Letters to Zachary: A Father's Journey Through Grief and Love with Jason Tuttle

In this powerful and heartfelt conversation, I speak with Jason Tuttle, a devoted father who spent 15 years as the primary caregiver to his medically complex son, Zachary. After Zachary’s passing in 2020, Jason found himself navigating unimaginable grief—and discovered that writing letters to his son became a path toward healing.

In this episode, Jason shares candid reflections on fatherhood, caregiving, and the emotional toll of losing a child. He opens up about what it means to grieve as a man in a culture that discourages male vulnerability, and how his writing evolved into a growing community and platform known as Letters to Zachary. We also talk about the therapeutic coloring book he created to help families discuss loss with children, and the profound impact of connection, even through strangers on the internet.

This conversation is a must-listen for anyone who has experienced grief, or loves someone who has. Jason’s wisdom, strength, and vulnerability will stay with you long after the episode ends.

Learn more about Jason’s work at: letterstozachary.com

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Pathways!

If today’s conversation resonated with you, I invite you to explore more at www.cantontherapy.com, where you’ll find resources, upcoming events, and ways to connect.

You can also follow my journey and stay inspired on Instagram @ChrisAnneCoviello and join our growing community on Facebook at  Chris Anne Coviello-The Healing Space-Canton Therapy

Until next time, 

May your path be grounded, heart-led, and full of light.

Peace,

Chris Anne

P.S. If you want to support my Podcast you can "Buy me a coffee" at

 https://buymeacoffee.com/chrisanne

Transcript

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Jason Tuttle: Come on!

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Jason Tuttle: Hello!

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Chris Anne Coviello: Hello!

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Jason Tuttle: I'm.

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Chris Anne Coviello: See you.

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Jason Tuttle: How are you today.

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Chris Anne Coviello: I'm doing well, how about you?

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Jason Tuttle: I'm well, I'm towards the end of the school year for me, so it's it's wild where I am.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yes, yes. Getting end of school.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Last minute things done.

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Jason Tuttle: -

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Chris Anne Coviello: I don't know how that is.

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Jason Tuttle: I saw that you're from. I saw that you're from Canton, Georgia. I'm on the other side of Atlanta.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Oh, really, that's.

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Jason Tuttle: I'm in Cowete County. I'm I'm in Noonan.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Oh, wow, okay, okay, wow. I didn't realize we were so close.

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Chris Anne Coviello: It's a small world. Gosh, well, thank you so much for for joining me on here today to share your story a little bit

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Chris Anne Coviello: and explore a little bit of your pathway, and how you got to where you are today.

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Jason Tuttle: Okay.

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Chris Anne Coviello: So you know, I'd love to maybe just start by having you share. You know who Zachary was.

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Jason Tuttle: Okay.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Not just in terms of like his medical needs, but his personality, spirit, and what made him unique for you.

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Jason Tuttle: Okay. Excuse me, my son, despite all of his medical issues, was a very

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Jason Tuttle: laid back, happy child. Not a whole lot really bothered him.

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Jason Tuttle: and throughout his life, with his medical stuff there was a lot of pretty difficult situations that he went through, and he always pretty much had a smile on his face when he, when it was going on, very rarely was he ever upset, and even with some of the daily things I had to do. He just nothing really bothered him which is, which is

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Jason Tuttle: different than me by a long shot.

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Jason Tuttle: He was very much a people person. He he met no strangers. His thing was

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Jason Tuttle: he. He loved giving people hugs. He was definitely a ladies man, in fact, he had a hierarchy of women, meaning it was blonde haired, brown haired brunette, black, and then Redhead in that order.

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Jason Tuttle: Yes, he was very much, you know. We would go out to one of his special needs functions. In fact, if you're in Atlanta, you probably know Bert's big adventure

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Jason Tuttle: through Q. 100.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Oh, it sounds familiar.

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Jason Tuttle: That's the one where the radio station awards 12 families a year

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Jason Tuttle: for kids with chronic and terminal illnesses. And to go down to Disney. You know everything is provided for. Nothing is said. No to. And he he actually won that trip in 2013.

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Jason Tuttle: So one of the co-hosts of the Burt show was there, Kristen, and she's got long blonde hair, and you can see every picture they did. They took with him and her. He was just longingly looking in into her eyes, and I told her several times I said, I wish you all the best with your husband, and should anything ever happen. He's waiting in line.

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Jason Tuttle: and so she would always get a kick out of that. But you know he

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Jason Tuttle: he he loved watching sports. He was big into special Olympics specifically bowling. He seemed to really enjoy that when we did it he really liked hippotherapy, which is horseback riding therapy. He seemed to really enjoy that. But yeah, overall, he was a really just laid back, well-rounded kid that unfortunately was dealt a medically hard life with the cards that he got.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yeah.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Can you share a little bit of what his medical needs were?

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Jason Tuttle: I can. It depends on how much time we've got. So he

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Jason Tuttle: a little bit of the back story was

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Jason Tuttle: up until the week. 20 appointment, which everybody knows is where you find out the sex of the child

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Jason Tuttle: when you've got someone pregnant. We had no reason to believe that there were going to be any issues period. We had nobody in our family that we knew that had any real significant issues other than

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Jason Tuttle: you know, self-induced like an alcoholism, that kind of thing. But it was at the week 20 appointment that they they found an issue. They and they needed to know the sex of the child, because at that time

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Jason Tuttle: they knew that his rare condition was rare in boys. But it's even rarer in girls, and so they really needed to know the sex of the child, but long story short, with that he was born with a rare condition called Eagle Barrett Syndrome. It's 1 in 40,000 births at least at the time he was born.

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Jason Tuttle: The easiest way to explain it without getting long and drawn out is.

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Jason Tuttle: he was born without any core abdominal muscles, none so like where you and I have the front Abs, and the side Abs. That kind of stuff. He had none of that like I could literally lay him on the floor, and from the outside

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Jason Tuttle: I could literally touch his large intestine, his small intestine. I could show you where stomach was. His. Kidneys were like you could see the whole outline of his whole midsection right there, and the only thing keeping his insides from the outside world where the was the skin and kind of the white fascia that holds the skin together.

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Jason Tuttle: so there was that part. That's 1 of the major issues of it. Another major issue is the fact that he was born with an abnormally large bladder. But he didn't always get the sensation to go to the bathroom. So for the 1st 5 or 6 years of his life I had to cath him every 4 h, so that he could

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Jason Tuttle: drain his bladder, because otherwise he would either get distended or the way you get urinary tract infection is the fact in in that fluid you've got sediment, and it's that sediment.

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Jason Tuttle: That kind of sits there, and that's what infects things, you know, in the urological tract. So if I didn't, if I didn't cath him every 4 h. He was very susceptible to urinary tract infections. The other big thing is.

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Jason Tuttle: he had a normal lung capacity, but because he like you and I, because we've got the abdominal muscles. When we get a respiratory related virus, we have kind of that foundation that we can build pressure on to like cough the crud out.

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Jason Tuttle: He couldn't always do that, so if I didn't catch it fast enough. I knew ultimately we were going to end up in the hospital

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Jason Tuttle: after about the 1st year or 2 of his life, like I'm in his room on the other side, where you can't see. I used to have a wall of respiratory machinery that I would use. Every there was a specific sound I heard when I heard it. I knew I would go through kind of my medical protocol what I would do, and how I would do it to

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Jason Tuttle: try to help help him along, to not have him be in the hospital, although ultimately he ended up in the hospital. So for the 1st 5 or 6 years of his life, we were in and out of an Icu at Scottish rite in North Atlanta every 6 months. For the 1st 6 years of his life.

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Jason Tuttle: It was pretty consistent.

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Jason Tuttle: Now. That is just the Eagle Barrett Syndrome. He's got 4 other issues that are not related to each other. It just

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Jason Tuttle: happened to happen. He had severe developmental delays, meaning when he, the when he passed.

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Jason Tuttle: even though he was 15 years old, he functioned about 7 or 8 years old.

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Jason Tuttle: He was epileptic, he had 2 different kinds of seizures. He was nonverbal, and he could walk with assistance, but like to walk on his own. No, he could army crawl like nobody's business, and he was essentially wheelchair bound when we were out and about just because he couldn't walk on his own. So that was everything that he was born with.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Wow! So as a a full time, caregiver for.

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Chris Anne Coviello: For all that time. How did that? How do you feel like that? Shaped you in your role, kind of as a father and as a man in that role.

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Jason Tuttle: It made me realize that when push comes to shove you'd be amazed at what you can learn to do things that there were things that I learned to do in his care, that I never thought my wildest imagination that I would have to learn how to do, like being able to give him a catheter. At 1 point, coming home from the hospital, I had to learn how to give him a feeding tube into his stomach.

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Jason Tuttle: I had to learn how to do that. I became very well versed on pulmonary issues and urological issues and neurological issues. So there was a lot of learning there that I never thought I would have to learn

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Jason Tuttle: my what my son taught me was

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Jason Tuttle: most of the time. You've just got to face life kind of head on, you know. It's tough that we get whatever we get dealt in life, but you still have to move forward. You've got to deal with it somehow, and my son was always the most laid back about it. I know. If I would have been in his position I probably wouldn't have been anything like that. So he was very.

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Jason Tuttle: He persevered a lot. He was a strong, even though he may not have looked like it. He was a very strong fighter.

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Jason Tuttle: and it made me, you know.

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Jason Tuttle: just learning and watching him go through the struggles with as much

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Jason Tuttle: resiliency and just kind of peace about it. It certainly taught me

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Jason Tuttle: a better way, or or how to be better equipped, just to deal with life when you get thrown curve balls.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yeah, you mentioned that he was nonverbal. How did you guys communicate.

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Jason Tuttle: Well, he was nonverbal in the sense of.

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Jason Tuttle: He didn't say words, but like I could say short yes and no questions, and he would either clap his hands if he wanted to do it, or he would make sounds like when he wanted to do something. And so that's kind of how we communicated

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Jason Tuttle: If I could get in a yes and no question, and I was amazed at how I could form yes and no questions for

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Jason Tuttle: everything in life. I never thought I could to where I could get it to where he could kind of understand it.

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Jason Tuttle: I got really good at reading nonverbal cues and body language like I got to the point that I could tell he was getting sick before he got sick.

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Jason Tuttle: and, in fact, there's there was one case that I took him up to the hospital.

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Jason Tuttle: I thought he was getting sick. I got him into the er the er doc goes. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna do a chest X-ray, and I'm gonna test him for I forget what it was.

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Jason Tuttle: and he says when I come back I'll let you know, and he comes back and he goes

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Jason Tuttle: the test. I forget what it was, but he was looking for a specific number, and he tested him, and he goes. If the test is over 5, we're going to keep him in the hospital to observe him. If it's below 5, we're going to send you home, give you meds if something should change, come back. And I said, Okay, he comes back later and goes. The number was 5.5

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Jason Tuttle: and he goes. I'm going to leave it up to you.

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Jason Tuttle: If you want to stay, we'll admit him. If you want to go home we'll give you meds, and you can come back up should something change. And I said, Well.

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Jason Tuttle: due to his history, I would, even if it's 1 night I would prefer being here because I'm 60 miles from that hospital. I said I'd rather be here should something arise versus me getting up in the middle of the night and having to drive a hundred miles an hour up there and go through this process again. And he was completely okay with it.

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Jason Tuttle: Well, sometime in the middle of the night they come in with the mobile X-ray. They take an X-ray again, and he comes back that morning and he goes. I don't know how you did it. And I said, How did I do what? And he goes? That number last night was 5.5, he said. When I did the X-ray the early this morning. It was 19.

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Jason Tuttle: He goes based on that X-ray versus what we're seeing now, he said. You literally brought him. In the moment the pneumonia was forming. He said you could not have brought him in any sooner than you did.

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Jason Tuttle: and I said

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Jason Tuttle: there was just this cough and this sound that I've heard before, and I knew that if I couldn't get it under control of the house I was coming up here.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Right? Yeah.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Did you feel like you had a lot of

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Chris Anne Coviello: like a deeper almost telepathic connection with him in terms of communicating and sort of.

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Jason Tuttle: Oh, definitely especially on the medical perspective. I just

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Jason Tuttle: I don't know how I did it, but I'm

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Jason Tuttle: in my personal life. I tend to be one that I'll notice kind of off the wall stuff and I'm big about noticing patterns, and it's probably part of my Adhd that I deal with, and when I notices some, when I notice whatever his pattern was, and some anything was out of the ordinary, it always

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Jason Tuttle: piqued my interest like, wait a minute, he normally is this way. Why is he this way? And that's a that's more how I was able to kind of

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Jason Tuttle: catch things, either before they happened or as they were happening.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Hmm!

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Chris Anne Coviello: So

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Chris Anne Coviello: January 28, th 2020, the day that you lost him.

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Chris Anne Coviello: And that is what led to your creation of letters to Zachary.

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Jason Tuttle: Correct.

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Chris Anne Coviello: what would you feel called to share us about that day and kind of the the birth of of your platform letters to Zachary.

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Jason Tuttle: Well, I'm okay sharing with just about all of it. that day can get very detailed. But essentially what had happened was

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Jason Tuttle: 2 days before that day. That night he threw up a little bit.

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Jason Tuttle: I was a stay at home parent at the time. I thought that because my wife was brushing his teeth at the time, and I looked at her and said, Well, maybe you went too far, and you kind of hit the gag reflex, and something just came up.

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Jason Tuttle: We didn't think much about it. We cleaned him up. We made sure he was okay. We put him in bed. He was always a great sleeper, I mean literally from the day he got home he was always a great sleeper, and that night he was up and down literally all night, which was unusual for him.

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Jason Tuttle: so I decided to keep him home the next day, which was Wednesday, no, Thursday, and I got his sister off to school, and like I told him that day, Buddy, you can take a nap. You can relax. I know you're tired. You've been up and down all night long. You've got to be exhausted. But he absolutely, for whatever reason, refused to.

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Jason Tuttle: You know we went throughout the day. He didn't want to eat and drink a whole lot, and that didn't really catch my attention, although if it had gone into another day I would have gone. Wait a minute. Something's not right. He's really not eating and drinking. I need to do something about it. So that night we put him to bed again.

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Jason Tuttle: He immediately got quiet, and my wife and I just thought, Well, he's just got to be exhausted because he's probably been up for 40 h at his age, and I thought he's just I mean his. Probably his body probably just gave out from exhaustion

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Jason Tuttle: and didn't didn't hear anything that night. We just figured he got a really good night of sleep. We figured he may have a 24 h. Virus

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Jason Tuttle: didn't think much about him.

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Jason Tuttle: I kept that Friday. I decided to keep him home. That morning I sent my daughter off to school.

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Jason Tuttle: so I come into his room, into the bed right behind me, and usually when I would come in, he'd clap and get excited and bounce in his bed because he was happy to see us, and that would be his greeting to us. Well, I came in that morning.

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Jason Tuttle: and he was not lethargic, but his eyes were open, and he, kind of just blank, stared at me, which kind of caught my attention, and I went over to the other side of the bed and pulled down his railing.

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Jason Tuttle: and I noticed he had a dark green streak coming out of his mouth.

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Jason Tuttle: and I looked at my wife, and I said, the only thing dark green in your mouth, the only thing dark green in your body that could possibly come out of your body would be bile. And why is it coming out of his mouth?

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Jason Tuttle: And so I looked at my wife, I said, something's really not right.

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Jason Tuttle: So I get them out in the living room. I do my protocol. Nothing's really changing anything. And so it was honestly a hunch I went. I'm getting them dressed. I'm taking them to the local hospital. I'll let you know. So I get them in the van, and I do, 100 miles an hour up Scottish, right on the north end of Atlanta, and I you know I park.

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Jason Tuttle: I get his chair out of the van, and I go to lift him out, and he's really floppy, lethargic. And this catches my attention like at that point I'm I'm starting to get really concerned, because I'm just like something's really not right.

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Jason Tuttle: I get up into the er and I skip the line. And before I can get to the front desk. The Security guard comes over to me as if to say, You need to get in line.

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Jason Tuttle: and before he can say anything I went I don't think he's breathing. I need help immediately.

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Jason Tuttle: so he snaps his fingers. The the nurse comes over to me. She looks at him

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Jason Tuttle: now. Understand, I've been in this hospital a hundred times, and this nurse looks at me and goes follow me, and we run at a full speed back to the er I've never run anywhere in this hospital.

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Jason Tuttle: so we get back in the er trauma room, and I instinctually I get him out of his chair. I put him on the table there, and I back out of the way, and hope that they'll let me stay in there because one he's nonverbal and the State. Excuse me that he comes in there. He's not talking, anyway, so I'm the only one that can really tell them what's going on.

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Jason Tuttle: So there's another trauma room beside of this open eye back off in there, and they let me stay in there. So they immediately cut off his clothes. They intubate him, which is putting the tube in to get air into his lungs, they immediately start chest compressions, and then a gentleman on his let's see, it was his left side just comes over to his knee and literally drills a port into his knee. No anesthesia, nothing.

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Jason Tuttle: And a normal person. If you did that, it would be so painful that you would come out of your skin because of just where it was, and and just the nerves that are there

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Jason Tuttle: now. Later I asked him. I said, Why did you do that? And he said, Well, the state in which your son came in when we get a patient like that.

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Jason Tuttle: it's a way to get antibiotics and stuff into them immediately. And we know that when we do that because of the state they're in, they're not feeling it. Anyways, this is kind of a

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Jason Tuttle: almost a last ditch effort to try to get them revived again. And I said, Okay, I understand that.

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Jason Tuttle: So I'm in there watching this whole thing as it's unfolding, and the er Doc comes over to me, and she goes down to the minute. How long has he been this way. And I said, You know, I go, you know, plus or minus 2 min. He's been this way for X amount of minutes, and she goes okay. She barks orders. She comes back to me, and she goes. Explain to me the scenario as to why you brought him up here, and so I tell her everything that's going on.

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Jason Tuttle: and she goes off and kind of gives orders to everybody in there, because there's like 15 people in here. At this point. It surprised me how many

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Jason Tuttle: they're doing their business, and I'm watching it, just taking it all in and about 5 min no, 10 min into it. I see them get the paddles out. They put the stickers on them, and just like a medical drama I hear him yell clear, and they hit that button, and he raises off the table just like in a medical drama.

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Jason Tuttle: Now, while this is happening, I'm looking at the Monitor that I've looked at a hundred times before, you know. Kind of the heart rate, and the breathing rate, and the pole socks, and all that stuff on there, and that heart rate does one little beep up and goes right back to what it's doing.

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Jason Tuttle: So as I'm watching this in my brain, I'm going. He's not coming back now, understand at this point. It's 10 min. They work on him for a total of 45 continuous minutes until it's done. And, in fact, I told the er, Doc, I said. I said, I know y'all were trying to do everything you could, but I said I never thought y'all would work for almost an hour trying to save him. I said, I said, even though the result was the same. I appreciate your effort, so

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Jason Tuttle: you know they shock him. He kind of goes back to what he's doing. And I and I'm thinking he's not coming back. But it doesn't hit me because I'm I'm having to compartmentalize everything.

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Jason Tuttle: I'm not understanding the severity of the situation in this moment.

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Jason Tuttle: I say it to myself that I think he's not coming back, but it just doesn't hit me.

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Jason Tuttle: so they continue to work on them, and they probably shock them 4 or 5 times throughout the entire time.

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Jason Tuttle: The doc comes over to me and she goes. Well, I can shock him again. But unfortunately, she said, I think the results going to be the same.

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Jason Tuttle: And I just said, You know, I know a lot about his condition, I said, but this is out of my professional wheelhouse. This is out of my wheelhouse. Do what you think is professionally necessary.

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Jason Tuttle: and I think I don't remember. I think they shocked him again, and she comes back to me, and she pronounces them.

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Jason Tuttle: So I turn into the other trauma room, and I have a moment literally for about 30 seconds. It's that fast.

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Jason Tuttle: and I regain composure, and I call his mother. Now understand. At this point my wife's working from home

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Jason Tuttle: she's doing. She's doing the you know, the virtual stuff for her work. My wife at this point is thinking, well, I'm just getting admitted to the hospital. We're gonna have our, you know, 7 to day is 7 to 10 day. Stay that we always have, and I'm just calling her to say, Hey, we're admitted. This is the room we're in.

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Jason Tuttle: I have to call her and tell her that her son is dead on a table.

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Jason Tuttle: and I will never forget the blood curdling, crying that just hit her.

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Jason Tuttle: And so she does that for about a minute, and then she starts regaining her composure. And I'm I literally, I say.

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Jason Tuttle: just be quiet for a minute, I said. I'm not trying to be bossy or demanding, I said, but this moment requires this, I said.

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Jason Tuttle: Get a hold of your boss, tell him what happened. Leave work.

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Jason Tuttle: call your parents, have them drive you up here. I'll be waiting on you.

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Jason Tuttle: And she goes okay, because I knew she couldn't make decisions. In that moment, after what I just told her, and she said, okay, I said, please do that. We're in this room.

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Jason Tuttle: And so she does that. And then I have to call my mother, who's watched her grandson many times, and I'll never forget her response, you know, and we get off the phone now. 2 weeks later my mother pulls me the side and she goes. I'm curious

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Jason Tuttle: how soon after Zachary passed, did you call me? And I said, 10 min.

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Jason Tuttle: and she goes. 10 min, she said. So. He had been passed away literally 10 min prior, and you just called me. And I said, Yes, and she goes. You were stoically and eerily calm, and your son had literally just died right before you.

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Jason Tuttle: And I said, yes, I said, but

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Jason Tuttle: I had to compartmentalize in that moment, because if I'd been a blubbering idiot, if you will. I wouldn't have been able to tell y'all what had happened, and I said I needed to tell y'all what had happened.

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Jason Tuttle: and so I mean she understood that, and you know I waited for his mother to come up, and the care team came in there, and you know we got I found out. You know just what I need to do to get him home into the funeral home, that kind of thing.

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Jason Tuttle: And we were there for probably another hour with with his mother and her parents. And you know I tell people all the time, I said, outside of the actual passing I said, the 2 things that are burned in my brain.

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Jason Tuttle: Everything had happened. I was waiting on my wife to come up there to see him, and I went to go grab his hand, and he was ice cold.

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Jason Tuttle: and that struck me as odd because it would. I don't. 45 min earlier. He was, you know, full, you know, full of life, and he was warm, and it just struck me how fast he got cold.

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Jason Tuttle: and the other thing that really struck me was

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Jason Tuttle: after we finally decided to leave, and you know we were going to go to the funeral home. That kind of thing. I had to take all of his cut off clothing, put it in his empty wheelchair, and roll that thing through the hospital.

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Jason Tuttle: and that was the longest walk I think I've ever taken. I will never forget that moment, but that was kind of that day, I mean. There was several other things that happened with family and funeral home that day, but that from the time I got him up to the time he was pronounced was maybe 2 h that morning.

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Chris Anne Coviello: What inspired you to start writing the letters to Zachary? And how did that evolve into this public blog and community.

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Jason Tuttle: So I agree very hard for probably a year and a half.

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Jason Tuttle: and in that time I've always been a big proponent of counseling or therapy, whoever one sees.

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Jason Tuttle: and I believe that we all go through seasons of needing it. And the irony is is 2 weeks prior to him passing, I literally just called to cancel with my counselor because I felt like I had gotten through that season, and there wasn't a whole lot I had to talk about to her.

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Jason Tuttle: So that had happened, and I called her, and I started going sessions again, and probably about the 6th or 7th session I had. After that she one day she goes. Have you ever thought about writing a journal?

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Jason Tuttle: And the irony is, my response was, you know I don't think I'm that great of a writer. I don't know if that's something that's kind of my thing to do.

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Jason Tuttle: Excuse me, and she goes well, you don't have to do it right now, she said. You can put it on the back burner. It's something you can pick up later, and she's just like, even if you do start writing, you don't necessarily have to share it with anybody. It's more of to get it off of you versus all that just sitting on you.

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Jason Tuttle: And I said, Okay, and it sat on the mental back burner for probably 9 months. After that point it was a long time.

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Jason Tuttle: and in that process

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Jason Tuttle: we all know that Facebook has a group for everything. So I went on there to find grief groups, and I found several that I joined, but

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Jason Tuttle: I found one that was parents that had lost a special needs, child, which I'm shocked that I found, because

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Jason Tuttle: grief is already a specified field. But to find one of parents that lost special needs kids. It goes from this big down to about this big is how small it is. And I got to know the female admin in there. Very well.

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Jason Tuttle: and one day, after I'd started writing, I messaged and said, Hey, do you mind if I post one of my journal entries, and and almost before I could finish the statement she goes, yes, please post it, she said. We never get any men in here willing to open up about this topic, and all of us that are the women in here would love to hear your perspective on it. And I said, Okay, so I copied and pasted one, and

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Jason Tuttle: right before I hit, you know, send to post it. I paused for a minute, and I thought, as noble as this is, it's still the Internet. And if I should, I get negative comments on it? Am I going to be able to handle it? Because at this point I was still within the 1st year of grief, and I didn't want to post something. Someone have a negative comment on me. Want to jump down their throat because they just disagreed with whatever my stance was.

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Jason Tuttle: But I still posted it.

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Jason Tuttle: didn't get any response in it. And then, later that evening I all of a sudden it blew up. I got a massively positive response.

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Jason Tuttle: I had all these mothers and girlfriends, and you name it in there, all commenting very positive things. In fact, I had one woman that I'll never forget. She goes. We've never met, you know our paths have never crossed. I've never told anybody how I felt deep down inside, and I just read this letter, and she goes. You have nailed how I feel on the head, word for word. She's just like nobody has been able to understand how I feel before you.

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Jason Tuttle: And I said, Well, I appreciate that it resonates with you. It's inspired by my son, and I said, I'm glad you can, just you know it's something that you can hold on to that at least someone else understands how you feel.

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Chris Anne Coviello: So I kept doing it for several weeks, and it kind of it started to evolve into a Facebook group because.

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Jason Tuttle: After several weeks of getting kind of the same style response in my brain, I went. You know I've got something here. Let's see if I can kind of grow this because I think it's a necessary thing. And I made a Facebook page and I started building a following there. And you know, it started kind of getting word of mouth, and you know it all kind of blew up from that very 1st post, and I tell people all the time.

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Jason Tuttle: If it hadn't been that one woman's comment, I probably wouldn't be here today.

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Jason Tuttle: So it it all started for me, sharing in one of the Facebook groups. And

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Jason Tuttle: it's it was also while I was grieving and kind of verbally vomiting on a page, if you will, knowing that it was helping others that were feeling misunderstood helped me to heal in my grief.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Right, and for them to not feel alone in.

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Jason Tuttle: Exactly.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Thoughts and feelings, I mean just so profound. And what a great Testament to

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Chris Anne Coviello: like! Just be brave and be vulnerable and share, and you just never know who you could be affecting. And then, on the other side, too, when you read something to be able.

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Jason Tuttle: And.

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Chris Anne Coviello: To to reach out and thank someone and let them know that what they shared with you really touched them. Because look what that sparked in you to like, oh, okay, you know that recognition? How would you say that? You know the act of writing and really sharing your grief? How has that impacted your healing process.

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Jason Tuttle: It's been a huge way of healing, even before all of this. I've always been one that if I've had stress or emotion, I've always had to get it off of me, because when, at least for me and my personality, if it sits there that's never good for me, I have to find an outlet somehow, and

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Jason Tuttle: even my wife said earlier this year, she goes, you may not see it, but from my point of view you are vastly different in your response now versus what you were in the beginning

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Jason Tuttle: meaning.

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Jason Tuttle: you know, the stages of grief. And typically for men the 1st stage of grief is always anger, and I for a while there I was. I was very internally angry for a long time, and so this helped me when I would write these letters to my son.

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Jason Tuttle: It helped me to get that out, meaning.

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Jason Tuttle: if I felt like in that letter that I wanted to drop an F bomb, or say something in that vein. That's how I wrote it, I wrote in the moment. This is how I'm feeling in this moment dealing with this just devastation, and so for it to have the ability to drop an F bomb when I needed to, because that was the only word that described how I was feeling in that moment.

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Jason Tuttle: That was huge for me.

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Chris Anne Coviello: How would you say that?

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Chris Anne Coviello: the the feeling or the experience of being internally angry

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Chris Anne Coviello: like? How did you know that you were feeling that way? Or how did that show up in your day to day in terms of

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Chris Anne Coviello: internal anger.

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Jason Tuttle: High stress.

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Jason Tuttle: Irritation level went from about 20 to a hundred

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Jason Tuttle: frustration level, you know, dropped from, you know where it used to be where not a whole lot would frustrate me at that point. It was, everything was frustrating me. And so it was kind of those characteristics that I that I knew

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Jason Tuttle: the anger was definitely there. Now, if I really need a moment, I'd go out in the garage, and you know, do what I needed to do. Just so. It wasn't around my wife or my daughter, you know, and my wife understood. I had always told her. I said, if I feel like I'm at that point.

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Jason Tuttle: you know. Don't take it personally. If I have to walk off, it's better that I walk off and blow off steam versus

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Jason Tuttle: something more significant happening. And you know, that's always what I did. I was. And so yeah, the frustration, the irritation, that kind of stuff. Those were the big signs to me.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Hmm, yeah.

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Chris Anne Coviello: And in some of your writing and whatnot you mentioned, like society's pressures on men.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Be strong and not show their emotions. And so, in terms of like your journey, how did you confront those stereotypical ideals for navigating grief. And this idea of masculinity.

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Jason Tuttle: Well, the biggest issue that a lot of men have. And you know, I jokingly say this outside of that 1st woman's response. The reason why all this was created was out of spite.

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Jason Tuttle: And I joke about that because you go into these emotion filled groups on Facebook. And you've got 99% women members. And you've got 1% male members. And of those male members, none of them are active. And when I went into these groups. I wanted to find other men that

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Jason Tuttle: maybe they didn't. They didn't experience exactly the same thing, but I wanted them kind of at least in the ballpark like they could kind of relate. But you know my scenario is very specific, and for someone to have the exact same thing that's highly unlikely.

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Jason Tuttle: So I went in there looking for other men, and I got so frustrated that I couldn't find them. I was just like well, instead of getting upset about it make something of your own, and that's the other side of how I made letters to Zachary and everything that I've made.

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Jason Tuttle: You know men are. Well, I'm generate. I'm of the age of Generation X.

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Jason Tuttle: And you know I joke and say we're the we're the rub. Some dirt on it. Walk it off, generation. I cannot tell you how many times I was told that in sports and just growing up.

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Jason Tuttle: my generation was taught that if you are emotional it's shortened to the point. It's in private, it's never public, and if you do need time, that's the reason why they give you 3 bereavement days at work, and once those are done, you go back to work as if grief all of a sudden stops at 3 days.

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Jason Tuttle: Those are kind of the things a lot that a lot of men deal with outside of.

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Jason Tuttle: you know. It's getting better in the younger generations. But at least with my generation, we were always taught that we're the foundation of the family. We're the one that takes on the struggle. We're the providers, we're the all the stereotypes you can think of, you know, if, after all that's done, and taking care of the wife and the kids, and however we're going to do that with, if there's any time left, and sure you can have your moment there, but it still needs to be short.

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Jason Tuttle: It just

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Jason Tuttle: for whatever reason there was a stigma added to it, and you know I personally have never understood why.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yeah.

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Chris Anne Coviello: How? How do you think like if you were to, you know, speak to other women out there, how can they? You know best support men in their life that they know that are dealing with grief, and especially if the man is, you think, potentially

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Chris Anne Coviello: feeling some of those stereotypical messages, or, you know, struggling with being able to express.

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Jason Tuttle: Well, oh, I lost my train of thought.

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Jason Tuttle: a lot of the times that I've said to many women online, I go

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Jason Tuttle: most men. When it comes to relationships

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Jason Tuttle: they want to be the protector and provider. It's not that we don't want to be that we don't mind that the female side is more emotional. Whether that's stereotypical or not, we're okay with that. If if y'all are having your moment and all that, you want us to be there, just someone to listen to, whatever your issue that you're going through is, that's fine. We don't mind that.

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Jason Tuttle: But there are rare occasions, or maybe more than that where we do have our moments. And so

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Jason Tuttle: I tell women

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Jason Tuttle: what men are taught in society is that women's emotions come first, st and what I mean by that, and the example I always give is, if you don't believe that to be true. I live on a street with 50 houses on it, and I can guarantee I can walk in at least 5 of them, that somewhere in that house there's the phrase that we all have heard. Happy wife. Happy life

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Jason Tuttle: on, on some sort of plaque, or something like that. Again, men don't have an issue with that. But what that subconsciously tells us is the the woman, and everything about her comes first.st And again, 99% of men want to be able to provide that. But when it comes to emotions and all that. If we have it, it teaches us that

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Jason Tuttle: hers comes first.st Once she's done with it. If there's anything left, ours can possibly come in there, and I try to tell women if if you have a significant other that's not opening up.

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Jason Tuttle: there's just a couple of things you got to be aware of first, st if he finds it important enough to come to you when all of his life he's been told that you don't open up about it, and your 1st comment is, I can't believe you're upset about that. Is that really bothering you? A comment in that vein?

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Jason Tuttle: He may not say something to you, but he will note it in his head, and that subconsciously tells him that his feelings are not as important as yours.

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Jason Tuttle: And so I say that to women

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Jason Tuttle: this is not a personal attack. This is just something to be mindful of. If you're wanting your male significant other to open up

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Jason Tuttle: when you're

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Jason Tuttle: when your significant other comes, comes to you and starts talking to you about about whatever the issue is that's bothering them. You've got to listen to listen and not listen to respond.

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Jason Tuttle: You've got to be able to hear what the person is saying, not waiting for an opportunity to jump in there.

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Jason Tuttle: I've heard on several different occasions from different people that go. The moment I stop to take a breath she jumps in and tells whatever my emotional moment is, she jumps in there, twists what I have around and and tries to tell me how my emotions are bothering her.

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Jason Tuttle: So

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Jason Tuttle: basically that says again, her emotions are more important than mine are, and if I'm going to meet this kind of wall every time, why am I going to open up to you.

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Chris Anne Coviello: And then last, but not least,

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Jason Tuttle: You know I try to tell women, if

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Jason Tuttle: you expect your male significant, other to

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Jason Tuttle: if you expect your male significant other to want to listen to you, whether whether it's venting or you just talking, because we all know men are fixers and a lot of times the female significant other doesn't necessarily want us to fix it. They just want us to listen, and that's fine. But if you expect us to 100%, listen to you as you're having your moment with us.

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Jason Tuttle: it has to go the other way. It has to balance out. If it's only one sided, there will always be problems. And and that's more than just grief. That's just emotion in general. And so

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Jason Tuttle: those are kind of the things that we do with outside of the last one being a lot of men, have been taught that if I open up now and we get into an argument later, this is going to get thrown back in my face. It's going to be. It's going to be thrown back in my face to hurt me because she's upset about whatever? Because we're having an argument. Why am I going to share something like this to you? If I know it's just going to be thrown back at me when you're upset.

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Jason Tuttle: and those are kind of the big ones that I try to tell people all the time. And again I say, it is not as attacking, but more as just be mindful of it.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Are those some of the things that you feel like your wife did to support you in the journey? Or is there anything unique that you feel like she did to hold space for you.

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Jason Tuttle: Well.

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Jason Tuttle: the the wonderful thing about my wife is, we've all won, you know, in any marriage we've had our ups and downs, but one of the good things that we've. We've always been good communicators back and forth.

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Jason Tuttle: as it relates to grief. She's the quiet one she goes, has her moment she comes back. She's okay with it, as you can imagine. With all this I'm the more outspoken one about. I'm the more open one about. I'm the visual one. When I do have those moments, she always

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Jason Tuttle: the only thing I really asked of her, at least in the beginning, year, year and a half of this was when I need space. I need space, and it's nothing personal. It's just

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Jason Tuttle: that's just how I'm processing all of this. And she was great with it, because again me and her were vastly different in how we express this.

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Jason Tuttle: And she was always, you know, if you need to talk, I'm here. I'm not going to push it, and you know I was this, I've always been the same way to her. And now, if if there are moments where we think each other having a moment we're not talking about. We'll go, hey? Is everything okay? And if we want to talk about, we will, if you know, if it's just not something we want to do, we'll go, you know. I just don't want to talk about it right now, and that's kind of how we've gone back and forth.

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Chris Anne Coviello: How does space

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Chris Anne Coviello: how does that look when you say like, I just need space? Does it mean like.

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Chris Anne Coviello: I'm just gonna go like, take a walk, or have some time, or you know, or we're not going to talk, or what does that look like? Kind of on the day to day. If you were to ask for space so that you know, somebody listening might be able to if they feel like I just need space. But I don't know how to communicate to that partner, or how to explain to the partner how that might look for me, because I feel like that could probably be pretty different for each person.

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Jason Tuttle: Well, I'm when I when I say I need space. I don't mean like physical like I'm leaving the house.

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Jason Tuttle: I typically will get on my laptop and on those moments I need space is typically when I'll write something or do something. Grief related, and I'll put my headphones on and listen to my music, and I'll just

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Jason Tuttle: like like she jokes with me to this day, she said. I'll sit there, and I'll be just typing away like a madman, and she's just like, what are you typing so feverishly about? And I'm just like I'll let you know when I'm done. And you know for us. That's what I mean. I mean, we're literally sitting on the same couch next to each other, and I'm just like, just give me a minute. I've got things on my brain that I have to get off. And that's just kind of my definition for us.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yeah, yeah. So it's not. It's not like,

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Chris Anne Coviello: you're not like setting a container of like, I need 2 h, or you know.

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Jason Tuttle: No, no, nothing like that.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yeah, it's a little bit more in the flow.

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Jason Tuttle: Yeah, yeah.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yeah. Sounds like she's very

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Chris Anne Coviello: graceful and patient with just let letting you kind of do your thing and just letting you have that without sort of poking and prodding too much.

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Jason Tuttle: She has, and unfortunately, fortunately or unfortunately for her, my brain runs at about a thousand miles an hour, and like, when she wants suggestions for things before she can finish the sentence of asking for for suggestions. I will have 5 suggestions before she's finished my brain, and I admit it. Sometimes my brain runs faster than my mouth will allow.

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Jason Tuttle: So yeah, that's kind of how her and I operate. And she she found that out very quickly on, and she was just like, I'll let you have your minute.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yeah, that's beautiful.

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Chris Anne Coviello: I love that. I mean, I think that's what really makes. You know, a relationship is being able to kind of understand each other's different ways of operating and just holding space for it.

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Chris Anne Coviello: So in terms of, you know, building this community and this legacy of Zachary, what's been like the most surprising or meaningful response you've received from someone who found comfort in letters to Zachary.

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Jason Tuttle: Well.

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Jason Tuttle: I'm nerdy in the sense that like when it comes to web pages and all that. I like all the analytics that go along with it, and the numbers that go along with it, and whether the people on my Facebook page know it. I know who all my regular visitors are my regular responders are. And so the fact that I continually write material that relates

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Jason Tuttle: like right now, I've got almost 1,250 followers on my Facebook page, and there's probably 8 or 9 that literally everything I post they will make a comment on. And

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Jason Tuttle: the fact that I write so many different variations of content, all grief related, but in different forms, and they always comment on it. They may may not realize, but that means the world to me that

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Jason Tuttle: they find value in what I'm writing.

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Jason Tuttle: because sometimes when I do this this material, sometimes I'll type it out and I'll share, and I go.

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Jason Tuttle: That seems like that runs on, or that seems like that doesn't make sense. And then I'll get one of them going. You know I was having a tough day, and I read this, and this is what I needed to hear.

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Jason Tuttle: And so it's stuff like that that mean the world to me. I'm pretty simple when it comes to that.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yeah, I'm a huge believer in like the ripple effect that you know just these little things that you put out. You just have no idea how far that can travel.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Pretty profound. So you've expanded your platform to include a coloring book aimed at helping families discuss grief.

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Chris Anne Coviello: So what inspired this project? And how's it been received so far? I love it. Oh.

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Jason Tuttle: So

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Jason Tuttle: all my life I've been, I tell people I've been a little a little left of normal, and I always like things that are just, you know, not what everybody else does.

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Jason Tuttle: And

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Jason Tuttle: I got in one of the podcasting groups on Facebook. And I ran across this woman that actually happened to run her own publishing company up in Boston, I believe, and we got to talking. And she had a podcast and I was actually talking to her to

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Jason Tuttle: try to see if you know, maybe we could do an episode that would relate to whatever her podcast. Was about. And she goes well, we can do that, but she goes. I think I can do one better, she said. Have you ever thought about publishing something I said. I have, I said, but I just haven't had time for it. And so we went back and forth and brainstorm ideas. And it was actually her idea, she said, well, have you ever thought about a coloring book? And I said.

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Jason Tuttle: Well, that's a little unusual. And I said, I'm typically pretty unusual. So let's talk about it. And we got to talking about it, and that's kind of where the idea came from now for the coloring book itself.

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Jason Tuttle: At this point in the grief journey I had created a following, and I had several people that I had collaborated with in the grief community. And so I wanted to find a way to give back.

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Jason Tuttle: because at this point I'd had people help me build my following several podcasters, several youtubers, that kind of thing. And I wanted to find a way just to say Thank you, because

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Jason Tuttle: none of us in any of these communities gets where we are by ourselves. There's always people that help, whether it's advice or followings, or you name it.

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Jason Tuttle: So through the publisher she made a website through her publishing website, where I told all the people in the grief community that I knew at the time, I said, Hey, I'm coming up with a coloring book, and if you're interested I would like you to be a part of it. It doesn't cost you a single cent.

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Jason Tuttle: I'm not asking for money. Anything. All I want you to do is go to this website. It's going to be a survey on there. You're going to put

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Jason Tuttle: your loved one that you lost name, or at least their 1st name and last initial. You're going to kind of put where you're from in there. And then what you're going to do is you're going to write several positive attributes about your loved one it could be about their personality, about things they liked. It could be a favorite quote, a favorite saying, something like that about your loved one.

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Jason Tuttle: And what'll happen is is when you submit it. The team of publishers will then take all of your information, compile it together, and either make a collage picture like a full blown coloring book page collage

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Jason Tuttle: picture of that relates to everything that you put in there, or if what you put in there deems it, they'll make an actual scene out of the information that you give in there and then on the back side of that page, whatever your favorite saying or your thing that you loved about your loved one the most is going to be printed on the back of that page.

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Jason Tuttle: So you have the coloring page on one side, and all the all of the positive attributes about them printed on there

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Jason Tuttle: and then for the people that had podcasts and foundations, and all that I said

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Jason Tuttle: for you guys, if you do this, you can put all of your podcast, information, everything that you're trying to promote in there and then

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Jason Tuttle: not only are you doing something for your loved one, but you're also promoting the your venture that you're working on, and the only thing it's going to cost you is, whatever the cost of the coloring book is, which there's nowhere on the face of this earth that you can advertise for 1499 period.

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Jason Tuttle: And so I said, it's at minimal cost, I said, the more you promote it the more people are going to buy. And they're going to see your information in this book, and if all of us collaborating on this book promote it like, I think we probably will then think of all the free advertisement. Y'all are going to get doing this

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Jason Tuttle: from us, promoting you, promoting and like there was. There's 72 pages in here, so there's a lot of people in here that were doing that, and it was just a way to get back. And

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Jason Tuttle: you know, I initially wasn't sure how it would go. But it was 72 pages. It blew up

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Jason Tuttle: which I was thrilled that it was happening. So that's kind of how it did. The other reason is.

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Jason Tuttle: Zachary had a sister who has medical needs as well, and delays and several other things.

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Jason Tuttle: And one day I was sitting back thinking, how am I going to explain this to his sister in a simplistic way about such a difficult topic. And I and I thought, Well, who doesn't like to color adults and children. And then as a parent, my thought was, while she's quietly coloring. That will give me a moment to think on my feet. Of how can I explain this

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Jason Tuttle: to my daughter while she's doing kind of a mindfulness, activity that de-stresses her from such a difficult topic, and I can go in there, and I can flip to a specific page and go. You remember what you know your brother had? Well, this person had someone similar like that, that

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Jason Tuttle: they lost them kind of like we lost your brother, and it would be something that I could relate to her.

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Jason Tuttle: It was the the other thought behind it. But yeah, that's how it kind of came about outside the fact that

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Jason Tuttle: I knew I always wanted something

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Jason Tuttle: tangible that I could hold my hands. And this is something that will

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Jason Tuttle: outlast all of us who have put an entry in it. I have told people. Excuse me.

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Jason Tuttle: I have told people this is now on what I call life's bookshelf.

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Jason Tuttle: and it will outlast us all long after we're gone.

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Jason Tuttle: And you know that's just that's kind of the whole ball of wax of it.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Love it. It's beautiful.

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Chris Anne Coviello: let's say, like looking back, what you learned about grief, that you wish you had known at the beginning of your journey.

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Jason Tuttle: You know, grief is not what necessarily what

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Jason Tuttle: people tell you it is. And it's not necessarily what.

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Jason Tuttle: Excuse me. What like TV shows and movies show you it is grief is

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Jason Tuttle: grief, is not the 5 stages of grief. It's not like I finish stage one, and I'm done with it forever, and I move to Stage 2. Grief is very fluid. So

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Jason Tuttle: you know, I didn't know in the beginning that you know there's 5 stages of grief. And most people think it's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. No, that's not the case at all. It's 145-35-4215. I mean it. It fluctuates, depending on the moment the day. And it's stuff like that. I wish I knew

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Jason Tuttle: I wish I knew that I get more

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Jason Tuttle: kind of love, so to speak, from strangers on the Internet than I do with people around me.

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Jason Tuttle: And that is a common theme with a lot of people that are dealing with grief.

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Jason Tuttle: I wish I knew that.

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Jason Tuttle: You know a lot of people when they come up to you in those moments, and I get it. They don't necessarily know what to say, but

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Jason Tuttle: at least in the moment I wish I had had the courage to say, Look, if you don't know what to say.

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Jason Tuttle: Don't say anything. I'm not saying it to be mean, but

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Jason Tuttle: you're going to try to find something to say to me that may or may not be offensive to me, and I know you're not trying to be intentional with that. But I've had several scenarios where they tried to come up with something on the fly, and it was just offensive to me, and

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Jason Tuttle: you know I would.

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Jason Tuttle: I wish I knew how to do. I wish I knew how to

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Jason Tuttle: deal with those interactions a little better in the beginning than what I probably did.

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Chris Anne Coviello: What what do you? What do you think someone could say to someone that is in grief, that

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Chris Anne Coviello: you know when they, when it would be

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Chris Anne Coviello: sort of awkward to not say anything at all like what could they say? That's supportive.

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Jason Tuttle: Well, I would say, if the person you know is someone that you're very familiar with, or a good friend, something in in that kind of tier of people

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Jason Tuttle: you don't necessarily have to say anything at all. The only thing I was really looking for is someone that I knew was there, meaning

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Jason Tuttle: you could call me and say, You know, I'm thinking of you, or or like, Go, hey! Do you want to get out of the house for just a little while for some lunch, and you may do that a hundred times, and I may say no a hundred times, but, believe me, I'm

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Jason Tuttle: not missing the fact that you're reaching out to me, and that right there means the world to me. And I try to tell people that if you know someone with grief.

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Jason Tuttle: Just keep, keep reaching out. They notice it, and and they appreciate it. But also don't be offended if every time you get you get just a no, I mean, they may at some point say yes, but they still see what you're doing. One of the things that I had that was a frustration with me was, people would say, say, Will you just give me a call when you know you feel like there's a need, and I and I go.

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Jason Tuttle: For once in my life I'm gonna be selfish.

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Jason Tuttle: It doesn't need. I don't need to have that added onto my plate as a griever being recently having lost my son, to have to be, to tell myself that I need to do something for you. No.

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Jason Tuttle: if you're really that concerned, you need to make the effort. And a lot of the things I tell people are pretty simple. Just make the effort. You don't necessarily have to say anything. I tell people all the time, if your friend or the person you're talking to just wants you to sit there with them in the dark and be quiet, then that's all they want. It's not you don't have to make a grand gesture

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Jason Tuttle: is what I try to tell people

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Jason Tuttle: you can say our son or daughter's name. Don't think, because you say their name, that all of a sudden I will have forgotten that my son's gone, you know. In fact, a lot of us want. We would love for you to say their name or ask us about our, you know, loved one when they were around, and try to relive happy memories.

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Jason Tuttle: So those are kind of the small things that we're all kind of looking for.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yeah, that's such. That's such good advice.

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Chris Anne Coviello: It's really beautiful.

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Chris Anne Coviello: For someone who has recently experienced loss. What advice would you offer them as they begin to navigate.

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Chris Anne Coviello: journey.

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Jason Tuttle: I typically tell people in analogies, because that's 1. That's how I learn.

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Jason Tuttle: I tell people.

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Jason Tuttle: you know, when you 1st experience loss, I mean. The hard part about loss is it's such an abrupt end of life. That's probably the biggest reason why we have so much problem with it, because you go from one day, things being okay, the next day they're gone.

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Jason Tuttle: so that's the hard part about. But what I tell people is, I go.

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Jason Tuttle: Imagine you're you're on a train you're riding through like the Rocky Mountains. And all of a sudden, right before you see this long, dark tunnel

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Jason Tuttle: that long, dark tunnel is representative of when you 1st enter into grief.

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Jason Tuttle: It's long, it's dark. You're discombobulated. You don't know where you are. You're confused. You're not moving anywhere. You just want to sit in one spot because, you know, you can't figure out things. Life is just haphazard at that point.

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Jason Tuttle: but at a certain point while you're riding that dark tunnel. All of a sudden your eyes become accustomed to the dark, and you can't see everything, but you can see enough to kind of move. So you start slowly, inching, no matter how small you start slowly inching forward to where you think the front of the train is, and you keep doing that over time.

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Jason Tuttle: And then all of a sudden, at

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Jason Tuttle: however long it takes you to get out of that 1st tunnel. You start to see the light at the end of the tunnel coming from the front of the train, and you start to get some light in the car that you're in, and you look back and you realize, well, wow! I was way back there. And now I'm up here. I have moved forward some. So that's kind of like I've grown some in this. I've healed some in this, but I still have a long way to go, and then, you know, all of a sudden the train comes out of the tunnel.

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Jason Tuttle: and you have a positive moment, if if only for a short while. But what you notice on the track is, you can see

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Jason Tuttle: for miles in the distance, and you notice there are several tunnels in front of you now that 1st tunnel to the next tunnel. The amount of light that you get is a very short amount of time, because it comes frequently, but the farther you get down along the tracks the tunnels become farther and farther apart, meaning the times that you have. Rough moments or sad moments start spacing themselves out more.

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Jason Tuttle: and you can see all the way down into the valley where? Yeah, you still have the tunnels, but they're

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Jason Tuttle: pretty significant

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Jason Tuttle: distances apart. And you notice that for as far as you can see. Yeah, you still have tunnels, but they're significant distances apart. And that's where kind of the lifelong part of grief comes. And yeah, you'll have a lot of time where you feel okay? And things are quote unquote back to normal for a while. But you're still probably going to have moments here and there, and and that's how I kind of describe grief to

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Jason Tuttle: people that are new to it.

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Chris Anne Coviello: It's a great metaphor, really good.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Zachary could read one of your letters. What do you hope he would take away from them?

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Jason Tuttle: She.

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Jason Tuttle: I try to relate to him that

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Jason Tuttle: I was never perfect. I made a lot of mistakes, and even when he was around I always used to tell him. If Daddy feels like he makes a mistake, I will apologize. I never want him to feel that because I was the adult that it was. You know, my, where the highway kind of scenario, at least when it comes to

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Jason Tuttle: things relating to him. So I would hope that he realized that I did the best I could with the ability that I had, and the fact that for most of it I had to kind of work on the fly. I had to think on my feet while things were going on, and you know.

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Jason Tuttle: even though he was nonverbal, that he knew that he was loved more than life itself.

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Jason Tuttle: Did. I have moments during some of the frustrating times of I don't know what's going on. We're always in and out of the hospital. Did I have those moments? Yeah. And and yeah, he did see him. And I would, you know when I would have those moments I come back and go, Buddy.

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Jason Tuttle: you know, days just frustrated. I want to figure out the best care for you and I just I can't figure it out right now, and and I go.

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Jason Tuttle: you know. Do you understand that? And in his own way he'd clap his hands as if to say, Yeah, I kind of get it. But yeah, I honestly, I just hope he understood that

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Jason Tuttle: despite with everything going on, that both he and his that myself and his mother did the best that we could with just what we had in front of us.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Absolutely.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners about your journey and your mission, or the message of letters to Zachary?

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Jason Tuttle: Sure 2 short things.

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Jason Tuttle: 1st of all for men, because originally this all started for just men, but it has expanded since then

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Jason Tuttle: for men I would want to tell you. Men are weird. Gender in the sense of men are the only gender that does not want to be told when to do it, how to do it, where to do it, how much to do it, and all that, all that stuff relating to it. But the irony of that is

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Jason Tuttle: one of the hardest things that for men to deal with, which is emotion, especially relating to the loss of a loved one. You don't want to be told what to do, but as it relates to this, you let everybody and their brother tell you what to do.

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Jason Tuttle: so you can't tell me. You can't come to me and go. Well, I don't let anybody tell me what to do. Would you let them tell you what to do, and how you feel in a situation that you know that they have no idea about. Well, yeah, then, no, you don't. You let people tell you what to do. What does it matter whether it's someone you know, or someone on the Internet? What they think about the situation that you're personally dealing with?

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Jason Tuttle: You know, my thought process has evolved over time in the sense of

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Jason Tuttle: I'm going to write what I'm going to write if you like it. Great, wonderful! Thank you. I appreciate. But if you don't

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Jason Tuttle: click somewhere else, because I'm not going to stop writing the way that I feel in this situation, it's my feelings if you can relate to it wonderful. But I'm not going to lose any sleepover, because you think I'm grieving the wrong way

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Jason Tuttle: is what I try to tell a lot of men because

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Jason Tuttle: men are funny in the sense of

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Jason Tuttle: when they see someone else do it. And they're okay doing it. Then they'll want to do it, but none of them want to be the 1st one.

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Jason Tuttle: And so, if that means I have to be a guinea pig to the men in this and where I'm at to show them it's okay, and it's not detrimental. Then call me the guinea pig. I mean, I have no problem being that

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Jason Tuttle: the last thing I'll say is

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Jason Tuttle: the quote that I came up by my, that I personally came up with that I say to everybody, is

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Jason Tuttle: when I'm talking to them about grief in the grief journey. I'll go, though I strive for the mountaintop. It is the valley in which I live.

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Jason Tuttle: and what I mean by that is, we all want to be on the top of the mountain, seeing the grand views, having the great time, and everything's positive. But the reality is, we don't live life on the top of the mountain. Those are moments of life, but ultimately we will eventually end up back in the valley, and the valley is the

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Jason Tuttle: the valley. It can be good times, but it's typically the times where we have the learning experiences, the difficult times, and all of what people might consider negative. But it's those learning experiences that teach us and give us the fortitude to want to start climbing that mountain again.

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Jason Tuttle: And that's where where you really learn something.

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Jason Tuttle: That's the practice, the experience, to get us back up to those positive times. We have to live there at certain points of our life to be able to achieve what we want to achieve, and that comes with dealing with emotions dealing with grief, anything related to that.

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Chris Anne Coviello: No so true.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Well, before we wrap up, I I do. This little thing called soul Spark 5, which is

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Chris Anne Coviello: 5 quick questions that are a little bit rapid fire, you know. Shorter answers. Just to wrap up

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Chris Anne Coviello: What's 1 thing you've learned on your healing journey that you think everyone should know.

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Jason Tuttle: The old quote, and it may even be cliched is this, too shall pass?

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Jason Tuttle: Maybe not. Maybe not the grief journey. But the moment you're in this, too, shall pass.

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Chris Anne Coviello: When life gets hard, what's 1 practice or tool that helps you? Come back to yourself.

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Jason Tuttle: I will always have to go back to writing, and just as an outlet

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Jason Tuttle: that that for me to be able to get it out and get it onto a page whether I share it or not means it's not sitting on me, and I can move on to other things.

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Chris Anne Coviello: What does the word healing mean to you right now, in this season of your life.

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Jason Tuttle: It means not moving past the grief, but moving forward with it.

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Chris Anne Coviello: If you could go back and whisper one message to your younger self, what would you say.

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Jason Tuttle: Oh, wow! That's a loaded question for me.

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Jason Tuttle: In my fashion. I'd probably go back and say to myself, Buckle up, Buttercup, because you're going to have some bumpy moments, but you will learn things from them.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Last question, what's lighting you up or giving you hope these days?

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Jason Tuttle: The ability, whether they're whether I see see it helping them or not. But the ability

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Jason Tuttle: of being able to help others through just what I've created. Sure I have my fans or followers that always comment. But I also have probably 1,200 others that probably don't comment, and

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Jason Tuttle: whether they say it or not. I'm sure it's helping them in some form or fashion.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Totally agree. So many people read and feel, and are affected, and never say a thing.

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Chris Anne Coviello: So true, Jason, where can people find you.

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Jason Tuttle: You can. Probably the easiest place is my website, which is letters to zachary.com

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Jason Tuttle: on there on the front page. If you go to the bottom you'll find all my social media, which I'm on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, and Linkedin. If you really want to go to Linkedin, all of them under letters to Zachary. Except for Linkedin. It's it's Jason Tuttle on there. If you're interested in the coloring book.

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Jason Tuttle: If you go to letters to zachary.com. I believe it's the 3rd section down. You'll see a picture of it, and I've got a button right there that you can go to the Amazon page, if you're if you're interested in it.

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Jason Tuttle: As for posting, typically, I'll post on Facebook first, st just because that was the 1st one I ever started with. If you're someone that would like to read some of my journal entries on my website, I have the first, st every writing from the 1st full year of my grief journey on there. It's like 78 different pieces that's on there that you can scroll through if you're interested in reading them.

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Chris Anne Coviello: That's very powerful. What an offering.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Jason, thank you so much for talking with us today and sharing your story. I'm sure it will help a lot of people, and I can already think of so many people that I wanna

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Chris Anne Coviello: send your way to to your page that I'm sure.

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Jason Tuttle: Okay.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Really

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Chris Anne Coviello: glad to have a place and a resource to to find community. So thank you for what you're doing.

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Jason Tuttle: Well, thank you. I certainly appreciate being on your podcast today.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Well,

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Chris Anne Coviello: I'll reach out and let you know when we have this one up. Live and thank you so much.

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Jason Tuttle: Thank you.

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Chris Anne Coviello: Yeah, many blessings on your journey.

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Jason Tuttle: Thank you.