Kevin Kreider | Alcohol & Weed Addiction, Trauma, & 12‑Step Recovery

Kevin Kreider’s raw story of adoption, alcoholism and healing challenges everything you think you know about recovery. A Korean adoptee raised by a German‑Irish Catholic family in Philadelphia, Kevin battled depression, anxiety, alopecia and a desperate need to belong. Alcohol and weed offered brief relief but quickly spiraled into 20‑hour drinking sessions, broken relationships and career collapse.

We hear how Kevin’s father captured him on camera at his worst, how high‑school partying cost him a promising athletic career, and how pain drove him toward acting in New York, where booze felt more necessary than auditions. Kevin opens up about the cultural pressures of being a Korean American male, the shame surrounding addiction in Asian communities, and why he finally called himself an alcoholic. He explains how a single AA meeting on Thanksgiving, supportive roommates and his then‑girlfriend Devon moved him toward sober living in 2015. Over the next six years he rebuilt his life through 12‑step recovery, therapy, sleep hygiene, diet changes and renewed Christian faith, transforming his platform on Bling Empire into advocacy for mental health and sobriety.

Kevin’s journey shows that recovery isn’t about losing yourself—it’s about gaining an authentic identity, clearer purpose and stronger relationships. He now speaks out to normalize sobriety within the Asian community, encourage men to seek help, and remind everyone that it’s never too late to change.

Find mental health and addiction treatment near you: https://recovery.com/

Stay tuned as Kevin shares practical advice on emotional regulation, the importance of good sleep, and why sobriety is the ultimate performance hack. If you or someone you know is struggling, this episode offers hope and actionable steps toward healing. Don’t forget to subscribe, comment with your thoughts, and share this powerful story with a friend who might need it.

⏱️ Chapters:
00:00 – Intro & Kevin’s background
02:10 – Adoption, identity struggles & growing up Korean adoptee
05:45 – High‑school and college drinking, party culture & consequences
09:30 – Rock bottom: career collapse, father’s tough love & first AA meeting
13:00 – Sobriety tools: therapy, 12‑step recovery, faith & advocacy

❓ Questions the Video Answers:

1. What led Kevin Kreider to start drinking alcohol and smoking weed?
2. How did being adopted from Korea affect his identity and mental health?
3. When did Kevin realize alcohol was ruining his athletic and acting dreams?
4. How did his father intervene and encourage him toward sobriety?
5. Why do some Asian cultures struggle to acknowledge alcoholism and recovery?
6. What role did AA and the 12‑step program play in Kevin’s recovery?
7. How did Kevin’s alopecia and depression influence his addiction?
8. What challenges did he face when joining the cast of Bling Empire sober?
9. How does Kevin balance his recovery with a public career?
10. What daily practices (sleep, diet, meetings) support his sobriety?
11. How can loved ones support someone struggling with addiction?
12. What misconceptions do people have about being sober and “boring”?
13. Why is spirituality or faith important in Kevin’s recovery journey?
14. What message does Kevin have for Asian Americans facing addiction stigma?
15. How can you find help for mental health or addiction treatment?

#AddictionRecovery #MentalHealth #Sobriety

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You know, at one point I thought I've I mean, this is after smoking and joining and and having some vodka. I was like, I know how the universe came to be. I forgot.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Dang.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

I forgot the next morning. It was really awesome. I write this stuff down.

SPEAKER_04 0:14

Because next year you're like, I'm pretty sure I had a completely new experience and I figured out life.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

I knew it. And if I could just have my friend who was high with me remember too.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

Welcome to Recovery Cast, where we share real and authentic stories about mental health and addiction recovery and the journeys that led us here. I am your host, Britney Baynard, and today we are joined by Kevin Kreider. Thank you so much for coming in today.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

My pleasure, Brittany.

SPEAKER_05 0:45

Yes. Kevin is an actor, producer, and TV personality. You will know him from Bling Empire, also the traitors. But behind cameras, Kevin's story is one of resilience. Born in Seoul and adopted into a German-Irish family in Philadelphia, he grew up wrestling with identity and stereotypes and belonging. After struggles with depression, anxiety, alcoholism, and even sudden loss of his own hair from alopecia, Kevin chose sobriety in 2015 and rebuilt his life through recovery, uh therapy and purpose. Today he uses his platform to advocate for mental health, challenge stereotypes, and show that recovery can open the door to a more authentic and grounded life. Kevin, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Pleasure to be here. First time in Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_05 1:29

I know. Really happy to have you here. I feel like everybody always says that they're like, I've never been here. Have you ever thought about coming to Wisconsin?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

No.

SPEAKER_05 1:35

No, there's no reason to. But like now that you're here, it's super cute, right? Yeah. You flew over a little bit. There's some lights.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

It's true. Like, actually, I was stopped at a local bar.

SPEAKER_05 1:44

Ironic that we're talking about a local bar. They're just everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

But it's the home base that I kind of missed. Yeah. And I remember like growing up and going to a local bar and just seeing people that I knew or going with a friend and just shooting the breeze with anybody.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

This is that atmosphere.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Well, yeah, but that's why I was like, wow, this brings me back so much nostalgia. It was just so crazy. I mean, I didn't want to go back in there and get like hammering or anything, but it was just like I like that feeling of, hey, what are you doing on a Friday night? A homey place. Go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

See what's around.

SPEAKER_05 2:18

Yep. But yeah, it's just where you get your pizza and you sit there and eat for a while. You see like families and stuff come in that y'all know. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:25

We have Pictures Pub.

SPEAKER_05 2:26

It was like Yeah, we have one of those too.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Pictures or something like that. It was like, yeah, but it was pretty gross.

SPEAKER_05 2:33

Yeah. Uh-huh. Nobody ever cleaned the tap lines or anything. Yeah. Okay. Um, before we dive in, what are you hoping someone might take away from your story?

SPEAKER_00 2:42

For this story, I hope that people see being sober and in recovery more like a secret code to like life. Yes. I think that recovery, sobriety has so much self-help wisdom from, I would say if you do 12 steps, then it's wisdom from past religion and the way they did things to get a spiritual experience, that you get closer to your higher power, to get closer to people. It is a secret code of life.

SPEAKER_05 3:15

I love the way you explain that too, because I've never heard someone say that. But the second you said it, I was like, that's so true. And you described like the growth, the changes, like the connection to a spiritual self. And the opposite of that, in that state of addiction, is that like stagnant. I'm not going anywhere. I feel like this inside, but on the other side of that is like eternal growth. There's always something beautiful, something new, something that you couldn't even imagine for yourself on the other side of that.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

I mean, there's only so much alcohol and drugs you can do to fill yourself up.

SPEAKER_05 3:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

But with like a spiritual growth, like it's endless.

SPEAKER_05 3:50

Um, so yeah, I'd love to take it back to your childhood. Um, tell us what it was like growing up as a Korean adoptee in Philadelphia to a German-Irish Catholic family.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Yeah, well, my first three years was kind of a blank. Actually, it was a total blank. I just remember coming off a plane, getting into my dad's arms, and just knowing that this was going to be my family.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Really?

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Which is kind of weird because my family and my adoption origins is like just being passed around my birth family, and then to this doorstep, and then all of a sudden into an adoption center, and then taking a year or so to get adopted. And, you know, there was another boy who was three years old that my parents wanted to adopt, and then that fell through. Wow. And so that's where it's like when a lot of adoptees have a hard time, and by the way, there's a lot of alcoholism and divorce and adopt in adoptee world. And when I hear a lot of adoptees say like they just wish they weren't adopted, I don't know why, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, that is like ridiculous. Like, even if your life was pretty crappy here, could you imagine what it was going to be like in Korea with no education, being just like not adopted? Like it's pretty bad over there.

SPEAKER_05 5:08

Yeah. And I'd have to imagine the people making that decision are making it based on something.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Well, unfortunately, a lot of it was based in Korea. It was based off of like shame. So, like if you're married and you get a divorce and you have a kid in Korean culture, it's like you're probably not going to get married again. Oh, okay. And we're even dating, right? So it's based off of shame, which is the worst part. So I think a lot of people bring that shame on them. But where I look into my life, I see that it's a miracle I was there. Yeah. It's like, I think we have too many delusions of grandeur of like, oh, I was gonna be a K-pop star. No, you weren't. You were gonna be probably working the fields. The same person you were here, serving 50 cent whatever's on the street. Like there was no jobs for you, you know? And so I I seriously see it as such a miracle to begin with, which is ironic because then obviously I got into alcoholism and everything, but that's because uh I was brought into a world where I was the only person that really was from this world of Korean that I look Korean and then I was also American. So it's like, which one do I really fit in? Because I wasn't treated like an American, but I also wasn't treated like I was Korean.

SPEAKER_05 6:24

Yeah, it's a really weird gray spot for people.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Exactly. I actually stopped kind of like recently saying like I wasn't treated white, you know, but it's like, no, I wanted to be treated like I was from here.

SPEAKER_05 6:34

That is it. That is it. I want to be treated like you're it's when I walk in a room, it's not the first thing you're seeing. I don't want it to be like I don't see color because I want you to see it and I want you to see it as something interesting and beautiful that like I'm so excited to get to know this other person. Yeah, but to be a kid growing up and feeling othered in that way is extremely tough to deal with.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, and actually it's like weird, it's like so kids are really blunt and very obvious that like you're not from here, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

But like I look at social media influencers now and all that crap that's out there, and I'm like, oh, they're just really like kids are just evil. Uh-huh. I mean, there's there's leave a device to give kids any any like platform to say whatever they want, and it is just bad stuff coming out of it.

SPEAKER_05 7:22

I'm so grateful I did not have the ability to just shoot off my thoughts as a teenager because they weren't great. They weren't great, they weren't great, and I thought I had a hot take on stuff.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

They weren't articulated, the opinions aren't original, they're mean, they're ill-spirited, they're hypocritical.

SPEAKER_05 7:40

They usually lack thinking about what the other person's going through. Right. Which is how it's always like the kid struggling who gets picked on the most.

SPEAKER_04 7:47

You're like, why would you target someone who's already struggling? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

That goes back to growing up. It's like literally in my house, it was like, oh, there is no real color because I don't see you as anything else, but the outside world did.

SPEAKER_05 7:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

So it was kind of this like Yeah. And then I would say, like, oh man, I just, you know, I would tell my mom, like, ah man, am I attractive enough? Am I everything enough? And, you know, she would just tell me, you're going through an awkward stage. It's like, it's not because you're Asian. It's not because it's just like girls, you know, oh, she's cute. Like, maybe you just need to become more confident and all that stuff. And, you know, a lot of the stuff she said was somewhat true, right? But when I really did look at it, like there was this gnawing thing at me that it was like, no, I'm not treated the same.

SPEAKER_05 8:32

You're not wrong. Yeah. And we need to be told we're not wrong.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

I mean, it's like you look at all these movies, and like the best athlete on the football team gets the girls. Well, I was the best athlete on the football team. I didn't get any girls. So it was like, there was something really weird about like having it all, but not having it all. And it was like very odd to me. It was um, and so I I carry that with me for a little bit, which is um, if I had somebody to probably talk to, I might have been able to like, or mentor, it's like, oh no, like it would have been great if somebody really told me through experience saying like, hey, what's making you different is gonna actually make you stand out later. Yes, and be be useful and like be great. So don't carry this BS with you, right? Because there was a lot of BS I was carrying around. Like I'm probably I'm probably positive I ruined a lot of good relationships because of like some resentment that was built up, which is what led me to drinking and all that stuff. Cycles, cycles, right? And then the outward, outward world just was like not really nice, it was really cruel and in like weird ways. Like it was it was so micro too. It wasn't like macro, as in like somebody was beating me up, right?

SPEAKER_05 9:45

Somebody might yell something and say something that might be like the macro, but like it's micro because a lot of things are systemic.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Right. Or like walk I'm walking down the street and they just put a shoulder into me, you know?

SPEAKER_05 9:58

Or just don't move all together.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

Yeah. Or it was just a lot of different little little aggressions, right?

SPEAKER_05 10:03

Yes, yeah. How did your early experience with bullying and the stereotypes about Asian masculinity affect you?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah, and I didn't even know what Asian masculinity was back then.

SPEAKER_05 10:14

There's no word, yeah, there's not words for it.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Masculinity at the time. And I just looked at Asians because of the way I was treated, the community treated me, and the way community mocked Asians, as like, okay, Asians aren't cool. Uh, even though we had Bruce Lee. And yeah, I know, but by the way, like it's weird because Bruce Lee was our only role model at the time, but yet everybody mocked him because it was like the weird sounds he made, and it was just like people he was he was flying. Low-hanging fruit. Right. And so like I knew there was definitely a disrespect that people had for Asians because if media really affected people's mindsets, they would be afraid to actually mock us. Because they're like, didn't you see Bruce Lee beats everybody up?

SPEAKER_04 11:01

Yeah, you should be afraid.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

You should be afraid, but no, instead they mocked us.

SPEAKER_04 11:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

So that's why I was like, okay, Asians are definitely disrespected everywhere. And it makes you not want to be Asian.

SPEAKER_05 11:12

Yeah, I felt the same way about being black. I was like, being called pretty for a black girl made me feel like shit. So I wanted to not associate myself with that.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

And sometimes like I went the other way. It's like, no, okay, I'm gonna make them, I'm gonna stand out.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

I'm gonna be the Asian guy that's like, you know, ripped, jacked, uh, get the girls, can drink any Irishman down, you know. And by the way, that happened. Like, I was like, I was really great at drinking at the time. Well, as in volume, I wasn't a good person when I was drinking. That's putting them down. That's a different I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

I wasn't a good drunk, actually. And so I did everything I could to stand out more. Yeah, and it worked for a little bit until it stopped working.

SPEAKER_05 11:55

Do you feel like it was to stand out and like it sounds like in a way for acceptance?

SPEAKER_00 12:00

It was really acceptance, it was belonging. I wanted to belong, but when you try to belong, that's when you actually stop belonging.

SPEAKER_05 12:08

Right. Because you change everything about yourself to fit in with something that you probably normally take anything at this point.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

And it's odd because like I felt like, oh, maybe the Asians are right. Like, I shouldn't want to have this really nice chiseled body because it was like consider Western, and then they'll look at everybody, everybody like in Korea's trying. It's like, no, it's crazy to me, you know. It's like, but what I realized is that that was their insecurity because they couldn't have it. So it's like you always have the first person to tell someone you shouldn't have this when you think you can't have it. Yeah, it's like rich people, like you shouldn't be rich. Well, it's because you don't believe you could do it. Yeah. So I heard that from so much of the Asian community that it's like, I wanted to belong to the Asian community now, right? To be real, I had more confidence actually when I was in the white community. Because the white community, like at least the one that I grew up with, didn't have this baggage. If anything, they were helping me through it. They're like, hey, look, we're not denying race doesn't happen, but like the more you give into it, the more it's gonna take over. Why don't you use it for good? You know, like they were giving me really positive things. Yeah. But the more I got into the Asian community growing up, the more that negativity took over.

SPEAKER_05 13:19

Do you feel like you weren't hitting, like, okay, I feel like I nailed white, but I haven't broke through on the Asian side yet?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

It was so much Reddit stuff that was like, okay, Asian guys, I know what that resentment feels like, that anger. Let me use it for good. Yeah. But this is actually after I got sober. Okay. During when I got sober, I said, fuck him. Well, who cares? You know what I mean? Like while I'm drinking, you know? Yeah. That was my outlet. That was my outlet, and I had no other outlet. Therapy really wasn't working because um, I mean, for for instance, um, there needs to be more male therapy therapists to begin with. I got paired up with male therapists, but I needed an Asian male therapist who could understand and like actually tell me, like, hey, historically, this is what happens. Right. But you don't have to be that way. Like things are changing. Look at the role models that we have. Like, he needs to be a little bit of a historian too. But it's like, I didn't know we had all these Asian role models.

SPEAKER_05 14:14

Yeah. No, but I I I completely agree with that. This past year is the first time I found a black therapist. Because I was like, I should just need to not feel in the moment when I'm telling somebody what has happened that I'm holding back because I don't want to offend a white person who is my therapist when I'm talking about something I experienced. Like, why am I dieting down a session about me because of somebody else? And I don't want to hurt their feelings. Like, okay, but my feelings are hurt. So I need to take care of that.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

My other white um friends, they were so they were gay too. So they understood what it was like to be different, right? Which was like a really good thing. They were my therapy, they were the worst dating coaches I could ever have, actually. That's why I was single for so long. But yeah, so it was very conflicting because it was like, I let me let me play on this side for being Asian for a while, let me play on this side, being white and American. It's like, are you Korean American? Are you American Korean? Are you just American? Why can't you just be American? Yeah. And it's like, well, because there's so many parameters to being American, and I don't fit one big parameter, which is color. It's a huge one.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Um, I just seesawed in between. So it was very confusing. I personally nowadays, like, I consider myself more American than Korean. And a lot of my Asian community will hate me for that. They're like, you should really be proud. And I'm like, but you know, I hate to sell this. If you're not that proud of me too, why should I be proud to be Korean?

SPEAKER_04 15:44

It works for you.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

You know, like I so desperately wanted to be Korean and accepted. I even went to Korea at one point, tried to like see if I could be in the entertainment industry, maybe I could have a new life, blah, blah, blah. There was just so much rejection. You got to change your eyes, your face, your body.

SPEAKER_05 16:01

They thought you were like too Western.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

I was well, I was too too much.

SPEAKER_05 16:04

Yeah, you're you're an American. You're not, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

You're too old. Uh, by the way, I was only like 25, you know.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Rude?

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Yeah. It was like, you're too old. I was like, all these things I couldn't really change. Yeah. So I just felt rejected so much. And then, you know, even in, you know, Korean Hollywood, it's like very interesting. It's like, you know, they like being around me, but like there's not much work. Like, no one's working with each other as Koreans, you know, in Hollywood. They're here. In Hollywood, like my peers, you know. Uh, because you're not Korean enough then. So I'm like, okay, well, if I'm not Korean enough, like let me just go back to where I was, which is I'm just fucking American.

SPEAKER_05 16:39

It's so hard. It's like ping-ponging back and forth. And I'm like, I I understand that ping-pong because I never felt like I fit in with this group. But then when I got the chance to be with the other side, they weren't very welcoming to me either and pointed out every super white thing about me.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:54

But I was like, so where was this middle ground? Because I know I'm not the only person sitting in this middle ground. I wish I would have found more people in that middle ground to find myself at a sooner time and to have that like relationship. Because I don't know if I was really looking for like I think I had it. I think I had on both sides at least a person who I felt very accepted by, but there wasn't some and like somebody accepting you and hearing you feels really different than someone that's like, I see you. Like I've experienced it. I see you.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

It's weird. It's like I know a lot of Asians want to just be accepted by white people.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

And it's just like, okay, well, let me I was already ahead.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

All the best people I've ever worked with to this day that have been pivotal in my career. The only people who have truly believed in my work so far have been white people. But to be real, like that is just a flat out statement. I've tried, I went to the Asian community first. I still do, by the way. But it's like I'm giving them the opportunity first, and it's like it's always just the white people always supporting me. So it was like that's why I say it's like I am going back to just like, hey, I'm American. I'm Korean blood. If you want me to be Korean, sure, I'll do it now. Just because it's like I want to work with people, like Asians and Koreans. Yeah. But I I also feel like I have this unique bridge now because Asians don't know what sobriety is. People Asians most in general don't know what recovery is. They have saving face and not wanting, like, just hold on to your drinking, you know, you'll be better at it. It's like, no, like you don't know the beauty of sobriety.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Um, I talk about like even entertainment and and confidence and faith and stuff, and they don't understand that. And I'm like, I can bridge that, but like there's still a little bit of um, it's still a little behind. Even health and wellness, like I was talking about health and wellness a long time, like building up your body, like all these things, and Asians didn't care. You know, they would laugh and be like, oh, you're Western, you know, you're letting the Western people. And now everybody's into it, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

You know, if I would have just stayed my path, not listened to Asians so much, actually, you know, just listen to my own voice, which I know Asians will say, well, the white person's voice, but I'm like, hey, it's doom you're it's just the voice you have. It was just my voice. And I was raised by white people, and I didn't really think about like, oh, um, am I Korean enough until I started to hang out with Koreans?

SPEAKER_05 19:20

Yeah, because it's the same on the other side. I was worried about being okay in this circle of white people, and it didn't change until I got around the other circle.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

And the only thing that I could do just as well as any Korean or better was drink.

SPEAKER_05 19:34

So when did drinking like present itself in your life?

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Oh man, I was really young. I was probably only like 10. Oh, okay. But that was my first drink.

SPEAKER_05 19:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

It but it didn't continue then.

SPEAKER_05 19:45

Right. I was my I think my dad gave me like a sip of Budweiser when I was like five or six or something because I kept on grabbing at the can. I know. Um I thought it was gross. But then yeah, so like when I think yeah, then again it was 14 is when I like started. But yeah, I was how was that for you? So 10 was the first one, but you didn't like kick off at 10.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Did not kick off at 10. It I probably kicked off around 14. And I 14's that age. Yeah, it really, really kicked off for me where I was like, wow, this is like that spiritual experience I was looking for.

SPEAKER_05 20:16

What was the feeling for you?

SPEAKER_00 20:18

It was just like I I I wasn't Asian anymore. You know, like for the first time ever, those voice, yeah, those voices just shut off. Yeah, I wasn't even mad about anything. You know, at one point I thought I have to, I mean, this is after smoking and joining and and having some vodka. I was like, I know how the universe came to be. I forgot I forgot the next morning. It was really awesome.

SPEAKER_04 20:43

Write this stuff down because next year you're like, I'm pretty sure I had a completely new experience and I figured out life. I knew it. Damn it.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

I knew it. And if I could just have my friend who was high with me remember too.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

But you remember, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Both forgot the next day, unfortunately. Yeah. We would be on science and whatever, prunk covers. But um, that was when it really took off. But that's when I realized, like, oh, this was my tool, this was my vehicle to get to the group to belong.

SPEAKER_05 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

To like not be seen as like kind of stops the questioning.

SPEAKER_05 21:15

It's like the thing. I don't have to worry about this if I do this, because then it kind of just like fixes all of that.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Totally. And so like I started to build groups around that were like all about drinking.

SPEAKER_05 21:25

And you know, you want to be able to hit someone up on a weeknight and go do the thing because exactly we don't like sitting with our own thoughts sometimes. Too much, too much, you know. Yeah. And did it continue with drinking like through high school?

SPEAKER_00 21:36

Oh, high school was probably high school and college were definitely the peaks, right? Because it was like parents' money, and like not my money, and other kids' parents' money paying for all of this. And high school was just like that's when it really started to take a downturn, I could tell, my senior year, because like my my athletic ability was always growing every year. Yeah. And senior year. Year was like actually when it all started to crumble, like you know, my I blew my arm out, you know, but also too, I was getting high the night before, had a few drinks, I wasn't well rested. It's like, oh well, it finally caught up to me.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Um, I was very sluggish, I wasn't able to run, and it's just like, you know, I guess sports wasn't really it for me, you know? And then college came around.

SPEAKER_05 22:22

You're like, I guess the sports just quit on me.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah, but it's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 22:26

I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Yeah, the best athletes don't do that crap, yeah, especially during the season. And so it really made me realize like, wow, this this power of just wanting to belong is really insane, insidious because it was like it took over a dream of mine, which is a good thing. Yeah, something you were really good at, yeah. Yeah. And actually, I mean, it even took over like my acting career. I mean, I remember going to New York and it's like, audition or go out drinking, you know, like drinking, you know, like maybe I should just go out drinking, you know. But a normal person would be like, hey, why don't you go out and celebrate? I graduated acting school and I had an audition the next day. I was like, hey, why don't you go out with your acting school and uh just not drink? Or just have a couple drinks like a normal person. But that wasn't in my thought. It was just like either get wasted or hammered, yeah, or don't at all. Party, yes. And I was like, I can't give this up. I gotta go. And then I went into audition. It was like, it was such a flop. It was ridiculous. Like, and by the way, people know it more than me at the time.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

It's like people can see it. You think you're holding it together. Yeah, we all think we're holding it together really quick.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

It's like, man, it's like I look at it like alcohol definitely stripped away a lot of my dreams early on, you know. I'm not saying I was gonna get the roles, but it's like no, but it's stay, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:50

It's just like that is unfortunate, you know.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Yeah. So then you went to acting school, you moved to New York, or did you know so I was personal training for a little bit for about three, four years. And um you're a personal trainer? Yeah. In Philadelphia. Yeah. It was just a great way to like provide for like my drinking habits for sure.

SPEAKER_05 24:08

Like social.

unknown 24:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

It was really good for me at the time, you know. But it was like what I really didn't like about personal training was there was only so many ways I could tell people how to lift heavier weights, don't eat as much, and sleep well.

SPEAKER_05 24:25

That is interesting. You are guiding people to a healthier version of themselves. And Minstwile.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Right. I was not doing it. Yeah. You know.

SPEAKER_05 24:34

But it's, I mean, I don't think that's uncommon, I think, in a lot of different aspects. That's like a mother who's literally crawling, but everybody else at the house is perfect, the kids are taking care of everything's doing it because like it's the thing. I like the external thing where I can look like I'm keeping it together. It's all together. We can take care of stuff. I like making other people happy and making sure you're set up. But me on the inside, crumbling.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Like it's just not working. Well, it's like they say it's like who's the best relationship coach? Oh, it's the person who got divorced five times.

SPEAKER_05 25:03

Yeah, I know that person.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

It's like who knows who's the best health person or it's a person who likes to party and like really knows all the cheat codes on like how to like get in shape and still look good while you're partying, you know? Like they're actually probably the best coaches, actually. Yeah. But do what they say and don't think about it. Not what they do, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:23

I don't want to tell you what to do. I'm not doing it, but you should definitely do it. Were there any warning signs early that alcohol is coming more than like a normal problem? Like when you're describing just the last like high school, college, uh physical training. Is there anyone in your life that's like, you party a little too much?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Oh, yeah. I mean, it wasn't my friends at the time. It was my my dad.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Really?

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Yeah, my dad was actually a really good um influence in my life. He he he had so many great things to say to me actually at the time. He had three that I still remember to this day. One is he took a photo of me when I was drinking. It was my 22nd or 23rd birthday, and I was loaded.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Really?

SPEAKER_00 26:05

I mean, this is when cameras were just starting to become a thing. And he's like, I'm not gonna tell anybody about this, but he didn't upload it on his MySpace the next day. I looked awful, and I was like, Wow, that's embarrassing. And he's like, I think you got a problem. Like he was basically he didn't say.

SPEAKER_05 26:22

I want you to see this, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

I want you to see what you look like while you were that's a loving move, yeah. And he's like, You know who cleaned this shit that you brought in yesterday? I like literally stepped in dog shit and like brought it into the whole house. He's like, You're your your girlfriend at the time. And I was like, Wow, I didn't know that, you know, and he's like, and you were also mean to her, you know. I was like, oh, so it's like all this gill, right? Like building up, and that was the first sign of alcoholism that I was like, Oh, maybe this is something. Like there were other warning signs too, but I took it as like I can still control this because I'm young enough.

SPEAKER_05 26:56

It's a one-off, like I won't do that again.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Yeah, but there were so many. It was like I had a great chance for this men's health fitness shoot. They were like, hey, if you do really well, like we're gonna put your abs on the front cover. Well, I drank so much I didn't have any abs, right?

SPEAKER_05 27:10

Like no six pack unless you want this one. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

It's like it's so many chances. This is why, like, my my girl, my fiance now says, Yeah, my yeah, Devon says, She's like, God loves you because he gives you so many chances and so many things. And I'm like, Yeah, I mean, like, I don't deserve a lot of these things. I made wrong choices, but I still get such a gift from being sober. Um, and I think that's one of the beauties is that like when I was drinking, I still got chances, but I like I lost it.

SPEAKER_05 27:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Um, and now, like, now that I'm sober, it's like, okay, if I really don't capitalize on things, this is me.

SPEAKER_05 27:48

You're like, I've been there, I've done this, I've I know what the wrong choice here looks like. I'm not doing that again.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_05 27:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

Um, you know, I made wrong choices now, but they're not like life and death. Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

And you're making them with a clear head.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

More of a clear head. Um, and if I'm if it's not, it's higher stakes, so there's a little bit more going on. It's like, but there was a lot of things that were just clear signs like this is probably enough.

SPEAKER_05 28:10

How were your relationships while you were drinking? Personal, romantic, romantic, person like friendships, romantic relationships.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

I mean, my friendships were pretty um basic of like as long as you drink with me, we're good.

SPEAKER_05 28:23

That was very like surface level. I'm gonna text you for happy hours and going out on the weekend. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

I mean, I remember some days we would start at like 11, we wouldn't stop drinking until Monday, you know.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

We gotta go. Right, exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Very normal uh at the time. But then, you know, my romantic relationships often crumbled because a lot of my friends didn't see who I was when I went home.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

And that's where it got really tricky because they'd be like, Hey, you were really fine up until 1 a.m. I was like, Yeah, but you didn't have to come home with me.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

My my girlfriend saw how much of a waste I was, you know. I I mean, so many drunks can probably relate to this where it's like you go home and you're like, he's just like eating all the chips, and you're like frantic and stuff. And it's just like, yeah, but in that time period is where the damage is done if you're around other people. And so, like, they didn't see me in that and they didn't they thought I was okay.

SPEAKER_05 29:16

Yeah, which is really hard because that person that loves you also has to navigate like, is this something we just keep between us and we try and work on, or the people that already know? Yeah. Am I able to reach out for help? What does that look like for you if I do that? Because these are our friends.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Yeah. Or sometimes I'd be with a girl just to like have some companionship while I went through like detoxing or like bodybuilding shows, and it was like, yeah, it was really tough. So it was like, man, I I definitely was not the best partner at the time. And like, by the way, this is why I say, like, maybe even today, like, I think most men shouldn't even really be in like a serious, serious relationship until they're 30s.

SPEAKER_05 29:58

Okay, uh, producer, director, I'm gonna need you to play that five times in a row when we air this.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

I don't think they should not date because they gotta learn.

SPEAKER_05 30:06

I agree. I I get what you're saying because I tell people, I have two kids, and I'm like, wait till you're at least 30. I had one at 24 and 34. Wait until you're at least 30. I just think there's a whole lot of growing in things. Get ever get the stuff out of your system, not like horrible stuff, but like there's just a lot to learn about yourself and about how to treat other people and while caring for yourself. Not in a selfish way, but in like an adult way.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

Yeah. Yeah. And I'd say that's good advice for people that live in cities. I think if you don't live in cities, it's a little bit different. Like what I mean by that is like, you know, when you're in the middle of America, it's like there's only like super.

SPEAKER_05 30:44

That's why we have cuffing seasons.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

It's like, oh, you know who you're gonna be with, right? It's like they don't have as many choices. Um, and they they they know they know their trajectory. But I think when you live in a city, it's really tough.

SPEAKER_05 30:57

There's so many options available.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

You gotta get to know yourself better. There's higher stakes. It's like you guys want bigger dreams. Like, I think it's time for you to grow more in your 20s, 30s, sure. Like, start start really thinking about it.

SPEAKER_05 31:09

Yeah, I definitely felt that with some friends I had in bigger cities. And I'm like, I'm 23, and they're like, I'm 23. It's like you wear a suit every day. I'm like, I'm not there yet. And I just don't feel that way. I felt like a kid. Um, yeah, it felt like they were in just more of like a they just knew where they were going.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

Especially alcoholics. I mean, like, literally, they call it Peter Pan syndrome for a reason.

SPEAKER_05 31:31

1920 out at the bars, and at someone at that age would be like, Oh, you're 34 and you're still out here like doing this thing. Now I'm 34. I'm like, shut up, younger Brittany, that wasn't old. But yes, you shouldn't be doing this anymore. Yeah, it's really tough. So it it sounds like it just keeps on going. Like there's not anything that's filling that that thing for you either.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

No, it really hit me around when I was in my when I was about to turn 30, and I was like, wow, I don't really have much to show for. And I'm about to get into the best years of my life. And so I was like, I knew I was gonna stop drinking as much and start to and by the way, it started to work a little bit, just not drinking, you know, for a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 32:09

Did you choose to not drink, or you were like, I think I just need to change like my lifestyle? And that kind of happened with it.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

I just knew I didn't need to stop drinking. Yeah. Like that because there was a pattern. I was like, every time I start drinking, my life crumbles, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:20

This happened. There's alcohol there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

Make decisions and everything. So I was like, but the problem that I had was I was such a miserable person. So if I was so miserable when I wasn't drinking, I was like, I don't know if I can continue this. So I'd always go back to it for a little bit. Yeah. But then I'd be so miserable when I was drinking because I was like, I can't drink the way I want to anymore. Yeah. And it's like it started to go back and forth a lot. So I was like, you know, let me just stop this for a little bit. I met Devon at the time and I got my life back together. Um, you know, I was in $20 plus thousand dollars of credit card debt. I had like $500 in my bank account in my name. That's all I had. I was negative a lot of money and on paper value-wise. Living on the couch or this really weird place that my cousin hooked me up with in Fishtown. Um, you know, it was weird just because I didn't know the people. They're very lovely people. But it was like, What am I doing here? It was, yeah, I was like, I'm like 30 years old and I'm living with my cousin's friends. Like, this is not cool, you know. After my dad kicked me out of the apartment out of his home, you know.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Why'd he kick you out?

SPEAKER_00 33:29

He just said, I can't enable you anymore.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Which is, by the way, another loving thing my dad's done. And I didn't hate him for it, actually.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

Um, the other thing that I hated him for, he told me, you know, when I was 29, he's like, I was like, I want to be a life coach. And he's like, Kevin, you need to have a life. I was like, I hate you for that. But he with that one, he was so right. Second, second best thing he's ever said to me. Um, third was that I got I need to start social media because I was against social media up until I was uh 30. So really, yeah, I was so against social media.

SPEAKER_05 34:08

Even with like we're trying to get in the business done.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Yeah, because I'm I was I'm an actor.

SPEAKER_05 34:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Like in acting school, we're taught to actually be against social media because you don't want to be a hack.

SPEAKER_05 34:17

Or like it's easier for people to put you in a role where they already don't think you embody this certain thing, or when people see too much of you, they're like, but he's he's Kevin, he's this, he can't he can't be this like character that does something else. Yeah, obviously. Big switch now.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Lots changed since then, but like, yeah, I was totally against it. Um, and so my my dad totally led me into um recovery just because he didn't you know enable me. Yeah, and then I got uh roommates that were in recovery. Oh, cool. And so I was like, Whoa, wow, like that's cool. So I I went to my first uh curated little peer recovery group for yourself. My first meeting. Yeah, and that was awesome.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

Your first AA meeting? Yeah, what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_00 34:55

It was Thanksgiving. Really? Uh yeah. Cool. It was Thanksgiving. Where was it? What city? It was in Philly.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Philly? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

So it was awesome. Yeah. Oh, this is great. Uh I could do this. And just to let you know not every meeting's Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_05 35:08

Yeah, you got a good one.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

Yeah, I had a good one. I saw my aunt there. That was really great. Did you know you were gonna see your aunt though? No, no, no, no, no. I mean, her her ex at the time was in recovery too. So she went and and whatnot. And then I saw some other people I didn't know, you know.

SPEAKER_05 35:23

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Recovery.

SPEAKER_05 35:24

Were okay. Were people in your family open about anything that they may have been dealing with? Or is your family like mine and we like to keep stuff inside?

SPEAKER_00 35:31

It's not we're not against it. My mom is probably the only person that's like, tell me everything, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:37

And by the way, that kind of led me to like just tell our people everything. It's like I overshare, you know. She'll still tell me to this day. It's like it went the opposite way for you and my brother. Like really, she's like, you went over-sharing.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Your brother went to not sharing at all.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

You know, so but this just kind of shows you it's like, you know, she her intentions are good, but the result was not what she wanted.

SPEAKER_05 36:01

Yeah. Their intentions are always good. I feel like for the most part, our parents wanted to do the best and make the best decision at the time. The advice they gave us, they were trying to say the right things, and you're just like so.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

I like literally get to date this girl, Devon, that I've known for 16 years. You know, we knew each other in New York. And Devon was like, you know, we saw each other after I got out of all that credit card debt. She saw my journey, she started talking to me, and it was like, wow, it was like love at first sight again. You know, so then we started talking, and she's like, Hey, next time you're up in town, New York, um, let's have dinner. You know, she made the first move.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

So then I followed up and we started to actually like I knew like when I first saw her, I was like, oh my gosh, like, I can't believe I had all these negative thoughts. Like, she's like, she's the one.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

You know, she's sweet, she's powerful, she's like beautiful, like she's she's she's smart, she's articulate, like all the stuff that I I've always wanted in a girl. Yeah, like I was like, yeah, this is it. And then all of a sudden, oh yeah, maybe we should have some wine together. You know, and then that's when it started to like go downhill, our relationship.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Really?

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Because then all of the bad things started to come up late night and whatnot.

SPEAKER_05 37:14

And wait, so had you quit drinking prior or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah, I wasn't drinking for three months before I started. Okay. So, like, like I said, my life got better, started to go back down.

SPEAKER_05 37:25

That's went to some meetings, got comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Went to some meetings. Have you been to like a but I wasn't like acknowledging I had a problem because like I only went to one meeting. That's what it was.

SPEAKER_05 37:36

Okay, gotcha. Went to one meeting, had a bunch of friends that were in AA, and like that was really you know, you're like, I want like I I want what I'm seeing here, and I know I need to do this. You're taking steps. Yep. You're like soft launching yourself into sobriety. It really was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

So I saw what was going on and I was like, oh wow, like, you know, people say this a lot. They're like, once you get a head full of AA, like you can't drink the same. It's absolutely true because I tried with Devon. It ruined our relationship so much. Then finally, I had this experience on December 13th at an Eagles game celebrating with my dad. It was his birthday. And I'll never be invited to an Eagles game again because he said you were so miserable. Uh, you know, it was the night after I was drinking. I was like, I think I'm just done. And I just remember just this experience of like this lightness and like like hope of like, oh no, I'm an alcoholic, I'm never gonna drink again. And I remember calling the guy who introduced me to AA, and I was like, I I'm never gonna drink again. He's like, that's good, come to a meeting. So I started going to meetings consistently. Um, what ends up happening is that I was trying to recover and also be in a relationship at the same time, and that's a in a new relationship. Yeah, that's a very heavy order for an alcoholic in the beginning. Yeah. And we're not married, so it was like, it was really given from advice from my sponsor, like, hey, let her go for a little bit so you can get better.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

I didn't do it, not knowing how to manage my my emotions because I truly believe like recovery, AA, anything is about uh emotional regulation. Yeah. Right. And I didn't know how to do that at all. Um, and so I we went off on each other and we broke up, and it was weird. It was off of a misunderstanding of long story short, she was getting kicked out of her apartment because the landlord was doing some shady things, so he wanted to get rid of her. She had nowhere to go. I didn't like this guy that you know she was newly friends with, so it was a little weird. So she told me she was staying over her girlfriend's place from this guy that I didn't really trust or anything. And then I took it as, oh, you're staying over that guy's place. She's like, I'm going there. But she's like, No, I'm staying over my girlfriend's place. He just so happens to live there and I'm being transparent, telling you this is his place. We broke up over that. But years later, when we reconnected, like, she's like, No, I told you, A, he wasn't even there when I was staying there. It's just his place, and I was staying with my girlfriend. And I was like, Holy cow, like all that over a misunderstanding. She's like, Yeah, you were like really knee deep in your alcoholism. And so I thought it was so weird because it's like the fog hasn't been lifted yet, you know, from recovery. And so it's kind of crazy how we broke up off of that weird misunderstanding.

SPEAKER_05 40:31

Oh my gosh, that's so tough. Was that the first time you had called yourself an alcoholic?

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Yes. Oh, I refuse to call myself an alcoholic, like for a couple reasons. One, it's because I'm Asian, alcoholism doesn't exist. And then two, it's like, I'm so good at it, or was, you know. But then I realized I'm kind of like the high school football quarterback that never made it, saying I was really good, but I wasn't, you know, and I stopped getting better because it was like, hey, and never moved on to college.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

You know, like wasn't really that great, you know, anymore.

SPEAKER_05 41:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

I was probably good then, but I'm not great now.

SPEAKER_05 41:07

Right. And shit kicked off for too long. Yeah. It's like the feeling, like when you had said, like the feeling I got when I was drinking, I just felt awful afterwards. It didn't feel good. I'm kind of like sabotaging relationships. It's like in the beginning, we feel like it fixes all those things.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

And it doesn't it does, it does in my mind, but at the same time, it's like I I'm still jealous of those who can still drink, get loaded, and have great relationships, you know. But that is not me. For some reason, there was something inherently just empty inside of me that I needed to fill.

SPEAKER_05 41:46

This podcast is brought to you by recovery.com. Recovery.com is a place where anyone can find mental health or addiction treatment options specific to them. You can filter by location, price, insurance coverage, therapy type, mental health condition, levels of care, and so much more. Recovery.com is the best place to find mental health or addiction treatment for anyone, anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Well, I was gonna say, finishing up that story with a so Devon really got me launched into recovery, into AA without her knowing because I was like, I would just want to become a better person.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

What was really fascinating about that is like they always say, don't go in it for other someone else, do it for yourself. Well, I really found out I really was doing it for myself because after we broke up, I stayed sober the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

So it was because of a relationship. And at the end of the day, I realized it was really for me.

SPEAKER_05 42:39

We do the things we struggle because we lack that self-worth a lot of times. So it's so hard to walk into a place and be like, I'm doing this for me. Trust me, it was never me that got myself help. It was like, I need to do something so my kids can have like a present mother. Right. Or just like someone who's not crying all the time.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

I'm glad it wasn't for me because I didn't like me at the time.

SPEAKER_05 43:03

Yeah, I would like it's like do something for yourself. I want to kick myself right now. Like that's what I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

I'm gonna bring myself right now to sleep. Like, why would I do this for me? Like, I would do it for her. Yeah, she's actually a worthy person.

SPEAKER_05 43:15

I want to be better, to do this for other people. And then it's like a oh no, regardless of whatever external thing is there. Like, I'm gonna continue to do this thing because I just love how I am now.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

So I actually don't mind it when somebody does it first because I'm like, you probably self-loathe just like I do. Yeah. So do it for somebody else first.

SPEAKER_05 43:35

Whatever gets you there.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

But then eventually you gotta do it for yourself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:38

Again, if something ever happens with that thing, the external thing that you're doing it for that's not yourself, like what do you have to lean back on? Yeah. It has to develop into you at some point. Did you seek out any recovery programs outside of AH for like outpaced?

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Of course, but it wasn't, I wouldn't call it recovery programs. It was more like self help programs. It was like forums and the You know, Tony Robbins events, you know, but he doesn't have an event for alcoholics, you know.

SPEAKER_05 44:04

It's it's like it's his events are for people that were that more like an uplift view to motivate you, but you didn't go to like someone's like, here's some tools to help cope with no no.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

I mean, the closest was maybe psychedelics, but I was a little scared to start dabbling into that. Yeah. So I was like, oh, that seems a little sounds cool, but I'm like, it seems a little unsafe. And so that was the only thing that maybe I would have. I mean, I do remember reading a book about Steve Jobs, and he went to India and did a lot of LSD underneath, like shamans and Indian shamans. And I was like, that sounds good. Good for Steve. I was like, let me do that. Yeah. But thank God I couldn't afford it. You know?

SPEAKER_05 44:45

So yeah, I know what you mean, though. I'm like, I've I've seen, I've learned and stuff. I'm like, that's great. I love that that has helped people. I think I am too afraid. So I learned about your recovery in season one of Bling Empire. I think it was season one. Season two. Season two. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Is that where you had your talk about it season one?

SPEAKER_05 45:02

Okay. So then I guess I ended up re-watching season two last month. Yeah. So it was you had celebrated. I'm trying to think of six years of sobriety. Yeah, yeah. And your sponsor was in there as well. Yeah. I thought that was so cool because it kind of randomly showed up in the show. Um, and then it just went on. And the more learning about it and the support you got, I thought it was great. I thought it was amazing to show that side, not just be like, I'm in recovery and I'm doing what I can. Like showing people what it's really like was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

I wanted to do that the first season. Yeah. The problem was there was nobody in the production team that was sober that could understood why it was important.

SPEAKER_05 45:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

They didn't know what it was.

SPEAKER_05 45:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Um, and then ironically, then the second season, we had some um producers who were sober and they're like, That's awesome. They convinced the showrunner and the team that, like, hey, this is an actual real important message and topic. So I felt very privileged to be able to like actually share that on such a big platform. Yeah. It's weird. It's like that's why season one's very different than season two and three. Well, for many reasons, but it's like that was a huge thing. People really got to know that recovery side.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:13

Um, but we leaned into it more because we couldn't go into my adoption side much because of the pandemic.

SPEAKER_05 46:20

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Uh, we couldn't film in Korea to go search for my birth parents. Yeah, because season one filmed before the pandemic. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 46:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Season two but it didn't come out until 21. 21 in the middle of it.

SPEAKER_05 46:32

Yeah. So you filmed like 2019 and then you have to hold because it's like COVID. How are you supposed to display all these people doing the things and stuff? Especially follow season two.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

Yeah. So 2021, there were still lockdowns. Korea had a mandate of two weeks lockdown if you want to go to Korea. And they're like, you can't do that for production reasons.

SPEAKER_05 46:51

So what was that like stepping into the public eye and being on a show like Bling Empire? And where were you like at in your sobriety journey? So you would have been that like five years or four or five years when you started it?

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Six years sober, six and a half, almost seven when uh when Bling Empire happened. Thank God I was sober.

SPEAKER_05 47:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

But I wasn't like as sober as I could have been because it was in the middle of the pandemic. Like there was only Zoom meetings.

SPEAKER_05 47:14

There's a lot of challenging things happening.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

Yeah, there was only Zoom meetings. You weren't into the real world yet. You weren't integrated into the real real world. And so, like, I think if I would have had it now, it'd be very different. I probably would have gone about it way more soberly. Like, I definitely know that even with my sobriety and thinking I have a good head on my shoulders, like I got really scattered. I mean, like, I was really, I mean, I was like really knee deep into Buddhism, which I'm not anymore. I was knee deep into Chinese astrology, which I'm not anymore. And by the way, all that stuff is like told in, you know, biblical. It's like, don't get into it. It's gonna cause more confusion. And it did. So um, I was confused by the fame, like I was confused about where I'm supposed to be doing with my life, who are the right people. I had no discernment of like who's who's who's trying to use me or who's trying to like actually help me, who's the right person. It's like all this stuff came my way. And by the way, I just spent like a year and a half alone in a room. You know, it's like the lockdown was a real thing. Yeah. I'm telling you, when we first started filming, we all looked like we were still in pandemic mode. I mean, a lot of the footage wasn't used because it's like we had to restart at one point, but it's like, yeah, I'm glad we did because like we got an extra like four months to like just get your head back in life for a little bit. Yeah, we none of us have traveled, none of us have dealt with people yet.

SPEAKER_05 48:41

Like it was really bizarre time, and like and it's very much a show that is not portraying that there's any semblance of like COVID. It's opulence.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

It is they didn't want to, yeah. So anything with face masks on, they were like, we want this world to be escapism for people. Oh, so they don't see COVID. Yeah, this is an escape from COVID. We don't want to remind people about it. So we had a really I had a really hard time dealing with a lot of stuff, you know, the fallout of some friendships that were real, me making bad decisions about the friendships, you know. Cause like, look, I'll admit, I played a part in it. It's like I didn't do my best in my friendships, you know. A lot of them fell apart. Um, some friend relationships grew that weren't supposed to. They're no longer with me anymore, a lot of the friendships. So it's like it was really hard.

SPEAKER_05 49:28

Yeah, I hope you give yourself praise for that though, because that is a huge thing to step into, especially just in general, but especially after COVID. And to have a show like that launch on Netflix and go as well as it did and be as huge as it was. But then you I I can't imagine the the opportunities, the new people coming your way, the new situations, trying to navigate that all at once and trying to make the best decision for everything, just it's never gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

I mean, I didn't give myself much grace. I mean, I was just like any good alcoholic, we're really hard on ourselves. So I was so hard on myself. I still am.

SPEAKER_05 50:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

And I know I still see regrets of like, oh, if I was more in a sober mindset, I would have done things differently. Yeah. But the thing is, though, this is the one thing I say is like I knew I did the best with the decisions and where I was at at the time. I just gained this much more wisdom in such a short period of time. And so, like, I always I don't think it was wasted. It was just more like, wow, that was the biggest challenge. Like my showrunners and Netflix was really nice. Like, they even tried to prep us for it. Like, hey, it's if this hits, we're just gonna give you some crash courses on like how to deal with it.

SPEAKER_05 50:40

That's nice because I've never heard of that.

SPEAKER_00 50:41

But the thing is though, you still there's nothing that can prepare you for it. Really? From all of a sudden like being anonymous to all of a sudden just walking down the street with a face mask on and a hat and sunglasses, and people can still recognize you. What? It was wild.

SPEAKER_05 50:55

I will never, but like I can imagine that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

But no, it was really bizarre. And I was like, oh crap, people might know where I live. I'm like way outside my house. Like all of a sudden, it's like like things like that are just very bizarre. But then also, too, what ends up happening without solid recovery program that I didn't have because I wasn't going to my in-person meetings, I haven't seen my sponsor for a while. Like, you know, you just kind of just live through life like you're living at home. All of a sudden the ego gets really big, you know. You're like, wow, I'm on top of the world, right? Let me have a little bit of fun.

SPEAKER_03 51:25

And kind of untouchable right now, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Or just like, hey, I can I can meet anybody I want, hang on with anybody. So you start doing it, and you're like, the distractions start building up. And so, like, and then you start eating all the food that you never had because everybody wants to treat you. And like all of a sudden, I went from this like literal starving artist to this plump guy that like is unrecognizable at some point. So I'm like, I just ate a lot. People just want to take me out of that. I was like, I don't know if this is gonna last. So I mean, it's like crazy. So it was really difficult to deal with because it's like just the overindulgence of things, the food, the opportunities, access. Like, yeah, it was just like very wild. And like, how did you keep yourself grounded during that? I didn't a lot of times. I tried. Yeah, I really tried. I mean, even my fiance tried, you know, but she was like, to be real, the only thing that really got me back grounded was actually getting back to God. Yeah. Like literally, that was the only thing. Recently, in the last, I'd say eight months, like that's the only grounding thing. So, and I totally, totally believe somebody needs to believe in a higher power and God, something that they believe in.

SPEAKER_05 52:34

There's stuff bigger, there is something bigger than us.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Yeah, yeah. Whatever that is, the creator, which I think we can all agree there's been some creator of all of this, right? Get back into that, and like you can definitely get through it with more grace. Um, I definitely was disconnected at the time.

SPEAKER_05 52:52

So one thing I learned is not it like there's people on your cast that also didn't drink. Maybe not like we're sober, but just like I it's not that I don't, but I won't. That is so cool though, because as a viewer, that wasn't something I was even cognitive of because the pretty glasses have to have alcohol in like that.

SPEAKER_00 53:10

One person drinks, it was Kim. That was it. Wow. Christine drank with her once in a while. It's like nobody else did.

SPEAKER_05 53:16

I don't think it was ever like brought up. I I just thought that was interesting because one thing I was like, wow, that's gotta be really hard to do that, especially when everyone's partying, you're traveling, you're getting to do all these cool opportunities. Then I learned that people weren't drinking. I was like, that's actually awesome. Did how how did that benefit you through that situation?

SPEAKER_00 53:36

I don't think it did actually. Yeah, because I I gave the producers and everybody just that one no-go. It's like, I'm not drinking.

SPEAKER_05 53:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:43

You can't make me hard stop. Sure. We can do a lot of silly stuff. You can make me, yeah, you can make me look like I'm drinking. Yeah. I can act like I'm drunk, like, you know, but I'm not drinking.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

That wasn't hard at all because they really respected that from me. That's awesome. Like, no questions, no if, ands, or buts or pressure. So it was very easy. But what was great was integrating it to have a broader message. So, like, even like having this, like it has a great message.

SPEAKER_05 54:10

How has your understanding of yourself changed since you've been sober?

SPEAKER_00 54:14

Recovery definitely has brought me to such a spiritual spiritual experience. Yeah. But it also brought me back to faith. Like I definitely played along the line of, oh, I'm a spiritual person. It's like, no, actually, I I truly believe I'm a religious person now. Yes. Like, and that to me has been stronger than playing in the in the between. And in that, knowing that it's like, man, I don't just have character defects, I just have a ton of sin.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:43

And by the way, like I'm always needed to repent for it and um forgive myself and forgive others. Absolutely. Um, I think what I really learned about myself is that I have limits.

SPEAKER_05 54:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

Like for a while, especially for Bling, I thought I had no limits.

SPEAKER_05 54:59

You were a no-limit soldier.

SPEAKER_00 55:00

You're just like, um But I I'll tell you where my limb my my no limits was. It wasn't like I can go do this and that. It was more like I can help everybody.

SPEAKER_05 55:10

Yep. Mm-hmm. Saying yes to everything without checking on yourself and is your tank full? Do you even have this in you?

SPEAKER_00 55:16

I was like, I have so much energy, I have so much to give. Let me just give it. I should have been putting it back into myself. Yes. But like I realized, like, no, I only have so much limits. Yeah. And even in recovery, the Bible says take care of yourself first, but also too, like, actually, I don't think it says that in the Bible somewhere. Uh, what I was gonna get to was um, but help the right people. It doesn't say help everybody. Yes, it says help the right people. Like when somebody comes into the rooms of recovery and asks for a sponsor, I know that's the right person. They're asking for help, they're in the right room. I didn't have to force them here, you know. But what ended up happening with me with Bling is I wanted to help everybody. Hey, look, I'm now famous. I can help you.

SPEAKER_05 55:58

Yeah, you see, I know you're gonna be felony.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

Well, it was like, I I know your career is a struggling. Let me help you. I can connect you to any agent and manager. Oh, I did it, spent time. Hey, you need to event me to appear. I'm gonna go there because I know to elevate your event. And by the way, a lot of them are doing well now, you know. Um, help them raise lots of money, but I didn't get anything back.

SPEAKER_01 56:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

But I thought I was just supposed to do that. Yeah. But what I realize is when I go back to even even the Bible says, help the right people. Don't delay on it though. I think what ends up happening, and this is what's happening in my Hollywood space, is we're forgetting, we're so woo-woo spiritual. We need to go back to God a lot more.

SPEAKER_03 56:38

Very performative.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

Yeah, and we need to really go back to God more. There's a lot of people in high positions that could help the right people, but they refuse to. You know, it's like, but it's only for their benefit. Yeah. It's like you should help the right people to help the right people.

SPEAKER_05 56:51

Cause that's passing and you can be successful while doing good and putting good out there and helping people.

SPEAKER_00 56:56

And there's a lot of access and there's a lot of power in Asian Hollywood. And I don't see it being used. I only see it being like they're gonna leverage themselves high salaries and just do fun things, but they're not really helping the right people. Um, and it's just like very sad to see. Yeah. Because like at one point, like I really just was like very naive. And also says in Proverbs not to be naive, but I was like, I could help everybody. So that's what I mean by saying like what I learned about myself was I was very naive. No wonder I got taken advantage of. But I also too was trying to help everybody, but it doesn't say to help everybody, says help the right people. So like I learned a lot in that. And I was like, okay, I have limits and I only want to help the right people now. So that's another reason why I've like kind of like held back and like not gone so publicly out to so many things anymore. Because I realized, no, a lot of these people aren't the right people. The right person is if that same person came into this room right now and said, I saw your podcast, I want to get help and recovery, that's the right person.

SPEAKER_05 57:54

Someone seeking help. Yes, someone who's ready to take it. Our job is not to sit there and convince somebody that their what is happening in their path isn't right for them. It's like your dad, take a picture. Like, did you you responded to the picture you knew something needed to happen?

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Planted the seed.

SPEAKER_05 58:09

Yeah. Yeah. Be the yeah, just helping the right people. I feel like we all overburden ourselves with that. Especially it's just, I feel like that's probably in your nature. You and I know as myself, as a people pleaser, I say yes to things because I want to be that helpful person that people can rely on and go to. But yeah, at times I also have to be like, but take a step back because you have like nothing left in your tank.

SPEAKER_00 58:33

And I have to also look at myself and realize um, just make sure I, if I do give that I truly want to give. Yeah. Like I'm not looking for something back.

SPEAKER_05 58:42

Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Um, what does your daily recovery practice look like now?

SPEAKER_00 58:48

My daily recovery practice really goes with a good night's sleep first. Yes. Like it really does. I think that's so undervalued in recovery that I think if you just get a good night's sleep, it can start helping with everything. Yeah. Because when you drink, when you do nicotine, all that stuff, coffee, even really late night. I'm not saying coffee late.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

He's trying to get me to stop disrupting. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 59:07

I'm just saying coffee in moderation and at the right timing is great. Okay. But I'm just saying, like for me though, like when I have coffee late night, obviously people don't talk about it, but it disrupts everything. Yeah. It does so much bad. It's almost like keeps the brain display. Yeah, it's almost like you're drinking again and like hung over. So it's like, or depression, you know, you could literally solve so much just with really good quality sleep, right? Starts with diet, nutrition, everything, sleeping habits. Um, so that's where I start.

SPEAKER_01 59:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

Um, then I go to a meeting. I try to go once a week in person. Uh, that's my home group. I used to lead it. Yeah. Oh, neat. I used to lead it, but now it's not my turn anymore. Um, but then I try to go to a Zoom meeting at least three or four times a week. Uh, I have been going back to church once in a while. I'm trying to do it more religiously now. Um, I see a pastor for marriage counseling right now. I try to get in touch with my sponsor even through text once a week at least. I have a sponsee. That's what I do. It doesn't take up as much time as it used to. I used to be an addict about it, though. Yeah. It's like, let's go to two meetings a day. I'm gonna spend an hour and a half doing all this stuff to like get myself grounded and better and mentally blah, blah, blah. Best drinker.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:20

No, I'm be the best at AA and recovery.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

I realized, well, that's addictive too. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:24

You're just transferring addictions at that point. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

So I was like, hey, you know, one meeting a week in person is great. Call my sponsor once in a while. It's like, I'm good. It's like, you know, I don't need to be so obsessive. And it actually really helped when I track my time about this. I was like, holy cow, I'm spending three hours a day on this crap. I was like, I need to cut back. So I stopped. I mean, I meditate still, I do a quick prayer, a couple readings, maybe hop on a meeting if I can, make sure my sleep's intact.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:55

Those are good things to do day to day. Yeah. If you feel those anxious feelings coming up, if you're in like a depressive state, what is something you notice about yourself that you do to help yourself get out? And what's something you recognize? Because a lot of times we're like, oh shit, I'm down in that dark place.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:11

There was 10 steps earlier. Well, in the past, I used to, I I I am and still can be an emotional eater. So that's the last frontier for me to do is to really manage my emotional eating. So that's when I know when I'm reaching for the bag of chocolate. Um, although I've been obsessed with getting great sleep lately. So it's been great not having to say, I'm gonna go to sleep. Well, because it's like, no, actually, it's like I every time I have chocolate or candy, I'm like, I have horrible sleep. So I'm like, okay, so that's out of the bag. So eating good has been my obsession now because um sleep is so important. But like I've noticed I will just overindulge in so much food the moment I'm depressed or emotional. Or what I'll do is I'll be reactive. And then that's not helpful either. Like short-tempered or short-tempered, you know, and I realize that that's where I need a lot of God in my life because I'm like, okay, this is not a good reflection of my sobriety. Yeah, this is not me as a person of God, and it's like it's a bad example.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:09

That's me driving on my way to work and home. That's the worst version of myself. That is Shadow Brittany coming out. She needs more Jesus in the car.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

Definitely, definitely. And so that's why I'm like, I need I I noticed that. So what I try to do now is maybe I'll just like mention it to my fiance now or something. I'll maybe write down what's wrong. Like, why am I really being bothered right now? Like, what's really going on? What's really going on? And by the way, am I being, am I being really godly like right now? Yeah. You know, because that's by the way, I don't want to be Kevin like. Because Kevin, like, uh I know people are all about, hey, be your best self, be yourself and be authentic. But I'm like, if my real authenticity came out, I'd be like, I'd be down in a ditch drinking.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:52

Sometimes I'm an asshole. Yeah. Like I need that's not I need to tap into this like self that I might not always be, but I know that this is how I want to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

I want to be the best self.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:03

I want to be a better version of what I was because that wasn't working for me. So it's like, why would I be my authentic self? I want to be the best version of me.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:12

And that can also be an authentic version. It's just a version that's had a lot of work done that knows what the other side can be like.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

Yeah. I think a best version of me is like emotionally regulated.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:23

Yes, same. More even keeled, little things not setting me off. What larger cultural change do you hope to influence through your platform?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:33

The cultural change is very, very specific of I want Asians and Asian Americans in all of Asia to change their viewpoint on sobriety. How so? Asians don't believe in sobriety. You need to drink with other people, it's their life.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:49

But do they believe in alcoholism?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

They don't believe in alcoholism. I mean, yeah. So that's where it's like they think it's just the Western thing made up. But it's like, actually, no, it's destructive.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:58

Oh, the like the Western side's like the indulgence side. Got it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:01

So I think like my thing is like I want to change that culturally so we can actually start to communicate in a healthy way and do business.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:09

Have the conversation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

It's like, hey, look, I don't need to drink with you to do business.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:14

And it's like Oh, would someone find it offended offensive?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

Oh, you can't do business with a lot of Asians if you don't drink with them. But that's what I mean. It's like I like to see a cultural change because it's very detrimental to the young generation. Um, so I hope cultural change can also see like this type of recovery isn't just about fluffy, it's very practical, very hands-on. It's very, yes, it has to do with getting back to God and a higher power, but it's like, I actually truly believe the world needs more of it. I mean, there's been studies showing saying that since religion's been down and people have not been believing in God, that there's been a lot more anxiety, a lot more chaos in the world, depression, all that stuff. And I just think it's a better world with it. Um, so I hope that is what the cultural change is. We go back to our faith.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

And I say faiths because I'm not saying mine's the only one. Right. Go back to faith.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:08

Believing in something more important than yourself. Um, so imagine there's someone out there struggling right now. What is something you want them to know?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:17

I don't have to imagine it. There's so many people struggling out there.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:20

Out there struggling right now?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

There's so many people struggling right now. I've changed my viewpoint on this. I think they have to struggle. Like, I know it sounds really weird, but my struggle, yeah, I had to struggle to get to where I am because I don't know what the temperature or their their height of struggle will be until they change. But I know eventually they'll change. So my thing is if you're struggling and you're not changing, struggle more. Because you'll change.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:47

Yeah, you're gonna change at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

I can't tell you when that'll be. Mine wasn't homeless with a needle in my arm, thank God, or doing heroin. It wasn't that. But if you seriously want to change, Accept the struggle, the feeling of it. Doesn't mean go out and purposely struggle. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:05

Kevin said, I gotta go.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

No, just accept the struggle. Yeah. And you might struggle more and be okay with that. But eventually you're gonna hit that.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:12

Yeah. Don't sit there in the struggle and but woe is me. There's nothing I can't do about this. There's so much. So much. So much. I want to know a couple things or misconceptions about sobriety that you had.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:23

Well, misconception of sobriety is uh smoking weed isn't sober. Um, other thing is people think you're gonna lose your personality. I actually gained a personality. My fiance now actually told me she didn't know I talked so much.

unknown 1:06:38

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

She's like, I thought you were quiet. And I thought I had to be the one talking all the time. It's like you don't shut up.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:44

She's like, there's a new person.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:45

I was like, yeah, it's because I have so much to say now.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:47

Oh, I love that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:48

So I gained a personality. Um, three, uh, people want to be around you more. Yeah. People don't want to be around you less. So actually, and then four, um, I, and this is very Asian to me. So this is for the Asians. You'll actually become wealthier. I'm not even talking about wealth as in like your family, and that's great, too. But you'll actually financially even be wealthier.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:09

Um be holistically wealthier, like just in every aspect of your life.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:13

Clarity, everything. You know, you'll be smarter, you'll be more grounded, everything. So there's so much about sobriety that there's so many benefits that people don't tap into. Yeah. Like I think that is the number one longevity tool. Like people are obsessed with about longevity now. Uh-huh. Documentaries about it and everything. And performance. Yeah. Well, sobriety gave that to me. Like, I thought I had no time to do anything before I was sober. Now I have so much time to do everything. Right. Because I'm sober. Uh, and also, too, with um longevity, it's like it's the number one longevity tool.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:46

Yeah. Is there anything else uh that about recovery that you wanted to share that you think is important?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

I want other people who are sober out there to not be shamed about it or to think shame is so big. Or think they have to stay anonymous. Like my job as somebody in AA is to not break other people's anonymity.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

But I choose to break my own so I can hopefully inspire somebody or share that. Like, no, I mean, I live this crazy life. Like, I can still take my shirt off and jump in a pool and like go to a club and dance like crazy. Like, if I want to, being sober, like you can do all of that.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:23

Yes. I remember you talking about it's it's uh sober, sexy, and cool. Like, and I was like, oh, I love that because I'm bringing back crazy, sexy, cool. Like, I want, like, you know, we're mentally taken care of. But like, I want people to know, like, seeing a therapist, going to your doctor, taking care of your mental well-being is sexy and it's cool. Being sober, um, having a clear mind with things, it's sexy and it's cool. You don't have to be some like like it, you don't have to be sober. You don't have to be seeking mental clarity and wellness and then sit by yourself in a room for the rest of your life. Like you are, you've gained this whole nother level of yourself, so you can share that with the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:02

By the way, you can if you want. You can. If you want to sit in a room with a cat all day, I don't know. Plenty of people who are happy about that, do it. But it's like you can do whatever makes you happy now.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:11

Yeah. Um, so what has recovery given you?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:14

Recovery's given me second, third, fourth, fifth chances at everything in life, whether it's relationships, career, finance, marriage, hopefully, soon, you know. Well, I know soon. And family and uh friends. So it's given me all of that.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:32

That's beautiful. Kevin, thank you so much for joining us. I'm so honored to have you here. It's been a great conversation. Can you tell everybody your socials where they can find you and follow you?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:43

Yeah, so uh I'm not that active on TikTok, but you can still find me there. But mostly Instagram, um, threads, and I'm starting up uh more YouTube stuff. So it's Kevin.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:54

Nice, wonderful. And thank you all for joining us. Have a wonderful rest of your day, and we'll see you next time.