Dave Lundgren: Loveness, AI & Wealth Through Conscious Leadership | Ep 46

What if science and spirituality have been pointing to the same two universal truths all along?

In this episode, Aimee Rickabus talks with Dave Lundgren—transformational coach, real estate investor, former U.S. Army chaplain, and bestselling author of "Loveness"—about the powerful intersection of business, spirituality, and conscious leadership.

Dave shares:
- His journey from military ministry through his "dark night of the ego" to discovering universal laws
- Why Love and Oneness aren't just spiritual concepts—they're backed by quantum physics
- How balancing masculine and feminine energy unlocks breakthrough success
- The 80/20 energy rule: why women need 20% masculine energy to scale their businesses
- Why authenticity beats every marketing tactic
- AI's role in human evolution—and what technology can never replace
- Real estate investing strategies for beginners to advanced investors
- The 4 pillars of business: Marketing → Sales → Fulfillment → Cashflow
- Why selling first and building later creates better outcomes
- How to stay grounded when technology pulls you away from your humanity

With 25+ years working alongside Tony Robbins, Dean Graziosi, and other industry giants—helping build companies generating over a billion dollars—Dave brings rare wisdom on what truly separates those who succeed from those who struggle.

Whether you're building a business, seeking spiritual alignment, or exploring real estate investing, this conversation will challenge your thinking and expand your perspective on what's possible.

🔗 CONNECT WITH DAVE LUNDGREN:
Instagram: @davelundgren
Website: https://dave-lundgren.com
Book: "Loveness" on Amazon

🔗 CONNECT WITH THE MANAGE HER:
Website: https://www.themanageher.com
Instagram: @themanageher
Full show notes: https://www.themanageher.com/podcast

Transcript

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We've been in the moment for too long Welcome back to The Manager, the show where we turn invisible work into visible leadership and explore what it really means to lead with love, vision, and truth. Today, I'm joined by Dave Lundgren, a transformational coach, real estate investor, and bestselling author of Loveness. With more than 25 years of leadership in real estate, and educational coaching, Dave's career began as a U.S. Army chaplain before transitioning into the world of business and investment. He's collaborated with some of the most influential names in personal development and business, including Tony Robbins, Dean DeGrazio, Mark Victor Hansen, and Forbes Riley, helping build and lead companies that have generated over a billion dollars in sales. Beyond his impressive credentials, Dave's true mission is deeply spiritual after what he calls his dark night of the ego. He began teaching a new philosophy beyond mindset, helping others connect to the root cause of transformation and success through love, consciousness, and surrender. Today, we're talking about the forbidden conversations, money, sex, and power, and how love, energy, and frequency are the true forces behind creation. Also, we'll explore how women are rising in this new age of AI, leadership, and spiritual intelligence. So grab your notebook or your glass of wine and let's dive in. I guess let's get into your journey from army chaplain to real estate executive. This isn't a typical one. What inspired you in that transition? What lessons about leadership carried over from your time in ministry? All right, great question. So what inspired me was honestly a little bit of desperation and a little bit of anger. I was stationed at Fort Leavenworth. That was my last station as a chaplain. I was going through a divorce and just the pain of that divorce, which I wasn't expecting or wanting, as I was making that transition, I met a gentleman who was one of the godfathers really of high ticket coaching. So you hear about all these real estate educational companies and such. So I met this gentleman. He's like, hey, I can help you make good money selling real estate coaching. And I was like, point me in that direction because I was fueled by just a little bit of anger, honestly, and just like I'm going to create a new life for myself. So I was really moving away from anything to do with spirituality and just I want to make some money. why I think it worked for me because I was really good at consulting people and whether I want to make money in real estate, I want to lose weight, I want to fix my marriage. The sales process they taught me was really, hey, you're here and you want to be here. How do you fill that gap in? So I became really good at that conversation. And from that, I was able to do well. And then I met Dean Graciosi, who you'd mentioned in the intro and really doing the infomercials with him just opened up all sorts of doors from there. So that's the very quick story on the transition. That's amazing. I had no idea when I met you, I knew we just had this connection with real estate, you know, we both real estate investors. That's like my first love in business was, I mean, I'd absolutely, you know, cut my first tooth on real estate deals. And, uh, so we had that in common and I, just to learn all of this, your interesting history in, uh, your time in ministry and all this stuff. I had no idea. I was just glancing through your book and you actually grew up Mormon. I did born and raised in Utah. Yeah. Wow. And went through that transition. And yeah, I talk about in that book a little bit. I'm more focused and deeply interested in my own spiritual walk, but I'm not necessarily a fan of organized religion per se. But yeah, I was born and raised in Utah, Mormon, went on the mission, all that kind of stuff. I had no idea. I was like, oh, wow. Then to find yourself as a chaplain in the army, I was like, wow, you've had quite the journey. You've described loveness as where science and spirituality converge in the truth. And I love this. What was the inspiration behind that idea? And what do you want readers to feel when they finish your book? Oh, that's a great question. What do I want them to feel? I want them to feel that love. When I say love, capital L, agape, Christlike love, whatever you want to call that. That's what I want them to feel. I want them to feel that. That which created them, which to me is the perfect source of love. And so that ties into what inspired and what is the book about. I found myself going through my dark night of the ego. And despite having... got my master's degree in family therapy, been around the coaching space, helped a lot of people with their businesses and all sorts of stuff, worked for Tony Robbins. I found myself going through a dark night of the ego and I'm like, okay, how did I find myself here? And really for the first time in my life, I truly surrendered and asked for help. And in that transition, as I go deep, I found that what you talked about in that Beyond Mindset, which is really my experience and observation is that most psychology and self-help and religion and personal development really is just focused on symptoms. And it's not till you go all the way upstream to the root cause that Do you really create lasting change for yourself? So I was like, OK, are there universal principles? Are there universal laws that doesn't matter if you're hardcore left politically? You know, you could be an atheist and looking from a purely scientific or atheist standpoint. Are there laws that that individual would resonate with and believe in? Just like somebody on the extreme right, maybe a hardcore Christian or maybe somebody between spiritual but not religious. And so that's what I started to seek for myself. I wasn't looking to write a book. I was looking to disappear. I'll be honest about that. I wasn't looking to do anything other than solve some of the challenges I had in my life. But from that research and from that deep dive and surrendering and really a lot of different research and just a lot of things I did, I found that there were some laws that I believe both sides of the aisle agree on. So again, oneness is one of those. So from a purely scientific standpoint, again, you can be hardcore left, atheist. Quantum physics is really clear that everything underlying creation, they would call it energy. You may call it the universe, but there's this life force. There's something that's the building block of life. So we'll call it energy because that's a quantum physics belief. I'm like, OK, what about the other side? Oneness, right? Buddha, Christ. Oneness is taught from every spiritual master. So there's a oneness from a spiritual perspective. You may call it spirit, you may call it soul, you may call it something else. It doesn't care, but there is a oneness at the highest level that we're all connected to that's underlying everything. So I'm like, okay, oneness is powerful. That seems to be an eternal law and exists in all places, in all dimensions. Are there any other laws? I'm like, well, love. So let's start on the right. Despite religious people killing each other in the name of God for thousands of years, every religion would at least subscribe one aspect or one characteristic of God is love, perfectly loving. On the other side, again, you can be atheist. From a purely scientific standpoint, you can measure their frequency and the beauty of love. And every atheist understands what love is. Again, agape, Christ-like, selfless love. I'm like, okay, well, love can exist in all dimensions. And that seems to be a universal principle. So I just combined them. Love and oneness, loveness. And I would say choice is really the only universal principle. And so from that perspective... I went to go say, okay, if that is true, then the opposite is what's causing the issues. And if it is true, then those laws should be able to help me in every aspect of my life, my body, my relationships, my money, everything should be benefited if I use love and oneness. And that's what the book goes into detail, that your body literally will be much better off, your health, your physical health will be much better if you look through the lens of oneness in business, in your relationships. If you're literally treating that other person as yourself, that is the key to making success in business, certainly spirituality, and then in money as well, which we're going to talk about real estate. But that was the gist of it. And then again, the opposite, it's like a math equation with my kid. If I can teach him a math equation forwards, it should work backwards like in algebra. So if love and oneness really are universal principles that are success principles, well, then separation and division are causing issues. And if I look at the world today, my perception and my belief is that the false sense of separation, that division is what's causing issues, despite all of our different, you know, we're different racially, we're different genders and all those things. And there's beautiful cultural things. But at our core, if we look at those differences as beautiful things, just like nature, right? Nature doesn't lie. You look at all sorts of different plants or trees, all sorts of different species of animals. They're all equal. They're all beautiful. They're just different. And the challenge a lot of times we have with human beings is we look at that separation and the differences as, well, you are separate from me, so I'm going to treat you different. And I believe therein lies a lot of the challenges, which the book talks about as well. If we could, as simple as it sounds, root ourselves in love and oneness, I believe it's a very different world. I'm with you right there. I get it. I totally get it. It's funny, as I was going through your book, I'm like, oh my gosh, there's so much stuff in here that's very similar to some things that I'm talking about in my new book that I'm writing right now. I was like, whoa, Dave, it's Amazing. Crazy. So you mentioned testing two different book covers for this book. So there was Loveness and then there was An Answer. And yeah, there it is. How you're seeing different gender preferences in those two covers. So what did that teach you about branding, identity, and how men and women connect with transformation? That's a great question. And yeah, it's about 50-50 on that Loveness. I all have women like An Answer, Loveness, but almost exclusively men like an answer. So yeah. And we were talking about your book coming out and certainly this podcast focuses on women, but we're different. We're equal, but different. Right. And it's a beautiful thing you know because there's a difference in feminine energy and masculine energy. Again, look at nature. It's just how it exists, right? There's a seed, there's the earth. That's just how it works. So to me in business, um, specifically like when our private private clients come to me, If somebody's got masculine energy, if it's a man and he's a hard-charging male entrepreneur, a lot of the times it's that masculine energy that has got them to a certain part. And then they're about to blow stuff up. That's just typically when they come to me. Because they haven't learned that last piece, the male entrepreneurs that I know that really take it to the next level. Dean Graciosi, Tony Robbins, people like that. That last 10, 20%, whatever it is, it's feminine energy. They get into their spirit, inspiration, inspirato, and their visionaries, and they can tap into that. Conversely, women, a lot of beautiful, feminine women, artistic women, whether they're a hair salon person, or I just want to do energy work, whatever it is, there's a lot of times amazing in that and they stay in their feminine energy. But if they can't figure out that masculine piece, that discipline, that structure, typically their business struggles. So there's different energies. And I think you can tap into both in business. I try and find balance. And I think we're all on a spectrum and a continuum, you know, and some people are way over here and some people are over here, but that's My best, when it comes to business specifically, masculine and feminine energy, that's typically how I approach it. And the lens I look through when I'm trying to deal with somebody. And if you look at spirituality and science, you can even look at those as masculine and feminine. Or we were even talking about like indigenous wisdom versus like Western and technology. I think there's a balance there. So I always try and look at things on a continuum and try and help people balance it out. Because if you're on the extreme of anything, typically something's not going well. Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah. And I love that. When we talked earlier, we were talking about how it's like 80-20 rule. So like if you're man, it's 80% masculine, 20% feminine. If you're a woman, you know, that 80% feminine energy with that 20% male energy to help ground you a little bit there. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It was like, that really makes sense to me. It was when I was telling you that story about back in film school when I met Haskell Wexler and he looked at me and said, Hey, Amy, Women just need to learn how to tell stories and be filmmakers in their own way and stop imitating men. And it's just resonated with me in every business in my life since that moment in time. I think I was maybe 21 years old at the time. And just a profound mindset shift in me going, oh, okay. So it's cool if we just like do things completely different. Like it's not wrong. No, it's beautiful. And that authenticity, it actually measured up from a marketing standpoint. That is the number one most powerful marketing tool is authenticity. And so if I'm a man and I happen to have more masculine energy and I try and be feminine, that's not going to feel right. People just at their gut level are like, yeah, versus a very feminine person. Authentically, being in their feminine, that's going to resonate. People are going to feel that. They're going to say, oh, okay, that person's, whatever they're doing, it's authentic. Whether they're conscious of it or not, they're going to feel that. And the best, you talk about branding, right? We both know influential people in the marketplace, men and women, And the ones that are in their authentic energy, those are the ones that resonate with whatever their market is, right? Absolutely. You can mix that with a very specific market. It's a big, big blue ocean out there, so there's plenty of... It's amazing. I know. Like I told you, Tony Robbins is totally my Oprah. And I love the way... I just love his energy. I love how he comes across, and he's so confident, but he's so humble. And I just, you know, that's the kind of energy in humanity is just so beautiful to me. And I'm like, oh, I get that. You know, you know authenticity when you see it. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect example. I mean, he's a giant of a man, right? He's a giant in the industry. And when you're in his personal space, even on a very personal level, he's very authentic. He eats his own cookie. You know, he's a human being. He's not perfect, but he's very masculine. His presence is masculine. Yeah. His energy is masculine when he's doing live events, but if you watch an entire live event, you will see him get in his heart. Here, you'll see tears, and that's what I'm talking about. He might be 90% masculine, but that 10% in his heart is beautiful, and people feel that, and that's just Tony being Tony, and that's a perfect example of a dude who can get into his heart and is coming from a place of love, even though the great majority of the time, he's a hard-charging, as masculine as you can get. Yeah. It's neat to see him, how he's able to do that. And so confident, confident enough to do that too. I think it takes confidence, you know? So let's see, you said the root cause of success is love from source. How can someone listening begin to shift out of fear and into that love frequency in their daily life? Great question. And so, you know, people say, oh, everything's motivated by love or fear. I would invite you to consider that everything starts from love and fear is just love looking for a home in a very inappropriate way, right? So whether, I mean, you can pick an extreme example, right? I'm not just using an extreme example to illustrate the point. If somebody commits violence or heaven forbid, rapes somebody, right? Well, that's a horrible act. But if you look at from a level of understanding, like why would somebody do that? Why would somebody lie, cheat, steal, heaven forbid, rape somebody? If you really look all the way upstream, it's coming from a place of I'm not enough. I'm not feeling enough love. There's not enough. There's not enough of something. And so I've got to go out and seek it. So from that place, this oneness, this abundance, this, you know, the quantum field, if you want to call it that, where everything is possible and everything possibly exists. If you're in that realm, you come from a place of collaboration versus competition. And fear is simply, there's not enough. I don't have enough love. I'm not enough. Something's up. And I got to go do something to harm somebody else to try and feel that. So to me, love is at it. originating source of everything and fear is just I'm trying to get there, but I'm not quite there. I'm using less than ideal tools. Because I would also say for years and years and years, especially in the religious world, you see what I would call a lot of spiritual bypassing, like dark is bad, like anger is bad or bad emotions. To me, that dark or those emotions are leading you someplace and there's nothing wrong with being angry or being anxious, but just use it as a guide, right? Yes. Just like If my elbow hurts and I ignore it, it's like, well, no, there's something wrong. Let me get to the root cause of that. So to me, that root cause is I have disconnected from that perfect source of love. What is that? A lot of times it's childhood trauma. A lot of times it's things that have happened. But take the dark. Take your anger. Take your anxiety. Take your fear. And go down that rabbit hole. Go into that dark cave that you're afraid of. And therein lies the diamonds. Therein lies the light. Right? And light will... fix it all but it is not healthy i don't believe to like nope everything's perfect everything's perfect when you know if your house is on fire and your alarm is going off and you're like nope nothing's fine and the alarm's going off and there's smoke and you're just ignoring the smoke and the alarm it's like how beneficial is that go find where the fire is and go put the fire out that's what i'm suggesting absolutely i know i get into this in my new book, too. And it was like don't and we've been taught that fear and pain are bad. Avoid them. Anything that hurts, if you're scared of it, just don't do it. You know, don't go there, get away from it, drop it. And it's like what I've learned and my 47 years on the planet is nope. No, if there's something there, if your shadow, you kind of got to get into your shadow, go in there, bring your flashlight in there, go look under your bed and see that there is no boogeyman there. Because that's the only way that you can push past and actually have a growth mindset in your life is when you push through the things you're the most afraid of. Like, yeah. build muscle, you tear it and you build it. Yeah. And the master taught, you know, bless those that curse you. And I would say that's not just human beings. Those are situations. And Tony talks about it all the time. Oh yeah. What we believe is our worst days sometimes can end up being our best day. And as I look at my life and I deal with clients, so many of those horrible days, divorce, bankruptcy, my kid got diagnosed with autism. I got cancer. You name it. When those you learn, those are life lessons and those become gifts. Now you're turning dark into light. Now you're an alchemist and nothing can stop you. And to me, one of the measures of mastery is how quickly you can recover from a gut punch, whether it's a spiritual, physical gut punch. The masters, it's an immediate, right? Whether it's Buddha, Christ, I mean, Christ is on the cross. Forgive them. Talk about love. Talk about surrender at the deepest level. That's mastery. So whatever is challenging you in your life, whether you're coming into crisis or in the middle of one, I just look at how quickly can you get back to center? How quickly can you get to your true home when those things come up? Because they're going to come up for everybody. That's just life. Yeah, we're going to go through hard times. But the ones who figure out how to take those lessons from the hard times and grow and learn from them, that's how, man, it has been a decade for me of that. And I'm so grateful for all of the pain because it really has made me such a better person. And I'm so, you know, I'm very... I am honored by the experiences that I've been given in my lifetime. Amen. That's a very healthy outlook. I'm like, okay, bring it on. It does make it, the more you go through, the more you have empathy for other people, the more things you can understand. If you've never gone through anything, you're going to have a hard time connecting with people. Yeah. You said empathy, understanding, and that understanding is crucial. I'm like, oh, okay, that person's acting out, whatever they're doing, whether it's a two-year-old, right? We have this empathy for a two-year-old wearing a tantrum. What about a 45-year-old? That's going through a hard time. They're just acting like a two-year-old, but it's like, oh, I wonder what's going on. And if we had the understanding from the highest level, from a God perspective, we would understand why that person is acting out because they're hurt. And they're acting from that place of, I don't think there's enough. I'm hurt. I'm disconnected. And we're all that way. And that does give us empathy. And we can only seek to understand, which would make the world a much better place if we could do that. If I could do that more often. Yeah. Oh, yeah, totally. It's been, that has been a practice of my life over and over and over again this lifetime, for sure. But I think it is, it plays into resilience or resilience of the human spirit too. And resilience is another one of those things that we all, us coaches, everybody talks about, you know, got to be resilient, got to bounce back, got to be willing to work hard, know all of those key terms. And I do think, you know, learning and growing from the dark is a form of resilience too. 100%. Right. So you often talk about men embracing intuition and women embracing structure. What does balanced leadership look like to you, especially in this era of conscious business? Oh, that's a great question. I think it's an extension of what I was saying before, that if it's a male masculine energy leader, it's that because to me in leadership, you know, you have the visionary. So a lot of times a founder of a company or leader, they're visionaries, which is great. Not all the time. We'll talk about the integrator side because that's just as important, right? Walt Disney was a visionary, but he needed his brother, Roy Disney, who was the integrator. Apple dude, you know, jobs needed, Wozniak. So I guess if you're the visionary and that's the, you know, where the people don't have vision, they perish. That's your responsibility. Here's the vision. Here's our why, right? Simon Sinek has a great talk about that. So that's your responsibility to lead from that perspective. And then also, if you're that visionary, also get out of the way and don't, Muddle over here. It's like, okay, I'm a visionary, but I can't do the operational stuff. So let me get out of the way for that. Let me stay in my lane. The book Rocket Fuel is really good about explaining this dynamic. And so whether you consider that visionary a masculine energy or not, I would say that's leadership. But then just as important as recognizing I need that integrated, I need that balance to me, right? Vision and entrepreneurs, and I can certainly look in the mirror and very guilty of this, a thousand great ideas, but there's no implementation, right? So you have to have the implementation, which to me is structure and more of a masculine energy. So to me, that's the balance. You have to have both. And if you can balance those and you find a leadership team that works, and then truly from a place of love and serving, right? Your people, people you're leading, whether it's your family, whether it's your spouse, whether it's your kids, whether it's your business, even if things aren't going well, and even if you have an off moment, if you convey love, and if they know that you are coming from a place of love, that will buy you a great amount of grace. And if you get people bought in that vision, right, they will go through the fire for you. And I've been around amazing leaders and I've watched people. I mean, Tony Robbins, the Steve Thorne guy I mentioned that brought me into the coaching space. Leaders that people will go die on the hill for because they're coming from a place of, here's the bigger thing of what we're doing. Here's our why. And I love you. Now let's figure it out. Because the rest of the mechanics of business, right? I mean, I led business mastery for Tony Robbins and there's mechanics and there's structure to business. But at the end of the day, You've got to have both. You've got to have a heart, vision, love, and then you have to have some structure. Otherwise, you're in deep doo-doo. Yeah, you've got to have operations. Yeah, you've got both. Yeah, and it is, you know, I think that's the hardest part about, I think that might be one of the hardest things for young entrepreneurs to figure out. You know, a lot of times you've got that passion or you've got that idea, you've got that, you know, what would my mom call it? Like a, what's it, you know, you've got this gizmo that you want to sell, but then you don't really have the operational knowledge on, you know, how to file your taxes or all the backend stuff of the other side of the business. Yes. And the great majority of startups, that's the challenge. It's not, oh, we're kicking ass operationally. It's like, no, we got this great vision. I got one leader. That's just the business. We don't have any system. That's very typical for startups. So as you, you know, go from a solopreneur I mean, that first hire should be an admin person that helps you with the operational stuff and then a marketing team. And there's a structure to who you start to add to the team and why you add them. But yeah, that's a very typical scenario that you talked about. A visionary, an entrepreneur that had a great idea that's just running and gunning. And it's like, oh, dude, you don't understand that you pay taxes? Well, yeah, I'm 1099. I don't worry about that. Although there's ways to get out of that too, ethically, morally, and legally. There's ways to... Absolutely. But it's like those, I think that's the hardest part about being, you know, some people come to business and they come to it from the operations side. But I think most people come into business as more of the visionary leader side and then finding that, you know, you're finding your stride with how to manage operations, how to manage employees to help you maintain your books and keep yourself in line with all of the regulations that we have to deal with in our different states. I'm in California. That one's a tricky one. That's a different country. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So it's, you know, it is a different country for sure. So let's talk about AI. What does the fourth industrial revolution mean for human evolution? What do you think? Great question. I was having this discussion actually with one of my daughters who's a beautiful, empathetic soul. And she was worked up because of what AI is taking from the environment. And I encouraged her to take us back because technology has been that, right? So I'll start with the Pony Express, newspapers, radio. TV, internet. Technology has been there. Now, for sure, technology is ramping up. It's just dramatically accelerating. AI is an example of that just going berserk. But from a historical perspective, technologies have existed. The challenge we're having now, I believe, is somewhat of our spiritual or emotional growth is so far behind the technology growth. So now we're up here. And between technology and social media, they're amping things up. Right. The separation and division. And so AI, to me, if it remains a tool, it's a very powerful tool. And if it helps get those mundane tasks out of the way. Right. Let's take example of a visionary. Somebody's writing a book or if I can offload and this goes back to unique ability. Dan Sullivan has a great mastermind and he taught us this unique ability is where you're making the most money, but you're in. your unique ability that fires you up, that gets you excited. That's where you need to stay. Well, you know, if you're an author, that's you writing the book. That's a creative force of that. Everything that's not you writing the book, you need to get rid of. Well, AI can accelerate that and help you stay in your unique ability. And so I see AI as a very, it's a great tool. I think it's bringing in like even more challenges, just like the internet brought challenges. But I just see it as a continuation and an extreme example of technology continuing to go up. But at the end of the day, the human spirit and there are things that AI can never do. And so if you're looking at the marketplace, okay, you want to make yourself valuable, use AI as a tool. And then what are some things that AI will never replace and how can you become more valuable in the marketplace and then use AI as a tool? Like with real estate, we were talking about, I see it as a great tool to help with that. AI is very helpful when it comes to writing or social media. So To me, that's the key. Just have it take more things off of your plate so you can stay in your unique human ability and let it remain as a tool and don't think of it as anything different than the next latest and greatest technology. And it is at a whole nother level. It's pretty insane what it's doing. And to me, it's exciting, but keeping it in its place, I think is important. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that right now with it being more of it's a way to crunch data down, you know, we're calling it AI, but it's more of a data aggregation at this point, what we're calling consumer AI. And I think what people are afraid of is actually a different kind of technology, the AI that's like we've had to destroy once before, one AI that actually was contained in a building. I forget who had it in Silicon Valley, but it started growing. communicating to itself in a language other than the one that we had created for it so that we couldn't understand it any longer. And it had to be unplugged, basically. Well, and to your point, there's conversations we're having now that are moral and spiritual conversations because of AI. And those are the important conversations. Like, how far do you take it? Do you put a chip in yourself? And what does that mean for what decisions are being made for your life? And if you're going to save somebody's life because you can pre-diagnose them on a health thing, is that the right thing? So those are you know, discussions that are coming up and becoming real. And again, that goes back to our emotional and kind of spiritual development being so far behind technology in my observation. Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. I had a guest on recently. This is actually her area of expertise is actually, she says the issue with AI isn't the technology, it's the getting the people to get behind, you know, getting the employees to not be afraid of the transition, not be afraid of the change, to embrace the technology, to learn how to use these new tools because they are accelerating so quickly. It's happening so fast. And even culturally changing our thoughts on what work is. Like, I can see a world where AI is taking over so many mundane tasks. It's like, I've got free time now. I don't have to go work a 40-hour work week. Why do I need to do that? Why do I, like it's been scientifically proven over, I think it's $50,000, $60,000 a year. There's no difference in somebody's happiness level Right. So why am I filling that up with more time and more money when it's like, I've got some free time now. Where am I going to go? Let me go walk in nature. Let me go spend some time with my loved ones. To me, that's the opportunity we have with AI to cut out some of the mundane stuff. Yes. I've got more time to breathe. I have more time to connect. But we have to take those opportunities. Otherwise, you will be ready player one. You're locked into technology versus like, let me unplug for a little bit. And let me go get in nature. Let me go put my feet on the ground because that's been proven to scientifically reset your body. Let me go spend some time meditating. Let me go to church, temple, synagogue, whatever that is. Go serve. I've got a little more time. Let me pour into a church or a charity or a community. So what do you do with that free time you're freeing up? Well, hopefully you use it to be more human. Not less human, right? And I think that's what a lot of the women on my show that I've talked to, we're all talking about how we can use this new time that we have to connect with each other. Maybe we get to spend more time with our friends. Maybe we get to spend more time within our community, leading community events or getting, we are definitely getting more involved with nonprofits. I can see women in general, you know, as we're able to automate some of these tasks already, I do see that that is something that's happening. And then you're like, oh. Yeah. Yeah, I think the Maha movement is partially, you know, AI kind of helped, you know, the Maha moms to have the time to get involved with a lot of, you know, helping to make some healthy changes in America. Yeah, it's interesting. I wonder, you know, from will they ever study it? I don't know. Find out. It's fascinating times. It's so interesting. So what do you think? Do you think that technology and consciousness can coexist without losing our humanity? Yeah, great question. Quick answer, yes. Because I think there is, there's a material difference in human consciousness. I don't pretend to understand it, but a plant has life, an animal has life, but there's a different level of consciousness. We're able to think about thinking, there's a meta cognitive level. And so that piece of humanity, I don't see AI doing. being able to replicate that. Whether you're a person of faith, you believe in God or not, there is an essence, there's an underlying infinite intelligence that is human, and that's the piece that AI can't get to, I don't believe. Just like a plant or an animal comes off of instinct, as much as they're living, beautiful creatures, and there's a spirit to them, and we're one with them, and in a sense, that level of consciousness is different for a human being. And to me, that's the distinction. There's an enmity between human consciousness, the divine that's inside of us for whatever reason compared to other living beings. Yeah, I totally agree with you on that because I don't think that our artificial version of intelligence carries the same energetic spark. No, you're just not. You sit in the room with somebody who's got beautiful energy, it feels different. I may be inspired, I may be awed by IEI and I love it, but you sit with another beautiful conscious being and look in their eyes and and see the divine inside of them looking back in you, there's an energy, there's a spirit, call it whatever you want. I've never felt that with any kind of computer. Nope. Agree with you on that. Definitely. So let's get into real estate a little bit because I mean, your knowledge based on this one's amazing. So you've helped thousands of people find freedom through real estate investing. How do you see real estate investing, not just as a business, but as a spiritual and creative act? It's a big, That your business is a spiritual game because it's there to alleviate pain when it's done well. So real estate is a beautiful vehicle to create wealth. That's just been proven. So that's how I see those things. Kind of like we were talking about. You free up your time with AI. Cool. What do you do with that? You free up your time with real estate. You make money with real estate. What are you going to do with those resources? And so I love real estate. It's been good to me. And to me, I kind of categorize things into three different areas. I'm a beginner. I have no credit. I don't know anything. How do I get started in real estate? I got a little bit of money, a little bit of credit. I've done a couple of deals. And then there's a third category of people like I have more money than I know what to do with. I don't want to pay taxes and I don't want to swing a hammer. I want to pass it. And so I've become an expert at all three of those different levels, but I really deep dive into some of, Hey, where are you at on those? And then based on, I don't try and shove everybody into one box based on where they're at. Hey, let's find a solution. I'm actually, for the first time, I've been the guy behind the guy and, um, and all these billion dollars in sales and all of done thousands of real estate deals, but I'm actually launching my own product. I'm partnering with some guys on a real estate offer that I'm excited about because it speaks to that level one person. You could have no money, no credit, know nothing about real estate, and we're solving a massive problem, which is affordable housing, rent through the market, what's called steel framing versus wood framing. That's the quick. In other countries, they're using it 50% of the time. In the US, it's less than 1%. It's 30% cheaper, 40% stronger, cuts insurance 40%. You can frame up house and things like there's Logically, there's no reason. So we're taking that to the marketplace and we're giving people the opportunity. Hey, again, you can know nothing about real estate, but bring builders to us, bring real estate investors to us and just ask them three simple questions and we will take and solve that problem. So it's a trillion dollar problem we're solving. And I love it because we're going to save millions of trees. It's a better product and it's going to help the affordable housing issue. And so that's actually a product I'm taking to the market because... It could help anyone at all three of those levels. And then from there, okay, maybe a little bit of money. Oh, I want to go full-time. And then it's just business 101, right? Okay, how do you teach somebody to turn it into a business? And then what do you do with your money? How do you invest that passively so you don't have to pay taxes and you can make money off of your money? Because real estate in a very simple, like if you just own a piece of real estate, comparing that to any other investment, commodities or stock, you get four returns on every dollar you invest. Stocks don't do that. A lot of these don't do that. And so a good piece of real estate with a good team and the right location, you have to do it right. But if you've done your due diligence and you've got a good asset, I don't care if it's a single family home, a duplex, self-storage, a tiny home, apartment, if it fits those parameters, that asset will create cash flow and continue to go up. And historically, it's just been proven, that's how you can become wealthy versus stocks go up and down and, oh, the stock market crashed in 2008. That's a very long-winded answer to real estate, but I'm very biased. I love to help people that have hunger and passion. No matter where they're at on that real estate cycle, you can help them out, and it's been good to me. So I love it as a business. I do too. I do too. I know. I spent a good decade of my life as a real estate professional, and I really loved the amount of freedom that I could create in my life. With real estate, it was really, for me, I thought, wow, especially as a young woman in my 20s, to be able to create that amount of wealth for myself and that kind of freedom. And my friends didn't have the kind of time I had. Yeah. You can leverage your money, use the bank's money, leverage your time. Yeah. Although Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad, Poor Dad is a phenomenal book on just the mindset. Yeah. So the techniques and strategies are there. I get passionate about those. And this new thing we're taking to the market, I'm excited about. But My passion really is this beyond mindset. Like, okay, why does one person sign up for coaching and become wildly successful and the other person doesn't? I love that conversation just as much as, oh, here's something cool. We're solving a trillion dollar issue. In fact, today, my social media feed was blown up. Trump announced he's going to not let hedge funds buy houses. Whether that happens or not, I'm like, I've got a better solution for affordable housing. And I'm excited because the market is ripe for what we're doing. And that kind of innovation feeds my passion. entrepreneurial spirit. So I'm excited. I love that. It's a big problem. You know, affordable housing in America is a huge, huge problem. And it's really cool that you're, how can people learn more about this opportunity that you've got? Yeah, reach out. I mean, yeah, you'll promote my socials. Just reach out to me personally. We're going to be, I'm going to be doing a webinar here in a couple of weeks. Cool. Yeah. But across the board, we're going to save 10%. A builder can save 10%. And that's huge, right? Just imagine house prices dropping 10%. And then the owner is going to pay 40% less insurance. That's thousands of dollars over time. So those are just two quick ways we're going to help the market. So yeah, if you reach out, happy to talk about that opportunity. Again, whatever level you're at. I don't know anything about real estate. Oh, okay. Just feed us the deals. Ask a builder, hey, do you use wood or steel? I use wood. If I could save you 30% on your, oh yeah, okay. All right, watch this video. I mean, anybody can, VAs can do that. We're having VAs reach out. So again, at any level, I'm happy to help somebody with that. Or if that's not the right fit, There's a lot of other, again, for 25 years, I've done a lot of other types of real estate. And I really do believe in, okay, let me understand your situation. Why is it different than somebody else's? Somebody that's 85 and their big thing is I just want to leave money to my kids and their trust and I don't want to pay tax. That's a different conversation than a 25-year-old that has no money, no credit. Those are two different people and they should have two different strategies when it comes to real estate or any kind of wealth, in my opinion. So I love those conversations with people. That's amazing. Yeah. Thanks, Dave. You're a huge resource for our community on this. I appreciate you being a part of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's nice to have our real estate guy who's been around the block. No pun intended. Yeah, literally. So you've been part of some of the biggest stages in the world. Tony's business mastery, Dean's programs. What was it like being part of that ecosystem of transformation? And what did you learn about scaling impact? It was amazing for a lot of different reasons. And even looking back, I didn't fully appreciate some of it. Being around people like that, like I'll take Dean because I have a long standing relationship. I mean, we were tight 2005 to 2015. We're doing all the infomercials and just watching him evolve as a person. Right. John Maxwell's laws of leadership, 22 laws of leadership. Law number one, law of the lid. The leader has to expand. Dean is an example and Tony is an example of people who had to expand themselves personally. They've been through stuff. They've been through the boards. They've been through turmoil. So being around people like that, and a lot of it's like being in masterminds, being in networking groups and being around like-minded people that are inspiring you. So I've enjoyed that on a, on a personal level. And what was the second part of your question? And then what did you learn about scaling impact? Yeah. So scale, I mean, at the end of the day, right, business is pretty simple. It's, Marketing, then sales, then fulfillment, then cashflow. Well, the marketing sales piece, you talk about scale, right? Learning that marketing piece, getting the phone ring, getting somebody's eyeball. That's the most crucial skill out of any of them. All right. So if I was going to tell somebody, even if you're not going to end up being the ad copy person, understanding marketing and entering the conversation that's in the marketplace, right? Like I'm excited about this still framing because it's the conversation in the marketplace and my brain goes to, okay, what's the problem we're solving? And if you're thinking in those terms, how can I love the market? How can I serve the market? What is the problem I see? What is something that's breaking my heart? How can I go solve that? That's going to be your marketing conversation. Now there's frameworks and there's actual marketing is a skill. You can learn that. So I would say you want to scale. It starts with that, right? Because you can have the best product in the world. I partnered with another guy, great human being, excellent product, a product I love very much, undercapitalized and didn't have the right marketing, that product sits on the shelf, right? Versus I'll tell you an insider secret. And when we were doing the infomercials with Dean, we would film 10 to 15 infomercials with different books and we'd test them. And whatever book did the best, okay, that's what we're going to go with, right? In today's world, for hundreds of dollars, what costs us tens of thousands of dollars, you can test different hooks and you can do different. So to me, marketing is the thing. Enter the conversation. What is happening in the marketplace? Where are the pain points? And then There's a lot of different techniques and strategies and books and people you learn from the marketing. And then it's sales, which is influence, right? And people that are anti-sales. Well, let's use the word influence, right? We're all influencing. You want to influence somebody and Mother Teresa, Jesus Christ, Martin Luther King. These people had influence, but they were coming from a place of belief. And when you get to the place where it's like, I am doing you a disservice. If I don't put my book in your hand, people feel that back to that authenticity. So to me, that's the core sales. But again, you can train yourself. sales. And you can even outsource that to people. So, and then fulfillment, like we were talking about, that's our operational side, right? Okay. We can market, we can sell, but if we're not fulfilling and doing a good job there, it's going to fall apart. And then certainly the cashflow, we're not tracking our books. So those are the four simple pieces, but in that order, sell first, fulfill later, right? Don't go build it and expect people to come. No, sell. Oh, the market wants that. Okay. Let me go build it real quick because I just blew the doors off of my marketing campaign. That's a much better problem than I got more leads than I know what to do. If the market really likes this, let me go build a product versus I built a Rolls Royce. Nobody wants it. So do it in that order. I love that. That's great advice, Dave. That's the opposite of the intuition, you know, especially the young entrepreneur's intuition for sure. Yeah. And my beautiful sacred other, she's a doctor, chiropractor, and she's very feminine. She just built an amazing product. She's like, well, the market didn't like it. I'm like, how much time did you spend? And she spent hours and hours. And I was like, did you test the market at all? And she was just like, wouldn't people want that? I'm like, so yeah, it's, and i've done that for sure. Oh yeah, for sure me too oh yeah that's part of that's part of uh learning through living. Yeah. You know, only sell something again that you really believe in because that the market will feel that too. If you don't really believe in what you're doing, it's like, yeah, but you got to have the capital. You're right. You got to have, you can't be undercapitalized either. If you're going to, especially if you're going to take a real product to market. I think that was one of, as a younger entrepreneur, that was one of the things when I took my first product to market, I did not have enough capital. And I think, you know, I had a hundred thousand, I needed a million. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, ah, that would have been, that could have made a big difference in how, how much impact that product could have made. I did okay, but I think I could have, you know, done a lot better. Yeah, and even a business coach can help you with that. Like, okay, your fulfillment is physical product. That's a different conversation than my fulfillment is not, right? And somebody can walk you through, ooh, your cost of goods sold, and you actually have a physical product. Yeah, that's a million dollars you got to have in the bank, not a, oh, I'm selling a digital course online. That's a different conversation. Yeah. Yes, physical products are expensive. It's mostly marketing. And then, you know, if you're going to scale up having a physical product, one of the things that we looked at was going into Target. And it was like, it's going to be so expensive because you don't realize when you put a product in Target, you're on consignment. Yeah. They're taking the majority. Yeah. They've established a platform. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Or Starbucks, you know. Yeah. There's a lesson in that too. There's a power and heavy in that platform. And I think that's where AI is going. Back to what, talking about AI. Yeah. It's going to where everything's going to be free. I just believe that, right? Because... Facebook taught us it's the eyeballs and attention that they're monetizing. Facebook gave away a platform for free because they wanted eyeballs and they monetize that. AI is going to commoditize everything, right? CRMs used to be expensive. Websites used to be expensive. All of that is getting commoditized because now everybody just wants people on their platform, right? Because whoever controls the eyeballs, whoever has the platform, they're going to win. It's- It's so true. That's very interesting. Yeah, that's going to be, it's going to be a very interesting, I think the next, you know, four years, everyone said that this massive amounts of transformation is all going to happen between now and 2030. So it's going to be interesting to see, you know, it's going to be a fun ride, but I think as long as humans can stay and continue to use their free time to be more human, to stay grounded, keep your feet on the ground, touch grass, literally go out. I just did it right before this. I was working on some business stuff, amped up and excited. I haven't eaten, which my inner ring fasting, I get a really good state. I get a life state, but I get amped up. I'm like, let me go put my feet on the ground. Let me just ground myself. So my energy is not too high. That's awesome. I know we just got this really cool Bexley harmonizer for our house and just have it sent to the Schumann residence right now, which is the frequency of the earth. And it is next level, dude. I love it. I absolutely love it. I just want to sit next to it. Yeah, because we have energy. We're all energetic beings, right? Yeah, it's so cool. Anything you can do to regulate your nervous system and yeah, that's a beautiful thing. It really is so cool. Every once in a while you find some new tool to just make yourself just feel a little bit more human because our frequencies are being disrupted by all the microwaves in the air. The frequency of the earth is being disrupted. And so if you can find a way to... Yeah. Yeah. Find a way to, to re you know, and that's take your shoes off and touch the ground and you'll retune. Yeah. Literally. It's a beautiful thing. It's like, huh? Something bigger and more loving than all of us did that for some reason. Thank you. Touch the earth. I'm very grateful for it too. You're amazing, Dave. It has been such a powerful conversation, bridging business and divine masculine and feminine and, reminding us that real success begins with love. To connect with Dave, visit www.dave-lundgren.com or grab his book Loveness on Amazon or his website. And you can also follow his work on leadership, spirituality, and wealth creation through his Beyond Mindset coaching and retreats. And if this episode resonated with you, share it with another woman who's redefining leadership on her own terms. I'm Amy Riccobus, and this is The Manager. Until next time, stay rooted in love, aligned in purpose, and ready to manage what truly matters. Thanks, Dave. Thank you.