Jon Gustin | 'The Tired Dad' on Finding Sobriety After Cocaine, Meth, & Alcohol Abuse

Can vulnerable parenting heal a lifetime of hidden substance use? Jon Gustin shares his raw journey from teenage substance abuse to long-term sobriety.

In this deeply moving episode of Recoverycast, hosts Brittany Baynard and Sam Roberts sit down with Jon Gustin, the creator behind The Tired Dad. Jon opens up about his early experimentation with prescription stimulants at age 13, experiencing severe alcohol poisoning in high school, and navigating a dark path involving cocaine, meth, and prescription pill misuse. He reflects on the painful loss of close friends to overdose and suicide, the heavy weight of survivor's guilt, and how his coping mechanisms evolved into a cycle of hidden drinking and misusing his wife’s postpartum medication. Jon's ultimate turning point came after a severe mental breakdown on Father's Day driven by the combination of Kratom and alcohol, leading him to choose true sobriety for himself and his family. 

Find mental health and addiction treatment near you: https://recovery.com/

Jon discusses his transformation through therapy, breathwork, and cold plunging, highlighting how he replaced extreme dependencies with healthy mindfulness practices. Now over three years sober, Jon shares how breaking the stigma around paternal emotional distance allowed him to build an authentic, emotionally intelligent household. He passes on powerful insights from his book, The Tired Dad, reminding parents that showing vulnerability gives our children permission to be human. 

Don't forget to subscribe, leave a comment with your thoughts, and share this inspiring episode with someone who needs to hear it today!

⏱️ Chapters:

00:00 – Intro

06:32 – Welcome Jon Gustin

07:54 – Childhood, Foster Siblings, & Emotional Control

09:37 – Early Substance Use: From Prescription Stimulants to Alcohol Poisoning

14:02 – The Dark Path of Cocaine, Meth, & Losing Friends

29:06 – Trading Dependencies: Fitness Obsession & Hidden Drinking

33:37 – Navigating Postpartum Stress & Stealing Prescription Pills

40:40 – Kratom Misuse, Father's Day Breakdown, & Rock Bottom

44:54 – Finding Sobriety: Cold Plunging, Therapy, & Real Healing

50:00 – Emotional Intelligence in Marriage & Vulnerable Parenting

❓ Questions the Video Answers:

1. What are the early warning signs of teenage polysubstance misuse?
2. How can childhood foster family experiences affect adult attachment and emotional control?
3. Why do people in recovery sometimes swap substance dependencies for extreme fitness behaviors?
4. What are the hidden dangers of abusing over-the-counter Kratom concentrates?
5. How does hidden alcohol misuse isolate a parent from early childhood dynamics?
6. What is survivor's guilt, and how do people cope with losing childhood friends to overdose?
7. How can emotional vulnerability strengthen a marriage during active recovery?
8. What are the physical and mental withdrawal symptoms of a Kratom dependency?
9. How can fathers break generational cycles of emotional distance?
10. Why is apologizing directly to your children crucial for healthy emotional development?
11. How can cold plunging and mindfulness breathwork aid in long-term sobriety maintenance?
12. What does it mean to hit an emotional rock bottom in parenthood and pivot toward recovery?

#AddictionRecovery #SobrietyStories #VulnerableParenting

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Warnings are tough for any appearance. But when you throw like drugs and alcohol on top of that, like that's exhausting. It's okay if we're tired.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Like, do it. Badge of honor. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

These bags are badges of honor.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Badges of honor. Yeah. Put some ice on those things. You're good.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

I'm gonna go to the makeup counter and be like, Do you have any badge of honor cream? Yeah. They're getting really full. Hi everyone, and welcome to today's episode of Recovery Cast. I'm Brittany Bainard.

SPEAKER_03 0:32

And I'm Sam Roberts, and we are so excited for you to hear this episode with the tired dad, John Gustin.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

This was a great one and so appropriate because uh let's see here. We filmed on a Monday, and I was I was a tired mom that Monday.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

Yeah, I was a tired dad.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

That day.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

So then we got to talk to them.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Yeah, it was perfect. And I'm not gonna lie, me and Brittany try very hard to be young. We are young, young and you know, we love we love having our like uh uh Gen Z influencers on the podcast or whatever. And we're like, oh, totally, totally, totally. Absolutely. But then when we can talk to somebody and be like, I'm so tired. My toddler is trying to kill me. It's just refreshing, you know. They almost succeeded. Yeah. So uh Brittany, I in passing overheard a crazy story about you being bowled over by your husband recently or something. Would you mind just uh repeating the story for me and for the listeners?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

So um it's like 2:30 in the morning, and uh my four-year-old son gets into bed with us, and there's like no room. It's king size bed, but the way he sleeps. You know, if you can't have a kid, you know. Um, so I get up and I'm gonna go sleep in a different room across the hall. And um he's like, Where are you going? I was like, Oh, into a different bed. He goes, Oh, my bed? I was like, no, but also like, where are you right now, my friend? Um, so I like I'm in that bed. It's maybe like a minute later, and I hear the uh uh and I I start to hear like the coughs of a child about to let let it loose, get sick, if you know what I mean. So I, being the amazing mom that I am, get up, start booking it back to my room, dead sprint, just where's my baby? I gotta save him. Same bowl. Uh-huh. Yeah. Um, and it's pitch black in the hallway. And at that same time, my husband has our child in his hands, like holding him out like this, running towards the hallway bathroom. I don't know why he didn't do the bathroom in our room. So as he's like simba him, simbing him to the hallway, boom, smash right into me. Like I'm heels to Jesus in a dark hallway, hit the wall. And I just hear him go, oh my God. And he has to continue running and like getting our child to the bathroom before that poor baby just starts blowing chunks. And I just like continued to lay there. And then I like kind of like army crawled it to the bathroom. He's like, Are you okay? And I'm like, that hurt. And like later, yeah, later that day, he's like messaged me. He's like, I can't believe that we like plowed through you in the night.

SPEAKER_03 3:05

Straight Scooby-Doo hallway.

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah. Yeah. Um crap. But yeah, that was at 2 30 in the morning, and I was tired because I was tired during filming because I was so shooketh after that. Yeah. Just big old head.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

Before the Tuesday shoot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

That's why I was so dang tired.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

And then you did two podcasts in one day.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

I'm just that girl. Um I'm that mom. Yeah. She's that mom. But poor kid. And then bless my husband, he stayed home with him because we were shooting podcasts. And um, but yeah, it was just it was a wild night. I was real, real, real tired. Um, so it was really great getting to talk to the tired mom and dad. Yeah. Because we can relate. Yeah, we can relate.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

And it's just so fun. Yeah, we're just like having butlers and just kids in general is so, so fun. And so fun. Like, people have not jokingly, like, but people have told me, like, I feel like you were like made to be a dad. I'm like, I'm not gonna lie, I think you're right. And specifically a girl dad. I would agree. Um, and it's just so fun and it's exhausting.

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:03

And that is why I love John and Jess's content.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Oh, absolutely. And uh, we're really lucky to get his book. He brought it in, The Tired Dad. Um, go get it where all books are sold. He was great. The conversation was amazing. Just getting to talk to him. Oh, it's so great getting to meet people like where they're at now, and them just explaining like what it is that got them here, what he experienced going through recovery, having a newborn himself, struggling and really stepping up and being like, I don't want, I don't want this for myself. I don't want this for my family. I want different and seeing how different it all is now. Right. Uh it's incredible. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

And I just it didn't even occur to me, like as you were saying that, I'm like, oh my gosh, we've been talking for five minutes or whatever now, and we haven't even brought up his addiction recovery. But kind of that's the point. Yeah. Like, you don't stop drinking to stop drinking. Like you start your recovery journey to be a dad. Like the point of the story is that he gets to be a dad and father and just fully realized human.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

And not just like uh a parent, but also like in his marriage. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

It's amazing. Yeah. Okay, really quick, Brittany. Uh, we should get into the episode, but I just super, super fast want to read three comments.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Oh, we can take time for comments.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Yeah, our listeners are amazing and uh they listen uh every week and they don't skip the intro housekeeping section. Never if you wanted to use the timestamps below. But all these comments came from uh Maggie Eats's episode. Hey Maggie. Um first one comes from Lily. First of all, I love this podcast and especially this episode. Second of all, I'm so proud of Maggie and everything that she has over uh come. Uh I watch Maggie every single day and I love her content so much. Thank you, Lily. Uh, what a great podcast guest. I watch every day, and her story is so inspiring. I hope this podcast excels. That's from Maylin. Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Me too. I hope we had the same hopes.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Yes, that the podcast excels uh and agreed that Maggie is amazing. Share it. Finally, uh, this uh comes from Mayra. Uh, love watching Maggie Eats. Uh, but now I discovered this podcast and I'm so glad I did.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Oh, we're so happy you did too. And we really appreciate you guys taking the time to write these comments. It means a lot. Um, it really, really does. And it helps other people find this podcast and hopefully find that same joy and hope that you get out of hearing people's recovery stories.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

Yep, amazing.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

So with that, here's our episode. Hi, everyone, and welcome to today's episode of Recovery Cast. I'm Brittany Bainard, and today we are joined by John Gustin. Thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Yes, uh super excited to get into this conversation. I love getting to talk with other parents, especially about their journeys. As parents, we always want to give our kids better, more than what we had. Also, just kind of taking it back a bit. I want to hear about like the childhood that you had and how you grew up.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah, my it was pretty good. Um, I'm the youngest of three. I have an older brother and an older sister that are seven and eight years older than me. So I was the baby baby. The baby. Yeah. And uh that came with its perks and also I want to be older. Yeah. You know. But um, my older sister was there for me a lot. She was definitely kind of a mother figure to me. And so I remember a lot of memories just tagging along with her friends, boyfriends, and just I thought my brother was the coolest thing ever. So it was kind of typical like that. My mom and dad, they were married for about 24 years before they got divorced when I was 13. But up until that, we only moved once and we we took in foster children.

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Oh, cool. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

So that was didn't really know what was going on at the time with that. But till this day, I have one that we foster child that we almost adopted. Yeah. And I've kept in touch with her. Oh, that's so cool. Well, yeah, she was adopted by a family in my town.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

That's awesome. So you got to stay close and connected. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

But it was interesting to have foster children coming in and out. It was kind of it was very emotional for me.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Like up until I was eight or nine, I think we had them.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

So you can build those relationships with people that yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

And I didn't know what fostering meant. I just was like, okay, I have a new brother.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Biggest sleepover ever. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

And it's so much fun. And then they have to go, they have to go away now.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

You know?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

I had a lot of step families, which meant like for two years I would have like this family, and then the divorce happened, and then then there'd be another family. So like I get that, like, I had like siblings at one point that aren't the siblings that I have now, and then it changed. So yeah, it is, it is different. It's exciting, but it is different. You learn about relationships in a different way at a really young age. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Definitely. I think it was maybe a little hard on me as a kid to have something and then have it taken away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

No control over it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Kind of messed with maybe abandonment or something. Yeah. Looking back on it.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

Yeah. Another big part of your story along with fatherhood is sobriety and your journey to that. Can you tell us about the first time you had experience or experimented with alcohol or drugs? How old were you and what was that situation?

SPEAKER_00 9:38

So when I was 13 years old, I was in seventh grade. I think it was like standard testing, right? And my friend said, Hey, I have this medication that makes you focus at or all.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

We grew up at the same time. Everybody had it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Everybody had it, right? Little blue pill. And I was like, sure, I'll try it. The second I felt that drug, I knew there was something different in me. Like I was like, I want to feel like this forever.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

And I'm like, how can I do that? It immediately starts wheels started turning. How can I get more? How can I do that? At the time I didn't know that that's like kind of how drug addiction starts. You you know, we had dare, right? I grew up with dare, and it's dare for me was kind of like, hmm, curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Like filling in some blanks I wasn't even aware of. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

You you might die if you do this. And I'm like, really? Why? Like that seems brilliant. Yeah. Willing to test those waters.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

So it was, I always had this kind of, I don't know what you call it, rebellious type behavior from an early age when it came to substances. And it started with the Adderall. And then it was like, okay, what's the next thing? You know, weed. So I did that. And I'm like, well, that's that's different. That's kind of scary. Like, where am I? And at such a young looking back, I was so young, like going through puberty and do and starting substances. Yeah. And what I realized is that it helped me at the time. I thought, oh, this this makes all my problems go away. Like I can talk to girls now without worrying about what I'm saying. I can concentrate more in school. I have more of like a drive. And like with marijuana, it was just an escape.

SPEAKER_02 11:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

It just kind of numbed everything. And then my parents went through a divorce, which was like completely blindsided by. So I'm like, you know what? In that rebellious behavior, my parents can't even keep their marriage together. I'm gonna do what I want. Yeah. And from then on, it was just chaos. And in in ninth grade, I was at a school dance and I had like half a bottle of Bacardi spiced rum in five minutes. I just downed it because it was like my first time getting drunk. So I wasn't like, oh, this tastes nasty. I was just like pounded it. I'm like 125 pounds in ninth grade. Yeah. Five minutes, like the whole bottle's gone with me and a couple other friends. I completely black out. I get alcohol poisoning, fire trucks, ambulance. I don't remember at the school dance. So I get to the school dance and I black out. I remember bits and pieces, but I remember falling over and then kind of coming to, and I'm in the principal's office.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Oh dang, that's an awful place.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

And I go, I need to get out of here. So I like try to run and I just face plant into the door. And it was chaos. Yeah. Throwing up all over myself. Fire truck, ambulance, my dad has to come pick me up. I don't remember any of it. I just wake up the next day. I'm like, what happened? And my dad's like, you do you remember anything? I'm like, no. He's like, you almost like I we almost went to the emergency room. And that was my first time getting drunk. Wow. Was that? And you would think, okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

That'd scare the crap out of you, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Two weeks later.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

And from then on, it was just using substances all the time. Like just to escape uh smoking weed seven, eight times a day through high school, before school, during, after, uh drinking every weekend I can, you know, sneaking alcohol. Just there was no end to it. Like you would be so hung over all these you get alcohol poisoning, you think, okay, stop. And I started realizing I'm just I I'm wired differently.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

And this is just I I'll never have a healthy relationship with it. But that took decades to really attack. And I did cocaine for the first time when I was 17 years old. And that was just like the Adderall experience.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

I'm pretty sure if I had more money, I would have been completely addicted to cocaine at 17 because I was like, okay, this is it. That was the feeling. Yeah. I I love this and I I want to do it all the time. And not thinking about any consequences that come with it. And then I smoked meth for the first time when I was 19. And that was dark. That was when it was starting to get really dark. Um, I was finding myself at these houses that I've only seen in movies. And I'm like, whoa. The random guy on the couch, the random person in the corner. I'm like, what what am I doing with my life? You know? But, you know, once that drug hit, it's like, oh, this is normal. Yeah. You know, the guy carving stuff into the wall is normal.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Start justifying stuff.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yeah, like, oh, what is it drawn over there? You know? That's beautiful. Yeah. And it's just wacko stuff started happening. And that was the first time a drug, I think, changed my brain when I was even off of it.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Really? How so?

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Like, I was in bed one night and I saw like the shadow of a dog.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

And you weren't high at the time?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

No. Yeah. Like completely hallucinating. And just these wild dreams that would wake me up in a cold sweat in the middle of the night. I'm going, oh no, am I like frying my brain?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

And I, you know, I grew up with, you know, the punk rock, the Nirvana, and all that grunge music and the punk music. And it was just kind of live fast, die young.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

And that was the mentality.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

It's literally shirts that said that everywhere. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

It was like the 27 Club. I'm like, well, I'm 19. That's eight more years. I'm good. I'm good with that.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

You know, not thinking like, what do I want to be when I grow up? Like, do I want to be a dad? Do I want to be a husband? I'm just thinking, right now, I want to party. Yeah. I want to go hard. I don't want to deal with what's going on at home. I don't want to deal with my insecurities. Yeah. I don't want to deal with my emotions. Nothing. I just want to escape, get high. And I felt like when I did those stimulants, like the coke and the meth, I was like, no, this is good for me because when you're on that stuff, you think you know everything. Like you think, oh very enlightened. Oh my gosh. I'm like boom, boom, boom. I get so much done, and I'm just on top of it, and I'm not thinking about anything negative. But then it's the come down, which is the worst thing. Like a cocaine come down is horrible. A meth come down is ten times worse than that. That it lasts days. It like you're hallucinating when you're dead sober. You're like dumb. You can't think. You don't know where you are. Like, it's horrible. And my friend that I was doing it with, he went down a really dark path with it. And I got out, I got off the train. I was like, I'm gonna die. And you know, I don't want it. So I got off and I stopped hanging out with him, and he ended up going down a really dark path, and that led to heroin use for him. And I'll never forget, I didn't see him for months, and I hung out with him again, and I'm like, dude, I'm clean, I'm good. He's like, Well, I don't do meth anymore, but I've been smoking black tar heroin. And I'm like, addict brain, boom, switches on, and I go, I'll try it. Yeah, I'll go, I'll I'll try it. That's one thing I've never tried. I'll do it. I'll just do it once. You know, everything's I'll do it once. And uh he was like, No. He's like, I'm not gonna let you do it. And so I didn't, I never did. And he went down a horrible path and was in and out of jail, and I saw him one more time after that or a few more times, and he looked really rough, and then I got a call that he uh took his life.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

So um it kinda like hit me that man, if I kept going down that path, where where would I have ended up? You know, and it just I don't know what he was going through. I it was it he just I think went into that dark hole. Yeah. That you know, the drugs bring you up and they you live in this world of euphoria and then it's like hell. Like it just brings you down to this like horribly dark place that we just sometimes I think you go so far down that it's it's hard to climb out of.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Oh my gosh. That's so difficult to have to because that's your friend. You see them in a different light too. When people are like, Yeah, an addict dies, it's like that was my friend and I knew him, and I knew the type of person that he was on off it. I know that person's soul, and to know that it got that dark and they weren't able to get out is just a terrible thing. When you were or meeting back up with him when he said he had switched to the black tar heroin and you told him that you were clean, were you just clean from the substances that you would use together? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah, I mean, alcohol, I never stopped that until three and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Yeah. So during those like late teens, early twenties, is there are there people around you in your family or friends that are noticing and are just like, what's going on? Does anyone like intervene or are you real good at hiding stuff?

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Really good at hiding stuff. Like I was a master at it. There are things that I can uh my my dad was very kind of naive to it. Uh he didn't see the warning sides. He he would drug test me and stuff before I was 18, and that's how he would find out. And I would constantly fail drug tests, and then I would kind of manipulate them, um, and I caught good at that. But other than that, he didn't really know. My my stepmom actually, I remember she still tells this story. I like came home one night and she knew I was on some sort of amphetamine because of the way I was acting, and she's been around people like that. So she's like, I think you might want to drug test him and uh see what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Check for everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

Yeah, and sure enough, he drug tested me and it was positive for cocaine. So but other than that, there weren't, you know, I surrounded myself with people that wouldn't make me feel guilty about it. Yeah. You know, so it was the wrong crowd. I was surrounding myself. There were times when I would flow into a normal crowd of just partying kids that were like, You're crazy, and like you should slow down.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

You know, there there's a few times even within my circle, it w it it got really bad in my early 20s, especially after 21, that like even within my circle, they were like, Hey, like, maybe don't go so hard tonight. It's Monday. Let's just chill out. Like, we don't need to go like running red lights and absolutely insanity on a Monday night for no reason. So, like, let's just have a few beers tonight or something. Like, yeah, let's stick with alcohol tonight, please. Uh, because it it got to a point where the first drink that I had would end up in to some sort of drug.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Just kept going and trying to seek like the next thing continuously.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

And then um there was prescription pills, like when do those come in the picture? Um about the same time. I I would say about this and end of high school.

SPEAKER_02 21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

So I'm like 18, maybe the first time I had Vicadin or something. Um, I remember I got my wisdom teeth out and I got Vicodin. And I'm like, more, you know, trying to get, you know, just trying to look for anything and being a ma master manipulator and always finding stuff. Just I'm like, man, if I could just take that work ethic to like business, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

Walk in elsewhere.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

I I used all my good qualities for for bad things. Yeah, prescription pills, any any time we could get a hold of them. There they were just around. I don't even remember how I would get a bunch of Vicodin pills.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

I feel like people used to just leave their prescriptions in the closet a lot.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah, it it's I don't know. Like drug dealers are you can find you can find whatever you're looking for if you really try really hard. And so dangerous nowadays with that stuff. I didn't have to deal with that, the whole fentanyl stuff. I I didn't, we never worried about it being late. I mean, we worried about like ecstasy being laced with um, you know, meth or something. I'm like, oh, cool, great. Um, or other stuff, or it just not being cut very pure, but never did I hear about it being like cut with something that would kill you, like like it is today.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

We talked about this with my daughter. It was just I experimented, made some bad choices, and I know that experimenting's like a natural thing, and there's things that are just going to present themselves to you in situations, but like you can't do that with this. You could literally die the first time. It's not the same as it used to be. Like, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

No, it's yeah, it's dangerous out there. I it's I I'm like it's makes me worried for the for this generation because I'm like, you can't just can't just do it like we did it. No, and uh yeah, I I I remember XC, Molly came onto the scene, and that was a whole nother party thing to add into everything else. And of course I went down that road. My other friend, when I was, I think it was right after high school, I was 18 years old, and uh he was such a good kid and it had so much going for him. He was so good at everything he did, he was charismatic, and uh it just I thought he was so cool. And I remember I I worked at a pizza joint, and then next door was like this uh uh Asian restaurant, and he was uh delivering for them, and I was working at the pizza place. I remember coming out and he was like delivering, and I'm like, what? And he's like, Yeah, I just got a job here. I was like, Cool, dude, that's awesome. He's like, Yeah, we'll be like right next to each other and we can hang out after work. I'm like, cool. And then that was the last time I saw him, and he he overdosed on oxycotton.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

He took like oxycotton and drank, and it wasn't even like that much. It was like a few beers and like this oxycotton pill, and it was just like a mellow party he was at, and he never woke up. Oh wow, and he was in his in his bed. And just a just a minor detail, like a weird detail about that, is that he just showed us his new tattoo, and he it um his tattoo said, God forgive me. And when the paramedics found him in his bed, he was laying face down with his shirt off, and it just said, God forgive me. Oh my god. And I just remember hearing that story and being like, Man, this is so dark. Yep, this is so dark. And again, you would think, Okay, I've lost two friends. He uh he passed away before my other friend that I spoke about a few years before that. And you would think that moment, that moment rattled our friend group. It rattled us. Uh like my best friend at the time, that was his childhood friend from kindergarten. Like best friends grew up together, and we are still kids. We're 18 years old, and it just rattled us. It was like death. Death can happen to us. Like the absolute end. Yeah. Like we we are fragile. Like there are consequences to this. And you would think in our stupid brains at the time that we would at least be woken up by that and be like, we're done. And we weren't. Right. And some of the craziest years were after that. I used to always think about m um that friend and our friends that we lost. And and there were other stories about people that I grew up with, but that I wasn't super close to, but just stories of these overdoses or kids taking their life. Um, and it just I I look back on it and I go, how what were you thinking? And it it's I wasn't thinking, I was an addict. Yeah. And I just didn't know to the extent because I never wanted to admit, okay, I'm an addict.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

I'm an alcoholic. I'm just a kid that's partying and having a good time. I'm only young once.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

Yeah. I'm supposed to do this.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah, I'm supposed to do this. And um I am so fortunate that I made it out of that. I I don't I never got a DUI. I never there was definitely times when how did I wake up?

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

You know, there was times when I took an oxycotton pill and had way more than my friend had uh in beers. I had 18 beers and woke up extremely sick. I was sick the whole next day, and I'm going, well, that how did that happen? Yeah. I mean, how did I get out of that?

SPEAKER_02 27:42

How did I wake up and he did it?

SPEAKER_00 27:44

So many times I'm like laying there at 6 a.m. heart racing, going, This is it, this is it, and I just I was spared. I I I I don't there's this kind of even till this day, almost like a survivor's guilt of looking back on my friends that never got to experience life after that. We were I mean, I look at how much life I lived back then, how much I've lived now. Man, there's some of the best years, decades were upon us if we just cleaned it up. And you know, it you know, my friends never got to experience the love of their life or marriage or kids, children, or success of any sort. And I'm just like, why me? You know, like why did I survive it all? And they didn't, and I did more than they did, you know? So it just doesn't it doesn't seem fair, it doesn't seem right, but um it's yeah, it's it's it's sometimes hard to compartmentalize that. That was my youth. And um and then I I started to clean up my act with the hardcore drugs. So I I start focusing on okay, I need to, you know, I need to clean it up. And how old are you at this time? 23 or so. I got into fitness. I have a saying where like addicts, you have to do extreme things that are good for you or extreme things that are bad for you. It's gotta hurt a little. It's got like you look at addicts, they're like, okay, I'm gonna be an ultra marathoner. Yeah, yeah. You know, yeah, I'm gonna run 500 miles. You're like, whoa, maybe just a mile. Nope, not enough. Yeah. It's like extreme. Yep. And till this day, I'm just I'm extreme. My wife will tell you that anything I do, I'm like, whoosh, all in. Good for me or bad for me. So I got into fitness because that that made me feel good. It made me feel, gave me confidence back that, okay, I'm doing I'm taking care of my body now. So I'm like, okay, I I also want to spread the joy to other people. I want to help other people out. I have this survivor's guilt, so I need to like make up, yeah, make up for the guilt that I have. So I'm gonna help people now. So I became a personal trainer and just dove into that at the gym 14 hours a day, working out three, four times a day, wanting to be. I'm like, I'm gonna be a bodybuilder. I'm going all in, you know? And you know, that that also has, I don't know, diminishing returns. It, it uh you can go too much with anything, right? Yeah. And so I felt I felt good about that season of my life, but alcohol always was around, even in the shadows. So, okay, it wasn't drinking every night now. It wasn't uh, but you know, if we went out, I would definitely be getting drunk, you know, every weekend and just like, okay, as long as I can go to work the next day and like stay, you know, it was again master manipulator of planning or trying, yeah, yeah. Of keeping it at bay, of not being looked at as the crazy drunk guy, although sometimes it just happens. But also with alcohol, you can mix into the crowd because it's so socially acceptable.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

This whole place is built on drinking alcohol, like most places that everybody's getting drunk for the game.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Like I but no one's counting my drinks. Yeah, you know, I've had double what this guy's had, but he doesn't know that. Yeah. So you kind of just mix in. Yep. So it was always on the outskirts, and um, I met my wife, and I I remember telling her when uh just we were being honest with each other, because with my wife, when I met her, I knew she was the one. It was like like it is that cliche. It's pretty obvious. Like it's it's that, you know, the cliche, oh love at first sight. Like, no, I really wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

And you know, we've been married 13 years. Oh love 14 years? About to be 14 years. So, like, yeah, no, it was love at first sight. So we were being honest with each other, and I was telling her about my drug use. Like, when somebody doesn't know addiction, they just don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

You know, if you're what I call a normie, where you can actually, has there been a time when you've had only one drink and stopped?

SPEAKER_02 32:25

This podcast is brought to you by recovery.com. Recovery.com is a place where anyone can find mental health or addiction treatment options specific to them. You can filter by location, price, insurance, coverage, therapy type, mental health condition, levels of care, and so much more. Recovery.com is the best place to find mental health or addiction treatment for anyone, anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

And I'm like, I don't know if I remember one time that ever happened in my life where I had one drink and stopped. I would have no drinks if I was gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Like I can control the first drink, and then after the first drink, I'm not making the decision anymore. That's how I've always been. You know, I kind of told her about it, but you know, we would drink together, and she just didn't think about it that I was really prone to really overdoing it. So it was kind of there, and you know, we would drink together, and it was, you know, normal-ish. And then it gradually started to get worse. And there was a moment when we had our first child, our daughter, and my wife had a C-section. And what do they give her C-sections? You give them Vicodin. Um, and at the time they gave her a lot of Vicodin. And her being the terrible drug addict she is and the normie she is, didn't like how it made her feel.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Yeah. Make you feel nauseous.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Yeah, made her feel nauseous. I realized at that time I have our firstborn daughter, and all these emotions start flooding in. All of a sudden, you're a dad now. You are responsible for this life. Your wife is looking to you now to be the dad, and this is a whole new chapter, a season that I've never felt before, and no one really prepared me for it. Yeah. Like that there was no advice from my family, or they're just like, it everybody just celebrates you having a child. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

They're like, oh my gosh, more like the concept, but not the actual like lived experience of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

You're you had a child. Well, my wife also had postpartum really bad. Oh, yeah, your wife might get a little sad, but whatever. You know, like she'll get over it. Just, but I'm like, well, that that this feels like a lot more than just she's really sad. She's like a different person that I don't know. And that's kind of scary. So I did what I always do, what I always did my whole life. I started drinking more and I started sneaking her pain pills because master manipulator, master hider could, okay, she's not taking them. There's like 25 pills. If I let's see, calculate, if I take nine, she's really not gonna know. You know, she's not keeping count, nor is she, she trusts me too, and I'm taking advantage of that. And that's why where addiction and substances, you you can feel so guilty in sobriety, going, gosh, I was such a piece of crap. Like I took advantage of people that trusted me. There was one problem, and it was every time I drank. Because when I was sober, I'm thinking, okay, how can I be there for my wife? And like, I'm a good person. And then I drink and I become this selfish. It's all about me and me not feeling the feelings that I need to feel. And it this emotional immaturity that I have and all these insecurities that I had when I was 13 that I just numbed. I just put a band-aid over everything. They never went away. It's almost like I grew up, but didn't. Like I grew up in a way, but there was a part of me, there was a layer of me that never grew up because I put a band-aid over it, which is substances and alcohol. I was sneaking uh her pain pills for really I dragged it on, I don't know, maybe a couple years. And I started drinking, it was the first time I'm 30 years old at this point. It was probably the first time that I drank that much since I was 22, 21. So back in my like peak.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

And I'm like, okay, but again, lying to myself and and believing all the lies. You're not an alcoholic. You're just you just you you became a father. You're you, you know, there's accomplishments that are your accomplishment in your life. And I was never an angry drunk. Uh so like she never, there was never uh conversations where she's like, this is scary or anything like that, because she didn't really even know. Like she just thought, oh, he's having a glass of wine. She doesn't know I'm also taking shots in the garage and sneaking white claws here and there. She's not keeping track. Again, she trusts me and I'm taking advantage of it. The only like red flag with me when I got really drunk is I would just shut down. Yeah. I would just not talk or something. She would be like, How many drinks have you had? You know, that's the only time, but you know, I I was still a manipulator with it all. And I remember it was might have been 2020, you know. That's when it shot up.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Bad times, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Yeah. That was when I started drinking like in the daytime. And that was the first time in like 10 years that I did that. But now I have my daughter and she's very young at the time. I also have my son now. So my son is born in 2019. I get really drunk one night, and for some reason my attic brain says, take a pill. So I got we're having like people over at our house or something, and it was fun. And I'm like, the only thing that would make this more fun is getting more fucked up, you know? And so I I I don't know, I might have taken more than one or something, but I remember kind of blacking out and waking up the next morning and feeling awful, like almost having like a panic attack.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

My heart's racing. I'm like, I feel like still drunk. And I remember getting sick and kind of like going into the garage and trying not to wake anybody up and kind of, you know, trying to orient yourself. Almost like have this vertigo feeling. And I'm like, my vision's blurred. I'm like, oh my God, what's happening? Am I dying? And it really scared me. And of course, my wife has no idea what's going on. And and I I I'm not expressing it. I'm hiding it. And she's just like, oh, he's just hung over. But I go, man, that was dangerous. I'm going, okay, this is this is not what I envisioned for my life. This isn't punk rock.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

This is not this is not rock and roll.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

This is not. This is like, I feel like a loser. I feel like a horrible dad. I feel like a horrible husband. This is this is awful. And that's what kind of sparked I might need to get sober. I started to try to do it on my own and just not really expressed to my wife that I really wanted to get sober, but she kind of felt that okay, I she could see that I wanted to.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

You were like conscious that there needs to be some type of adjustment made.

SPEAKER_00 39:50

Yes. And there there was a moment when we went to a concert and I got super hammered. Don't know why. But it it just was one of those nights it just I just went overboard with it, and like I hit a weed pin, and that made me like barely made it home in the Uber. It was a a weekday, it was a mess. And again, it was another moment like you're not driving this car anymore. And then I'm like, you know, you are so fortunate to even be here and have this life with your family. Don't mess this up, too. Like, don't think that you have to mess it up to make up for that survivor's guilt or or make up for all the bad things that you did before. Like, you need to be grateful that you're here and you need to figure your shit out. It was years of trying to get sober, not getting sober. Okay, I'm good now. I I you know, I'm I'm better mentally. Yeah. You know, I had I had a mental breakdown on Father's Day. I just went crazy. And it it was my first real mental breakdown.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

And what happened that day?

SPEAKER_00 41:11

So uh another substance that I thought was good for me, that was marketed towards people like me, that was I didn't think was that bad until I abused it like everything, was uh Kratom. Have you heard of that?

SPEAKER_02 41:29

I've heard of it.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Okay. So it's basically an opiate.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

Yeah, they sell it at the gas station.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

It does the same opiate receptors, and now they're catching on to it because they're seeing they've they've concentrated it so strong that it's now becoming like heroin.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

Yeah, I've seen a lot of creators now that are pharmacists take it and do like analysis on what's actually in this kratom that's being sold at like a store that you can just walk into and buy.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

But there's all these documentaries that you know it's helped them get off alcohol and it's helped them become sober, it helped with pain management to get off painkillers. It's extremely addicting. So I started to do Kratom and I'm like, whoa, this is this feels great. This feels like a drug. And but it's natural, it's a it's a plant, it helps with pain. Well, I didn't know that there was uh it was so addictive. I thought it was like coffee because that's how it's like strong coffee. So I did a ton of that and I stopped one day, runny nose, like shaking, upset stomach, can't sleep, got restless legs, and I'm going, Am I having withdrawals? Uh-huh. Like from opiates? Wow. Again, my wife doesn't know I'm going through all of this because I'm, you know, oh yeah, I'm doing this natural tea or or something, you know. And then to deal with the withdrawals, I started drinking. And I think the combination mental breakdown. It was almost like a weird psychosis to where I thought my wife was against me or she was attacking me. Hard to explain. I don't really know what was happening. I just I I was having these kind of suicidal i ideologies in my head, like I don't want to be here anymore, and I'm kind of a burden to my family. I'm this it was weird. So um the the last day that I drank was January 1st, 2023. I was going to do dry January. I was I was like, all right, I'm doing dry January. I'm I'm stripping it, stripping it down. My wife's birthday is on New Year's Eve.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

So we had a present for her. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

Well, we had a party at our house. So but on January 1st, I was gonna start dry January. And we had some leftover alcohol and there was like a half a bottle of Patron. I'm like, it's getting we put the kids to bed, and I'm like, dry January, dry January. I drank half of that bottle of tequila. Don't know why. Woke up super hungover the next day. And I remember I went to go pick up um our dog, our family dog that was at the the boarding place. And I was driving home, and I'm like, you're done. I'm done. How many times are you not gonna be controlling this car anymore? Something bad's gonna happen. Like you are just I mean, you're playing Russian roulette. Like your kids are gonna grow up and they're gonna start noticing. Right now, you have a moment where they're young enough to where they're not gonna remember you drinking ever if you start today. And that's my sober date is January January 2nd, 2023. That's awesome. We are three and a half years into it. And there's so much. That first year was hard.

SPEAKER_02 45:12

I want to hear about it because you had tried multiple times. You'd given yourself like 30 days a couple times. What what was it about this that made it stick? And then like how did you do that?

SPEAKER_00 45:24

What made it stick is I I was I was rock bottom emotionally. I was just rock bottom, and I felt like it was do or die at this moment. My motivation was my family. Yep. But I said, okay, be careful with that only being your motivation. Again, you need to strip down what is wrong with you. Like you clearly are an addict, you have an addictive personality, but you're doing these substances not just because it's a party, because the party's long gone. The party's over. Those days are over. This is not about the party anymore. This is about running from something. I was going to therapy. Um, I was really saying, okay, you need to like focus on something else. For that month of January, I think it was January to like March, I did cold plunging.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

So I did a cold plunge for like almost a hundred days straight. Dang. Yeah. And we live in uh Tennessee, so it was really cold. I just put this cow trough outside and just let the weather do what it did. I was out there in the snow. Wow. Like extreme. The commitment. Extreme. My wife's like, you go crazy. I had to strip it all down in the mind. And with the breath work, the meditation, the therapy, the cold plunging, the working out. I'm like, I'm going to just hit this head on. Yep. And look at myself in the mirror and have everything just coming right back at me in that mirror and saying, okay, let's go. You know? And so much of my childhood stuff came up. Stuff that I didn't even realize was bothering me. Things about my personality, things about my anxieties, everything. And that was another thing. I go, do I have like anxiety? Like, have I always had anxiety? Yeah. Probably. Because every time, you know, you, you know, I had flight anxiety, and every time I flew, I had alcohol, and then it would get better. So I'm like, oh, you've used something for all your things, but all these things make up who you are.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

And you need to the only way you can get better at those things is to actually figure them out and work on them. Yeah. And sometimes that means you gotta feel uncomfortable. Yep. You you just gotta feel uncomfortable. It's not about feeling comfortable all the time, which is what I've always ran to. Yeah. Like that first year I was very overwhelmed because intrusive thoughts were coming in. I'm going, something's gonna happen to my kids. Yep. Like all this stuff, like these anxieties, my heart's racing at night. Oh my gosh. And instead of running to the substances, I would do the breath work, I would do the cold plunging, and I'm like, oh, a light went off. Oh, this takes effort. Yeah. Yeah. You're not used to the effort. That's the that's the thing. You're not used to going, okay, you're having anxiety right now. Let's figure out why. And then let's get through it. And then as you get through it, you're stacking a win. You're almost it's like working out. You're kind of breaking down that muscle, and then it's gonna regrow, grow better. Yeah, and you're gonna get stronger. Your joints are gonna get stronger. That's what was happening to my mind. And after that first year, it started to get better, and it gets better every year. And now being three and a half years sober, um, I'm not gonna say it's just always great. Yeah, you know, still happens. Life still happens, and that's the beauty of life is that life is happening and you're experiencing these episodes, and you're getting through them and you feel so good about yourself when you get through them. Instead of numbing them and feeling worse after, you feel better after, like, hey, you know, I got on that plane. Yeah. I got on that plane, and I didn't get on last year. That's a win. It's a huge win. And I didn't do it with anything but my mind and my uh breath. And that gives you this confidence that I never had before.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Yeah, you're like conquering things. Exactly. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Yeah, and then you get addicted to that. Because you gotta get addicted to something. I mean, we can't just do it normal. Yeah. No. You have to be addicted. Yeah. Um, because that's who I am. And also being, you know, accepting who I am.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Yep. What has sobriety done for your marriage?

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Oh, I've changed completely with how I express myself. I don't hold anything back now. Yeah. I'm very expressive now. I thought that's what a man is. I thought that's what a husband is, is you have it all figured out, even if you have nothing figured out, you just act like you have it figured out. And if anything's bothering you, just hold it in or push it up.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

You don't have to cue anyone else in on anything going on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:42

And it it my dad wasn't very expressive. So none of the men that I grew up with in my life were expressive. They were all like, just figure it out. And kind of you're you're a financial provider, and that's it. And I'm like, I'm too emotional to just be a financial provider. I'm more than that.

SPEAKER_02 51:01

Seems like the least rewarding because it's like if I didn't have them here, I'd still have to provide for myself.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

Yeah, it's kind of like par for the course. I'm more comfortable in my skin now. I I know who I am, I know the floodgates are open. I know how to, I'm so much more emotionally intelligent.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

Uh when it comes to everything. So when I'm better emotionally and I'm figuring out who I am, then so does my wife. And then that just grows from there.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

Yeah. Uh you stated before that the house you grew up in was a bit cold and emotionless. Now that you're the tired dad, what does your household look like? And in what ways have you been able to show up as a dad that you couldn't have or weren't doing before?

SPEAKER_00 51:48

With sobriety and my children, I am much more present, especially the mornings. I think that's the biggest change that I see in myself is the mornings were such a grind sometimes. Foggy mind. You know, I I mentioned that story where I woke up in a panic. There was multiple mornings like that. It was just kind of like this robotic thing of getting the kids breakfast and turning on a show and just kind of drinking water, and just I wasn't enjoying the mornings. And, you know, the mornings before school, they're just chaos and the stress, my stress levels were through the roof on the mornings. And it just always felt I didn't want to wake up in the morning. Like it was just chaos. And now it's I can wake up before the kids, I can have some alone time to myself. Uh, me and my wife could have some coffee by ourselves. We talk with our kids. I'm paying attention more. I again it when parenting gets stressful, that's when, you know, I'd have a couple drinks while I cook dinner to kind of calm myself down. So I was always that crutch, and now I'm just in the moment. Right. Whether it's chaos or not. I'm in it. I remember it. I'm present.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Mornings are tough for any parent. But when you throw like drugs and alcohol on top of that, like that's exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

Yeah, I don't, I don't know. Tired dad is hungover dad at this point in the first couple years. It was it was like hungover dad.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

Mornings are real, real rough.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

So it's like, why am I doing this?

SPEAKER_02 53:27

Uh-huh. And you've taken all of this experience and you've come out with a book, The Tired Dad. I love the message of if you're tired, it's not because you're a bad parent, and a lot of times we need to hear that. Like, why am I so tired? Why do I feel like I'm failing at everything? It's because you're trying.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

Um and you're trying really hard.

SPEAKER_02 53:46

Yeah. And I I think that's awesome. Where can it's out already? So where can people pick up this book? Anywhere books are sold.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

Anywhere books are sold. Wonderful. Amazon, Barnes and Noble.

SPEAKER_02 53:57

Yeah. What is a what's the message in there that you really enjoy sharing with people?

SPEAKER_00 54:02

There's so it's a hundred reflections. So there's a hundred m different messages. The second my daughter um came into the world, I started writing poems. I started writing journal entries. I started writing things that she said to me when my son was born, just just all my thoughts. So it really the overall message is that we're not perfect. We're gonna mess up. I always say keep showing up, and it's that one day at a time, it's that, okay, you failed, do better.

SPEAKER_02 54:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Okay, you yelled at your kids, apologize. You know, there are some kids, some grown kids, some adults that still haven't got an apology from their parents, and we're still looking for that apology. Would that apology mean something even if it came years and years later? Of course. The apology is always accepted. So if you mess up and you apologize the next day or you apologize uh soon after, like you're winning. Yeah. You're you're apologizing. So it's not just about not messing up, you're gonna mess up, but how do you come back from that? Yeah. You know, and that's what's gonna that's what really is gonna shape our kids and the next generation is being honest. And I and I have a passage in there that about how you're not Superman as a dad. We always want to be the superhero, and at a certain age our kids do think we're superheroes, but they get older, and I think it's important for them to see that we're not superheroes, we're human. Because it it it lets them it gives them permission to be human.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

Right. The person they look up to the most also is gonna make mistakes. So that means it's okay when I make a mistake, and I can tell that person too.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Yes, and you're safe with that person. So it's important for uh, you know, dads want to be this hardened superhero that just has it all figured out. And we don't. Yeah, nobody does. And especially when it comes to parenting, like, come on, it is hard. It's like the hardest thing you you've done. And we're all learning as we go, and we can take the advice, we can do all this stuff, but in the moment, sometimes it's just the moment and and we mess it up, or or maybe we don't. But it's you you gotta be, you know, it's it's okay to show them that you're vulnerable and to be vulnerable because then that gives them uh permission to be vulnerable. And that that's what we're creating in our house, is just like, you know, my daughter will say, Hey mom, dad seems stressed out today. Like she'll pick up on it, and then I won't say, No, I'm not. Yeah, you know, I'll say, Yes, I am, and this is why. And I'm sorry if I was if I was snappy with you, daddy's doing this, this, and this. She's like, Okay, dad, I get it. And then she'll do the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

So she'll have a big and she'll go, Dad, I just I just had a rough day. Yes. And I say, Oh, really? Well, what happened? Well, so-and-so was mean to me, or or this and that, and they express themselves. So that's how what we're creating, and that's what I want to encourage dads. We still have a long way to go. I I feel I think we're going in the right direction. I do too. But just the stigma that dads are just financial providers, that they have it all figured out. No one cares to hear about their sob story. It's a pity party. You're weak if you are vulnerable, all that is just a lie. And that's not how we heal ourselves. It's not how we raise the next generation of good human beings.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:45

Just imagine that kind of world. Yeah. You know, imagine all these emotional, intelligent men out there. Imagine just imagine that.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

You know, imagine that. Imagine that. He said it obviously.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

Imagine that. And that's what we need more than ever. And I just try to stay optimistic with it. And I'm doing my part. And that's what I want to encourage also, parents, moms, dads, you have so much power as a parent. You are raising the next generation. I don't care if you have one kid, two kids, seven kids. You're still collectively, millions of parents out there. If we collectively put this kind of effort and embrace the tiredness and embrace the chaos and view it as your most important role and just validate them and encourage them, that's how you change the world. Yep. So as a parent, you can change the world. Don't think it's do this. Yeah. It's okay if we're tired. Like do it. Badge of honor. Let's go. These bags are badges of honor. Badges of honor. Yeah. Put some ice on those things. You're good.

SPEAKER_02 58:52

I'm gonna go to the makeup counter and be like, Do you have any badge of honor cream? Yeah. They're getting really spoiled. Oh my gosh, this has been awesome. I could I yeah, thank you so much for coming. Please tell people what your handles are. Insta, TikTok, where can they find you and follow you?

SPEAKER_00 59:06

The tired dad. Yes. If you look up the tired dad, his tired dad everywhere. Um me and my wife have a podcast, the tired dad and tired mom podcast. We get real on marriage and parenting. We leave it, leave it all out on the table.

SPEAKER_02 59:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:21

The book, the tired dad. It's the tired dad.

SPEAKER_02 59:25

Yeah. Moms, dads, grab it.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Yeah, we're all in this together. The tired dad is you. You're the tired dad. You're the tired mom. I'm a tired dad right now.

SPEAKER_02 59:34

Um, well, again, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you all for joining us. We will catch you on the next episode of Recovery Cast.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

Thank you so much.

unknown 59:42

Thank you.