the at 31. And at that point I had finished two master's degrees, graduated from NYU, was starting to work in film, but I was, I had a job at MTV focusing on developing content for the South Asian market. And eventually I would then go to Vogue or to Conde Nast and write 73 questions. And I was kind of inhabiting these spaces, at least on the, work side of working in short form and long form. And I would just say, you have never been boxable and don't let anyone put you in that box, but make sure you know how to keep sustaining yourself because you don't get to make those choices when you are feeling the pinch of financial strain. So be conscious of how to manage the finances to also allow for you to do what you want to do. At that point, I was also probably making very many, terrible dating choices. And I would tell 31-year-old Shruti, don't worry, it's gonna be fine. You will find your person when you're ready. And then 41-year-old Shruti, I would say you... need to take care of your body more and that you were incredibly active and that you should also focus on the physical self being a priority and that your body is changing and you may not have taken care of it in quite the same way and it's never too late to do that. So these are the different like younger versions of myself. And all of those things get to possibly apply at all of those ages too. I love that. really love that. I get to see like four decades, right, of advice. And the last bit was the future that lies ahead. What do you hope you become? For the future that lies ahead, and that future can be in a few hours, it can be in a day, it can be many years. I love how analytical you are, but please go on. Yeah, yeah, I'm like, you're, think at every moment you're just like a future version of the self you were moments ago. And I think that. You know, I just hope I never lose my sense of wonder and joy and hope because I use it as such a guidepost in things that I love or in moments of challenge, that that is my, you know, my, my north star, my guiding light. Of course it stems from the energy of friends, but I also do think it comes from a certain craving within. Thank you so much for sharing. Really enjoyed this conversation. Yeah. Thank you for spending time with us on Overnight Wisdom. If this conversation moved you, inspired you, or made you pause, please like, leave a comment, or share it with someone who needs to hear it. You can follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, and if you're feeling generous, a rating, or review, goes a long way in helping others find us too. Until next time, stay curious, stay tender, and may the wisdom you need find you exactly when you're ready.