Chelsea Ocean | From Loving an Alcoholic & Grieving His Death to Healing & Spiritual Connection

This is Chelsea Ocean’s mental health & addiction recovery story—told through the lens of grief, love, and strength. After losing her husband, a decorated Marine, to alcoholism, Chelsea turned heartbreak into advocacy. She shares the unseen signs of high-functioning addiction, the trauma of emotional abuse, and her journey from enabling to letting go.

Explore addiction treatment options: https://recovery.com

Connect with Chelsea: https://www.instagram.com/chels.ocean/

00:00 Introduction to Chelsea's Story
00:30 Meet the Hosts and Guest
01:56 Chelsea's Life with Dan
03:22 Understanding Alcoholism Stages
05:59 Military Life and Alcoholism
08:30 Community and Support Challenges
13:36 Personal Struggles and Coping
19:54 The Breaking Point
33:33 Struggles and Support
34:04 Facing Reality
34:31 The Breaking Point
36:35 A Difficult Decision
37:59 Life After Loss
40:48 Reflections and Advice
45:09 Healing and Moving Forward
49:11 Gratitude and Conclusion

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

And I used to call him Jekyll and Hyde because he was a perfect man when he was sober. Handsome and perfect and sweet and kind and loving and hardworking. And then when he was drunk, he was the worst human being on the planet. The most manipulative, conniving, careless, like just did things where I was like, what is I literally, what is happening.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Welcome to Recovery Cast, where we share authentic stories from influential voices about the joys of life in mental health and addiction recovery and the journeys that led us here.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

We tell our stories because we don't heal in isolation.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

I'm Brittany Bainard.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

And I'm Tom Farley.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

On this episode, we sit down with the fearless and inspiring Chelsea Ocean, a content creator making waves with her raw and unfiltered takes on sobriety, mental health, and personal growth. After losing her partner Dan to alcoholism, Chelsea turned her grief into a mission, using her platform to raise awareness, break the stigma, and help others navigate recovery. With a powerful mix of humor, honesty, and heart, she's built a loyal community, proving that healing is possible and vulnerability is strength. Get ready for a deeply moving conversation about loss, resilience, and the power of showing up as your truest self. Thank you for joining us today on Recovery Cast. Uh, today's guest is Chelsea Newell. Thank you so much for coming and joining us today. Yeah, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Yeah, Chelsea, this is awesome. All the way from San Diego. Yeah, Madison's fun no matter what the weather is. So it's you. We're supposed to say that. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

It is very pretty. I've seen the what's the building at the end? Oh, the Capitol. Yeah. When you when I first pulled in, I could see it on the end.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

It looks like it's gorgeous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

So I kind of want to dive in the middle of the story, but kind of the beginning of the journey. I would love for you to go into your life with Dan. You know, you've been together for a few years, you're married, but things are starting to change. And on the outside, things are looking really great, but on the inside and in the home, Dan is struggling. Um, and I'd love for you to just kind of take us into that part of your life.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

As you said, we'd been married for a couple of years. And for the first couple of years of our marriage, it was literally perfect. I mean, people used to come over and be like, How do you guys have such a perfect marriage? Tell us. And we, and it wasn't fake. We generally didn't fight. I loved him. He loved me. We were super happy. We were just in like the honeymoon stage, but it lasted for a while. In addition to that, though, he was deploying, he was going to training. He was, I mean, so he'd be gone for a month, back for a month, gone for three months, back for a week. So that was happening too. And Dan's in the Marines. Dan was in the Marine Corps. Yeah, he was a reconnaissance marine. Um, he did that for 10 years in total uh before the end. After about a year and a half of being married, I had I got pregnant with our first child, and he deployed when I was about four months pregnant.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

And so when he came back, the life that we had before he left was gone. It was new. I mean, I had a newborn baby. And so to me, at that time, that's when everything started, right? Like that's when things were started getting bad. But in reality, like looking back now with the knowledge I have about alcoholism and its progression, we were in stage three. Like, so there's five steps of alcoholism, and you don't really start noticing there's a problem until step three. But I mean, then you're halfway through. So that was step three for us, which was it the problems.

SPEAKER_02 3:39

There starts being problems that are what was step three in contrast to kind of like the beginning of the relationship.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Yeah. So so you guys probably already know this, but step one is just binge drinking, like beginning to drink, experiencing drinking. And then step two is building a tolerance. So those first two steps, if you're not looking for them, especially in our culture, they start. I mean, generally the first step happens when you're a teenager. Yeah. And then the second step happens when you're in college and everybody's drinking, and having a tolerance is kind of applauded in our culture. And so before he left, we were in stage two, I would say, where he was building a tolerance. But to me, who had not been around alcohol, my family didn't drink. I mean, I never was around it. My my dad, I've seen like drink a beer one time in my life. Oh, interesting. My mom never. So I was never exposed to it really. And so I started drinking and like drank a little in college, but for the most part, I was the DD all the time. I never liked the way it tasted. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

And in like social settings and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

So Dan's family, they were all social drinkers. Um, which not that I don't think any of them are alcoholics. Like I wouldn't say any of them are alcoholics, but they all drank and they had a household that was kind of, and I know a lot of people do this, and so I caution you with this mindset of I would rather they're gonna drink anyway. So I'd rather them drink at home where I can watch them. I'd rather all their friends come to my house and drink.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Yeah, we all had that friend.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Yes, we all had that friend. And unfortunately, you're starting step one of the process if your kid is, you know, because it's not everyone, but if your kid does have that like spiritual malady or that um, you're starting it very young. So you're kind of increasing, like getting them on the segue to alcoholism. So Dan was that kid where he was drinking very young. So back to us meeting and we would go out with friends, and I mean, he was in the military and they all drank in the military. And so we would go to bars and I would always have a beer. And I didn't, I it's not like I counted what he was drinking, and he never seemed drunk. But that's because he had such a tolerance built up. But you don't think that, you know, if you're not around drinking, if you're not looking for the signs, there are none. And so people used to ask me too like, were there any signs when you were dating or anything to make you think that he was an alcoholic? And I was like, no, and I never noticed anything. He was fine, he never got drunk. But now, like having the knowledge that I have, those were the signs. He could drink eight beers at a at a bar and not be drunk, which he was a big man. So I always hyped it up to that. Like, he's huge, like, of course he can drink.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

You know, that's really interesting. I long ago I did these two campaigns or one campaign with the military, and we they were trying to shift this image about drinking before their motto was, you know, uh in this subject was like always on duty. So you can drink as much as you want, but like you're always there. And that wasn't comfortable. So they went, they brought me on board to to bring some humor into it on like okay, these are real people, like, but then it was don't be that guy was the was the theme, and like, don't be that idiot. But both are this masking kind of yeah, it's really it now that it just dawned on me right there.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Right. And I don't have the solution for what the military should be doing. Right. If you think about it, what happens is they bring all these young men into a place, they shove them in a barracks where it's just men, and sometimes women are the voice of reason in our lives, right? Like we always have our mother. And then we have a girlfriend that kind of keeps us from going crazy. So they have all these men in the barracks and then they give them stress. I mean, they're stressed. High stress, yeah. And which is understandable. They need to be. I mean, you're preparing them to be soldiers. Like I'm a w I'm not saying that those things shouldn't be existing, but there is a disconnect where the only form of relief and like expression that they find is dragging kegs and on the and they tell them they can't have them and all of that, but they do. I mean I mean, I don't know if they've all been, but I've been to the barracks where they've had a keg party many times.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

What's interesting is like, you know, in in the in this field is like we to protect ourselves build these walls. Right. But like the military, like you're seeing P, you know, trauma that you're not humans aren't supposed to see. You have two different lives that these these walls are almost necessary, but yet if a problem happens behind one of those walls, how do you get how do you get through?

SPEAKER_00 7:43

I mean, we all know that one of the main things that triggers the alcoholism is the spiritual malady. And so we know that these men are being exposed to things and in high stress situations and then seeing traumatic events, and then also their one coping mechanism or their one bonding mechanism because they don't drink to be losers, like they are bonding over it. They're having fun. They do it. Um, if you've ever been to like an initiation where they like you get promoted to the next level or you become a reconnaissance or anything, they do um, I can't remember what they're called, but they're like little events where they all get together and they make you drink until you're throwing up. So they like it's not, it's not like they're all alcoholics by any means, but I do think that the culture breeds alcoholism.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yeah, it's and it's a community, a community that has a specific shared experience with that community. I mean, you were a part of it too, as a wife. And being in the middle of all that, how did that community like help? But also, is it a possibility that there was like a hindrance there, maybe not enough help? Oh, they didn't help at all.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Military does not help. If you're an alcoholic in the military, and I I would hope things have changed by now, but I would bet that they haven't. Um, if you're active duty and you're an alcoholic or you're struggling with some sort of addiction or mental health issue, you are afraid to tell anyone because you will lose your job and you will. They'll try for maybe 30 days to help you, and then if you don't buck up and suck it up, you're done. Does losing your job include like being kicked out? Oh, yeah, being kicked out. And there's your livelihood. And they'll try to kick you out dishonorably because if they don't kick you out dishonorably, then it's questioned why they didn't help. But the thing is, and the the colonel told me this to my face that um he had a piece of machinery that he could not use and he couldn't replace it until he was gone.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Oh, absolutely. In reference to your husband, my husband. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

And my husband had done 10 years reconnaissance brain, he had been on six deployments, he had been meritoriously promoted, and he had been on multiple special forces. He was one of the person people that like helped with some of the uh foreign embassies secure them when that one embassy was attacked, and he was one of the people that helped secure the other ones.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

It's like he did a lot for our country, and then the military said, okay, well, he's not working great anymore. So it's time to go.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

What about um like your friends within the community?

SPEAKER_00 9:59

So there were some that were wonderful, yeah, that were very helpful, but and I don't blame any of them because honestly, it's we all have our own things going on. And Dan was very respected, like very respected in the community. He had done a lot, he had been a leader amongst his peers, he was a good man, and so some of them felt like it was disrespectful for them to get involved. So out of respect for him, they kind of wanted me to handle it on my own. And in the beginning, because he was still putting on a very like happy face at work and going to work and doing what he needed to do. He was very um, what's the word when you're alcoholic based functioning? Yes. Do you think they could tell? I don't know. I would say that some that knew him best maybe saw that something was off. Yeah. Um, but a lot of them were just like, you know, he just got back from deployment, they let him power through it. Like it's fine, it'll it'll pass. Like it'll, it's kind of just like a he's readjusting to being a new dad. He's readjusting to coming home and he has a wife and a new baby. Like, give him some time to adjust. And so I did, but that wasn't the best solution. But there were some that just didn't want to hear it. Like they didn't want any part of it, you know, wipe your feet at the door kind of thing. And we don't want your dirt.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

You know, it's interesting. I've done a lot of work with veterans, which is is very communal and they do help each other out because but the but you didn't even get to that stage. You're in this that's a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Well, I will say that a lot of the men that he was close with, I would say were also struggling with some of the similar things he was. And so if I brought it up within our group, there were other people that had to face their demons as well, and they weren't ready for that. So blind leading the blind. It's like I I haven't hit that. And just because they hadn't like reached the deprecation that we had, we weren't as you know, they weren't as far. I would say that some of them were struggling with alcohol as well. And if they faced that Dan was having a problem, then their wives were like, Well, all these things she's saying are very similar to the things you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

I talk about that all the time. That would, you know, like when in in a family when you have somebody that's just that much more acute, it's like that's we're not that bad. Yeah. So I guess we're okay. No.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah. Well, and here's the thing. Like I said, I don't blame and I don't have like hard feelings towards anyone. I'm not upset. At the end of the day, looking back, I don't know what I would have done if it would have been my friend and she was going like I had a friend that um in the military and a military wife who she let me stay with her all the time. She would just kind of take me and my kid in and take care of us. So I did have people that were there, but as far as navigating the problem, the recovery aspect of it. People offer the help where they feel they can.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Yeah. I mean, uh your message, what I'm hearing, is it's not out of resentment or you know, or even even shame. It's really about, you know, trying to help and and and certainly gr overcoming grief.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

As but uh it it's a very positive thing, and which is a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Yeah. I mean, when people do ask me about this and I do talk about it, it is always because so on one side, it's for people who are just starting relationships and maybe not recognizing red flags that I would have recognized if I had heard this story from someone else. Right. Or on the other side, it's for that husband or that wife, the alcoholic, who thinks that they can't get better or thinks that it's not that big of a deal and can hear this story and see that, okay, well, my husband was 29 years old and he was a rock of a man that had deployed 10 times, he was six, four, two hundred and forty pounds of muscle, and he died. So there is an end and there is a there is a too late to change. So you have to decide if it makes sense for your family to live without you the rest of their lives or to make the hard choices today. Biggest, strongest people still need to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

So this is all on you, on your shoulders. Uh what was it that were like, all right, it stops here, and I in and what were the steps you took?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

So I took a lot of not good steps. So all the things you don't do in the beginning, I did all those things. So I yelled at him, I fought with him, I tried to control him, I tried to take his credit cards because I was like, well, if he doesn't have money, he can't spend money and he can't buy alcohol. Well, they find ways. So none of that works. All it does is drive you insane. And so um, the first year in North Carolina where we were, um, I was like pleading with him. I was, like I said, trying to control him, following him, trying to figure out where he was going. Because he would disappear for days. What are the things you're trying to control? So he's Okay, so he's disappearing, just straight up gone, like taking the car and nobody knows where he is. He's not answering. He's not answering his phone. I don't know, and no one, none of he's not with any of his friends. Can't air tag him. No, and I and I'm home with a newborn baby without another vehicle, and just kind of like, okay, well, if he dies, no one's gonna know because I have no clue where he is. And um, I would like that was the point where I started calling his friends, being like, I'm not, I don't want to drag you guys into it. And I and I don't want everyone in our business, but I don't know what to do and I don't know where he is. And I'm kind of worried, like, can someone go find him? But that started happening at first. Then we moved, we got stationed right about six months after his deployment when he this started. We got stationed in California. So we moved to California and that was gonna be our fresh start. Everything was gonna be different. Yeah, he he was gonna be better, he was gonna stop drinking. You know, he just was dealing with some stuff from the deployment, but everything was gonna be fine. So we move here and they put us in a hotel while we tried to buy a house. So for like a month, we're in a hotel. And I have a Saint Bernard, two cats, an infant, and me and Dan in a hotel room. And it was not pleasant. And so he would go to work during the day and take the vehicle, but then he wouldn't come home sometimes all night. And I'm home, I'm in this hotel with all these creatures.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

Well, you had a Saint Bernard. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Yeah, but I didn't have money because I was I was a stay-at-home mom, and so I would just wait for him to get home, um, which I started learning to steal the car before he left. But at this time, I wasn't expecting it.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

So I thought he was going to work and so that's a whole other resentment that's building. Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

And so the main point, I don't need to get into all the details, but essentially things were getting to the point where I felt very out of control of my life. And when you're married, so a lot of people reach out to me on social media and asking about their boyfriends. And I tell them, listen, if this is a problem now, do not get married. Because once you get married, it is your problem. Like what like everything that if they get a DUI, it's on you. Like at the time, once I started working again, I would have lost my license if he got a DUI. Like there are things that affect you directly and you cannot control them. Like, this is a human being that makes his own decisions and has his own choices. And whatever, if he wants to get better, he has to choose it. You can never do anything to make him change. Like he has to do it. He's sick, and until he decides to get healing, this is it. And so things were spiraling. I had no control of my life, and I was very overwhelmed. And when I'm overwhelmed, my child's overwhelmed. And so um, we finally bought a house, we move in, things would get better and then spiral, and then get better and then spiral. So just enough for me to like hold on, like just enough for me to have hope. Well, okay, he was sober for four weeks this time. So he can be sober. So he did have like little Yeah, he would have little spouts, and so I would be like, okay, and then and a lot of people are in get into this stage where it's it's you're in the fourth stage where your physical dependence. So he wants to be sober, he doesn't want to drink, but he can't. He can't say no. He has tremors, or he would get sweats, or he would get he would, you know, get anxious anxiety attacks. And so little by little he started trying to well just uh drink a little bit and hide it and she won't know. And but they can't do that. I'm drunk all the time staying.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

Well, there's there's there's another thing in recovery is uh rigorous honesty. And I I always thought like I was an I'm an honest person, of course I am. But not if you're like, how many beers did you have two? Like yeah, even the littlest uh dishonesty you think, but I'm not I'm not dishonest, but like that stays with you. Oh, yeah. You know, like deep down, like you're not being fully honest, especially with a spouse, and that that's chipping away at a relationship.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Well, and he would be drunk, and when you're when they're in that stage, they're probably making choices that they wouldn't normally make because the alcohol's kind of taken over. And not that that excuses it, but they do. Well, then when they get sober, what do they have? Like you said, you have the guilt and the shame, and you don't want to feel those things, especially as an alcoholic. You can't manage it. You're already managing all these other things that you're struggling with. So what do you do? You drink again because you don't, and so it's a continuous cycle until you face the underlying foundation of what's causing your spiritual malady. You just keep cycling because when you're sober, you don't want to face the things that you did when you're drunk. So to keep from doing that, you drink again, so you don't have to face it, and just it's a continuous numbing cycle. And with Dan and I, it was I wanted to be forgiving because you know, I'm yeah, I'm Christian. And so for me, it's I don't believe in an excuse to leave your spouse. Like there's very few excuses in my like for me personally, not judging anyone else. But for me, I couldn't find it, I couldn't find an excuse to leave him. I wanted to be the forgiving, loving, supportive wife. And so I wanted to keep staying there. This sounds bad though. I would literally scour the Bible, like, there's gotta be a way in here. So I remember doing that so many times. I'd be like, there's gotta be one reason in here of something he's done. Um, but anyways, I couldn't find it. So I stayed. But when he would get sober and I would say, like, I forgive you, I just want you to get sober. I can, I can forgive these things and you get sober. I was a reminder to him of the things that he felt like he wasn't doing. So then he had more guilt because I'm just forgiving him and he knows all the things he had done. And so he didn't want to face me. So the one good thing that could anchor him in his life was the one thing he couldn't face. And so it was just against like him. He was just hitting his head against a wall.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Yeah. And you sit there and you you you support, you don't want to leave. You are searching, but they're you're not gonna find it because you know in your heart that's not something you want to do. But you also want like your husband back. Right. And you want this. How do you separate those? Like this, this is my husband, but this isn't this isn't my husband.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

What eventually was kind of the breaking point for me is that like you said, and I used to call him Jekyll and Hyde because he was a perfect man when he was sober. A per I mean, I'm I know that that sounds silly, but he was handsome and perfect and sweet and kind and loving and hardworking, and he was funny and he was literally perfect. Like if I if you could create a perfect man, it was Dan. And then when he was drunk, he was the worst human being on the planet. The most manipulative, conniving, careless, like just uh did things where I was like, what is I would be I would literally be like, what is happening? Would it happen every time he was drinking? Every time he was drinking. He wasn't violent, he never put his hands on me or anything like that, which I tends to come with alcoholism, which that's how perfect he was, is that he was able to not do that as a horrible drunk. Um they used to call him the gentle giant, but he never did anything like that. But he was, he did, um, there was like a lot of emotional abuse and like trauma. For me, that was what keep me holding on. When he was sober, I'd be like, that's that's really Dan. Well, those windows would get shorter and shorter. And then I also would try to convince myself that I was keeping it separate from my child. So I was, which at this time I have an infant, okay? And when we moved to California, I had another baby. And so I had just had Calvin and he had open heart surgery. So we were in the hospital. As soon as I had him, he had to have open heart surgery. Dan disappeared. So the day after I had him, we can't find Dan. After surgery or after surgery? After I had they take my baby. I had him, they take him to open his heart up to give him because he had um uh transposition of the great vessel. So your aorta and your pulmonary artery are backwards, and they have to switch them, or you'll die. It's because the blood won't pump through your body. So they take my baby and Dan said he's gonna go home, get Everett and my mom, which Emperor's my son, and bring them down to the hospital so they can be with all of us. And so I'm like waiting, and I'm waiting, and the day turns into night. And then I call my mom, I'm like, Did Dan pick you guys up? And she was like, No. Okay. Then I call Dan, he doesn't answer, call McKenzie, he doesn't answer. Then he finally gets my mom and brings me. Her down, and then he's I don't remember what his what he was gonna go do something for work or go do something, I don't remember. But so then my mom and my son are with me in the hospital, and Dan's gone. And we can't find him. Finally, we ended up getting like into the Ronald McDonald house because my son was gonna be there for like seven weeks. Um, and so we're in the Ronald McDonald house and we can't find Dan. So finally I literally had just had a baby, and I get a my get the get a car and I go search for him. I check I found a charge on our card to an ATM and I go get the address of that ATM and I go to that ATM and it's in the middle of nowhere. Oh, postpartum. See it's diapers and everything. This, oh yeah, I was literally in the postpartum diaper. Oh my gosh. Okay, you pack sandwich. Well, because I'm honestly at this point, it was so bad that I was like, he's going to die. Like he's going to kill someone else in a car accident, or because he's drinking and driving at this point. Like he's doing all he's he's doing all the things. So, anyways, I go search for him. I eventually find him. I'm not going to say where I found him because I don't want my kids to ever see this, but it wasn't a good place. Yeah. And he's inebriated on the front lawn of this place because they won't even let him in. So that's how drunk he is. So, and it was like the baby was like a trigger, which he wanted to have another baby. So I, which a lot of people are like, Why do you have another kid when he was getting sober? You, when you're in this stage, you try everything.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

You try every you think, you think if I could just give them more good, if I could just put more good in their life, it'll be enough. I just put a little more good. If I'm a little kinder, a little nicer, a little more supportive, if he has another baby, if he has a more loving wife, if I have sex with him more, like you as a wife who support, and I mean anyone who watches this will say, You you try everything because you just think like this is something bad and I just will smother it with good. I can fix it. I can fix it, but you cannot. So that happened. And after that, I was like, oh, this is it. Like, this is the end. I will raise two children by myself. You we are done. And I was like, you until you are sober for 30 days and and actively working to get better, yeah, I am done. This is right after you had your second. Now, mind you, I've said this exact thing 500 times. Okay. Like I've said, that's it. This is the end. That's, you know, if I see another charge on our card, they just get more sneaky and you get more for dipping.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

Did you have any other did you have any other support? Like, my mom. Yeah. Thank God, my mom.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

My mom and my dad were very supportive. My dad was supportive because he had been very had been through a lot of trauma. When he was young, he was raised by an alcoholic abusive father. And so he was very empathetic to Dan because he knew that there was something under because he always loved his dad and knew that, like, yeah, like he was constantly forgiving of his father, of like there was something wrong and that he which you shouldn't excuse that. My family loved Dan. Yeah. Like everyone loved, I can't say it enough. He was very loved. And my dad, no one looked at him like he was the bad guy. They all looked at him like he needed help. Like he needs help. This man needs help. There's something wrong. And so my dad would talk to him and stuff. And sometimes I'd feel like it would help. My dad would, you know, read the Bible with him because he would disappear. And the only person whose phone he would answer is phone for my dad. My dad would read the Bible with him. And things like that would help a little. Yeah. Um, but it would only reel him in so much. And then he'd boop off the cliff again. And so I made the hard stop after uh Calvin and he uh like fully repented and and stopped drinking for 60 days. How was how were those 60 days? They were amazing. But every day I was like, it's gonna I'm not gonna get ex I'm not getting my hopes up.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Because it's you know that he's gone 30 days before. He's gone 45 days before, he's gone 50 days before. Okay, he's been two months and he has not drank. What was he saying in those 60 days? He was he was very anxious, he was constantly doing stuff. He I would wake up at like 6 a.m. He'd be cleaning the whole house. So he was he was managing it barely, which I didn't know then. I do know now, looking back, I see that putting in a lot of mental work to do.

SPEAKER_03 25:57

You see a change, you know, if you're like drunk and now you're sober, it's like, okay, that's a change, but that's not the real change.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

It's not like you're you're just waiting you're just waiting for the rope to snap.

SPEAKER_01 26:09

So it's getting tighter and tighter and tighter.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

I want that person back. Yeah. Yeah, he changed back to that. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

And he when you're an alcoholic, and again, I'm I'm not one, so I don't want to feel like I'm overstepping, but when from from the outside looking in as an alcoholic, he was always there, but it's like here's Dan, this perfect Dan, this perfect person who doesn't, you know, who loves people around him and treats people well and is kind and good. Um, but then something bad happens and it's like this big and it sits on top. And then you pour alcohol on it and it grows and grows and grows and grows and grows. And so until you start shaving that off and putting it away into boxes that you can manage, it's just gonna get bigger. And so when we're up here and he's saying I'm not gonna drink anymore, he's not doing anything about this problem that has grown this big, and he's just carrying it around and carrying it around and carrying it around. And like we have to put it away.

SPEAKER_03 27:02

Or people that the way I I say it is as humans, we've become collectors of trauma. Yeah. And we're not even aware of it. And at best, we like throw it like down, bury it, like, okay, I'll collect more until we can't keep it down anymore. And all of a sudden, it it has to get out and explodes. And people are like, Why are you angry? I'm like, for that little stupid thing. I'm like, I don't know, honestly, I don't know. We didn't deal with all the stuff that we were collecting until boom, here you go.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

And something that somebody might say is small becomes big and bleeds into every little thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Every little very quickly becomes a yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Did you try and find like a facility for him at any point? Like when it came to looking for treatment for him, what was that experience like?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

So I didn't look for a treatment center for a long time because one of his heart, one of the main things with Dan is he didn't want anyone's help. He could do it. Yeah, he was fine.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

I'm wearing the cape.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yes, I've got this. I can do it. I don't need your help. I don't need their help. I don't need to go to a doctor, I don't need to go to psychologist, I don't need any of this. I don't want to talk about it. Which, if you didn't need help, you wouldn't reach for the bottle because that's the help you're seeking. Yeah, it's just the wrong help. So you're seeking help, it's just poison. Yeah. Um, so I didn't for a long time. Then I finally, the first person I reach, well, I reached out to my family, reached out to his family. It wasn't the right kind of help. Um, it was somewhat supportive, but it was not the right kind of help. Then I reach out to our church. And while I think they had good intentions, it just wasn't their specialty. And I'm a main, I'm a huge believer in like God can fix it. And I do believe, I strongly believe that he's fixed things in my life that I could not have fixed by myself. But if that's not your faith, like if your faith is not like God can fix it and he will, you won't let him. Like you won't, you have to at least have that foundation. So that didn't help him. I tried to get him to go to, I don't mean I don't want to say that there was a recovery center in the area that I that had a really good retention rate. And I wanted him to go there too, but we knew someone there. And again, he doesn't like it. It's like he didn't want anyone to know him and know he had a problem. And at one point, I I've you mentioned this earlier, but he went, he just Googled centers close to him and then just showed up at some of the closest place and they wanted to charge him a ridiculous amount of money to go there. And it was a resort. So I didn't I did not know of an of a, I mean, like recovery.com. If I had known something like that existed, I don't know if it existed back then, but if it did, it would have been helpful. But I didn't know that there was somewhere you could go in and say, like, these are the specific things I need, and this is my price range, and I need something in this area. And and also I think that treatment is such a broad term. And people that don't know anything about alcoholism or about the treatments behind it, you don't even know what you're looking for. So when you go in there and you see like all these different treatments, you can go in and read what is, I don't even know what this is. And then you can figure out what makes the most sense or what you feel could be helpful or would be the best situation for whatever.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

This podcast is brought to you by recovery.com. Recovery.com is a place where anyone can find mental health or addiction treatment options specific to them. You can filter by location, price, insurance coverage, therapy type, mental health conditions, levels of care, and so much more. Recovery.com is the place to find mental health or addiction treatment for anyone anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

But you know what else is really needed? And particularly for you know, like what you described, is like when you're at that, you have no knowledge, you don't know anything. You don't know anything. And you're talking about somebody who's trained, like I need to, but I need to know. So that had to be really scary of like not knowing anything about this disease that I have or treatment or whatever, and like Google and go. Yeah. Like so knowledge and getting own ownership back of who you are and what you need, and not be at the risk of like asking everyone, just having that control again.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Right. One thing that I get asked a lot from people that reach out to me on social media that are going through something similar is did you notice any red flags? Like, was there any red flags in the beginning that you would have that you could have seen? And I always used to say no. But the reality is, it's not that there were no red flags. I didn't know anything. I didn't know anything about alcoholism. I didn't know that it was a progressive disease. I didn't know there's five stages of alcoholism. I didn't even know what to look for. But now that I know, I can look back and see, like, oh, there were sages of like a high tolerance. There were sages of binge drinking, but everyone else was doing it. So, and here's the thing. Like I said, there are some of the things, like, just because you go out and drink a lot doesn't mean you're an alcoholic. Right. Just because you go drink with your friends doesn't mean you're an alcoholic. And I don't want it to seem like that's what I'm saying. However, if you say, if you're dating someone and you say, like, hey, I we've drank a lot this week, let's go a week without drinking, and he can't do that or she can't do that, that's maybe a red flag. And that was something that I noticed where back then, like I said, it didn't occur. I mean, he was still kind, he was still good, he never seemed drunk, he was still functioning, he's still going to work. But remembering, like, there are stages, it progresses. But if you're not aware of those things, that's why it's important to talk about this stuff because somebody can be, like I was, completely ignorant to it, dating someone who's showing very clear signs of progressive alcoholism and have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 32:17

So you talked a little bit about the support structure you had, kind of go into more on that because you it's almost all the air is sucked out of the room by this. Like, what like what's left for me to breathe?

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Oh, for sure. And I I did feel like that's one of the things I talk about a lot is the loss of control of your life when you're married. And I I had so much focus on my kids, because I had two young kids at the time, and I'm trying to fix my husband, but I'm also trying to shelter my kids from this because I don't believe in like at the end of the day, he's a grown man and they're little babies, and I'm responsible for them. Like once they came to this world, like I care for you and I love you, and I'll support you, but I can only do so much because I will not put them at risk for you. Right. You can protect yourself, they cannot. And so after the 60 days, he started drinking again, which is how this ended up like kind of finding ahead. Through all of this, my mom, I was talking to her a lot, and she put up a second mortgage on her home. She lived in West Virginia. She took a second mortgage out of her home, not a second mortgage, like a mortgage, because it was paid off. So she took a mortgage out of her home so she could have money and quit her job and moved out here and lived with me. And if she hadn't done that, I literally don't know what I would have done when I had Calvin, my second kid.

SPEAKER_03 33:23

From West Virginia to San Diego. Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

That's a good thing. That's saying a lot. And she lived with me for two years until I got back home. Because at the time, I was a stay-at-home mom. I did not have a job. We were living off his income. He was getting in trouble at work. He was about to get kicked out. I have a new, I am pregnant, and then I had a new baby, and I have a two-year-old. I'm like, if I literally called my mom, I'm like, I don't even want to ask you, but I don't know what to do. I have a baby in surgery at one point, and then I have a two-year-old, and then Dan's gone. Disappeared. I'm like, okay. Well, I don't know what to do. So my mom was here and she literally saved me. That's so she, I mean, she is a godsend.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

Big shout out to your mom. Big shout out to my mom.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Obviously.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Yeah. Okay. She's helped a lot. You've got your mom helping out. You've drawn this hard line in the sand. Like, this isn't fun, like, this isn't functional anymore. This isn't a thing. Where does that take? Yeah. So I next.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

And just to be clear, because people are like, oh, you're so strong. You made a hard stop. It took me four years to make a hard stop. So I'm not that strong. You're drawing that same line every day. I did. I got a nice thick one. I gave him the so many ultimatums, but at the end of the day, I loved him and I wanted him. So after he got drunk the last time after the 60 days of sobriety, which is funny because it's not funny. But uh, I literally, when I accepted that he was gonna be sober, I like accepted. Oh, it was our uh seventh wedding anniversary, April 25th. It was also his birthday. We were gonna go out to dinner. I got home from work because I had started working again because we were, you know, not sure what was happening. I got home and he, I could, I could tell that he'd been drinking. I don't know how to explain it. And if you are around an alcoholic, you'll know, or if you've been an addict or an alcoholic, he could take one sip of alcohol and I could see it in his eyes. Like, I don't know how to explain it. It was like something went up, like something wasn't there. Yeah. And as soon as I came in and sat down at the table, I like I saw it. And I was like, oh no. And I like tried to talk myself out of it. I was like, you're paranoid. He's not drunk. He's he didn't drink. And then finally I couldn't take it anymore. I'm like, did you drink? And then he freaked out. He was like, I would as soon as he did that, I was like, oh no, he did.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

But like during that, did you ever like sometimes you you you have that like it's there, like you're expecting it?

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Like Yeah, I did. I was and I tried and I never said anything about it because I was so afraid that I would say it and it would make it happen. So I never brought it up. I pretended like we would always been this way, which I wanted to talk about the things that were underneath, but I was afraid to trigger the league.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Like, let's give it time, right? I don't want him to feel like we're nay, I'm naying, like he's doing good.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

If he's doing good, right, I'm just gonna be here when he needs me, and that's it. We're gonna have a good, happy life. Everyone loves him. Maybe if he sees everyone loves him, look, everybody loves him. Everett loves his dad, Calvin loves his dad. If you fake it till you make it, maybe it'll be like that.

SPEAKER_03 36:08

But you're looking, you're you're you're you're so focused on that like event that you know is coming or think is coming, believe it's coming, but you also want to be focused on like I want to see that other person coming back to me. Right. And like you have this like so much effort on both. You're looking at it.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

It's a balance of fear and hope for sure.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

And so he he went off the handle at me because I accused him of drinking, which he had been, and then he spiraled that night. So he got drunk. This was so it was April 25th, he left. He would like leave and come back, leave and come back for a couple days. And then one day he was we were in our room and he something happened and Everett almost got hurt. And it was it was like that, like a wide, like someone had like pulled the cover off my face. And I remember just looking at him, and like in my head, I thought to myself, is saving him worth losing him? And that's what I thought in my head, because I was like, Oh, I I I'm gonna I'm gonna play this out for so long that one of my children is gonna die. Like it was, it was like someone whispered it in my ear. And I remember I I just looked at him and I was like, you have to go. You have to get out. Like, you can't be here. I can't do this anymore. Like, you cannot come back here until you're sober. And I said, I was like, I won't leave you, I won't divorce you, I'm still your wife, and I still love you, and these are still your kids, and this is still your home, but you cannot be here until you're sober. And he left. He was really drunk at that time. And then I woke up at like three in the morning and I had Everett in bed with me and Calvin and his like little bassinet. And I woke up at like three in the morning and he was pacing in front of my bed and he was talking to himself, and he was just coming out of drunkenness. I could tell he was like getting sober, and he was saying to himself, like, we can fix it, we can fix it, it'll be okay, it'll be okay. And I just got up and I was like, Dan, I love you, but this is there, there are no more exceptions. Like, you have to go. And he left, and that night I saw a charge on our card for a plane ticket to Connecticut, which is where his parents lived, and so he went to Connecticut. And that was the last time I ever saw him alive.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

And then he gets to Connecticut. Do you talk while he's yeah?

SPEAKER_00 38:09

We did talk. It was not they were never good. Um, he would call sometimes and say, like, oh, this I'm gonna get sober. I miss you guys, I love you guys, I want to be a good dad. But I at that point, my hope I never got my hopes up again after that. Um, I would always say, Okay, well, here's the recovery center information. Like, you can go here and or you can go to one of your choosing. I don't care, but until you've like you're making no effort. Oh, I I stopped drinking. I'm I'm not drinking anymore. Like I can tell you what it is. I I don't want to No, that's yeah. So his parents, I don't think they just I just think they didn't know what to do and they did their best. I just think they thought maybe similar to me, where they thought that just let him work it out. Maybe I don't know, or they were afraid to trigger things, but I think it just kind of they they were helpful, they tried to be helpful in the way they knew how they did. They would call me and ask me if I needed money and um if there's any way they could help the kids. They called the kids, they would come out for Christmas and see my so they they did what they thought was best.

SPEAKER_03 39:03

Well, and you know, like with all the things going all the train wrecks that you know you caught, like you're gonna run to a place of safety, yeah, where you're not gonna run to a place that like he went to a place where he thought he did not have to face anything.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yes, for sure. He went later accountability. Because at this time, you have to remember, we're I'm still in a place where everyone thinks it's me. So this has been going on for years, and everyone thinks it's me. I'm I'm over one of his best friends came out and stayed with us for a week, and I was like, perfect. Brendan will see, like he'll he'll get it. Because all of his friends and I were very close. They were very kind to me. But after a week of being there, Dan had convinced him that I was just an overbearing wife and he didn't have a problem. And he told me that. And I was like, okay, great, okay, great. And so, but then he went to Connecticut with his family family and friends. And as much as I'm not happy how things turned out, I am glad that they turned out the way they did in the way they did because one, he he was gone for a year. So if it was me, like if I was the problem, oh yeah, I wasn't even there.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

And two, it was worse. He was worse out there. He was spiraled worse. And I don't think it's their fault. I think it was because he was away from consequences. At least here he had to keep, you know, trying to like hone it in and try to get better because well, I don't want to lose these things. I actually because I do think he cared about us.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

Well, yeah. I mean, obviously, or your and your kids, obviously. Right. He didn't want to do this in front of the right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

So I think he got out there and it was kind of like, well, free range. She doesn't know what I'm doing. I'm, you know, I mean, yeah, and it was not good. I mean, to give you perspective, within one year, he had killed himself. So and he's 28 years old, 29 when he died. So between 28 and 29.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Wow. Your story is like a story of of love, but it's also a story of uh trauma. You're like in one, you've got all of this wonderful thing that happened, you know, that happened in your life, but you also had this incredible traumatic experience. Like, how do you like that's that's incre usually it's it's all about the trauma, and I'm trying to overcome the trauma, but my overcoming the trauma, like, I don't want to lose that all the good.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:19

What did you do?

SPEAKER_00 41:21

So I am a firm believer that like life is not supposed to be easy. I think that a lot of people think that. They think, well, life is bad, everything's bad. But just because bad things happen to you in your life, I mean, like, God sharpens his tools. And not that it was about me, but I mean, from my like part of the story, I think that I went through something very difficult, but I never went through it alone. And um sorry, I don't want to get emotional, but um like God took care of me in ways I couldn't have taken care of myself. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so like now in my life, I am so happy. Like I have such a great life. I would have loved to have Dan there, but he's not. But I have like a great family, great friends, I have wonderful children. I have a part of Dan, you know?

SPEAKER_03 42:04

Well, you're you're I and I'm sure that part of your your your recent journey is to, and I think a lot of people have lost somebody this disease, is now you get to separate that addictive person to this person that you really for his kids. Well, I mean for you, like I don't want to live with that. I don't want to carry that person around. Oh, for sure. Like I want this person with you saying that.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

I it's funny that you say that because in my mind they are two different people. Like when I think back, they are like this person, they're different.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

I needed to separate that with you know with my own brother. Yeah, I don't want to carry that. Like I now I'm left with this person that like I truly cared about, but I couldn't go there fully with this other person still there.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Because that like resentment will pop up or guilt or shame, like you know, like and I know that everyone has different perspectives, and it's obviously not a scientific explanation of addiction or alcoholism, but a lot of times it happens to people when something very traumatic happens to them. Like, and it to me, it feels like it opens a door to a demon in your soul. And so there's like something evil that is latched onto you that was entered you through that trauma. And so when you enable someone who's an addict, you're not actually helping that person, you're making them weaker. So that thing that has attached themselves to their soul is stronger and has more strength and bearing over them. And so until you're able to say, like, I'm not going to enable this thing that has taken over this person that I love anymore, that will, that's the only thing that will give them the strength to fight it because you can't fight it for them. Like they have to fight it. Yeah. There are tools that can help them fight it, but you can't do that for them.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

Do you find yourself talking to and helping people more on the I've been through this, you're going through this, I've been through this. Here, here's what I've learned. Or um, this have like the the healing part is it is

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Is it the oh I can help I can help you or is it the So I would like to help on the healing part more, but people mostly come to me that are in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_03 44:07

In the middle of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

And it's it's difficult to give advice because I like I said, I did all the wrong things. Like I did all the wrong things for years. I I enabled him for years. And it wasn't until and then and then on top of it, when I finally did put my foot down and stop enabling him and I made that choice, I didn't get the happy ending that people want. You know, like he died. Is that what people want to hear? Like put your foot down and he might die. But the important thing to take from it that I think is really important is that your life isn't less important because you love someone who is addicted or has an alcoholic like a addiction. Like you're not a like catalyst to this person. You are a person too, and you have a life. And making sure that you protect yourself. I'm not saying to because I I'm not a huge I put myself before others person. So I don't want to add, I mean, I know that we do advocate for that, but I do also think like you should protect yourself. And a lot of people put themselves in harm's way to try to save a loved one that's in the midst of this. And I don't advocate for that at all. Yeah, you don't fill someone's cup up if you're empty. A hundred percent. It's not a good thing. Yeah. I don't want to say I'm like the most moral or no, because I will say during this time, there are things that I did that looking back, like if I wanted shame to consume me, it easily could. Like if I wanted the guilt and shame to take over, there are so many things that I did that maybe made him worse. You know what I'm saying? That I could tell myself. I could say, wow, if I hadn't done that one thing, make maybe it would have, but you can't do that because at the end of the day, yeah, you you are a person too. We're human beings. And like I was so out of control my life. I was so emotionally and mentally abused and drained. I had no like concept of what I was even trying to manage. I was trying to do all the right things, but I wasn't, you know, like there was so much going on and like there was infidelity because when he was drunk, he was not, you know. So and I was trying to forgive that like constantly because I'm in my head, I'm like, well, he's true, he would never do this sober. Yeah. And I I just want him to get like so. There was all these things going on where I made really poor decisions. And at the end of the day, with him dying, with me having that outcome, I could be overwhelmed with guilt. But I just one tell myself that nothing I could have done different would have changed the choices that he made. He is a human just like I am, and he chose the things he chose, not me. Like I I I didn't choose to give up and abandon my kids because I was so sad. Like I could have, but I didn't. At the end of the day, like you can't be responsible for the choices of another person. You can only be responsible for the choices that you make. Now, women that have kids or men that have kids that are dealing with an alcoholic or addicted spouse, I I feel very strongly about this. You are a control of you and you're in control of your children. And so if you spend so much time trying to fix this person that you risk them, can you deal with the guilt of losing a child because you made different decisions? Or can you deal with the guilt of you maybe didn't handle it perfect, but that person chose and you lost that person? Because I can tell you right now that the what I deal with today, the minimal amount of shame and guilt that I deal with and give to God to deal with on my behalf over losing Dan because he chose not to go and get help, is way better than if I'd have lost one of my children because I didn't put up a boundary that needed to be put there for them.

SPEAKER_03 47:18

And a lot of people do this, like all that effort you do to change that person may create some change, but it's not sustainable. And it's you can't keep it up, and you like put all this effort in and you saw a little bit of change, and then it it's gone. So like all that effort like to change somebody didn't achieve anything, and it certainly didn't help.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah. Someone said to me once that I was that alcoholism and trauma is kind of like giving someone a dresser in your house when you love someone and they're putting all this stuff in the drawers and the drawers are overflowing. And at the end of the day, if you don't help them organize the drawers and get them nice and clean and put away to where they can open them and look at them without feeling guilt or feeling upset, all you're doing is letting them overfill them in your house. So like you're not helping anything. You're there in your house, but you're not, and it's gonna eventually overflow to you as well. Like you're not actually helping them go. They need to go through and figure out where things go and put them away and be able to look at them without spiraling.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

And I know that's really hard because we all have trauma in our life, and it some of Dan's was horrific. So it and especially as a man, I think when you grow up and something happens to you as a little boy, sometimes as a man, it's really, really hard to face, especially in our culture. And so none of it's easy, but you have to have to face it. You have to face it, you have to be able to endure it and know that like this happened to me, it's not who I am. And like I I have a good life now, and I I am in control of what I have now. I don't need to carry that around with me.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

I strongly believe you didn't need any of this to happen to you to be a strong person. Um but it takes it takes a lot of work to get where you've gotten, especially after everything that you've been through. Um what what are some of the things that you grabbed onto in those moments over the last few years to help you after the death of your husband? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Uh one, I would say number one is God. I I I mean, I know I say that a lot, but I don't believe that you can do anything without him. So um, and there are so many things that are like, I cannot even explain the solution that came to me and it wasn't of my doing. Does that make sense? Like things happened in my life during all of this where it was not of my control and it there was solutions. Yes, many times. Um, that would be number one. And then family, I had family and friends that even if they couldn't help in the situation, they're very supportive of me as a person and um also my kids. I think some people think that the story's more tragic because I have children when in reality, without them, I don't know how I absolutely have two beautiful, wonderful children that look like little clones of their father. That's wonderful. I love that. So that perfect man, I made two of them. They're gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

I love the way you speak about him. Like I'm smiling listening to you talk about him because you light up to speak about the Jekyll and not the hype. Yeah, the Jekyll. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

He it was funny too because he was, I never so I was kind of a picky dater, which was like a joke among my friends. I would be like, he has to be six four, he has to have abs. I was like so shallow and ridiculous. And then I met him and I was like, look, I told you he can manifest he's real. And then he we it was funny too because I was like, I they always used to tell me, well, you just have to accept that he'll be dumb because you can't have brute and brain. They would tell me that like you just have to, and I would be like, No, he'll be smart. Yeah, and then I met him and they were like, Oh, he's gonna be dumb. He was so like he was so stupidly smart. We would play Jeopardy and he would know things where I'm like, where did you even learn that? When did you learn about that flower in Africa that heals people like that have like eczema? Like, where when? When did you learn that?

SPEAKER_03 50:50

Um it was he was so very smart. What's wonderful, I'm just thinking of like that, that's because I like I'm hearing that story too. Like, that's a gift now that you get to give to your kids. Yeah. Like that you have that, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And not this other, like, I you know, and I people ask me like what I'm gonna tell them.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

And they so they know that he died. I tell them, because I'm sure that there are people that are asking this question are having to face this. So when they ask how he died, I tell them, like, you know how your body can get sick? Because I'm explaining this at the point to like a four and a fixed six-year-old. So you know how your body can get sick, and sometimes you can't get better. You there's sometimes there's just not a cure. Well, your brain can get sick too, and there's sometimes not a cure for that. And I mean, it takes a lot of work and it's really hard to make it better. And sometimes people can't do that and they just have to let go. And I said, I tell them that's what I'm doing. So they don't know the alcohol part of it yet. And I don't know when I'm gonna share that I will someday, but I don't want them to have that fear of like maybe it'll happen.

SPEAKER_03 51:49

Do you know how healthy that is? Like you what you just said was like a reflection of like just all this this this great work. I I've talked to a lot of people that still carry that that you know resentment and shame. It's like you need to know the real story, like of this person. Like, uh, you know, that you're you're not seeing it the right way, or you're or you're not you haven't right, you haven't done that work.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Well, you haven't really healed. And here's the thing there's a lot of forgiveness that goes into it. And when I hear stories like that, to be honest, you have to forgive them, but you also have to forgive yourself. And sometimes when you hear those stories and they're talking about all the things they did, it's not like deep down, it's really that they carry shame and guilt. Yeah. And they're trying to convince themselves that because they haven't forgiven themselves yet either.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

And so you carry a lot of pain with that, and you always will. And you like it's you can't change anything that happened. You can't change anything you did. You can't change how the outcome affected you or your family or others around you. It is what it is, and it's done. And you have to forgive yourself. And all you can do is help people around you or make the world a little better than you found it, but you can't change it.

SPEAKER_03 52:54

Well, and one of the and one of the one of my favorite sayings is we tell our stories because we don't heal in isolation.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Yeah, yeah. Sure.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

And that just doesn't stop. Like, I'll be telling my story forever, whether it's from my own addiction or or this loss of a love, and like it's still a recovery that I'm always gonna have. And I can't do that alone.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

And I bet for you it's I mean, I don't know if you talk about this, but having it in the public eye the way that your family did, I can't imagine like I mean, it was bad enough that a few close people knew what was happening.

SPEAKER_03 53:31

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

No, it was the whole world knowing.

SPEAKER_03 53:34

For some reason, I just knew, as I said, I needed to talk about it. It was it was so out there and traumatic. I and I needed to talk about it. And I I see members of my family that haven't done that, yeah, and I still see them carrying that pain. Uh that hurts, but I can't heal them.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

Right. I can only do this, and that's why I do that, and that's why you I feel the same about family members where I've I've I do know some that don't talk about it. And I I try really hard to talk about Dan a lot. I talk about Dan with my kids. Like one time Calvin went to school and they did like a Father's Day thing, and the teacher texted me and was like, I didn't know Calvin's dad passed away. You should have told me. And I was like, Why would I tell you that? It didn't just happen. Like it's yeah, he's his dad passed away. I was should I send him with like a shirt or um and like I was like, what a wild thing to say. And she was like, Well, we did Father's Day stuff today. I'm like, he has the dad. He's passed away, but he has a father. Like easily celebrate him. Like he can make a card for him, or he can make one for my dad, either way. But I don't take that away from me. I feel like a lot of people, like when someone dies or someone loses a parent, it's like, okay, well, don't bring him up. It's like, yeah, I'm not doing that. It's not healthy, that's not a healing mechanism. You deserve to my kids talk about our dad. I tell them all every time, oh my gosh, my oldest looks like his clone. He literally stands like him. There's no way he remembers that stance. How do you inherit the way someone stands? He like stands against the wall like Dan. You he does it to me sometimes, and I'm like, it's like shocking. But I tell him all the time, I'm like, You look just like your dad. You stand like your dad, you talk like your dad, because it's important to do that. And I do notice sometimes when we're around certain family members that I I because I do it with them too. Sometimes I can't tell if it makes them uncomfortable. And uh it makes me sad. Yeah. Because I want them to be able to talk about him and remember the good things about him.

SPEAKER_03 55:21

My mom says that once in a while. Like she's like, Oh, you remind me of your father. You're at his age, uh, you have the same hair loss. I'm like, Okay.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

Dad says about his mom and she had hair loss.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Glad I'm reminding you of that. All right, that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

I think, yeah, I I could imagine for your kids that would feel really good. Oh, they they tell me all the time.

SPEAKER_00 55:41

Do you know what's funny though? Like, is I've tried to date. I don't just literally can't. Oh, I've tried to date, and my sons will say, Is he stronger than our dad? I'm like, no, he's not nobody. Yeah. And then he'll come over and they'll be like, because they've met one person ever, which funny enough, the guy that they met was one person who I'm still good friends with. And he he had been sober for uh seven years when I met him. He's been sober for 11 years now. And he is one of the people that helped me understand because I blamed myself a lot. And he really, he like talked about, he helps some do like San Diego Nasty Paw, which is like young people, yeah, and A and stuff. And he talked to me a lot about like how alcoholism works and the disease and like how I couldn't have done anything. So I some people were really like brought into your life at a time that you really need them, and I think that he was, but he would come over and my kids would be like, just so you know, my dad was way stronger.

SPEAKER_02 56:28

I love that. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 56:30

But it's it's it's funny because you're in your mind, you're like going, Well, all right, I'm not gonna do better.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

Yeah, my mom said that too. She's like, How are you gonna do better? How are you gonna do better?

SPEAKER_03 56:40

Sorry, like, let's reframe that then.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

No, I'm just it's you know, I mean, there's I'm there's lots of wonderful men out there. I'm also not, I'm I am in a good place in my life and I love my kids and I like what we have, and I'm afraid of like inserting someone and messing it up. So I don't really date or anything now, but um, it's just funny because they're it any it's not even just dating, it's any man. If we're watching a movie, like we we I love Chris Pratt and I talk and I'll watch a movie and Chris Pratt will be in the bike. Do you think he's more handsome than our dad? I'm like, no, stop asking me that.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Oh, that's funny. I love hearing you talk about your life now. That's really good to hear. Wow. Yeah, it seems it seems like you're in a good spot, and I love that you are at a place to share your story and everything that's happened. Yeah, um for people that are maybe that were in your shoes in the beginning or finding out during stage three or even in the dating part, what is some advice that you have to give to them?

SPEAKER_00 57:36

Yes. Um, so for one, people that are in the dating arc, if you're starting to re recognize red flags um or st or signs of alcoholism, I would put like a strong stop on in on moving forward. That doesn't mean you have to break up or you can't be with them or you can't help them or anything of that nature. But once you are married to someone who's having this issue, you're a part of it whether you like it or not. When you're dating, if it gets bad enough or you become in danger, it's you can easily separate yourself from the problem. But so I I'm I hear women all the time, and uh forgive me for saying just women, I know that women are alcoholics too, but I generally women reach out to me. So that's my um experience. But when women reach out to me, it's it's generally like they're engaged and they have brought it up. And he's saying he doesn't have a problem, but he won't stop drinking and da-da-da. And they're comfortable move, they want to fix it so they can move forward to get married. And my advice is don't do that. Not that you can't marry them ever or it won't work out, but just if there's a problem now, that is remember, it's progressive. So it's going to be a bigger problem later. And if he's not even willing to accept that he has a problem right now, then you are setting yourself up for failure in a lifetime of horrible experiences. And I know others who have brought it up and been like, hey, like this kind of scares me. I feel like we drink a lot. And I I like the word we because it makes him feel less attacked. So, as someone who has like seen this with other people and myself, instead of you drink a lot, even if you don't, even if you're not part of it, I've this is the way I would address it to get started. If it's if it's just something that maybe you're thinking there's a little bit of a red flag and you're not really sure if there's a problem, but there's enough to make you question it. Start with, you know what I was thinking? We drink a little bit too much. Like I feel like we drink every week, every day. Do you feel like that? I was one, let's just go like have like a sober month. Let's do that. I'll just do it together for like health reasons. Or like just, you know, let's just do like a detaw, 30 day. If they can't get through 30 days without touching a beer or without being very upset about it or having anxiety around it, then I would say that there's probably some sort of, I don't want to use the word problem, but potentially talk about potentially there is some they might be in one of the stages of alcoholism and it's worth addressing at that point. But that's a good way to like a good feeler for if you're not sure, because I do have people coming, they're like, I'm not sure. It feels like he drinks a lot, but he could just be bored. Like just because he has a beer every night doesn't mean he's an alcoholic. I will be honest, it's that's true. Right. But but it could also mean that he's an alcoholic. So testing it out with that little feeler is kind of my first go-to for people.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

Absolutely. And then on the other end, for people that may be struggling with addiction or mental health issues, what is your advice to them about recovery that you would give them in five words or less?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

Healing starts with the first step. So, and that's for across the board, even if you're not an alcoholic or an addict, but mental health issues or anything that you're dealing with that I feel like that very first step is always the hardest. It's the biggest one.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:35

But healing starts as soon as you're because you know, fear paralyzes us. So get back by past that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

I know this isn't like a Christian-based podcast, but fear comes from the devil. God does not give you a spirit of fear. So if you're feeling fear in your life, then remember I said that like something has entered and polluted your soul from something bad that happened to you. And if some if fear is holding you back, then you have something really special you're supposed to do with your life. And as soon as you let go of that fear, you're made for something more than that. That's funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:02

And I I was at a retreat once, a uh uh 12-step, and it was a priest that was running it, and he said, if you're still feeling fear, that just means that your higher power isn't high enough. Yeah, it's just like dig deeper in the spirituality. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

Because that's fear's not it's a a lot of that too in the 12-step, and the reason that it works is because we cannot do it by ourselves, and you have to accept that first. I can't, especially, I mean, women do it too, but men are very much raised, especially the current generation, of like we were men were raised to do it themselves. You're strong, do it yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

It's funny, and and I'm I'll go there because you went there first, so it's yeah, no, go. But you know, as I said, coming into uh the 12-step program with this lifetime and uh of of of being faith-based and religious-based, I thought like this is awesome. I only have to I only have to know 11 steps. Yeah, like I already know this is easy. Like, this isn't that's not what this is.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:02

The spiritual thing. And and what I realized that even back all my life, what when I was praying, there was so much ego in it. I was praying for things. Yeah, give me this, I need this, give me a better job. And it now it's it's just take this. I can't do this alone. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

It's a humility, it comes from a place of it. And also, I I would say you like said you seem so happy. Now I I would say that every day, like I try so hard to focus my life on thankfulness. Like, yeah, if you change your perspective of what I need to what I have, like I already have so much. I already I'm already so blessed. Like gratitude. Like instead of I need this, oh, can you give me this? Like, oh, I just noticed I need this. Like, thank you so much for this. Thank you so much for my life, for my kids, for my home, for my job, for the family, for opportunities. Like, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:50

And do you know what that does to you? I know you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

It changes your soul, it literally changes how your soul feels.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:56

Like the whole the whole concept of gratitude. Yeah. I would go through life like skipping over like these gratitude moments all day long because they weren't, I didn't see them, or they weren't important. Now I'm like, oh, I'm so grateful for that. And I feel differently immediately. Like, where did that come from?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:13

Oh, yeah. And with social media, we see what everybody has and we we want, want, want, want, one in reality, it's just like you were fed today. Yeah, like you had food, you aren't hungry. Do you understand like how crazy that like how crazy that is to not be thankful that you aren't going to go to bed hungry today? Yeah. Anyways, this is a whole nother subject. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:31

This has been a great fantastic. I feel like ending it on gratitude and the things that we can be thankful for is absolutely amazing. Yeah. I have so enjoyed getting to chat with you and get to know you better. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you so much for coming here. Thank you for braving the cold in Wisconsin. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:48

I know I told her I said I brought my coat from San Diego and I got here.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

I was like, this is not a good thing. I know it's like we need to have like a some type of park it here because people just ain't ready. Um yes, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Yeah, that's great. Um, and where can people find you?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

Oh, so I have a TikTok and an Instagram account. I'm I need to be more active on both, but it's Chelse.ocean on both. Um on those. I try to keep it. I do more family-based stuff now, but there is a lot of pinned alcohol content on my TikTok for people that are looking for inspiration or resources or advice.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:19

Awesome. Um, and if you'd like to learn more about Chelsea, you can uh click on the description in the show notes. And thank you so much for joining us today.