DEAN AND DAWES: Bondage Surprise

Guest: Author of Swipe Therapy Mira Sumanti has a surprise bondage date!

Hosted by: Jackie Dawes and Timothy “Dean” Gager

To appear on the podcast or give listener feedback to email thetwodeans@gmail.com or deananddawespodcast@gmail.com Join the Facebook Group: Fans or Listeners of Dean and Dawes or Text Us through the app you listen to the podcast from

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Show notes

1)- Fringe Festival Hollywood Fringe (also known as the Hollywood Fringe Festival or HFF, formerly Hatchery Arts) provides a platform for emerging, experimental and underrepresented artists to build community with one another. Through that platform, HFF makes live performances more accessible to artists and audiences alike. HFF operates as a training ground for artists to become producers and activates local neighborhoods to spur economic growth.

2) Time Zone ADHD in scheduling, and ADHD Dating

3) Karaoke Disaster

And Gong Show Karaoke  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOzge3TgVM

4) Listener Feedback

a) Harrison Butker https://www.npr.org/2024/05/16/1251778598/nfl-harrison-butker-commencement-speech-backlash

4) APP TIME-“Costume App” 

5) Black Rose Bar in Tokyo https://www.swingerstokyo.com/black-rose-fetish-club-tokyo/ 

Jackie Dawes is a Teacher, writer, ADHD survivor, Imposter …somewhere Ms. Kursman is laughing hysterically.

Timothy “Dean” Gager has published 20 books of fiction and poetry, which includes his latest novel, The Shadows of the Seen, forthcoming with Pierian Springs Press in 2025. He hosted the successful Dire Literary Series in Cambridge, MA from 2001 to 2018, and started a weekly virtual series in 2020. He has had over 1000 works of fiction and poetry published, 18 nominations for the Pushcart Prize. His work also has been nominated twice for a Massachusetts Book Award, The Best of the Web, The Best Small Fictions Anthology and has been read on National Public Radio. 

 The 2 Deans produced by Timothy Gager

Theme song and App Time Jingle written and performed by Delaware’s Aspartame Daddies

If you want MERCH. Dean and Dawes Sweatshirts ($45), and t-shirts ($30)

 The 2 Deans produced by The Oddball Foundation

Theme song and App Time Jingle written and performed by Delaware’s Aspartame Daddies

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everyone, this is Brian O'Neill here in beautiful Florida Keys, and you're listening to the two Deans, Dating, Dread, and Disasters. What I really want to ask you all is when's the last time you had a date in this town?

SPEAKER_00 0:11

The following podcast are the opinions and satire of Dean.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

And Dean. And maybe some truth.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

And in no way represents the opinions.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

And lack of satire.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Of anyone else but ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

But the people might be true. The story you're about to hear is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. Welcome. Welcome to you. You look great.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Oh, yeah. This is my I'm moving right now kind of face. You like it?

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yeah, a lot of moving. And uh, I heard you're moving and you're moving stuff around your house.

SPEAKER_03 1:16

It's chaos. Everything in my life is chaos. My job is chaos. Fringe festival is chaos. The podcast isn't chaos, actually. You're doing a good job of organizing.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

And you're doing the fringe festival?

SPEAKER_03 1:27

I'm so close to saying I'm gonna have to put it off for a year. I'm so close. It's too hard. I don't know. We'll see. Imagine scripture has so much happening.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

You'll get some great dates off the fringe festival.

SPEAKER_03 1:38

I don't I don't want to get dates off the fringe festival. That's just a bunch of unemployed actors. There's lots of uh no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Groupies listening to your story.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

No, no, no. We're not gonna do that. No dating fringe. Although that's not nice. I do I think that the fringe uh community is lovely.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

They're on the fringe. Do they have like six? Do they have like Greg Brady fringe jackets?

SPEAKER_03 2:05

You know, they don't have any of those things. You know, I used to love those t-shirts in the 80s where it was like half a shirt and then it turned into fringe. But now I'm hearing fringes coming back. I saw that. I will not, I will not partake.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

And sometimes they had fringe and beads attached to it.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

I think I remember maybe.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

And now, like, the only people that wear those are like, you know, you kind of see them like special needs.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Costume?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah, costumes are special needs. Like you don't really see.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

I'm telling you, I've seen this. It's coming up. Fringe is coming back. I don't think it looks particularly attractive, but it is coming back. It's making it come back.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

So a couple weeks ago, like you were also under stress from your job. So let's talk about like does stress interfere like stress interfering with dating and fun. Can you overcome stress by just like blocking out and having fun dates, or is it gonna seep in for you?

SPEAKER_03 3:01

For me, I think it's gonna seep in, and I don't think it makes me look exactly very attractive. Can you imagine me meeting somebody for drinks after a day of work when I'm pissed and you just sit there and listen to this poor this woman rant at you? That's awful. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

It's sad. Like I always try to like put it like in this little box far away from me, but then like the second I'm out, I'm kind of like, I'm stressed.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

If anyone opens the door and asks how the workday was.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

Yeah, like like you know, you're on a date and they're like, oh, this is a lovely restaurant. I said, Oh yeah, and the plumber cost me$320.

SPEAKER_03 3:34

You know, just any kind of topic that opens up some sort of trigger and you accidentally let the floodgates out, then the person is gonna know they're gonna see you in a way you might not be ready for them to see you in. Especially if someone brings up work to me, they're gonna see me in an unflattering light. So it is what it is.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

So it's true love if they actually see you that way and then they continue and they want to date you some more. Or either that or they just want to or they just want to take you home.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Either that or I have no idea. I cannot tell you. I've not been on the other side of me.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

I mean, I've been on the other side of that, and like you know, if I if I'm interested in the person and I find them attractive or whatnot, they can be freaking out, and I'm just as long as that's not their state 24-7.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

You know, I it reminds me, I did go on this one date right after I had broken up with uh a pretty serious relationship.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Was it with the doctor?

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Yeah, it was. And in my first date, my actual first real date afterwards was that summer trying to be like, no, I can do this. I'm gonna go on Tinder and I'm gonna go on a date. So I went on this date and we were both just broken up with people. And I don't think a lot of people on people who have just broken up, immediately go on to the ex. And they immediately go on there, and then they last for a few months, and they're like, I'm never going to dating af again. So I go on the date, and all I did was ask about his ex for just a little second because we were both talking about it. And oh my god, my heart bled for him when I heard the story and how horrible she had done, and all terrible and blah. But it did eventually, about 45 minutes into it, after I had eaten an entire basket of bread, and he's still talking about it. I was like, Well, I don't think he's ready either. Together, we are both not ready.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

It was like uh the episode that dropped two episodes ago with like he drove past the ex's house and started crying.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Yeah, it was kind of like that. Yeah, a little bit. He was he was still very sad and very angry. So but you know what? He sent me a message like six months later. It was the sweetest message I ever got.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

There's a lot of people that send you messages like throughout the rest of their lives.

SPEAKER_03 5:39

I do have weird, I have problems with closure. No, he sent me this message out of the blue. I don't even know where to find this person anymore. But he's it said he was like, I just want you to know you were the best date I'd gone on since all of this started. La la la. That's the sweetest thing. I wasn't responding to people's messages. Oh, that's not because after that date, I just it was like, obviously, you're still in love with this dumbass doctor. You don't want to, you're gonna just mess with people's heads. So I stopped responding.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

So this particular guy, every date he went on after you, he talked about I went on a great date and we no longer see you. No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

I think it was probably just probably just because we had the one date he remembered me fondly, right? I don't know. I hadn't he hadn't had enough time with me to for me to screw it up yet. I don't know. I don't know, but it was very sweet. All right, and if he's if he's ever listening, that was so nice. I really appreciate that, Doug. I just know it's Doug. So uh he's very handsome, he's a writer.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Later, later in the show, we have a guest who is uh sitting in Singapore right now.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Ooh, a guest from Singapore on with us now.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

And the amazing thing is it took us three weeks to schedule this because of really bad ADD. Between the time zone changes, um her scheduler and and me, we just couldn't get it together. Because at one point we had it confirmed and it was gonna be 7:30 in the morning for me, which would have been 4 30 in the morning for you, and we couldn't do that to you.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

Oh, I'm I'm glad you um yeah, I'm I'm happy for that.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

So for one schedule, I think we went through like five or six different invitations, and finally my head exploded. It actually exploded, and I had to get a new computer because all the brain stuff ruined the computer. And I after my brain, I I finally just said, look, I've got really bad ADD, and uh, I'm just gonna say we record Eastern Standard Time at 2030. I can't figure it out. Don't send me any ult, just I can't do it.

SPEAKER_03 7:32

Did that work? Is that how she can't do it? And here we are in the show up, she just showed up today. That's amazing. I think she's I saw that.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

I think she's been logged onto our channel here for 24 hours just in case.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

I don't think so. I don't think we're that big. I think you're giving us way more credit, just to not make a mistake, you know, with the time. Yeah, but that's an all that's a huge commitment. I'm pretty sure she did not do that. No.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Now, in terms of that and dating, like how far do you go with someone else's ADD? In other words, like they they might miss your date because they have the wrong time, or they they're like, is is that okay? Because I know you have ADD really bad.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

So uh I have ADHD, but I have to tell you, I I have ADHD and I it's pretty significant. I've never just missed a date because of my ADHD ever. Now, can I be late for things? Sure. Time blindness, yeah, but I've never that would I don't think I'd buy that if someone said, sorry, missed the date, I have ADD. I'd go, no, that's not the reason.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

So on a first date, though, you can always say, Look, I got ADHD, I forgot my wallet, so it's it's on you.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

No, it would still be on the person who didn't make it and lost their wallet if they did not go. No, it's not. I don't think we're gonna make people with ADHD. If we start using this as an excuse for our bad behavior, we're in big trouble. We're still in trouble for the behavior. We still have to take accountability for it. We can't say, oh, sorry, ADD. No, no, Timothy. We have to be able to say, okay, I'm really sorry, I'm gonna fix this, I'm gonna make it right.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

And yeah, I mean, my focus is fine with stuff like that, but like ask me to remember something that might have happened, like that's when it that's when it all goes kablooey.

SPEAKER_03 9:13

I think this time it's not just you're having to hold your in your own time zone. You have to hold my time zone, Singapore's time zone, and your time zone, and try to find a day and a time when it all works. That's different.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

And if I had my way, I wouldn't have any time zones, period. See, no, just get rid of all the time zones for me. For me, me, me.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

Just for you, whatever moment it is, it is the same moment. So even though it is pitch dark on some sun, like there's no sun, it's still gonna be three o'clock in the afternoon for those people because Tim It's three o'clock in the afternoon at all times.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

It never even changes the time.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

It's so easy to remember all time hold stand still for you to make your life more convenient. All right, if that's what you need.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

So uh I went out with some co-workers yesterday and we did karaoke, which is very amusing because I hate karaoke, but yeah, but but I wanted to be a good team player and do karaoke. So uh it was at the course, my co-workers who we talked about earlier in the course of this, they were like, you know, some stuff went wrong, so they said you should talk. We had a karaoke disaster. So we had a karaoke disaster.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

But it's the karaoke, I don't know, but what is the disaster?

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Like um, we reserved a table for nine because there was nine of us. Yes, and so we got there at seven, they didn't have the reservation, and one of my coworkers made this big sting, oh, we've got this reservation for nine, and and they didn't were they were none too happy at the restaurant, and so they sat us, and there was two of us, they sat us at seven o'clock, and the rest of the party didn't get there till eight fifteen. Oh, so that's one disaster.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

That is a I would have been look giving you guys dirty looks like you guys are wasting my table time. I gotta turn the tables, I gotta make some money.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 10:54

And then somebody did you guys overtip then? You overtipped, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah, of course we did.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

Well, then you made up for it.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

It's all good, and then someone else canceled because they were hit by a ball. They were playing softball, they got hit by a ball, got it, and someone else just didn't even show up. So it was sort of like this team building that no one really was uh, what do we do? We don't want there's there's five of us now, and then building camaraderie in this moment, right? But karaoke is the one place that you can have a disaster when when you're singing and it's fun, yes, true. Because, like the unlike dating, right? Yes, the the drunker you get, no, actually, it's very similar to dating. The drunker you get, the more out of tune you are.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

I see. That's true for all things, yeah. So I think you're right.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Um, I love the karaoke duets that they're both out of tune.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

I I not witnessed a lot of karaoke, but people do love it. And I have to say, one of my friends owns a bar downtown and they do a gong show karaoke.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Oh, that's perfect!

SPEAKER_03 11:54

I'm dying to see gong show karaoke. I really do. I just never go out on a Wednesday night, but it does look like and sound like fun, it sounds exciting. So that's all amazing. I'm sorry about your bad karaoke, but did you sing a song?

SPEAKER_01 12:08

I sang two songs.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

What was the first song?

SPEAKER_01 12:10

I sang uh Sunflower by Post Malone from the Spider-Man movie. And I I picked that one because I sing it badly in the car and it's out of my range. So I wanted to.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

It's a sweet song. I love the song, it's good. Okay, and then the next one?

SPEAKER_01 12:23

The next one I did Sloop John B by the Beach Boys.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

Oh, the Beach Boys and Post Malone. Look at you.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Yeah, and then like someone after I did the Post Malone song, she ran up to me, Hi, my name is Eleanor. That's uh so like it was it was weird.

SPEAKER_03 12:41

That sounds like you had fun. I think you had fun, and it's okay. I mean, except for the the waiters not being happy to do it.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

And uh karaoke and MSG do not go well together because the MSG and the Chinese food dries your mouth out completely. So when you have to sing, you got this dry mouth.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

I've never heard of such a thing, but I believe you. I was like, sleep! People like to complain about that MSG. I don't know what it even really means, to tell you the truth.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Do you want some do you want some listener feedback? Because it's all good.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Listener feedback. Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Dear Dinan Dawes, congratulations on the one-year anniversary. The show gets better and better.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Who said that?

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Isn't that awesome?

SPEAKER_03 13:25

It is awesome. Whoever said that, I love them.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, so that's good. So that's one positive. The second positive was um glad for the objection and the objection on the date that women should know their place. Oh, this is a really long letter.

SPEAKER_04 13:42

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Back, you ready? I'll read it in my serious voice. Back a couple years ago, Kansas City Chiefs kicker Harrison Buchler argued that women should prioritize their roles as wives and homemakers over professional careers. The commencement speak, he was the commencement speaker at Kansas Benedict College, a private Catholic liberal arts school, and congratulated the women receiving degrees and said most of them were probably more excited about getting married and having children.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

Are they trying to gross us out with this story?

SPEAKER_01 14:11

What's the uh they're they're supporting us in our stand because Right, correct.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Because we said, What in the hell? Yes, I get that. That's very nice.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yes, they agree with us, and so they were gonna tell their own story so we can be like, aren't we agree with them, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

We agree with them, we do. That would be horrible. I don't think we should give any voice to that Kansas person. I mean, I don't feel that there's anything wrong with choosing that. I'm happy for any woman to make that choice for her life. I'm just not happy when it needs to be presented in a way as it is the better only choice that makes me unhappy and almost angry. Yeah, angry, yes, angry.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

So we also got listener feedback for the very first time on our app time app.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

The very first time? Someone's been a year and nobody said anything about all our great apps. All right, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

They love the love noise app. They said it's a good idea, it's fun and funny. And they agreed with you. They would listen to it just to hear people's noises. And they said, Dean's moose noise is hilarious. I drove off the road.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

It's problematic. It's problematic, but it is funny.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Which reminds me, we've got a we have perhaps have a uh we perhaps have an app for for the for us for this week.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

Are we gonna I'm not gonna get to choose like last week, where you're like, I think we ran out of choices. No, I only chose one out of the three, and all three sounded kind of good, but that's okay. You have a new one, go for it. Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Oh, we can do let's see. I can probably bring up if you want three, I can probably bring up the ones from last week we didn't pick.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

But what if I don't choose the one you want to talk about today?

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Um, I'm already, I'm already uh let's all right. Okay. Um I don't remember what this one means from last week.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

I will remember. What does it say?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

All right, there's all right, there's there's three to choose from to talk about, right? Okay, what tell me the two first one is the the date dating app.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

It's yeah, I remember that one.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

It's no descriptions in the profile, just the dates that you would just the dates you would take them on.

SPEAKER_03 16:30

Right, which is kind of a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Continue, it's almost too good of an idea. We almost can't make fun of it.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

You can't give that to anybody or make fun of it. Continue.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Uh the second app is called On the Cheap, and neither party's allowed to spend any money. So it weeds out the cheap people.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Okay. Well, how wait, how does it weed them out? They'd all join this app, that'd be perfect for them.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

It doesn't weed them out. That that that means that most of the people on this app are gonna be cheap. That's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

And the and the third one, which is the one I was going to talk about, is called the costume party app. Everyone loves a good costume party.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

So for the We've done something like this before, haven't we? I like this idea, but go for it. All right, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Instead of your protot profile pictures, you're just wearing a costume.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

That's I like it. This one I like. This would be fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

So someone can develop that and make a lot of money. The c costume party app is fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

I I do think that's great because it says so much about your personality and you don't have to reveal anything about how you look. I wonder if anybody would choose you. If you like you take a costume that's like, you know, like what if I was Hello Kitty? You couldn't see anything about me except Hello Kitty costume.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah, it tells you personality. Well, it wouldn't really be my I wouldn't probably Well no, because because you chose Hello Kitty, it's describing it.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

No way, I would choose um Pippy Longstockings, or Penelope Pit Stop, or um Trixie. Trixie from uh Speed Racer. I'd be Trixie.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Yeah, you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Just because I like the name. And I want to have a helmet.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah, the helmet's it's almost it's almost like uh a horse riding helmet that Trixie wears.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

With a little but with a little cap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So good. Plus the song. Yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah, when I was a kid, I got uh for Christmas one year, I got a plastic speed racer helmet, and it was so thin and cheap. I used it as a football helmet, and the whole thing just split wide open.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

Oh, go speed racer! Sorry, I love speed racer.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

So joining us live in Singapore is a good one. Is it time? It is. It's Mira and Mira wrote a book called Swipe Therapy, and we're gonna talk about the book a little bit later. But basically, swipe therapy was she joined a bunch of apps to get over something, and uh I she contacted the show and I said, Out of all of your swipe therapy dates, do you have any disasters? And she's got a good disaster for us. So, Mira, tell us a little bit about your disaster.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Hi, hi. Um hi Tibate, hi Jackie. Hi, Mira. Yes. So this one disaster, uh, which I kind of end up writing for the book as well, is so I mean the context was this uh 10 years ago, 2016, um, exactly after my wedding got cancelled, maybe a few months after. Uh, my ex-fiance left five weeks before. So obviously I was extremely devastated, you know, and and like found I would say um escape and distraction through the apps and like meeting people and going on dates. And then I had to go on a work trip to Tokyo um at the end of the year or so. So it's a few months after like the that that major breakup. Obviously, feeling super lonely, feeling like you know, I just wanted to have fun, I just wanted to kind of like go crazy. And I I reached out to an ex-colleague of mine. He used we used to work together a few years back, and but he he left the company and then he uh he he he moved back to Tokyo. Um, and then he was like around, you know, and he was like, Yeah, let me take you out, you know, over over the weekend. And and then I was for at first I you know it was a busy work period, and then like I at the end of that week, I would I wanted to just like have fun. And I I I try to check first because I wasn't sure whether he had a girlfriend or not, right? And and I I try to stalk his Instagram and I see press photos, and I was like, there's no presence of like a female person. So I felt like okay, he's probably like single, you know, and if he wants to like take me out, you know, and then uh so it's a it's it's someone that you work with, but it's definitely a date, you know. Because the thing is, like, um, so there's a little incident that happened uh before he left the company on his uh leaving party uh a few years back. So maybe like one and a half or two years back, some like we we were all drunk, you know, in Bangkok. Um I don't remember much. I just remember that like we went back on the middle of the night, 3 a.m. And then I just remember and then I kind of passed out, and then when I woke up, I remember seeing there's a text message in my in my phone that basically we were exchanging room numbers, but but um nothing happened. I was just checking with my like no one went to any goodbye parties.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

There's always drama when they're leaving. Oh my gosh. Okay, so wait, and yes, Timothy had the same song in my head, drunk in Bangkok song.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

So I'm wondering if uh if like you passed out and he was at your room, like knocking on the door, like, hey, Mira, come on!

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Wake up is you passed out. Wake up. So I didn't know, but all I knew that we exchanged room numbers, but apparently nothing happened. So I thought, like, okay, maybe we know like there was definitely an attraction and it was like maybe uh you know, just like a you know, like a function.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

So now you're gonna act on it like months later. So this is this could be really exciting.

SPEAKER_03 21:46

Wait, same question When the thing happened when you guys almost it's when you exchanged the the numbers, were you with the if the fiance?

SPEAKER_02 21:56

Um at that time, yes, I was. It was like it was It was again I think it was kind of like you know, uh I guess probably right, yeah, like a work crash. We had we worked, you know, we worked together and uh we had fun together.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Did he have to leave his job because he was dating co-workers?

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Oh there's a funny story to that, I'll tell you later. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

So that was the backstory. So then when Tokyo came, I was like, you know, I want to reach out to him because he was like back there. And he said he's a Japanese, and then like yeah, he's back in in Tokyo. So I reached out. He knows he's alone, we we no longer work in the same company, and he was free. And he was like, Yeah, once you're done with like your work, let's hang out this weekend. And so I was like, perfect, you know, maybe we could like you know go back to where we left it off or whatever. I don't know. I checked his Instagram, sim single, so I was like, let's go. Um, and then we went out actually for two nights. The first night, we went out, have dinner, uh, went to like a techno party, super fun. Nothing happened. We just had a really great time until like 3 a.m. And then the next day we were we were super like hangover, and then and then he was said, okay, I'll take you to this bar called Black Rose. And I was like, okay, sure. Like I was like, or the super hangover, I would say, I'll I'll trust you, I'll follow where you're taking me. And then and then so we went. And um, we hop on uh the cab. The bar was like in the between like uh ro Pongi and um what's the main area, but basically like in super central. Um but then when we arrived, like it felt like he was taking me to this like office building or something because I I don't see a sign of like a bar or light, felt very like dim and I just brown, yeah. And then I was like, okay, sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Like could be dangerous, could be but this is the ex-colleagues.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

I try I trust him, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:42

Like, you know, because he's safe, it's just you knew this place now seemed out of the way, right? Is that all?

SPEAKER_02 23:47

Yes, exactly. It's like this doesn't seem like a place where a bar would be. So, but we went, he's like, Yeah, it's up there on the fifth floor, you know. And then I and I I we walked together and then got to this like very small lift at the fifth floor, and then like when when it opened, but when we arrived on the fifth floor, it opened, and then there's this like really like you know, the the signed black rose on this like metal kind of um um sign and then like draped in like red velvet, and I was like, okay, and then the guy basically deck uh wearing all leather was kind of like greeting us up front, talking to him in Japanese, and I was like, okay, and then when we turned right, and then I you know, it's a it's a very small, like red lit bar, you know, like maybe only about like at most 10 seats, very narrow and long. So I walked in there, and then I was like trying to look around, and as I sat sat there, I I start to notice like what's around me. Like on my left, there was like this human metal cage that felt like a bunch of Japanese guys who were like drunk and like high balls, like uh on on the bar, and then and then there's there's like four or five.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

I I must ask you though, in terms of the cages and the leather, was this something that you welcomed when you saw, or was this something that you were kind of wary of?

SPEAKER_02 25:05

I was like, I think I was just again I was being open to whatever it this night would take, you know, because anyway, someone like us, like Tokyo is always a bit crazy, right? So I was like, okay, maybe and there's all kinds of like weird bars in Tokyo, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Like you were open, you weren't feeling uncomfortable about it. You it was just a new experience for you.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

That's when I was like, Oh, he's he's actually taking me to like a bondage bar.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Like, did you feel underdressed?

SPEAKER_02 25:40

That's exactly where he's taking you too.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Did you feel underdressed?

SPEAKER_02 25:43

I was wearing normal clothes, so I was like feeling and he was wearing normal clothes too.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

It's like it's like a surprise, surprise, bondage.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

He he he he took me there, and I was like, Whoa, okay, like and I was just trying to like take it all in, like, not sure like what to expect and all that. And I was like, I was trying to like see how it is, and then and I started quickly to like uh noticing that okay, these these ladies were I think they're the ones who kind of ruled the place. It seemed like they're like this all these Japanese men came there to like adore them, like to kind of like um uh uh you know, and then they were like so much in control, and then I remember starting talking to one of the ladies, and then I just told her, like, oh I I love your costume, and then I just told her, like, oh, I love Halloween, and I like I like to dress up sometimes too, and then I just keep just showing her like all my um Halloween costumes, which includes a few characters from Tarantino movies, right? Like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

But you know what? They could all join our they could all join our they could all join our app, the costume app. Yeah, they are there that's our audience.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

That's true, but I want to hear wait, did you say you said Tarantino movies? Was it from the Kill Bill? Was it from which one?

SPEAKER_02 26:58

There were two costumes that I had. It was basically one from Kill Bill, so Mia Mia Wallace, and then the other one was from a movie he produced, um, Panda Terror. So it's basically the girl with the gun leg. So I had a I had a I had a photo of me wearing those costumes. Was Tarantino there? No, he's not in Jimmy. Go ahead. But to my surprise, the lady who who I showed it to, she she just basically responded to saying, Oh, you like Tarantino? I was like, Yes, and then she just said that Tarantino comes here when he's in Tokyo.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

See?

SPEAKER_02 27:28

I just write the whole thing. I was like, What? Now he's like, now I'm in a on a bar that Tarantino like goes to and when he's in Tokyo, I was like, okay, this thing is getting a bit more strange. And and it was um the next thing was obviously like you know, like I think I think um my date knew I I would be intrigued and would would like you know be like excited about all this kind of craziness. Right. Um and then to a point the ladies were basically telling me, um, do you want to change? And I was like, what do you mean? And then they were like, you know, it can change, change to like our upfits. It's like, oh, I can. And then they're like, Yes, okay. And then so they took me back to um to the the back area where they had a whole wardrobe of like, you know, this like leather outfits and all that, and then they basically just like look at me, pick up some stuff, and then like told me to change. I was like, okay, and I was already pretty drunk, anyways, at the time.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

But you're going around, okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

I said, Why not? So um I I changed into a two-piece, you know, my butt cheeks were like probably hanging out, and then I I looked at myself in the mirror, I was like, wow, this is like a very different mirror, but I was like, anyway, and now did your date did your date change clothes too? No, he didn't. He he waited he waited at the at the bar, and then so I went back, but I just knew like the moment I came back to the that room, we locked eyes, and I just knew like you know, our quote unquote relationship was never gonna be the same, you know, like it just from that moment on, and then it just like the tension just went up, right? I think because he saw me, he saw me in that outfit, and I was feeling very different, you know, like uh yes, like a new sense of like okay, okay, yeah, all that, and and then like the the place just it becomes crazier because suddenly like like the bar seemed very small, but apparently suddenly the lights went off, and then like a hydraulic stage kind of like came up from the back of the bar. The ladies are dancing to Bon Jovi. I remember very quickly it was like a bit of a crazy, like uh uh I have I have I have dreams like this.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Yeah, I have dreams like this, and when I wake up, I go, Holy shit, what a weird dream.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

A Tarantino dream. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

And Tarantino's Tarantino's butt cheeks are hanging out.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

No, no, no, no. Okay, so wait, so you you see him, you're you're are you guys now hanging out in the bar?

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Yeah, we are at the bar. So now the Lake basically gave me the candle. So I was I started like um following her their instruction and start pouring like hot wax on like my date's uh arm, you know, and then he was basically moving. He was like a normal t-shirt because you know I think that's like a normal t-shirt and you just were pouring it on. Okay, I got you. Yeah, so on the on his sleeve, pouring candles there, you know, he was he started like moaning, so it's obviously the tension rises, you know, and then like you you and then in my mind was like, I'm still gonna fuck this guy tonight. This is what went on in my in my head, right? And it's like there's no way you couldn't like not get there after all this situation and him being in the bear and all that.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

And you could you could have also multitasked, you could have like ripped the hair off his arm, you could have done a nice wax.

SPEAKER_03 30:42

No, wax on, wax, no, okay, so the tension's building, but you're staying okay. Go ahead, keep going.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

So that yeah, the tension's building, and it was kind of like I just knew like, okay, it's gonna happen for sure. But then, like, right before you know, we were getting close, I was pouring wax, and then at some point the ladies um asked me to um uh come on the stage, you know, on in and in into that metal cage, you know, and and and basically there was a um kind of a half-naked Japanese guy who was kind of there on all fours, you know, like a kid, and and he, you know, he was kind of like ready to be whipped, and then one of the ladies just passed me her like whip and then basically asked me to kind of get in there and like start like hitting this guy, and I was like doing this now, but this time I was already way too drunk, anyways, and I was really like in my first attempt was poor. I think it was not like it's not easy, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:42

You gotta put a lot of arm into it, okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

Exactly. So I I I end up like, you know, and with every like whip, I felt like I got like my confidence, and I felt like I was embracing kind of that dominatrix kind of like vibe, and I was like loving it by the end of it, and it felt very like exhilarating and empowering. Yes, absolutely. I was like, I I never thought I would I would have this so much like excitement and like so you've burned you've burned someone and you've whipped someone.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

Yeah, I mean this isn't this is interesting. I'm liking this.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Okay, so so then I came back, and and that's kind of uh obviously like I I came down uh with a high of after hitting someone. Like my date, he he basically witnessed the whole thing. So we were like, What's you know? Of course we're gonna like make out, you know, like right.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Wait, do you think he was turned on by you doing this to another man, or do you think it bothered him? Okay, it was turned on, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

So it was it it was it it was that it was leading up to this moment where Yeah, you're having this build-up all night, and it's getting like more and more attention, more and more out there, and then what happened?

SPEAKER_03 32:49

Now it's his turn.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

Yes, so we and then when I came back, uh we sit there, and then like it was just time, like we knew a kiss was gonna happen, and then like so we and so we kiss, and it it was like it didn't take long, maybe like a few seconds, and then I could sense him just suddenly like this pulling back, and I was like, Wait, what's happening, you know, and then like I could just look him in the eyes, and then you you see in his eyes where he it's just a mix of like guilt, but like still having fun, and but he was like, Oh, I cannot do this, you know, and then and then and then I literally like like and then I I had this cold, cold, like uh shiver down my spine, thinking like no, like I was like, please no, and I was thinking in my head, and I asked him, like, don't tell me you have a girlfriend, and he said, Yes, I do, and I was like, Oh after all of that, after all of that, you got you got the prices right, and it is and it was like and and I was trying to like oh shit shit shit. I was like, I need water, I need water, you know. I was like, Okay, I need I need to like so once sober up, and I told him, like, why do you why are you even taking me here? You know, why did he do all of this?

SPEAKER_03 33:59

There's no reason to put you there unless he was planning on fooling around with you.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Yeah, the guilt got the best of him, and then again, you know what?

SPEAKER_03 34:06

It's the kiss, I'm telling you, it's the kiss.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Maybe as it should, you know, maybe the guilt overtaking him as it should. He probably shouldn't have done the whole effort, but like I was gonna say, wait a minute, Timothy.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Oh no, it's almost better than there with the plan to do this. He went, he definitely was like, I can do this, I can do this.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

And then he could walk away and say, I didn't cheat.

SPEAKER_03 34:32

Yeah, let's hear that. Let's see him going home to his car. Listen, I just want to let you know that last night, up until 3 a.m., I was out with this coworker of mine who I do find really hot. And then like tonight, I took her out and we went to this bar where I watched her change into a dominatrix. Like, I don't know that. But I just want you to know, honey, that when she kissed me, I realized I'm getting saved. I have a feeling, I have a feeling that she and the girlfriend would be like, You made several mistakes. There are several mistakes that we need to discuss at this moment. So, terrible Mira. I'm sorry, did you find this?

SPEAKER_01 35:17

After the whole date deflated, what was the vibe and how did the night end?

SPEAKER_02 35:23

So, oh there's a there's a part two to this, actually. So um basically we were like, okay, and I told him, like, dude, like if you told me you have a girlfriend, I wouldn't like come here, and I wouldn't change to this, like, and and and all that, you know. So uh one, I was like, okay, let's get water, let's let's drink like cold water, like sober up, let's not take this further and all that. And he was like, sorry, it's it's complicated, blah blah blah. It's like, oh, don't give me that complicated other complicated thing, you know. Felt like it wasn't just an excuse. Um we were like, okay, no more. And then we were like, okay, fine. It's like uh um it's like it's the mistake, you know, can happen, you know, like we're not gonna continue uh after this, but then we were like, okay, let's just like you know get like one last drink and then like after that we go home, you know, and we're like, okay, fine.

SPEAKER_04 36:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

So that was that was that, but um, so at the end of the night, I felt like maybe we shouldn't have had that last drink. Um at the end of the night, it was where this is like a bit of a weird dance off of you know, you're you're like there's like there's obviously undeniable tension there, like between us.

SPEAKER_03 36:31

Like you know, should we? Maybe we shouldn't. Should we? Yes, we should. And then you went and had another drink, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

That last drink, and then I was dance off. Yes, is it and then it goes on the whole night because I was like, okay, I'm gonna go home now, I'm gonna hop on the cab, I'm gonna hop on the cab, and he was like, Okay, and I got into the cab, um, and he um came in as well. And I was like, What are you doing? He's like, Oh, I'm just gonna make sure you got home, okay. I'm like, Oh and I was like, Okay, fine, you know, and then uh the cab drove drove me back to my hotel, and I was I I hand him, you know, like cash so that he could just take the cab to you know go back to where he, you know, he he lives, and then and I get out. But then he was like asking me, like, can I come upstairs? And I was like, this moment where I and I'm like, and and then at that point, I was like six months or so after the cancel wedding, all I wanted was to have fun, you know. I just wanted to like have some crazy fun, have some romance with someone that's like that I'm somewhat familiar with, not just a complete stranger. And I was like, oh why, you know, and and then at that point I would tell him, like, fine, but we're only gonna be talking in nothing's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

You were in a man cage earlier today.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

I was like, I don't know how I think I'm like, I because you know, I'm at the point like I just wanted like some some like affection and no strings attached, and suddenly there's there's strings to this no strings thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

Well, he added the strings in the windows. Oh, yeah, but at the same time, he's pretending like I have these strings, but I want you. I have these strings, but I don't want you.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

I mean, like I usually do, like I usually do, I I always blame the guy for being a douche, and here it is again.

SPEAKER_03 38:29

Well, I don't know that they're always the douche, but in this case, and I don't even know that he's I mean, I don't know. He's so weird. Like, why he's only you don't ask to go upstairs again. Add this to the list of the things he's gonna go be honest with his girlfriend about. And at what point is she still his girlfriend?

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Honey, we just went upstairs to talk, I swear.

SPEAKER_03 38:54

Okay, she just poured a little hot wax on me, so you go upstairs with and it wasn't in it wasn't like on my scrotum or anything, it was just on my arm, honey. I have to tell you, I think I've always kissed a guy before I've poured hot wax on him. I don't know about this situation. Okay, all right, let's hear it. Let's hear it. So you go upstairs.

SPEAKER_02 39:15

So we went upstairs. Um, and okay, the first thing again, I drink a lot of cold water just to sober up, and then um we we got into a nice chat first, right? Because he knew about my counsel wedding.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Right?

SPEAKER_02 39:27

He knew, he knew heart's broken because he knew I was getting married, and then he knew the whole thing got cancelled. Um, and then so we had a little like um, I don't know, like um uh loss in translation moment, you know, uh up there in the hotel. Like it was the you know, you see the lights of like Tokyo. So it was a bit of a a nice intimate moment, you can say, where we were just chatting, and then I felt like you know, he was listening to like you know, my my story and my pain at the time. Um and then um, but it was just like those moments where you know the the the attraction was kind of undeniable at a time, and we knew we were we were like either we either we're gonna cross the line or I have to we we have to I have to kick him out like now we know or the lines, but okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Uh what'd you do? What'd you do?

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Oh, wait, hold on. Before you answer, Jackie, what do you think she did? I think she kicked him out. What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Oh, if she kicked him out with it, I don't know what I wanted to do. I don't know what he wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Take a guess. No, no, what do you think she did?

SPEAKER_03 40:28

What do I think she did? I think she did the right thing, like, which is gross, but she told him to go home. Instead of having fun, here's what I think you should have done is just gone ahead and had fun because he's already broken up with his girlfriend tonight based on his behaviors. He doesn't know it. But these are breakup behaviors. If his ex if his girlfriend finds out about these behaviors, she will break up with him because under those circumstances, he's already single. So I hope you fooled around with him.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

So to honor you, to honor the other dean, I think you should have made out with him and then kicked him to the curve.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Oh, yeah, she would have definitely said that for sure. And then kicked his ass out. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

All right, what'd you do?

SPEAKER_03 41:03

What did you do?

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Well, I so we crossed the line. Uh all right. It was too much of a push and pull, push and pull all night, you know. We were like, and I and I keep on reminding him when we got close, and dude, you have a girlfriend, and he's like, I know. And I was like, Okay, he doesn't have a girlfriend. So it was and he said that I was like, Okay, it's his choice. And I'm like, I've I've tried multiple times throughout the night to to bring to do the right thing, right?

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Right, absolutely. But he doesn't have a girlfriend, that's not someone he's respecting or treating well at all. I don't think you should date this human because he's clearly not uh very loyal, but at the same time, I hope you had a lot of fun. Was it fun? Was it amazing?

SPEAKER_02 41:49

Yeah, I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Oh no, you remember the night, but you don't remember the sex.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

I remember waking up in the morning with uh a pounding headache and thinking like shit, what did I do? And then and and had wake up with a with a lot of you know what happened.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Wait, was he still there or did he go home?

SPEAKER_02 42:12

He he already went home.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Okay, repeat what you said before because I cut you off. Go again. What did you say? I woke up in the morning with a terrible.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

I woke up in the morning with like um, you know, he wasn't there, you know, and I just noticed the room was a mess, and then uh and then it may be that is that's the point that maybe let's shit okay, it happened, you know. But uh, I don't remember the details. I remember us like I remember us like kind of in that push and pull moment, like you know, trying to make out and keep on like pulling from each other again and all that, but the actual act of sex I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

Who feed you?

SPEAKER_02 42:45

No, I think we were just all right.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

That's a great story, Mira. And uh so does this story appear in the book? Is it one of the or not?

SPEAKER_04 42:56

It does in one of the oh good! You should talk about the book.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

Mira Sumanti. Her book is I think we're pretty much out of time, but her book is.

SPEAKER_03 43:04

Oh, we're out of time. Wait, swipe therapy. I'm gonna buy your book, Mira, and you tell me how to get it.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

There it is. Swipe therapy. We'll do a screenshot of that for you. Swipe therapy, it's available everywhere, it's available across the states, different countries. Uh, the author is Mira Sumanti, and not gorgeous color.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

I love the cover, by the way. Sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

And all and there is some probably some stories that are crazy, but uh uh my guess is a lot of the stories in the book are very, very nice and good, and it's a nice journey that Mira was on.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Right, after a broken heart, elevator. I want to hear the elevator.

SPEAKER_02 43:43

Oh, yeah. So it's uh it's basically it's like part memoir, part like breakup survival guide for like the Tinder generation. Because uh it came from uh uh yeah, after my cancelled wedding, I basically use Tinder and dating apps as my therapy, you know, through the people that I meet, I get to rediscover myself. Um, but it's a host of characters. In it. You know, I met a neuroscientist that helped me like forget all the traumatic memories. Obviously, this um ex-colleague in Tokyo. There's a porn star that I met in Lombok, where we did um mushroom psychedelics together. Do I know her?

SPEAKER_03 44:19

You've had a lot of experiences since this breakup.

SPEAKER_02 44:22

I think I was just trying to like find myself again. So I was being very open on like what universe psych uh showed me. Uh, and and that kind of led to the book. I like it. Mira, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 44:35

Thank you. So oh, yeah, I'm in trouble. I've gone too long. I love it though.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Thank you so much. And I it's 7:30 your time. Have a great day. Um, thank you for waking up and joining us.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

Thank you, and thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 44:46

Thank you so much. See you. Come back and tell us another story. Bye, bye, Mira. Uh oh, we went super long, but I don't care about it.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

But it was it was interesting for sure.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

That's a great story.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

I want to go to I'm gonna get the book, I think.

SPEAKER_03 45:02

I'm definitely gonna get the book. Have you ever seen a metal cage in a bar before? Have you been to a bar where there's like metal cages like that?

SPEAKER_01 45:07

I'm like a go-go bar, but it wasn't like it was just like a go-go bar. It wasn't like a bondage bar.

SPEAKER_03 45:12

It wasn't a Dominix coming out and everything. I've never been to a bar where the women of the bar say, hey, come back in the back. We've got outfits for you. I was worried, like, if it's leather and they're sweaty, like, I don't know if I want to wear someone else's leather. But at the same time, I liked, I did, I've never experienced that. That was amazing. I'd love to do that.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

They were actually ruling the place. Like in the beginning, I was I felt like in some other countries, like the women would felt would be feeling like you know, they're degraded, or let's say they're the object of the men. But uh here I was like, no, that all these men worship them, and you know and then they were they were setting clear rules, like you're not allowed to touch other, you know, you're not allowed to touch, you're not allowed to kind of interact with other people in there that's not in your so in your group and stuff like that. So it was very safe, I guess, for me. It felt very safe for me as a woman going in there.

SPEAKER_03 45:57

I'm loving that. I'm gonna get us in trouble. Why don't you get back on here, Mira? So so Jackie, I I have a staying here with Mira.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

So Jackie, actually, I was I went on a date with somebody and I didn't know they were a dominant to make money, and she had a I went back to her place and she showed me the whole room that was attached to her back room.

SPEAKER_04 46:21

What did it look like?

SPEAKER_01 46:23

It was dark, it was black, it had chains, it had a swing. I didn't, I I might have just been in shock because the biggest the biggest takeaway, the biggest takeaway was that her sheets were grimy and dirty. That was the biggest takeaway of the evening.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

That is uncomfortable. That's something we should work on.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

All right, so this is a wrap. Great show.

SPEAKER_03 46:47

Um thank you.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

If you want to be if you want to be on the show, anybody else out there, it's the two deans at gmail.com. Uh find us on social media.

SPEAKER_03 46:56

Um, you can send us a text on the uh downloads right when you listen to it. And then also the Dean and Dawes podcast at gmail.com, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Correct. And thanks everybody for thanks everybody. Thanks for listening. Bye-bye.