Call of the Ocean
Discover the profound connection between humanity and the ocean with our unique collection of stories. This curated series features captivating interviews from individuals who lives have been shaped by the sea.
Each story offers a glimpse into the transformative power of the ocean, showcasing its ability to inspire, heal and connect us all.
Call of the Ocean
Swimming with Sharks
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What if we were wrong about sharks?
This episode we speak with Jim Abernethy, wildlife film maker and conservationist. Where he introduces us to a new world which reveals that sharks are affectionate creatures.
https://youtu.be/gEu1qsFMOdk?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/9N_-rAtAGuI?feature=shared
https://youtu.be/0HGoVZjND-U?is=X5b2T4v5YumFtcXW
https://wildlifevoice.org/campaigns/
@jim_abernethy
Welcome to Call of the Ocean Podcast. My name's Karis.
SPEAKER_01And my name's Neil.
SPEAKER_03In today's episode, we'll be speaking to Jim Abernethy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, Jim is a wildlife photographer and filmmaker, but he also takes people out on wildlife encounters.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, and in particular with sharks. That's right.
SPEAKER_01So he introduces people to sharks, but he's also introduced the world to the more affectionate side of sharks.
SPEAKER_03Definitely. And we really hope you enjoy this episode. It was really fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're bound to enjoy this one. He was a hoot to record with, wasn't he? It was really lovely bloke. So yeah, hope you enjoy it. See you on the other side.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for agreeing to come on our episode. We really appreciate it. And you know, I've been looking at all your videos and everything, and everything that you're doing, and Emma, the shark, is just absolutely gorgeous.
SPEAKER_00That's actually her right behind me. On my background. Yeah, I've been I've been blessed to follow my dreams my entire life, thanks to my parents homeschooling me as a child and showing me how to go about through life, doing what you want to do, basically. I had no idea it would turn out this great, though. You know, I moved from land in 1997 to be at sea full-time. So you live on the boat now? Since 1997, I bought a large live-aboard 12-passenger four-crew boat with the hopes that there would be other people that wanted to be in the water with large predatory sharks like I did. And realistically, I didn't think the bank, I thought the bank would repossess the boat because I didn't think I could afford it. But fortunately for me, there were a lot of people that wanted to do this. So basically, I am the pioneer in large predatory cageless encounters. And for the first 17 years of the that boat's existence in the Bahamas, we were booked three years out in advance. So I and and which was very fortunate for me because the way that I started, you know, I grew up by the beach, first of all. My first, my earliest memory is uh a baby turtle crawling down to the beach. I was around four or five, I'm assuming. It's the earliest thing I can remember. And I I walked on the beach watching this little tiny baby turtle. And uh right here where I live now in Palm Beach County, Florida, and and and I got down and the turtle, my parents wouldn't let me touch it, and it went into the ocean, and and I I was very upset because it it left, and then I turned around and there was like 40 or 50 more of them coming. And what a day. And I remember that memory as if it was yesterday, and that kind of pushed me into the ocean. And at a very early age, I learned to scuba dive. I finally got scuba certified at age 12. Well, because you couldn't get certified before age 12. But and I because of my parents' highly educated background, I had to go to college, which I which I did. And because I love animals, in fact, I'm crazy about animals. It's all I do, fortunately. But I thought I would wanted to be a vet to help animals. Fortunately, I failed organic chemistry. I say fortunately because I would have probably been a vet if I would have passed, but I got a business management degree and went into business for myself following my dreams and went immediately into the diving industry where I had as many as five day boats, 20 passenger day boats, going diving every day right after college. And then eventually, 1997, bought my liveaboard dive vessel that I still own today. We're at 29 years of ownership. But the reason that I say that I said earlier that I was blessed to have my business booked is because of what happened. You see, very early on in my early days of scuba diving in Palm Beach County, Florida, in the winter months, I would see scalloped hammerheads from the surface to the bottom, hundreds, if not thousands, as well as another shark species, the sand tiger shark, on all our wrecks, our shipwrecks. They were everywhere on these shipwrecks. And I didn't know it at the time. But within a decade, they were all gone. Yeah, I haven't seen them since. I mean, I may have seen one individual scalloped hammerhead, but I have not seen a sand tiger in 35 years.
SPEAKER_02Why?
SPEAKER_00What happened to them? Because of our species, we wiped them out. Now, in those days, there was one dive boat, one dive shop that had three boats called Shark Killer One, Two, and Three. And that's what they did every day. They went out and killed sharks and wiped out the sand tigers, which is a very easy shark to kill. It's basically like a cat. It just sits there. So it's very easy to shoot and kill. And the scalloped hammerheads, which were only here in great abundance in the winter months, I believe were taken out by the international shark fisheries for shark fin soup. And I had no idea they were going to disappear, but they disappeared. And in those days, I didn't know anybody that was obsessed with sharks like I am. And and a part of the obsession was because everyone thought they were dangerous, but I knew they weren't. Like the tiger shark, like Emma right behind me. So in so I, although I was running scuba charters, my focus was sharks, and my boats ran shark trips on the day boats. In the 80s, I was hearing about massive numbers of sharks being killed. But in the 90s, I actually saw pictures and video. And at that point in the mid-90s, I decided that that I came to the conclusion that I'm the only shark-obsessed person I know. My calling for sharks must be to save them. And so I wanted to get serious about saving sharks. So I evaluated all the time that I was spending on a daily basis. One third of my time was spent getting on and getting off of boats. That's a waste of time, right? It's just moving equipment. So I knew that I needed to get a live aboard so I don't have to move my gear around. And by the way, my gear is sitting on the boat right now, and it's been sitting there since I bought the boat since 1997. I mean, occasionally I buy new stuff, but you know, that way I can focus in on what I'm here for, which is conservation. So basically, the blessing that my boat was booked out for the first 17 years in a row and doing back-to-back trips, that means you clear customs in the morning in the United States and you leave United States the following night. That's 36-hour turnarounds. And spending all my time in the Bahamas. And the reason that was such a blessing is because everything I do is for conservation. Everything is based around conservation at a different level. For example, the the the trip that everybody knows me for, you know, my shark expeditions and shark trips, both of those are two different things. But the people know me for that most importantly, because it's what I do the 90% of my time. And and the the uh but uh realistically, from the standpoint of conservation, I'm only affecting 10 people a week. You know, but but that effect is at almost as great as I possibly can, because there's no greater way to have somebody fall in love with an animal than to have them with that animal on a personal level.
SPEAKER_03So is it possible to make friends with sharks?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. In fact, I'm glad you asked that question. Because this has probably been the most rewarding conservation campaign I've done. Can I tell you how this happened?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, please.
SPEAKER_00So in the late 90s, when I moved from land to the ocean to live on my liveaboard shark expedition vessel 25 days a month, I became part of the ecosystem. And there I learned that nature's very cruel and animals that get injured get taken out. And I met a one-eyed lemon shark that I named Captain Ron after the funny ocean film that came out where the main character is also missing his left eye, and Captain Ron was missing its left eye. I felt sorry for it. So I paid attention to it, I treated it extra extra special, like most people do for anything they feel sorry for. And and in 2001, this shark swam in with a hook going through its head, through its jaw, and and as it swam with its head moving back and forth, the the hook was cutting a bigger hole, and I I just became depressed. And I thought, how can I get this hook out without having to use another hook? Back then I came up with a crazy idea, at least back then it was. I wonder if I could make friends with this shark the same way I would a dog that I don't know, by giving it love and affection, by rubbing its head. And I tried this and it worked. As a matter of fact, it was pretty evident as this process went along. And within two hours I'd gained a sense of trust with this shark, and it let me remove the hook while I was rubbing its head. At that point, I looked around, and over 50% of the sharks that I could see within my view had hooks. And I thought, wow, this is a great conservation campaign. Here I can directly affect the animals I am trying to save. I can remove this immense pain that they must be in because of these hooks. So from 2001 until 2014, I was doing this alone because it's dangerous to put your hands and put your face up close to any shark. And and by using love and affection to gain a sense of trust, I was able to make friends with all these sharks and remove their hooks. And I was overjoyed every time that this happened, not only because you know it's it's quite an experience for anyone to have even a few moments with a wild animal where the wild animal is connecting. But this is way beyond that. This is where the animal is seeking you out in order to get love and affection. So this campaign I called Love Conquers All. Do you think it's a good thing? Sorry, it might get a little emotional, but but you know, uh every time I go in the water, I wonder, is this the last time I'm gonna be with Emma? Is this the last time I'm gonna see this beautiful species or or this specific animal? For me, it's specific animals because basically, you know, these these my my life is kind of like living in a paradise with a whole bunch of dogs, and and they're all loving and and you know completely different from the misconception that sharks are mindless, man-eating monsters. That's just something that the media has done to make money. But the truth is these are beautiful creatures, and and although they've never had love and affection, once they've had it, they're just like all the rest of them. They love it and they and they want more. I'm sorry, there's a distraction here. There's I have a sanctuary in my backyard. Right now, there's two hummingbirds fighting in the background here over a beautiful flower. Uh, but anyway, back to sorry for the distraction. I'll I'll try to stay more focused, but it is wonderful. It's a good distraction. As as yeah, as my as my friend Mitch Nivens says, said to me just a week ago, and I thought, wow, what a beautiful quote. No matter what's going on in your w in your life, if you give nature the opportunity, it will deliver a gem on a daily basis. We just had one. Absolutely. Get out and spend time with nature. So, anyway, I've talked honestly endlessly for 10 minutes or so. What what questions? How can I help?
SPEAKER_01Well, our first question is usually what's your earliest memory?
SPEAKER_03But you've you've done that before us, you know that I was actually gonna ask about Emma. When when and how did you first meet Emma?
SPEAKER_00Well, what I was looking for as, you know, my my specialty is obviously sharks, although if you looked at my imagery, you would see I photograph and film everything from polar caps, uh, you know, all animals, all wildlife interest me, but especially the ones in the ocean, because so many people see them. And, you know, it wasn't so long ago that everyone thought whales were dangerous, right? As a matter of fact, it wasn't until a scientist played the song of the humpback in Europe that it changed the perception of the humpback whale. And now we protect them, and their the population is rebounding. So the the uh well, I'm sorry, I lost your question. What was your question?
SPEAKER_03How did you meet Emma?
SPEAKER_00Well, so basically, uh how I met Emma, basically, I was searching for the best place in the world for large predatory sharks. It's definitely the Bahamas. And and although I've traveled all over the world and been with all types of many different types of sharks, uh Tiger Beach Bahamas is clearly the best shark diving location in the world, in my opinion. And and this, so I found this beautiful shallow water, crystal clear place with an abundance of large, very large predatory sharks, perfect for someone like me. And and and in 2001, the the year that I named it and started promoting it to the world, Emma swam in. Now she wasn't the largest, she's only 15 feet. In those days, there were some that were 18 or 20 feet. But what separated her from the rest was right off the bat, she had the personality of a very large dog, a very large, friendly dog. In other words, she was really, really big. And I don't know what I guess I can say anything on a podcast, but so what I would call the oh shit factor, like you see her, that was like a 12 on a 10 scale. Because when you first see her, they're gonna go, oh my god, this might be the last stupid thing I do, right? And then, but then as she she comes in and you see her interacting with me and the rest of the crew, basically her family, the uh non her chosen family, not her immediate family, but then you then you think, oh my god, she's and then my biggest worry is that through the week, my my human friends will want to hug her or do something really stupid. No, she's a tiger shark, right? They I mean you the you you can't let years of a relationship affect your judgment that you can just go out and touch an a shark that you don't know, they don't know you. So it's be it'd be like maybe, oh, I think in in in Europe they outlawed a beautiful dog. What's the species? Pity Bulldog, right? Because the species is dangerous, it's one of the most lovable dogs in the world, but some people raise them to attack, and because of that, they got a bad stereotype. Well, the world thinks that sharks are attack sharks, and that's not true. They're actually quite the opposite. They're they're wimps, they'll they'll swim away at first sight of you because they're scared to death, and they should be. It takes quite a while to be able to make friends with them. In fact, as far as I know, I'm the only person on the planet that's teaching people how to make friends with any predator, land or sea. By the way, if any of your followers ever are people that can prove me wrong, please reach out to me and let me know. But isn't it ironic that the first person to teach people how to make friends with a predator is using the animal that most people are most afraid of? Yeah, the shark. And I I can successfully teach someone as long as they know how to scuba dive, I can successfully teach them how to make friends with a shark to the point that the shark will follow them around. My crew doesn't really like me to use the word chase, but if you're swimming away and the dog's chase and the dog's chasing, I'm sorry, I keep referring to them as dogs, and the shark is chasing you. They want me to use the word follow. Now, why are they following you? Well, as long as you're swimming slow, they're following you so that you can rub their head because you just gave them something they liked and now they want more of it. And as you know, it it's perfectly okay if we were talking about dogs, yeah, but we're not. So the the I mean, I am truly blessed, thank you, to be able to have discovered the affectionate side of sharks and show the world what they're really like. Yeah, now unfortunately, there are whole TV stations dedicated to dangerous sharks and specialize with their one week a year. So, and they don't want someone like me who tells the truth because it's not good for ratings, right? Sharks are nice, that's not gonna sell, yeah, right. But fortunately, there are people that appreciate and cling to or seek out films that are authentic, yeah. And fortunately, I think I've done quite a lot of those ever since the discovery of the affectionate side. I am now in front of the camera, in addition to being an underwater photographer. And I think there's like 10 or 11 films, with my favorite being Tales by Light Misunderstood Predators on Netflix. If you haven't seen that, you should watch it because it shows the true nature. And I'll just go ahead and warn your listeners don't watch it if you're afraid to cry in front of someone, because you will be brought to happy tears, even though it's a shark film. So, did I answer your question? Oh, so that's uh Emma swam in and she was obviously very loving, uh uh in a whole different league than the rest of the sharks. And since then, she's only gotten better and better. I mean, it's such a joy to spend time with her. Now, on another place that I was interviewed, they the person interviewing me asked me, was actually the dodo. They said, Well, Jim, is she like that when you're not around? And and I said, Yes, but the truth is I don't know. I've never not been around to see what she's doing. But fortunately, the person, one of my crew, Hex, is his name, uh, that was interviewed next, is that no, it's completely different. When Jim gets in the water, she comes in really close and and she stays there playing with him the whole time. And when he leaves, she leaves, she she goes off on her own. Yeah. So, but I didn't know that. I didn't know that because, well, I wasn't there.
SPEAKER_01What was the story about the shark that you said left and came back two years later?
SPEAKER_00Without question, that's Tarantino. Sorry. A little emotional just thinking about it. I can't stop that. But Tarantino had another name. She's a 13-foot tiger shark. And unfortunately, she had three. Well it's painful just to think about it. Sorry. She had three hooks in her big hooks. I knew she was in immense pain. And I believe because of these three hooks, it took quite a while for me to actually make friends with her. And it took five months before I was able to remove the first hook, and I got all three hooks out within the next week and a half. And during that time, the tiger shark that is now named Tarantino, that had another name, stole my friend's video camera. And it while it was recording, and and made a hilarious video, which is, by the way, the name of the guy's camera, the name of the guy is Sima Aloys from the Czech Republic. Wonderful guy, beautiful family. And he the the shark took his camera and then swam around and it spit the camera out and bit it again. And now it was still recording, and now you can see the teeth. On the side, like a like a part of a frame. It was beautiful. It was also hilarious because in the in the scene, it was swimming around in front of his group. They're all from Czech Republic. And it was swimming around. And you could see these like deer in the headlights, big eyes. It was hilarious. And it swam off like the tiger sharks do when they steal cameras, which has happened 75 times so far. I'm only counting big cameras, not GoPros. They don't count. Anyway, it when it swims off with the camera, the what happens is all the tiger sharks swim off. It's it's kind of to me, it it reminds me of like little kids with the Cracker Jack prize. They they open the box to eat the popcorn and then they get the prize and then they fight over it. Well, they all take off to fight over the cracker jack prize. And and because these cameras are heavy, they drop it, and other tiger sharks grab it. Well, it took me 15 minutes to get the thing back, and normally I do this by myself. I tell them in the briefing, if that happens, don't follow me. I I just need to watch out for myself. So, so uh because tiger sharks are very playful. Anyway, focused on the them dropping and picking up this camera. I don't know, four or five tiger sharks there. And finally I got to the point where I could grab it. So I grabbed the camera and I looked at it and I thought, oh my gosh, it's recording. So I I filmed the the shark that would later be named Tarantino because she wanted it. It was hers. And and I just stole it. And then she swam back behind me, and I realized, oh my god, the whole group is with me, which is not good. So we put we got back on the boat and we looked at this, and it was just so funny, especially that scene where the teeth are framing the big-eyed divers, not knowing what's going on. And Cima Aloysi asked me, he said, Jim, can I name this shark after my favorite filmmaker? And I said, Well, who's that? He's he he's and he said, Quentin Tarantino. And I said, Well, the shark's a girl. And he said, How about just Tarantino? And I said, Sure. So that shark be named Tarantino. But the surprising thing was, as most of your listeners don't know this, but there's two types of tiger sharks at Tiger Beach where I've lived for the last 29 years. And basically there's transients and there's locals. The transients migrate uh away in the summer months and come back. And I and I got all three hooks out, and then she left, and I didn't know if I'd ever see her again. Two years later, I'm on the bottom with a group, same place, Tiger Beach, and I look down current and I see a tiger. Well, first of all, there's a couple other tiger sharks around. There always are, and I look down current and and I see a tiger shark swimming in at full speed. Scary, scary. And I'm thinking, thank God it's coming towards me. And I had my huge camera on a tripod in front of me, and it was coming right at me. I don't know why. And I and I put my hands down in front to so that she wouldn't damage my camera at the speed she was swimming. And that's when I noticed the scar from one of the hooks and and thought, oh my God, it's it's Tarantino. And there was a raging current. I swam off in the current, as you can see by watching the video. I swam off in the current, wondering, will she remember me? Will she remember me? And and and then I was too far away. I turned around and swam back in the current, back to where I was. And and rather than swimming towards the bait that's on the bottom, she swam right towards me, I think at least three times repeatedly, to get what she really wanted love and affection. And that's what you can see in this beautiful scene. I sh I showed this video to people, and and my college roommate Doug Noy said, Jim, this deserves its own music. And he wrote and performed a song about Tarantino and the pain that she was in. Wow. This was very emotional for me. Sorry. He wrote a beautiful song about the pain she was in and how she remembered having all the pain removed. That's why she was back. And looking back at it now, I see that that what she was doing was the same as your dog when you come home. She was excited. That's why she was swimming in at full speed. I mean, when you have horrendous pain removed, I don't care what animal it is, you're gonna remember how that happened. And that's exactly what happened with Tarantino. And I did this all the way up until 2014, where in 2014 uh I was asked to do a project by another world-class conservationist, John Heinrichs. He asked me to figure out how we can put a woman on the bottom with no mask, no protection, no nothing, dancing with tiger sharks is a peaceful protest against the shark culling in Australia. And I knew exactly how to do it. So what I did was I asked my crew if they would start training the sharks on a hand signal. The hand signal is rubbing your thumb to your fingertips so that they can see it. And that means, do you want your head rubbed? And quickly, as you can see in the Hannah video, you can see that I'm using the hand signal, and and the sharks know this means do you want your head rubbed? And they turn immediately and they swim right towards you, which I know most people wouldn't believe. But in this case, what happened over the nine months before we made the peaceful protest against the shark cling of in Australia called Tigris Sharks, which became the most viral shark conservation video the world had ever seen, 140 countries in 10 days without spending a dime. And this, you know, at that point, I'm sorry, so at that point, after I made that film, I decided that it's time that I let our guests try this. So without feeding them, I wanted to teach my guests how to make friends with sharks to the point that I would be able to accelerate the rate at which I was removing their hooks. And wow, did that have a tremendous success? Now, in order to do this, you you can't feed them because then they go into a survivor mentality. So all of this is done without feeding them. And I chose two species, the lemon shark and the nurse shark, because both of them have the ability to stop swimming, which makes this a whole lot easier than the majority of the sharks that have to keep swimming. And from 2014 all the way up in, well, it's still to this day, but all the way up until the pandemic, we were removing a lot of hooks. But during the pandemic, there were no more fishing boats. So the number of sharks getting hooked went way down. And for roughly five of my trips, we didn't have a single shark with a hook, which was quite an achievement. You know, roughly 20 years of of making friends and removing hooks. What a great feeling I get just thinking back of all those sharks that are no longer in pain. And we're still doing that to this day.
SPEAKER_03So how did this all stop?
SPEAKER_00Well, all my life I have tried to increase the happiness of animals, both domestic as well as wild. The happiness by with the sharks removing their hooks. But if I walked into a perfect example, if I walked into a pet store, which I used to have a parrot when I was married, although I don't believe in captive animals, but I walked into a parrot store one day and and I heard the the parrot store owner yell at two people back there that stay away from that parrot, he'll bite you. And I thought, well, that's not normal. W what happened to it? And he said that the parrot's owner, after 45 years, had died. And I said, Oh, he doesn't have any friends. So at that point, I decided that I would make friends with this parrot. Did I get bit? Oh yeah. But is he my friend? Absolutely. So that just knowing that his quality of life went way up, and he gets excited when I walk in the door. I try to give him an hour each time I go in there, and sometimes I don't even need to buy food. I just go in there to spend time with him because you know, all animals need friends, they don't have to be the same species. And so I always go out of my way, especially with dogs, to make friends with dogs. I've been bitten by many dogs, but you know, it doesn't matter to me. The you know, happiness is the key to successful life. It doesn't matter if you're human or animal. So that's how it started. Oh, I should add one more. The actual hand signal came about when I I got divorced. You see, the parrot stayed with me, even though I bought it for her because it loved me more. And or I believe that's why. But anyway, the one of the so I I went searching for house sitters that would take care of my my parrot. It was a blue and gold macaw, and he was very smart. He spoke a hundred phrases. He knew what he was saying. And so when I uh interviewed the first person that I actually hired her to live at my house and take care of my parrot while I'm on these long week-long trips, she said, But but what about the beak? You know, my instructions for her were just treat him like a human being. Most important is communication and eye-to-eye contact. He needs to feel like you are engaged with him all the time. And what makes it really great is when he can sit on your shoulder. And she said, Well, what what what about that beak? And I said, Are you are you worried he might bite you? And she said, Yeah. I said, Well, I'll I'll I'll train it because he loves to have his head rubbed. So I instinctively used this hand signal to train my parrot. Do you want your head rubbed? So when later I instinctively used it for the sharks, and it's I'm still using it to this day.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I was true, what you you were saying how you remember the numbers of scallop heads, is it right? Scallop hammerheads hammerheads and sand tiger sharks, and then that it's you know, it's just collapsed the popular I'm hearing more and more about if we give the oceans time, then they they can recover. Do you think that's is the hope, is I guess is what I'm saying. Is the hope for sharks that you know we've done some terrible things as a species to them? Do you think there's hope for them if we were to change our ways?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely there's hope. Yeah. In fact, uh lots of things are happening nowadays that give me even more hope that I didn't expect. But the the truth of the matter is it's not just sharks.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, presently, as a conservationist, I can tell you that only 4% of the animals on the planet are wild, that 72% of all the animals on the planet, that wild animals on the planet have been wiped out in my lifetime. So what we used to take for granted is not true. We used to think as the of the sea as an inexhaustible resource for food. Presently, this year, we kill 270 trillion fish a year. Now, what is the largest consumer of fish worldwide? Do you know? What the largest, what eats more fish than any other animal? What animal? It's gonna be us. No, no, it's not. You would think it's humans, but the the the problem, the biggest problem with our species that translates into many other problems, is greed. We are raised to make money. That's our whole goal. That's what we're taught in school. In order to be successful, you have to be financially financially independent. And and because of that, we catch fish in bulk. And because we can save money, uh, by catch, fish that was not intended to be caught, is cheaper than grass. So, what they do is they feed our cows fish rather than what they eat. They're herbivores, they don't eat animals, and we feed them fish because they they live in a crate, they don't have a choice, and that's the largest consumer of fish on the planet now is cows. But so I was raised thinking that the way I was raised is correct. But the truth of the matter is uh we are an unsustainable planet. Our planet will change if we don't make corrective actions immediately. You know, people always ask me, uh, what is the best thing you can do to save sharks? Well, it's actually the same thing to save the planet and all wildlife, and that is we need to switch to a plant-based diet. We we need to eat less meat. The plant the planet is not uh uh able to take care of so many large carnivores. So our species to make money has marketed us into thinking that we need to eat meat three times a day. And because of that, the it is, I don't know if I can do this off the top of my head, but I'll certainly try, the leading cause, not the second, not the third, not the fourth, but the leading cause of 11 of the world's worst problems are all caused by eating agricultural animals. Let me see if I can cover them all for you. Now remember, I'm sending, I'm saying the leading, not second, third, or fourth, the leading cause of global warming is eating agricultural animals. Western civilization disease. 15 of the top 16 diseases that humans get are all caused by eating agricultural animals. Eastern civilization starvation. Eastern civilization that doesn't have electricity has to rely on what they catch that day to eat. One-sixth of the world's population, or maybe it's one-seventh of the world's population, doesn't have electricity and they're starving. Why? Because we've wiped out all the fish. The you know, agricultural animals, fish are part of agricultural animals. So let me keep going. Water misuse and pollution. It it takes an enormous amount of water in order to make a hamburger. If you have, I think it's almost a thousandth of the water, one one thousandths of the water to make a plant-based burger, which is much healthier for you. So misuse of water, rainforest depletion, number five. Of course, the big one, now that we've survived the pandemic, or some of us did, zoonotic diseases are all caused by eating agricultural animals. Uh so that's number six, number number seven, ocean dead zones. All the world's dead ocean zones are where the number eight, land dead zones, rainwater, empties into the ocean. Like one of the biggest ones is the Gulf of Mexico, because all of the United States empties into that there. So there's number eight. Of course, we can't forget one of the big ones, which is the misuse, exploitation, and slaughter of what is it? I think it's about of just land animals. I think it's about 80 billion animals per year. But when you add fish into it, it's another 270 trillion per year. So in all of this, and so it got to that was number nine. I don't order. Well, I'm missing, I'm missing two. I don't can't remember them off the top of my head, but if it comes to me, I'll I'll bring them up. So so if you love animals, and I I mean truly love animals. A lot of people say they they love animals, but they only really love dogs and cats. If you love animals, stop eating them, right? Let's let's let the the world recover. Now it's been proven that if we let part of our world recover, it comes back in in an amazingly fast time. In the ocean, they're called marine protected areas. When when I first started in the 80s, it was less than 0.01 percent of our oceans were protected. Now I believe it's around 4% of our oceans are protected. To give you an idea, I don't know all the countries, but in the United States, roughly 14% of land mass is protected. So if if we were to let the earth recover by stopping all the degrading things that we do, like eating animals, you know, what do you know what percentage of a planet is is just what percentage of our land mass is just for eating agricultural animals? What percentage of our landmass? 52%. 52% of our land mass is either for cows, pigs, and chickens and other uh animals like that that we mass consume or to grow the food we need for them. That's why we're cutting down the Ms. Oh, there's another one. A tropical rainforest depletion. No, no, there's number 10. I don't know which one is number 11, but but anyway, I did pretty good. Yeah, yeah. So uh, you know, the I was raised eating meat three times a day. So proud to be vegan now. It's the best thing I can do for the planet and the animals that I love.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And no matter what food it is you make, there's a plant-based version that probably tastes better than the original. But with with with dairy, there's a five-minute video on YouTube called Dairy is Scary. In fact, how I know about this video was a franchise uh restaurant in Europe put a sign out in front of their store that said, in three more days we will no longer serve dairy. And and the reason is because of this video, which we checked out, and it's true, and we don't want to be paying for that. And and they they stopped. They're still successful. I don't remember the name of the restaurant, but dairy is scary on YouTube. You watch that once and you'll realize what you're eating, uh, what you're paying for, and you won't eat dairy anymore. And there's no reason for it. There's plant-based milks, there's plant-based cheese that tastes delicious. In fact, I regularly take just two days ago, I took one of my friends who said, Oh, I'll never go vegan, Jim. You're not gonna push that on me, are you? I said, No, I'm not gonna push it on you, but you know, if you if you truly love animals and you say you do, just stop saying that. He says, What do you mean? I said, You I do love animals. I said, You can't love animals if you're eating them. Do you mind? I'm gonna take you to a place where we can have broiled lab. Would that be all right with you? No, no, because you love dogs. You don't love animals, you love dogs. But anyway, I took him to a place to get a steak and cheese. He loved it. No part of it was animal.
SPEAKER_02Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_00And it was a lot of cheese, but it was vegan cheese. So there are alternatives, and that's one of the things that gives me great hope, you know, that that a larger percentage of people are realizing what is needed because so many people that are influential, like David Attenborough, Jane Goodall, all these people that already are vegan and are promoting a plant-based lifestyle, you know.
SPEAKER_03Sylvia Earl, as well, I believe. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Survey uh Sylvia Earl narrated two of my films so far. So I'm a huge fan.
SPEAKER_01What's the best way that people can get involved themselves, certainly with respect to shark conservation? What is what you know, what's the most effective way that they can help?
SPEAKER_00Well, do a lot of research. Of course, you know, I'm a huge shark conservationist, and my nonprofit is wildlife voice.org. That's the web page for Wildlife Voice. And I fight shark conservation all over the planet, but lately, primarily here at home, because you know they're really attacking wildlife in America now under this presidency. So what I would do is is do your research to see who is very effective. But in while you're doing your research, there's one thing that has trapped me in the past, and that is sometimes I think, wow, this is a great conservationist. And and then I realize because of how they're not taking on all the conservation projects, that they have a different agenda politics. So they're basically telling everybody what they want to hear, no matter who they're from. And that's a terrible thing. So you have to realize who is authentic. In other words, we're not uh this isn't about parties and who you're it's about those that are genuine about wildlife or genuine about sharks that you want. This is uh In in America, we call it bipartisan. In other words, people are all uh, for example, in America, they're always asking me, Well, Jim, are you a Republican or a Democrat? I said, I'm an environmentalist. I'm fighting for the environment and the wildlife. And that's what you want. I don't care which side I need to speak to, I'm gonna speak to them. And if I get uh the vibe that they're gonna help, then I will support them. So that's that's how I look at it. Brilliant.
SPEAKER_03Fantastic. And then our final question to you, Jim, is what do you think the ocean is trying to tell us? And do you think we're listening?
SPEAKER_00The question is, are we listening to the ocean? And what do you think the ocean is trying to tell us? Well, the problem is the ocean's animals don't have a voice. And it there's only uh very few humans are actually giving these animals their voice. So, what are the the oceans trying to tell us? They're not very effective at telling us because what happens is there's just a huge lack of knowing what's going on. So a perfect example of that was I was on a a coral reef assessment trip, 10 days, 10 scientists, and on the in the Florida Keys. I had not been to the Florida Keys and I I dove all those dives. I had not been to the Florida Keys in 30 years, and and I partnered with a couple scientists that were my age, and and when I got out of the water, I well, I was decimated. 95% of the coral reefs in the Florida Keys are dead. I I had not seen that because I saw it 30 years earlier. And when I got out of the water, I was depressed. I walked right over and called my girlfriend on the phone and said, listen, this is the day I get back, figure out someplace really happy, because I need to reset my depression back to a positive attitude. And and then I turned back around and uh the scientist said to me that that how when was the last time you saw it? And and I 30 years ago. And then a a young scientist came out of the water and said, That's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And I and I'm thinking, we were on the same dive. How is that possible? And I said, Excuse me, could could you tell me what did you see that was beautiful? And she said, Oh, all the purple all all over everything. I said, Well, that's a coralline algae. That is the vulture of the sea. They came to feed on the dead corals. That's not beauty, that's devastation you're looking at. But you see, it's what they perceive. They had not seen it. So the baseline shift of what it was, and newer, younger people coming into the scene don't know what it was once like, right? They say that in the last since 1970, we've lost 72% of all life on planet Earth. People that are looking at it now have no idea. So if the ocean could talk, it would be screaming at our rooftops. That how can you let your only home die? How can you let the ocean in particular, how can you let the lungs of our planet die where we get over 50% of the oxygen and over 70% of the protein that we eat? So there's your answer for the first one. The second question unfortunately, there are not enough people that are listening. Unfortunately, there are too many people that think the key to success is money. And they would rather make money than protect our only home and the wildlife that allows all of us to exist because we are truly all connected. We may not be able to see it right away, but we are all connected. So what happens on you know, over in one area is going to affect what happens in another area as well. And I don't know if we are wise enough as a species to actually come full circle and realize that the most important thing is not money, it's wildlife and our our planet and keeping it the way it was meant to be, despite the fact that we are overpopulating the planet and taking away all the wild spaces. In the end, our legacy will not be remembered for what we have destroyed. Our legacy will be defined and remembered by what we saved.
SPEAKER_03Well said. Thank you so much for coming on the episode today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thanks for your time. It's been inspirational for us, and I'm sure it will be for the listeners as well, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Well, it is certainly a pleasure and an honor for me to be here supporting your work at the best I can so that we can alter the course of our planet into a sustainable direction.
unknownBrilliant.
SPEAKER_03Brilliant. Thank you. Thank you. Hope you enjoyed that episode. I found it really inspiring. Did you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, me too. I mean, he's a really interesting guy, isn't he? Very. We could have gone on and on and on, I reckon, you know. Maybe we'll get him back for another episode in the future. I think we should. That would be awesome. And the life he has is just phenomenal, isn't it? You know, all the work he does with sharks, all the work he does for sharks. It's just fantastic, really important stuff.
SPEAKER_03It is, no, definitely. And there's gonna be some links on the show notes to some of his causes that he's got and also to some of the videos.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. And you put quite a lot on our social media as well, don't you?
SPEAKER_03I do, so definitely follow us there because that's another great way to get to see some of our guests.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so you don't miss out on any of our upcoming guests. Don't forget to subscribe. And if you have a moment, it'd be really, really useful for us if whatever podcast platform you listen to, you could just leave us a little review. As long as it's something positive. If you haven't enjoyed it, just keep that to yourself. Anyway, until next time. Bye.