Prosecuting the Collapse of American Trust with Chip Webster

The evidence is undeniable. In 1964, 77% of Americans trusted their government. Today, that number has collapsed to a catastrophic 17%. This isn't a political problem; it's a systemic failure.

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In this urgent conversation, I sit down with author and civic leader Chip Webster to prosecute the case against a nation that has lost its way. We dissect the "gradual, then sudden" bankruptcy of our democracy, why we no longer trust our institutions or each other, and the root cause of our crisis of disconnection.

Then, we unveil the radical solution: a sweeping proposal for universal national service designed to rebuild our social fabric from the ground up. This isn't just another interview. It's the blueprint for a national reset.

Learn more about Chip Webster's work:
https://www.unityandservice.org/

Chapters:
(00:00) - The Question We Can No Longer Ignore
(01:00) - The 60-Year Collapse: The Damning Evidence
(05:00) - The Hemingway Prophecy: How Democracies Go Bankrupt
(10:30) - The Radical Plan: One Year of National Service
(19:00) - The Real Sickness: Our Crisis of Connection
(32:00) - The Path Forward: Rebuilding the American Citizen

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

One question for everybody. Do Americans still believe they owe anything to each other at all? Because right now we don't trust the government, we don't trust the media, and half the time anymore, we don't trust each other. Well, that's where my guest comes in. He's a great guy. I've been talking to him for a little bit now. His name's Chip Webster. He runs Unity and Service, if I'm saying that correctly. And it's a great organization. They seem to have some good things going for them. And Chip wanted to come on here and tell everybody about it. Chip, thanks for coming on the show. Introduce yourself to everybody.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Joe, I'm really looking forward to this. And currently I have three nonprofits I work with. Unity and Service is a result of my book, unityandservice.org. You can look us up. It's relatively new and we're trying to get some traction. The whole idea of it is for us to break down these barriers, turn off the TV, turn off the video games, go volunteer. That'll break down the barrier. I'm chairman of the board of Tampa Bay Watch, which is a nonprofit. And then I start a nonprofit for a very small group of people from around the world called Keepers of the Flame, where I people come in from all over the world to meet in Boulder, Colorado, every year. It's around our 23rd year. My background is, I guess, the last thing I did that's important is I ran Vistage Florida, which is putting together CEO peer groups. So I've had a checkered career from publishing phone books to selling vending machines to working at Sears selling Winnie the Pooh. So especially the Pooh gun ride.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

No, that's what I mean, Winnie the Pooh. Man, I haven't heard that in a hot minute. So going into it, you know, because this isn't a small idea. Some of the things shocked my this is a complete reset of what it means to be a citizen. Yes. It's a complete reset. There's no soft version per se of this. What did you see in the country that made you say that this is broken and we need something drastic?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Well, I've been an observer of behavior since I got out of college, even in college. I just always enjoy watching and listening and observing. And there's just been this deterioration of trust and this getting into silos. And when COVID came, it got worse. And my wife and I had a boat, and I said, she stopped working. She was a cardiologist, but she hasn't been a compromise, so she couldn't go in the hospital. She'd catch something. And I was running a peer group, and I said, Well, let's sell the boat and get an RV. And we have kids in Seattle, San Diego, Philadelphia, St. Louis, and then a son here in St. Pete. So we take six months of the year and do a loop. And we did it five times. I'd been to every state but North Dakota. I made it to North Dakota, which was fun. A great state. Everybody, you know, out of North Dakota. It's beautiful, you know, the bankway. But I observed each state is a little bit different culturally. And most of the states, the trash along the highway is disgusting. You'd see when in California there was a sign, $1,000 fine for littering, and literally the trash was piled up just under the sign. And in the RV parks, you'd start talking to people about, you know, what are your tires and what RV park have you been to? But where it would drift into many times what's going on in the country. And nobody was happy. They were all unhappy. And uh then I'd say, well, it's our fault. And they'd look at me like I had two heads. It is our fault. Democracy is a do-it-to-ourselves project. We're responsible. And uh there's this, I think the fundamental challenge I'm trying to address is the is that this is our country. We own it, we tolerate what we get. So that was the first thing. And then observing these incredible devised by all the different news outlets, I try to get to all of them. And it's like they tell us to orient, it's like, wait a minute, they're talking about this, but you know, they were the facts. You know, you literally triangulate and figure out, okay, this news is or this is probably the truth, as much as we can get it. And I just saw this deterioration. I did a little research in 1964. 77% of the people trusted the government to do the right thing. In 2025, it's 17%. Joe, you and I would fire or executed if we were running a business or a country like that. Yes, we would. And we are going bankrupt literally, financially, as a nation, and we're going bankrupt morally as a nation from the standpoint of us taking responsibility for our country. And so I started writing some essays and doing things and thinking about it, and I put out much to the shock of my English teacher in Palm Springs, California, in the 11th grade, who discovered that I wasn't a very good writer. So my parents would be shocked too.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

No, you know, when you're about that, and especially the fact you've done books, you've done a lot of research on it. Is this a leadership failure or is this a citizen failure?

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Well, if you take the position that it's a it's a democracy and we vote for these people, it's the answer is yes to both. One, we have elected people, some of the people I say it used to be those that can't do run for political office. So these are a lot of the people in office couldn't run a McDonald's. They couldn't even do the french fries of McDonald's. And so that's part of our problem. We've made it so hard for good people to run. We've allowed people to lie about other people's backgrounds. So that's why who what a good proof I've had several friends who thought about running for office and they just go, I can't put my family through that. Well, that's that's bad. We're in that condition because we need good people to run. People who see their role as stewards for the future. When I was camping with my dad back in years ago, whenever we leave a leave a he said, we need to leave it better than we found it. Yes. That's people in in our culture in general doesn't look at the world that way. No, they don't. There's a tremendous back to the trust of the government. There's some other studies where people don't trust banks the way they used to, by about half. Banks used to be trusted about 60%, now it's like 28%. Colleges were like 70%, now it's 32%, and it goes on. So trust is the foundation of all relationships, and not trusting the government, the institutions, eventually will lead to a complete disillusionment of the country. People can don't see that, but it now there's an old saying from the book, The Sun also Rises by Hemingway. How did you go bankrupt? Gradually then suddenly. How did we lose our democracy? Gradually then suddenly. And if you study in my book, I talk about life cycles of a democracy. And Alexander Titler wrote in the mid-1500s that a democracy can only last 200 years. And you free your independence, you work, you get become ambitious, you become successful, everybody starts to get selfish, people start to blame other other people, and you lose it. And we're we're in the selfish stage right now. And Ishaq Adizus did the same thing on life cycles of a corporation. It's the same thing. I exerted Sears. When I started with Sears in college, they were two and a half times the size of a nearest competitor. They were the largest retailer in the world by far. When I went as a trainee and then ended up working in a store and then got promoted into the headquarters just before the Sears Tower was built, I uh started watching this bureaucracy. And they spent more time talking about who did to who than taking care of the customer. And when we built the Sears Tower and we moved in, we started cutting payroll in the stores. So, you know, it was taking care of the customer. And as long as we and our democracy are focused on making it better, our stewardship as a citizen, our stewardship as a politician, our stewardship as a government employee and making it better, we're okay. But now it's if you look at the different departments, when we started digging into certain departments, there's a lot of deadwood. And I will tell you, I listened to NPR, and one morning when they were going through Doge, one of the people on NPR said, Well, if they fire all the deadwood, they'll just have to hire people to replace them. I almost drove off the road laughing. But it's, you know, like just hear that right? So yeah, it's it's a and then there's this other thing going on right now. It's trust among neighbors and loneliness. There's about 12% of the people in the United States have no friends. No close friends. 30% uh have a few, but don't really trust their neighbors. It it's just uh take it as last year I recommend people look at. So this is it's dysfunctional.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

It is. I mean, the the dysfunctions gone right now is just it's next, it's next I mean, and like Lunron, but in the government. That's that's at least how it feels from you know an outsider. It's a great analogy.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

And it did a little study of Enron. They went out, and I happened to be in an event with Ken Lay was there when this was all going on, and there was a cocktail party.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

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SPEAKER_01 9:50

He'd walk up to some people he knew and they'd all just kind of walk away from it. It's really sad to watch, but well deserved. But they, you know, they had all, you know, our our stuff. They didn't live them. No. No, if they did, I mean they sure had a way of hiding it. I did when I was active in business, I did a number of facilitations for strategic planning for companies. And one of the things that I would do, and some of them was we'd list the values and then we'd rank, how are we doing? How should we be doing? And there was a values gap for some of the countries, companies, and we'd start talking about how do we narrow it. Well, there was a value gap at Enron that nobody cared about.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

No. I mean, it was, I mean, and California is still a thumbstanding has rolling blackouts constantly. You know, so I I kind of started with that, it's never ended. Right. And it just got worse and worse, you know. But let's do a little bit of one of your one of your things that you know we were talking about earlier is you're proposing one year of required national surge. You know, that word America, required is like well, that's what I call it universal. No. Universal surge, you know. So explain it.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

What what does that actually look like to people? First of all, uh, right now, if you study our our divisiveness, because we don't spend time with people who think differently than we do.

unknown 11:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Or have a different background. When you looked at what the CCC, the civilian that was created in 1932 or 33 by FDR, as a result of the Depression and putting people to work, but they built national parks, they built dams, local jobs. Yeah, the WPA, which was part of that same program. My wife is from Alexandria, Minnesota, and we were up there in one of our loops in our RV. And here's the county building, headquarters, built by the WPA in 1937. So there was a tremendous amount of infrastructure. When we were in Caldwell, Idaho, which is just west of uh Boise, there's this big reservoir that allowed the rivers to fill the reservoirs so they could farm. So all the farming in that valley was done as a result of a CCC project. There was a statue there marking that was a CC project, kind of weather-torn, and it was like dissolving. You know, it's like we all, this is a democracy. It's our country. We need to invest in it by getting the right people in office. We need to invest in it by putting a little sweat equity in it. I think I mentioned earlier nobody ever washed or rent a car. That's what the Air Force General said. And I think a lot of people think they're renting the United States. And we've got to turn that around because we will lose it.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

No, that's perfect. I mean, it's, you know, someone interview, right? I know I'll say you can't get specific because for whatever reason, I should say, I'll clear that one up. Uh what would someone actually do in that year, right? Like, is there like specific like tailored what they would do? And is it for everyone?

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Well, first of all, if you study, there's like 49 cut countries that have mandatory military service. Yes. Active. And there's another 30 or so that have it on the books, including the United States. We have the draft because still on the books, that you know, will turn it on think they need to in national prices. Where in the countries where they have exceptions, like in Israel, which is famous for its citizens serving, the ultra-orthodox ultra-orthodox Jews don't have to serve. In South Korea, where it's mandatory for all males, unless you're an Olympic gold medal winner or some kind of a star, you don't have to, you know, famous person, you don't have to do it. Well, that causes the kind of division that we got out as a result of Vietnam. Yes. So uh, because the rich kids and wealthy could negotiate their way out of the service, and that meant more poor people had to serve. Yeah, I never think about it like that. And so that it's it's built a division, part of our class that's going on, I think, is grounded in that. During World War II, everybody signed up. All the movie stars and pro baseball players, although pro football wasn't big then, they signed up. Ted Williams left Major League Baseball to go fight. John F. Kennedy, wealthy family. George Bush, wealthy family. They all volunteered. That didn't happen in Vietnam. No. For a lot of reasons. So I that was a long story to say why everybody needs to serve the same. And what you would do, the way I, in very broad view, graduate from high school. If you dropped out of high school, you turn 18, you go into the service, Universal National Service. The first two months would be a boot camp where you would do team building, civics, and do projects together. And one of the main elements of it is if you're in St. Pete, Florida, you do it in Detroit, Michigan. If you're in Detroit, Michigan, you do it in Denver, Colorado. So get people out of their ruts and get to see a bigger view of the world. And then during that period of time, you would work on projects like recycling all the things along the highway that need to be picked up. So you get some pride. You'd work on different kinds of projects. And then after that, depending on what your choices were and what's available, you might work volunteering in a hospital, you might work teaching kids how to read, you might work building habitat for humanity kinds of homes. You might work preparing the roads. You know, I I worry about construction companies say, Well, you're going to get rid of our juggle, too. I've driven all over this country. I can tell you that the roads are terrible. And guess what? You're not doing it. Somebody needs to. And building dams and rebuilding the parks. So it's it's getting out and working together is different than you. And we know that in countries that have mandatory military service, we're not asking for that, when they do what I just described in terms of mixing people up, that makes a stronger society. Seven of the happiest countries in the world, according to surveys, five of them have mandatory service. And the and the one of the another one they just haven't been using it. I did not know that part. Right. So there it's breaking down barriers. It's you know, we jump to each other, it was each other. Yes, over another. If you're a Republican, the Democrats, if you're if you're a Democrat, the Republicans are sitting on my board at Tampa Bay Watch, which is an incredible organization, restores shoreline and educates kids about the bay. And we've done a wonderful job of helping clean the bay. The board's very diverse politically. And one of my board members, and I say my R board members, I'm just a volunteer, said, you know, it's really nice to be in a people you know vote differently than you do, but we're part of something bigger than ourselves. And that's I think that would be part of the education with these kids and doing the work.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

We're making our country better for all of us. Well, I mean, you know, what would be your because you're going to be some conservatives that are going to, oh, I hate this or that. Sure. You know, what's your arguments? What are the strongest argument you can be for the ones who push back and say, hey, we hate this idea?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Well, the first thing I'd say is tell them give me a better idea. Fair game. Fair game. If we don't do that, we'll fall apart at the seams. If only 17% of the people trust the government, that's a very dangerous place that a strong person could come in, a charismatic person could come in and convince. I mean, there's already there's already campaigns in Washington for them to split the state. They they want to join Idaho or Arizona because they don't like the government in those states.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

No, they don't.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

That's that's a that's a domino effect. So here's the um here's the bottom line. Most kids work in high school. Most kids spend a lot of time in the basement playing video games. They don't know how to interact with each other. They don't know how to work. I can guarantee you, after a year of experience, they will know how to work. They will be able to work with people different than themselves, and we'll be stronger as a nation.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

If we don't do this, it's it doesn't it doesn't look pretty. A lot of Americans realize, but a lot of European nations, even ones that Americans and conservatives will call socialist or left-wing, however you want to phrase it, most of them have mandatory military service. Yes. I mean, it it's not just this, because you know certain people this is a ultra-conservative idea or something, and it's actually you take a division in America out of it, it's a it's an idea that there's some depth support it in this country, but it's actually it's an idea that is pretty per that is widely accepted around the world.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Wrangle when he was in Congress. This is in the late peace quite several times to get a bill across the uh so you know it's it's it's it's good to start, but we had a draft in World War II. We had the Manhattan Project. To me, this is the Manhattan Project of American culture, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Yeah, I mean, because the biggest underneath because underneath this is a bigger question to me. And that's do Americans still believe they owe anything to each other anymore. Right. Well, that that's that's the question that people have to ask themselves. Do we owe anything? You know, the the what is it on the new deal, right? You know, the the deal, the social contract with the government and vice versa. It kind of feels like we we're missing that now. Right. There's no social contract.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

People think I pay my taxes, I don't have to do anything else. Right. Yeah, they don't and if if you look at volunteer and go out and work, they are they're healthier mentally and healthier physically. We know that loneliness, we know that not being part of something has a negative impact on your health. Harvard University started doing a study back in the 30s, like JFK was one of the first groups. And they said, What is longevity? What comes from longevity? And it wasn't money, it wasn't genetics, it was do they have friends? Are they part of something? Friendships being part of something is what helps keep people alive and mentally healthy.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Right. No, it does. I mean, so when when you're looking at that way to put it, so when you're looking at are people being manipulated? Because that's the reason why the friend thing really prompted me to say that, or are we choosing division subconsciously without even realizing?

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Well, I think we're allowing ourselves to be manipulated. There's not a lot of critical thinking going on. Right. Once again, if Uncle Harry tells me to vote for this candidate, then I don't even think about it. Well, it turns out this candidate, you know, has a real negative background, but we're good for that because he's part of this party. George Washington warned us in his federal address that political parties will put party ahead of nation, and that'll be our our destruction.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yes. I mean 1,000%. Yeah, I mean we're watching it, we're not doing anything about it. No, I mean, and and you know, and this is where people like you're not just blaming Washington, you know. It's on the responsibility of us to set just the political leaders in DC. No, it's the government. We have the government we deserve. Right. I mean, we we've we keep voting for them, and yes, the people they go, well, I know that some of these politicians are bad or this or that, but I'm voting for them anyways. And you're going, okay, you know, it's just like when I tell us he hated something that much, why would I do it? That's the question.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Well, a couple data points. Only 59 to 60 plus percent elect the president every four years. Less than right around 40 percent elect Congress every two years. In the local elections, it's in the 20 percent.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

I did not even realize that.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

So the other the other thing to realize is a lot of people think I pay my taxes and that's all I have to do. And no, get off your butt, turn off your TV. We spend so much time while I mean, I love sports. Okay. All right, me too. I love to work. But more important, my Drake Bulldog basketball team, is my citizenship, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

No, I mean it's the ironic part you said that you'd have we turned citizenship into entertainment. You know, people don't really participate anymore like you're thinking, all you gotta do is pay his taxes, you know. They react, they argue, they pick sides, you know. So what does being a citizen actually know? Because I mean it's it's very confusing because a lot of well, you know, the card or the ID, you know, in their political stance.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Well, it's it's a situation that um has back to Hemingway, how did you go bankrupt? You know, gradually then suddenly that is just deteriorated, it's easier to not do anything. And if my statistics are right, the revolutionary war was only fought by about a third. A third were Tories, they wanted to stay, and a third sat on the fence. Yes. So as I call 'em fence sitters. Yes. Right. So if we can if we get this movement going and Working on, I'm trying to raise money to do advertising campaigns. We can change it if people understand what's at stake and what the responsibilities are. And that's much of what I'm trying to do. If you go to my website, unionservice.org, you can see the beginnings of a movement trying to get more people involved, talking to a lot of politicians. Are you familiar with what's the organization? Not all sides. Braver Angels? If you're the Braver Angels. The name sounds familiar, but I don't think I'm too familiar with it. You should check it out. It's a group that's for years have been trying to get people to talk across the political divide, which is in your ballpark. Right. I sent in a few of them several years ago before COVID, and then wasn't too impressed because they're it was sort of one-sided, but they're still working hard. And um, former congressman and I are are working on a two percent about national service and doing the research. You realize how many people think abstractly it's a good idea, but how few people are willing to step up and support it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

I mean, it's it can seem like you know political, so because to me it's profitable.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Right. I don't know if you know this or not, but third 49 states have the essence of sore sore loser laws. So um if you run for a Republican or primary in Georgia, for example, this was very significant in Georgia a couple years ago, and you lose because the extremes only vote in the in the primaries, it's very low turnout. The nutcases vote. Not all everybody, let me make sure not everybody's a nutcase who votes, but the extremes, the percentage of people being on the extreme tends to be higher than normal citizens. So if you lose in the primary, you cannot run as an independent, even though you would be the one elected. Yeah, I mean, that's parties.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

That's parties controlling putting party ahead of I mean I'm trying to think of the best way we put this. Could it be, you know, could it be that we're more or that the loneliness, you know, because of tech too much, too much, is that creating some of these issues? Absolutely. And I don't know, it was intended that way initially.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

No, no, it's just unintended consequences. It's like um my wife and we were eating out, and uh this couple come in with a little kid and nice looking family. They sit down about a table away from us, and when they sit down, they get a little standout. The kid was probably five, pull a standout so they can have their video game, and then the two parents got on their phones talking to each other. And I thought I could see it was behind it was Deb's back.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

I thought, well, you know, they'll they'll have the food and then they'll talk me and my wife tried to make effort to do that, and you know, there's times where you know I'm technically in business, I'm supposed to be on call. But there's times where I'm like, okay, hey, you know what? As long as the burning, the phone goes face down. If I'm at dinner, the phone is face down now, you know, and I have it on vibrate. So if it is an emergency, I can kind of get I it can but outside of that, if somebody gives me a generic message, this or that, I don't see it, and that made our marriage a little bit better. Sure, you know, I was able to find out, you know, have more in common, but I think, you know, I'm not just that, and they're just not a 16-year-old. I want to put my foot up his, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

I did I did something with my two women considered doing uh when they were like eight. I started doing a one-on-one separate from them. The beginning was going to Disney World, or you know, now we go out and we drive Ferraris. My son and one of my we like to go to sporting events, we go to Nebraska's Iowa football game or Duke basketball and and just have a great weekend. And I divorced about 12 years ago. And going through that divorce, because of what I built, the kids were then in their 20s, had a much easier time, and we've stayed much closer than a lot of people I know that go through that. So it's that's it's that one-on-one time, which is viable.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Oh, it is, it is because you don't there's nothing like with someone, especially your your child, you know, one-on-one. There's and it was telling my son, I said, you know, there's nothing like when I was growing up, and it's not that like okay, back in my day type thing, but it's more of about you learn that when you're with a bunch of buddies, and then you got guys that are their friends, but not your friends, and you learn to get to develop, like I was saying before, so that gut instinct by facial expressions, and certain words are said, they go like this. And I don't know if it's just because I I try to be very observant and analytical, but you know, when you would see somebody go, um, how guys go and they go, Well, you already know that guy's got an issue with what you just said, and you learn those instincts that the internet doesn't allow you to develop.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

No, no, and that's one of the reasons why by connecting, so it's making it worse. And what's interesting, we're talking about failure, I think before the call, where you know you were working and you could see wrong and you learn from that. Unfortunately, with this technology that we're getting more and more separated, people who are separated don't know how to make a friend. If you need a friend, it's too late to get one. You have to consciously say, I'm going to build a group of friends, and you use your gut to determine who those are.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

And it's difficult now because I mean the internet has taught a lot of these, so fake, if you want to call it that, you know, and you know, and I'm an eye person you see on camera, I have the same personality off camera. It's not fake, it's not rehearsed, you know. I'm all about that connection and that, and that's especially kind of like you know, what I like to biz is it gets people back to the drawing to connect, and that's what they need. Like, they need um, I forgot there that was a reactor on YouTube, and I don't know if he still does. I had like a thousand subscribers, and when he first started the video, he would go, just a reminder, go touch the grass, and then starts playing the video. And I'm like, I see what this guy's doing, you know. And he started getting a little popular, and always started really making me think and kind of looking, you know, back in the day, I son this, I said, I view the world will never be the same way you view the world. I could, you know, my brain's always gonna be stuck in the 90s, just like his brain will always be stuck in his era. It's just how it is. The era you develop, you grow up in is that's your personality generally, but you have to be willing to try to grow. And the society we have now, and I'm not blaming anybody in particular, but it really like caps that ability because it fits you in this nice, nice, neat little box, and it goes, That's who you are, and that's what you're gonna be, and that's the end of it. And don't ever expect anything else, and then at the same time, you'll get a commercial that comes across, you can be anything you want to be, as all the rules are set up the exact opposite.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Well, I I would take exception to that. I would say you can be anything you want to be within reason, and the rules are for you to not break, but to break out from. You know, I'm dyslexic. I have uh was a horrible being in a international chair of the year for vestige. I ended up running vestige, I ended up being the boards of public companies, you know, running other nonprofits or as a member of nonprofits and volunteer, created a nonprofit. If I had let that dyslexic keep holding me back, you know, be making still making fries at McDonald's. There used to be this what your weaknesses are and work on them until they become a strength. No, find out what your strengths are and work on them until the your strengths makes the weaknesses immaterial.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

But that that is ironically because whenever I'm coaching them, I say maximize your your strengths, minimize your weaknesses. Yeah, maximize your because your weakness is always gonna be there, but if your strength outweighs it, you can help supplement it. And so it's ironic you said that because it's literally almost the same thing that I tell people because it's key. You want to you want to be good at what you're gonna do, a little bit better what you're gonna do at, right? Or find somebody you can fill in that blank. Yeah, because me when I was growing up through the manager, I'm not gonna lie, I'm I'm very you know, if there's a sign needs to put up, I'm gonna type it up. Boom, boom, boom, stop. This is a robot, we don't need fancy stars or anything. Well, then I learned that well, you know, a lot of people they want to find all this, and I'm like, well, that's not my personality. So I looked around and I'm like, ah, okay, you're good at this, you're good at this, you make it nice and pretty. And you know, you can slap that you made it bay, I came up with it, you made it applicable. You really took the idea and made it so that it could be something that could succeed. And so that's what I always try to, you know, I always and I always try to say, hey, you've got to be willing to identify people that can make up for your weakness and excel at that, because you can't do everything, you can't be there sun up to sun down, solving every single problem. So you got to find people that aren't yes men, and I always coach against the yes men, don't get yes men because they will watch the shit burning and tell you that you're doing a great job. And then next thing you know, you're getting your boss's office going, whoa, I thought I was doing great. And any boss that I've ever had, I know that I'm struggling with something. And if my boss is going, it's okay, I'm not gonna lie, I lose trust in that boss because I'm going, No, I need you to tell me you suck. Let's fix this together. Like, not saying you're they're gonna ban you, but let's together, but don't tell me what I want to hear. Tell me the truth. Yeah, the truth can put you off, it'll set your feet. Yes, and and that drives people. I know you got times precious chip. Um, you know, is there anything you want to tell your website address and everything before we close up?

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yeah, if you want to reach me, two things. One, unionservice.org is my website. Uh Unity of Service Responsible Citizenship is on it. You can buy it there. I am working on having an audio book put together, so it'll be another month or so before that gets out. But uh you know, take some time to reflect on what country do I want and how am I going to make it better?

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Right. No, and that's seriously important. You know, Chip Webster, founder of Unity and Service, coming on. Folks, if this episode made you think, don't just scroll past it, check out the links will be in the comments as well. Share it, like, subscribe, you know, all the good stuff, all the greater sees. Uh, because conversations like this are exactly what people need, and we need more of them. Thank you everybody for tuning in. My name's Joe. This is Middle Ground Mike. No left, no right. Let's just go forward and have a good night.