The Book Midwives Who Birthed My Book (And Changed How Women Write)

What if writing your book was never meant to be a solo act?

In this episode, Aimee Rickabus talks with Dr. Shana Hartman and Dr. Cindy Urbanski—the "book midwives" behind The Manage Her book and founders of Synergy Publishing Group—about why writing is an embodied act, how to honor your unique creative process, and the messy magic of birthing a book in community.

Shana and Cindy share:
- The question that anchors every manuscript: "What absolutely has to be in this book?"
- Why women write differently—and how to honor your process (even if it means talking your book into your phone)
- The story behind Synergy House, their retreat property where authors are cared for while they create
- What Rebel Writers is and who it's for
- Why you may have already written a book without realizing it
- The emotional transformation from "I can't share this" to "This is what I do"
- What to expect from their breakout session at The Manage Her Conference

Whether you've been dreaming of writing a book for years or just felt the first tug—this episode will give you the permission, strategy, and spark you need.

🔗 CONNECT WITH SHANA HARTMAN:
Instagram: @synergypublishinggroup
Website: https://shanahartman.com/

🔗 CONNECT WITH CINDY URBANSKI:
Instagram: @cindy_d_urbanski
LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/cindy_d_urbanski

🔗 CONNECT WITH THE MANAGE HER:
Website: https://www.themanageher.com
Instagram: @themanageher
Full show notes: themanageher.com

Transcript

0:01

Thank you. If you've ever dreamed of writing a book, this episode is for you. Today on The Manager, I'm sitting down with the two women who helped me bring my book to life, Dr. Shaina Hartman and Dr. Cindy Urbanski, founders of Synergy Publishing Group, my publishers, my creative partners, and the true book midwives of The Manager. Welcome back to The Manager podcast, the show where we turn invisible work into visible leadership. I'm your host, Amy Riccobus. Working with Shaina and Cindy was one of the most magical experiences experiences of my life. I flew to a lake house in North Carolina, and we spent the entire weekend eating, talking, doing yoga, laying in the sun, and spreading printed pages across every surface. And then they asked me the question that changed everything. Amy, what absolutely has to be in this book? That one moment anchored the entire manuscript. Since then, Synergy has grown in extraordinary ways. From purchasing their own retreat property, the Synergy House, to launching their powerful new program, Rebel Writers, designed for women creating from fierce alignment. And because they're writers themselves, their coaching hits differently. Shaina's new book, Shit No One Tells You About Starting an Online Business, released on January 11th of 2026. And Cindy's new book, Your Aligned Girl in a Crisis, A Practice in Not Borrowing Trouble, arrives on February 6th. You'll also get to meet them both in person at the Manager Conference in Las Vegas on March 13th through the 15th, 2026, where they'll be joining me as panelists and breakout session leaders. These women don't just publish books. They birth movements, legacies, and voices the world needs now. So let's dive into the truth, the embodiment, and the fiercely aligned creation behind writing transformational books. Ladies, thank you so much for being here today. Shaina, Cindy, you guys are awesome. So I wanted to start back at my beginning, I guess. So I wanted to start with our retreat in North Carolina. Can we talk, walk the listeners through that weekend, the food, the yoga, the pages everywhere, and why this intuitive process works so powerfully for authors? Oh, man. It's fun to think about just that particular retreat, but Cindy and I's history with the vibe and the way that we approach a moment and experience like that goes, oh gosh, are we going like 20 years plus back now at this point, which is awesome and amazing and doesn't make us feel old at all. But Cindy and I both have always from our K through 12 teaching days to our university professor days to our now supporting amazing women like you days, writing is an embodied act and it sometimes to be in community and presence with others and so that retreat to get into our body using Cindy's amazing yoga experience as well as her amazing nourishment that she provides and then just to be connected with others who are struggling and figuring it out and letting it be messy with their words at the same time as you experience like that's where lots of fun magic can Absolutely. Lots of fun magic. I was just so surprised. And for me, it was this stark contrast between like a publishing house in New York City where you're in some tall building in some office with some dude. And instead, we're like in a retreat house at a lake house, sleeping in the same house, eating food and just communing together the way that we were doing work in the way that women do work. And I recognized it and I saw it right away and it was so aligned. And so such a big part of my mission is just to remind women that it's okay to do things the way that we do things. And I think you said it best last night, Amy, when we were on a call and you said something about my hair being longer and I said, no, it's just not in a ponytail because that's the way we work. That's the way women work. We pull it out of our faces. We At that retreat, we were in yoga clothes or pajamas most of the time. And we were making serious, serious words happen on the page to influence the rest of the world. It's just amazing to see the way that women are transforming the way that they work and honoring themselves in such intuitive ways. And I've absolutely see you guys for doing that. Thank you for doing that. You two are true book midwives. I say that because i'm a home birther and i'm like, I couldn't birth without my midwife and i couldn't have created this book without you guys. So from my personal experience, I just, I'm so grateful for the way that you guys are able to become a home for women who are writing their truth and their embodiment and their legacy. How did you guys get here as synergy publishing Group? Well, as you said, it goes way back and we were writers and teachers together first. Sydney and I met at the Summer Institute for the National Writing Project, which was the start of my PhD program that Sydney then also wound up doing very shortly behind me. But Sydney was leading that particular course and experience and I always think about the book we then wrote together with some other teacher writer friends. And one of the stories we told, which is like fundamental to everything we do, we think we're all storytellers. I think everyone's a storyteller in some way, shape or form and have stories to pass along and share. But we had kind of our initial bonding moment over a day book, which is cow covered meat composition notebook like kindergartners used. And we've used, still use to this day, some version of that. And I was at the time teaching full time, going to school full time and wanting to be as efficient as possible. And so here they come with this gobbledygook in my mind at that time with glue sticks and we're putting things in and it's messy. And I'm like, listen, I got a PhD to get to. Like, can I just be on my computer? Like, I get it. And Cindy goes, you're cute. Why don't you just give it a whirl? Let's just see what happens. Well, many books later, many presentations and workshops and writing opportunities, and now working together as little partners with other people and their words, obviously there was some kind of, okay, I trust Cindy, Cindy trusts me, and kind of the rest has been history. But we've done many things over the years together, but we really got together around helping people with their books in 2021. Um, and that's where kind of my business, my coaching pivoted to why am I not helping people with their writing? Cindy was the first person I thought of to kind of connect with and, um, yeah. What happened next? Yeah. Well, I would be remiss if I didn't say the first book we wrote together was about day books that Shana didn't want to use and how to use them in the classroom. And we bonded again because we both had something going on with our hips. I was a runner and Shana was a college soccer athlete and we could not walk or sit in a chair. So we wrote that book laying on the floor and, in a university office laying on our bellies and Shana introduced me to yoga. That was a long, long, long time ago. And then we got here because we are passionate, have always been passionate about people's words. And something we believe deeply is that when we ask people to write, whether they be our students or someone we have just bumped into who has a story to tell, We're asking them to put their insides on the outside. And we feel deeply honored that people will share their insides with us and trust us with those insides and the way forward. And I think it's that core value of being in our bodies on that floor with our hips, trying to write that book and that connection there all the way to We're going to have a yoga and writing retreat. We're going to do some yoga. We're going to do some writing. We're going to wiggle. It's going to be messy. We're going to spread papers everywhere. I just invite people to make the biggest mess they possibly can in all of their practices. Which is like birth. That's Just like birth. Just like birth. It's a mess. It's a mess. And then you get something beautiful. It's a mess and you're taking over the living room. That was what we were doing. We were taking over the living room just like when you do when you're giving birth at home. It really was. It was the home birth of a book. Yeah. Just like that. And so you feel it in your body. You make a big mess. You need nourishment along the way. And all of those things come together into what we do. just beautiful, you guys. One defining moment of the retreat was when you guys asked me, I think it was you, Shaina, you're like, you looked at me and you're like, what absolutely has to be in this book? And why is that so important for the author to make that decision? We, most of the people we come in contact with, I say this in jest, but they want to save the world or sliver of it, right? In some way, shape or form, they are mission driven people, purpose driven people, thought leaders, no matter how tiny their, their connections or communities are or how large they are, everyone we come into contact with, that's the common thread is the things that they may be sharing about their life and career experiences, their business strategies, their mother-in-laws, their relationships, their poetry, you know, that's hard, whatever it is, it all has some, I've, feel a connection to humanity and I want to have some kind of ripple effect in that. That's the greatest gift that we hear everyone wanting. When you embark on something like a book that's only going between this cover and this cover, to save the world in one said book is quite difficult. And so we excavate as we go. And so you were ready. You had lots and lots and lots and lots of words. And we love that. And that's great. That's what we want people to do versus going in and trying to think we need to know what we want to write before we put the first word down. That's like our biggest myth that we love to bust when people start to work with us. So at that point it was, okay, we have all of this amazing stuff and it may belong in a book, but does it belong in this book? And so that classic Stephen King, time to kill your darlings. Like, yes, you wrote it and that was good. And we're glad you did. And it was for a reason. And does this absolutely have to be in here? Is it absolutely a part of the core message, the core thing you want the reader to walk away with? You know, it supported you and you were like, okay, I have a direction. And so we could more easily like, nope, we're going to save this. And now some things are going into book two, right? And so we don't get rid of anything officially. Yeah. But it's just a nice way to kind of trim the fat and say, all right, what does this really want to be? You've breathed life into this thing and now it's ready to tell you in relationship with you what it wants to be. So I think that question just kind of helps everybody. Yeah, it was major. I was like, oh, what do you mean we can't keep it all, Shaina? I was like, OK, if I have to pick, OK, let me pick. Let me pick my absolute favorite parts. What's the absolute most important thing right now? So we, you guys, Synergy has evolved so much since 2025, especially in the Synergy house. What inspired you guys to create a physical home for writers? I would say, well, it started because we got tired of haunting Airbnb, looking for the perfect writing retreat. And we were like, why don't, why don't we just build one? So we started there and then, um, My husband and I may have gotten up to some trespassing on the property that we now currently own when we saw it online. And it was, we keep using the word magic, but there is something truly magic about this place. We call it the vortex. People get sucked into the vortex because it's heavily wooded. It's on a land preserved so we cannot have a dock there. which seems like we wouldn't want that. But we have so much wildlife, critters. We have chipmunks. We have our own personal chipmunks. We have our own personal deer. We're going to put up wood duck boxes. So there's woods everywhere. It doesn't have a resort feel. It has a back to nature feel, which is what we love and what we love the most about different places. We had used before. So the inspiration came from the places we had seen in the places we had been, and we wanted to capture that experience and be able to offer more of it in a way that felt fiercely aligned for us. Yeah, it's really cool. I remember when you guys announced it to all of us, you know, who was basically like, hey, we've got this house now and we're going to use it and then you guys get to use it too. And I was like, wait, what? Come and throw your retreats. You have a space to do that now. And that's pretty amazing, really, honestly. I think it's another example of kind of just how we like to move and have learned that feels really good for us to move and how... what feels good often to other women as well is letting those ideas, which feels really random. We're staying in these various retreat homes for our retreats. And we're like, wonder if we could have one of these one day. And Sydney and I dreamed and schemed, like we looked at the really, really like all over, like Norman is a pretty big Lake in North Carolina, just North of Charlotte and so much development, so many houses that are gorgeous and beautiful and pristine. And, It was just something where we were like, okay, okay. We see that. We see that. We see that. And then we started looking at land and we got curious and we just kept getting curious. We had zero idea of how, I think that's the biggest thing. Just like when you're writing, we had no idea because no one was sitting there with, you know, necessarily the resources, the time and energy to figure it out. We just were like, this keeps showing up for us. We're going to trust that it maybe is meant to be. We don't know how it will show up. And yeah, Literally, like, we started really, really talking about it and looking intentionally, more intentionally in 2024. And then we found this property as Cindy and her husband. January 2025. January 2025. And the interesting thing that, you know, we could say is random, but we know it's not, is we did not have a retreat planned for this year. We had one last year that you attended. And we said, what if we wait and not have our next retreat until February of 2026 to give space and feel no pressure for us to, because planning your retreat is a big thing, and see where a house might want to show up, like that becomes ours. And we let February 2026 be our first retreat in our retreat house. And here we are. Like it was so interesting that we took the pressure off of us to like give space to it. And it's happened exactly as we said. It's amazing. And I'll be there in February for the retreat. Yay. To finish book number two, because this is how we do it. This is how we do it. It's amazing. It's amazing. I'm so proud of you guys. So you talk about being fiercely aligned, only doing what matches your integrity. How has that shaped Synergy House and the Rebel Writers program? Rebel Writers and Synergy House both came from, we really also want to impact and believe in the power of words. And I truly think we are all messaged beings. I think everyone has something to say, share, write, speak, sing, draw, paint. I think we all have that in us, whether we believe we do is a whole nother thing. And in the K-12 and college classrooms, Cindy and I were on a mission that those humans that walk through our door, that's really what we were trying to do from day one to day, whatever the last day of class was, is to help them believe that they had words that what they wanted to express was important. And so the people, we don't have that fight as much with the people who to us but there is still a level of connecting with people that maybe don't want to publish but journaling writing having a writing creative practice whatever it is is important to them stepping away having some time away in a in a pretty sanctuary you know vortex of chill kind of place is important they recognize that and understand that so rebel writers and synergy house became this space that, yes, are people who are publishing and working on projects that are, you know, going to be publicly out in the world get to come into. And Rebel Writers does have the opportunity for people, if they want to contribute to one of our collaborative books as a chapter or piece, they can, but it's not a have to. I just always felt like there was this other level of of honoring what we feel so in aligned with about supporting people with their voice and just connecting to that and using writing as a tool for whatever else you're doing in the world. So that, those two offers, opportunities, spaces, experience, I think supported that. So that's been something like, and it's still evolving and transforming and growing and telling us what it wants to be but uh cindy these are the things that i wake up in the morning and i'm like, Cindy! We Voxer each other, guys. That's how we do this at the Synergy House. Synergy Publishing is a Voxer. So when you have an idea or you need to talk to somebody, that's the way we get a hold of everybody. So Shaina's just picking up her Voxer to Vox City, right? Diving in. So the only other thing, I think all of what Shaina is saying is perfect and true and we want to honor people's words and meet them wherever they are. That has been our mission. Like Shana said, from the beginning, before we even knew each other, I believe that those were our missions as Shana coached soccer, I coached cross country. In the classroom was meeting people where they are and helping them move in the direction that was already in them, is already there. We're just shining a light on it. And the beauty of Synergy House is that I meet so many women, particularly, who are such incredible caretakers. So they're doing this creative, amazing work while having hands on everybody else in their lives. So they're writing around the edges, which I'm a big fan of. I write around the edges. I get a lot done that way. And there's something special about being taken care of for a minute instead of taking care of somebody else. And so for me, the power in the retreat is we get to take care of you. I don't allow people to do their own dishes. Don't worry. I come home and somebody does dishes for me. It's okay. But in the retreat house, you're not allowed to. Put a dish in the sink or in the dishwasher. You leave it on the table and you want to see some women come apart. Tell them they cannot put a dish in the dishwasher. So we get comfortable being uncomfortable and we dive into that. And that's all a part of this process of feeling our way forward and finding our voices and finding our process in the way we work. Yeah, being cared for, having that space in the retreat to actually let someone else, like Cindy, you cook all this yummy food and you take care of us, you feed us, you know, and then Shana comes around us and gives us the right prompts. And, you know, you guys do kind of work in tandem to coax this book out of us using lots of different methods from like breathing and moving to fasting. eating and resting. It's pretty amazing. It really is. It's a very different process and it's very female. Yeah. We have been known to say, stop writing right now, take that paddle board and go out on the lake and we'll see you in an hour. Yeah. Or go take a nap. I do love a good nap. You guys, I think I did take a nap. Yeah. Yeah. Alone. I mean, if People who haven't taken a nap in like years. It's like, go take a nap. Yeah. You know, six kids. Oh my gosh. When I got, went out for my retreat, you know, I think my baby was, I don't even think he was two years old yet. And, uh, man, it was nice to just get away and take a nap. Honestly, I think that was the first thing I did when I got to the house was actually sleep for like three hours. Yes. Like, okay, let's write a book. But that's the reality. You know, the reality is we are writing around the edges. Like as women, we have a lot of other responsibilities. We're running companies or we're, we have other projects. We've got kids, we've got households, you know, so we are writing. Like I always tell everybody, I wrote my book mostly by talking into the notes in my phone when, because that's when I have time to catch an idea before it flies away like a butterfly. And we love that. Yeah. So I'm now a legacy author writing my second book with you guys, The Potential Equation, which we're looking at releasing on May 1st of 2026. What does it mean to build long-term creative partnerships with your authors? This is another one that came from responding. Cindy and I are both, if anyone in the audience knows human design at all, we're both generators and we can be energizer bunnies and we can just like plow through some work and just put her head down. This was happening even today. And luckily we often take turns. So usually one of us in the go mode and the other is like, are you sure? We generally aren't doing it at the same time. But I share that to say when we started with supporting people with their words, it was a one book at a time kind of situation because that's what felt comfortable for us and what we could feel like we were in integrity to do. And almost everyone that we work with, with one book, as we're writing around the edges and whatnot, other ideas come up and they're like, I've also always thought about this. I've also always wanted to write a book of poetry. I've also got this other thing that's kind of, you know, and so as you are a business owner and you're designing the ways you want to have containers of support, for people didn't feel aligned and not feel fiercely aligned at all to just rinse and repeat the initial embodied writing program that a lot of people came in on. And that was actually before you even came. And we, uh, with you started with our monthly retainer, which is something we do have now for those people who are like, I know I have one. I don't know if I have more, you know, or how that will work. And so legacy author came about and, um, it just allowed, what did you say? So like the exhale, it just allows everybody to just take a breath and be like, okay, it's like coming and staying at grandma's house. Like you're going to be here a while. You're taken care of again, that taking care of like, there's not this go, go, go pressure, pressure, pressure, because, you know, I started here and I've got to finish, you know, my program ends at this time. You're just here. You're, you're stepping into, you know, that authoring and writing and sharing your words is now a part of what you do. And it was just really cool. A responding to, as we are generators, we like, we are meant to respond to wait and respond. And so it was really a response to what we were seeing in our clients. And now almost everyone becomes a legacy author, right? And it's funny because our, one of our earliest legacy, the first two legacy authors is, were trying to save the world with one book, as Shaina said. And I read with the hat and I was like, you have three books here. Yeah. And then there was a panic moment. And we were like, wait a minute. What if there was space and grace to write all three of these books? And it takes as long as it takes. And that felt really... feels really, really aligned and good and comfortable and uncomfortable also because legacy, that's a big word, to step into. And again, we honor the brave souls who step into their legacies and own it. Thank you, Annie. Yeah. I had no idea, you guys, that one book was going to turn into two books as it does. And now when I walk around, I feel in my soul, wow, I'm an author. I write books. I write. I remember when I was in film school, Len Schrader used to always say, Amy, writers write. Len was a writer. He's a screenwriter. But yeah, and so now I feel like I always hear him and he's like, writers write. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. I'm writing all the time now. Yeah. He's in heaven now, but that's huge. That's that ownership. I mean, even Sydney and I published many times over, like to say, I'm a writer. Um, I have books, I'm an author. It's a part of the journey. And I think also one of the things that distinguishes the way we work with people is I always say we coach the writer as a person just as much, if not more so than their words. Cindy is our kind of boots on the ground with the words and we are never, have we ever been worried about somebody's actual words? Like, you know, we come from a world and education and all that, where we're, most people have some stories about writing, you know, in school and red pen and bloody comments all over and whatnot. We all have a little bit of histories around language or just being made aware. of how we talked or whatever it may be. And so the concern often initially comes from, I don't know if I can do this. And Sydney and I, no matter what anyone's background is, like we never have a concern about a book being written. Like the words will come. It may take everybody a different journey, a different timeline, a different process. And part of it is learning what works for you. Like Amy, you know, you're a talk your book out person. You talk a lot to write and that's great. It all counts. But the things, as Cindy said, when you're taking the inside and putting them on the outside, we feel some sort of way about that. Like it's an honor to hold space for that. And there does need to be some support around as your book is about to come out, as you're sending it off to the editor, as you're looking at your cover designs, like so many things, so many emotions and feelings show up. And so that needs to be supported. when you get stuck and you're not sure what to do, it's really not about the words. It's about what something with yourself. And yeah, it's never about the words. Even when people say it's about the words, Shane and I are like, no, it's a very emotional process. And it's funny, but like, even when you finish writing the book and you're just about to publish it. Oh my, that was like, terrifying it was like it was like standing at the edge of a hundred foot cliff and being like, okay, I'm gonna jump. Here we go. But I did. Yes, you did. And we feel that with you. Like, Shana, I'm gonna call her out, is feeling that way about her book. I'm feeling that way about my book. We have done this many times. It feels that way every time. And I need someone to hold my hand. Yes. I think we all do. And I think that's what you guys do so beautifully. And, you know, I didn't have it in my questions for you guys, but your model is so cool because it's this hybrid model. So you as a writer retain all your rights. You guys come alongside us, help us get everything out and then help us format everything and do the cover and help us with all these files and do all this stuff. You guys have the knowledge of how to actually take it from, inside and then turn it inside out and then actually turn it into the digital world that we need to make it into nowadays and you know 2026 so that's you know i wanted to make sure i shine a light on what that process looks like because it's it's really cool that what you guys are able to do like beyond just being the emotional support book midwives that you are having the technical knowledge too um it was pretty impressive very impressed with both of you guys yeah that's been a journey. Our very first iteration of working with people, I did not yet feel comfortable. This was before Cindy and I were partners, but Cindy was one of the writing coaches. I didn't feel comfortable saying I could take people all the way to holding the book in their hand. But I figured it out by doing it myself and, you know, getting support from other people who had done it. And slowly but surely, you know, hiring on our amazing team. Shout out to you. Alyssa and her amazing graphic design work and Taylor, our amazing VA. And it's a team effort to get us there and our various editors that we tap the shoulders of. And we are constantly refining our processes and operating procedures and how we do things as we are learning. We want to make it even more aligned, even more in integrity, but we didn't start there. And, you know, we don't say we can do things that we know we can't do. I think that's part of it, too, is we're super honest and transparent. We're not meant to work with everyone because some people do want the write your book in a weekend, which, by the way, doesn't happen. But, you know, that's fine. I'm glad those things are out in the world because that's not what we do. That's not what we do. And I would never claim like, yes, on a retreat over a weekend can a lot happen. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you weren't holding your book by the end of that. We're proud of what we do. It'll continue to grow and evolve. But yes, a lot of the intention is to take away the veil of that wall of like the techie stuff. And yeah, if you don't want to do it, we can do it. Like we can support you in all of that. And it's great. That's awesome. Awesome. So how do you support writers as they evolve between book one and book two? What changes do you guys see? I see being more in touch with your own process. In book one, your authors are usually, most of them are trying to figure out what the heck their process might be. And by book two, they're like, this is my process. I'm talking my book into my phone. Cindy, I'm going to box you 27 things. Will you put it in the document? And I'm like, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Yes, I would be more than happy to do that because that's your process. That was me yesterday. And then we have folks who literally voice box us their book. And we transcribe it and put it into the doc for us. We have authors who write all the time between their ears while doing their other job. And then by the time it gets to me, I just read it and go, wow, that's really good. They come to a writing day and get it down. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. I mean, everybody's got a different process, I think. And I think that is the biggest evolution that we see is owning the process, being comfortable with the process and being like, yeah, I'm going to talk this whole book. Yeah. I'm going to write this between my ears and you may not see anything from me for three months. And then I'm going to send you 52 pages. Yep. True story. Yeah. You're like. It really is amazing. It really is. And it's so interesting to learn about how, you know, what would you guys say on average, how long does it take for one of your writers to write a book? Like if you had to average it out. About a year. Yeah. Yeah. From, oh, I might write about this to holding it in their hands. Which is fast. It really is fast. If you think about it, and most people just don't know, you know, but like with life and everything, like that is really fast, especially knowing takes a couple of months for the production side of things, like figuring out the interior design, cover design, all of that, and getting it onto the spaces for publishing like a year is, and the writing. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The writing. Oh yeah. The writing. The writing. It really is true about a year. About a year. And our program is designed to support that with the writing days that we have twice a four times a month now we used to have them twice a month now we have four writing days a month sometimes that's the only space people have to put pen to paper hands to keys but in those hours they can because they've been thinking about it they can really crank it out yeah for our ladies listening, tell them about what we do in those writing hours that we have so The original writing days, I was leading all of this. I'll tell you about how I do it. I don't know how exactly. We don't ever do anything exactly the same. But the way I run it, it's a two-hour sprint that we break up into 30-minute chunks. So I come in. I'm a yoga teacher. So we do some grounding. We do some breathing. And then we get rid of everything else. Sometimes we have to make a grocery list or a to-do list of all the things we're going to do after the writing day to clear the space, set an intention that we may or may not follow. And then we'll turn screens off, mute ourselves, and write for 30 minutes. I call time. Everybody comes back on the screen. They look a little wall-eyed because they've been in their books. And I said, does anybody need anything? And nine times out of 10, they're like, we need you to stop talking and let us keep writing. Okay. And we go back and we spread again. So we can usually get three to four sprints in. And then we do a short read around at the end because it's really important to get your insides on the outside and watch it land on another person in this really beautiful, supportive community. And the only thing we say to each other is thank you. Because we want to say, oh my God, that was so good. Tell us more about, tell us a story. I want to hear more. And we don't have time for that because we've been writing. So we just say thank you, do some finger snaps. But you can see on people's faces, like the tears and the smiles and the nods. You can see all of that in the thank you. Yeah, it's pretty powerful. It really is. And also to get to know our other authors on the calls too. It's pretty cool. I mean, there's some pretty interesting and amazing stories women that you'll hop on a call with and you're like, wow, neat. Your book, you know, with all their books and these are published authors too. And it is really neat. I was on a call this week and I was really blown away by the group of women that were on the call with me and the caliber of them, you know, being there to hold space for me as a writer and me to hold space for them. Absolutely. It's part of the networking too, because everybody winds up buying everybody else's books. And oftentimes people grab a couple of copies and just have them. And as they need gifts or one of our clients is a longtime hairdresser and someone comes in and I mean, your hairdresser's like your therapist, right? And so she's like, hold on, I have the book for you. Let me go grab Amy's book. You need to read this. She does it all the time. And And that's a connection that like you couldn't ever make with a, an ad or social media or whatever. And we just love that. That's like what happens. And then also when people get to come together for the retreats, sometimes they've seen each other online and sometimes not. And so you have that beautiful experience, but yeah, I think writing, you know, we look at these polished books on our shelves and we think those writers just went off and just to the ivory tower and did it all by themselves. But we forget that, you know, they were Hemingway was down at the bar getting drunk and telling stories and seeing what landed and right. Like you need community writing is a communicative act. It's literally communication. So we need to do it with other people. And I think that's, that's often people think, okay, let me go off and write my book and then I'll come back to you. And we're like, okay, we'll see how that works. Yeah. It's inspiring, though, when when you're with other people and you see them and what they're doing. It's so true. It really is. As a writer, I feel like I went to film school and they kind of were like, OK, you're going to go write a screenplay. All right, go write it and then come back. So it wasn't this collaborative kind of community together thing that we do now as women. This is a very beautiful and unique thing that we have this community of of of writers that are predominantly female here at Synergy, you know, and it's, it's very beautiful. I think that's one of the reasons why I was able to write the book and why I was able to write it so quickly was being, you know, held in this kind of cocoon of motherly love that is so quintessentially female. Absolutely. Along the way, we have the writing days. That's a great connection. But then also as you're drafting and you've gotten words down, you, our writers ping us and say, Hey, I've written some stuff. I'd love some feedback. And unlike, you know, a developmental editor where you're sending them, you know, big chunks of 20 to 30 pages, they go and just comment all the way through it. And then you're left to digest that all by yourself. Our process is we want to give you reader feedback along the way. So Cindy or I are in there going at a girl. Yes. More of this, or hold on. I got a little confused here. Can you, you know, explain a little bit. So, uh, I think that's another thing that we, we really are. I mean, I call cindy boots on the ground. Like she's really in the trenches and we're really understanding and getting to know your words again, right alongside with you versus going off by yourself, giving, you know, things. And it's just, there's no connection to it. Like we want to be connected to you the entire time. Well, as I was working this week with you guys, man, I realized I'd speak the words and then go home and then the thing would explode in my brain in the middle of the night. And I'm like, oh, you know, just getting a tiny bit of feedback. Whoa, no way. That's what that is. You know, it's like you're on an idea, but sometimes you need a little feedback to finish and complete the thought all the way. Absolutely. Writing does not happen in a vacuum. Yeah. Yeah. And you need questions and we don't know what we don't know. And we fill in things when we're telling a story or sharing an example, because we've lived it, we've experienced it. We can read our words and there could be things kind of missing, ideas missing, but we won't see them as a writer. You can't see it often in your own words because your brain will fill in what's not there. Like you're like, yeah, that, yeah, that totally makes sense. So having that outside reader, you know, along the way, we have multiple layers of that in our process to support our clients and their books to go, Hey, wait a minute. You kind of left me behind. You were, you know, talking about apples and now we're talking about monkeys. How did we get there? Totally. Yeah. It's such a gift because you're like, Oh, I didn't even know I did that. Right. And that's okay. That's okay. Like, yeah. Yeah. The outside reader is essential, right? to making a book, to writing a book that actually makes sense. Because it's nice because you guys are there to go, okay, wait a second, tell me a story right here. Or, okay, I see where we're going with this, but I'm not quite making that connection yet between this chapter and that chapter. Can we tie it together? Can I get a little more information here? Can I get a story that ties this together here? And it's just amazing to have. I'm working through it right now on this book and it is so much fun to get my homework and know exactly right where I need to write, where I need to fill in the blanks, what I need to change up and add. It's pretty amazing, you guys. It really is. And it is like so valuable. I want my listeners to understand that it's so important to have a publisher that can see the entire ecosystem, the writing, the coaching, the design, the production, the distribution, the branding, and the legacy that goes into a book. And yeah, tell me about how the heck did you guys figure it out? Because you guys are the whole package. Yeah. We built the plane while we were flying it. Didn't we all? We're still building the plane while we're flying. Yeah. Yeah. I think legacy out there is a part of that is you're not, the words are, I always use the tree analogy a lot, the visual of the words are either a branch on the ecosystem of the tree or they're the trunk, the groundedness, the roots behind they're connected in some way and it's not, I'm going to go off and out of my life and what I'm doing to write a book. It's, this is a part of who I am and how I am. And so as I'm working with my clients or trying to get my business off the ground or trying to pivot from being a teacher to owning a business or whatever my next steps are, words support you in that, whether it's your morning writing time or the, the pages in the book, like it's all, we just see it all connected. And the, the financial piece, like we want you making money. Yes. From the book sales, but it's the gateway that that book provides. That is the magic because most of us are not going to make a huge amount of money. There is money to be made from book sales. Yes. And it is the street cred. It is the, Oh, I read your book. Oh, I saw you had a book and, there's just, it's, it's a commodity still. And I, it forever will be no matter whether, you know, we ever lose print books. Like even if it's just an ebook, I shouldn't say just or audio books, it all is people understand inherently the energy and effort that it takes to create that. And so there's automatically like a, Ooh, let me learn more. So whatever you're putting out in the world is, I really don't see how a book can't support that in some way, shape or form. And most of us who are out there putting ourselves out there doing business, making offers, have products, sales, whatever it is, you probably already written a book in some way, shape or form. Like you have so many word assets that you, you know, you, you don't even know. We, we published a book recently, uh, that was all from actually two books now. We're all from our author's social media, the stories they had been telling and sharing in their social media. And we just help them go and grab it and then put it together and do some things. And they have a book. Oh, my gosh. Can we get a shout out for that book? What's it called? Stories from the Schoolhouse is one. Amanda says it. Yeah. And it's so cute. I love the cover. It's got pencils for those of you who can't see. It's very teacher. And it's hysterical. Yes. And then most recently, Dr. Tiffany Ryan, Noah Grant's Hope. 231 Days of a Mother's Transformation Post-Lifequake. And these were both started from their social media. Amazing. We'll put the links in the show notes for you girls in case you want to check those out. It's very inspiring that you may have already been writing a book with your social media. Yeah. Like you may have already been telling your story enough that it's going to be a piece of cake to put your books together. So why the heck not? It's at least a starting point. It's at least a recognition that you know how to put words down. You have a process of some sort and it's not a big leap, especially when you have support. So you guys are both going to join me as panelists and breakout leaders at the Manager Conference in Las Vegas. And that is March 13th through the 15th of this year. So what can attendees expect from the conversations and deep dive sessions you'll be offering? That's an amazing question. I know one thing we'll do. We'll make a mess. Yes. Yes. Honestly, just knowing Cindy and I, you'll probably have a walk away, one with lots of words. You'll be surprised. You'll surprise yourself at how many words you walk away with in a very short amount of time and clarity on what your book or, you know, big project that you want to put out into the world, what it will be. And so it's really fun to think about how we can, you know, like what's possible and in that short amount of time. Um, so it will be messy. We'll let it be messy and it'll be, let's see what we can get down and what we can get clarity on. And Cindy and I love giving are really good at giving feedback, like literally looking at in the moment and giving feedback and saying, how about this? How about that? Um, so all of, all of the above, I can promise that we will meet you right where you are. Yes. And let you tell us where you want to go. and help you figure out what's supportive to get you there. Yeah. Yeah. Affirmation. I can guarantee that's what these ladies can do for you too, because they did it for me. And I had no idea that I could be a mom with six kids, little, little kids, and be able to write a book and, you know, run a company and, and, and, and, and. So, Thank you guys so much. You did it. You watched me transform, actually, while I was writing The Manager. What transformations do you commonly see as women claim their story? I just have to let that one sit for a minute because it's different and the same for every writer. I think it's a stepping into one's self and one's voice and understanding Owning that voice. And then there's always the, oh my goodness, I can't believe I'm going to share this story with the world moment. And then it turns into the, I share my stories with the world. That's what I do. I change lives over here. Yep. The thing I always tell people is I can't guarantee how it will happen, but there will be someone who reads your words that you never could imagine would. You may know them. You're not. I know you've experienced this, Amy. And you will just be both like shocked and affirmed in a way that you just cannot expect. And that alone, if you remotely feel a tug, if there's ever been the, okay, I'll put that in the book one day, or someone says you should write a book, or you've just had that tug, there is a reason for that. Someone right now that you may or may not know is hoping, wishing, praying, etc. for exactly what you want to share and exactly the way that only you can share it. And it will hit with that person and you'll find out and you'll go, I could never have pictured that. I could never have imagined. I didn't expect fill in the blank. Again, I can't ever predict. We don't know exactly what that will be, but there's always at least one, if not multiple instances of that. And that's pretty. I'll share a quick, crazy story around that. So I've been carrying around particular essay for literally since 1999 that has never been published. And it is going, it is in, it is the epilogue of the book that's coming in February. When I sent it to beta readers, the person that I thought was going to say, please get rid of this story, said, this is my favorite story in the whole book. And this is the way it touched me. And it hit a nerve with her that I didn't see coming and was just what she needed. And I guess now is the time for that story. Oh, yeah. That's how this whole conference thing started, girls. I actually have like a fan club from my book. And my fan club is the committee that's helping me put together the conference. Your book squad. It's my book squad. It is. It's women who have read my book and it resonated so deeply with them that they want to help me build something much bigger. And I'm very grateful for them every day. Shout out to Gina and Daisy. You guys are awesome. Amazing. You just never know. You just don't know. You just never know. And for the woman who's listening who feels called to write but also feels fear, what would you tell her? My most annoying say is just start. Just start writing for yourself in whatever way that gets to look. But also, again, I always like to think, what's the cost if you don't, if these words don't get out? And there is one. Somebody's not getting something, if that's you, your family, because these will last beyond us. These are things that will go generations and generations beyond us. That's what the amazing, why books are so powerful, because we can have them forever and ever. And so, It's there for a reason. So just put a word down. If it's, I don't know what to write, just start. And then call us. Yes. And I like to say, there's never a good time to get a puppy, have a baby. There's never a perfect time to get a puppy, have a baby, or write a book. And if you wait for the perfect time, it's never going to happen. So... If you're feeling the tug, as Shaina said, just let the words do. And then cough. Guys, you guys are awesome. Shaina and Cindy, thank you for this beautiful conversation and for being the book midwives behind both of my books, The Manager and now The Potential Equation, which releases on May 1st of 2026. Working with you didn't just help me publish a book. It helped me become the woman who wrote it. And I'm so grateful that you'll both be joining me on stage at the Manager Conference in Las Vegas on March 13th through the 15th as panelists and breakout session leaders. It's going to be an unforgettable weekend. I'm so excited. And to everyone listening, thank you for spending this time with us. If this episode inspired you, expanded you, or gave you a little spark you needed today, it would mean so much if you would leave a review on Apple Podcasts, give the show a rating on Spotify, subscribe to our YouTube channel so you never miss an episode. And or if you feel like it, visit themanager.com and subscribe to our newsletter or join our online community where we can share conference news, early bird announcements, and resources for your growth journey. Your support helps this message reach more women who are ready to rise in their truth. Thank you for listening to The Manager Podcast. I'm your host, Amy Riccobus, and I'll see you in the next episode.