Elizabeth Pearson | From Alcohol Addiction, Trauma, & OCD to Healing Through 12-Step Sobriety

Elizabeth Pearson shares her powerful addiction recovery story, detailing her struggles with alcohol, OCD, sexual trauma, and deep depression. From secretive drinking, an abusive relationship, and a near-suicide, she found healing through 12-step recovery, community, and running marathons. A story of transformation, faith, and finding purpose in sobriety.

Explore mental health and addiction treatment options: https://recovery.com

Connect with Elizabeth: https://www.instagram.com/eatlizabeth/

00:00 Introduction and First Impressions

00:30 Meet Elizabeth Pearson

01:55 Early Struggles with Alcohol

03:43 College Life and Drinking Culture

06:51 Dealing with Trauma and Addiction

12:33 The Turning Point

15:24 Finding Sobriety and Support

19:23 Embracing Recovery

25:26 The Power of Community

28:20 Diagnosed with OCD: A New Perspective

28:45 Understanding OCD Beyond Stereotypes

29:06 Alcoholism and OCD: The Connection

30:47 Daily Practices for Managing OCD and Alcoholism

31:49 The Importance of Asking for Help

33:27 Navigating Relationships in Sobriety

39:22 Spirituality and Running in Recovery

44:30 Family Healing Through Recovery

48:45 The Gift of Recovery: A New Life

52:38 Final Thoughts and Social Media

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

I walked into my first meeting and I thought, oh, this is going to be great because I'm going to go in and I'm going to see how much worse off everybody else is. And then I'm going to know that I don't really belong here and I can go back to drinking and find someone worse.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 0:11

Absolutely. So I'm like, you know, spending like an hour trying to, I'm like, oh, I need to have like the perfect outfit and look so put together. And then, you know, I walk into that room and it is like a bunch of people exactly like me.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

Welcome to Recovery Cast, where we share authentic stories from influential voices about the joys of life in mental health and addiction recovery and the journeys that led us here. I'm Britney Baeinard, and today Tom Farley and I are joined by Elizabeth Pearson, content creator, marathon runner, and sober powerhouse behind at Eat Lizabeth. Based in Chicago, Elizabeth shares her recovery journey with raw honesty, sharp insight, and a generous dose of self-deprecating humor. After quitting Alcohol Cold Turkey in her late 20s, she found healing through 12-step recovery, a new OCD diagnosis, and a spontaneous love for running. From the depths of depression to crossing the finish line of the New York City Marathon, Elizabeth reminds us that transformation is possible. She brought her pup Sawyer along for this one, so expect wisdom and tailwakes. Here we go. Hi everyone, and thank you for joining us for today's episode of Recovery Cast. We are joined today by Elizabeth Pearson and Paparino Sawyer. So glad to have you both today. Elizabeth is a recovery advocate, runner, really cool woman, and we are gonna get into it about her wonderful recovery story. Thank you so much for coming and welcome. Thank you for having me. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, welcome to Madison too.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

All the way from Chicago. All the way from Chicago. Nice. Before we dive in, um, I'd like to ask, what are you hoping someone might take away from your story?

SPEAKER_07 2:03

Yeah, I think if there's one thing that someone can take away from my story, it's that you are not unique. I think that's the biggest thing is that there is nothing wrong with you. You're not alone. Um, the experiences that you're having, the things you're grappling with, so many of us go through those same things. Um, and I I just I want people to look at me and think like, oh, that that can be me.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

Yes. Awesome. Thank you. So let's get into it. So um reflecting on the early days of alcohol use and addiction, um, what what was that like for you? What kind of set that off?

SPEAKER_07 2:41

Yeah, so I think it really was this feeling of like something inherently being wrong with me, but not necessarily being able to name what that thing is. So always feeling I was different and that no one understood me. Um and drinking was really a way for me to say, like, if you experience the things I experienced, you would drink like I drank too. Um, but my drinking was not, it wasn't like something that I started from a really young age. It didn't start until I went to college. I was super type A. I was a compulsive rule follower, was, you know, involved in every extracurricular you can imagine at school, like very academically driven.

SPEAKER_05 3:17

Um what were your thoughts on alcohol at that age?

SPEAKER_07 3:19

Like I was just scared of my parents. Yeah, yeah. Okay, the fear, the fear. Okay, yeah. And not in a bad way. Um, you know, addiction runs in our family. And I'd always been told that, you know, alcohol is something that can be very dangerous, and you really don't want to jeopardize your chances of getting into a good college either. And so I was just really like single-minded in terms of focusing on getting into school. And so it really just wasn't on the radar for a long time.

SPEAKER_05 3:43

Yeah. So then you go to college and it's now on your radar because that's kind of like a part of college life for a lot of people. What is that first experience like? And then how how does that feel to you? Does it set off some instant thing or is it kind of gradual?

SPEAKER_07 3:59

Yeah. So I think with getting to college, like I was so driven and focused when I was in high school. And I, I, I really, I was, I'm like the least relaxed person you'll ever meet in your life. Do not have a cool bone in my body. And so when I got to college, it was like, oh my gosh, I I have this opportunity to completely reinvent myself. And I went to an all-girls private school for most of high school. So, like, really, I had like a pretty sheltered growing up for all intents and purposes. And so then, you know, I'm thrust into this new environment and I just run anxiously. And so it was this when I drank alcohol for the first time, it was like, okay, all of a sudden I get to turn off the noise in my brain and I just get to be. And I felt like drinking made me all the things that I wanted to be when I was sober. Like I thought it made me funnier and smarter and wittier and more confident. And so I just found myself then chasing that feeling. And I think when you learn to drink in like a binge drinking environment, yeah, you're not necessarily clued into the fact that it's abnormal if everyone around you is drinking that way.

SPEAKER_05 5:04

Right. There, you will always find someone else that's like way worse than you. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. When you and then when you think about it, you're like, okay, but like at any age, if somebody was consuming this much alcohol at any point, like that would be a problem, right? You're like, yeah, but no, I'm like, I'm here, I'm doing the thing. It's super fun. At college, you're starting drinking, you hadn't experienced this before. Um, are you drinking by yourself?

SPEAKER_07 5:25

You know, not really. I was so I was in a sorti. I rushed when I was in college. And, you know, to me, drinking in my mind was only problematic if it started to affect other things in your life. And so, you know, I I I am on honor roll in college. Like I'm, you know, continuing with all my extracurriculars. I'm in a sort of like I have all of the things that I think I should have in life that that prove that I'm doing okay.

SPEAKER_06 5:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 5:50

Um, and so it just it really never clicked for me in college that there may be something wrong. And that's not to say, you know, I didn't get into dangerous situations or I or I was, you know, constantly making great choices. Yeah, but it was nothing consequential enough that led me to believe that like this was a true problem.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

I'm guessing that it also didn't have any negative effects. Your grades were probably still where they always were. Your social life was the same if not better.

SPEAKER_06 6:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:20

That's very confusing. You know, uh high nothing there is no negative to this except this feeling.

SPEAKER_05 6:29

Totally. And even at a young age, you felt this like there's something maybe like wrong. There's something just off that I can't uh fix that thing. And then you go to college and you start using alcohol to kind of like fill that. What did you feel like you were so tense about? What was what was causing you to be so anxious?

SPEAKER_07 6:51

Yeah, I think I just have always struggled with kind of like this deep, unabiding insecurity and just not feeling comfortable in my own skin. And so I always say my first brush with addiction was really an eating disorder when I was in middle school and high school. It was a way, you know, that I could easily seek control. It was a way for me to kind of, I don't know, I I think I have this complex, right, where there's something inside of me that feels broken or bad and like I need to be punished and kept in line. And so that's really, you know, I think that's been a large theme in my life is seeking out things that I feel like will keep me in line. So for a while, right, it was, you know, restriction. And then I get to college and it's alcohol. And and, you know, it's uh a huge part of my story too is just the men that I chose to be with. And I was constantly seeking out um, you know, people who skew towards more like physically and verbally abusive because I I thought that like as Elizabeth, like I'm not gonna be okay. Like I can't trust myself to keep myself in line. So I need to surround myself with people who can do it for me.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

You know, sometimes a lot of a lot of it comes from some trauma. But I haven't heard that at this point. It's just just how we were wired. So it's not a trauma thing.

SPEAKER_07 8:02

I have the strongly held belief that I was born an alcoholic. I don't believe there's anything that could have happened differently in my life to change who I am. I, you know, I was I have two of the most loving parents. I was raised in a wonderful household. I was given every opportunity and then some, yeah, are there things that happened when I was growing up that could be considered traumatic? Yeah, for sure. I mean, um, you know, a large, I think, reason for why my drinking probably ratcheted up so quickly when I got to college is I um dealt with a sexual assault my senior year of high school. And I grew up in a pretty Christian household. And and I didn't, I didn't know what that meant. I really felt like that was like, oh, maybe this is divine punishment for making a mistake. And, you know, I think drinking was just it was a way for me to silence so much of that noise and not actually have to confront things that had happened. But I don't know. I think my relationship with all those things now is like I I lived and I drank because of like my quote unquote trauma for so long. Like in a weird way, I I I wanted to hold on to that trauma really, really tightly and closely because I felt like it gave me reasons to drink and it kind of fit into this narrative that I was saying that like I am this total tragic character and like drinking is of course the only way that I can can make it through and and and in and live in my body and in my life.

SPEAKER_05 9:22

Yeah. Uh at this point, had you ever um gotten therapy? Did you have a therapist attempt inpatient for either the eating disorder or just those feelings you were feeling?

SPEAKER_07 9:32

My parents got me into therapy that senior year where kind of everything was was coming to a head. When you're so tied to this idea of like being a victim and everything's happening to me, even if someone is giving you all the right advice and is handing you the right tools, unless you have a willingness to listen and look at things a different way, like it's it's not gonna break through.

SPEAKER_05 9:52

Right. But it's also sometimes how our brains are just wired. Like no one wants to sit there and punish themselves 24-7. And I think we'll get into this a little bit later with the later diagnosis that you had received. At this point, your therapist, were you diagnosed with anything?

SPEAKER_07 10:08

No, and I I really had no experience with therapy before like going. We I didn't grow up in a household where we use therapy speak, and it's not, I just think like even growing up, right? Like 10 years ago, it it wasn't as imbued in the culture as it is today. And so it was like, okay, my parents are like, we don't really know what to do for you. So we're gonna have you go talk to someone else to see if they can figure it out. Um, but then you know, I go to college in a few months after that, and so it's kind of just right. And some people think like, I need some event to go to therapy, right?

SPEAKER_05 10:38

It's not like maintenance, like daily maintenance for stuff, which is like a great use for therapy, like just maintaining. So in college, do your friends, do your family, is anyone noticing this? Because you hadn't drank before in high school, but you are still maintaining like that high functioning aspect of your personality um and academics. What's that experience like with the people in your life?

SPEAKER_07 11:03

There's never a moment that anyone came to me and was like, hey, Elizabeth, we think you have a problem. And, you know, I I went to a it's a really small school in Tennessee. My parents went to that school, my brothers went to that school. Like they weren't, they were aware of what the drinking culture was. And it was it was, you know, like 80% of the campus was in Greek life. Like that's just what you did. Yeah. It's so a huge part of like my addiction too was was just hiding it. It was really good at kind of keeping all of I don't know, the facade up, right? Of everything looking like it was perfect because that was my protection mechanism was like I was so afraid that someone was gonna take alcohol away from me if they figured out that that was the problem. And so if I could construct, you know, a like looking like I had it all together, but be like if there was a problem, if I could kind of assign that to something that wasn't alcohol, like that was that was my survival mechanism.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Right, but it all still is though, Isabel. It's like, and you don't have to be homeless, jobless for alcohol to be a problem. Yeah, we don't need to literally hit rock bottom before we notice it in ourselves to be like, I think I've got an issue. Did you ever bring it up to people?

SPEAKER_07 12:14

You know, I I'm sure there were moments when I was, you know, where we've all woke up really hungover and you're like, I'm never doing it. Hangover shame. Yeah. But I always did it again, you know, because I I mean there, I think that's the way that an alcoholic brain is wired, is you're you're always gonna find your way back to it.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

You're in this normative drinking culture, your family doesn't see anything wrong, you know it doesn't feel right, something's wrong. Then you just decided to walk into an AA meeting.

SPEAKER_07 12:43

Yeah. Well, I mean, there are a few things that happened in the years between college and and me ending up in in a room. You know, I referenced this before, but is it's just that relationship component. So during COVID, um, I had moved in with somebody that I'd been dating, and and unfortunately, it turned out to be a really unsafe situation. And, you know, I was it, you know, COVID was just totally unprecedented times. I think on the one hand, we were seeing all of this like mom wine culture and like it was just omnipresent and people were normalizing like drinking as a coping mechanism. Um, and I I was pretty isolated from my family at that point. I was so scared, I didn't know what to do. I felt like I'd failed because my parents were, they didn't tell me not to do it, but they were like, we don't think this is a great idea. You don't want to hear, and I told you so. Of course not. God forbid, my mom is right. And so I was just, it was just like layer upon layer of shame and feeling like I had failed. And so, you know, the only way I felt like I could cope was to drink. So I started drinking alone all the time. Yeah. Um, there was kind of a I guess like a pretty pivotal moment that happened um in that where my my dad ended up coming and moving me out in the middle of the night. What happened? It had escalated to a point where it was just so unsafe.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

In your relationship.

SPEAKER_07 14:01

Yes, exactly. And um, my parents often talk about how Sawyer, my dog, saved my life because my self-esteem was so low at that point that I didn't really care what happened to me. But I adopted Sawyer when I was in that relationship and um he really started abusing Sawyer and I just couldn't watch that happen.

SPEAKER_06 14:19

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 14:20

Um, and so that was really what got me out. And it is my strongly held belief that like I don't know if I would have made it through the rest of the year with the with the level at which things were progressing. Um, and so I ended up moving home, and that still wasn't enough to get me sober. I had probably I think three more years after that that I was drinking. And that was just another like trauma box that I got to tick off. And it was a reason for me to drink, right? Like, can you believe I was in this horrible situation? I mean, it wasn't an excuse, right? But like it was, it was just something else that really amplified and had me double down on my drinking. And I just I was stuck on the hamster wheel and I tried everything. Um, and I was like doing fine. I had a boyfriend, I had a good job, I was getting promotions at work. I, you know, I my family wasn't, it they weren't like, oh, we think this is a huge problem, but it had started to become a little bit more apparent that I wasn't well and that drinking was becoming um, you know, something for me to fall back on. I was so deeply depressed. I had a plan for how I wanted to end my life, but then I woke up one morning. It was a Wednesday morning, it wasn't nothing out of the ordinary had happened the night before, but I was just hung over again. And I really believe it was divine intervention. And it was like you have two choices right now. You are either gonna stop drinking or you're going to die. Um, and so I was dry, which for those that don't know, in recovery, like a 12-step they call dry is when you're not drinking, but you're not actively working a program. So I did that for about a month and physically I felt better than I'd ever felt, but all I could think about was drinking and I didn't understand why. I had a moment where I was like, I don't, I don't know a single sober person. I've never met a sober person in my life. I don't know what to do. I didn't know if AA was a real thing. I had seen it in movies before, but I was like, is this a thing that people do? And I happened to find a meeting that night and and something got me there. It happened to be a young person's meeting. Um, I was I got sober in Denver and they have things there called ticket meetings. So they give you a ticket at the door, and if they pull it, you speak. And mine was pulled. And it was just it was just this crazy quick succession of events. And I mean, it was the scariest but one most wonderful moment of my life is when I said, like, hi, I'm Elizabeth, and I'm an alcoholic, because finally it was just this weight lifted off my chest of being like, I have been trying to figure out for like a decade what, like, what is wrong with me. And I'm now sitting in a room full of people who just understand the way that my brain is wired. And I have a solution now. And I was dating someone at the time who, you know, it was it wasn't a healthy relationship and and it takes too to tango. And he, I came home that night and I told him where I went, and he was very unhappy.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Really?

SPEAKER_07 17:10

Very unhappy. And it was, Elizabeth, you're being dramatic. You're not an alcoholic. I know alcoholics, you're not one of them.

SPEAKER_05 17:19

Why did they think you were not an alcoholic?

SPEAKER_07 17:21

I think, and this is something I've learned throughout my recovery, is people take your choices around drinking very personally. And I think if you are close to someone and you've been drinking together and you say, I have a problem, they think it's an indictment on their choices. At that point, like my drinking had become really isolating in a lot of ways. And I and I burned a lot of bridges and you know, I was I was dealing with a lot of shame. Um, but I was constantly able to make excuses as to why I could keep drinking. And I always say, like, that moment of coming home, my boyfriend at the time being very disappointed in me. And I still chose to go to a meeting the next day. Like that was kind of like my burning bush moment, right? Where finally I had something in my life that felt bigger and more important to me than making somebody else happy or to fit somebody else's idea of who I should be and what I should be doing. And I think it's exactly what you're saying, right? Like it was a place that I could go and feel connected to people and not have to explain myself and not have to, you know, break down like I, you know, I feel this way, and then be like, well, I don't understand, just drink less, or you know, why like just have self-esteem or all these things because there were there was just this group of women that it was like we all had the same brain and I didn't feel crazy anymore.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Did you go to find a women's group after that?

SPEAKER_07 18:41

I did.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Like that's so key.

SPEAKER_07 18:43

And that is key. Yeah. And that, and that has been that's one of my biggest pieces of advice for women who are interested in getting into recovery is different strokes for different folks. But like I think the connection and the honesty I found in rooms of of women has been like beyond anything that I had experienced before.

SPEAKER_05 19:01

Right. It's like when you explain your story to the masses, you feel like, oh, did anybody like did it? But when you're sitting there with like, these are women, these are women who have been through this experience. They could have experienced it all over the world, but we still have this like thing in common that brings us together where they can have a similar story and we just feel connected that way. That's a beautiful space for those relationships to develop. You were having thoughts of not wanting to be here anymore. Um was that the first time you had felt that way?

SPEAKER_07 19:33

No, um, I'd actually had um an attempt in my freshman year of college, I think when sort of all this just confusion about my assault in high school was coming to a head. And and for me it was, I got all this noise in my head, and it was so exhausting to live up there, and I didn't know how to make it stop. And the and the thought of having to live with that noise forever was so I just couldn't wrap my head around it. I was like, how am I supposed to make it through the rest of my life when everything sounds like this all the time?

SPEAKER_05 20:04

Yeah. I think a lot of people don't realize those might be pre-suicidal ideations that are also really important to speak to somebody about because like your story, you say I I felt this way, I felt this way, and it just becomes overwhelming at sometimes. And whether people make a plan or not, having those thoughts, that is but that's that ideation of not wanting to be here anymore. Your dog saved you from those feelings, and it still wasn't something that like you felt you could bring yourself out of. Um, and you're still getting out of that relationship. Now you found a community in AA. What are the next steps? Like, what what are you finding to help you build these tools to not go back to this point again?

SPEAKER_07 20:49

Yeah, I mean, the biggest thing that I received when I came into the rooms was I I cannot over-emphasize that I had the gift of desperation. I have a lot of women that through social media that come to me and and and are like, How did you get sober? And I'm like, I I just didn't have another choice. And I was so desperate to feel differently and to feel well that I was willing to do anything that anybody told me to live a different life. It's that willingness. And I think too, a really common thing that I've found with other women in recovery is that a lot of us felt like we had an inability to have good relationships with women before we got into their rooms. It's like, well, of course you did, because you're so selfish when you're in active addiction and you're willing to hurt anyone and anything that stands in your way of getting what you want. And for me, that was a lot of like validation-based stuff, right? Um, and so you get in, and not only do I have this opportunity to rebuild my life, but also to rebuild how I think about being in relationships with other people and how I can show up for people. And one of my favorite things I I heard early on in recovery is that how lucky are we that we get to have two lives? Like we get to have our drunk life and our sober life. And nobody Else gets to experience that and like what like what a miracle that I get to live two different lives and choose a gratitude.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

One of the steps is to you know make an inventory of all our deficits. That's fine. That that's but that's at that life. I'm also making an inventory of the stuff that I've gained. You know, have you have you gotten to that point of like this life and recovery has given me so much? What and what is what what what are those things?

SPEAKER_07 22:26

Yeah, no, uh definitely. I mean, gratitude is a huge part of my practice and daily reprieve. And and I think gratitude is one of those words that we all kind of like roll our eyes at because we're like, okay, everyone says that that's that's the key to it, but it it really is. I think that the way that I stay out of my resentments and out of like my jealousy or my comparison to other people, places, and things is I can just look at my life and all of these things that I now take for granted, having a couple years of sobriety under my belt were things I couldn't have imagined having before. Um, there's a part in the big book that says, like, we we will be able to look the world in the eyes. I think that's really sums up my recovery, is like I have this ability to no longer be so overcome with shame and humiliation and hatred for myself. And I can really look people in the eyes, even when I make mistakes and own them and apologize them. And I think we build self-esteem by doing esteemable things. And they talk about constantly taking the next right action, right? It's not about having to know how to do everything today, um, but it's about being able to make a choice to do the next right thing, um, which I think makes it a lot more manageable.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Kind of the third pillar for me is uh the whole rigorous honesty. I I was like, I thought I was an honest person, but rigorously honest? No, there's no way. And but I I didn't think that was a thing. Did that change your life too? Yeah, just that honesty part?

SPEAKER_07 23:49

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think a big part of my lack of honesty before had to do with deception for image maintenance's sake, right? So it was again like so afraid that if people knew I had a problem, they would take alcohol away from me. And so I wanted to create sort of like this impenetrable wall between me and everybody else. And this was constructed of all these like material things and things that I would achieve and just all of this crap that didn't really mean anything at the end of the day. Um, there's this quote I love that says, like, all roads of glory lead to the grave. And like, yeah, I had a complete inability to be honest, I think mostly with myself too, because so much of active addiction is finding an excuse for everything. And if I could find someone to blame for something, like you bet I did all the time. And the best way that it was described to me when I came into the program, especially as far as resentments are concerned, is your resentments aren't necessarily the ways that people have wronged you, but it's the ways that you give away your power. And I think I had no concept of the fact that I was, I would give away my power to anybody. It's like somebody cuts me in line. Here, you can you can have the rest of my day because I'm I'm so angry now. Um, toxic relationships that I'd been in. Well, I'm gonna drink over this and I'm gonna stew over this, and it's gonna be the reason that I, you know, railroad the next three years of my life. And I have learned to turn it over, which was something that I didn't have the ability to do before. I didn't understand that I didn't need to react to everything, that I didn't need to have a point of view on everything, that life is mostly opportunities to just let go and move on.

SPEAKER_05 25:26

What is it like from going dry to sober for you? What was that experience like for you?

SPEAKER_07 25:31

I walked into my first meeting and I thought, oh, this is gonna be great because I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna see how much worse off everybody else is. And then I'm gonna know that I don't really belong here and I can go back to drinking.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah, find someone worse, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 25:43

Absolutely. So I'm like, you know, spending like an hour trying to, I'm like, oh, I need to have like the perfect outfit and look so put together. And then, you know, I walk into that room and it is like a bunch of people exactly like me. And going from being dry to being sober was, I mean, like I get emotional thinking about it. Like I went from feeling like I had nobody in my corner to like, I don't know, this is really what I try to talk to women about in particular, is if you feel alone, the best place that you can go is a recovery meeting. Because I have never had the experience in my life before that of just having a room of strangers so ready to love me, like good, bad, and different. Like it doesn't matter what I did to get there. Um, I think another big thing for me too was having to unlearn this idea that a seat in AA needs to be earned. I have to have this, like the sorted tail and this very specific type of rock bottom to be here, like running.

SPEAKER_05 26:39

The trauma Olympics, like previously said, you do not need to be jobless and homeless for this to affect your life to a point where you're like, no, I'm an alcoholic. I know it. I can see it in myself, and I want to fix that.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Being vulnerable, what like did you find that quickly and you know, or did it take a while?

SPEAKER_07 26:57

The step work has been, yes, I mean, that that is what has changed my life. And a lot of people, they're like, okay, how did you get sober? The only answer I have is 12 step because I tried to do it on my own before. Like it is 12 simple steps, and that is how I have changed my life. And it wasn't until I I got into doing an inventory that I really began to understand that there was there was something deeper there. Um, and I think also this idea, right, that like I believe alcohol wasn't my problem. I think it was my only solution. I don't know. I think that's something I try to communicate to people too that are struggling with the idea of like, should I get into recovery or not? Like, am I an alcoholic or not? Like, do you do you feel that like alcohol is your solution for life? And that's that is exactly how it was for me. And the fact is, when I start drinking, I can't stop.

SPEAKER_05 27:41

Well, I'm happy that regardless of when you told people and they made you feel like you shouldn't feel that way, that you did it anyways.

SPEAKER_07 27:49

Yeah, and I will say, like, my parents and my family have been so supportive. Like, I think that was that was like a huge dichotomy too, right? Was like on the one hand, I have, you know, friends and and boyfriend and over here that are like, there's no way, Elizabeth. And then my parents are like, thank god, girl, you finally got there.

SPEAKER_05 28:04

I didn't want to say it, but they're like a jerk, but oh funny. So you have brought the 12 steps into your life, you're going to meetings and you're taking care of the substance use aspect of your life. I'm excited to get into this part. So you had been diagnosed with OCD later on in life, a few years into your recovery, along with depression and anxiety. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. So, how did that change your perspective on the experiences you had in addiction, your current mental health? Um, and what was your idea of OCD before you learned that you had that?

SPEAKER_07 28:45

I really thought OCD was just you like you have to wash your hands a lot. Yeah. Like in room. Like medical OCD. Like I really thought that that was the only thing. And what I learned is that it's it's really about like obsessive thoughts and obsessive thinking. And so I can totally, I mean, there's a clear connection to As you're talking. I'm like, you loop on thoughts. Oh, like yes, you ruminate on things, you let things take over. Exactly. And so, you know, and and alcohol is like obviously an obsession. And I might, I don't believe that alcoholism is a product of my OCD. I don't think my OCD helped my alcoholism.

SPEAKER_05 29:14

Just helping silence that overwhelming feeling. Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 29:18

And like the thing about OCD too is it's just it is so is so incessant. And the way I've described it is it almost feels like I don't know if you've watched Star Wars, but the one with the with the trash compactor when they're like stuck in that room. And I'm like, that is how my head would feel. It's just I would just feel so like stuck and like just the world was closing in on me.

SPEAKER_05 29:39

Yeah. I feel like when people hear OCD, they're like, oh, you just clean a lot, you wash your hands. It's this self-doubt in yourself which makes you like, well, I I did that because I literally didn't think I did it before. I locked the bathroom door, I went to the lock four times in a row because like, and then sat down. It's the self-doubt, which is also possibly just going back to some of the things that you said, like in college, like I need this type of validation because I'm doubting myself so much. And that was at the core, not some vanity thing, but it's literally how your brain was wired to take in information. So we have experiences in our life with like mental health and how we experience it on our own. But what's that like interacting with people just in your everyday life? Like how does it manifest at times?

SPEAKER_07 30:27

Yeah, I think that the biggest thing I grapple with today still is just is self-esteem.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 30:32

And I think that's self-doubt, right? Like you nailed it on the head. That's exactly what it is. It's it's feeling like I can't trust myself, or that I think, again, like there's something inherently wrong. And that's when I really realize, right, that like alcoholism is a is a thinking disease. It's not a drinking disease. Um, you know, I've taken right like a two-fold approach to this. Like I'm I'm medicated and that's great and that's really helpful. But I also like I can't solely rely on that. Like my program is a huge part of it too.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Right.

SPEAKER_07 30:58

And I treat my OCD a lot like I treat my alcoholism, which is I need, I need a daily reprieve and I need a daily practice um to be able to live and to live well. Um, and I think the one of the biggest and most important aspects of my recovery has been freeing myself from having to be a victim, right? Is like I can have these things. These things don't have to define me. Like these are just things that exist in my life and sometimes they inform the way I look at the world, but that doesn't have to be it for me. That's not the whole story. Um, and so I have like a deep desire now to just, I don't know, like overcome, but yeah, no, it's just like awakening.

SPEAKER_05 31:34

And the education is the helpful part. It's not about getting the diagnosis, it's knowing what it is and kind of incorporating it in your life. Like you said, it's not an excuse for why I do the things, but it helps me understand. So then I know what tools to grab when I feel that thing coming again. Exactly. What are some tools that you utilize in your life for OCD?

SPEAKER_07 31:52

The biggest one is asking for help. I I had a complete inability to ever tell somebody that I was struggling before I got into recovery. And so being able to call my mom, call someone else in the program, journaling, like all that sort of stuff. I've just learned that like the solution is not to keep it inside. And to, and and one of my biggest character defects is I still struggle with like image maintenance to this day, right? And so I'm notorious for like going ghost on people for two weeks and then coming back once I've like figured everything out and being like, yeah, well, I was on the verge there two weeks ago and I'm doing so well now.

SPEAKER_05 32:28

Um Do you tend to be very introspective um when it comes to things? So, like, say a situation happens, you're gonna kind of like overanalyze it all in your head before you bring it to the other person.

SPEAKER_07 32:38

Oh, 100%. Yeah, you you my notes app is a terrifying place. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:43

Yeah, you don't want to see that, which is terrible because then it's like we just worked out this whole situation without including the other person.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

And they're like, wait, what? I literally didn't even think of that. I don't know why. You're like, oh, okay, because I thought you hated me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:03

This podcast is brought to you by recovery.com. It's a place where anyone can find mental health or addiction treatment options specific to them. You can filter by location, price, insurance coverage, therapy type, mental health condition, levels of care, and so much more. Recovery.com is the best place to find mental health or addiction treatment for anyone, anywhere. Relationships in sobriety. So, like, how do you navigate that? So you were dating somebody, you opened up to them, you're like, I think I'm an alcoholic, that didn't go too well with them. Um, that had to not feel so great. How have you approached being sober in relationships since then?

SPEAKER_07 33:43

I really think that confidence is built over time and you just reach a point in your recovery where it kind of shuts off a lot of the outside noise, right? And the thing that I really believe to my core is that if I don't have my sobriety, I don't have anything else. And so it has to come first. It has to come before my relationships, my job, because I don't get that stuff if I'm not sober. Um, and so, you know, I think so many women, especially like young women, are so anxious about getting sober because they're like, no one's gonna want to date me. And when I tell you that was my number one fear when I came into the program was like, oh my gosh, I'm never gonna get married now. And and I can't have champagne at my wedding. That's a super common one. Um, you think I was a good partner when I was drinking? Then you only good point, good point. Absolute disaster. And so I think like, you know, the great thing about getting into recovery is it's not only not drinking, but it gives you tools to like own your part and move through conflict resolution and like I'm not ashamed of who I am. I'm not ashamed of what I say or what I do. And I've actually found that, you know, it's it's like it's it's helped me get into really healthy relationships because I can't be in a healthy relationship unless I'm healthy and sober.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yes. What are those, you know, signs or or triggers that you're aware of now that when you're out in public that that tell you, like, okay, I gotta call somebody, I gotta go to a meeting, I gotta read something. You know, I I'm very aware of what those things are.

SPEAKER_07 35:11

Sure. No, I think I mean my OCD like primarily manifests in my personal relationships. So I do, like kind of you said, right? Like a lot of overanalyzing of like conversations and situations when I'm like unable to get out of a place of like spiraling and thinking about something that happened or something I said. The best, the best thing for me is to get outside myself and to get into community. And I think this is the part of the program that is the best, right? Is that it teaches you that the way to get out of your own head is to help somebody else. And I did not have the opportunity, or I don't want to say didn't have the opportunity. I didn't have the wherewithal to think about anybody but me before I got into recovery. And so now I know if I'm if I'm having a bad day, I don't call someone and say I'm having a bad day. I call them and I'm like, tell me about your day because getting outside of yourself, I really think is the key to like a life of like immense satisfaction, of deepened relationships. You know, I had someone tell me how to choose my meetings is you have one meeting that like really feeds your soul. You have one meeting that pisses you off because you go and you learn how to be patient and you learn that it's it doesn't really matter how you feel. Like we have a primary purpose and has taught me to be far more patient. And then the third meeting is one where you like know you can be of service, so like a beginner's meeting or something like that. And and I think maintaining that, right? Like being able to feed my needs, but also being able to to, I guess, remedy my character defects in some ways has become really, really critical to my to my program.

SPEAKER_05 36:41

What are some things that you noticed that now you're like, that was my OCD affecting relationships? That was my OCD affecting my life.

SPEAKER_07 36:51

I think that the biggest way that it's yeah, that it's manifested in relationships is is like the incessant need for validation, especially after like I feel that I make a mistake, right? And it's obsessing over like you didn't actually mean what you said, and it's and it's just and it's spiraling. And I think, you know, you talked about it earlier, but it it is like having a conversation with someone else that they're never a part of because you're just having that conversation in your head.

SPEAKER_05 37:17

Yeah, and you can make it really, really bad. People like really bad. You do you like worry about what people think of you? I don't think about it. I'm thinking what you think of me. I will make the whole story up in my head. Oh, we will just chill here.

SPEAKER_06 37:29

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 37:29

Um, how do you communicate with partners then? Like, is that something that you're able to communicate to partners to work through that? Like, I need you to be direct. I need Barry, like, what are some things then to help out relationships?

SPEAKER_07 37:40

Recovery has completely changed the way I look at relationships because it's it's taught me how to take accountability for who I am. And it's not anyone else's job to make me feel okay about me. It's a partnership and it's supposed to be loving and supportive, but they're not responsible for my emotional state, and I'm not responsible for theirs. Um, and I think unlearning a lot of that emotional codependency has been a big part of my recovery journey as well, which is that if, you know, if my boyfriend is upset about work, it doesn't mean he's mad at me and I need to like spiral and then start to make the situation about me and obsess over that. Sometimes people just have a bad day at work. And so I think it's that being able to have like peace amidst like the chaos and calamity that is life.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

Yeah, that's such a great reason for having these tools to work through that. Because yes, you can be medicated, you can know the things, you can go to therapy, but that stuff will just happen because life keeps on happening. So you need to be like, okay, it's not about me. My mom used to have to tell me all the time.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

People are not thinking about you as much as you think they are thinking about you, they're probably not thinking about it.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Do you do you have you found like the shift from like you're attracting people and opportunities and people and things instead of managing, you're just trying to manage yourself and it's coming.

SPEAKER_07 38:56

Yeah. I mean, I was so reliant on external factors to make me feel okay before. And I think that's right, another like hallmark shift I've had because of my recovery is understanding that everything is going to be okay. If the worst thing could happen, but like I'm still gonna be okay and I don't need to drink over it, and I think just like you know, acceptance is the answer to all my problems, and it really like it really is that simple. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

You're a runner. One level running, this is just physical fitness, but then there's the spirituality part that I think people in recovery find. Is that what is that did that is that why you got into running or it's kind of interesting.

SPEAKER_07 39:38

I don't talk about it a ton. So my mom's actually an episcopal priest. So I grew up incredibly religious, um, and would still say I'm pretty religious to that to this day. And so I think a lot of my spirituality like stems directly like from that faith. And recovery's been a really cool experience for me because I've been able to connect back to that, which I feel like I had really lost previously. And in terms of running, yes, definitely a spiritual component to running. I think more than anything, running is this very clear-cut way for me to show up for myself and hold myself accountable and keep promises. And that was something I was just, I just wasn't able to do that when I was drinking. Um and, you know, I think one of the probably the downsides of running in terms of why I love running is because there's still this part of me that has this like desperate need to achieve. Um, and I think that that's that's something that like I'm still working through and will continue to work through in my recovery, is feeling like the way that I am today is still not enough. And I think a lot of women struggle with this, especially if you get into recovery because of like this huge reliance on like perfectionism, right? Is feeling like, okay, now that I am an alcoholic and I'm in recovery, I'm gonna be like the best recovering alcoholic you've ever recovered the most.

SPEAKER_03 40:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_07 40:54

And so, you know, that's been part of it for me too, is like, yeah, I think there's, you know, maybe this more noble part of running that's like, oh wow, I can keep all these promises to myself and and show up consistently and like, you know, live this like in this really fulfilled way that I wasn't able to before. But the other side of that coin is that I feel like unless I'm you know catching that.

SPEAKER_05 41:14

What am I doing?

SPEAKER_00 41:15

But that what what but that knowledge, that knowledge, you know, is important. Whether it's, you know, I know this about myself, that's very key. And I it's funny, I I grew up and still am very religious too. And I one of the things I joke about is like I when I first came into the rooms, I'm like, well, I only have to do, you know, 11 steps. I already got I already have this. And it that is not what recovery is at all in the rooms. Like I thought it was religion. It's not yeah.

SPEAKER_07 41:44

And I would say too, like a lot of people, right, are are very hesitant about 12-step because they feel that it is religious. And I'd say the interesting thing about coming in with a faith is you have to have a willingness to unlearn the faith that you came in with because the God in the higher power I have now is not the higher power I had when I was growing up in Sunday school. Exactly. You know, you really get to define that for yourself. Like it is, it isn't a religious program, but it is, yeah, it is a spiritual program. And I think the other big thing I always try to stress to women is when I came in, I thought that I was gonna get smacked over the head with a spiritual experience. And what you learn through your step work is that a spiritual experience is a it's a product of work. It's not a product of just sitting there and waiting for something to happen to you. It's something that you you you bring into your life through your step work.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

One can help certainly help the other. I again, in my recovery, it's helped my faith in the sense that I used to pray for things. Give me this, give me a better job. Now it's just take this.

SPEAKER_07 42:44

I can't, I just 100% turning it over.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

And I'm sure you found that too.

SPEAKER_07 42:48

Yeah, I mean, I mean, people are like, what are your prayers? My prayers usually like help me. You know, it's it's it's this acknowledgement that like I am completely powerless. The best and simplest thing I can do is just ask for help. Um, and I love that part of I think it's nine-step prayer where it's like, God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves. And that's like kind of cheesy, but every time I run, especially like when I'm running marathons and I feel like I'm struggling, I constantly say in my head, like God is doing for me what I could not do for myself. Um, and that's really what gets me through the tough moments.

SPEAKER_05 43:22

You know, going from I felt this broken peace, I felt alone, I felt othered, I felt by myself to and out of control and looking for things to feel in control, going to like I've given up control, like I have I've submitted, and this is when the chaos stopped. Stopping, grabbing for that like control in life, because nobody can control anything that happens. We can just control the way we react to things and the way we're able to handle things.

SPEAKER_04 43:52

Um, you ran a marathon. I don't know why you're not telling more people. Didn't you run a marathon?

SPEAKER_07 43:57

Three, yeah. Three? Three optionally? That's wild. That's wild. So yeah, I've I've I've run three now, and and um it was the first one was it was it was the classic. Like I got sober. Now I'm gonna get really into running. What's that first experience like doing the?

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Just skip.

SPEAKER_07 44:20

And that was like just really emotional for me. Um my younger brother, I did in Hawaii, which has like always just been like a really spiritual place for me. And my younger brother came and watched, and he's someone that I I just couldn't show up for when I was drinking. Um and I he I like would borrow money from him. Like I was such a disaster. I never got to be an older sister. Um, and and I think that that's that is like the most special part of my recovery is that it's like your family recovers. It's not just you, right? Like it is, it is truly like it's healed my family in ways that I can't describe. And I had no ability to understand how much my drinking was breaking apart my family.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

So try to try to try to describe that. I mean, that's really important. That and that's what a gift.

SPEAKER_07 45:04

I was a really biting person when I drank. I I would, I, I knew what would cut people deep if I said it. And I I knew how to emotionally manipulate people to get what I wanted. And I treated my I just didn't treat my family well. And I think the other big thing too is I I had no concept of how worried my parents were all the time. Um, and it wasn't just Elizabeth is going out and she's gonna get arrested. Like that wasn't my parents' fear. My parents' fear was that like I was never gonna be happy, and so I I joke that like my parents have like reverse age ten years since I got sober. And you know, my parents came to all my chip meetings my first year and held my hand when I got my chip. And um they have ridden so hard for me. And I feel very lucky. I know that's not like everyone's experience, but I think it's so funny. I I remember saying to my dad, he came, he flew to Chicago for me to get my two-year chip this past year. And we were sitting at dinner, and I was like, Yeah, I just I was worried you guys were gonna be so ashamed when I told you that I was going to AA. And he said, I we have never been more proud of you than in that moment. And I think there's just so much fear around disappointing people when you admit that you have a problem. But like asking for help and giving the people that love you the opportunity to help you is I think that's like the greatest gift that we can give people. Um, and just like a willingness to do things differently. And I mean, my there are periods of time in my life where, you know, we I didn't see my my mom's dad because of his drink, like and alcoholism has touched our family in a lot of different ways. And I think like as a parent, I'm imagining it's really hard to see your child begin to go down that road and like not know if you can do anything about it. Um, and like my parents have just been, they've just been so amazing to let me do it in like my time and my terms too. Um, so yeah, I just I'm I'm really, really lucky. Your parents sound amazing. They are the best.

SPEAKER_05 47:05

I'm so glad you got to have that moment with your brother. That sounds really cool.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

That was your first, as you described, first drinking environment as your family. Same for me. It's like this is you know, the ever we were all drinkers together. Totally. And I was the first one to get in recovery, and maybe I don't know if they the rest are the lot of sobriety. I have that relationship back, you know, I which I was losing in my drinking because of resentments and this and that. Now it's just me, like, and it sounds like you you found the same thing. It's like and probably in a in in a better way than you ever had it before because it's not the relationship that you wanted, tried so hard to it's just what it is, and you're grateful for it. Have you made amends or told them you're grateful for things like that? What how how have you brought recovery to that relationship?

SPEAKER_07 48:00

Oh, big time. I mean, I think what I didn't realize when I got into recovery was were some of the things that people in my family were still grappling with. So I remember talking to my brother when I gave him amends, and he said, I've been, I've been so afraid the last couple of years that like I was the reason that like I enabled you because like we would go drink together sometimes, right? And like you don't realize like all the weight sometimes that other people carry in their life. And I think like the biggest and best blessing I've been able to give my family is that like it's not on any of them. Like my recovery is mine, it's not anyone else's responsibility. And I think just like the biggest thing for my family too is showing up. Like great relationships are built on like two people being able to show up for one another.

unknown 48:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 48:42

And that's really like that's what it is in our family now. I am as loved as I've always been by them, but I'm finally like awake enough to experience it. And that, and I think that is like one of my greatest sadnesses for people who may be struggling to get into recovery, right? Or who may just kind of like spend their life circling the drain, is there is so much in your life that exists right in this very moment that you are only going to be able to see once you surrender and once you give up drinking and get into recovery. And and a beautiful life is I don't think it was something that I necessarily like created out of nothing when I got sober. It was there the whole time. I just I started to live in it.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

What you just said was just so beautiful. And I'm just remembered when we first started, you were talking about how you grew up and we didn't have these dialogue of therapy talks and people didn't talk that way.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

And here you are on social media now creating that dialogue. How amazing is that to like know that you're h you're you're you're helping others that probably didn't have that either growing up, but now you're fostering this, it's okay to talk about these things.

SPEAKER_07 49:54

Alcoholism is not shameful. Um, and it took me a long time to wrap my head around that. And I I just want other people to understand that like this is not it's not a moral failing. You haven't done anything wrong. And it's okay to ask for help. And like you're not weak for asking for help. And there's like there is the whole life I was chasing when I was drinking happened to me when I got sober. I wouldn't have believed that if you told me. And so I get it when people are like, I don't, I don't, I just don't think that's gonna happen. Like I couldn't envision a life without alcohol before I got sober, but it it really like it really does happen.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

You're chasing a life and now you're in recovery, you're accepting that this is the life. I'm not chasing anything that's like it's this, and how amazing is that?

SPEAKER_06 50:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

What have you found that just you didn't see coming at all?

SPEAKER_07 50:47

I think the biggest thing for me is is just being okay with me, right? Like it's it's it's being able to spend time with myself and and look in the mirror and and feel okay with who I see looking back at me. And I had an opportunity in December to take a solo trip to Paris. And like I could never have imagined in a million years going to Paris and not drinking alcohol. I went when I was 12 for the first time, and I was I'm Irish.

SPEAKER_00 51:12

Yeah. Like I don't I didn't think I'd ever be able to go to Ireland, but I'm like, I'm totally fine.

SPEAKER_07 51:18

Yeah. And I was able to go and and I had the best, the absolute best time. And I was able to go to meetings when I was there, and I was just it was just this like, wow, I get this big, beautiful life, and I get to do all of these things because I'm not sitting alone at home drinking and being mad at the world because my life looks the way that it does.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

Right. You took that chance, you went to the meetings, yes, you got the tools. Yeah, you really changed everything.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

Well, I I what I like to say is is is one of my favorite sayings is that recovery exists on the other side of fear. Do you feel is that one of the things that you're that you're feeling now is a lot less fear.

SPEAKER_07 52:01

Yes and no. I think fear is fear is still something I grapple with, but I Well, it's always gonna be, yeah. But I will say a quote that I love that a friend said to me early on in recovery is feelings aren't facts, right? So it's really that feel the fear and do it anyway. 12-step recovery. It's not it's not about how you feel because if it's about how I feel, I'm gonna drink every single time.

SPEAKER_06 52:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 52:24

And so it's about being really scared and then moving through it anyway because you have this faith and this trust that like there is a bigger plan for you, and that I don't actually need to figure it out. Like that is not, yeah, that is not my job. And what a what a relief.

SPEAKER_05 52:38

So imagine there's someone out there struggling right now. What's something you would want them to know?

SPEAKER_07 52:43

Everything that you want right now is on the other side of that last drink. All the things that you're chasing right now with alcohol are only things that happen when you stop drinking. You know, our brains are wired to be looking for that next dopamine hit. And I think the amazing thing about recovery is it teaches you like how to be squarely in the middle and to not constantly be chasing the highs and lows of life. And I think another thing that I got told early on as well is I needed to find a way to define myself outside of believing that I was like above or below other people and finding identity that has nothing to do with what anybody else is doing has been a huge thing for me.

SPEAKER_05 53:19

You have an amazing way with words. I mean, yes, absolutely. That was wonderful. Um, this has been absolutely wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us here. I'm glad you came up, Nort to join us here in Wisconsin. Oh my god. Um tell us where all our viewers can find you. What are your socials?

SPEAKER_07 53:34

Yeah, my socials are just at Elizabeth. So that was a COVID account that I made when I thought I was gonna post food. Love that, love that.

SPEAKER_00 53:42

Yeah, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_05 53:43

Commit, commit. All right. Well, thank you again so much for coming. Thank you all for joining us today, and have a wonderful rest of your day.