Rocket Classic Mega Preview | Picks, Storylines, Best Bets

The boys are back to preview the Rocket Classic at Detroit Golf Club in Detroit, Michigan.

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The Second Cut gets you everything you need in the world of golf on the PGA Tour and more! Tournament previews, storylines for each week, and in-depth players reviews. Hosted by Rick Gehman (@RickRunGood). Joined by Greg DuCharme (@therealGFD), Mark Immelman (mark_immelman), and Patrick McDonald (@pmcdonaldCBS).

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Welcome in. It's the Second Cut Podcast. This is your mega preview pod for this week's rocket classic. They've dropped The Mortgage. It's storylines, it's best bets, it's shenanigans, and anything else that we come across for this week. If you're watching live, we're early. If you're watching on demand, you have no idea what I'm talking about. Mark Immelman is here. Hello, Mark.

SPEAKER_00: 0:31

And I'm the reason why we're early. Yeah, nice to see you, Greg. Greg and Rick, Rick, is shenanigans your word of the day? Because if so, bravo, my boy.

SPEAKER_02: 0:39

Thank you. I've already worked it in. One second into the broadcast. Greg Ducharme is coming to us. Wow, from the big studio. Good to see you, Gregors. Yes, good to see you too, gentlemen. Excited to be here. I'm glad we could work this out so we can get us all on the episode. Rick, I got to point this out. You have the cut man behind you proudly displayed. There you go. Is that an LED light? That is a custom LED. LED cut man over my shoulder. Yes, indeed. Oh, yeah. That is sweet.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18

Yeah, you got to hook us up here, please. I mean, come on now. I've got like on the mock stuff behind me. We're going to fix that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:26

We got to upgrade. I'll work on my sources. Yes, that is the cut man making his appearance right there on the wall. I have a question for you guys. Because I played golf this morning. I played nine holes this morning. And I told Armina, I said, listen, I've got this swing thought that's working pretty well for me, but I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to share it with you. I don't want to put it out in the universe. And she said, okay, that's fine. Can I tell you my swing thought? And I said, no, because I don't want your swing thoughts shared. infiltrating my swing thoughts. And she said, that's not a real thing. You have to ask Mark and Greg if that's a real thing. So gentlemen, should I be protecting my swing thoughts from her swing thoughts? Mark, you go first.

SPEAKER_00: 2:24

Okay. Wow. You're putting age before beauty. Okay. Here we go. Here's the thing about swing thoughts, Rick. I sort of view it like medication. I've warned just about every single one of the lessons I've given since 1996 that you don't go and take another person's medication. Cause that's bad for you. You know, don't go fiddling around in their medicine cabinet. You never know what you're going to find, or maybe the stuff's in the wrong bottle and then you end up doing yourself in. So I don't mind people listening. I don't mind people kind of keeping an open mind, but yeah, be careful with other people's thoughts now, as opposed to them kind of integrating. Well, you guys sleep in the same bed, so I cannot, I cannot deal with that question.

SPEAKER_02: 3:04

That's fair. What do you think, Greg? Well, I mean, you have, I believe that you have to have, belief in what you're doing. And if you have enough belief in what you're doing, then it's okay to hear somebody else's swing thought. Um, but so like, for instance, if I know that in my golf swing, I have to do X, Y, and Z to be successful, right? I have these principles that I go back to. Then if you tell me that you're working on, you know, what your right toe is doing in the backswing, I can listen to it and find it interesting. I can watch YouTube content or an Instagram swing tip, and I can not get distracted. But I have to have real firm conviction in what I'm doing in my game. Now, if that's a little frail, if it's a little fragile, now you got to be careful. My swing thoughts are too fragile. They need to germinate a bit. They need to plant roots. They need to expand before I'm willing to let other seeds come in here.

SPEAKER_00: 4:10

I've got to add this because speaking of swing thoughts, yours truly, this guy, may have hit golf balls in the garage last night. I saw that.

SPEAKER_02: 4:21

Barefoot, Mark. That can't be recommended. That's an old Sam's lead drill.

SPEAKER_00: 4:26

Well, that's the thing, Greg. Right after the show, I'm recording an On The Mark show with Tom Stickney, who's a great golf instructor, and he's a biomechanist, but he's got a real old school way about him. So I said to him, I want to do a show where it's like old school feels meet new school golf swings and what stands the test of time. And I got the list he wants to talk about, and one of them is barefoot, Sam Snead style. But this is not it. What the point I'm trying to make is, because I have I thought I'd open myself up to roasting and put the swing on Instagram, which I did. I'll tell you this, feel versus real are two very different things. Everyone says so, but I'm here to say that it's real. And so I always get the club head stuck way behind me over here. I hit this ugliest right field starting Roman candles that fly up there and just go... with nothing behind them, kind of like a firework, you know? And so I was, like, in my transition, trying to feel like I actually tipped the club in the opposite direction. Like, everyone thinks of shallowing, and shallowing's all in vogue. And shallowing excessively has caused more car accidents than I care to, you know, it's ruined more golfers than car accidents, in my opinion. So I'm trying to get the shaft looking in the opposite direction. And, man, I'm turning this thing on its head. In our video, and it's nowhere even close. The point I'm trying to make is if you're having a lesson from somebody, Greg, or whoever it might be, some professional, if you think you're doing enough, there's a high chance and a really high chance I'm saying you're not doing it enough. That's my preach for the day.

SPEAKER_02: 6:03

I'll add one thing to that. I love when you get to a plate, when you can find a thought that you can't overdo. Right. Like you're saying, you're tipping it the other way, Mark. If you tip it more and more and more and it's not too much, it's a really good thing to think about because you can get under pressure. You can get on the last hole with a chance to shoot your lowest score. And there's one thing I got to do and I got to do it with all my effort and I'm not going to overdo it. You know, that's a good place to be when you feel like you can kind of rev the engine. Okay. Well,

SPEAKER_00: 6:39

go

SPEAKER_02: 6:39

ahead.

SPEAKER_00: 6:39

No, no. Rev the engine is a great way of putting it because I just wanted to share my inspiration for this because I've been teaching golf since 1996. I think before Greg was born. I

SPEAKER_02: 6:51

was five.

SPEAKER_00: 6:52

You were five. Okay. There you are. I... I'm left-handed. I've always been too far inside out because when I was a kid, I used to sky drives. And then I read something in an old golf digest that said you're too steep, so you've got to go in the opposite direction. So I did. And to Greg's point, I went too much in the other direction, right? And then I'm watching Scotty Scheffler again last week at the Travelers. And this freaking guy has the shaft standing up and down like it's almost vertical on the backswing and the downswing. And he hits it like God. So I'm like, I'm going to steepen the shaft up no matter what it feels like. And I'm trying to get like Scotty and it's still looks like it's tilted too much. So I'm like, I'm on my mission to become a 54 year old Scotty Scheffler by steepening the shaft in my downswing. Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 7:40

I'm a huge fan of over the top and steep.

SPEAKER_00: 7:43

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. My thing. And so Rick to the question, I'm sharing my swing thoughts. So now go ahead and share.

SPEAKER_02: 7:48

No. I'm definitely not putting him out in the internet into the Twittersphere. No, I'm keeping them very much between my ears for the moment. We've got old school swings, old school swing thoughts. We've got old school golf, Detroit Golf Club established. How about this, gentlemen?$18.99 for the Rocket Classic this week. But Mark, this is going to be the last time we see it as is. They're going to do a little bit of a restoration. after this year. They're going to try to take it back to some of the roots that Donald Ross laid out. You know, things over the years tend to erode or go in a different direction slowly over time. They're going to take this back to the roots.

SPEAKER_00: 8:34

Okay, first off, Greg, let's please recognize that thoroughly professional segue that our leader, Rick, went from old school swing to old school thoughts. Yeah, nice job. Appreciate you. Yeah, to that, I think I moaned or I ranted about this here recently with a lot of the redos or restore the course to its original majesty. And the first thing a number of guys start to do is they're like, okay, we'll just rip out all the trees. And I'm a fan of trees, right? I'm just going to say that. Now, yes, if the trees are alien, I have no beef with you removing them. But if they're beautiful hardwoods and stuff, have some sort of an influence on the way the flow of the hole goes or certainly on how the golf course goes, they need to stay. So all I'm going to say about this redo about this golf course, which incidentally I love, it's the funnest walk. It's easy to walk. Yes, for the PGA Tour, it's not a big challenge for these guys because they can just blast it over dog legs and stuff like that. But if this is going to become a place where they move some of these trees, and they let the tour in there, they're going to widen the corridors for the tour guys, and they're just going to absolutely blitz this golf course anyhow. If it makes the course better playability for the members, by all means, let's just be a little circumspect with removing trees from what's going on. Because the architect looks at the old picture, and the old picture back from 1900, the trees haven't grown yet. Now, you know, 100-something years later, We've got a bunch of trees that have grown up. So let's be a little careful with that stuff. Please, I beg of you.

SPEAKER_02: 10:22

Well, here's the exact quote on the arborist that is going to be doing the job. There are a lot of 100 to 150-year-old oaks that we want to save and highlight– good news– But then he goes on to say, but there are a lot of nursery stock trees that don't have the same value. So there will definitely be some removals. There will definitely be widening of fairways. There will definitely be expanding of greens that have shrunk over time. Irrigation is obviously a big part of this as well. But Greg, the in vogue thing right now is you've got to be careful with your words because these are not necessarily renovations. These are restorations. These are going back to the original architects, desires, and dreams using old footage, using stories or comments or quotes that have been passed down in club history. Restorations are in vogue right now. Yes. And it's a very difficult one for me because I appreciate history and tradition. And I appreciate the golden age of architecture, if you will. But the game is so totally different now than it was then. And I think that if you look at the great golf courses in our country, one of the keys, the great golf courses, even just on the PGA Tour, one thing that they all seem to have in common is that they evolve with the game. If you look at original pictures of Augusta National, the original Alistair McKenzie design, it is completely different than it is now. I mean, the nines were flipped, for one. Hole number 16 had the green on the other side of what's now a pond. It was then a creek. It is entirely different. The shapes of the greens are different. It's just... The bunker placements, I mean, they moved the bunker around on number two a number of times. And they did it based on watching what happened at the Masters. How do the best players in the world play this golf course? How can we make the course better suit that? That's what Jack Nicklaus does. That's what we just came from Oakmont. That's what Henry Fones did at Oakmont. He'd watch play and adjust to what happened with the members and how they played the golf course. And I think that's the best way to go about doing it. So you got to be careful with restorations because you're going back to sometimes design philosophies that are based on a ball that's played on the ground. And especially here in America now, the golf ball is played in the air, especially inland, somewhere like Detroit. The ball is going to be up in the air. And so you got to find, that's why trees are so important because those are your hazards in the air when there's no wind. And so I think it's something that you got to be very careful with. It's something I think as an industry, we could do a better job of thinking forward. We do a lot of thinking backward. And the best place, like Muirfield Village, Jack Nicklaus changes that golf course. Based on what he saw last year at the Memorial. And it leads, it just gets better and better and better. So, you know, I, I worry about these things now. Oak Hill, Andrew Green at Oak Hill did a great quote unquote restoration. He, he did some things that, you know, the headline may have caught you off guard. Like they took out a ton of trees, but there's still a ton of trees on the place. Yeah. So, you know, it can be done. It just it's something you got to be careful with, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00: 14:21

Yeah, I want to I want to say this quickly, and this is completely deferential. So don't go and rip me on social media, people like like Oakmont for argument's sakes. It's hard as heck. But you look at the aerials and you just see like holes traveling back and forth. And the only definition is like high rough and bunkers. You know, where trees shape holes a little bit. And to Greg's point, I love that, you know, the hazards in the sky. I'll add to that, Greg, that, you know, part of the game is being able to judge the variable conditions. And when there are trees around, wind can get in there and bounce around the place. And that just adds to me the allure of a game where it's not like you can predict the wind. So you use your best facilities, you make a really good educated guess, hopefully, and then you swing away in faith. Because if you've got no trees and wind in one direction, you've got to be at the coastline, in my opinion. When you're inland, there must be some trees there to allow for this variable wind because we don't get wind like you would get in the British Isles at the links, for argument's sakes, or out there on Long Island when you're right alongside the coast.

UNKNOWN: 15:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 15:29

Trees are hazards in the sky. The sun will be a hazard in the sky. 90 plus degrees around Detroit this week. If you are worried about the sun like I am, secondcutmerch.com has your bucket hats. Keep you nice and shaded. Not just the bucket hats, the t-shirts. Maybe you're not in Detroit. Maybe you want the quarter zip or maybe you want the hoodie. The fleece hoodie, I don't know. All of it, it's available. Secondcutmerch.com. Mina's done a great job with that. She continues to add more and more stuff every single day. Gentlemen, the field this week is strong, at least relative to other Rocket Classic editions that we've had in the past. This is going to be year number seven. Remember, this event was installed with the 3M Open in 2019 for the first time. So this is going to be year number seven. And this is going to be, Greg, the best strength of field that we have had at this event. Colin Morikawa, Patrick Cantlay, Keegan Bradley, Ben Griffin, Cam Young, Hideki Matsuyama are your headliners. And then you get some more depth with Guys like Harry Hall and Luke Clanton and Keith Mitchell and Winsome Clark and Tony Finau. This will be, like I said, just based on strictly OWGR strength of field numbers and the way that they issue them based on the field. This is going to be the strongest field this event's ever seen. What's so interesting about this, guys, is a lot of those names, a lot of those real name-recognized players are not playing very well right now. They're struggling. And some of them, many of them are looking for their first win in a long time. I mean, for Keegan Bradley, it's been two days since he's won. But for some of these guys, it's been two years. So you start going down this list and you're like, well, all right, Ricky Fowler in years past, he was on the last Ryder Cup team. He's way outside. He's got FedEx Cup playoffs right around the corner that he's got to go get into. Patrick Cantlay is on the outside looking in for the Ryder Cup. Cam Young, outside looking in. Wyndham Clark, outside looking in. Matt Fitzpatrick, his game has not been where, and that could be a hard European Ryder Cup team for him to make. So this time of year with the FedEx Cup playoffs right around the corner, only 100 cards and only 70 spots in the FedEx Cup playoffs, and a very difficult Ryder Cup team to make, these are valuable starts. And I think that's why you're seeing a lot of these guys make the trip to Detroit. Well, just to put the numbers to that, Mark, this is FedEx Cup standings. Colin Morikawa is 17th, which is fine, but certainly not where he would expect himself to be. Kent Lay is 19. Hideki is 22. Then you get to guys like Wyndham Clark. Set Wyndham Clark would not make the playoffs if they started right now, 75th in the FedEx cup standing. So, so Greg is onto something here, not just, um, FedEx cup implications, but Ryder cup implications and a lot of things that you could try to make, make good with four days in Detroit.

SPEAKER_00: 18:51

Yeah. And then, you know, that a hundred number is key used to be one 25 and in the playoffs. And then, of course, 70 and 30 come quickly. I do want to say this, too. If you're an aspirant Ryder Cup player, and Greg kissed some of them, but I also want to list this. That team that played in Rome, the other guys that are currently outside the... the reckoning. And this is not just the six. This is the top 12 right now. Wyndham, you referenced. Brian Harmon is 12th, so he's on the list. Max Homer's out. Sam Burns is out. Ricky Fowler's out. Brooks Koepka's out. Jordan Spieth's out. So there's a very real chance that this Ryder Cup team for the U.S. that lines up there in Bethpage Black has got essentially a bunch of rookies, and then there's a guy like Russell Henley who played in the President's Cup but not a Ryder Cup. So it could be a really new-look thing. And so these guys like a Wyndham Clark and stuff that have this sort of experience, it's time for them to shine. And strangely, like we talk about him, last week when we were waiting for a potential playoff, and I'm standing there beside the clubhouse with a monitor, Wyndham's fiancée, I think it is, maybe wife, girlfriend, Wyndham's significant other, comes up and she's sitting there in the shade. And so I'm like, do you want to watch? Because she's waiting for Wyndham to come in because I think he was in the second to last group or maybe third to last. And so she's watching the TV monitor. And one of my colleagues says, week off next week or what are you doing? She goes, no, we've got to go to Detroit. And if I remember correctly, she was like, we've got to go to Detroit. And that speaks to where the mindset is in the Clark household. It's like limited starts left. I think there's five right before the playoffs. And it's time now to start making some hay. You can't be taking weeks off now if you're outside of the playoff numbers and certainly the Ryder Cup reckoning.

SPEAKER_02: 20:42

Here's the schedule. Rocket, John Deere, then we go overseas for the Scottish and the Open. Then we come back. It's the 3M and the Wyndham Championship. That's it. So six, including this week for those guys. And, you know, Greg, you mentioned it, guys that haven't won in a long time. The biggest name, and I'll zoom in here, is Colin Morikawa, right? Hasn't had a victory since the Zozo Championship at the end of 2023. He's played great. The statistics are there. The wins are not. And I think it's starting to seep into Colin's brain a little bit, right? We've had the caddy change. We've got a guy who is tinkering with hitting shots with or without a glove because he's, yes, Mark?

SPEAKER_00: 21:31

he has been tinkering going gloveless as well. Yes, yes. Just wanted to, I didn't know if you were aware of that, but he's going glove-free playing. Yeah, he's looking.

SPEAKER_02: 21:40

Which is not usually a sign of a very confident golfer when you're doing things like that. So, you know, I'm not sure what the state of the union on Colin Morikawa is at the moment, but I'm not particularly sure it's strong. Well, he's not satisfied. That's for sure. Definitely not. And even if you look at some of these numbers, like just think about this. At the U.S. Open, Colin Morikawa gained 16.15 strokes tee to green. JJ Spahn won with 16.3. So he almost caught JJ Spahn with just the tee to green play. You know what the problem is, Greg? Well, you got a putt. You got the best part of the game, too. Just ask

SPEAKER_00: 22:28

Mark. 14 clubs in the bag. There's 14 clubs in the bag.

SPEAKER_02: 22:31

Unfortunately. And

SPEAKER_00: 22:32

one of them you use on basically every hole.

SPEAKER_02: 22:35

Yes. Now, the other 13 he's been statistically outstanding with. Outstanding. If he gains.15 strokes putting at the U.S. Open, he's in a playoff with J.J. Spahn. Yet the very next week at the Travelers, he's messing around with hitting shots without a glove on because it seems to go. I mean, why did he even try that? I don't even understand it. And it just it just speaks to the frustration, urgency, perhaps. Maybe it's urgency more than frustration. But there's definitely a desire for something better.

SPEAKER_00: 23:22

Well, I want to add to your observation there, Greg, because I remember maybe last year or whenever it was, everything sort of blurs for me, where... Whoever it might have been on the first cut show was like, you know, Colin's striking the ball great because strokes gain says that he's 10th or whatever he is in strokes gain approach. And then I'm like, when I'm out there, it just doesn't look the same and it doesn't sound the same. And sometimes these professional golfers become a victim of their own expectations. And Colin... who's been prolific with the irons in hand, like where he'd play an entire tournament, barely ever miss hitting a shot and hitting the ball on the button every single time. Now he's in that place where I see Rick Sessinghouse, their bunch. I see them working hard on ranges. Last year was the same thing. He was on the range before and after the round, and stuff wasn't coming that easy. So even though he's hitting greens and the number seems respectable, yeah, to us it seems respectable, but to Colin Morikawa, it's like, no. Something's got to change a little bit here. And look, that's admirable to be there, but it's a dangerous place to be as well because I can point to countless times I've followed winners to PGA Tour events and they haven't had their best stuff all 72 holes. Scotty Scheffler is the best example right now. I mean, he can go through a nine-hole stretch, not hitting the thing well at all, still put up decent numbers for the lion's share of the event, but he plays golf and he makes scores despite things going wrong. And then you'll see him get a little you know, and see perhaps in the range afterwards, but it's not like it settles, seeps into his spirit. You know, the next day is always a new day and it's not like he's got to go and try and change something drastically. That's Scheffler. We're doing the same thing every single time. Then you get the other guys, Marikawa et al. You're like, well, let's go gloveless for a week and see how this works. So expectation is a really dangerous thing.

SPEAKER_02: 25:17

Yeah. It's just, I saw him, 150 yards away from the whole glove in his back pocket. And I said, oh boy, here we go. This is going to be something. Real quick, I want to go back to Travelers for just a couple of minutes because I've got an observation about J.J. Spahn. We've got two questions from Patreon that we'll get to. Greg, do you know what J.J. Spahn finished last week? What position he finished in last week? Oh, well, he moved way. He shot 63 in the final round. Did he get up to tied 19th? T14. 14th. After, okay, hat tip to this because JJ Spahn, I mean, lost four strokes to the field in round one. Could have just packed this thing in. He's your US Open champion. He just went through all of that fun stuff. He grinds you over the next three days and finishes the T14. I, color me impressed, JJ Spahn. Well done there. I've got two other comments and questions from This may sound cliched.

SPEAKER_00: 26:38

But one time I heard an old proverb that went something to the effect of, the eagle that chases two rabbits ends up missing both. Okay. So now heavy old man stuff. You guys, you can use that in the future. You're more than welcome. Thank you. So yeah, in a way, I feel like it's diluted. And actually, I was on a show yesterday where the question was, all right, who's the team going to be? And why is Keegan playing? All right. Well, why is Keegan not playing? And my response was, He's currently the seventh ranked golfer in the world. And as I look down the list of potentials on this team, I would pick him before the lion's share of them, to be really honest with you. So it's to a point where it's almost necessary that Keegan plays, in which case I'm sure he's on the phone with his assistant captain saying, hey, boys, roles are changing in end of September. And I'm sure every single one of his lieutenants is up for this because when he took the job, he was playing well. It's not like the guys he's got alongside him that are sort of playing some on the tour and not that they're ceremonial, but they're not vying for tournament wins, where Bradley has now won twice in the last three years. So, yeah, I feel like if you're doing both, it's just too much. Certainly one thing is going to suffer. And I heard a tremendous quote. I think I might have used it on Sunday night. So forgive me if you've heard this. But a colleague of mine said, I'd rather have a win as a player than a loss as a captain. And this was a person who played on U.S. teams. So that's sort of where I stand. So I feel like right now, unless something completely sinister happens, Bradley plays. And he's the captain, but it's very ceremonial. He'll take questions. He'll do stuff like that. But a lot of the captaincy stuff behind the scenes, I feel like they let him just do what he needs to do, which incidentally behind the scenes is a lot because he's got breathing regimens and all sorts of stuff he's got to go through to prepare himself. Let him do that and let him just take the odd press conference once in a while.

SPEAKER_02: 28:48

Okay, I love it and I agree with it. Greg, you're going to get Alex's question here, which is in regards to the man on the wrong side of that Keegan Bradley putt. Because a wise man once told me that every golf shot makes someone happy and someone sad. And in Tommy Fleetwood's case, he falls on the bad side of things a little bit more frequently. So Alex says, after seeing what Fleetwood did not to win this past week, those are his words, is he... or anyone else on a list of golfers that you avoid to bet on because of their inability to close? Or do you think that that's already factored in? Already factored in. And there's a lot of markets out there. So Tommy Fleetwood's a wonderful player. And he is an outstanding golfer. So there's a lot of value in that. We talk about this a lot. The reason why we talk about him in this light is because he has 42 top 10s without a win, 28 top fives without a win. There's nobody else who's done that. It may come off as being hard on him for not winning. It's because he's so good and the expectation is for him to win. From a betting perspective, you just don't bet him to win outright. He's great for top 10s or top fives, top 20s even, matchups. All of those things are in play. DFS, very much in play for him. And so sometimes, especially with like fantasy, you can look at Fleetwood and say, yeah, he's not going to win. But you got a six-man team to fill. Only one of those guys can win if you're lucky. So having Tommy Fleetwood is still extremely valuable.

SPEAKER_00: 30:39

Hey, Rick. Rick, he backed toward a top five last week. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02: 30:43

he definitely did. So I will tell you, I did the ESPN bet stream last week. And when I do that, ESPN bet sends us all the handle numbers, like who is being bet on the most, what markets they're on. So Tommy Fleetwood was the most bet top 10 player last week, which makes complete sense because it's top 10 Tommy. And he did not even sniff. the top five or six in terms of most bet to win. So people have started to learn the pathway to getting exposure to Tommy Fleetwood. So Greg, spot on. Spot on there, buddy. That'll conclude our Patreon segment for today. If you want to support the show, there's a variety of ways to do it. Like it, retweet it, share it with your friends, whatever. Leave us a five-star rating and review. If you want to support financially, we have some cool stuff on the Patreon. Links in the description. You can check that out. We're going to talk about more players here, gentlemen. We're going to do it in the form of our grid, which if you've never seen before, we do a matchup, a finishing position, and two separate outrights. This grid, don't freak out. Don't freak out. It's going to have a new look for this week because Mina has rebranded it. Go ahead, Mina. Drop it. Bang. There it is. Nice. Wow.

SPEAKER_00: 32:03

Clean.

SPEAKER_02: 32:04

Yes,

SPEAKER_00: 32:04

clean. I'm not freaked out. Mina, can you give me more hair, please?

SPEAKER_02: 32:09

Yes, she will Photoshop some more hair in there. Yes, much easier to read, much more on brand. She's done a wonderful job with this. Let's start with the matchups for this week. Mark, love the man that you are riding with here. Who is it, please?

SPEAKER_00: 32:28

Well... credit to Mina because I'd went with a group because I couldn't find matchups on DraftKings, which is kind of becoming a bit of a tradition unlike any other. It's a little early in

SPEAKER_02: 32:37

the week. They always want to drop them like Tuesday afternoon and we're like on the verge of going live.

SPEAKER_00: 32:44

Well, good. I thought that was just me. And maybe there's some recency bias here. But Sunday afternoon, when I'm standing there beside 18 Green up there on the hill watching the unfolding of Russell Henley pitch in for Birdie and nearly get in a playoff and the Tommy disaster and the Keegan win, I've got Max Graseman looking over my shoulder at my television monitor, sort of trying to figure out what's going on. Because there were a number of golfers that were very interested in the result. So just because I had Max like over my left shoulder, he was top of my mind. So as soon as I saw his name, I was like, this is a good idea. And then it became a better idea because it seems like this time of the year is when Grazeman starts to play well. Boy from the Northeast, from New Jersey, played golf in Duke, at Duke, has done really well at the 3M Open. And plus 105 over Davis Thompson, a guy who sort of hasn't seemed to have his best to me. I don't know what the numbers bear out. I just felt like Max was a decent bet around Detroit where he can just open up and blast the driver of all the corners.

SPEAKER_02: 33:51

Yeah, so a couple of things there. Davis has not been nearly as good since his victory. And Max Grazerman is a statistical unicorn, Mark. In fact, last year's season, gosh, I don't remember off the top of my head, but he was one of like eight guys ever to gain a half a stroke per round off the tee. and a half a stroke per round with the putter. Something like that. It is just the longest club in his bag and the shortest club in his bag are his weapons, and that is very, very rare.

SPEAKER_00: 34:24

All right, I'm good. Thanks for backing me up. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02: 34:27

You got it. No worries there. Greg, look at you. You don't even like America, do you? What have you picked for this week? Well, I picked an American. So I do love Americans. I just, I also picked an American to lose this matchup. I have Ben Griffin, even money over Keegan Bradley. Oh, all right. Now there's a couple of things to this one. That's a big time week for Keegan. And I don't pick guys to go back to back unless their name is Scotty Scheffler. So it's a rule of mine. Now also Ben Griffin in the last five weeks, uh, Ben Griffin has won, and he's gained strokes in every single category except for one, which was a shot in three quarters around the green last week where he finished tied 14th. Which, can I say, Greg, that is incredibly rare to do what he's doing as consistently as he's doing it. I mean, we talk about this quite a bit. Usually it's like two weeks. If you can get back-to-back weeks gaining strokes across the board, it's a great indicator. You might get a great finish the next week, but something will fall off. This is five weeks. It's crazy. So I can't look past that. Knowing that Ben Griffin still has a lot to play for, has finished inside the top 14 every week in the last five, This is, I think, a good golf course for him with his added length, added driver ability. I just, I love the game. And I think Keegan, it's okay if Keegan takes a little breath this week because that was a lot for him last week. Ben Griffin, even money over Keegan Bradley. I might have, Greg might have an issue with me here. I went with Taylor Moore over Kurt Kitayama, which we'll talk, we'll let Greg give us the Kurt Kitayama stuff in a second. Mine was more of a play on Keegan. Taylor Moore, who I just think is starting to plug the leaks in his game a little bit. And you're going to be hard-pressed to find a guy, anybody else in this field, who has three straight top tens at Detroit Golf Club. So I'm just trying to be early on him, not necessarily hating on Kirk Kitayama. So we'll save that. Go ahead, Mark.

SPEAKER_00: 36:46

Taylor Moore plays his golf course really well. He loves to draw a shot, and he works really hard not to draw it too much. I saw a Taylor Moore position bet that kept my attention for a bit. So I'm kind of with you on that Kitayama bet there.

SPEAKER_02: 36:59

Okay, beautiful. Well, we'll keep an eye on that one. Gregors, you get to go first on your positional wager, please. Yes. Now, this one has a... What is it called? A umlaut? An umlaut. That is a German... Yeah, so Mina has given Steven Yeager the proper spelling. Now, do you guys know this? This is a fun fact. Mina was born in Germany. I did not know that. Yeah, and she was there until... She was like five or something like that. Wow. So we have a German on staff. On staff, yes. I mean, if Mina was a Ryder Cup player, she'd be on Europe. Oh, and she'd be a shoe-in, quite honestly. Yeah, kind of reminds me of like Sepp Straka. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 37:44

yes. But she wouldn't want to share her swing thoughts with anybody.

SPEAKER_02: 37:48

That's fine, and that's quite okay. Yeah, this is the Ryder Cup we're talking about. All right, let's get to Steven Yeager. I like him for a top 20 this week. Game's been okay of late. I think it's been okay in every area. The short game's been suffering a little bit. I think it's a little easier here. But with his distance and his liking, if you will, for driver-heavy golf courses, I think this is a really good spot for him. So he finished tied seventh at the Truist. The talk of the town that week was you just hit driver everywhere here. In Houston, he hit driver everywhere. He finished tied 11th. In Mexico, you hit driver everywhere. He finished tied sixth. The Black Desert Championship in Utah, you hit driver everywhere. He finished second. So I think for Steven Yeager, that's going to be a really good thing. There's minimal penalty for missing off the tee. He'll be able to air it out. I like him for a top 20, especially at plus 240. Speaking of hitting driver everywhere, that's a great transition to my top 20, who is Chris Godderup, who will thrive in scenarios where you get to hit driver everywhere. And he is playing just objectively the best golf of his career. By far. By far. It is six top 28 finishes in his last seven. The advanced metrics look great. He's playing with a ton of confidence. And if you started to do a, I always say this word wrong, amalgamation, That's what the Players' Championship trophy is, right? It's a collection of everybody who's ever won the Players' Championship. If you did that for Detroit Golf Club, it's going to look a lot like Chris Gotterup because this is a place for him. Mark, your finishing position, please. And great job remembering to unmute yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 39:34

Yeah, well, thank you. I'm now becoming a professional at this podcasting stuff. First off, Matthew, yes, I'm going to be in Detroit. Come and say hello. This one perhaps is a little, I don't know, insider information. When I had a brief chat with Joel Damon in Canada, I was like, how's the game? And he goes, it's feeling really good. And I'm like, so, you know, you need a little run here over the late part of the summer. And he goes, I'm feeling good about my game. So when I saw his name, a plus 170 for a top 40, I was like, yeah, I'm going to take Joel Damon at his word. So Damon for me, top 40 plus 170.

SPEAKER_02: 40:11

All right,

SPEAKER_00: 40:11

Joel

SPEAKER_02: 40:12

Damon to get the job done only on the first four pages of the leaderboard. I think he can pull that one off. Winners for me, I will hold on to them for a second. Mark, we're running up against a Mark deadline. So Mark, why don't you give us your two winners, please?

SPEAKER_00: 40:31

I've decided when I looked at the Ryder Cup rankings and I saw Rasmus Heugard in there, I think he's currently seventh or something for the Euros. Okay. I've decided I'm going to start the Rasmus Hoegaard train because this guy's legit. So every bet that you see from now until the end of the season, I'm going to find a way to bet Rasmus if he's in the field. Blast it off the tee. Just love his game. To me, he's worked really hard on the short game. And there's a lot of that stuff around here. If you miss targets, you know, little chip shots to fast greens of uneven lies. He went and saw Joe Mayo for a bit. I asked him, so how'd that go? And he said, just to kind of get a feel on what he had to say, not necessarily changing anything. So it looks like he has a control of who he is, what his game is, drives it great, playing decently. Rasmus Horgard, 45-1 to win in Detroit.

SPEAKER_02: 41:26

Okay, and your second golfer, maybe some work to do to make sure he gets on a Ryder Cup team.

SPEAKER_00: 41:32

Yes, he let me down here recently, but I'm seeing a whole lot of good stuff out of Patrick Cantlay. Last week threatened, but just didn't get everything put together. He's sort of the favorite in the field as far as I look at numbers. So again, it's time and there's a sense of inevitability about Cantlay finally getting a win again. So I'm going to kind of bet where he's in the field and he's in the field this week. So let's go Cantlay plus 1,600.

SPEAKER_02: 42:01

Speaking of guys who haven't won in quite some time, Patrick Cantlay getting a lot of cover from somebody like Colin Murakawa. Last time, Patrick Cantlay won. Anybody? Anybody?

SPEAKER_00: 42:11

Caves Valley against Breslin.

SPEAKER_02: 42:13

No. No. Wilmington. BMW. What was that? The next year. Correct. Yeah. So, yep. Caves Valley 2021. He defended it successfully the following year. August of 2022, coming up on three years. since that victory. Ben Griffin and Cam Young for me. We've talked about Ben Griffin. Cam Young's the model here. Like, I'm ready for it. Speaking of guys who need wins. Greg, take us. He let

SPEAKER_00: 42:41

me down so badly last week.

SPEAKER_02: 42:44

Yeah, this is such a different golf course, you know, is crazy. Take us home, Greg. All right. I got Luke Clanton. I think driver everywhere could be a great thing for him. He hits a lot of greens and regulation. which is important here. He's got to get the putter going. There's definitely some cleaning up to be done, but this seems like the time of year where some of these young guys can really pop up and make a difference. So I like him at 40. And Kurt Kitayama. Now, this is an interesting record. I don't love it. I don't love anybody to win here this week, which is kind of fascinating, but I think Kurt Kitayama's been hitting the ball pretty well. Over the last four weeks, he's been gaining strokes, ball striking to the field. His short game's been in pretty good shape. And I'm seeing a spotty putter. It's been up and down. There's been good weeks and there's been bad weeks. The bad weeks have been worse than the good weeks. But I think there's an opportunity for Kurt Kitayama on a golf course like this, where he can air it out and utilize that speed to get hot with the putter and go ahead and win this. And I like it at instead of taking favorites all the time, like I tend to do because they tend to be right, I think this one, I think there's a little more opportunity here for us to air it out too. So I went Kurt Kitayama and Luke Klant. Luke Klant and Kurt Kitayama, Rasmus Hojgaard, Patrick Cantlay, Ben Griffin, Cam Young, the outrights from our perspective. Mark, I have done my duty to get you out of here. I want to say safe travels. We're looking forward to hearing you from Detroit.

SPEAKER_00: 44:26

Before I go, Greg, say Clanton with a T, please. Clanton. Thank you. All right.

SPEAKER_02: 44:33

Love

SPEAKER_00: 44:34

you guys.

SPEAKER_02: 44:34

Clanton?

SPEAKER_00: 44:36

Clanton.

SPEAKER_02: 44:38

We have a similar issue. Thank you, Mark. We'll talk soon, brother. Take care. Be good. See you, Mark. Oh, boy. The pronunciation police have gotten us again. I still think there's a T in it when I say it, but I'm going to enunciate it from now on. I've learned my lesson. That is a verbal feel versus real. I feel like I'm saying the T. I do too. I guess

SPEAKER_01: 45:01

not.

SPEAKER_02: 45:03

I have breaking news. I have breaking news for you because we've got work to do here. Tony Finau, this is correct. Tyler is absolutely correct. Tony Finau has withdrawn from this event. He has been replaced by... Joseph Bramlett. I don't know if Tony Finau was on your radar talking about guys who are kind of on the outside looking in. 51st in the FedExCup standings. He's had success at this golf course before, but we are not going to see Tony in Detroit this week. No, it's too bad. He had one of the great performances here when he won. He won in 2022 and was... I mean, he made one bogey that entire week. This was when it was played the week before the 3M Open, the week after the Open Championship. You know I love looking at these numbers, Rick. He hit 66 greens in regulation at Detroit Golf Club. That's the magic number, isn't it? Yeah. He missed six greens for the whole week. Only made one bogey. Just remarkable stuff. He wasn't necessarily on my radar. I didn't have a whole lot of action on Tony Finau, so it's no harm to me, but I would love to see Tony get this stuff figured out. Yeah, game just hasn't been sharp in 2025. Okay, we've got a little bit of work to do. So we are going to head into the fantasy portion of the show and talk through some of these names here. Let's start with the big boys at the top. There's only three in the 10K range and a handful more in the 9K range, Greg. I'll assist with some visuals from rickrungood.com. Where are we going first here, my friend? Going first to Patrick Cantlay. Mark loves him. I do too. I think this game has been really good. And if you look at this record, there's kind of two glaring miscuts in there. But they're both in major championships. We know and have known for a long time that Patrick Cantlay struggles in major championships. Make of that what you will. This is not a major championship. So what has he done? in non-majors well tied 12th at the travelers tied 12th at the memorial tied fourth at the truest tied 13th at the rbc heritage it's been quite good that's a guy that's trending on winning he's gained strokes approaching the green significantly more than a shot in every event that isn't a major this year it's been very good iron play for him he's gained strokes uh off the tee in every event since the Players' Championship off the tee. The guy is striping it. And the putter hasn't quite gotten hot yet, but bentgrass is his best surface. I know this is a bentpoa mix, but I kind of like the combo. I'm starting my lineups with Patrick Cantlay this week. All right, Patrick Cantlay,$10,200 on DraftKings. We'll see... how that ownership gets distributed as the week goes on. Okay, we've got Patrick Cantlay. Where are we going next? Yeah, so now in the 9K range, we got a couple of fun ones. We got Harry Hall, who I really like this week. Tied ninth last week. He was tied sixth at the Charles Schwab. Tied 24th at the RBC Canadian Open. There's a tendency in a week like this where birdie average is a pretty strong indicator. You need to make birdies. In fact, go over to my notes here. Four of the last five winners entered the week top 31 in birdie average. But even more, you know, a couple of them were inside the top 10, which I think is a pretty strong indicator. All the last five winners, all six winners, have made at least 23 birdies in Route to Victory here at the Rocket Classic. Harry Hall's fourth on tour in birdie average. He makes a ton of birdies. Part of that is he's the second best putter on the PGA Tour. But the real kicker is that his iron play has just gotten better, and it's unlocked this putting magic. It's turning... Putt in for par and making a ton of birdies because he's hitting it better. T to green. It's his last four weeks and five out of his last six, he's gained strokes approaching the green. So I love Harry Hall. Let me ask you about this question here from the chat because Matthew says, and we're not talking about Ben Griffin, but we have talked about Ben Griffin. He says, are you worried about Ben Griffin playing nine out of the last 10 weeks? Going to be hot here all weekend. He was off June 7th, the week before the US Open. open? Are you worried about that? I definitely take it into account. Somebody else was saying they were worried in Detroit about him possibly withdrawing. Yeah, I'm worried about it a little bit. The thing is that Ben Griffin's pretty used to it. If there's anybody I'm not worried about, it's Ben Griffin. He does this all the time. Only Eric Cole has played more than Ben Griffin, and Ben Griffin has played like Earlier this year, he played like 15 weeks in a row. I just do not care. I'm generally in that camp too. Now, is there a chance that what happened to Jordan Spieth last week happens to Ben Griffin? Yeah, of course. It could happen to anybody. So I'm not overly worried about it. If it were like Scotty Scheffler playing that often, I'd be maybe a little more concerned. Yeah, or like Patrick Cantlay. Or like Patrick Cantlay, who goes from playing 14 times a year, all of a sudden playing 28 times a year. Yeah, Hideki Matsuyama, who struggles with injury from time to time. Yeah, I'd watch it, but not Ben Griffin. We have spent a good bit of time talking about your next golfer here, but I love him, so we're going to bring it back up. It's Max Grazerman. Grazerman, surprisingly, hasn't been putting very well. I know. I think this might be the first time in his career he's lost putting three weeks in a row. And it's been pretty significant. I think that's more of an anomaly than anything else, Rick. I love the way he's hitting it. Three out of his last four weeks have been top 25 finishes. He's been hitting the ball well in all of those. The putter's been letting him down. But I think he's got a really high floor this week. And he can make a ton of birdies too. I think he could win. I think he could too. I think he's just... and this is a really good spot for him. Both those weapons, the rare combination of weapons that he has are both very valuable this week. So I'm excited about Max. Let's round out the last one here. And this one is interesting to me. He was on your board and a newly minted professional. It's Luke Clanton, Greg. What have you seen that's got you excited for Luke this week? Yeah, it's surprisingly nothing new, right? This is more of who he is as a player. So I like him in DFS and I like him in outright markets. I don't trust him for top 10s or top 12. Like he's not a consistent, reliable player. But I think that there's an upside here that could be win any one of these weeks. And this golf course would be perfect for it. because he can absolutely blast it. The putter is very much hot and cold. It's streaky. It struggles. It's streaky. It's struggled. And looking on rickrungood.com over the last 36 rounds, he's way up there in greens of regulation, which I think is pretty important as well. So I could see Luke Clanton putting something together this week, having a great run of it. There's some risk, but I'm willing to take it because I think there's a winning upside. The 8K range are two golfers that have already been mentioned on the show, but I'm interested in your take, particularly on Rasmus Hojgaard, who is first off here, Greg. Yeah, course fit specific. This is a course fit specific, right? I think when you look at Bryson and Tony and Cam Davis, guys who have won here, hit it a really long way off the tee, and even Ricky Fowler is not short off the tee. There's something that driving distance is pretty valuable. When you can hit it everywhere and you can hit it like Rasmus Hoegaard, I think it gives you an opportunity to separate yourself. And in the last two weeks, he's been pretty good with his approach play, much better than of late. And that kind of talent has an opportunity to be on full display this week. So, look, I don't love the 8K range at all. Um, I could see some lineups with can't lay and maybe one of those nine K guys and loading up in the seven K range. Cause I really liked that range. But, uh, if I was going to go in this, it'd be Hoy guard and it'd be Chris Goddard up who I know you'd like to Rick. Yeah. I mean, this is just, this is just, it's great. It's great stuff. It's fan. It's phenomenal. He's been playing. Awesome. Play as well on these grasses. It seems, um, He's got... Two of his last four weeks, he's gained over five strokes off the tee.

SPEAKER_01: 55:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 55:06

Five. And here, he's going to do that again. Yeah, he's building himself a really solid floor with the driver, and he is no longer a one-trick pony. He was kind of a one-trick pony when he won... Did he win Myrtle this year or the year before? No, last year. That's why he's here this week, because he wasn't going to keep his card without it. Right, right. And I thought that that was like, whoa, where did that come from? He wasn't playing all that well before. He's playing much better golf now. Yes. Look, there's like a threshold with these really long hitters with driving accuracy, where if you can hit 52%, 53% of your fairways, and you're hitting a 320, you'll be gaining strokes to the field. You'll rank, you'll rate out pretty nicely in the driving stats. If you start to get below that 51, 50, he was hitting like 43% of his fairways, right? It was not useful distance. He wasn't even beating the field with his driver, despite all that speed. It's hard to do. And he was spraying it, but now he's, now he's got control. He knows where the golf ball's going.

UNKNOWN: 56:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 56:24

The 7K range is becoming more interesting. So we talked about Steven Yeager. We'll probably pass on that for a second. Kevin, you has withdrawn from this event. Oh, he did. Okay. We can bop him out of here, which leaves us with Ben Ahn. And I'm envisioning what Ben Ahn does well and what he doesn't do well. And yeah, I understand why Detroit Golf Club would be a fit for Mr. Ahn here. He's a lot longer than you think. Oh, yeah. He's like a bomber. You may not think of him that way. But I'm starting to see this game round into form over the last three weeks. He finished tied sixth in Canada, tied 14th last week at the Travelers. He's gained off the tee in his last three. Two out of his last three approaching the green. All three around the greens. The putter, which is a problem, has been much closer to even. over the last three weeks. In fact, if you combine the last three weeks, he is gaining strokes. Things are trending in the right direction. So it makes a ton of sense from that standpoint. He also has a tied 13th here. Now, that was back in 2019, but I think his game is in really good form. It's heading in the right direction. Yeah, clearly. I mean, since he missed the cut at the Memorial, three really strong finishes, or at least three strong weeks in a row as you laid out there, Greg. And then if you're looking for value, and this is a guy, you find this guy, you find this guy a lot. It's David Skins. You love David Skins. No, I don't. Yes, you do. Well, I think he's really good, one. He's longer than you would think, because he kind of looks like a You know, like, yeah, yeah. I was going to say like a crafty old fisherman. He honestly does look like a crafty old fisherman. He looks like he should be shucking oysters down on the pier. I actually really like shucking oysters. Of course. I've never done it on the pier, but I've done it and I actually... There's something extremely satisfying about it to me. Anyway, I don't know what to do in this 6K range. It's like, well, the guys that are at 6,800, 6,900, I'm like, I don't really like that. Go down through the whole range. It's like, no, no, no, no. Well, all right. At this point, if I'm going to guess... I better get some real value out of it. So I go down into the mid six thousands. My Kevin, David skins. Oh, you finished tied ninth in Canada. Yeah. Hit it. Great. Hit it. Pretty hit it. All right. At the Byron Nelson. I know that was back in may, but I'm guessing anyway. So why not go to the crafty old fishermen? It's a terrible answer. See if he can catch us a realist in a top 20. That would be nice. All right. Let me do this because that's just a horrible. It's horrible analysis. All right. Okay. Well, while you do that, here's what I'm thinking, though, because you said something that definitely jives with me. I don't want to be in the 6K range. And I think that I'm going to start a lot of my lineups in the 9K range because I also am not super stoked about the... I think I'm going to be piling in 9K guys, piling in 7K guys, not necessarily have to get as deep down the board as I do in previous weeks. Yes. So I want to just throw some 7K names out there. Okay. Just confirm for me, if you will, that these guys are all in the tournament. Okay. Still. Uh, Alex Noren. As far as I'm aware. Yes. I would play him. Uh, Kevin, you is not, he was on my list. He's not play him. Steven Yeager. We talked about in Ben on, we already talked about Emiliano Grillo.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:43

Yes. Right. He's back. He's,

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:45

he's back to being team. No putt. Yes. So I'm, I'm fine with that in the seven K range and real. He sat soon. Hey, Like, there's a lot of upside with him. A lot of upside with him. He's got like top 500. He's like top five upside. Yeah. He was tied fourth at the Valspar, tied fifth at the Valero. And you think that's just tied 10th in Mexico. You think that's kind of like just a nice little hot streak. But he was tied sixth at the Charles Schwab as well. You know, it's happened throughout the entire season. I really like, I think he's worth looking at this week. The nines and the sevens will be my happy hunting grounds for this week. So I, those names that you're throwing out, I'm sure I'm going to have a lot of exposure to it. I mean, I'm, I'm not against the can't lay and sevens can't lay in the sevens this week either. Um, I just think he's going to play great too. We're going to be back on Friday and Sunday this week for the Rocket Classic to make sure we've got you all covered there. We're going to keep an eye out for any other Tuesday field updates. But as of right now, the latest is Finau out, Bramlett in. We'll see if anything else changes today. Greg, anything else before we put a bow on the show? Well, I'm looking forward to seeing, like we talked about, going back to the top of the show. How do these guys that are name brand players, how do they compete in a field like this, on a golf course like this? Can they get some momentum heading into the end of the season and really make this Ryder Cup race interesting? Can they solidify their spots in the Tour Championship, for instance? Which this year, Rick, it's a big deal because all you got to do is get in. And you can win. You're one good week away from winning if you get into the top 30. So it's a big deal. That is a good point. We talked a lot about how it affects, like, Scottie Scheffler. How about guy 30 who now has a real chance of winning the golf tournament? Yeah. Could you go beat 29 guys? Yes. They all can. And if you're 30, you might have gotten in because you're hot. As it is. Right. Right. You play great at the BMW or Memphis or both or the Rocket Classic. So I'm really, this is that time where it doesn't seem like it, but it's crunch time. It is crunch time for the FedExCup playoffs. And so I'm looking forward to those storylines. Do crunch bars crack your top five candies? No. I'm not against them. I like them, but top five is tough. Yeah. Yeah. What's your top five? You know, crunch bars are kind of, I always, they're, they're never as good as I think they're going to be. Oh, that's a great, great endorsement. Yeah. I've always let down by the crunch bar. What's number one? Number one is Kit Kat. Wow. Yeah. I'm not even sure it's close.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:12

What?

SPEAKER_02: 1:04:13

Yeah, I love Kit Kats. I would have Reese's in there. That's the clear goat. It's hard to beat, but Kit Kat beats it in my mind. So those are my top two. You would love, so Kit Kat, when we were in Australia, Australians must love Kit Kat, and they do Kit Kat. I'm not exaggerating. 90 variations of Kit Kats. So it'd be like, I know you're already shaking his head. He's like, absolutely hates this. It's like, you're such, of course, of course, it's like classic Kit Kat guy. But yeah, they've got like every variety of Kit Kat that you can imagine. Of course you hate them all. You don't mess with perfection. Oh my God. Now I'm sure some of them are pretty good. So yeah.

UNKNOWN: 1:05:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:09

Put one in front of me. We'll see if I eat it or not. I'll put some together for you, and we'll do a little taste test at some point. Next time I see you, we'll do a little taste test. All right. Well, we'll be back again Friday and Sunday. For now, big thanks to producer Mina. She does all the hard work behind the scenes. Greg Ducharme. I'm Rick Gaiman. Mark Emmerman. Already out of here. This has been the Second Cut Podcast. We'll catch you next time.