Untangling Culture and Doctrine

 In this conversation, we’re joined by guest Lauriann for a thoughtful discussion on untangling culture and doctrine and how easily the two can become blended in everyday church life. She shares personal experiences from growing up in the Church, teaching Gospel Doctrine, and living in different places that helped her recognize what is truly eternal versus what is cultural. Together, we explore how that clarity can bring more compassion, less judgment, and a more Christ-centered way of viewing parenting, church experiences, and one another. 

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Transcript

Fair Use & Disclaimer
This podcast may include brief quotes from outside sources used for discussion, education, and commentary under fair use. These are shared respectfully, with context and attribution, and are not used for commercial gain. The views expressed are our own and based on personal experiences. We are not officially affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but we strive to share thoughtful, respectful, and faith-centered conversations. 

Transcript

Host: Welcome to Sisters: Latter-day Voices. I’m Clare

Host: And I’m Candice.

Host: Today we have a guest, Lauriann. Thank you for coming.

Lauriann: You’re welcome. I’m excited.

Host: Let me introduce you. Lauriann has a degree in history and creative writing. She currently teaches history online at Southern New Hampshire University. She and her husband have five kids, all named after dead presidents. I’m going to have to ask a question about that. She also believes teaching Sunday School is the best calling in the Church, and she will die on that hill. Lauriann brings a lot of oldest daughter energy to the function. She’s obsessed with reading and will probably give you a book recommendation against your will.

Host: Quick question, why not living presidents?

Lauriann: I feel like if they’re dead, there’s less of a chance that something crazy could happen and then we’d think, wow, we should not have named our kid after that president. If they’re dead, everything’s already out there. It’s a done deal.

Host: That’s smart. A cautionary tale for people naming kids after living people.

Lauriann: Exactly.

Host: And Sunday School is the best calling?

Lauriann: Yes. Adult Sunday School, youth Sunday School, maybe any Sunday School. You don’t really have meetings, you’re not usually working in a presidency, and you kind of get to handle everything yourself. It’s rewarding, and I really enjoy it.

Host: You’re really good at it. Just from visiting your ward, I could tell you’re a natural. Although I feel like I would never want that calling. That would be my nightmare.

Lauriann: I think that’s why I got released so quickly after I taught the adults. They were like, yeah, go back to the youth.

Host: Very happy in Primary.

Lauriann: It’s not for everyone, but I love it.

Host: We forgot to mention you’ve started watercoloring.

Lauriann: Yes. I’ve been doing it for about a year now. I never thought I was artistic, probably still am not, but it’s been really fun as an adult to learn how to do something new and persevere even when some of it doesn’t look good. It’s good for someone my age to keep learning.

Host: I think you’re really good. And I love hearing, “It’s time for art.” I also always ask you for book recommendations.

Lauriann: Sometimes you don’t even have to ask. I’ll just give them.

Host: I’m going to need a list afterward because I always want book recommendations.

Host: This is a total sidetrack, but one of my favorite things you’ve ever told me was about your eyesight. Before corrective surgery, you were so worried about being kidnapped because you wouldn’t be able to see.

Lauriann: Maybe not my biggest fear, but yes. I was super nearsighted, and being stuck without contacts or glasses would have been terrible. So I got LASIK and see great now. If I ever am kidnapped, that’s one less thing to worry about.

Host: Exactly.

Host: Alright, a couple getting-to-know-you questions so people know where you’re at right now. What does a typical day look like for you?

Lauriann: Like we said in the intro, I have five kids and I’m married. I get the kids off to school in the morning. Two of my oldest are in college, so they’re not there in the mornings, which is great. Highly recommend. Now I’m down to three at home.

Then I usually go for a hike or a walk, which is the extent of my exercise.

Host: A dinky walk, because your husband invites you to Strava and the walking goal is impossible every month.

Lauriann: It is impossible. I don’t know what’s wrong with your family. He does way more than I do. But I justify it because I can listen to an audiobook or podcast, so that helps.

Then I do some work. I teach history, so usually grading or participating in discussion boards. It’s a good day if I can read, watercolor, or even do a puzzle. I have very cool hobbies for someone who is basically eighty-five.

Then afternoons are taking kids to sports, piano, or friends’ houses. One of my favorite things as a parent is reading to my kids at night. We’re usually working through a chapter book together, and that’s always fun.

Host: Nice. Is there a season of life that shaped you most or changed the way you see faith?

Lauriann: Yes. I grew up in the Church. I’m the oldest of six kids, and I grew up in Boise. My parents were both members, so I always went to church, did seminary, did everything. But there were little things where I wondered, why do we do it this way?

I don’t know that I recognized spiritual experiences back then. I went to Southern Virginia University, which isn’t officially owned by the Church but has standards similar to BYU. I went to institute there, but I never felt like I had a testimony. I didn’t know what it felt like to feel the Holy Ghost.

I remember praying about where to go to college and expecting Heavenly Father to just give me an answer. Nothing happened. So I just picked a school.

Later, in my twenties, after I got married and had kids, I still felt unsure if I had a testimony. While I was in graduate school, my family moved back to Boise. I was attending Boise State, my husband was in school, we had two kids, and I got called to be the Gospel Doctrine teacher.

I was like, are you kidding me? We were both busy, I didn’t feel qualified, and I was definitely not a scriptorian. This was back when you taught every single week, so I was teaching an hour lesson every week to a class full of former bishops and really smart people. I felt like a fraud.

But as I worked through the scriptures every week and prepared lessons, I realized I did have a testimony. I started to understand how the Holy Ghost communicated with me. It laid a foundation I don’t think I’d had before. I love to teach, so having the opportunity to share the gospel was probably exactly what I needed.

Host: Nice. You’re a natural teacher, so I think it’s cool that you discovered that early on.

Lauriann: Yeah. I definitely think Heavenly Father knows who we are, what we need, and when we need it. Everything came together in a way that was exactly what I needed to finally feel confident in my testimony.

Host: Today we’re talking about doctrine versus culture. Have you had experiences that prepared you for this conversation?

Lauriann: I think so. Like I said, I struggled with the Church a little bit off and on in my teen years and early twenties. What I started to realize while teaching Gospel Doctrine was that there is a culture of the Church, especially if you grew up in the United States and in church communities. There are all these cultural aspects, and then there is actual doctrine.

As I continued teaching and studying gospel principles, it became easier to see where culture wasn’t supporting what I was learning, or where culture just didn’t line up with the gospel. Once I saw that divide, I realized many of the things I struggled with were more cultural than doctrinal.

Host: I think that’s so important, because it’s easy to lump everything together and assume it’s all the same. But some things are doctrine, and some things are just people’s opinions or traditions. Realizing that difference was huge for me too. It helped me see things more clearly.

When did you first realize some things you grew up with were cultural rather than doctrine?

Lauriann: I don’t have any huge horror stories, but there were things I look back on now and think, okay, that was cultural and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

One example was in Young Women’s. You’re so excited when you turn twelve and get to go. But then you start getting lessons about modesty. At Mutual, one of the rules for a while was no shorts. They didn’t want to deal with judging length, so it was just zero shorts allowed. If you showed up in shorts, you had to go home and change.

We lived in Boise, and it could be over one hundred degrees. We’d be playing softball in July at seven o’clock at night and it was still blazing hot. So little things like that made me think, really? This doesn’t make sense.

As I studied the gospel more as an adult, I realized when we put up all these little fences, we can end up pushing people out. My biggest takeaway from the gospel is that Jesus wants people to feel loved, accepted, and welcomed. If you’re sending someone home because they wore shorts, that’s a missed opportunity to bring them in.

Host: I think about how often Jesus reached out to people others thought were unworthy. That feels like a parallel. Youth especially could be going through so much. Even if someone shows up in short shorts, wouldn’t it be better to just love her? Maybe eventually she’ll make different choices, maybe not, but why focus on that instead of helping her feel seen and loved?

Lauriann: Exactly. The goal is for people to feel included. That doesn’t mean you have to change your own standards or what your family does. But on a ward or stake level, those kinds of things can create barriers for people who are trying to show up. And we never know someone’s background. Showing up might be the hardest thing they’ve ever done.

Host: Mhm.

Lauriann: Another experience I had was when I mentioned I went to Southern Virginia University, which was an LDS school, and still is. It’s in this tiny town in Virginia. That was the first time I had lived outside of Boise and been around a lot of members of the Church who didn’t grow up in the same cultural background I did.

It was really eye-opening because I think you can get stuck in your family environment or your ward environment and assume everyone lives the gospel the same way. At SVU, I started to see how differently people observed things.

One example was the Sabbath. We lived in this one-hundred-year-old hotel that had been turned into dorms, built during the Victorian era, so it was a funny little setting. You’d walk down the hall on Sunday and see people watching Disney movies because that was what their families allowed on Sundays.

In my family, at one point we decided we just weren’t going to watch TV on Sundays, except for The Sound of Music or Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.

Host: I’m dying because my daughter would be thrilled. She’s obsessed with Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. I watched it recently and thought, oh no... this does not hold up.

Host: Darren thinks it’s terrible.

Host: It does not pass the test of time.

Lauriann: It really doesn’t. I have no idea why those were the two approved movies in our family, but the music is fun.

So more often than not, we just didn’t watch TV at all on Sundays. Then I’d go to school and people would talk about the Super Bowl and all these things, and I had barely even seen the Super Bowl until after I was married. I survived. I’m fine. Probably not something I missed out on.

But at school I’d also see people go to church and then go out to lunch with friends. Some people would get up and go for a run on Sunday morning, which in my family would have been like, no, we don’t exercise on Sundays.

So I’m seeing all these good people, all choosing to be in the Church, all living differently. That helped me realize these little rules are often personal or family decisions, not universal doctrine.

Even now in our family, we’ve come up with our own compromise for Sabbath observance. My kids are on screens all week, so one rule I’ve made is no screens for the kids on Sunday. I try not to be on mine either. But my husband works all week and loves sports, so he’s watching football, baseball, or golf. If the kids want to watch TV, they can sit with dad on the couch. Otherwise, we’re not doing screens.

That’s just what works for our family. There’s the principle of keeping the Sabbath day holy, and then there’s the family decision of how we try to live that principle. It doesn’t mean everyone else should do the same thing.

That’s where I started to see you can make decisions for your own family while still honoring gospel principles.

Host: That reminds me of the book Educated, where she shows up at BYU and realizes not everyone was raised the way she was. It really is good to get outside your own bubble and see, okay, this is how one family does it, this is how another family does it. It’s personal. It’s cultural. It’s not doctrine.

I’ve mentioned before how easy it is to mix those up. Why do you think doctrine and culture become so intertwined?

Lauriann: Okay, well, you invited a historian, so you get what you get.

Looking at Church history, one thing culture has done really well is create unity. If everyone kind of adheres to the same culture, that can be very unifying.

If you look at early Church history, you have this small group of religious people who keep getting pushed out of communities. Their doctrines made them feel alienated from the people around them. Then they move to Utah, where they’re the only Anglo-Americans there at the time. To survive, they start building their own culture.

They had left places like the East Coast, the Midwest, England, Norway, all these different places. So to function together, they built a shared identity.

Church also took up their whole week in ways that probably feel foreign now. They had Mutual during the week, Primary during the week, Sunday School during the week. They were doing everything together in largely LDS communities. Naturally, a culture grows out of that.

And there’s a lot of good in that. Culture gives identity, belonging, and unity. Those are the best parts of culture.

But then you also get the negative side, where people think, this is the right way to live, and start judging others who live the same principle differently.

I think the push from Church leadership now is toward a gospel-centered culture, not an American culture or even an old-school LDS culture. A culture built on principles where people feel welcome. I hope that means leaving behind some things people think of as “Mormon culture.”

So that’s why I think culture gets tied into doctrine.

Host: I like how you brought it back to the beginning. You can see why it happened and where it came from, and now maybe it’s time to fine tune it.

Lauriann: Definitely.

Here’s your book recommendation. I was reading The Gales of November, which is about the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald in 1975 on the Great Lakes.

What struck me was how much they talked about sailor culture, something I know nothing about. They explained how the culture of sailors contributed to the disaster.

There was a massive storm, once-in-a-lifetime type conditions. You can’t control that part. But sailor culture at the time said load your boat as heavy as possible because the more you haul, the more money you make. So the ship was overloaded.

Another part of the culture was go as fast as you can, because faster means more money. Again, profit.

Another part was that if something was going wrong and you were the captain, you didn’t necessarily tell everyone.

Host: Right, because you don’t want people to think you don’t know what you’re doing.

Lauriann: Exactly. So all these unhealthy cultural traits contributed to disaster, and no one survived.

But on the positive side, even during the storm, other boats went out because another part of sailor culture was no sailor left behind. They wanted to rescue survivors if they could.

So culture can hurt people, but it can also help people. If we build a positive culture that unites us, then we can help people feel the Savior’s love and bring them back into the boat.

Host: I love that analogy. That’s such a good way to think about it. If it’s based in love, that should be the source.

Moving on, I want to talk about what’s eternal versus what’s inherited. How do we tell the difference between what is eternal and unchanging versus what is local or generational?

I honestly feel like younger generations are getting it a little better.

Host: Getting what better?

Host: Culture versus doctrine. Maybe they’re less judgmental and less caught up in little things.

We were talking with our brother at lunch and our parents were telling stories about people criticizing tiny things, like someone telling my mom she should play the organ differently because it was too loud or not good enough. She’s like, I’m trying my best here.

Or people critiquing young men because they didn’t put their hand behind their back or they wore the wrong shoes. Just little nitpicky things instead of focusing on what really matters.

But it’s hard because no one thinks they’re the problem. I feel like Church leaders have given a lot of messages lately about being loving and less judgmental, but the people who most need to hear it don’t internalize it.

How do you deal with that in a ward? If one or two people are super opinionated and feel like it’s their duty to tell everyone else how to do things, how do you handle it?

I remember one woman who constantly complained about how people weren’t doing things the way she thought they should. It caused real problems because leaders started doubting themselves and feeling like they weren’t doing enough, when really it was just one person being loud. It’s sad that one person can create so much discouragement.

How do you show that person love while also saying, please stop judging everyone?

Lauriann: I think it’s hard because we tend to sort ourselves into generations. Something I tell my kids all the time is, you’re welcome, I’m giving you a better church experience at your age than I think I had.

We have to remember a lot of people grew up with cultural expectations that younger people don’t have anymore. They had decades of hearing certain messages.

I remember once a woman came to visit teach me, back when it was still visiting teaching. She was fully dressed in Sunday best, nylons and everything, and she basically told me if you go visiting teaching, it’s a rule that you wear nylons.

And I’m sitting there in the early 2000s thinking... no, that is not a rule.

But when I looked at her, I realized she was a good person. She honestly believed that. In her mind, that was respect for me and respect for Jesus Christ.

The church she grew up in was different than the church I grew up in. And the church in 2026 is different than the church in 2016.

We talk a lot about continuity, but the continuity is usually doctrine. The things that shift are often culture.

I used to be impatient with people like that, but now I try to ask, how were they raised? What was their family culture? What was church culture when they were young?

I think about women in previous generations who were told their most important role was being a wife and mother. They may have delayed education or careers because they believed that was best for their families.

When I was younger, I judged that. I thought, wow, all they want is to be a mom and wife? That sounds awful.

Now I understand many of them probably did want that, but they were also shaped by a culture that strongly emphasized it. So I try to have more compassion.

It’s hard not to judge people when we don’t understand them. But culture evolves, and bringing everyone along with it, regardless of age or background, is one of our challenges.

Now, if someone is genuinely mean? I’ll say something. I have stepped in before.

Sometimes I see women feel like every activity has to have perfect food, decorations, linen tablecloths, all of that. Those can feel like cultural expectations. And I’ll just say, no one cares. People are happy to be together. Delegate if you need to.

I’ll ask, is this really going to invite the Spirit? He does not need linen tablecloths. He needs people to feel welcome. He needs peace.

So yes, if I need to, I will shut it down.

Host: I think one of your biggest points is understanding. That kind of answers my question.

If you understand where someone is coming from, it changes things. Like the woman with the nylons, she wasn’t trying to be awful. She was acting out what she believed was respectful.

And if I had a situation again, like with someone criticizing a young man, I’d want to say, hey, this young man came to church today despite what’s going on at home. He showed up. He chose to pass the sacrament. Let’s not critique the way he’s standing. Let’s appreciate what he is doing.

Lauriann: Yeah, I think if we look in the New Testament a lot, and you look at who’s criticizing the Savior, it’s the Pharisees and the Sadducees. They’re constantly upset because they had made all of these little rules to live the gospel the way they thought it should be lived.

It probably started off based on doctrine, but pretty soon the rules they created became more important than the actual doctrine. So they see the Savior going about His ministry, doing things that violate their rules and cultural expectations.

I think they had lost sight of what the doctrine actually was. Jesus Christ’s job was to come save souls. That’s why He was here. So if that meant healing someone on the Sabbath, which they heavily criticized Him for, or talking to a woman caught in sin, then He was going to do that because the individual person mattered far more than their rules.

If you look at the people He was most critical of during His earthly ministry, it was the people who only cared about the rules and cultural expectations. They were expecting one thing, He was not it, and they missed the mark.

I think that’s the saddest part. They had all of this energy meant to point them toward the Savior, and instead it made them not even recognize Him when He was right there. They couldn’t understand Him. They couldn’t feel the love.

And if we do those same kinds of things, I think we prevent other people from feeling the love of the Savior when we worry too much about what someone’s wearing, what their job is, or what their kids are doing on a Friday night. That’s when we miss the mark and start heading into Pharisee territory.

Host: Yeah, that’s a great point. How have you seen church culture vary depending on where someone lives? You touched on that with college, but have you seen it in other ways?

Lauriann: Yeah. I spent most of my time growing up in Boise. My husband and I lived in Seattle for a couple of years, and I lived in Virginia for several years during college. It was refreshing to see different wards and how people live the gospel.

One thing I think people appreciate is that if you go to sacrament meeting almost anywhere in the world, it feels familiar. If things are functioning the way they should, people are welcoming, and there’s a universal connection there.

But there are local differences too. I mentioned Southern Virginia University. It’s in a tiny town called Buena Vista, which is not how it looks, but that’s how you say it. It’s this old factory town with a population of about six thousand.

Before it became an LDS school, the campus had been a girls’ finishing school. It sat on top of a hill, and at one time the townspeople, who were factory workers, weren’t even allowed on campus. They were seen as beneath the kind of women being educated there.

Even though the school changed hands in the 1990s, there was still some lingering tension between the town and the college.

There was already a ward in Buena Vista before the school became LDS. One day, after I was married and in a family ward, one of the professors gave a Sunday School lesson and kind of called us all out. He said we had started referring to anyone in town who wasn’t associated with the college as “townies.”

At the time, I didn’t think much of it. It didn’t sound offensive to me. But he explained the history and pointed out that when we label people as “other,” we push them out of the fold. That really stayed with me.

Now that I’m back in Boise, I notice similar things. Boise is growing fast, traffic is worse, housing prices are up, and people complain a lot about people moving in. You hear, “Oh, the Californians this,” or “the Californians that.”

And I think... Californian in Boise is just townie in Virginia. It’s the same instinct to other people.

Every time I hear that, a little part of me dies inside, because I think maybe they came here because they thought it would be a better place for their family. Or maybe this is someone who walked into our ward looking for the Savior, and I pushed them away because I didn’t like where they came from, or the hymn they picked, or how they did something.

Being in different places helped me recognize that we often don’t notice the “othering” in our own communities.

I’d also say we need to be careful not to make the Church too American. We’re an international church. Cultural values need to be based on doctrine, not on the country we live in, the state we’re from, the language we speak, or our ethnicity. That’s where problems start.

Host: Yeah. Even growing up in Boise, we lived in California for a year and then moved back. People were like, take your license plate off. They told me it wasn’t even safe.

At the doctor’s office, if they asked where we moved from, I’d say California, but immediately add, “But I’m from Boise.”

Host: You had to whisper it.

Host: Exactly. You could tell people relaxed once they knew I wasn’t really from California.

Lauriann: So funny.

Host: I’ve noticed it too. I don’t live in Boise anymore, but when I visit and go to lunch with friends, they’re all mad about it.

But you experienced something similar in Monterey with your ward, right? With military families?

Host: Oh yeah, for sure. We lived in Monterey, and there were a lot of military families. Military families aren’t there long, maybe four months, eighteen months, two years, then they’re gone.

Some of the more permanent ward members would complain and say the military people should just have their own ward so the rest of us could have stable people.

But others pushed back and said, no, we love meeting all these new people. It definitely became an issue for some people because they didn’t like how transient the ward felt.

Lauriann: Yeah, I think there are challenges like that everywhere, so identifying them helps. Our ward in Seattle was like that too.

Your brother Spencer was in our ward, but we were the transient ones. Everyone was there for the University of Washington, and most of us weren’t staying long term.

It had to be hard to be bishop or one of the long-term members because every few years there was this huge influx of people, then they’d all leave. I understand the challenge.

But every ward has something they have to overcome, political divisions, transient members, economic differences, whatever it is.

The key is making sure we haven’t fallen into the trap of testing people and asking, do they fit?

Of course they fit. They chose to be there. That’s the requirement. You want to be there, and you want to worship the Savior.

Once we start putting people in boxes or adding little qualifiers, we’re heading somewhere unhelpful.

Host: One of my favorite parts of that answer is that you keep focusing on what we can do. Not just complaining about annoying people, but asking, what can I do to make this better? How can I focus on doctrine and show love?

And for people who move a lot, it really is such a gift when you walk into a ward and instantly feel at home. You don’t have family there, you feel displaced, and then suddenly it feels like family.

But on the flip side, I was thinking about culture in a positive sense. In Boise now there’s a Swahili ward, not just a branch anymore. I was talking with people who serve there, especially with the youth.

They were telling me beautiful things. Like after a song, people might clap, because in their culture that’s normal. And no one corrects it because it’s joyful and rooted in love.

They sing a little differently too. They mentioned sometimes in translating sacrament prayers, certain English words don’t have direct equivalents or don’t make sense in the same way. Sometimes they stumble over a tiny word, and the bishop is just like, it’s good, let’s move on.

It was such a small example of realizing they’re doing it right. They’re not stuck on tiny technicalities.

Obviously doctrine matters and you want important things done correctly, but it was just a cool reminder that sometimes the spirit of the law matters more than nitpicking every syllable.

Lauriann: Yes.

Host: My kids would be like, redo it again.

Lauriann: Yes.

Host: My husband would be up there like, not good enough.

Host: Okay, moving on. In what ways does church culture influence parenting, modesty conversations, dating, missions, or marriage expectations? Hot topic.

Lauriann: Yeah, I think we live in what some people call a high-demand religion, and I think that’s fair. Church culture can affect every aspect of life, parenting, marriage, work, friendships, everything. It can be very pervasive.

And like I said before, culture can be positive or negative. The goal is figuring out where that line is for yourself.

For me, it’s usually easy to recognize cultural expectations placed on me as a woman or in a calling, and I’m pretty quick to push back if I feel like it’s unnecessary.

For example, when I was in Young Women, I had amazing leaders. They were fun and wonderful. But every lesson had this elaborate tablescape, everything decorated, all this effort.

As a teenager, I saw that and thought, well, I never want to teach at church if that’s what’s required. No thank you. I’m not interested in raffia and seventeen framed pictures.

Later I realized maybe they just enjoyed doing that. Maybe it helped them feel prepared and invited the Spirit. Hopefully they didn’t feel pressured either. But for me, it was a turnoff.

So if you come to one of my lessons now, just know it will not be cute. It will not be aesthetic. You’re going to have to feel the Spirit through discussion alone.

Those things are easy for me to reject.

The harder ones are parenting issues. Sometimes I feel cultural pressure to judge my own kids or to parent a certain way.

I have to ask myself, am I pushing this because I’m afraid people will judge me as a parent? Or because this will actually bless my child and bring them closer to the Savior?

My oldest son graduated high school last year. Because of his schedule, he couldn’t do release-time seminary, and he’s not an early morning person, so that was out too.

So for the last year and a half, he had to finish seminary online, and I had to push him. It was hard. He’s a great kid and busy.

I kept asking myself, are you pushing this because you’re worried people will think, “Her kid didn’t graduate seminary, what’s wrong with her?” If that was my motive, then it wasn’t worth it.

Eventually I realized for this child, it was valuable because he needed practice pushing through something boring and inconvenient. School came easily to him. Sports came easily to him. But life requires learning how to do hard things you don’t enjoy.

So I finally felt peace that this was the right decision for him, and hopefully my motives were pure.

I also have an older daughter, and sometimes the clothes she wants to wear probably would have gotten her kicked out of Mutual when I was her age.

Now I look at her and think, she is a really good person. Why would this be the thing I focus on?

We’ve had modesty conversations, but more around appropriateness for certain settings, events, and circumstances, not shame. I try to explain expectations and then let go.

Sometimes all five of my kids are sitting with me in church while my husband is on the stand, and I look around and think, this is great.

I don’t care what anyone is wearing. I don’t care who finished seminary. Everybody is here, together with us.

Hopefully their feelings about church are positive. Those are the wins I look for now, not compliance to something that may not actually bring them closer to the Savior.

So yeah, I think about these things a lot.

What about you guys?

Host: I remember one time when my kids were younger, because honestly it is way easier to have a quiet bench at church when your kids are older. When they’re little, it is hard.

So I try never to judge people with loud kids in church. I remember getting really frustrated with one of my daughters, she just couldn’t be quiet or sit still, and I found myself getting upset. Then I had to remind myself, what is the point of this?

The whole point is for her to have a good experience at church. Yes, we should be respectful of people around us, but I’m not going to help her feel the Spirit if I’m just angry and annoyed.

I remember making that decision right there. I’m going to approach this with love, not frustration. It wasn’t like we had a perfect bench after that, but it was better because I was more focused on my relationship with my daughter and the feelings she was having at church, instead of worrying what other people thought if she kept wiggling or being loud.

Host: Yeah, parenting is hard because you have to focus on what’s best for them, not what other people think. That’s tough.

Host: For me, there have definitely been multiple experiences where culture and doctrine got confused. Right before I moved here, I was asked to teach Relief Society, and one of the ladies wasn’t asking about the lesson itself. She was asking about the tablescape.

And I was like... oh, that’s not something I do. I’m not going to do that.

She was offended and appalled because apparently before I got there everything had always been decorated.

Host: She decorated it for you, which is fine if that’s her thing.

Host: Exactly. It was her thing, and she knew it wasn’t my thing. But little situations like that happen all the time.

That was something I really struggled with for years. It took me a long time to realize that wasn’t doctrine.

That’s why I feel passionate about this topic. I didn’t know what was culture and what wasn’t.

Even my Sundays look different than most of my family’s Sundays. I believe in swimming on Sunday. If I’m with family, I really don’t care what we’re doing as long as we’re together and having a good time. I know I’m more lenient, and that’s okay. That works for my family.

Even at church, you want your kids to be perfect, and then you realize you’re chasing something that doesn’t even exist. Who cares? You showed up.

I think I’ve especially learned that with Callie. We had an Easter service the other day, and luckily Lauren’s daughter Lincoln, we carpool with them, has really taken Callie under her wing.

Callie’s in fourth grade and Lincoln is in third, but they’ve gotten really close. They do activities together, and all the girls are getting to know Callie, which has been so sweet.

Now that Jocelyn is in Young Women, I was thinking, how am I going to get Callie up to the pulpit to sing and then back to my seat?

But Lincoln will just come over, grab Callie’s hand, walk up with her, and help bring her back. Sometimes Callie doesn’t come back to me, she goes with Lincoln somewhere else. Sometimes she just stays with her.

And I’ve had to realize as a parent, you just let go. Jesus is here. Is that really what He cares about, the little logistics? No.

Okay, the skirt is a little shorter. My son wore slippers to church sometimes. Whatever. That’s not the hill to die on. Let’s move on and remember the purpose of being there.

Host: I think we’ll end with one more topic. We’ve talked about teaching the next generation and our kids. What are we going to do to help them understand the difference between God’s voice and cultural expectations?

Lauriann: Yeah, I think that’s a really good question. Hopefully my experience is helpful to other people.

Like you’ve both said, first you have to know the doctrine. That doesn’t mean you have to sit down and devour the scriptures or read the Book of Mormon in thirty days. That’s not what I mean.

I mean you have to let the things you do learn actually sink in.

For me, maybe that’s reading ten verses of the Book of Mormon a day. For someone else, maybe it’s listening to a podcast. Whatever it is, it doesn’t have to be huge, but it has to become real to you.

What I’ve realized is that the gospel of Jesus Christ is one of the simplest things, but it has to sink in or you’ll miss it.

We were sent here to use the bodies we’ve been given, use our agency, choose the Savior again in this life, and learn as much as we can so we can carry that growth with us.

But I think many of the lessons we’re meant to learn are relational. How do we work with other people? We’re not going to the Celestial Kingdom by ourselves. That might sound great to me sometimes, but that’s not the plan.

Host: Mhm.

Lauriann: So when we talk about culture, culture should foster positive relationships, with the Savior, with ourselves, and with other people.

When you’re at church or in life and something is bothering you, keeping you from feeling the Spirit, or distracting you from doctrine, often there’s a disconnect between cultural expectations and what the gospel actually is.

For me, whenever I notice myself putting something ahead of the relationship, in my marriage, with my kids, in my family, or with people I serve with, then whatever that thing is probably isn’t very important.

If it takes away from the bigger goal, helping people feel the love of the Savior, then it probably isn’t the priority.

That doesn’t mean details never matter. Sometimes we are corrected on things like the sacrament prayer, and humility matters there. There are things that should be done correctly out of reverence and respect.

But for the most part, we need to protect our relationships.

And I think the best way to teach kids is the direction the Church is already moving with youth, helping them rely on the Holy Ghost. Helping them be close enough to the Spirit that they can understand what is important for them.

Some parts of culture may support their journey back to the Savior. Other parts may not serve them at all.

If they’re overwhelmed about jobs, parenting, life decisions, any of it, they can come back to center and ask, what would the Savior have me do? What matters most here?

A lot of times, when I do that, I realize the thing I was obsessing over probably wasn’t that important. I had lost sight of the real point, kind of like the Pharisees.

I’ve also noticed with my kids that they sometimes get impatient with older people who grew up in what feels like a different church culture than they did. So I try to help them understand that people were shaped by a different time, different expectations, different rules. And that’s okay.

But if those things aren’t necessary now, then we don’t need to keep repeating them.

We often have Family Home Evening on Sunday night because that works better for our family. I really don’t think it matters if it’s Monday night or not. That’s a cultural thing.

Do what makes sense for your family and what brings them closer to the Savior. If the other stuff is getting in the way, it’s probably time to reevaluate.

Host: Everything you said, I’m like wow, I never thought of that. Or wow, that was really insightful. I wish my brain worked like that. Very well spoken and thoughtful.

Host: Thank you. I think you were the perfect person to talk about this topic.

Lauriann: Well, I appreciate it.

Host: We knew it was a hard topic, but we knew you’d nail it.

And I also appreciate that some people could talk about this topic by just complaining about everything. But you approached it as history, perspective, growth, and how to focus on the right things. It feels really positive.

Lauriann: Yeah. I think we just had General Conference, and honestly we should probably look at Christianity itself as a culture of people who love the Savior.

If someone loves the Savior, they should be welcome in. Let’s not worry about what they look like or what they’re doing in the middle of the week.

It should be a big community of people trying, the best they can, to have a relationship with Him and worship Him.

And I think that’s what the prophets have been trying to emphasize in recent conferences. Sometimes we focus too much on divisions, which is a particular problem in society right now.

That unifying message really lays the groundwork for what a positive church culture should look like.

Host: Mhm. Yeah.

Lauriann: For sure.

Host: And it was funny because we had planned this topic, and then several conference talks ended up talking about culture too.

Lauriann: Yeah.

Host: Good timing. Well, thank you for coming. We hope you all have a great week, and we hope you know God loves you.