Focus Your Power. Silence the Noise with Kubbra Sait.

Kubbra Sait on Identity, Power & Writing Yourself Whole

What happens when you stop contorting yourself to fit into the world—and instead begin to build a life that fits you?

In this deeply honest conversation, actor and author Kubbra Sait joins Chisom to reflect on her journey toward identity clarity—from surviving childhood trauma to leaving corporate life and stepping into her power as a storyteller.

Together, they unpack the cost of performance, the weight of being misunderstood, and the radical act of claiming joy without apology. Kubbra speaks candidly about rewriting her own narrative, shedding labels that no longer serve her, and how she came to see softness as strength.

This episode is a meditation on what it means to know yourself—and choose yourself—again and again.

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Kubbra Sait is an award-winning actor, live host, and author. From global shows like Sacred Games and Foundation to live stages across the world, she is known for her ability to connect deeply with audiences through storytelling and conversation.

Kubbra's Book: https://www.amazon.com/Open-Book-Not-Quite-Memoir-ebook/dp/B0B1FNSKLC

Transcript

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What does it take to get clear on who you are, beyond the roles, titles, and expectations? I'm Chisom Udeze your host on Overnight Wisdom. in this episode, I speak with actor and author, Kubbra Sait about the power of identity clarity. We unpack how to stop living on autopilot, make brave personal choices, And build a life rooted in your truth, not someone else's script. If you're navigating change, or craving more alignment, this conversation will meet you where you are. Let's begin. hi, Kubbra. Welcome to Overnight Wisdom. Really excited to have you here. Thank you so much. know, I really love the name of your podcast. I almost feel like wisdom is collected over such a long period of time, but the second it settles in, it's really overnight. yeah it is it is i mean that's kind of what i was playing at as well you know or even just things like and wisdom you can think about it even like boundaries you know you might have been doing and tolerating some shit your whole life and then one day the veil lift and you're just like nah just like that i'm done and just like that and then i don't think we often reflect on like just how long it took to get to that point but it does feel like okay this is overnight but i think even with Success, right? Oftentimes people think, you came out of nowhere. You just succeeded. It's like no, I've been working my ass off for years. It seems like it's overnight, but it's Yeah. I agree with that. But sometimes, you know, like now I'm realizing that I don't owe anyone an explanation for how long I've been doing this. You know, like. I feel sometimes growth has its strange ways to kind of like leave you lingering in the past because then you turn around, look back and you go like, oh, I did that right and I did that right and I did that and I did that right. Hmm. And then it's always your present that you seem to have a problem with. You know? And you're like, my god, my past has been so great! What's the mess with the present then? Yeah, yeah. I think like, you know, that's the thing about hindsight being 20-20. Like everything is a bit clearer when you have a little bit of perspective, when you're outside of the thing, yeah? And usually it's just a matter of time. But I also liked what you said there around not owing anyone an explanation for who you are, your existence. You don't need permission, you know, for being. And I really love that. I think that's something that comes with age. That's something that also comes with time. And age, of course, differs because just some 50-year-olds that, you know, they could, But anyways. In all honesty and full disclosure, I was sitting with my therapist and my therapist said So I'm just gonna say the way she said it which is like, oh my god 30 years, prefrontal cortex is it develops Which is basically it's at the age of 30 when your prefrontal Cortex is like fully developed like do you understand that everything else before that was really A trial run. You know, we were just testing. And that's how long the testing takes before you actually start applying and living. So can we just stop being hard about everything that happened to us between 0 to 30? Like, stop it. Absolutely, I love that. mean 30 does feel somewhat clarifying and then like the years after that at least for me you know every year I'm just like my gosh I'm so much wiser whereas the previous year I'm like I'm as wise as they come you know like this is it. You know this is it nothing to learn anymore I know it all and then the next year I'm just like you know humility is a thing yeah. Just get up and leave. I love it, but I already love how we started this conversation. So I'm then gonna ask you the question, Kubbra, tell us who you are. How did you become you? you know, I think it's only recently that I started asking myself this question, which was, who am I? And I really wanted to meet myself. And I was like, ooh, that can be a great start because I seem to be quite curious about everything else around me. And I really wanted to ask myself who I am, what brought me this far. What were the incidents that shaped my life? And I think when I take a stock and barrel and an aggregate of everything that's happened to me and where I am right now. I feel very... It's very comforting to share with you that... I feel like I've accomplished a lot than what I stepped out to accomplish. I am a person who's recognizing that kindness is more than just act. I'm a young girl who's just learning how to make girlfriends, like as recently as two years ago. um I'm also somebody now who's embracing her femininity. Hmm. I'm at that stage at my life where I'm really enjoying what I do. So much so that I feel it's given me wings to create and to now recognize my voice. uh and just be, you know? But as far as the labels of society go, and my job description goes, I'm an actor, I'm an author, an anchor. I was just in a reality show as recently as like two months ago, like a month and a half ago. So it's a bunch of things, I'm a storyteller. Yeah, it's fun. I love it. I wanted to come back to what you said about embracing femininity. Can you talk a bit about that? Yeah, I think I grew up in an atmosphere where I think... I saw my mom do a lot of the work and she was the breadwinner. I did have dad, it's not like I didn't have dad, but he was dad. But I saw mom do all the work. So I saw how much of the masculinity was required if you needed to like run your life, feed your children, send them to school, educate them, have a roof over their heads. So I felt it required a lot of masculinity to do that. So I think I embraced that really early on in life. So it's only now when I am achieving things and I'm realizing that, you don't have to be so hard towards yourself and the rest of the world. So I remember sitting with my therapist and this was a long time ago. I've like seeing my therapist for a heavy load of years now. And it's really fun because I toggle between once a week to once in two weeks to once in a month. Sometimes, right? It's just frequency that is changed. Yeah. But I remember back in the day when I used to go to her every week, she used to tell me that I need you to take out an hour a week where you only get ready for no one else but yourself. Like you get ready, you wear your makeup, you wear your perfume, you wear a beautiful dress, and you don't go anywhere. You just stay. You just be. ah Even when we are learning acting, there are many rasas, like musical notes. There are these emotional meters. So one of them is the Sringa Ras, which is you orinating yourself. sitting in adoration of yourself. And I don't think I knew how to do that for a very long time. And now that I've practiced it, like I got ready for you today. Thank you. It looks simple but I know I had to go pick those right colors and be like, okay cool, feel like this is what I want to look like for overnight wisdom. Like, so let's do this, you know? But it's these little things of just being and not necessarily chasing, doing. Like, the goal is here. The goal is not there. Because every day that you do something, yourself it is a check on the list so we just don't give ourselves enough credit because we've always been told I guess play small, play tiny, don't be too humble, be humble I'm out of that shit anyway I'm proud to be woman I'm proud to be me uh yeah it's fun I love it. Thanks for sharing. I was asking about that because for me as well, I grew up in a space where my mom was, is the bread winner, and my mom is as tough as they come. It's funny when a lot of people talk about leadership and they envision a man. For me, it's always just been a woman because women have been badasses. But of course, there's this specific persona that comes with being that kind of woman. a woman who walks into the room and the men get a little bit uncomfortable. That was my mother. That is my mother. I've been reflecting a lot about this because recently I launched a new company uh that is a bit softer than my other companies that I run. For the longest time, not just now, for years, I've been struggling between. People see Chisom as this tough person who goes, to leaders on stage and say the thing. There's a strong persona that comes with being me that when people find out that I make candles and I like to cook and I like to host and I like to do soft things, you're like, yeah, I can't see that. I'm like, why? Why is it that as women, we're not allowed to be more than one thing? That you can either be soft and want the soft life or you can be strong and be tough. And there's nothing that allows us, at least that's what I think, societally, to be multiple things. And for a while as well, I struggled with how do I bridge this multiple parts of myself? Yeah? And now I just thought, you know what? Fuck it. I'm not going to try to bridge. I'm just going to be, right? And I'm not going to niche myself. Because people tell me sometimes... you have a lot of different companies, you're doing a lot of different things. Well, hello, they are all successful. That's why you know about them, one. But two, I don't have a niche. I refuse to fit myself into a box because trying to do that is also really exhausting. What you were saying about all we have is the now. What I'm also trying to do more intentionally, and I think I've been on this journey for 10 years, is having presence. All I have is the now, as you said. How can I be present in the now? Yeah, so that was why I was asking, because that resonated for me in my current state of life and presence. Yeah. wow. You know this is the beauty, right? Like you just said that you've been practicing and learning and growing in the last 10 years. I feel my journey of growth and kind of uncovering the layers has started about maybe five, six years ago. But that's the beauty of education and that's the beauty of curiosity, you know. Like there is no time limit for anybody. It can just expand itself. It can contract itself. And this thing about, you know, where you said that, I can be more than one thing. You know who can't be more than one thing? Men. I so knew you were gonna say that! I was itching to say this like from the second you said, know, like, I can do so many things. I'm like, and then find it the hardest to multitask. And on the other hand, we've been given this load of like multitasking, saying, oh, you're so good at this, but you also have to be good at this and this and this and this and only then you're a complete woman. But like the society that has been built and I'm not being a complaint monger right like oh I want to tell you how bad the society is it's not that but I'm really saying that many have been so comfortable doing one thing that they really haven't had to exercise their emotional muscles their empathy muscle their and not simultaneously it's so interesting it's not simultaneously somehow is women, we can be great sisters, can be great employees, can be great mothers, we can be great friends. And we can do all of this at the same time. And we expect her to be though. I think men are not expected. So it's like oh my gosh he does one and a half things well. Amazing. Let's celebrate him. But a woman you do ten, you mess up one. Oh my gosh. How dare you. At least that's my experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I'm not saying that that's been entirely my experience because I'll be like, oh, I did nine things. Did you see those nine? I will talk about those nine things. If you miss and you're talking just about the one thing I didn't do, I will point out the nine things that I did. I'm that guy. I'm that guy. I love it. love it. I want to talk to you about because yes, you now are a creative and you express your creativity in so many different ways. But before you were a creative, you were in the corporate space. Yeah, you had worked in Microsoft and you went from that to what you are now. So how Did that pivot happen? And also, how did you give yourself permission for that pivot? And I do want to caveat it on, you know, I know you're Indian and I'm Nigerian. And so we come from similar countries in that our parents expect us to do sensible things and have sensible careers. So how do you go from Microsoft to creativity? And how do they even manage that? I think I just pivoted back into creativity. I always wanted to be in Mumbai. I always wanted to do something in the entertainment space. But no one in my long lineage of family ever even visited Mumbai to do this, right? And there was this one long lost uncle who had come to Mumbai and he had a failed career. So he became that person who you should not become. And it was a man who failed. So then how would you succeed as a woman? But I don't think it was that much of a conversation as much as it was a conversation about me being a girl and about me being safe in an absolutely unknown world. Because I think corporate life still had a definition. You had education, you and worked in a corporate job and then you worked there till... You got promoted over and over again and then you died. Or you recovered. For me, the first challenge was to get out of my home and my hometown, is Bangalore. I grew up in the south of India. My mom chose to send me to Dubai. In her mind at that time, I guess it was safe. It was secure. It had kind of the roots and foundations of the religion I belonged to and just as a community. as a whole, I thought she felt it was a lot more safe for me to be in Dubai. And I had no context of leaving home or building anything, right? So I just had to go and figure it out one day at a time, one job at a time until I reached Microsoft. And that became a badge of honor for everybody in my family. And I was like, cool, I'm enjoying this too because my family is enjoying it. But I reckon after three years, I knew I was doing myself an odd amount of injustice. It was not fun to show up at work and feel like a robot and try to learn things that you weren't necessarily good at. Like the skill set of like typing numbers in and presenting forecasts and just crunching numbers didn't come to me naturally. So someone who enjoyed doing what I was doing would have done the same job in maybe like two hours. Well, because I was just not equipped with that kind of mental faculty or interest to do this. I would take like six hours and I would just be tired and drained all the time. Mm. And I remember I checked out in the year 2008 really and I wanted to leave. I just wanted to quit and I just wanted to come back and figure this out because I knew I had built something from ground up. And I remember it was a hard conversation, but it was a conversation that happened with mom itself. And I told my mom, said, ma, you you sent me here and you said that I'm capable to achieve anything that I want. And I feel like in the last five years I have, I've done a lot, a lot more than I thought I like achieve or see myself in. And so I think I want to go back and live the first dream that I had, which was going to Mumbai before you sent me to Dubai. And if I created something in an unknown land with strangers. Mumbai still for me is India. It's home. The only thing is that I don't know people that I can learn. But I really need to do this for me. And I guess because there was proof in the pudding, like because I had done something, I didn't need to over explain myself or... or run with any other plan A, B or C. It was just like, do you remember that this was plan A, I really want to do this now, now more than ever. And my mom was reminding me the other day, apparently on this conversation that I had with her, I told her clearly that I will not move back to Bangalore. I will move to Mumbai. So it was still me being away from home. and I'm still going to continue to do what I'm um But just with a different... sense and a different association and I will build this jigsaw puzzle with all these 1000 pieces scattered all over but I'll make them look like one unit and one picture. Hmm. She was supportive then, she's supportive now. But I think I have found my voice more and more with every single passing day, with every single passing decade. But I've been on the road now for two decades. So it's been pretty awesome. And I know that. I may not have like a profit and loss account like on paper, but I know that I two very different versions of the first decade from the second decade. So I think it was just growth and learning. I love that. How did you get into acting? Started with auditions really. I came into Mumbai and at best I thought I would be like a TV host. That's what I thought I would end up doing. I really felt I was really good at talking so that should be like the first step. But I remember when I was leaving I had a bunch of friends who came to the airport to drop me off in Dubai. Like my last hurrah, my last goodbye. And everybody was like almost mockingly saying, Oh my God, you're going to Mumbai is it? You're going to become an actor is it? Wow, famous Kubbra oh actor. I said done, now we'll go become actors. You want me to become an actor, I'll become. So I came in here, asked around and they said well the only way is to start like going into these audition rooms and most of them were like cold audition rooms like where you had like 60 people sitting outside and one by one you would go in and hold a slate and then give introductions and your phone number. and they would say maybe after two days to a week they would be like you're on the job or not on the job and I guess when I started getting my first few jobs I'm like I like. And I guess that's what acting, that's how acting happened. But I don't think I was really an actor actor. I didn't know what the bare bones or foundation of acting was. I didn't know what meant like channel a different character through your body and say lines that would mean something to them. And it didn't mean you needed to like have them affect you in a way, like I was just like, oh, I need to channel this, but no, it was a different character. And I think that first big aha moment happened to me in like 2017 and then later in 2018 when Sacred Games released and that changed everything. Right. And... Now I educate myself to be an actor. Now I attend courses to be an actor. I learn on an everyday basis. I rehearse on an everyday basis. But that's today. That wasn't when I started off. right right. You know you talk about the growth that has happened across decades and of course you you you had a live in Dubai and then you went back home but then you went back to a different part of the country where you've not previously lived in. And then you know getting this complex roles right beyond the ones you had before so. I think that is in uh in in sacred games. oh played really complex characters that, you know, kind of challenge dominant narratives. I mean, I see why. But I guess my question is, what draws you to this kind of roles? Money. I like it. Yes, I love it. No! I mean it's true, know, the lights don't keep themselves on. No, but I guess I've been really fortunate with the kind of like, yeses I've had the opportunity to say yes to, right? I think what's also happened is that I've opened myself to a new host and a new bandwagon of extremely talented and passionate people. So I think when you surround yourself with those kind of teams that allow to tell stories that are beyond themselves, and are curious and creative enough to take you on a journey. Those were the times when I didn't put the trust in me, but instead I put the trust in them. And I allowed them to take me to the shore. uh allowed them to captain the board and it was fine. uh I guess I really never went out and said you know what I want to play that character or I want to play that character. It was one character that led people's minds opening up and seeing me. So today like for example I get these labels of you're so bold you're so fierce you're so brave you're so outspoken and I like, I don't know if that's the product of the work I've done or the work is a product of who I am. like, but I also understand that I'm beautiful and I can be pretty on screen and I can be soft spoken because I have all of that in me too. So I guess someday someone will see that and not just call me bold, fierce, brave. I guess it's the combination of all the things, right? Because again, it's back to that once you're one thing, it's like, okay, you're brave, but then you can also be other things as well, right? You can be soft, can be funny, you can be whatever it is that you are in that moment. And I think that's important. I just did my first funny film, so I was really happy. Yeah, very good, very good. It's on Netflix. I love it. What is it called? It's called Son of Sardar 2. uh It's got lot of reference points to like old movies and gags and stuff like that. But it's a mad progressive film. It's insanely beautiful and it's funny. And I totally enjoyed playing this character called Bhai Bheesh. I felt it was me. Hmm. Like, it was me X10. And I loved it. It such a freeing character. And I got to play that for the first time and I was like, holy crap, I'm funny. I love it. I've made a note. I hope it's on Netflix, like globally, not just, okay, wonderful, I'll look it up. um How do you prepare yourself? You kind of alluded to it earlier, but how do you prepare yourself to be somebody else emotionally, psychologically, culturally, when you play these roles? As an actor, I have a firm belief that your script is your Bible. ah I was learning in acting class and my teacher said that when you read a script, you are not reading it as an actor, but you're reading it like a detective, like a spy. You're trying to find everything that's not said in the script and find meaning from it. Because the script is your clue box and you keep finding clues to your character and I feel like every day that I work towards becoming a better actor I work towards unlocking empathy inside me which makes me a better human being because as an actor the one thing that you cannot do is judge your character. Hmm. You need to be the advocate of your character. You need to be your character's lawyer. And I find that fascinating. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I love that as well. It's the I think there's a lot that can also carry over into real life as how do we treat ourselves? How do we think of ourselves? How do we show grace? How do we criticize? How do we judge ourselves? I think a lot of us, the world can also benefit. I think especially for people who are quite hard on themselves from how do you advocate for the version of you that you are now? Not the person you were, not the person you want to be, but for the person you are now. How'd you show up for them? I feel the person that you are right now depends on the story that you've been telling yourself about your past forever and ever and ever. What we tend to forget is that what happened to us was an incident and was left there. Hmm. But we tend to carry that one incident as the absolute truth and the purview of the rest of the world. So if I got... If I got cheated on by one person, then the whole world is going to cheat me. And I guess it's the story that you tell yourself over and over again that makes you really hard to deal with the present because you're so sure about what you know in your past that we don't tend to like just talk for a second and be like but that's still just a story I've been telling myself. So if I change the story, can I change my present? And I don't mean that you have to minimize your pain or minimize your experience or, you know, forget what happened, but it's to consciously choose to move on. from it because no matter what experience you may have gone through good, bad, ugly or great or unique. It happened then. Your idea should be able to either minimize the pain in the future with every present that happens. Or you want to realize that, oh, cool, now I have another chance to create something amazing again, all over again. Like when Sacred Games happened, it blew me out, me into this stratosphere. Everybody was like, my God, actor, there's a new actor in town, right? But Since then, I think I'm only trying to figure out how can I create another big moment like that because that moment is in my past and it was one of the greatest moments of my life. Hmm. But I can't live with that moment for the rest of my life. And I'm not talking about a sad moment. I'm talking about a happy moment. So when I don't want to live with my happy moments for the rest of my life, why is it that I want to live with the sad moments for the rest of my life? If I treat everything the same, then eventually everything shall pass. Right. I mean, there's a lot happening in my head, right? As I listen to you speak. And I do agree. I mean, I'm hearing a lot of things. I'm hearing permission to reinvent, yeah? And it's not just for, because there are some people as well who you see coasting on past glory, like I was the high school prom king or whatever. um And they just never moved forward from that. That was their crowning glory. And I love what you're saying around. we, as long as we breathe, at least that's what I'm hearing, we can continue to create, to reinvent, to become. And that's something I recognize. And at the same time, I think for me, what I was also thinking about is it's one thing to look at things like breakups, right? But I'm also thinking, you know, when you go through something like assault, right? I think trauma can be quite jarring and trauma can stay with us for a very long time. But even with that. I think one of the things I take away and I also reflect on even personally and in the spaces I occupy around mental health and wellbeing is I get to choose to live. I choose to move forward. I'm not going to necessarily let go of this part of my life or forget that it did not happen. It happened, but it doesn't get to define me. And I'm stubborn as hell because I'm just like, they win. Yeah, and God forbid that happens. So it's just, think for me, just wanted to frame it around. At least what I'm hearing you say, no matter the situation, no matter how traumatizing. And many of us need different time to process of also coming down to social programming, nature, nurture, how much therapy we've had. I love therapy. I have a therapist. I see her frequently. She's amazing. She has a lot of my money. um There's a lot of my secrets. I my secrets a lot of my money. But I mean, even with my partner, we have couples therapy. That's how much I believe in therapy. Like fix the thing before it becomes a thing, you know? So more like maintenance rather than like showing up when things are really bad. But anyways, I digress. My point being even for trauma, I think for a lot of us, we carry different levels of trauma. It's making that decision that I get to live, I get to reinvent, I get to become. I don't get to be just this version of myself that he tried to kill. for things that are quite big. Yeah, I hear you. uh I myself have been someone who's gone through abuse at a young age and went on to deal with it until I ran away from the country even, right? So for me, escaping my reality in Bangalore was less about creating an identity or a career, which was more about like running away from a monster that was in my house, you know, literally. uh So for me, for example, it was place disassociation. I had to get away from the place uh in order to like feel safe. And it's a bad time when you go through something like that. It's a horrible time because there's so much of your identity that spills into the new relationships you make, the new friends you make. You just feel gated and broken. from the very beginning. So how the hell do you bring yourself back to a place where you feel safe? And it was hard, but I also know it wasn't impossible because the strangest thing happened. I remember years later, and I'm talking about being out of like Bangalore now for 20 years. I'm talking about the last time I visited Bangalore, I'm in a traffic light with my mom and we're driving. and the person who pulled up in the car next to us was the person who abused me. And it was literally like, wow, that's my road. And we kept going straight and he went left and it was just like. It doesn't affect me anymore. It shouldn't affect you anymore. What is it that you're doing where you find peace with yourself? Like you said, you don't allow them to define you. And you don't let them get away with everything and feel emboldened because they couldn't define you. Hmm. and they see me all over the place and I need to see them once in 20 years. Mm. Mm. Yeah. again and again. And really, I think the forgiveness was for myself. It wasn't for anyone else. Who am I? Because when I need forgiveness, I ask my God. I ask the supreme power above me who's guiding me, who's protecting me. Right? So who am I to forgive anyone? If anything, I will seek forgiveness for myself because I didn't know how to... be any different in that moment of adversity. Hmm. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I love that, you know, like when I think about my own life, childhood and trauma, you know, I also reflect the same, like I don't forgive them, but I forgive myself. You know, and that's it. Because oftentimes, at least in my case, that was what I needed. Yeah. I don't get to think about them. And I get to process and I get to heal. And... One of the things that comes up for me, one of the things I heard as a child that I held onto is your mind is one battleground that you cannot afford to lose, not to anyone, not to yourself, not to your parents, not to society. Like that is the one thing you have to defend and you have to keep your mind. Yeah. And I have held onto that for so long. So no matter what happened at the end of the day, as long as I can come home and talk to myself. and see myself and hold myself? Fuck everyone else. Hmm? I agree. ah So there are two things that I say, you know, like I prepare myself for every battle that I need to go into. Like I can't go into a war where they have one button and one finger on the button with nuclear power and I can't go there with pots and pans for this fight, you know? I need to equip myself with the kind of warfare that requires. Yes. to be equal and like equal opponent in that battlefield. I could never consider my opponent to be weaker than me. I need to consider my opponent just as strong or stronger than me and then I know I'll win. It's not about like, let me go fight this. I get wiped out. So now I work towards building my artillery. I start building my army. Oh, everything's here though. Everything's here though. And it's a pretty decent process. It's rather foolproof. It's worked. Yes. Yeah. and once you know that that's the process and you can't just give up on that process because you hacked it once. You don't hack it every time. Make peace with that, life gets easier. uh The work is in the work. It's just an ongoing process. You don't do it once and it's done. Yes, it's now done. I want to talk a bit about your book called Open Book. Yes, absolutely. I picked it up, love it. um In your book, you said something and I paraphrase, this isn't a memoir, but it's the truth. reading part of your book, it felt to me that writing it was somewhat of an unravelment even for you. yeah? and i guess my question is what did that process allow you to fully understand or confront? I felt that there was comfort in the confrontation. um Up until now, I was dealing with... all my stories as I was saying, as the oppressor, as the villain, as someone bigger than me. But the second I took control of the narrative and I said, this is how it happened and this is how it shaped me. And here I am living, breathing, thriving, loving and being. that process for me. was free, was comforting. I started feeling like I didn't have to carry that weight anymore. So I climbed mountains, right? And you know that you have to carry a day bag with you. And you know that your journey for the day is going to be six hours. And you need to have everything you need in the bag. So your essentials are in the bag. You don't carry your sleeping mat and you don't carry like your dinner, you carry your lunch, you carry what you need and everything else is excess baggage. And I only learned that there are people who can assist you to do your job. There are people who can assist you with your goal and you don't have to carry all this weight. So when I put these moments down and I said that, you know what, this is the truth. And it's not anybody else's truth. This is my truth. You put it out there, I'm willing to have an open discussion with whoever, but it's done. Because once you see it, anything that has shaped you, once you see it, I find it very hard to unsee after that. If you see your strength, you see your power, you see your resilience, you see how goddamn strong you've been. You cannot unsee it. You just cannot. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. um And I, and sorry, but like literally, you know, it was like packing all that trauma and then taking the bag off my shoulders, putting it up, opening the zip. And it was bizarre because those problems were not mine alone. Those were everyone's problems. Yeah, yes, yes. And the real power in releasing those problems is actually releasing them. Yeah, that resonates a lot. You know, I often say... At least for me, how I deal with anxiety, whatever comes up, if I can say the thing, if I can name it, if I can write it down, the power it has over me reduces. Yeah. And it's literally like I'm letting down the burden that I say from like, I'm afraid that maybe that thing might not work out. It feels less stressful than when it's just in my head because I've said that thing, I've taken some power over it. And As someone who writes, I've been writing for many years and now I'm working on my first book, but unpacking a lot of trauma in that book as well. It's really been interesting to see, you know, I literally have sessions where I just write and cry, but then once I cry, I'm done. I've written it down. I've looked at the thing because I'm beginning to realize in the writing process that, my gosh, there was so much shit I had not dealt with or even acknowledged, but it was there festering. not in my conscious mind but like holding me at choke hold and writing it down and then i'm able to say that sucks i'm gonna cry about that and then i'm gonna move on and it's been such a release you know so saying the thing writing the thing down so i hear you everything you say just like it makes complete sense and it's not my shame and i think that was what so what when you said that in terms of like it's not mine alone, it's not my experience alone. And one of the things that become clearer to me is like, this is not my shame to carry. Yeah. So I really appreciate that. And I really love that also about just reading your book where there was that sense of release. Like I unravel, I release, I move on. I really love that. thank you. Thank you for sharing that with me because yeah, that's how I felt and all the best to your book. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, let's come back to you. I want to ask you, you know, you, can imagine when you blew up, now the public cares about your life. They want to pick at everything. Is there a moment or was there a moment where you felt misunderstood by the public and how did you navigate that tension? Or did you never have that? I think I was misunderstood for a very long time as a child and through adolescence. Then when I became an adult, I just couldn't care enough about you misunderstanding me. Mmm. really like and I know that I probably even operated from a place of arrogance at that point because I also felt that it was my way of protecting myself so don't give me unwarranted advice if I didn't ask you for it like period and if you don't understand me it's cool I don't need to be understood and that's Hmm. But I'm that person who would look at every small win. And that kind of clears the air and clears the doubt. Because I feel that the more you're trying to prove to people that you're right, the more time you're wasting. So why don't we do this? You continue to be misunderstanding me. Continue doing it. It's fine. It's no problem. And I'll continue doing my thing. It's just easier for me to invest energies where I know they work rather than me putting my energies into you. One, who doesn't matter. And two, Why am I taking advice from you? Because I'm the one who's creating and you are stagnant and exactly where you are. So don't ask someone who's never created anything how to create. Don't ask someone to tell you a joke when you know they're not funny. you know, like it's fine. Yeah. And do you add value to the way I think and grow? You're welcome in my life. But if this is just about you projecting, ah then it's okay. I'm fine. Please go ahead. Enjoy. I that sounds to me, because I was just thinking as listening to you answer that question now, I think this is also like a mini class in mental health for people as well. Just like how do you protect yourself? How do you protect your bandwidth? put boundaries in place to make sure that you're not affected by the outside. I do want to ask you about power. It seems to me that you are somebody who is acutely aware of the power that they have, I think in all the ways. It's something you said earlier, which I love. I was having a conversation with my friend earlier a couple of weeks ago, and they had this beautiful person from uh Tunisia, and then there's me, and we're both thinking, say, listen, we're beautiful people. like, we're smart as hell, but we also know we work in small room, we look good, yeah? I think there's something in owning that, you know, not like, I would never be that person, somebody says, oh my gosh, you're like, what? No, no, no, I absolutely know. Thank you very much for stating the obvious, but you know, as humble as possible, of course. So my question to you is, I like, even just in this conversation, just like the thread I see in, you have an awareness of who you are. in space, in work, in society, as a person, identity-wise. You know, what does power mean to you? And how do you, if you do, think of, negotiate, and leverage your power? Ooh, heavy, think power is anything that gives you the ability to change. I look at power as force I look at power as something substantial enough to change something as big as mountains and rocks. That's power. And when you do something constantly and consistently, you can result that power in a subsequent change. Hmm. right? I feel that power is best used when it's the change for yourself. Hmm. Because my power dilutes when I try to change the rest of the world. Right. but my power increases when it's focused. I am the piece of stone that is going to be sculpted into this beautiful structure, in this beautiful sculpture, right? It's me. Can I use all the power on this beautiful thing? I am my purpose. I am this person who is going to see myself from the beginning of life to the end of it. Right? And imagine when you realize you have that power and then you start wasting it on changing other people. I feel it's just a gross waste of time to do that. How do I use it in negotiations? I use it in a fearless way. I don't feel if I lose something, I'm not going to get some. It's only when I lose something can I get some. Mm-hmm. So when, and I have to teach myself and train myself and be kind to myself on all the days that I'm fearful of doing something new. But that's really the conversation I need to have with myself. and to be active in this thought and to be active in this power, I do a lot of difficult things. I do a lot of difficult things. I'm not afraid of challenges. I climb mountains. I love my adventure. I love breaking down everything that I have earned and gathered for myself for the basics and cutting myself away from technology and just going into hibernation and a focused activity that allows me to think of nothing else but that activity. And I keep pushing myself in that direction. And when you starve yourself from all the bloody problems in the world, you realize that you have so much more energy to create and you have so much more energy to be inspired. Like I was listening to this thing where Someone was talking about Steve Jobs and he said that Steve Jobs had this 70-30 rule, which is get 30 % done because 70 % is noise. And I feel when you don't give time to reset yourself and reboot yourself, you will constantly be stuck in the noise. So was the second you release yourself from the noise, stillness allows you to be inspired. And I feel that's how I reclaim my power back. Because you will never understand what fearlessness is until you do something that scares the shit out of Yes, that is correct. Oh. Ten on ten! That is Yeah, thanks for sharing. It's one of the questions I tend to ask people because for me, it's something that I've also had to reclaim. This idea that I want power and that power is not a specific thing externally, it's for myself. I think in many ways I've always had that power. I just have to articulate it. to myself, my ability to reset. So you're talking about going hiking, giving time for yourself. For me, every morning just having that moment to reflect and meditate and recenter and quiet the noise. There's so much that happens in my work, in my business, in my relationships, just based on that 10 minutes in the morning or 15 minutes in the morning where I'm just like, no, we're not doing that. Or yes, we're absolutely doing that because I've just given myself. silence and presence to go, Chisom what do you want? What does your heart want? Yeah. No. Hmm. such a glorious day to see, such a glorious way to see the world every day. All right, because I ground myself in the morning to tell myself that that was yesterday. And today is my power. Why the hell do we charge our phones every 20 minutes? Yeah, we need to give it power. I love it. It's so simple sometimes. Like we pay more attention to things than we pay to ourselves. And I don't understand why would we do this kind of a disservice to ourselves if we were just kinder to ourselves. I'm sure the world would be a lot easier. Absolutely. Absolutely. I have a quick question about your art, and then I have a fire round. um So, in, you do different things, cinema, TV, you host, you're an uncle, you write. How, what have you learned about yourself just through the different medium, you know, the different parts of you that have to show up in each realm? I felt that. Every single medium gives you a different learning, right? ah for the longest time for example, working as an actor. I also believed somewhere deep down inside me that I can execute to perfection. So it doesn't have to be mine, it doesn't have to be my idea, but it can just be... what someone else has written or thought of. But if I'm at the helm of executing it, I'll do it to the best of my ability. um through stage, I felt that I was the truest, the most unapologetic version of me. Hmm. as an author. just felt I was not looking at my life or the rest of the world with one lens. But instead, I was looking at it from the view of a kaleidoscope. Like, wow, there could be so many ways to look at one thing. So I feel like everything that you do new, like maybe one day I'll learn how to do magic. I think it's really tough, but you know what I mean? But like, there are different things that unlock with different parts of your creativity in your mind. Because yeah, they are all a big part of like this big space called the entertainment space. But when you do different things, they unlock different parts of you. They're never the same thing. No two days in an artist's life is ever the same. To recognize how unique that is, is your power, And I really enjoy doing that. So I feel like why should I limit myself based on the label that now you recognize me? You only went to 10th standard or 10th grade, right? Hmm. But I want to go to college and I want to graduate and I want to do my masters and I want to do a PhD in whatever the hell I'm doing, right? So if you think I'm a good anchor, I don't have to stop myself there. I can continue to do other things and I can continue to... And who decides if I'm winning or losing? Not you for sure. It's always me. And I guess... That becomes easier to do when you start having a community around you. When you have, and you realize, and I think I've realized that the more I was growing, the more similar mindsets I was attracted. When I was not growing, I was attracting the same stagnancy. So where you are is the kind of people you will meet. And where you are is where you will meet people who will inspire you to do something else. And you don't have to be in the same, you know, geographical location. I could log into overnight wisdom and learn something that would unlock something in my mind. Like there is this thing that I've been listening to for years called the Moth Radio, which is just stories, stories of love, stories of grief, stories of accomplishments, stories of failure. And these are real stories. That inspired me to become a storyteller, allowed me to take one big incident and pack it into five minutes and make it autobiographical. Done. Finished. So I feel like different mediums allow you to explore different parts of you and just be open to that exploration. uh A through line listening to you speak is that ongoing sense of reinvention and not needing permission for that to happen. Now, as you reinvent, and of course, you're still part of all these different parts, is there a part of you that stays the same even as you evolve? So what keeps you recognizably you? stay childlike for life. I love it. Please do not feel embarrassed to be stupid. There is so much power in stupidity. There is so much power in saying I don't know. You do not have to be the smartest person in the room and if you are the smartest person in the room, then you're probably in the wrong room. I think this is for the evolved though, because I think a lot of people and a lot of leaders don't understand this. Like, get the smart people in the room, get the hell out of your way, let them do the work. And it's also important to know you don't know what you don't know and there's no shame in that. And it's something you've said a few times now, the people you surround yourself with and what keeps coming up for me is you're an average of the sum of people you hang out with. Essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Because you have the world to mirror you all the time, which is why I go way into nature, right? Because nature is indeed the most humbling experience. mean, trees, river, water, mountains, been standing there for centuries. Now that is wisdom. They didn't come overnight. You went to spend one night with them. Mm-hmm. and you got overnight wisdom. So don't be... bigger than nature, bigger than the universe. It's like every time I climb a mountain and I stand on top of the mountain is when I look around and I go like, oh Lord, there are more mountains that have appeared. is no limit to this stuff. And that's what makes you realize how limitless you are. Yeah, I love that. I think we are just too scared of something that's unfamiliar, but that's also because we've been trained somehow to play small. Absolutely. No one tells one river you are smaller than that river. Wow, there's still a river. I can still swim in that river. I didn't understand going with the flow until I sat in front of a river. And this happened to me like... one and a half years ago. And I think I'm in flow state, right? Like, I believe I'm doing just fine. But I find myself stuck. And then I find a wise person who says, just go with the flow. And I don't understand until I saw the river flow. and it doesn't stop and it doesn't go like my god big stick in my way it takes stick and throws it to the side and continues to flow Absolutely. Absolutely. Never happens. Don Robb, Boulder, Cannot Fall. Yeah, I love it. I love that. Be like water. Like nothing stops it. It will find a way. And also I think what you what I'm hearing from you as well, I'm also thinking for myself, I think as a reminder and affirmation and I think for others as well who are listening is do not stop yourself from flowing because somebody else is trying to impede or put their own limitations on you. And sometimes that somebody else can also be you. Yeah. Like it's not just because oftentimes we externalize the people that hold us back. Like it's that thing that happened to me, it's that person. It's also important to look at yourself in the mirror and go, yo, Chisun, where am I holding myself back? yeah, you know, I remember seeing this um when you're driving your car and you see a sign that says, oh, go slow, there are speed bumps ahead. You don't stop the car when you see a warning sign. Neither do you stop when you see the speed bumps ahead of you. You lower your speed, you go over them gently, as gently as you can. and then you hit the highway again and you're up and running but no one stops in life for speed breakers so why do we stop in life when we have small problems what we need to do then is slow the hell down be gentle be kind and go over them and then hit the road when the road is free but it's really that I know it's sometimes harder to recognize when you're in it, but then it's a muscle you train. It's a muscle you train. It's a muscle that you pay attention to. And God knows you will make like a million other mistakes along the way. And that is fine too. But just don't stop because stagnation is going to be the end of it all. Not the trying, not the failing. The stagnation is what's going to be the heart. analogy. I really like that analogy. And it's the thing about uh failing is proof that I'm trying. Right? Because if you're not trying, you're not failing. Nothing is happening. Everything is just stagnant. So I really love that. Kubbra, what is a book that changed the way you think or the way you see life? I have a few books that have changed my life. ah I'm so terrible at remembering names. So bizarre, I remember like, you know, some of the first books I read. Alchemist changed my life. ah The Secret changed my life. I swear to God, I really do find a parking when I get out of my house now. I love it. Which is quite hard in Mumbai I can imagine. No, have, sorry, Chisom I'm gonna break this to you, but I do have a driver. I have someone to drive me around. It's not really a problem I need to deal with now, but I do from the parking when I go driving, so I get that. But I'm reading this book right now, which is really funny and pretty awesome. It's called Maybe You Should Talk to Someone. Mmm, okay. is a really really really funny book because this book is about a therapist finding a therapist because she's going through a breakup and the funny thing is the therapist thinks who's gone to the therapist for help is looking around going like oh gosh I know how this works You out of the patterns that you think you know, you know? So this is a really funny book I'm reading. ah I'm on my way to entrepreneurship. So this is another book that I'm reading, which is The Hot Thing. The hard things about the hard things. Really good book. really good book reading this right now. Can you share what you're creating? uh I'm writing my first stand-up piece. I'm my stand-up special. Yeah. And when this goes out, it's going to be the first public announcement. my gosh, that's exciting. Okay. Yeah. And you are going to perform it live. Writing, performing. my gosh, I love it. Is there like a timeline in mind? Yeah, November 30th, 2026, we should film it. Amazing, okay. Yeah, I love it. I was just going to say, I hope your stand-up special is going to be on Netflix so we can also watch it. We speak it into existence. we just speak it into existence. There's a goal. Do you know what it's going to be called? You speak the same language? What is going on? my gosh, yeah, I think we have a lot in common. I think we think in a lot of similar ways. Yeah. but this has just been an absolute breeze, by the way. This has been great. you. oh Question, so fire around. What have you had to unlearn or learn or relearn to be the person you are today? Stop beating yourself up for the mistakes. Hmm. is something that I've had to unlearn. People pleasing is something that I had to just stop doing. I was that person who would have the loudest laugh in the room, not because the joke was funny, but because I would be heard. Hmm. That's not a nice place. I've been that person and I meet even today a lot of people who do that. And it's so transparent for me because I'm like... It must be so lonely inside sometimes. Yeah. So that's something that I... Thanks for sharing. was just sharing yesterday with someone about how sometimes when you go to an event and there's a performance and it's great and everyone stands up to clap and you're just like, I don't want to stand up. But then you feel that pressure to stand up. I'm that person who sits down. I'm going to clap as loud as I can, but it's just like, I want to sit down because I don't want the peer pressure of having to. m thing and that's a problem it's like when you start this process of like self-realization you know I I'm just like I don't feel like standing up this is wonderful I'm gonna clap you know and yeah Rebbe, better stand up at my stand up, please. Of course, of course, absolutely. I'll be right in front. I mean, I guess if I were like sitting maybe right in front, I might feel more pressure, but I'm like, it's okay. But no, no, no. mean, but I often reflect on that because sometimes when you start this process of self knowing yourself, you're just like, does this feel like something I want to do? At least for me, it's like, I don't know that I want to do this right now. Right now I want to sit down and clap loudly, you know? But yeah, I mean. Maybe that's rude in some settings where you should get up and clap, but anyways, I digress. What are you still becoming? I'm going to learn how to just sit and not just stand up because everyone else is like... Yeah. I think for me, there's something very freeing about not acting or performing. If I want to stand up, I can be the only one standing up sometimes. You know, like I'm there, I'm standing, I'm listening. I don't wait for anybody else to stand up for me to do it. Yeah. So that's the line I try to draw for myself. Like I cannot perform myself. I just get to be. But of course, like it's, it's some people like that, some people don't, but honestly, I don't care. Yeah. I think the other thing that I unlearned was making excuses for my bad behavior. Hmm. like it was easy for me to say oh I'm just a short tempered person I'm just an angry person no I had to change that about me um and also understand that I am actually not just an angry person there is something that's bothering me so I would I would start speaking about The thing that's bothering me, not when it has surpassed the botheration, but at the beginning of it, which has helped me become less angry from opposite point of view. But I don't think I was really an angry person. But when I was, it was very easy for me to say, oh, I'm Leo, so I'm angry. I am woman who has worked too hard so I'm angry. Someone didn't listen to me so I'm angry. being angry is in my control so how do I take control of that? think that's become something. Like literally I can now be like I need two minutes and walk out. Yes. and then come back and be like, dude, do you understand we're on the same team? Instead of like going on a match with someone, which I think has served me a lot. I really love that. That's really empowering. I love the address that thing as it's happening because when you let it build up, then it balls over and then it's like, look at this angry person now. Yeah, I love that. I love it. love it. What are you still becoming? I am becoming aligned. Hmm. Yeah, I'm becoming a lion. I like that. I love that. I love that. What are you aspiring to in your personal life? I finally have a beautiful partner. Yay! um which I thought was unnecessary and noise. But there is something beautiful about having a partner who holds you, understands you. And it's just available information because I am different. So to teach my partner what I want is a language I'm learning and for my partner to teach me what he wants is a learning. And it's this incredible process of discovery. So I'm curious about it and that helps me. move in directions that are really empowering. I can be in my femininity as much as possible because I know he's in his masculinity when I'm with him. I love that. I'm able to ask for what I want in a relationship. And it's not about putting pressure on this relationship to say like this must work or it's it. But I think I care enough to make it stick. So that's the good thing. I love it. I love it. I was just thinking there's nothing as amazing as having your shit together and meeting someone who has your shit together. doesn't mean that you both have to be perfect, but it's like you're both growing and willing to grow and willing to do the work. And even outside of romantic relationships, like even friendships, like when I meet new friends and I'm just like, my God, you've evolved. because I'm evolving, yeah? And there's not gonna be any nonsense or bullshit because we're adults, we're gonna communicate, we're gonna have problems, we're gonna deal with it. Yeah, I think there's something so remarkable about that. So I'm really happy for you to hear that you have this. And what are you aspiring to in your professional life? Now it's going to be also a lot of creation at my end. I want to do a lot of things that I could build with a team of people. So it's not just empowering me, but it's about creating a space to empower other people. You learn and recognize that success isn't yours if you're the only one who's thriving. Success is yours when you see other people around you succeed as well. So guess I'm learning that. That's interesting for me. Hmm, I love that. When all is said and done, Kubbra, how would you like to be remembered? do that? She lived, laughed, and conquered. I love the conquer yes! I love it. I hate it when people say, I know hate is a very strong word, I rarely ever use it, I don't know why I just said it right now, but I really do hate it when people say, how are you doing? I'm surviving. I'm existing. mean, if you're actually surviving, then that's okay. But I think people use survival just nonchalantly, right? Yeah. they just do understand what surviving is you being like stuck in a grand canyon for 120 days like that. That's you surviving you idiot. What's your like your health didn't show up or your car broke down how can you be surviving your boss fired you how's that surviving like stop it. I'm looking forward to your stand up. I think it's going to be hilarious. my gosh. Okay, a final question for you. If you could speak to young Kubbra the girl you once were, what would you say to her? And what do you hope she becomes for the future that lies ahead? I am the future I envisioned the little Kubbra to be. I don't even think I had this kind of vision for myself when I was younger. So if I had the opportunity to talk to my younger self... I would tell her to stand up to the oppressor. I would tell her to stand up for what she thought is right. For ask for what she wants. To ask for what she needs. Mm. to be unafraid to laugh unapologetically. and to never let the child in her die. That's good. Yeah, that's good. that's beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Kubbra, this has been amazing. I feel like I know you. I feel like I've known you for a long time, just in general, in how we're able to engage. Thank you for being you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for sharing so honestly. Thank you for making time for this. And yeah, I really appreciate you. Of course. that you do this incredible, um I wouldn't call it a job, but you've taken this up as a responsibility to like spread the good word, spread the hard word, because sometimes this conversation is the hardest and I am grateful and thankful to you for taking this responsibility and ensuring it reaches people. And to do it with this sense of lightness, like when I interact with you, I sense this lightness in you, which is beautiful. And I love to someone who goes to a therapist, Otherwise, I'm this concept like it's mine. Yeah, no, I therapy is life. I mean, I don't even trust a therapist that doesn't have a therapist, to be honest. Like, my therapist better have a therapist. Yeah. That's, I'm just like, yeah. No, but thank you. This has been lovely. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thanks for listening to Overnight Wisdom. Here's your one takeaway. Notice this week when you're performing instead of leading, when you're shape shifting instead of being authentic, that awareness is where identity clarity begins. new episodes every Wednesday. subscribe and if this resonated share it with someone who needs to hear it. I'm Chisom thank you for being here.