A New Voice

Season 2 begins with a new voice, a new chapter, and a conversation that gets real . . . fast.

Ed Grifenhagen welcomes actor, filmmaker, pastor, and brother-in-Christ Cameron “Camy” Arnett as the new co-host of Black, White, & the Red Letters. In this first episode together, Ed and Camy talk about how God brought their friendship together on the set of Overcomer, Camy’s journey from Haiti to Hollywood, his salvation story, and the moment he had to choose obedience to Jesus over a career-making opportunity.

This conversation goes deep into faith, calling, entertainment, spiritual warfare, integrity, and what it means to live as if Jesus really is who He says He is. No pretending. No churchy clichés. Just two brothers talking about real life through the words of Jesus.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Two guys, friends, brothers, pastors, Jesus freaks.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

One's Lily White and formerly a Jewish guy. Yeah, and he's still recovering from that. And the other one's a Haitian-born actor who spent many years in Hollywood.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

So yeah, I'm thinking this ought to go well.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Yeah. I'm coming. And I'm Ed. And every week we sit down and talk about real life.

SPEAKER_02 0:21

And we do it without turning it into a Sunday morning sermon. We're talking culture, faith, purpose, scripture. And race and truth and stuff that most people avoid.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

And we're running it all through the words of Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Dude, those red letters, they just don't play. No filter. And no pretending. No churchy cliche. We're just having real conversations about a real savior. This is Black, White, and the Red Letters. Y'all welcome to another episode of Black, White, and the Red Letters, and it's a special day because we have a new co-host, Cameron Kami Arnett. Welcome, Cami.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Hey, well, you know what? You said it right. I've said it wrong many, many times. Yeah, well, everybody else does, so it's not not a problem.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

I've said Kami a thousand times, and I know in my head that's not right. Um, but y'all welcome, uh, y'all welcome Cammy. Great guy we met in 2018. And so we're starting this new, we're starting to podcast over.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, you know, I mean, I am extremely happy to be here because I do know that uh when God begins to do something, that he has something in mind that is way beyond us, man, way beyond our our minds. We we don't even realize what he's about to actually get done with this, with this uh fellowship between the two of us, you know. So I'm I'm man, I'm grateful.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

For sure, but it's the Lord that brought us together.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Without a doubt. No doubt.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

And and you know it's funny, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

I mean, how long has it been now? You said 18? 2018. Wow. I mean, I mean how how the time goes, you know, you're living life and you're doing what you do, and before you know it, I mean, I was just thinking about just this morning, as a matter of fact, my wife and I are already on 28 years, and and you you have to know our story to realize how crazy that is. And we're 38.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

38? Oh my god. Have you you and sisters known each other that long?

SPEAKER_02 2:20

No, we we started dating in 1981, so we've been together long, even longer than that. Oh my god, are you were you shy, man?

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Did you not want to seven years popped the question? What's up? You know, I'm I'm Susan was thinking, what's waiting? What's he waiting on? That is right, that is right, I'm sure. But yeah, man, I'm I'm just happy to be here and happy that that God has put this uh thing together between us because there's so much that that has occurred already, you know, so much that we've it's almost like we've lived so many lives just in between those years, man. And um, man, and this is just like the beginning of something new and fresh, and I can't wait to see what God does.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Yeah, I think it's gonna be really cool. And it is cool that that it is the Lord that kind of orchestrated this getting together. Yeah. And I remember in 2018 because it was on the set of the movie Overcomer, and uh, I didn't know anything about any any movie stuff, but my wife was working on that film, and there was this uh blind black guy in a hospital bed.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Never left the bed, baby. No, the whole movie you didn't know. The whole movie, the whole movie, and I really thought you were blind, you know. Everybody did, and that's that's the thing about it. I mean, again, I'm I'm so grateful because the the the I I would say the greatest compliment that I got out of all that is that when we did the premiere, uh this lady walks up to my wife and I, and she goes, Oh my god, the Kendrick. I'm I'm thinking, you know, I'm watching the movie and I'm thinking, man, the Kendrick brothers just are so awesome. They found a black that they they found a blind guy to to play the role in this and this and that. And I walk up to you, and you're not blind. And she works with the blind. So, you know, to to to to be able to bring that across where someone who is actually a practitioner of working with blind people, and for her to think that I was blind, I that I you know, that's the Academy Award right there. Well, I told her that Jesus touched your eyes. Yeah, he can do that.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah. But you know, it is it is this faith journey, this walk with Jesus, this embracing of forgiveness ultimately that brought us together. Yeah. And you know, when when you sign up for when you sign up to be on the Jesus team, you you you know, you didn't really, at least I didn't, you didn't expect you know to have doubts. You didn't expect that uh that there would be loneliness or there would be suffering or there would be other stuff that life kind of throws throws on you. And you know, nobody hands you this brochure, this little flyer or something that says, Congratulations. I didn't get this thing, it didn't say congratulations, Ed. You're now enrolled in a lifelong wrestling match with invisible enemies, torment inside, and deep pain. Hope you like spiritual warfare. Like you didn't get that, did you?

SPEAKER_00 5:12

No, it didn't come at me at all. You know, as a matter of fact, you know, when you take take a look at what happens in your life, you don't even know that you're going through the process that God has already orchestrated for you. You know, when I was in Hollywood, man, I, you know, I had gotten to the point where, you know, you you're you're you're acting and everything else, and you get to the point where people start knowing who you are, calling for you, writing for you, that kind of thing. And I am in Toronto, Canada. And when is this? This is wow, man.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

This is like in the 90s, early 90s, I guess. Okay. I was way lost back then.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I I I at that point in time, I had I had really become a bona fide Christian. You know, I had gone through the process. I went, I had when I got saved, I got saved as a matter of fact, going to a competition. I was a pre-med pre-law student in college. And I the you at the you at the you, baby. At the you, you know. He just gave me the sign, and y'all can't see it. At the you, right. So I'm at the you, and and I'm a pre-med pre-law student. My my trajectory was supposed to be uh becoming a doctor. I was going after cardiology and all that kind of stuff. And the the secondary was law, which I think I would have been a better lawyer, to be honest with you, now that I see who who who God has made me to be. You know what I'm saying? And so I I really do have an affinity for law. But at the same time, so I entered this uh competition. I'm I'm working at at Jackson Memorial Hospital and I'm doing EKG respiratory therapy, doing all that stuff, you know, uh on the trek. And I wanted to do something fun for the summer. So I entered this competition and I ended up winning it for acting, models, wanted, that kind of stuff. And entered about maybe uh nine or ten after that and won eight out of ten or whatever, that kind of thing. But in that first one, is God has a sense of humor, man. Not only did he give me a trajectory that changed the course of my life as far as what I'm doing now, but that's also when he saved me. And this was in 1980. So you were in college when you was in college. Yeah, okay. Oh, yeah, oh yeah, I was in college. And so I'm, you know, I go and I enter this competition and I'm doing my thing, you know, doing the acting, blah, blah. And I've never done anything like that before. And so this girl who was uh born again saved, she convinces me to get on a stage with her and to sing this song, and she retitled it, Jesus, don't you know it's with you? I'm born again. I'm like, what? I don't sing, I don't do none of that. And I and I don't, I definitely don't know no Jesus. You know what I'm saying? You know, you know, you we all knew of Jesus. Oh, you know, everybody knew the the name that you know that you run away from. But, you know, so she convinces me. So I get on the stage and I sing this song, blah, blah, blah, blah. And this girl is lit for Jesus, right? And gives me on the on the trek to salvation. And so the only person that I knew that was saved was a fraternity brother of mine in college. I say, hey man, uh Jesus. I mean, I heard about Jesus, blah, blah. Talk to me. And I get saved, but he he took me to a church that taught me how to get saved every Sunday. So now I had a conscience because salvation took. I mean, I was born again, I love Jesus, and and so salvation took, but I didn't know how to live for Jesus. And so every Sunday I would get saved, and Monday through Friday I'd be the sinner that I was.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

That makes you well, I don't know. That would make me a walking bundle of anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Dude, I was dying for five years. I had a conscience, I knew this word was right, I knew that there was a change, but I didn't know how to live the change. And I was still living as the old me in this new frame, and I was dying. You talk about painful and drudgery and and don't know right from left. It was crazy. So five years happens, and uh one day, I don't know what it was, um, I uh ended up going, and this was this was in in in uh uh in uh coconut grove, uh Miami. And so, not Coconut Grove, Carl Gables, I'm sorry, Carl Gables, Miami, and and so I'm over there in college, and and all this stuff happens within those five years, and I end up at some point coming through Atlanta for about a year, I think I came through Atlanta, and then ended up in New York, and that's a whole uh look, I'm trying to make a long story short, I'm telling you right now, okay? And so I end up in New York, I'm just dealing with a salvation story, and so I end up in New York, and I was a part of this group called Models for Christ, and this guy showed up, Jews for Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

All right, yeah, messianic Jew shows up and preaches that night at Models for Christ, and the Holy Spirit grabbed me from within my chest, and life has never been the same.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Do you think that was really the the moment that you really were born again, that you really got saved?

SPEAKER_00 10:16

I I I no, I don't think so. I think that's the moment that I became converted. Because I'll I'll tell you why, because that pain that happened in those five years, that was real. And it was because I had this this new person that I had become on the inside of me. I wanted the that word that I read. I I wanted to be like this guy that I was reading after. I wanted to be like these people. I I I loved it. I it it it it it convinced me that that's the life to have. I just didn't know how to obey it, didn't know how to follow it. I wasn't taught. Sure. Okay, and so there was no discipleship going on. None. Never never even knew the word discipleship in those five years, okay? Let alone go through it. And so, but when I got to New York and and and he spoke and he uh the Holy Spirit hit me, man. And I don't know how that this happened again. I'm again trying to make the long story short. I from New York, I end up getting Miami Vice after I had left New York. And I go back to my to Miami You were in Miami Vice? Yeah, the TV show.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah, did you have the cool white blazer and no shirt on underneath it?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

No, I I wasn't of that age yet. Okay, so I'm this young cat, uh uh uh uh, you know, in my early 20s. So I'm over here in um in my doing Miami Vice, but by that, like I said, I had come from New York, I'm I'm converted, I'm on fire for Jesus, telling everybody about Jesus Christ and everything else. And so I go to Miami and I'm staying with my mom because she lives there, and she introduced me to a ministry out of California in California, and she told me about the Holy Spirit. And while I'm in Miami, I'm doing Miami Vice, and I'm coming home and staying with her in the afternoon and evenings. Um, I'm listening to this guy talk to me from the TV, and one day he started ministering on the Holy Spirit. And you know, it's like I'm on the bed, my my back is to the television, I'm just listening, and then he starts talking about the Holy Spirit. So I turn around and he leaves people to receive the Holy Spirit. And on my on that cot at my mother's house, while I'm doing Miami Vice, this guy leads me and receiving the Holy Spirit. And then that again was another part of just like God just grabbed me. And when I by the time that I went back to New York, man, it was all Jesus. And from that point on, all everything that I thought about did, uh, found a small church that uh was teaching and and and raising people up, and you know, a shout out to Unbroken Chain. And um And this is in New York in New York City, in Manhattan.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

So in Manhattan.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

In Manhattan, exactly. As a matter of fact, we used to meet at the Port Authority. There was a uh a uh uh space that we rented right out of the Port Authority, and so we were like right in the middle of it on 42nd Street, you know what I'm saying? And so we saw all kind of miracles. That's why I fell in love with miracles, because in New York, I I was it as part of that church, I was prayer ministry, street ministry, all kind of stuff. But on street ministry, we go out and minister on the streets of New York. And if if you look, if you listen to me and you've never been to New York, you may not really understand what I'm about to say. But the first time I went to New York, I actually thought that there was a march going on. There were so many people, I'm telling you, there were so many people. I thought there was a march. And I'm like, what in the world is going on? I mean, and I, you know, you if you've ever seen the scene where Gene Kelly gets on the light, uh the light post and singing in the rain. And uh, so I get on the light post like a movie. I'm like, where are these people coming from? It was five o'clock, man. People just leaving their their buildings to go back home. Yeah, it's not a march, it's just a Thursday. It's just Thursday. But you know, you talk about this kid that had never been to something like that, you know, not uh in my my my adult years, you know. And so uh I'm in New York doing uh street ministry, and we saw the miraculous.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

And what you know is the harvest is plentiful.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Plentiful.

SPEAKER_02 14:27

It's funny. This Sunday, that's what I'm preaching on.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Man, you know, that's what I saw. Yeah, and I fell in love with it. And I fell in love with evangelism, I fell in love with street ministry, I fell in love with seeing the miraculous, I fell in love with the life that was led by God. You you're governed by the Holy Spirit, you're hearing him on the inside, you're obeying him, you're having a life of joy and peace, and everything else starts to fall into place. But what happens is that when life starts to fall into place for the way that God intends, that means that everything about your life that you had built before has to fall out of place. And that's where the craziness happens. And so from that, from New York, I end up going to California, and you know, people thought that I had, you know, was going to California for, you know, for the filming and everything else, but really I left New York because I went to go to this ministry that I had that the guy who led me to the Holy Spirit, Frederick Price, right? Led me to the Holy Spirit uh on that cot. I want to go to his ministry. So I went from New York to California to go to his ministry. It just so happens California had the film stuff, that's what was going on. And that was what you know I did. But that was secondary to me at that point. I couldn't care less. And so I'm doing this thing, I'm getting you know, getting involved in the acting and everything else. I'm you know, uh a part of the ministry, and it's life is I'm learning faith. I'm I'm I'm a part of discipleship, I'm growing. I for the first and I'm I'm gonna say something here that people may not understand, because all my life, I had always heard that you know black men didn't live the life that they should. Black men didn't do this, and black men weren't this. Black men, I had all heard that all all my life going on.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

As if it's about the skin color.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

As as if. Yeah. But well, you know, it's like I don't want to get into that right now because that's another story. But you know, it's like, yeah, when you start really finding what's going on, man, you're talking about humanity, okay? But it the way that it's the propagation of it is, the propaganda of it is it's a black issue. And so anyway, I go to California and I'm a part of this ministry, and I'm telling you, the black men in this ministry were top-notch leaders, business leaders, pastors, leading their families, and and and uh, I mean, this was like the creme of the creme, man. I mean, I I it was beautiful. I and and and and on any given Sunday, you're sitting in this dome and you're worshiping God and the voices of five to eight thousand people at once, and it was a slice of heaven for me.

SPEAKER_02 17:05

So had you ever like how do you then about 25 or 30?

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Um no, yeah, I'm about uh about 30, about 30 at the time.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

So had you in that first 25 or 30 years, had you experienced black men being leaders like that? Like in your life, had you really experienced that.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

I had experienced black men being leaders of their family, but not necessarily black men that had that were that and also leaders of of society, if you would. You know what I'm saying? Because these guys were, I mean, they were corporate guys, they were like, they were they were big business guys. I mean, every every arena, we talk about career, every arena, every career in which you can think of, these guys were guys that were leading it and making the big dollars and living the life, but but living the life for Jesus. They were on fire for God. These were not people that were, you know, top-heavy on making money and careers. These were people that were living for Jesus in such a way, and yet, because of that, and and in spite of that, people might say, living a life that was just over the top in the ability to be examples to society. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Oh, it was fabulous. And so, and I think what happened too with the the ministry that was going on before, these are all young cats, but all of them, you know, oddly enough, were leaders in the entertainment realm. I mean, these guys were on Broadway, and you know, as a matter of fact, when when when when um before I even got to the church, I watched, I was watching Entertainment Tonight one night. This was I'm still in Miami, you know, freshly within this whole entertainment thing. I'm I'm I'm watching Entertainment Tonight, and I see this guy. He had won, he had just won a Tony Award, and he's on the back of the limousine. They're interviewing him, right? He's in the back of the limousine with the Bible open. He's preaching on entertainment tonight. Really? And I'm like, oh man, that's that's what I want to do. You know what I'm saying? And I and and I go to I go to New York, go to this church, and this guy is one of my elders. The guy that you saw on Internet, that's cool. You know what I'm saying? And so this is so I they now that I'm thinking about it, they were leaders in a different realm, you know, because they were leaders in the realm in which I'm in now, you know, and I didn't think of that as leadership, you know, because again, propaganda, you think corporate politics, yeah, that's leadership. But you don't you don't think the mountain of entertainment uh and yet those are probably some of the biggest leaders we've got because they speak into the lives of people on a regular basis. We don't think about it that way, but they actually cause people to believe and to think a certain way, and because of the the platforms that they have, they're basically propagating uh a theology or a non-theology or liology, whatever you want to call it, right, to the world, but we don't think of them as leaders, but they are leaders. You know, we may not like it, but they are leaders, and we have to that's why it's so important to overtake and and do what we we do now is overtaking that that that atmosphere of entertainment and and and film and all that kind of stuff, because it's programming the hearts and the minds and the souls of men.

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Yeah, because everything that we do or say, every word that comes out of our mouth, no matter what it is, it either moves people a little closer to Jesus or a little further away.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

So you wield a whether you know it or not, or like it or not, or want to or not, you wield a pretty powerful sword.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

It's a pretty powerful sword. You know, you're bringing, you're speaking faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God, but faith comes by hearing by whatever uh word you hear. And so, because that's just God's system. And so we are in a in a in a in a um atmosphere and place and and and um uh career and whatever that really governs a whole lot of what people hear. All right, but anyway, so this guy is in the back of the limousine and he's preaching out of the Bible, and I'm like, man, that's what I want to do. That's what I want, you know. And so I end up going to this small little church in New York, and all of the people there are top-notch. New York or California. New York. This is at the time. This was my my my my spin out, right? And so all these people are are top-notch Broadway, extremely talented people that had given them their lives to the Lord. Some of them were leaving uh uh uh the stage and some of them were still on as far as on Broadway, but it was it was that's what was going on. And so when I left that church and went to California, um people thought, you know, because I was one of the actors there too. And so people thought that, hey, he's going to California just to be, you know, for his acting career. But I actually went to be a part of that ministry. And so I'm at the ministry. Things are going well, blah, blah, blah. I'm doing my stuff when it comes to the acting as well. And then at this point in time, I find myself in Toronto, Canada, doing a movie of the week. Gotten a nice role in a movie of the week. And I'm shooting this movie. Amy Madigan and Dennis Muscaris, you know, all these kind of people. I'm up there in Toronto and everybody was filming. Toronto was at has has, I don't know whether it still does now, but it has a re it had a real good uh incentive program for filmmaking. And so everybody was filming in Canada. And so I'm in this this big old hotel, my this big old room. And I'm thinking to myself, well, how did I get here? It's crazy. Little kid from Haiti, man. You know what I'm saying? The national average as far as income per year was like $200 per year. And here I am in this mansion of a room. And all these stars are in and out up of the elevator. I'm going up and down the elevator and I'm running into all these stars of, you know, Jurassic Park and all this kind of stuff going on, right? And so my manager calls me and says, hey, they really want you to come in for this new uh television series. They're really high on you, and they they think you're the one for the role, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I go back to California from Toronto after I finish shooting and I audition for the role. And I ended up getting the role. And so and I'm trying not to name names, but I mean, if if if if if I were to tell you, you'd know exactly all the people that was in this room. All right. And so the fact that I got it was just again another miracle of God, but I was about to find out what God was really doing. So I got the role. Um, well-known people, love interest, the whole shebang. And I'm I'm at my manager's house, and you know, we're about to sign on the dotted line, right? We're you know, we're dancing the jig. This is what what you know what we worked for, right? And so I'm about to sign on the dotted line. So he's talking to my to my agent, and the agent says, Hey, uh, tell Cameron, by the way, they need him to do partial body nudity. Hello. Hello, and you you you you feel how we just like sat for a little while? Yeah, that that piece of news hit me hard. And it's like everything stood still for a second.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

We would call that a come to Jesus moment.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

It was a come to Jesus moment of life, brother. And I said to my manager, I said, Jeremy, I can't, I can't do that. I'm I'm a Christian, I can't do that. And he goes, Oh, well, you know, and he's telling the agent, well, you know, Cameron is, you know, blah, blah, blah. He's trying to make excuses for me. And the agent said, Well, you know, let's go talk to the producers and we'll see what will happen. So they talk to the producer. The producer says, Hey, tell Cameron he could do the acting, and then we'll give him a body double. So he doesn't have to do the the nudity part, but he'll just do the acting. And so I'm like, Yes, this is gonna work. I I go to sign again. And the Holy Spirit taps me on the shoulder and says, You have to shun the appearance of evil because people will think that it's you.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Of course. That's kind of the whole point.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

That's how it works, y'all. And I've seen it in real life where I mean, when I lived in New York, man, I I saw where all these soap stars would be, you know, pushing their baby carriages down the street and people would holler at them, how dare you do that to Jessica? How dare you do that? And hey, it's a role, man. You know, we didn't, we don't really, we're not married, you know, that kind of thing. And so people don't, they don't know the difference sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

No, that line is blurred.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Oh my God. They really they're they're walking around living their lives through these people, and they think that these people are actually living that life. And when they see them on the street, I've seen arguments, man, in New York. And this, you know, New York is crazy to begin with. And so I'm oh so I'm like, no, I can't I can't do that. So so when the Holy Spirit top me on the shoulder, I say, Well, Jeremy, I I I can't do it. You know, I I can't, you know, people think that it's me. It's not like, you know. So I lose the the role.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Um is this your agent, Jeremy, that you're talking about?

SPEAKER_00 26:07

This is my well, he was he's he was my then manager. Okay, but my agent was who he was talking to, right?

SPEAKER_02 26:12

So, what did they say to you when you said, I really no, I really can't do it?

SPEAKER_00 26:18

They dropped me, my agent. With anger? I don't know. They they did just never heard from him. That was they didn't see me to drop me, they just you're just off the list, bro. You know, you cost me money. You just oh, so now you won't do this kind of stuff? Well, you know, we'll just cut you, you they cut you off. No more soup for you. No more, no, you shall not eat. You know, that's I mean, Hollywood's insidious, man. I mean, people just don't know. I mean, the the stories you hear about Hollywood, it's only half of it. It is insane. But it's it's because it's it's the realm and the domain. Don't forget, Satan, right, when he was Lucifer in heaven, that was his domain. And people miss that. And so he was cast out. Now he's the Satan, he's now the the devil, he's a supplanter, he's the you know, accuser, he's all of that. And he sits and unenthroned upon arts and entertainment and music. And he wants to steal, kill, destroy, eat you and your family alive. I mean, spit chew you up, spit you out. Okay, and so people don't get that. When you talk about warfare, that is how that's why you you you feel the way that you do, and that's why the whole art is about uh emotions, because you're talking about the realm that God gave him in heaven in order to fulfill him being the one who brought people to to the Father, in a sense. You know what I'm saying? He's music. So your job as music is to be the melody of the word. All you do is create an atmosphere in which the word can abide and thrive. That's that was your job. And so now, but but then you wanted the worship that the word got. So now you're down here still wanting the worship. That's why when you go to these concerts and you go to these uh uh uh uh uh uh plays, everybody's clapping and and waving hands. Well, that's worship. That's all he wants. Well, you're worshiping something, you're worshiping something, whether you know it or not. You are in worship when it comes to art entertainment, when it comes to music, all of that is God's worship. And so here I am, and I'm saying to the worship team of the enemy, I can't be a part of your worship team because I belong to Jesus. Well, you know, it just didn't go over well. And so they dropped me. They dropped me, man. And uh, what year is this now? This is '96, around '96.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

And you had been in Hollywood how long?

SPEAKER_00 29:05

I'd been in Hollywood for about six or seven years at that point. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

And you're working. I was working.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Oh no, they're gonna be good.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

No, we're we we're good. The money you're about to buy the Lamborghini.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Listen, listen, let me let me know. I wasn't at the Lamborghini yet, but let me tell you, this will show you. Um when I I ended up um um and I and I and when I give my testimony, I give my testimony. I don't give uh other people's testimonies, and that's what people don't understand. I don't try to uncover anybody else. You know what I'm talking about? No, yeah. I'm not talking about anybody else. I'm talking about what happened to me and what I what I can say. And so I end up um alone in California, you know what I'm saying? And you feel like the sun is scorching you because you you're like by yourself. I'm I'm everybody left, everything left, everybody left. I let and I tell people when you start making God decisions, all hell's gonna break loose, but it's actually God unraveling all of what you put together that you thought was God, what you thought was life, so that he can give you what he really had for you to begin with. And so you have to outlast the unraveling. Okay, and so here I am in the midst of the unraveling, and the sun is scorching. I'm by myself, I don't know what to do. And so I end up selling suits, right? I'm selling suits, and one day I'm I'm I'm at after 10 months of selling suits, I look at my year to date on my check and I bust out laughing hysterically. And my coworker goes, What's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? I said, dude, this is what I've made in 10 months. I remember when I put this as a down payment on my floor. Okay, just to show you the difference. Man, you talk about crash and burn. I crashed and burned. I ended up from the big house, the Mercedes, blah, blah, blah, blah, living in the back room of a woman who was on welfare. She had allowed me to come in after I got evicted. She had allowed me to come in, sleep in her back room where she had some boys that had left the house. And so I she let me stay in there in their old room. I had my desk, I had my books, and I had a couch. That was all I had left to my name.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

And so you literally could not get uh uh an acting job. Oh no, I was done. You were blackballed, blacklisted, whatever the word is.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yeah, yeah. Well, I was I was blackballed from that from that um um from that agency for sure. And it was one of the top five. Okay, I had gotten I that's I had gotten to the top five, man. I'm I'm I'm you know, I was I was the next I was the next guy. Yeah. Okay. And so um, yeah, so I'm ended up in in in uh and then from that from the from the you know, God, it's so funny. Cause I um I'm that happened at the at the uh suit store, and the Holy Spirit said, if you really believe in me, quit your job and go work. Or go uh uh attend this little small church. It was a little small church. So I go to a little small church. I went I went from being a congregant to a uh um on the praise team, which I don't sing, uh, prayer team, uh youth pastor, associate pastor. I I matriculated through that. Still in California? Still in California. I mean, acting was over. It was I was it was done. And so this I was now what they were what they had promised me was that I was gonna be under the tutelage of the pastor for about two years, and then they will plant me in Miami. Um we're supposed to be planting a church in Miami, and um, but that didn't happen. All right. Basically, I they they allowed me to um to have a Bible study on Monday nights, and people started to live, the church started to live. It was it was a dying little church, and the church started to live, people started to live, and then um, like I said, I was a youth pastor, and as a youth pastor, um um I had an assistant who was a white guy who actually lived in a trailer park. And so he was on fire, man. We were on fire, we're on fire together, right? And so we go evangelizing everywhere. That's what I learned in New York, man. Let's go, let's hit the street, let's do it. And so I'm out in the street, we're out in the street, you know, we enjoy enjoying ourselves, and we ended up in the trailer park around where he lived, and all those people started to come to the church. And of course, they were uh of a different you than the people of the church, because it was a white church, and all these little black kids are coming to be part. When I got when I got the youth the youth of ministry, it was two white girls, and then we grew. You know, we just grew, but we grew out of people that we would evangelize, and a lot of them were coming from the trailer park, and these little black kids were coming in on fire for Jesus, and and then we'll we're rocking, man, and and the thing, and and the pastor said that's we don't want those people. That's not what we expect. Because of course now the parents were coming to church. That's not what they had expected.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

They would be more comfortable somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

They would be more comfortable elsewhere, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

That's not what you know. That would be a lie from the pit of hell.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

People getting saved, people, people are, you know, uh, people getting filled with the Holy Spirit, and and and and that was the the perspective of this whole thing. So uh obviously that didn't work out, but God had and and and and see again, that is the whole Christ over career. When I when I sowed that seed or left that career in California for the sake of Christ Jesus, when I turned my back on what the world wanted to give me, I didn't know that I was sowing a seed. But all these years later, you know, my wife and I, you know, BJ and I, we're over here, we're pastoring for about almost two decades, blah, blah, and God brings us, brings us back supernaturally into the realm of film and television. And it's been massive ever since. What he has done supernaturally, because you know, when he brought me back in, I didn't want to come back in. I thought all I had in my mind was Hollywood. And so I said, Lord, you know, you know who I am, you know what this did to me before, you know what happened before. I don't I don't want no parts of it. If if it's really you, give me what you want without me having to audition because I will not chase any of this.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

And now you're living in Atlanta.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Now I'm in Atlanta.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

You know, and and and I'm I'm I make that prayer after I get the first role that he told me to go. Which is when? Which is who I can't do. Uh 2013. Okay. 2013 was when I when God brought us back in. And I I uh he had he showed me through these dreams that he wanted to go. I I did I thought he wanted me to write the the role that I was seeing in my head. I start every day I'm writing this character and everything's happening. And um at the end of those two weeks, and I'm again I'm cutting it short. At the end of those two weeks, um God said, It's me, go to the audition, and I hate auditioning with a passion. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. It's a broken system in California. People are it's a broken system, it's a lie. And so as an apostle, prophet, and teacher, which is who I really am, I always wanted to correct the system. And that didn't work. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 36:38

I'm sure they would look at you.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

They would look at me like, what are you what dude? Who are you? Exactly. That's exactly what would happen. Okay, because somebody would have something would happen in in in the midst of an audition, and I'd switch hats. What why did you do that to her? You can't say that to somebody like I'm over here, and you know, casting directors didn't like that much, you know. But anyway, so I'm I'm I'm I'm um, you know, we're here and and and and I'm I think God wants me to write this thing, and I and I and I finally he says at the end of the two weeks, go, it's me and our audition. And the role that I auditioned for was actually the role that he was showing me in my dream and that I was writing. Exact same role. And so that's when he made me know no, that's this this is this is me. And so I got the role, man. People loved what I did, everything was great. Uh, it's called Stand Your Ground. I played a lawyer. And um, from that point on, that's when I said, Lord, you know, if it's you, you gotta give me what you want because you know who I am, you know what this will do to me. I will not, I I will not chase it. Give me what you want without me having to audition.

SPEAKER_02 37:40

So you're not going uh you're not going uh once a week, twice a week, and auditioning for seven million different things. No, you're just like, Lord, you gotta do it.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

No, exactly. Yeah, if you don't do it, it's not gonna get done. Because I I know me. If you don't do it, it's not gonna get done because I it has the potential. Because number one, it's what you put in me, but it has the potential to steal your life, and it still has that potential, and so I still am before God 24-7, making sure that I'm still doing it his way for him at every turn, because it it is it is Satan's lure to put yourself above Christ. Oh, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Of course, and this is where he reigns. This, I mean, not he doesn't reign anymore, but this is where he he this is what he's something that he knows. He's good at what he does, he's good at what he does, dude. But Jesus is better, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

For sure. You know, and you know that if God is orchestrating it, if God is doing it and it's not you, he's not good, and he puts you in a place that's gonna steal your life.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

You know, it's very true. And you know what what I tell people too is, you know, I I I've because again, this that's stuff stuff that I I meditate on all the time because I I have to, you know, and I think man, Satan would be extremely stupid because well, you know, he's he is pretty pretty nil because he thought he could kill God, you know. So I mean, I mean you have to have some crazy stupid thoughts to think that you can kill God.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

Prideful.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Yeah, you know, you you think you're all that. Yeah. You know, so so he'd have to be very stupid to put me on a platform that everything about me and everything that I say and everything that I do is about Jesus. So if you're gonna if you're gonna give me something that's going to allow me to globally proclaim Christ and to live for him, hey man, go for it. You know, because that's all I am. I have nothing else. You know, all I want to do is proclaim Christ, declare him, show him, exemplify him, and then go be with him.

SPEAKER_02 39:44

It's like a it's an unconditional yes. Yes, it's like when the Lord told Abraham, you know, uh Abraham believed the Lord, the Lord credited him with righteousness, and he said, Go. And Abraham said, Where are we going? And the Lord said, I'll tell you when you get there. Your answer just needs to be yes. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

You know, it it's funny because you know, uh, you know, being a teacher and and everything, you know, you deal with a lot of that kind of depth within the word of God of trusting, because again, you faith is one thing, but trust is a totally different thing. And so when when when you take a look at at Peter walking on the water, you know, um, I used to deal with the fact of you know, Peter was the the um um the one who had the faith to walk out on the water with Jesus. But as I look at that scripture and I've looked at it and meditated on it and everything else, one day I woke up, man, and I'm looking at it, and the Holy Spirit says, um, it's not the faith to walk on the water. It's if it's you bid me come faith. Because whether it's water, whether it's anything else, all all all Peter wanted to know is is it you then tell me to do it.

SPEAKER_02 40:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

So it so it but we always think of it as water walking faith. But it's not you can't you can't walk on water without having, if it's you bid me come, because your water could be somewhere totally different. The question is, if you know it is God, will you do whatever he says?

SPEAKER_02 41:19

And do you believe that what you believe is really real? Is really real. It's like the the uh the guys in I think it's in Matthew 9, and uh Jesus is gonna heal them. There's a couple of blind guys and a guy that can't speak. And uh he Jesus doesn't ask them the question or questions that you kind of think he would. He asked him, Do you believe that I'm able to do it? Yeah, not right, do you believe that miracles happen? Do you believe in miracles? No, do you believe that I, Jesus, am able to do it? Yeah, and man, when the answer to that question is yes, I don't care what arena of life it is. It is exactly.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

It changes everything, it changes everything. When you know him to be who he is and you believe in him as who he is, to them who who believed on his name, right? To whoever received, they were given the right to become Son of God. So you have to believe on his name. What do we do in order to do the to to uh to do the miracles? Believe on the one whom God has sent. You know what I'm saying? So it's like the simplicity of believing on him, believing that he is who he says he is, and that he can do what he said he could do, and that he's done what he said he has done. Because now we live on the other side of that. And I think for us as Christians is that we need to live on the other side. God is not going to do anything, God has done everything, he's waiting for you to appropriate, to accept what he's done and to live and to walk out what he's done. But he ain't done doing nothing, he hasn't done anything, he's not gonna do anything else. It's it's it's and and you'll never see what he's done until you accept that it is done and you walk as if it's done. And when you see people who understand that, you see a different life being lived.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

You do, and you know, that's probably a place to land the plane. You said um if you live, I'm gonna try to quote you. You said if you live as if you know that he has done what he said he's gonna do. I don't know if I quoted that right or not. But maybe I paraphrased it. That was the message. No, remember what you just there you go. But if you but it's a big part of it, man, and y'all, y'all if you're listening with us today, um we all do need to live our lives as if it's done.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

And it was done two thousand years ago. And it was done, and the and the why behind it being done is love. He loved us enough with a sacrificial love that is so unimaginable. That he that literally became a man and literally was beaten mercilessly and died because he loves us enough. And he he knew all the struggles that you're gonna go through, that you went through. He knows and the struggles that you will go through.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Go through.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

And me too. Um and so the motive is at the end of the day, the motive is love. Um so y'all, here's the encouragement. Just keep living that way, keep living that way. So uh we thank you for being with us um today on on black, white, and the red letters. And we look forward, um, y'all give uh Kami a hand. I said it right. You said it right. I said it right. So there's a couple claps. Um, but uh we look forward to being with you next week.