Bigfoot, Black Goo, and the Monster We Keep Chasing (Part 2: Folklore, Fact & America’s Paranormal Obsession)

What happens when mystery collides with science?

In this episode, Robert Barber and returning guest Dr. Brian Parsons dig deeper into America’s strangest cryptid cases—like the Murfreesboro Mud Monster, black goo evidence, and unexplained footprints.

From haunted forests to local law enforcement transparency, we explore why paranormal stories like Bigfoot endure—and how they fill the same mythic space ancient legends once did.

Whether you’re a believer or a skeptic, this is true folklore in motion.

🎧 Listen now for rare insight into the psychology, symbolism, and stakes of American cryptid folklore.

Chapters

• 0:00 Recap and Introduction
• 3:11 The Murfreesboro Mud Monster
• 6:26 Sasquatch: America's Flagship Cryptid
• 11:04 Why Cryptids Fill Modern Voids
• 15:54 The Future of Cryptozoology
• 22:30 Advice for Aspiring Researchers
• 24:45 Closing Thoughts and Farewell

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Last time on State of the Unknown, we sat down with Dr Brian D Parsons, researcher, investigator and author of Eastern Cryptids. We explored the roots of America's strangest legends and why these creatures refuse to vanish from our folklore. If you missed part one, go back and start there. This one picks up right in the middle of the mystery, and today we pick up right where we left off, diving deeper into the sightings, the theories and the questions that might never be answered. I'm your host, robert Barber. This is part two of our conversation and this is State of the Unknown. Welcome back, dr Parsons. Let's shift from the bigger picture to the creatures themselves. Out of all the cryptids in Eastern Cryptidsids, is there one that stands out to you as your personal favorite, and not just the one that you might believe in the most, but the one that fascinates you? Maybe it's the weirdest story, the most persistent folklore, or just the one that refuses to let go one story that really jumps out to me that I really enjoyed researching.

Speaker 2: 1:22

I didn't realize like all the uh, the ebbs and tides and the highs and lows was with the murfreesboro mud monster in illinois. So this one. Several different people claimed they see and hear this creature. There were footprints left behind that aren't human footprints. They're long and thin. These kids at a park they'd seen it. And then another kid in his backyard saw it. His parents didn't believe him, but then the they'd seen it. And then another kid in his backyard saw it. His parents didn't believe him, but then the neighbor had seen it.

Speaker 2: 1:47

They brought all these police, the whole entire police force, out there looking for this thing. They had search dogs that picked up on a scent. They found this black goo that they never were able to identify. They followed this descent into a barn and the dog refused to go in there. You, you hear that a million times.

Speaker 2: 2:03

But all the weird stuff that happened, all the interviews and all the strange stuff. It sounds just like any other cryptid story. However, the weird thing about it is the Murfreesboro Police Department. If you go to their website, they have on a PDF file all of the interviews, all of the reports, photographs, file, all of the interviews, all of the reports, photographs a lot of it's fan mail, but they have all the information ever gathered about that case for anyone to look at. And that's the only case in this book that I've ever seen that the police has made publicly available for anyone to go and look at.

Speaker 2: 2:40

And I just found that fascinating and to just read through that, which made writing this a whole heck of a lot easier, because there it is, there's a whole pile of information. If everybody did that, you know, somebody would have already written this book probably 20 times. But I just found that story I mean the story itself wasn't overly fascinating. It was again very similar to you know, just enough data to not really find anything credible. And the stories themselves are incredible of seeing this creature and people fearing for their lives and running through the backyard. There's a lot of stories that are very similar to that, but the fact that all that information is readily available to the public I find really fascinating as a researcher especially Interesting, so I want to shift gears.

Speaker 1: 3:28

So let's talk about Sasquatch. You brought it up, so I'm going to bring it up again. It's almost a cultural icon at this point America's flagship cryptid With so many sightings, hoaxes, theories and media portrayals. What's your personal take? Do you think there's something real there and if so, what is?

Speaker 2: 3:48

Sasquatch. So there's a lot of camps of thought and it's in the cryptid field you have with, especially, bigfoot. I almost wish my dream, if I could have things any way I wanted with cryptozoology, would be to actually remove Bigfoot from cryptozoology and have its own field called Bigfootology, because it's so dominating. Like you said, it's the flagship, he's the big guy. Bigfoot is so big it overshadows all these no pun intended all these other creatures. But what's cool to me is, granted, we've had schools of thought for a long time, people of the gigantopithecus thing. That's been around for a long time, even the interdimensional folks. That's been around for about 20, 30 years, since the chaos theory which was made famous by Ian Malcolm in the Jurassic Park, Michael Crichton novel and subsequent movies which with chaos theory, and then we get into string theory and now we're in the multiverse theory. So you know, being in the ghost field, you kind of have to if you want to be taken somewhat seriously. You have to understand physics. But it's weird to hear, like bigfoot, people talking about interdimensional creatures and stuff, like you guys know and and they're all like, they all say the same thing, like this is this is, uh, theoretical, there's, there's working models. I was like no, there's not. Like this is not, this is not really happening. There's no interdimensional anything like this. It's all hypotheses, like this isn't like really happening. But they they're under this impression that we know that this happens and we're watching it or whatever. But it's not. But that camp has been around for a while and it seems like it's getting a little stronger and I wonder why, when you have movies and TV shows that are lazily, hastily written using intradimensional characters, you can kill one off and bring one off from Earth-388, and you're all set. But it's lazy writing. I can't stand movies and shows like that. It's boring. Anyway, and I think that's kind of where we're at with cryptozoology in the Bigfoot field, because hey, these creatures are coming in and out, these witnesses will see it, and then it's gone the next second we're following these tracks and then they're gone. I mean it's nature, these tracks and they're gone. I mean it's nature. Have you ever followed a deer and a deer disappears? Does it mean it's going interdimensional? No, they run away and they hide, they camouflage themselves.

Speaker 2: 6:09

Deer prints change as elevation changes, you get away from um lakes and rivers, the water table changes and you're not going to have this many prints. The grass changes and the angle of the sun everything affects a print in different ways. Prints disappear within days or even hours. Sometimes you know if it's in the grass the grass is going to pop back up. Mud dries Mud. When it rains, it washes out, you know, reanimates.

Speaker 2: 6:35

This isn't like permanent. This isn't your attic where everything's like a museum. It stays the same for decades. But you know, then you have the flesh and bullet crew and I guess I would put myself in that, but I don't know how that works and I don't claim to know how that works. I'm not a gigantopithecus person, because I don't think, knowing what a gigantopithecus is and it wasn't it doesn't make any sense. Um, this would have to be something completely different. But I can't, there's no way I can, I can't explain it because it doesn't make sense. You know we'd have to find some other thing. Between neanderthal and holosapien there would have to be some other missing link found that would kind of point us in that direction. And so far it hasn't happened.

Speaker 2: 7:17

And with the amount of so and this is, people get mad when I, when I play this role, but you'll hear these people talk and they'll say well, with the with a large number of reports all over the world. There has to be Bigfoot, because so many people are seeing them and so many people are reporting them. Drop the mic, look at that. Then my question is well, if there's so many reports, then where's the evidence? Where's the evidence? Where's the lineage, if we have all of these creatures all over the place? First of all, where's the bones? Where's the evidence? Where's the fossils? We'd have to have fossils. These things just didn't just appear here. They would have to have evolved.

Speaker 2: 7:55

Second of all, if you have 500 different types of Bigfoot all over the world, yet they're all different. Some are tall, some are small, some are fat, some are thin, some have four toes, some have three toes, some have two toes, some have five, some have large arms that hang below their knees, some have hands that are mid-thigh, some, you know, different colored fur. If all all these things are true, we have such a variation. That doesn't make sense either. You know, granted, humans we're very diverse. To another creature, we're all the same thing, but these creatures are so various when you're talking about them, I just can't make any sense of it. But if I had to, if I had to say, I would say that they're flesh and blood. However, to quote one of my favorite scientists, neil degrasse tyson I he said this on star talk and it totally made sense to me. This is exactly how I felt and I didn't realize it until he said it that my belief in something, especially bigfoot and a lot of these cryptids, is exactly equal to the amount of data that supports it. I think I said it pretty close to how he said it. I haven't really thought about it since. I heard that about a week ago, but it's true.

Speaker 2: 9:11

People ask me do you believe in Bigfoot? I'm like well, I believe that people believe in Bigfoot. I believe that there is something that people feel is Bigfoot, but do I believe that I'm going to run out there and throw a net over a creature and drag it in? Then the answer is no. I don't think we're ever going to find a flesh and blood creature. However, bigfoot exists in culture, exists in folklore, exists out there because we believe in it. It exists because we believe in it. And then, if you're going to ask me that way, then absolutely 100%. I believe, absolutely 100. I believe it's bigfoot because it's. It's there, it's already there, it's ingrained in our culture. So I can't not believe in it because it's there, but do I do? I think we're ever going to find one. I almost hope we don't, because that's going to ruin, it's going to burst that bubble, it's going to change everything.

Speaker 2: 10:01

And I think a lot of researchers feel that same way. The ones that are like I've been looking for a big for my whole life. I never had a sighting. It's like what would you do if you did? Like would that change anything? I'm like, oh no, and then you. Then they think about it like you gosh, yeah, I don't want to find one now. Thanks for telling me that, because it would change everything. It would change your perspective.

Speaker 1: 10:20

That's a really interesting way of looking at things, and I can completely see what you're talking about there. Now we've been talking about how much of this connects to legend and folklore. Do you think these stories fill a certain void in modern life? Maybe that's why so many people are drawn to believing in something ancient or primal that science or society no longer provides. In the past, whether in Native American traditions or even further back, a lot of legends emerged as ways to explain the unknown. Now, with modern science and a more advanced society, there's a lot less mystery. Do you think that change affects how people connect to these legends today?

Speaker 2: 11:06

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, you look at the Greeks, you know they had Zeus and they had. You know all these gods and you know, I mean, granted, we have Thor nowadays, but you know all these ancient cultures, these, these stories to pass down of these gods which explain things and gave them perspective on the world and gave them, um, that feeling of a place on this planet and a reason for existing and, um, you know that, uh, pathway to, you know, the other world, depending upon the culture. You know the egyptians or the greek or the romans or whom whomever you know, had all these different, different ideas. And of course, you know not to bash religion. But here comes christianity, riding across the country, killing in the name of and trying to spread their word that we're the best, we're the, we're what you need to believe in, and unfortunately, like that, dominates the landscape. Now, you know we have a lot of different religions, but Christianity, catholicism, pretty much dominate the landscape. But there's other outliers that kind of believe different things. So people are less likely to believe in those things, to change their thoughts and ideas. But I think now we don't have those as much stories and of course, you know, religions become a part of capitalism. You know they have their business and it's, uh, taking the money and it's, you know, having the pastor driving the ferrari around.

Speaker 2: 12:32

I could say all these things. I'm a reverend, I belong to a church, so I could say those things. Things have changed when you're talking about religion and these stories and the belief. We don't have those things anymore. And it's like you said, we do have science to latch onto, but I think a lot of people that believe in this stuff don't really have a firm grasp on science anyway, which is not to be mean, that's just how it is. Some people just don't care, like I don't care about math anymore. I gotta calculate. What the heck do I need to know about math anymore, except for statistics, of course, being in research. But you know, we we have to have something to grasp, we have to have something to get us through our day, we have to have something to hold our interest or to think that there's something beyond what we know. And this is it, this.

Speaker 2: 13:19

You either believe in ghosts, you believe in cryptids or you believe in ufos. Some people believe in all three, but it's. It's interesting how different groups of people believe in different things like this that are pseudo-scientific and scientists don't like that at all, but it's, it's part of culture, it's part of something beyond what we know, and it's again it's that you almost hope we don't find anything, because then it's going to ruin all that belief. Because, oh, now it's truth, it's not just you know something that I want to believe in, it's now it's true. Which would change it, it would change the concept.

Speaker 2: 13:55

I think, um, but yeah, I, I think it's. It's firmly rooted in you know, the, you know, going back thousands of years and different, different, uh, beliefs. You know, the mayans had theirs, the egyptians had theirs, the greeks and the romans, everybody had their belief systems. And you know, granted, you know we give, bigfoot's got superpowers, you know, just like gods and goddesses of their day. You know, mothman can fly. He's like 300 pounds, but he can fly around the sky. I don't know how, but okay, you know bigfoot can throw trees.

Speaker 2: 14:29

Um, yeah, I think it fills a gap, it fills a void. Um, people who are people who are religious aren't necessarily spiritual, if that makes sense. So some people fill the gaps again with the ghost field, I think with cryptozoology as well. I meet a lot of people that believe in this stuff so much that they cry when they talk about it. It fills that void, it fills that gap of spirituality that they need something like that to get them through their day and their life. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not bashing those people. I think it's fantastic that you believe in something at all, because some people don't believe in anything. And it's good to have that belief, as long as you don't take it too far.

Speaker 1: 15:12

You've got a point there. Throughout history, from events like the Crusades to countless other conflicts, millions of people have lost their lives because of belief. Now, as someone who has been in this field for decades, what do you think is next for cryptozoology? Are we moving toward a more scientific, data-driven era, or is the future more about folklore, cultural storytelling and reinterpreting the past?

Speaker 2: 15:42

so, like I, I mentioned before that mid-1940s, when the term was coined by ibert t sanderson not bernard hoovemans, but he, he also came up with it. You know, we had the idea of exploration, of looking for these creatures, of documenting these sightings, but it's it's kind of become more of documentation, it's become more of the folklore and I don't really see us getting out of that. I see more of the same, you know. And again, when you define cryptozoology through the eyes of science, they poo-poo it and they say, oh, it's pseudoscience, they haven't really come up with anything new, which is true. It's like the ghost field. It's been the same stuff for over 140 years now. Cryptozoology hasn't really evolved, it hasn't really come anywhere, and I know there's a lot of people that are probably punching their car radios or they're throwing their phones across the room right now. It's understandable and it's frustrating. Trust me, like I'm I want this to. I would like to see this field get better and grow and and find things and discover things, but it's just, it's just not. It's just not what it does.

Speaker 2: 16:49

Cryptozoology is a belief system. It's not a scientific field, it's not. It's not a a segment of zoology, it's not even a part of um, folklore, you know, uh, folklore studies or anything like that. It's, it's, it's on its own, it's a belief system, so it's not going to evolve. You know, we can try as we might, um, and there's going to be plenty of people that are going to put themselves out there and try to create new technology to find bigfoot and, um, you know, maybe radar systems to find these thunderbirds flying around. You know, I don't know, but I don't see a lot of that happening. We haven't seen a lot of that happen in the last 20, 30 years. Uh, there's been some people that have tried, you know, drones and other tech, but really it's funny because they they use this tech to to uh try to find bigfoot and all these other creatures. They ended up trying, they ended up using it more now for finding missing persons in the woods, which is fantastic. It's almost like the space program. You know, if we wouldn't, we wouldn't try to go to space, we wouldn't invent, you know, zero gravity pens and all these other things that that are fantastic. But anyway, yeah, I, I don't, I don't really see the field growing or evolving. I think it's just more of the same, just a more modern version, if that makes sense.

Speaker 2: 18:09

So things like the montauk monster, misinterpretation of of creatures I guess the montauk monster was one, too, that I should have mentioned. I really loved that because it was one of the most viral stories of 2008. It was just, yeah, it was a photograph of a dead raccoon, of dead, bloated, burnt raccoon that people just argued for hours on, and in the book I said anybody with a thumb had an opinion, which was true, and it was. To me, that was very entertaining. I love that because people are so passionate about that and opinionated and firm in their firm in their grasp and what was happening. And then, you know, the truth came out and by then, everybody moved on. Nobody cared that it was was a poor, tortured raccoon that had been given a Viking funeral, basically, and it was what Jeff Korn said it was. He knows what he's talking about. But, yeah, everybody, like all these famous biologists, came out of the woodwork and were asked what do you think? The Montauk monster is? Fantastic story and, again, one of the most viral things, and I think we're just going to have a rehash of that.

Speaker 2: 19:18

I think the Bigfoot thing, I think people are getting tired of it and currently I haven't heard much word lately, but rumor has it there's another body that's going to be turning up in New York State pretty soon. That's going to be another hoax, don't worry, it's going to be another hoax, just like the Georgia Bigfoot hoax back in 2008 turned out to be a hoax. They had September 1st, they had a 2008,. They had a press conference that fell apart very quickly when they were just kind of spinning their wheels. It was just snake oil salesmen and people were walking out of that press conference. It was pretty bad and then it just fell apart right after that. And this one's going to be the same. But we're I think people are getting tired of that the hoax. But people are are will get excited when these other things like the montauk monster we have strange creatures found somewhere.

Speaker 2: 20:15

Those stories tend to get a lot of traction. So I think you know we're about due for something like that. But um me I. I think people need to look at the the more of the out of place creatures like the alligators. Alligator sightings are happening all over the east coast, but they're not finding their way on their own. They're being deposited by people. So that's why people don't really hardcore cryptozoologists don't like that. They won't talk about because people we put them there, but it's an interesting theory or interesting story because so many of them are being found and it's only a matter of time until somebody gets injured or maybe even killed by an alligator let loose by somebody. I think that deserves some attention or some study. But as far as the field going anywhere, I just think it's the same old thing year in, year out.

Speaker 1: 21:04

Gosh. I remember when that happened, the hysteria that surrounded that Montauk monster, so that's a fascinating story. And you're right, it had all the ingredients to go viral. It wasn't just the mystery itself. It also tapped into government distrust, conspiracy theories. All of it caused it really to snowball into a larger-than-life controversy.

Speaker 2: 21:27

Yep, all from an article in a local Long Island newspaper and a black and white photo. And then the body disappeared and the stories changed and, yes, the conspiracy theory which was introduced in the article about the animal testing facility. And, yeah, you're right, animal testing facility. And yeah, you're right, it checked every box and everybody was, oh my gosh, it was so viral, it was just like you said. It snowballed out of control and it lasted quite a while and every time I thought it would go away, it's ugly head came back up again. No pun intended.

Speaker 1: 22:00

Absolutely. And finally, for those listening who are fascinated by the unknown, who maybe want to chase it the way that you have, what advice would you give them?

Speaker 2: 22:11

So the thing that I like to tell people and I don't do as much of it anymore because I talk about just cryptids, but when I had my book Handbook to the Amateur Cryptid Zoologist, I talked a lot about what steps should you take to get into this field. You don't have to follow my footsteps. I took the long way to get here, but I tell people. I think the most important thing, especially for young people, is to learn what is normal. Learn what's in your backyard, learn what's in the forest, learn what normal animals sound like in various conditions. What does a braying fox sound like? What does a coyote sound like at 10 o'clock, at midnight, at four in the morning, when their calls change different times of the year? What do these things sound like out there? And if you can learn all that, what do barred owls sound like? What do barn owls sound like? What do screech owls sound like? What do all these animals sound like? What kind of sign do they leave behind?

Speaker 2: 23:06

Once you learn what's normal, then you can worry about what's abnormal or what's potentially paranormal, because if you don't know what you're looking for or looking at, how can you find what's different? You have to know. You know if you know the shoe manufacturers that make those foot glove kind of shoes and you've ever seen those. But it could be really true. If you don't understand how nature works, is that the other thing? How prints can become larger, especially in wintertime or when it rains. A mud track can become larger due to washout a certain way. If you don't understand how that works, that works against you and it can fool you as a researcher. So the more you can understand about nature, animals and the way, especially, water works, water is very, very important. Water shapes everything, um. So if you can understand what water has an effect on the landscape and prints and tracks and things, you're already on your way. And don't worry about cryptozoology, study, biology, study regular animals and you'll eventually get there.

Speaker 1: 24:14

So learn about zoology before you worry about cryptozoology.

Speaker 2: 24:19

Correct, because if you don't know what's already out there, how are we going to figure out these weird ones?

Speaker 1: 24:26

don't know what's already out there. How are we going to figure out these weird ones Before?

Speaker 2: 24:32

we let you go. Where can listeners find Eastern Cryptids if they want to dive deeper? Eastern Cryptids is available on the Big River website, amazoncom. It's also through my website at briandparsonscom that's Brian with an I, so Brian D Parsonscom. You can find all my appearance information there Um my current projects. All my links to all my books are there for to go to Amazon as well, and through Lulu, which is my um self-publishing website as well.

Speaker 1: 24:59

Okay, great, and actually you just covered what I was just going to follow up with. That is that if someone wanted to follow your work or keep up with any talks or appearances that you've got coming, I was going to ask where should they go, but it probably your website or even social media would. Would be a good place to start, right.

Speaker 2: 25:16

Correct All my social media links. I usually only hang out on Facebook and Instagram. Yeah, those links are also through my website, BrianDParsonscom. Great.

Speaker 1: 25:25

Great, great. Dr Parsons, thank you again for this fascinating conversation. Your insights into folklore, research and the enduring pull of the unknown have given us a lot to think about. Really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us today.

Speaker 2: 25:41

And I thank you for having me on Again. I'm a big fan of the show and no pressure in me being the first guest on here or anything, but hopefully this goes well and people enjoy this content and that that fuels you to get other uh other guests on the show as well.

Speaker 1: 25:57

Well, I really hope so and thank you so much, and, if you're open to it, I would love to have you back for some more conversation in the future as well.

Speaker 2: 26:03

Yeah, I think we just scratched the surface, so I'd be completely up for that.

Speaker 1: 26:07

That's terrific. Thank you so much. Well, dr Parsons, once again I really appreciate you speaking with me. Have a great evening. Thank you very much, and that concludes part two of our conversation with Dr Brian D Parsons. We've traced the threads from ancient belief to modern mystery and explored the delicate balance between science and the stories we tell. But remember the world still holds shadows where the unknown hides, waiting for those just brave enough to seek it. If today's journey into the unexplained sparked your curiosity, be sure to follow State of the Unknown wherever you listen, and share this episode with a fellow explorer. And if you enjoyed what you heard, your review helps more truth seekers find their way to us. Until next time, keep chasing the stories, questioning the shadows and following the trail into the state of the unknown.