Personal Branding for Women Over 40: Mel Elsbeth on Ending Career Invisibility | Ep 69

You have the expertise, the experience, and the story — so why does nobody know you exist? This week we're managing career visibility, and why personal branding for women over 40 is no longer optional in the AI economy.

In this episode, Aimee Rickabus talks with Mel Elsbeth, Harvard-certified brand strategist and host of the Mama What's Next podcast, about visibility, reinvention, and using your voice as a business tool.

Mel shares:
• Why capable women stay invisible — and how "I'm comfortable in the background" blocks your own career progress
• What it cost her to hide behind big brands like Diageo and Red Bull in her corporate years
• Why your CV alone can't carry you anymore, and the "extra assets" that build real credibility
• How ONE authentic visibility tool created work opportunities that didn't exist five years ago
• The invisible load women carry while building their professional foundation — and what modern female leadership really looks like

Whether you're rebuilding after corporate, growing a business, or re-entering the workforce, this conversation will give you permission — and a plan — to finally be seen.

🔗 CONNECT WITH MEL ELSBETH:
Instagram: @mamawhatsnext
Website: https://mamawhatsnext.com
Podcast: Mama What's Next

———

The Manage Her® Podcast — hosted by Aimee Rickabus. Honest conversations on leadership, financial empowerment, motherhood, wellness, and career reinvention for ambitious women.

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Transcript

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Someone in my family also said to me, who do you think would listen to that? I mean, you're not someone famous or anything. And I was like, okay, I just need to do it now. Welcome back to The Manage Her, the show where we explore what it really means to lead in today's world, not just in business, but in our homes, our health, our relationships, our communities, and ultimately ourselves. Because leadership isn't something women need to learn. It's something women have been doing all along. And this month, we are exploring one of the most powerful leadership tools available to women today, podcasting. Because podcasting isn't really about microphones, downloads, or content creation. It's about visibility. It's about using your voice to build trust, share ideas, create connection, and step into thought leadership in a way that feels authentic. For generations, women have been taught to work hard, keep their heads down, and let the results speak for themselves. But in today's world, your voice matters, your story matters, and the ability to share your perspective can open doors to new opportunities, new relationships, new jobs, and greater impact. Throughout the month of July, I'll be sitting down with women who've used podcasting to build businesses, create communities, establish authority, and create meaningful change. Because visibility is leadership, and leadership begins with finding your voice. The question is, how do we recognize it, strengthen it, and use it to build the life we actually want? Today's conversation begins with a question. How do women become visible without losing themselves in the process? For so many women, the challenge isn't a lack of expertise. It's a lack of visibility. They have the experience. They have the wisdom. They have the story. But they struggle to put themselves out into the world in a way that feels authentic. And in today's digital landscape, visibility isn't optional. Whether you're building a business, launching a movement, writing a book, growing a community, or simply sharing your message, people need to know. that you exist before they can benefit from what you have to offer. So the question we're managing today is, how can women use their voice as a tool for visibility, influence, and impact? To help us answer that question, I'm joined by Mel Elsbeth. Mel is the host of Mama What's Next. a podcast dedicated to helping women over 40 navigate reinvention, entrepreneurship, and personal growth. She has built a platform centered around authentic storytelling, meaningful conversations, and helping women step into greater visibility and confidence. Today, we're talking about podcasting, thought leadership, personal branding, visibility, and why sharing your story may be one of the most powerful business tools available, especially now with AI and the world changing so quickly. We really get into it. Let's dive in. Hi, I'm Amy Riccobus, and welcome to The Manager. As women, we're managing families, careers, businesses, communities, relationships, and often everyone else's needs before our own. But what if the invisible work is actually leadership? Every week, we will explore the skills, stories, and strategies helping women lead with greater confidence, purpose, health, and impact. Because women have been leading all along. Hi, Mel. Thank you for being here. Oh, thank you so much. Wasn't that a great introduction? I loved listening to that. Thank you so much for having me. Oh, I'm so happy you're here. Well, you know, I was on your show and you have such a special brand and you have such a special story behind you and how you got to this understanding of how story matters. And so I think many women are incredibly capable but remain largely invisible. Why do you think that happens? Well firstly I think We often don't believe in ourselves enough and what we're capable, you know, like how much we can actually do if we really put our minds to things. And I think it's really that lack of self-belief that is holding us back often. And with visibility, you know, like it's interesting because my story, like I come from East Germany and my parents were walking front row 89 to to become visible, to become heard, like they were bold, they were loud, you know, and I grew up in a very bold and loud family. But I was the quiet one. And I was very, very shy. And I think growing up like that sort of outsider already in the family, and struggling with being listened to and being heard and taking center stage, like that's always been a struggle for me. And I think, you know, sort of at the beginning of my career, I started very early on to realize that that's holding me back a lot. You know, it's not that I've achieved it, you know, like there's no end point, I think. It's just there's greater awareness that you build step by step throughout the journey. And I started, you know, back then to really consciously work on overcoming the shyness, overcoming the hesitation to go out to people and speak to people by, you know, doing promotions and event marketing and things like that, that really pushed me into this space, which I thought I wasn't capable to do, you know. And then the interesting thing is once you start to do this, these things sometimes you're really surprised what happens you know and you go wow I thought I wasn't able to do that I thought in my mind that this isn't me you know and then you start to do it and sometimes you'll realize you actually have fun doing it and you're really enjoying it and and that that's what happened with me at the time but then they come they came other other you know twists and turns along my career in the corporate space which I often talk about about, which I still struggled so much. And I think that's that's a good topic to talk about as well, because that tell us about your corporate the time that you had at corporate. You worked for some very large corporations. So tell us about that. Yes, I worked in FMCG for, you know, Diageo, which is a big drinks company, for example. That's where I started. And big brands like Bailey's, Red Bull, Rimmel Cosmetics. So there were some some big some big names in there. Yeah. And sometimes, I don't know, I recently spoke to someone that I interviewed for my podcast about the corporate space and how to build visibility in the corporate space. And especially because these are the women that I work with as well, like especially the women that come from the corporate space and they start their second career, they reinvent and they go often into a space where they build transformational businesses, where they wanna make an impact, where they wanna support and help and service other people. You know, sometimes the corporate space I think makes it almost harder for you to go into that space because in corporate, and that's what I did, and I can honestly share this now, probably wouldn't have ever admitted this when I was in the role, I was hiding. I was hiding in my jobs because I worked in marketing and I represented these big, amazing brands and I built great, amazing campaigns and it's all fun and games when you get the big budgets and you get to represent the brand. You know, you have something that you're like, oh, look at this is me. But it's very, very different when all of a sudden you have to step out of that and you have to represent yourself and what you're building from nothing because you're nobody. It's a big difference. And I think many people don't realize that until you're in that space. And in that sense, it's harder. I think, coming from a corporate space than never having experienced that. Because if you come, you know, from a regular kind of normal nine to five job, you don't know the difference so much, you know, people like that, like people like me working with bigger brands, it's actually even harder. And in corporate itself, I struggled a lot with career visibility, you know, like building your career and growing your career in corporate, because you do have to play that visibility game. And I wasn't able to like every time I had an opportunity to speak in front of people, to become visible, to, you know, present my ideas to be a leading voice for a project or for, you know, a group of people, I was the one that kind of stepped back. And willingly gave over that presentation table to someone else that, you know, there were people that always put their hand up, you know, and I was always the one telling myself at the time going, you know, I feel comfortable in the background. I'm a woman that works, works in the background, but essentially what you're really doing is, is you're holding yourself back and you're blocking your own development and your own visibility and your career progress in the company. A big struggle for me at the time. And it's funny what happens subconsciously how, and you would know this too, like how when you don't want to do this thing, then all of a sudden when the opportunity then appears and there was a situation a few years ago when I was leading a big project for alcohol responsibility, teaching the company and, but not just company-wide, also the retailers that we were working with, you know, responsible drinking and educating them. And even though I know, I knew the topic so well and I built the campaign and I was responsible for the building it up and I had the chance to present it and it was all set. And because I was so scared, I think, and I was so nervous. For some reason, my daughter got sick and my boss, the day that happened, I couldn't go. There was no one there to look after her. And my boss was like, no problem. I'll just do it. Don't worry about it. Because she was so, when you're at C-suite level, you know, you do these presentations all the time. So she was like, no, don't worry. I've seen the slides. I'll just do it for you. And bang, gone was the opportunity. So you wonder how this happens, you know, because... And we're moving into such a different economy now. I was actually talking to my, strangely enough, I was talking to my nanny about this. I had shot a podcast with Melinda Whitstock about AI, women, technology, and motherhood. And it really got me thinking about the new economy, the AI economy, and how, you know, as we, as employees, as people who need to make money somehow in this new economy, we have to think of ourselves differently. as a brand because we're going to be constantly competing with the AI resumes and all of these things. And we have an opportunity with podcasting and YouTube and all of these social media platforms to really differentiate ourselves in the marketplace as a brand, as a thought leader, as an expert in the field in a way that we never have had this opportunity before. And I think that's kind of one of the things that you're really focusing on with your work also is how can we take this woman who hides does all the work and then gets no credit for it and then take her and have her tell her story and elevate her out of the shadows and put her where she belongs. For too many years, women have done all of the work and gotten none of the credit. It's time for a shift. Yes, I totally agree with you. I'm getting goosebumps just when you're talking about it now, because I think this is, you know, how my podcast started, essentially. It was a visibility exercise for me personally to step into that. And, you know, I was scared like crazy to speak into a microphone in front of people. You know, I still... I still remember the day, you know, like when you hear back your own voice and I'm like, oh my God, I don't know how, but that's the crazy thing. Like when there's a calling and you're being pulled into this space, I just, your soul wouldn't be calling you to be stepping into this space to explore this opportunity if you weren't ready for it, if that wasn't your journey, your path, otherwise there would be no call, right? Yes. Absolutely. This is a good question. What are the biggest fears women have around being seen, heard, and putting themselves out there? Because that seems to be one of the big things. Is it that fear of failure? What do you think it is? Well, failure is certainly one of them. And then we have to look at the difference between how men navigate the world and how women navigate the world and the scrutiny that we are being exposed to. all the time. And especially when we, you know, not just in corporate spaces, career spaces, but even there, like there's a show on Netflix now that sheds a light on this, how women are being told, you know, you're too emotional when you speak up or don't get so flustered or all the things that were being criticized. Did you watch Ladies First? I haven't watched. I only watched like two trailers. I haven't fully watched it yet. Oh my gosh. It kind of blew my mind a little bit because this kind of work has been something that has been a focus of many things I've worked on for probably over a decade of my life now. And it's this, you know, understanding what the patriarchy has done, the influence that it's had on women as a whole, how it's influenced our psyches, our behaviors, how it's modified the way that we feel about our intuition and ourselves as people. And man, it's Sacha Baron Cohen. It's a comedy, but it basically, he wakes up in the flip world where it was a matriarchy and men have been living underneath a female God and the female Pope and female CEOs and female police officers. It is kind of hilarious, but it's also kind of, it's kind of sad when you look at it too. There's this You know, but here we are now on the precipice of something quite different, what I like to call feminism 2.0. And I think it's this is the time when women will have the time to reclaim what it means to be a woman, how women really do things, what we're good at, what it all means apart and aside from the patriarchy. Yes. We're in this like. very, you know, how we can rise out of this fear and being, you know, subjected because we were, we were subjectified during the patriarchal reign. And now it's how do we heal from that and move forward and become the visibly strong, beautiful, wise women that we are with our beautiful stories that we share with one another via the medium of podcasting, which is the new campfire, I guess, because we used to sit around the campfire and have these conversations and tell stories, but we don't do that anymore. Exactly. Sadly, sadly. Sadly. You know, I think there's definitely, that's also part of the answer, I guess. The issue we're also having, we often get attacked by other women as well. You know, it's not just everyone else, but it's that fear of being attacked, I think, by other people. And Sometimes you carry that, I think, from this lifetime we're in right now. Sometimes, though, I think, I believe our souls have carried that over different lifetimes. And who knows what has happened to our soul in other lifetimes. in other spheres and other lifetimes. We don't know that. And I have a theory on that too, because we carry mitochondrial DNA in our bodies. It comes from our mothers and mitochondrial DNA carries germ cells. Germ cells are the only types of cells that can carry memory. It's how whales can migrate. It's how birds migrate. But it also means that the sperm and the egg carry the germ cells for us. So that's where those mitochondria, what those germ cells are. And so in some ways, We are carrying the ancestral wounds of our mothers and our grandmothers and our great grandmothers and ourselves. And it's like, how do we break through? How do we heal those wounds in this lifetime? Yeah. And that that is such an important part of it as well, because like some women might be aware, some are less aware. Like I grew up in a family of women that have all like, you know, mothers and grandmothers. grandmother that have all been I wouldn't say well dog has to be abused you know they've been abused and they have been hurt and their voices have been shut down you know and sometimes there's different dynamics playing into it you know like it's war times our grandmothers they grew up in war times and and they were different times and sometimes you know what has happened to them is also you the men carrying trauma from war that has then resulted in somehow coping with that. And I think that's something we can only try and understand somehow and is very difficult, but we carry that. And I think sometimes this fear and this kind of shutting down and not becoming visible and protecting us, because this is what we're doing, like we're protecting us. And I see this all the time with myself, but also with other women, like every time you even starting to put yourself out there, starting to put your voice out there, the way we even speak is very focused. We don't actually notice this, but we're trying to stay in a safe zone. And then you have people that when they analyze that, like content creators, for example, content coaches, they do this as a job and often they've you know, been in other spaces, they wanted to have the stage, right? But they analyze this and they go, well, you know, the way you speak is, you know, it's not like really touching anyone. It's not emotional enough. It's not, you know, rocking anyone's boat. And why is that? It's because we're trying to stay safe all the time. We're trying to protect ourselves. And by trying to protect ourselves... We're not reaching anyone because we're being very bland and very, very shallow with what we're actually saying, right? Yeah. And it's about tapping into that real, authentic human experience, the raw, gritty, the real stuff, the painful stuff. And that's how you really connect with people. It's, you know, Disney knew this. He opens Bambi by Bambi's mother getting shot. And that was so that you would bond with Bambi. That was psychological. So there's this, you know, the openness, the wound, the willingness to expose things that are uncomfortable about ourselves, about society. Those are the things that are going to move people. They're going to touch people and change people. Yeah, that's it. And but it's so, so important. And, you know, this is why I also love you stepping into this space, because we need so many voices to be supporting women in different ways, because we all have a different way to talk to each other. We have a different energy. We have a different way of teaching and speaking and sharing and building community. I think the more the better. And it's really important to show women that it's safe, you know, to do this. And also like you being building this women-focused community is really important. Like we need to give each other safety. like women need to start being a safe space, even in business, because this is when it's hard often, like we attack each other because, you know, there's always this competitive element. But competition doesn't have to be like, I don't like you, you know, like we can support each other, lift each other up at the same time, right? Well, I like to think of competition as being more of the patriarchal style and cooperation was more of the matriarchal style. And I think that as women make that shift, shift out of imitating the man from because in the patriarchy it was like you know the higher standard was it was funny i did i'm doing this podcast made me realize that i was raised to act like a man my parents wanted me to grow up and be a ceo and be the boss kind of be the boss man dressed in a lady's suit, you know? And I had no idea that there was a different way to do anything until I was doing a documentary in film school. And Haskell Wexler said to me, women need to learn how to tell stories in a woman's way. And I went, wait, there's a woman's way to do something? And that's honestly, I was 22 years old and now I'm 47. And for the last 25 years, I've been trying to figure out what that is. Wow. Yeah. Well, there's no path. There's no path to follow. You have to build your own path. Yeah, it was erased. Our path, the matriarchal path, the way of being truly in our nature as women has been erased. And I feel like for me, really my side quest with this whole podcast has been in discovery of remembering what the true nature of a woman really is and how a woman really is supposed to lead in her highest and best self. How do we run companies in a way that a woman would run a company? How do we write books in the way that a woman would write a book? How do we how do we have a podcast in a way that a woman would have a podcast? I mean, I'm really trying to dig into it. And I think, you know, it's finding my voice allowed me to kind of go down this little path that maybe I was just doing subconsciously. But now I think I have more of a conscious understanding of it as I have been able to talk 65 episodes out. But what finally convinced you to start using your own voice more publicly? Well, I think for me, it was really this experiment to take, you know, my own struggle with visibility a little step further to be able to tackle that in a way where people wouldn't necessarily have seen me in that space. And I think then there was a particular... A particular moment where someone in my family also said to me, when I talked about the idea of doing it, you know, she said, who do you think would listen to that? I mean, you're not someone famous or anything who would listen to that. And I was like, okay, there we go. I just need to do it now. I need to do it now. That's the last little thing I needed. And even just for me and... I think even though it started as this visibility experiment, I have realized really quickly because I'm always quite aware, I'd say, of market dynamics. And I love to see what happens, you know, in the career space, in the marketing space. And to see, you know, the kinds of trends shifting and what happens with, you know, social media, media in general. I realized that obviously having... a podcast in any way, shape or form, no matter if you are, you don't need to have a podcast to get sponsorships and to get brands to pay for it. Like a podcast is amazing for so many other reasons. It's amazing for learning to tell your story, learning to see what happens when you talk about different topics to explore what comes to you easily. But it also is really important when you want to build, you know, authority when you want to, you know, become known. And when you want to, I think, for Korea in general, I think these days, your CV alone is not going to help you anymore. It's not doing anything for you anymore. Like a CV really is just, I mean, you might as well just put your jobs on one page these days. You need extra assets, I call them, to start building out your credibility for the role. You know, no matter if you are going out there and working with solopreneurs, you know, solopreneurs like direct to consumer, or if you're actually applying to corporate roles, to, you know, small to medium enterprises, everyone these days goes online immediately because a CV, you said it before, can be written by AI and is written by AI in many, many cases these days. And it's not just the people writing the CVs that, not putting any effort in. The people reading them, they're not putting any effort in either anymore. They need more from you now to be convinced. You need more to illustrate your experience. And I mean, there's different tools. Like I also give workshops to people where we do application videos together, you know, for their world, where you develop like a little story about your career experience and wrap it, you know, in a way that it It illustrates your experience for the role that you actually apply for, right? And you do it in like a minute, one and a half, in a way that you can add that as an asset to your CV when you're applying for freelance or contract roles or nine to five. So cool. Yeah, a podcast, it can be, if you like to write, I think, you know, it's interesting to start a blog or a sub stack or to start posting on LinkedIn interesting articles and posts so that people get to see what you're passionate about and what you're interested in and what you're invested in. I think that is a really important part in today's, you know, search process. for, you know, recruiters and companies. They want to see what you're invested in. They want to see where you really have the expertise because you need to prove it somehow because your CV doesn't do it anymore. Exactly. This is a new economy, this AI economy. It has shifted and changed so quickly. I think a lot of people are like, what am I supposed to do now? And it was one of the things I was talking to my nanny about was we should really be brand building our kids and teaching them about how to be visible online in a way that will help sustain them throughout their lives rather than being detrimental. Because as a mom, you can't help but translate what you learn from work and bring it home with you, right? Yeah. you know, as a mom. So that was another interesting topic was how can we help our children understand that when they go to get a job or they go to, you know, If they need to be employed in any sort of way, they're going to go check your socials. They're going to go check your, you know, and then building that credibility rather than building something that's detrimental. So, but for you, how has the visibility changed your opportunities in your life and your business? Well, for me, it's really been quite interesting. And that's why I would, I mean, I don't recommend having a podcast to everyone, but I recommend it. developing a visibility tool, like one authentic tool for you. For me, it's been the podcast, but I have had work opportunities because of the podcast. I think essentially one of the projects, these workshops that I'm giving now, I created it essentially. These are new work opportunities that didn't exist five years ago. But nowadays, because there's a demand for people to learn about visibility in front of the camera and to do storytelling. Like there is actually a company looking for someone that has marketing expertise, can teach about self-marketing, has maybe podcasting experience, video editing. And I mean, there's not so many people that can showcase that online and have the passion to work in a career space it's that but it's also when like I work in a classical sort of like these days you call them a portfolio career so I have my direct to you know solopreneurs like I work with women directly but I also work with with corporates with companies I work for brand and marketing and I work in in the career space it's the same with the other contract freelance like permanent role that I have there were over 120 applicants And because I had a visibility tool, they got interested in and invested much more in me. And they started looking at the stories and what I'm talking about and what I'm passionate about. It gives you an edge over other people. It gives you an edge over the competition. And it's the same when you start writing a subsect maybe about, you know, the things that you care about and are invested in and want to explore because you can go very deep there and you You showcase your expertise and they go, wow, you know, she really knows what she's talking about. That's really her thing. Yeah, in that way, it's really helped me a lot. And of course, you know, speaking to you now, I think just learning to express myself like this in front of a camera, you know, behind a microphone, this whole journey to... tell stories and to talk about my thoughts, my struggles. I think this in itself is also very very valuable you know, for people. It's nervous system training in real time, I always say. It really is. Yeah. If you were ever afraid to talk on a Zoom or any of that stuff, this is like really good practice for all of your future performances, any sort of public speaking that you'll have to do, any type of that. You know, you really the more time you spend in front of the camera. And we always said I started in front of the camera when I was nine years old. My mom had me in like a film and television, like kids acting class workshop thing. And, you know, she always said the more time you spend in front of the camera, the more comfortable you're going to get in front of the camera. Then I went to film school to be behind the camera, but I was one of the only girls there. So I was in everyone's short films, all the student films. I was like, hi, it's me again. Yes. I'm in this one too. No girls. I was saying you were casting a girl. It was me. But that's what I, you know, if you're interested, I would, the manager would love to collab with you on putting together one of these visibility workshops for women. And maybe we can team up and do something for our listeners. If you guys are interested, drop us a comment and let us know that that sounds like good to you. If you want to do it, we'll put it together. It's up to you guys. You tell me what you want, we'll build it. And for sure, because I would love to do something. We will, we will. Absolutely. So how has hosting over 80 episodes changed the way you think about relationships and networking? Yeah, that was an interesting question because that's probably something in the beginning that I have underestimated. I think I remember in the beginning, I was really quite nervous approaching women to just randomly, you know, come on the podcast. So I started with some people that I knew and You know, or through someone, someone, you, someone. But eventually, I think you just lose that fear. And I thought to myself, you know, what else can happen? Like they're just going to say no, you know, if they don't want to do it. they're just going to say no. So I have really followed that path of like wanting to speak to women that I, where I admire what they do, where they have the expertise that I want to showcase and where I can learn, but also like where I think, you know, most of the listeners can like experience like so much richness of, you know, expertise and knowledge. I think it's amazing what podcasting opens the doors to you know in a very natural relaxed way all of a sudden you're in a room that and I love this so much like it makes me realize even though I'm an introvert I love so much to get to know women like you you know to hear like how you've like built your career your life your company like but also what you think about like the family the And how to raise, you know, six children and build a business and manage it all as a woman manages it. And it's so fascinating for me to explore these stories. And I think women network differently. We really do. And it just gives you so many opportunities to explore, you know, like you do, like programs, events together and help others. others succeed together in the way that we do it, you know? Yeah, I've found it's been amazing. And then I'll talk to somebody and I'll be like, wait a second, you need to talk to this other girl. I'm hooking up two women who are highly impassioned about women's health studies. And I think they're going to be powerhouses together for my series that's going to be the month before you. So I'm connecting, if you listeners are listening, Dr. Mari Mitrani and Nurse Mel, who are super passionate about women's health studies that haven't been powered and haven't been funded. And basically these girls want to go out and raise the money and power these studies that have never been done for us. And I'm like, wow. But it's one of those things. It's this amazing network of people that are high level thought leaders and you get a bunch of them together and then you get to get a little bit of that knowledge from every single one of them. And it's juicy. There's a juiciness to it. You know, I feel like I get wiser every week because of it. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And it's also sometimes what I find fascinating as well is that sometimes when you talk about business topics and how you're building, you know, your own journey, you realize that you're facing the same struggles. And that, again, is also something I think where this community element comes in where you go, oh, my God, like I was looking at her as being this successful alien, so to speak, you know, like someone. And then you realize, oh, my God, She's actually having the same thoughts as me. She might have just been like two steps ahead of me, but she's actually been there. She's she just learned how to work through it. And it's, you know, humbling in a way and makes you realize that we're all just facing the same dragons, you know. We are. I mean, I love how you say we're all like the chief nappy changer, you know, and the end of the day, you know, we're all up to our elbows and diapers still. So there's a humble, there's a humbleness to it. to the experience of being a woman. I don't know if being a man is as humbling. They don't go through labor. They're not up all night for months at a time with a newborn baby. I just feel like there's something about the experience of being a woman that is extremely humbling. And no matter who you talk to as a woman, especially in the mother set, it doesn't matter how many things you've accomplished. It's like we're soldiers who've been in the same battle together, you know, the battle of motherhood. Yes. There's a camaraderie, right? Yes. Yes, absolutely. And we're all facing the same, you know, like the frustrations, everything, like the frustrations that we have, that people have with their partners, with their husbands, the not understanding at home and how we have this invisible load that we carry all the time while actually now starting to take charge of our own lives and visibility expertise and building up our, you know, our professional foundation as well it is so much harder and that's what everyone realizes as well I think we have a harder battle it's not as easy Biologically, we have more of a handicap, as they would call it in golf. We should have a handicap a little because, yeah, motherhood is a full-time job that we have on top of our full-time job. It's more than a full-time job. It's 24 by 7 by 365. There's no other job like it. But what's something women are already doing well that they don't give themselves enough credit for? Mel, what do you think? Well, I think that there's so much that we do at home that we are not carrying into the workplace as a capability, you know, like if you just think about all the network and community building, nurturing that we do at home with our children, you know, that needs to find a place in the career space, you know, that needs to find more acknowledgement because companies flourish and grow because women are Are the glue holding the teams together and supporting If it will only be men, you know, like look at the companies that are just built up by men, like they have a very different energy. They have a very different, you know, working with each other. And I think that gets not like we also don't give ourselves enough credit for it. And it's such an essential, essential element in workplaces. And we undervalue it and companies undervalue it. And it needs to find more value. Absolutely. Yeah. For me, what do you think the modern female leadership looks like? Well, I think, you know, like I've heard there are women in big corporates now. They work very differently. They come to work at 10 o'clock. They leave at four o'clock. They do everything else around the work, you know, however they can manage it. But they come in and they lead at 80 percent capacity and that's it. They don't work 60 hour weeks anymore. They just don't do it. And they succeed. And these are the examples that we need now. You know, we need the mom to come in and say, I have two kids. I'm a senior director. I will be here at 930 in the morning, but I will leave at 330. I have to pick up my kids and I only work four days a week and it will work. It will work. It does work. I've seen it myself. Our controller for our company is, you know, at post-COVID, she used to come in, it was like 40 plus hours a week in the office. And she has two kids and we've created a flexible work schedule for her so that she can drop her kids off, come into the office. She comes in three days a week. She can leave when she needs to go pick her children up. And guess what? Everything still gets done. Yeah, there you go. We still get it done. It's kind of trusting that we will accomplish the tasks that have been set forth for us because we're really good at accomplishing tasks. It's all we do all day long is accomplish. And coordinating. Yes. Logistics, coordinating, managing emotions and logistics and all at the same time, which is what you do at work, you know, projects and people. Projects. And people management, project management, people management, time management, asset management, capital management. These are the things that women are really good at that we're doing constantly. And motherhood has only been more of a masterclass for us. So I think you're absolutely right. The modern female understands that the mother is a highly capable production machine and that she doesn't need eight hours to accomplish the work. She can get it done in six. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. I love that. What are you managing differently today than you were five years ago? I think my presence with my child, which, you know, I have a daughter, she's nine. And I think I used to be not as present with her. I used to be much more, you know, work, work, work, work, work. And I'm being much more conscious of that now, having weekends really focused on her. And if I have to do something, you know, prepare a newsletter or whatever, I try and get that done before she gets up. And then I can be present with her and have, you know, adventures and experiences. And yeah, so I think that's something that I manage differently now, because I think that's really critical in today's online, always on world. So yeah. I love that, Mel. I love that so much. I'd say it's definitely post-COVID world. It really shifted how we did things. I feel like we were in very much like fifth gear in 2019. And then, you know, now I feel like the world, you know, rarely anyone works on Fridays anymore and those kinds of things. And I actually, I'm okay with that. For me, it works. And I know that you have your daughter and food in the oven. So I want to let you go because we're always multitasking. It's what we do. We are women. We are the manager. We are managing all the things Mel if if anybody wants to reach out to you, what's the best place for them to do that? We'll put it in the show notes also. Where can they find you? Yes. Yes. Well, the best place right now is Mama What's Next on Instagram. That's where you can find me. And I'd love to connect with listeners if you're interested in this space and to explore, you know, visibility and reinvention over 40 more and how to do it, how to step into it. I'm here for you. Awesome. Thank you so much for having me, Amy. It's been such a wonderful conversation. You're the best. I look forward to doing way more things with you in the future. And maybe, just maybe, we could have some sort of a retreat in Mallorca. A visibility retreat. Bring it on. Bring it on for women. This is the space. This is where... You have this amazing opportunity to create like essential business tools and teach essential business like strategy tactics. But at the same time, for women specifically, for us, it's so important that we work on your like on our nervous system to to be able to hold that new version, you know, so that at the same time you're doing like there's so much amazing stuff that you can do here on the island. So, yes. mallorca is the place so yeah i forgot to mention something together yeah i forgot to mention that's where mel is located. So, I don't know, maybe we're going to Spain. What do you guys think? If you guys want to go to Mallorca, please comment mallorca in the comments and we'll put it together. Bring it on. Bring it on. Yay. Thanks Mel so much. Thank you too. Go get your food. What I loved about this conversation is that it reminds us that visibility isn't about becoming louder. It's about becoming more honest. So many women spend years building expertise, raising families, solving problems, supporting others, and creating incredible value in the world, yet they hesitate to share their stories. But your story matters. Your voice matters. And sometimes the opportunities you're waiting for is waiting to hear from you first. And sometimes the opportunity... you're waiting for is waiting to hear from you first. And a huge thank you to Mel Elsbeth of Mama What's Next for joining us today and for sharing her wisdom around visibility, reinvention, and the power of authentic storytelling. If you'd like to connect with Mel, we'll include all of her links in the show notes below. Also check out her podcast wherever you find them at Mama What's Next and listen to my episode too. And if today's conversation resonated with you, We'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with another woman who may need the reminder that her voice deserves to be heard. Next week, we'll continue our podcasting as thought leadership series as we explore how women are using media, storytelling and personal brands to create impact, authority and expand their influence. Until next time, remember, women have been leading all along. The question is not whether you're capable. The question is what becomes possible when you finally allow yourself to be seen. I'm Amy Riccobus, and we'll see you next Monday for our next episode of The Man to Share.