The PGspot

The PGspot - Understanding Sexual Disgust and Desire

Patty Jalomo Season 1 Episode 21

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Understanding Sexual Disgust and Desire explores how attraction and aversion are shaped by both biology and experience. In this episode, we look at sexual disgust through an evolutionary lens, how it developed as a protective mechanism and why it still influences desire today. We also examine how factors such as stress, relational safety, past experiences, cultural messaging, and gender differences affect the delicate balance between desire and aversion.

This conversation offers a compassionate framework for understanding shifts in libido that are often confusing or misunderstood, and invites listeners to move beyond shame toward curiosity and connection.

I would love to hear your feedback about today's episode, as well as any questions or topics that you would like addressed in future episodes. Although "Fanmail" doesn't allow for me to respond back directly, I am happy to address any questions in upcoming episodes. Thank you for listening and taking the time to message The PGspot through Fanmail!

If you want to learn more about sexual health, sexual dysfunction, or how to improve your sex life, follow me on Instagram at @thepgspot or check out my website at doctorpattyj.com for blogs and resources related to sex positivity and real talk about sexuality.  As as always, stay curious, stay empowered, and stay you.

Welcome to the PG spot, where our goal is to take the X out of sex by breaking down the barriers that prevent open communication about sexual health. I'm Dr. Patty Jalomo a dual certified nurse practitioner, pelvic floor therapist, and certified sexual counselor. I'm here to provide expert insights, debunk myths, and empower you to embrace your sexual wellbeing. Whether you're looking for answers or simply curious, join us as we open up the conversation around sex, intimacy and everything in between. I want to take this opportunity to acknowledge that some content may not be appropriate for all listeners. I'm a huge proponent of honest and accurate information regarding sexuality. But I'm also mindful that this should be age appropriate. Therefore, if you are under 18, this may not be the podcast for you. Additionally, some of the language used in this podcast may be offensive to some listeners. Please take these things into consideration before going forward with your consensual participation in this podcast. The opinions expressed by myself or my guests are just that, and these opinions are neither expected or required to be shared by all listeners. The information that is provided is for educational and entertainment purposes only, and should not be mistaken for individual medical advice if you do find the information that we cover in the PG spot. Helpful. Interesting or informative. Please rate and review the podcast wherever you're listening from. If you think this information is important, I would love for you to share it with your friends or family. This is a great way to get the information out to more people. So thank you for listening and let's get on with the show. Hey everyone. Welcome to the PG spot. I'm your host, Dr. Patty Jalomo, and today we're going to talk about something that comes up all the time in conversations about female sexual desire, but it's rarely named out loud. As a matter of fact, I just recently heard the term sexual disgust, and I talk about sex all the time. So I decided to take a deeper dive into what sexual disgust is and how it affects sexual desire, and what I found out really made a lot of sense to me and helped to normalize this feeling. It confirmed that sexual disgust is not necessarily a negative thing. It's not failure or doesn't happen because of immaturity, prudishness, or a lack of attraction, and it's not something that someone should just push through or get over to understand sexual disgust. It's necessary to first examine the broader disgust response. Disgust is an evolutionary adaptive psychological mechanism that motivates avoidance of stimuli perceived as harmful or contaminating. In a 2019 study, Crosby and colleagues define the disgust response as a protective system that helps individuals avoid disease contamination and social threats by eliciting feelings of revulsion. Research consistently shows that females exhibit stronger disgust responses than males, both generally and in sexual context. From an evolutionary perspective, this difference likely conferred reproductive advantages. Women who were more discriminating about what they consumed and who they engaged with sexually were better protected from pathogens that could harm a developing fetus or breastfeeding infant. Ultimately increasing offspring survival. In modern context, this heightened sensitivity manifests as sexual disgust or the tendency to find certain sexual stimuli or behaviors unappealing or aversive. This can include reactions to fetish activities, common practices such as anal sex or emerging sexual technologies like sex dolls and robots. In the context of sexual desire, there must be a motivator. Female Sexual motivation is regulated by two broad input pathways. The first is a hormonal pathway that increases sexual desire when conception is more likely. This is supported by evidence related to menstrual cycle phases, menopause and hormone replacement therapy. The second is non-hormonal, so social pathway that promotes pair bonding and relationship maintenance, which is influenced by relationship duration and quality. Sexual activity offers immediate benefits such as pleasure, emotional bonding, and access to social or economic resources, but it also carries risks. These include unwanted pregnancy, sexually transmitted infections, exposure to pathogens, and potential damage to social reputation. Disgust plays a central role in managing these risks and is considered a key component of the behavioral immune system, which reduces disease exposure by discouraging participation in high risk situations. Evolutionary theories suggest that disgusted evolved to addressed three adaptive challenges, avoiding infectious agents, avoiding risky or suboptimal sexual partners, and preventing violations of social norms. As I mentioned, research shows that sexual disgusted thresholds are generally higher in men than in women. This is influenced by contextual factors such as mate availability, disease cues, genetic relatedness, and perceived mate value discussed specific to sexual stimuli, is therefore understood as an adaptive mechanism serving pathogen avoidance, partner selection, and social regulation. Recent research also highlights how sexual disgust operates in response to novel sexual contexts. in a 2025 survey of 371 adults, Williams and colleagues found that men were rated as more disgusting than women When depicted using sex technology. Disgust levels varied by device with traditional sex toys, eliciting the least disgust and sex robots the most across all conditions, women reported significantly higher disgust than men. Overall, women consistently demonstrate higher levels of core or pathogen related and sexual disgust than men. A pattern also observed in clinical context such as Obsessive compulsive disorder, where women more frequently experience contamination and cleaning related obsessions. Together these findings underscore sexual disgust as a deeply rooted, evolutionary informed mechanism that continues to shape female sexual desire and behavior in contemporary society. For many women, sexual disgust shows up quietly. It might feel like an internal, Nope. tightening in the body, a sudden loss of arousal or a sense of repulsion that doesn't make logical sense, especially when you love your partner or you want to want sex. And because we don't talk about this openly, a lot of women assume the problem must be them. They assume that their libido is broken or that desire just disappears with age, stress, or long-term relationships. But what if that loss of desire isn't actually a loss at all? What if it's your body protecting you? In this episode, I want to explore how sexual disgust functions as a protective response. Why it so often affects women's desire and how ignoring or overriding it can actually make things worse over time. We'll talk about common triggers, how disgust differs from low libido, and what it looks like to work with your body instead of fighting it. This isn't about forcing desire back online. It's about understanding what your nervous system is responding to and why safety, choice and agency matter so much when it comes to sexual desire. my hope is that by the end of this episode, you'll feel less broken, less alone, and more curious about what your body might be communicating. So let's start by naming what sexual disgust actually is and what it isn't. When I talk about sexual disgust, I'm not talking about judgment or being turned off in a moral way. I'm talking about that gut level response where your body pulls back sometimes suddenly and says no, even when your mind wants to want sex. It's a protective nervous system response, not a personal failure or lack of attraction. It's the same response that makes you recoil from spoiled food Or pull your hand back from something hot before you even think about it. Your body reacts first because its job is to keep you safe, not to be polite or logical. And sex by nature involves vulnerability, physically, emotionally, and relationally. So it makes complete sense that the same protective system would be involved in sexual situations too. When sexual disgust shows up, it's not because you don't like sex or you don't love your partner. It's because your nervous system has picked up something that feels off. Maybe pressure, obligation, emotional disconnection, sensory overwhelm, exhaustion, or a lack of choice. Here's the key part. Disgusted doesn't mean desire is gone. It means desire is being overridden. You can't feel turned on and repelled at the same time. And when the body sense is even a subtle threat, it prioritizes protection over pleasure every single time. That's not a failure. That's biology. And a lot of women assume that if they're attracted to their partner or if their libido were healthy, they wouldn't feel this way. But often desire hasn't disappeared. It's just inaccessible because the body is busy bracing. I like to think of it this way. If desire were a dimmer switch disgust, isn't the light bulb burning out? It's the circuit breaker flipping when something feels unsafe. So turning the lights back on doesn't happen by forcing the switch, it happens by addressing what caused the overload in the first place. And for many women, disgust becomes one of the few ways that the body can clearly say no, especially in a culture that teaches us to be accommodating, agreeable, and available even when something doesn't feel right. So instead of asking What's wrong with me, I want to offer a different question. What might my body be protecting me from right now? Because when you start listening to disgust as information, instead of treating it as an obstacle, you can create the conditions where desire can actually return. So how does sexual disgust show up? Well, that internal, nope. Response can sometimes be physical and sometimes emotional. For a lot of women, this shows up as sensory overload. Suddenly smells feel stronger, taste becomes distracting. Touch that used to feel good now feels irritating or too intense. Kissing feels wet or overwhelming. Bodily fluids become more of a turnoff than a turn on. Often the reaction is immediate before you have time to think it through. And what makes this especially confusing is that nothing is necessarily wrong in the relationship. You can love your partner. You can feel emotionally close and your body can still pull away. And this is often when women say, I want to want this, but my body won't cooperate. Pressure plays a huge role here. Every sensation gets louder. The same touch that feels neutral or even pleasant when it's optimal can suddenly feel unbearable when it's required. Exhaustion matters too. When you're burned out, touched out, or emotionally depleted, your nervous system has very little capacity for any extra input. Even affectionate touch can feel like it's too much. And then there's the emotional layer. resentment, disconnection, or feeling unseen, can quietly amplify disgust? Small things, habits that you used to ignore can suddenly feel physically repelling. Not because you don't love your partner, but because your body is signaling that something needs attention. So if you've ever felt confused or guilty because your body says no when your heart says yes, I want you to understand that this disconnect is common. Love and arousal live in different parts of the nervous system, and when the body is overwhelmed, it will choose protection every time. One of the most important things to understand about sexual disgust is that it isn't fixed and it isn't your identity. Disgusted is highly situational. It changes depending on context, stress levels, hormones, sleep, emotional connection, and whether you feel choice or pressure in the moment. That's why you might feel completely open and responsive one day and shut down or repelled the next without anything dramatic happening in between. For example, the same touch can feel comforting when you're relaxed and overwhelming. When you're exhausted. The same smell might not register at all when you feel emotionally close, but feel intolerable. When you're stressed or disconnected. Nothing about you or your partner has suddenly gone wrong. Your nervous system is just responding to different conditions. this is also why many women notice that disgust disappears in certain situations. Maybe when there's no expectation of sex or when intimacy unfolds slowly or when you feel emotionally seen, rested, and genuinely free to say no. The body relaxes and desire has a space to show up again. That fluctuation is a clue. It tells us that disgusted isn't a permanent block. It's a response to circumstances. When the conditions change, the response often changes too. So instead of asking, why am I like this, maybe a more helpful question might be, When does it show up and when does it ease? Because patterns matter more than labels. And learning what helps it soften is often the beginning of restoring desire. So let's talk about why sexual disgust can feel so confusing. We mentioned that biologically, your body prioritizes protection over pleasure, disgust activates the sympathetic nervous system. Your fight or flight response, which can make your muscles tense, your stomach flutter, your heart, race, or even make you feel like you need to pull away. Sexual arousal on the other hand, relies on the parasympathetic nervous system, which is all about relaxation, receptivity, and blood flow. These two systems can't fully operate at the same time, so when disgust kicks in your body literally can't feel desire. This is automatic. Your nervous system reacts before your conscious mind has a chance to think, wait, I'm attracted. I want this. That's why you might feel a sudden repulsion, even when you love your partner, even when you want to want sex. If we take a step back and look at this from an evolutionary perspective, it starts to make a lot of sense. Disgusted didn't just exist to annoy us. It evolved to keep us safe. Avoiding spoiled food disease or risky situations helped our ancestors survive. Sexual disgust works in a similar way. It's the body's automatic signal saying something here might be risky. Let's pause. Women, historically have had more reproductive vulnerability, Pregnancy, hormonal cycles and disease risk made it adaptive to be extra sensitive to cues of potential harm, smells, fluids, aggressive touch, or even emotional tension. Even today, our bodies still respond to those cues in the same protective way. Let's shift the focus for a moment to sexual desire. Sexual desire doesn't exist in isolation. It requires three key ingredients. Which are safety, choice and emotional presence First safety. Your body needs to feel physically, emotionally, and relationally safe. That doesn't just mean the absence of harm. It means your nervous system feels relaxed enough to let arousal show up. If there's tension, threat, or uncertainty, your body prioritizes protection. Over pleasure, second choice. Desire thrives when you feel agency. When you can freely say yes or no without fear of judgment or pressure, your body can relax into pleasure, but obligation, coercion or performance expectations suppress arousal because the nervous system interprets that as threats. Desire isn't a switch. You can flip. It needs room to exist. Finally, there is emotional presence. Feeling emotionally seen, understood, and held signals that it's safe to connect, relax, and respond when there's distraction, resentment, or emotional disconnection. Desire often fades even if the attraction remains put simply. Sexual desire isn't just about attraction or arousal. It's a conversation between your body and mind, and that conversation only happens when the conditions are right. Safety choice and emotional presence aren't optional extras. They're the foundation for desire to exist and flourish, and that's why sexual desire isn't automatic. The body will only fully relax and feel pleasure when it senses safety. When the environment is calm, the partner's trustworthy and there's no immediate threat. Disgust is essentially a pause button that lets your nervous system protect you until those conditions are met. Another important layer to sexual disgust is cultural and social messaging. Many women grow up in environments that teach them that sex is risky, shameful, or even dangerous Purity culture, for example, often frames sexual desire as something that must be controlled or suppressed. Even if those teachings are decades old. Our nervous system remembers them and can trigger disgust when sexual situations feel unsafe or morally conflicted. Beyond moral messaging, women are often socialized to endure sexual situations, to prioritize their partner's needs over their own comfort or pleasure. That pressure, even if subtle can create a protective response in the body, disgusted can show up as the nervous system's way of saying, I'm not ready to consent fully here. It's not a rejection or a lack of attraction. It's a signal that the body wants choice and autonomy. Shame around female sexual pleasure also plays a role. Many women are taught explicitly. Explicitly or implicitly that wanting sex, enjoying touch, or feeling aroused is selfish or inappropriate, that internal conflict can make desire harder to access and disgust often appears as a kind of enforcement mechanism, a pause button that helps keep us safe from perceived social or moral risk. The good news is that understanding these cultural influences allows us to separate the nervous system's protective response from personal failure. Disgusted becomes information, not judgment, and that awareness is a powerful first step towards reclaiming safety, pleasure and desire. Another key factor in sexual disgust comes from relational dynamics or the ways our relationships shape desire. One big piece is emotional labor. Women often take on more mental and emotional work in their relationships, keeping track of partner's, moods, planning intimacy, managing conflict, or smoothing over tension. That constant effort can lead the nervous system depleted. When we're running on empty emotionally, our body can respond with disgust. it's a signal saying, I'm too text to engage right now. Feeling obligated is another powerful trigger, even if you love your partner and find them attractive. The moment sex feels like a duty or something you're supposed to do, your nervous system interprets that as pressure and pressure activates disgust or shuts down arousal. It's not a moral judgment or a failure of desire. It's biology protecting you from something when the conditions aren't right. Again, desire isn't just about attraction. It's about connection, feeling emotionally seen, safe and respected creates the conditions for arousal when those needs aren't met. Even small tensions can reduce desire and trigger protective responses. Understanding this helps reframe disgust. It is not rejection of your partner. It's information. It's your body signaling that it needs emotional attunement, safety and choice before sexual engagement feels possible. Sexual desire isn't static. It changes across the lifespan. Pregnancy, postpartum recovery, perimenopause and menopause. They all bring about hormonal shifts that can affect arousal, sensation and lubrication. These changes are completely normal. Your body isn't broken. It's adapting to new realities. Stress and burnout also play a huge role. Chronic stress. Parenting demands or professional overload shifts your nervous system into survival mode. When that happens, arousal naturally takes a backseat, and disgust or avoidance may appear as a protective response. Fluctuation is completely expected. Desire isn't meant to stay at the same level all the time, and feeling repelled or uninterested sometimes is part of a normal pattern. The key is reframing these experiences with self-compassion disgust or low desire isn't a moral failing, is your body signaling that it needs rest, recalibration, or different conditions to feel safe and ready for pleasure. Recognizing this can be freeing and it allows you to respond with understanding rather than judgment. Let's talk about some common physical triggers of sexual disgust and how to recognize that them without turning them into a diagnosis. We've mentioned that many women may notice sudden aversions to smells, tastes, or bodily fluids. These are normal sensory responses, not signs that there's something wrong with you. Fatigue, stress and hormonal shifts like those during postpartum recovery, perimenopause, or even monthly cycles can make sensations feel sharper or more overwhelming. That's why the same touch, taste, or smell can feel fine on one day and unbearable the next, as we've discussed, the important thing is to treat these responses as information. Your body is communicating what it can and cannot tolerate in the moment. Recognizing a trigger doesn't mean there's a medical or psychological problem. It just means that you're paying attention to your body's needs. Framing it this way shifts the conversation from judgment to curiosity. Instead of asking, why am I like this? You can ask, what is my body responding to right now? That recognition is the first step towards responding with care and understanding. Emotional triggers are another very common source of sexual disgust, and it's equally important to frame them with the same goal, which is recognition versus diagnosis. Many women notice that feelings like resentment, disconnection, or feeling unseen or pressured can make them feel suddenly repelled even when they love their partners. These responses are signals from your nervous system. Communicating that something about the emotional context isn't safe or aligned with your needs, pressure or obligation, even subtle, can activate a disgusted response because the body interprets that as a threat. Recognizing these triggers doesn't mean that there's something wrong with your relationship or with you. It simply means that you're paying attention to what your body and emotions Need to feel safe, seen and connected. Framing it this way shifts the conversation from shame or self blame to curiosity. Emotional triggers are not failures. They're guides helping you understand what conditions are necessary for desire to show up. Psychological triggers are another piece of the puzzle when it comes to sexual disgust, and once again, it helps to frame them as recognition, not diagnosis. Past experiences or trauma, even if they weren't sexual, can make your nervous system respond with aversion or repulsion. Similarly, concerns about body image or self-consciousness can make intimacy feel overwhelming or triggering. These reactions are not a reflection of your worth, attractiveness, or desire. There are signals from your nervous system saying, I need to feel safe, seen and supported before I can engage. The body is protecting itself, not judging you. Triggers may be situational, showing up sometimes and not others. You might notice them during stressful periods after exhaustion or when emotional connection feels low. that fluctuation is normal and expected. One of the most important things to understand about sexual desire is that libido can exist even when it feels inaccessible. You might feel no arousal in the moment, but that doesn't mean that desire is gone, it's just temporarily blocked. Sexual disgust acts like a gatekeeper. It's job is to keep you safe physically, emotionally, and psychologically When your nervous system perceives risk, overwhelm, or lack of choice, it closes the gate Desire doesn't disappear. It's waiting behind that gate until the conditions feel safe enough for it to emerge. That's why a lot of libido boosting advice. things like just relax, think sexy thoughts or try a new position. Often don't work when disgust is present. Those approaches rely on mindset, but you can't mindset your way past a nervous system response. Your body responds first and your conscious mind responds second. Recognizing disgusted as a gatekeeper, reframes the experience. It's not a failure or lack of attraction. It's your nervous system telling you I need safety, choice and emotional presence before pleasure is possible. And the good news is when those conditions are met, libido can and often does. Reemerge naturally. You may be thinking, okay, I get it. Sexual disgust is an evolutionary adaptive nervous system response that exists for protection and ultimately survival, but that doesn't necessarily help you get your desire back or improve your sexual relationship with your partner. So here are three actionable steps that you can take to shut down sexual disgust and open the gates to desire. Step one is naming disgusted internally without shame. Notice it in your body. You might feel tension, a tightening, a sudden aversion, or even nausea, Whatever the sensation, silently acknowledge it by saying to yourself something like. I notice disgust is present right now. When you do this, you're not failing or broken. You're simply recognizing your body's response. Naming. It creates space between you and the feeling and that awareness alone can be powerful. Step two is communicating boundaries Clearly. Disgust often shows up when there's a mismatch between what you want and what's happening. Being able to say I need to pause or this isn't comfortable right now is vital. Clear boundaries are not rejection. They are information. They help both partners understand what is safe and what conditions are needed for intimacy. Step three is reducing pressure and performance expectations. One of the fastest ways to trigger disgust is to feel obligated, rushed, or under performance pressure desire can't grow in that environment. Give yourself and your partner permission to slow down. Remove the idea that sexual engagement has to meet a certain standard or achieve a certain outcome. When pressure drops, the nervous system relaxes and the gate to desire can start to open. Pacing, consent and choice are critical. Desire grows where agency exists. That means having the ability to say yes or no freely and to take things at a speed that feels safe. Small steps, touch presence non-sexual intimacy can slowly build comfort. You might start with simply being physically close without expectation of arousal or orgasm, or agreeing together that a certain activity will only continue as long as it feels voluntary. This intentional pacing supports the nervous system and reinforces the sense of safety. When you approach discussed this way, you shift from trying to suppress or ignore it to working with it. You notice it, honor it, and use it as a guidance. You're not fighting your body, you're listening to it over time. This approach allows the nervous system to recalibrate. Desire doesn't magically appear the moment you decide you want it. It emerges with safety, choice, and emotional presence. Some practical ways to integrate this into your life. Include things like self check-ins, pause before intimacy, and notice what you're feeling physically and emotionally. Are you relaxed or tense, curious or repelled? Use clear language with your partners. communicate your comfort level, and boundaries without apology. Drop performance expectations. Focus on presence, touch, and connection rather than outcomes. And honor, pacing and consent. Take small steps, repeat them if needed, and ensure that choice is central. Ultimately working with disgust is about curiosity, compassion, and communication. It's about creating conditions where desire can grow naturally. When you shift the question from, how do I get rid of this to what is my body responding to you open a pathway for safety, connection, and eventually desire. If you're a partner listening to this, I want to speak directly to you for a few minutes. First, it's important to know this sexual disgust is not rejection. When your partner feels aversion, it's not about you personally. It's about their nervous system responding to safety context, and overwhelm. Your partner's body is sending information. It's not a judgment on your attractiveness, your relationship, or your love for them. One of the most common mistakes is thinking that pressure or persuasion will help. In fact, the opposite is true as we've discussed, pressure expectations or trying to convince someone to feel desire, almost always increases avoidance, tension and disgust. Desire can't be forced. It emerges when the body feels safe, respected, and voluntary. So what can you do? There are a few key areas where partners can help. First emotional attunement. This means tuning into your partner's emotional state, listening to cues and checking in regularly. Simple questions like, how are you feeling right now? Or, what do you need from me in this moment? Can go a long way. Attunement communicates safety and connection, and that is the foundation for desire. Second, respecting boundaries. Boundaries are not obstacles. They are information. When your partner says, I'm not comfortable with this right now, honoring that boundary reinforces trust. Clear consistent boundaries. Make it safe for desire to reemerge. You don't need to solve or fix anything. Simply acknowledging and respecting limits is powerful. Third, expanding definitions of intimacy. Intimacy isn't only sexual, it includes touch, emotional closeness, shared laughter, cuddling, holding hands, and verbal connection. Focusing on these forms of intimacy allows closeness to flourish even when sexual desire isn't present. And ironically, this often creates the safety and connection that makes sexual desire more accessible over time. It is also vital to normalize that working with sexual disgust is relational work. This is not something your partner needs to fix or you need to fix alone. It's a dance that requires curiosity, compassion and ongoing communication from both people. Shifts in desire and disgust are natural, And approaching them together rather than as a problem to be solved, strengthens both connection and trust. So if you're a partner, remember these three things. Discuss this information not rejection. Pressure increases avoidance and connection. Attunement and respecting boundaries create conditions where desire can safely grow. When you approach your partner with curiosity, patience, and empathy, you aren't just supporting your sexual experience, you're building a deeper, more trusting and more resilient connection. As we wrap up, I wanna leave you with this. Sexual disgust is not your enemy. It's information It is your body saying that something doesn't feel safe, aligned, or resourced in this moment, and that message deserves curiosity, not shame. If you recognize yourself anywhere in this episode, I hope that you take that as validation that you are not broken. You don't need to label yourself, and you don't need to rush into solving anything. Awareness alone can be a powerful first step. Remember, sexual desire doesn't grow through pressure or obligation. It grows where there is choice agency and emotional safety, and sometimes the most loving thing that you can do is listen. When your body says no, instead of forcing it to say yes, thank you for spending this time with me and for being willing to explore a topic that can feel vulnerable or uncomfortable. If you found this episode helpful, feel free to share it with someone who might need to hear it or save it for a moment when you need the reminder yourself. Until next time, stay curious, stay empowered, and stay you. That's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening, and be sure to rate and review the podcast on whatever platform you're listening from and share it with your friends. That's a great way to help reach new listeners and make this a more sex positive world. Also, I'd love your feedback and questions, so send me a message. It's at email@doctorpattyj.com, and that's doctor spelled out, D-O-C-T-O-R-P-A-T-T-Y j.com. Until next time, stay curious, stay empowered, and stay you.