Black, White, and the Red Letters
Two guys. Friends. Brothers. Pastors. Jesus freaks. One's an incredibly talented black filmmaker (Cameron Arnett). The other? A lily-white ex-Jewish dude (Ed Grifenhagen). Together, they tackle culture head-on with raw, real, unapologetic Jesus conversations . . . minus the churchy fluff.
Black, White, and the Red Letters
The Thing That Made Him Walk Away Sad
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What do you do when Jesus puts His finger on the one thing you cannot imagine letting go of?
In this episode of Black, White, & the Red Letters, Ed and Camy unpack Jesus’ startling words in Matthew 19:23–24: “With difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven.”
They walk through the story of the rich young ruler and confront the real issue: money is not evil, but it is powerful. Wealth can become a cage, a false god, and a substitute for dependence on Christ. The question is not simply, “How much do you have?” The deeper question is, “What has you?”
This conversation is about lordship, self-sufficiency, eternal riches, and the danger of choosing the lesser thing when Jesus offers us Himself. 🎙️💰✝️
#BlackWhiteAndTheRedLetters #HardSayingsOfJesus #RichYoungRuler
Two guys, friends, brothers, pastors, Jesus freaks.
SPEAKER_00One's Lily White and formerly a Jewish guy. Yeah, and he's still recovering from that. And the other one's a Haitian-born actor who spent many years in Hollywood.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, I'm thinking this oughta go well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I'm Camille. And I'm Ed. And every week we sit down and talk about real life.
SPEAKER_01And we do it without turning it into a Sunday morning sermon. We're talking culture, faith, purpose, scripture. And race and truth and the stuff that most people avoid.
SPEAKER_00And we're running it all through the words of Jesus.
SPEAKER_01Dude, those red letters, they just don't play.
SPEAKER_00No filter.
SPEAKER_01And no pretending. No churchy cliches. We're just having real conversations about a real savior. This is Black White and the Red Letters.
SPEAKER_00Welcome to Black White and the Red Letters. I am Camille Arnett. And he's Ed Griffenhagen. Oh, I think he was trying to remember his name. Okay, but it's all good. We're still in the house. We're good. You know, we have been covering um the hard sayings of Jesus, the hard things for us to understand. The red letters still, and so we know who's speaking, and we know that it's good, and we know that it's right, and we know that it's perfect. And so we don't leave uh our or take our sights off of that because that would be to just stand on the wrong foundation. And so, however, we we we take into consideration that these are some hard sayings sometimes, meaning, you know, and when I say hard, they're hard sometimes to understand, to contemplate, to really kind of meditate on and to see what is really being said in the sense of since we know who he is and we know that he is love and compassion and ripeness and holiness and everything else, then there must be some deeper meanings that are always good and beneficial for us, the hearers, because there is absolutely nothing that Jesus does that is not for the benefit of those who he has created. And so we're taking a look right now at Matthew 19, and we're reading verses 23 and 24, and it says, And Jesus said to his disciples, Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again, I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. Wow.
SPEAKER_01You know, isn't it? It's uh it's kind of crazy because and you talked about kind of in the introduction that we're talking about the hard stuff, and sometimes you mentioned that it's things that are hard to understand. Sometimes it's things they're not necessarily hard to understand, but the truth, the truth claim that is being made is just hard. Yeah, like I don't want that to be true.
SPEAKER_00We understand it, we just don't want it to be.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, yes, sir. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, this uh these couple of verses in Matthew 19, you know, they're hard because Jesus doesn't treat money as harmless.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Not that money is bad, but it is he doesn't treat it like it's harmless. He treats it as it is powerful enough to make people feel like they don't need God.
SPEAKER_00There you go. Because when you're rich, you think you're powerful. When you're rich, you think you have it all. When you're rich, nobody can tell you anything because you're the one that's dictating to other people. And so when you begin to dictate to other people out of your richness, you end up, you know, under the erroneous thought that you can dictate to God. You know, you've made yourself your own God, or at least money has fooled you into thinking that you can be your own God. And so it is with great difficulty to get someone like that that to the all appearances in front of other men, don't have to really cowtail to anybody who they'll they don't have to bow to anybody, they don't have to listen to anybody because they have all this wealth. And think of, you know, you know, I I know as I'm speaking now, think of some of the men of wealth that you've heard about, read about, or have been in the news and all these kind of things, and think about the personalities and the ways in which they move. And now to put that genie back in the bottle, if you would, is extremely difficult to tell that man that he's wrong, or that man that he should go that way, that man he shouldn't do this, but he should do that instead. That man, all of those kind of things that, and we know that you can't come to a holy God and not be corrected by a holy God because he will always put you in comparison to himself, and we fall way short of the holiness of the risen Savior. We fall way short, and so you know, the the understanding that someone who thinks that they can or have uh attained to all this wealth and power and strength, and that uh not even God can tell them something, that's difficult.
SPEAKER_01And you know, that difficult truth that commie read in in Matthew 19, those couple of verses, 23 and 4, you know, we've said this before that that things that Jesus says, um, they don't just fall out of the sky randomly into scripture. You know, they don't happen in a vacuum, they're not said in a vacuum. So verse 23, it says, and Jesus said to his disciples, well, little words like and or but tell us to look before. So when did he say this? He had just had this interaction with uh with a guy. And it's it starts in verse 16. I want to read quickly read that little passage because it it it it tees up what he says in verse 23 and 4. So in verse 16, he says, And behold, a man came up to him saying, Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life? And he Jesus said to him, Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments. He said to him, the the the young man said to him, Which ones? And Jesus said, You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your mother and father, and you shall love your neighbor as yourself. And the young man said to him, All these I've kept, but what do I still lack? And Jesus said to him, If you would be perfect, go and sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven and come and follow me. And when the young man heard this, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. What a crazy sentence. The man went away sorrowful because he had great possessions.
SPEAKER_00So obviously, the possessions that he had couldn't give him what he ultimately wanted, what he desperately wanted. And so how painful it is to have everything that men clamor after and yet still have no joy, no peace, no serenity. That to me, that's you talk about a dark soul. You know, you can't answer any of what you really need on the inside core of you, though you are lavished with everything any man would possibly want, and yet you're walking away because there's no there's no recourse. You can't, you in your mind, there's no what what am I gonna do? And I I could only imagine how painful that walk was.
SPEAKER_01And and you know, it doesn't even just say um we call this typically call this this is the rich young man. You know, that's kind of the way we refer to this part of of uh of Matthew. But it doesn't just say that he had stuff, it doesn't just say he had great possessions, it says he had morality, he had status because he says um All these things I've done. Yeah. The I hadn't killed anybody, I hadn't cheated on my wife, I hadn't stuck all that stuff. Yeah, so he was an ethical, moral guy. He had that, he had money, yes, he had status, yes, he had um quote spiritual interest, and he came asking, he really came asking Jesus the right kind of question. Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life? Of course, there's one cataclysmic error in his question, and that is what good deed, as if good deeds can cause me to have eternal life. But he asked the question, but Jesus totally exposed the thing that he couldn't let go of. And so Jesus tells him to get rid of uh your possessions, to sell your possessions, give to the poor, and follow him. And the man, and it's so crazy because the man walked off sad because he had great possessions, and sort of unwritten in that is that he could not let go of. So he was tying everything to himself.
SPEAKER_00Well, you know, I mean, his possessions had had gotten to the point where he and his possessions were one, and those possessions controlled, kept, and bottled him up from being able to have the very thing that he came and sought after, you know. So basically the possessions were a cage, you know, a keeper from the eternal life that only God could give. And he saw, was in the presence of the only one who could give him that, and he realized it. And yet still, you know, that that that false God, mammon and and and possessions and and and you know, false uh reality of your own perfection and and and your own prowess and and your goodness and all of what all those things are cages that keep you from actually receiving from the only one that can give you the very things that you're seeking. And that's what we find, and that's what's so sad about this, because we all know looking back, especially if we're saved, we all know looking back that this man walked away and will never have. That's a walking hell before you go to hell. We'll never have what he came to find. And Jesus is the only one that could give it to him.
SPEAKER_01And of course, I pray that the guy ended up. Oh, you know, scripture doesn't tell us. We don't know. No, we don't know. But uh, I'm an evangelist, and I'm like, the just if there's breath in the lungs, I'm like, there's a chance.
SPEAKER_00That's funny. You know, what's that's funny about that is that you know, when you say I'm an evangelist, we're we we speak from two different anointings. That just hit me when you said that. I'm evangelists, it's like, oh, that's that's beautiful. I love that. I love that. But see again, that's what I love about God is that he's multifaceted and he walks through each and every one in that facet. And our job is to esteem that facet in each other and to be able to receive that and be made more whole in that sense. I I love that. But yeah, so you know, he he walks away, man. So now, so why do you suppose the disciples are watching this? And of course, we, you know, we go on, and you know, the disciples are uh all in a frenzy. But what do you think these guys go through in that in hearing that, watching the walk away, watching, you know, hearing what Jesus just said, you know, having been around him and seeing him. What do you think, Ed, is actually the core of what's happening inside of them at this time?
SPEAKER_01Inside of his guys, Jesus guys? Well, what do they they ask? And and you know, I have I get mental images in my head when I'm reading the Bible, like I'm setting it up in some movie or something, I don't know. But their reaction when they heard him say again, it's and he uses this incredibly um extravagant, sort of exaggerated example because he says it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God. And people kind of mess that up too, because the the thing that he's saying there, a camel was literally the largest animal in that part of the world. And a needle is little and tiny. And the word, the the the original language, the word for needle really is a sewing needle. A lot of people want to make that a gate or something, it's really a sewing needle. So it's this absurdly exaggerated example that you're gonna cram, it would be easier for you to cram the biggest animal that any of us, Jesus is saying, any of us, biggest animal Peter you've ever seen, biggest animal John you've ever seen, you're gonna cram that through one of your wife's little sewing needles. It'd be easier for you to be able to do that than for a rich guy to enter the kingdom of heaven. And what did they say? What was their reaction? They said, and we read it all, like we don't probably read it the way it was really probably said. We read when the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished saying, Who then can be saved? You can only imagine Peter's been Peter by himself. Yeah, like who can be saved? Like if this dude can't, who can? This guy's got everything.
SPEAKER_00You know Peter lost it, right?
SPEAKER_01No doubt. You just know he did. You know he's probably the one that screamed, right? Who then can be saved? But Matthew didn't want to give him any props.
SPEAKER_00Internal struggles. That's funny.
SPEAKER_01But then you you kind of know what was going on in their mind by the fact that they said that and by what Jesus said next. With man, this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible. So all those things that this this rich guy had were all things of man. You know, he said, I mean, I've kept the law. And I know that's not a physical thing, but he's I've done this and I've done that, and I've accumulated the wealth, you know, and I've accumulated the status, and and all of those, all of those things. Uh and you just know that's what was going on their head. And Jesus took it as a huge teaching moment for his guys and said, Yeah, there's nothing, yeah, this guy did do all of those things. But my point to you, Peter, John, James, Andrew, is that you bring nothing to the table. But God brings everything to the table. Jonathan Edwards said in the early 1700s, and I've probably quoted this many times because it's just I hang on it so hard, Jonathan Edwards said, and again, this is the the 2026 Ed translation of a 400-year-old quote, he said, I bring nothing to the table of salvation except the sin that made it happen. Like that's just it's it's it's it's like Jesus is saying, but with God, you bring nothing but but I bring everything.
SPEAKER_00We're recipients, man. That's all we can do is receive from God. We bring nothing to the table, we bring nothing to the equation other than saying, Yes, Lord, you know, uh, you are Lord and I'm not. You know, you are truth and I'm not. And and so all of it is about putting the weight of everything upon Jesus Christ, our Lord, Savior, and our King. And so if, you know, this this young man, this ruler, this this rich guy, whoever, you know, he had put that weight and that measure on his own ability. He had put that weight and that measure upon his riches, he had made put that weight on on who he had esteemed and maybe those around him. You know, we spoke earlier about how how you know the friends that be that we have can instigate us into whatever, and you know, blah, we listen in the flesh. But you could have you could imagine, you know, this guy who's got it all in the world, what his friends, you know, pumped him up with. You know what I'm saying? You know, because first of all, you got your the people around you that see that they can get something from you. So they're gonna flatter you till the day is is gone, you know what I'm saying? And so at the same time, then you have other people that are puffing you up. You could imagine having quote unquote, and Jesus did not refute the fact that he did all this. And so having uh uh imagine that you have that kind of prowess, that kind of ability, and in how you've you've you've mastered the law and everything else, and then now you've amassed all these riches and and people know you and people want you, and people are, you know, all these yes men around you and that's pumping you up, and here you are coming now to Jesus that looks at all of this and y'all don't see, but Camille Camille is looking around. And like what? So you you're rich, and so you what? Let me tell you what you lack. What? You know what I'm saying? I don't lack nothing. Let me tell you what you so you're coming to someone and he's and you think you have, you think you're gonna be a feather in his cap, right? You think you're gonna you're the cast me out, you you're the one that's gonna make this ministry work. Jesus, now that I'm here, you can really make things happen. That kind of thing. Because that's the kind of hardiness that the mammon and the possessions give you, and then this guy says, uh, you lack something.
SPEAKER_01And you know, I bet you, I bet you that Jesus guys are sitting there saying, Bro, this guy can fund our ministry for the next 20 years. Well, you know, Jesus. And you just ran, yeah, and you just ran him off.
SPEAKER_00You just ran exactly. You know what I'm saying? And you know how that is. I mean, because I think, and I thank you for saying that, because I think sometimes we, because we're reading the scriptures, we don't understand these are humans in this whole perspective of things, because that's exactly what people would say today.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know what I'm saying? You here's this guy coming to the ministry. We've been believing God for this and for this and for that. We need this and this and this and that, and we can do this and this and that with all that kind of money, and you are going to run him off. I'm sure at that point in time, other disciples left him too.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because today we would have said, Man, obviously this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
SPEAKER_01I mean, what happens to the 21-year-old football player, college football player that signs a $50 million contract? He just all of a sudden got way more friends than he ever got. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00And they're out of the woodwork.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. They're coming to him.
SPEAKER_00They're coming, and so this guy is the kind of guy that we're talking about here coming to Jesus. And Jesus is saying to him that you lack something, sell all that you have, all that you think makes you who you think you are, even though you're wrong about who you are, sell all that you have, give it to the poor, and then come and follow me. What a dagger that must have been. And so, the like you said, that exaggerated perspective of it's easier for this to happen, you know, uh uh uh a camel through the eye of the needle than to get the but with man it's impossible with God all things are possible.
SPEAKER_01And you know, when he said that, you know, we were talking about Peter a minute ago. When Jesus said what Camille just said, with man, this is possible, uh impossible, but with God all things are possible, then Peter said in reply, What you talking about? We have left everything and followed you. What then will we have? And Jesus said, Truly I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. He's eternal riches. Yes, you will have eternal riches.
SPEAKER_00Yes, fix your eyes on things above, not things uh upon the earth, right? You have died, your life is ridden with or hidden with Christ in God, and so he's giving them an eternal perspective, he's giving them a a you think this is richness, you think this is magnitude, you think here's what happened, here's what this is really about, here's what you don't see. Let me let me give you a perspective of what's really going on. And I and I and I think that again, with all of us as we are reading this, that we need to contemplate that. We need to meditate on that because after it's all said and done, think about this. Think about this. As as Christ like ones, we get To spend eternity with the creator of the universe. You talk about a great reward. After all of what we think the grandness of this earth is, and blah blah blah, whatever man can kind of dangle in front of us. Following him, we get to hang out with the creator and the possessor and the provider of all good and perfect things.
SPEAKER_01For all eternity.
SPEAKER_00For all eternity. Dude, don't make the mistake of picking the lesser thing.
SPEAKER_01Now, with all of that said, we absolutely are not saying that wealth is evil. No, not at all. Wealth is dangerous. And it's dangerous because it feeds self-sufficiency. Because we are um broken human beings who fall prey to uh temptation. And one of the greatest temptations is look at me. Look at me, look at me, look what I did. Look, I'm a self-made man. I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, and now I got $500 billion or whatever it is. And so Jesus does not say in verse 23 and 4, he does not say that rich people cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. He doesn't say that. He just says it's hard.
SPEAKER_00And it's hard because riches, um, mammon presents itself as a as a ruler, as a master, and erroneously can become your master if you give yourself to it. But Jesus says you cannot serve two masters. So you have to serve one and have the other serve you. Mammon possessions are meant to serve you, the purpose, the purposes and the plans of God. The, you know, we talk about evangelism, the the blessing of other people, the coming into the kingdom, all of these things are the reason why you are to have mammon and possessions serve you, but it's it presents itself as a master. And so what we find here with the rich young ruler is that he has allowed the possessions, and I will say this because as an adamant follower of the word of God, even as he says, I've done this, I've done this, I've done that, it's God that gave him the power to get wealth. And he's allowed the wealth that God allowed him to get to become his master. And so now he won't bow that master to the true master. And that's a sad state of affairs. But God is the only one that you can give yourself to that can enable you to maintain the right relationship with the would-be master of your life and keep him the true master as your Lord and Savior and King. And so without him, it's impossible for you to wrangle this liar called Mammon and Possessions. You can't do it in your own flesh. He will take you over and do with you what he will. And that's the understanding that we need to have. And it's like Ed said, he's not saying that having the possessions is the issue, it's allowing the possessions to have you and not being able to give yourself to the Lord the way that you're supposed to.
SPEAKER_01And you know, if you if you said and you're thinking, um, well, money can solve a lot of problems. Well, yeah, money can solve a lot of problems. But when you have that mindset, you can very easily start thinking that it can solve the deepest problem. And it absolutely cannot solve the deepest problem. It can't, it it it maybe it can dull pain. Uh, maybe it can buy um, what would be the word distraction? Maybe it can buy distraction, maybe it can create options in your life, maybe it can give you some semblance of control, but it cannot save the soul.
SPEAKER_00Not at all.
SPEAKER_01And so you you you said you didn't use the word tool, but you said money can be a good tool. I could maybe even say that money is a good tool, but it is a terrible savior, and it is a sneaky God.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01And you will make it so easy to make it a God.
SPEAKER_00You know, you said sneaky, money will backdoor you, you know. You'll think that, you know, that it's you're going one way, and before you know it, you're so attached to the things that it has quote unquote done for you or even through you, because we we deal with this even from a uh from ministry perspective. You know, you can get so uh corralled or pressed by money in the money taking it, it takes money to do ministry that now money dictates to you what ministry can and cannot be done. You know, when you're dealing with Jesus going about doing good and healing all who are pressed of the devil, it wasn't because money was with him, it was because God was with him, okay? And God was doing what money can't do. And so we have to, you know, understand that the the there's a wealth of heaven, which is the Holy Spirit, which is the fruit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, that are the only thing that can unlock the true burden and and and raggedness and wretchedness of any soul. And so money can't even come close. And but we can't allow, because it gives us a semblance of power on the earth, we can't allow that to replace God. And um, that's what we find this young man in.
SPEAKER_01And you know, it is uh at least I find it interesting too, because this uh narrative, this um interaction that that Jesus has uh in in earshot and probably eyeshot of his guys, of his disciples, and the people following him, this interaction with this guy, this guy was not like some crazy rebel. Yeah. He was not rebellious, he was not shaking his fist at Jesus, he was not screaming and yelling and you're not the Messiah. You know, he wasn't doing any of that. Did he look responsible? Absolutely. Did he look moral and ethical? Absolutely he did. At least he said he kept whatever those commandments were. Did it was he respectable? I would say he was a respectable good dude. Was he a good citizen? He probably was a good citizen. He was serious, but underneath all of that, his possessions possessed him. That's right. And he just probably didn't even realize it, which is probably his, he was probably not self-aware. And so he didn't realize that that his possessions possessed him. And I would probably argue that's why he walked away sad. Because he probably thought, man, I got it all. I'm good. Jesus would be thankful to have me on this team.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_01He should be telling me how how how much gratitude he has because I came and talked to him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I'm all that. And when people are in have that kind of status, that's what takes them over. They think that, you know, they're doing you a favor by you, by even allowing you in their presence.
SPEAKER_01They're doing God a favor.
SPEAKER_00They're doing, they're doing God, you know. I mean, after all, I mean the the guys that the people that are are are maybe following you may be of a certain sort, but here I come to save the day. And that, you know, and and think about this, man. I mean, how many people in this guy's life have has ever told him that his possessions are not worth what he thinks they are? How many people do you think have ever put that mirror in front of his face whereas he is being uh told that his possessions, all of what he has attained, all the accolades, all the things that he may have achieved, actually mean nothing in regard to what is really important from a God perspective. He's being faced with someone for the first time that says to him, Go sell everything. I mean, how many people, you know, do you think walked up to him and said, you know what? Um uh I'm gonna be around you. I'm I'm I'm gonna still be your friend, I'm gonna still be, you know, your your your your strongest uh the strongest component of relationship. But why don't you go ahead and go ahead and go sell everything? That would be nobody that would be nobody except one. And that that that that one person with all of his possessions and richness and prowess, that one person. I mean, think about this too. How many rich people that are on that kind of a level do you think ever go to someone else and ask, What must I do to be saved? There has to be something about this Jesus guy, right? There's got to be something that would make you it even think that I need to go ask that question. That's deep. So even within himself, there was something in there that was leading him in the right direction. But when that option came.
SPEAKER_01But remember what he asked. And there was a little component of, yeah, man, he came, he came to Jesus, and he did come with a question. And I'd probably I'd argue probably till the cows come home that it was an honest question. But remember, he said, What do I need to do? Mm-hmm. I want eternal life. What do I need to do? Now, circle this back to um you're you're you're listening to this podcast, and you you very well may be saying, and maybe you grabbed your Bible and you read Matthew 19, those couple of verses, 23 and 4, and you said, Well, I ain't rich. I ain't rich. But the reality is compared to most of the world, and probably much, maybe most of history, we're all in the United States, we're all wealthier than we realize. And so the issue really is not how much do you have? The issue is what has you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. What has you? Yeah. So what what what has a hold of you, regardless of what other people might think is your status, what has a hold of you that is keeping you from laying it bare before the Lord and realizing there's nothing that you could possibly do or have that can merit, but all of what you can do is whatever you, whoever you are and whatever you have, to lay at his feet and ask him what it's not what can I do, but how may I receive? You know, what do you what do you what what do you have for me to to follow in order to have to be uh uh to to gain the opportunity to be with you forever. You know, there's there's there's a uh a joy that that for me is set before me, is that man, when all this is said and done, I get to see him face to face, eye to eye. I get to uh uh get that you know ecstasy of presence that I know cannot be explained. You know, I I I I I love the um um I can only imagine those those those lyrics, you know. I mean, am I gonna stand up, am I gonna kneel down, am I gonna do this? I'm gonna, you know, I'm I'm beside myself, as to the ecstasy of just being in his presence in the pureness of self, meaning that no flesh involved, you know, spirit to spirit, and being able to have that relationship the way that it was intended. That's the the the the richness that I I I keep my eyes on, you know, Ed, because I know that um that is uh God is a God of His Word, and and we find the promises of God within His Word. And if we really not only believe in Him but believe Him, then those words will empower us to be who we're supposed to be.
SPEAKER_01So, y'all, I want to leave you with a with a question. Uh, and I am thankful that you spent 30, 35 minutes with us today, and we will look forward to being back with you next week. But I want to I do want to leave you with a question to ponder, and that is this What is the thing Jesus could ask for in your life that would make you walk away sad?