Layers and Lessons: From Duck Duck Goose to Reinvention

What if the smartest move isn’t to push harder, but to taste and adjust? We sit down with Chef Ashish Alfred—known for Duck Duck Goose, his wellness advocacy, and recent turns on Bar Rescue—for a candid conversation about timing, reinvention, and the messy middle of growth. He didn’t fall into cooking for the romance; he found it because he needed structure. Culinary school introduced mise en place, and that single idea became a philosophy for life: put things in place, show up, and keep your head clear enough to do the next right thing.

We trace the arc from launching a beloved French-inspired restaurant to scaling across cities, and the subtle warnings that expansion can blur. Ashish talks openly about imposter syndrome, the urge to keep opening as proof of worth, and the point where momentum becomes noise. Then we move into the hard parts most entrepreneurs know but rarely say out loud: operating at a net loss, the weight of public scrutiny, and the emotional toll of being misunderstood. His reset is radical and simple—pack a knife roll, move to Paris, and relearn the craft in the city that shaped his palate. That season brought humility, fluency in patience, and a sharper sense of what matters.

We cover the call from Bar Rescue and why scars make for better mentors. Ashish explains how empathy lands when you’ve tasted both praise and loss, and why leaders need to pause, taste, and adjust long before the sauce goes bitter. He frames this season as layered—comforting, complex, and still building—and shares what’s next: more cooking, more travel, time with family, and a few TV ideas in development. If you’re navigating your own pivot, this story offers practical anchors: create structure, embrace discomfort, and stop sending plates you know aren’t ready.

Sometimes the smartest move is slowing down before the sauce goes bitter 🕰️🍲 Follow 👉 https://www.instagram.com/chefashishalfred/ for what’s next. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Meet Claire And Chef Ashish
• 2:27 Origin Story And Culinary School
• 6:10 Structure, Mise En Place, And Life
• 9:45 Reading Seasons And Timing
• 15:12 Building Duck Duck Goose
• 19:30 Imposter Syndrome And Pace
• 24:10 Reinvention And Embracing The Suck
• 30:00 Public Scrutiny And Resilience

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hey friends, and welcome to Mom Talk Maryland. I'm your host, Claire Duarte, founder of the Columbia Mom. And this is your spot for real conversations, local love, and a whole lot of community. Whether you're folding laundry, running errands, or hiding in your car for some peace and quiet, let's dive in. I'm so glad you're finally here. We made it happen. Or we got out of the we got out of the chat of the chat.

SPEAKER_02: 0:26

Um we've known each other for a while.

SPEAKER_00: 0:28

I know.

SPEAKER_02: 0:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 0:29

I was just telling a friend about that. Um, like, well, because we'll get into that. You know what I mean? How like I met you like just about a year ago. Um, and I forget, I was there with with Jill, but I can't remember if I was with just her or another team member. And I'd come in to Walrus to have lunch, but we were also doing like a business meeting. And I don't remember if like, I don't know, they were like, oh, let you I'll bring out the chef or he's gonna do some cool things, whatever. And I had I'd literally had never met you.

SPEAKER_02: 0:56

Well, I didn't know that Jill was even in there until I like I looked out and they told me they were like, hey, there's an influencer here. Um, do you mind like doing something special? And I was like, Yeah, sure, no problem. So I looked out because I wanted to come meet you and say hello. And then I saw that you were with Jill and I realized the world is small.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09

That's so funny. I know. And I'd been like coming in and out because I knew the manager there, um, which is so funny. But yeah, all right, sorry, I'm jumping all over the place today. I have on here Ashish Alfred, and I'm so excited that I grabbed you probably the small window that you're like in this location. So I'm thrilled. Um, because I mean you've got such a cool story, which I'm like excited to talk about. And and I was going back and forth with you, I was like, what do I want to talk about today? Like we can, you know, obviously we have like tons of moms and women that um love like tuning in and following the content, but I didn't want to just like, I don't know, talk about food. Like, I I mean, when I get on here, what I love is like getting to talk to people, like and just hear your stories. I love an origin story, you know what I mean? I've learned about your family's business, and um, I think you have such a really cool story, which is why like I'm into sort of following me because like this man is so cool, like all the shit he's doing. And but with that, with that, you know, I know you've had just like all of us, your shares of ups and downs. And it's kind of like why I sort of like went with this theme of like seasons and flavors of life, you know. Well, we'll we can so I was hoping we can kind of like shake out everything from just you know, life, business, what you're up to now. But um, but with without further ado, uh let me hand it over to you and tell us uh a little bit about yourself and your history.

SPEAKER_02: 2:26

Sure. Um, so everybody knows me for I'm Chef Sheech Alfred. Everybody knows me mainly for my restaurant, Duck Dove Goose, uh, which we had up until just a little bit over a year ago. We had three Bethesda, Baltimore, DC.

SPEAKER_00: 2:39

I've been to the DC one again years ago.

SPEAKER_02: 2:41

Yeah, yeah. Um, but then beyond that, uh, I've been on TV a little bit. Uh a little bit. Yeah. Um most recently I hosted a few episodes of Bar Rescue for John Tapper, which was a lot of fun. And uh lately I've been traveling and consulting and cooking and uh content creating and and everything around food and hospitality that I don't think doing.

SPEAKER_00: 3:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 3:05

And I'm big in the wellness space too, so we don't like mental health.

SPEAKER_00: 3:08

Yeah. Oh, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. So, okay, before we go forward, take us back. Um, like, I don't know, what made you? I'm just kind of curious going to like rural origin. Like, what made you interested or get interested in in food and cooking?

SPEAKER_02: 3:25

Sure. Um, you know, there was no, I say this all the time. I think that I was really good at it because there was no I didn't really have any airs about me when it came to cooking. Like for me, it was just it was a job. I got into it because I really sucked at everything else. Um, and I needed, being that I was from an Indian family, I needed a piece of paper that said I knew how to do something. Something that something could have been underwater basket weaving. But somebody But you were like, well, somebody smarter than me had to give me a piece of paper that I could give to my parents that said, Hey, somebody has blessed me and said I know how to do something.

SPEAKER_04: 3:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 3:59

So I get to culinary school with like no real passion for cooking, no real, you know, none of that like culinary je ne sais quoi.

SPEAKER_04: 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 4:06

Um, I I I get there and I just I fall in love with the process of like putting one foot in front of the other, like, you know, one thing after the next, having things in place, being organized. Um and and that's what kind of that's what set it off for me. It was once I got there, then I figured it out. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: 4:25

Yeah. Wait, quick question. So I I and I'm the queen of like we're gonna be, you know, doing side journeys like through this whole thing. Well, like when you said like it one foot in front of the other and being organized, were you like that prior to culinary square? Were you always like really organized and or did you realize you kind of got into that environment and you're like, this makes sense. Now I know how to execute.

SPEAKER_02: 4:46

So the letter for sure. Okay. So I had never really had that like structure. I wasn't able to do it for myself. Yeah. I couldn't organize my folder. I was the kid like whose backpack, you turn it upside down, hamster is gonna fall out along with homework from three weeks ago. Exactly. Um, so it was nice to go and almost be forced into an environment where like things just had to be a certain way.

SPEAKER_01: 5:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 5:07

And it took the the thinking out of it for me. So I had to show up to a certain place at a certain time, do what was asked of me, do exactly how much was asked of me, and and that I that was really important for me. That structure in a lot of ways saved my life.

SPEAKER_00: 5:21

Yeah. I well, okay, and I'm not gonna project onto you or make assumptions about you. I know for me, obviously a mom and stuff like that, like better for less, like mostly self-diagnosed ADD, but I have been working with my therapist for a long time. But I I fully agree. I feel like I have a lot of similarities or connection with that too, of like even starting this business. Like, I mean, yeah, sure, I've been a little bit more of like a type B person myself. Like, I need that flexibility and spontaneity in life, but um I might not be the most excellent about organizing, but I know I need it. Yeah, you know what I mean? And then I think when you're thrown into you're running your own business, you're like, oh my god, I have to. And it's crazy how you can kind of go into this world of hyper-focusing when obviously something you're passionate about, but like you realize how much all of those things are important.

SPEAKER_02: 6:07

Well, in the kitchen, especially, I mean, you won't make it through. I don't care if you're cooking at Taco Bell or free Michelin Star, wherever, you will not make it through unless you are organized. Yeah, it can so, like I said, when I said, like it really forced me to learn to like regiment my life, we call it uh in French, it's called mise en place. So to put things in place, yeah. Um, and and if it's the code by which cooks live by. Yeah, so it's like my olive oil lives in the same place, my salt, my pepper, my shallows, or whatever else. And and I fortunately was able to like extrapolate that across the rest of my life, yeah. Um, but uh yes, just agreeing with right, right.

SPEAKER_00: 6:44

No, I I agree and I love that sentiment too. And um, funny enough, I well, obviously what what you'll tell us about your recent adventure shorts like that. I took French in for what four four well, four years in high school. And I love that, and then I met my husband who's Latino, you know, so it's like I didn't use a lick of it, but you know that's again also how it goes.

SPEAKER_02: 7:03

Where's your husband from?

SPEAKER_00: 7:04

Um he was born here, but he's from his family's from Honduras. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 7:07

So my uh one of my really good friends in high school growing up, his mother was she worked at the World Bank, but she was like very high up in politics in Honduras. So back and forth all the time.

SPEAKER_00: 7:21

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 7:21

And he's now a chef there.

SPEAKER_00: 7:23

That's so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so funny. Um yeah, all those small world connections, right? Um, okay, well, this is actually kind of like the perfect segue. Oh shoot, this is where I always get stuck. I'm gonna I want to ask this question, but then I also wanted to go back to something else you said earlier. I'm gonna I'm gonna move forward with this one because we we'll keep going back and forth. So, all right, so as a chef, you intuitively understand timing, like when someone needs more heat, when to slow down, when to let flavors develop. When you look at your life and career, how have you learned to read like the timing of a season? And how do you know it's time to push, pivot, pause, before completely start over? Sure.

SPEAKER_02: 8:02

I think the most valuable lesson for a chef to learn is to taste your own food, to stop periodically and assess what you're doing. To stop periodically and just check in. And I think that the biggest mistakes I've made in my career are when I checked in and I ignored it. Or if I when the biggest successes also are like when I checked in and like things felt good. So what am I trying to say?

SPEAKER_00: 8:31

Let me back up a little bit. I'm kinda don't trust me, I'm I'm running with you. I I feel it, I hear it.

SPEAKER_02: 8:37

Um I I think that as a chef, you learn to you kind of check your work as you go, and younger chefs don't, because younger chefs they have you know a little bit of pride, a little bit of ego, and they're rushing, you know, because they're trying to figure things out. As I've gotten older and I've matured in my career and in my life, I have learned to just take a second.

unknown: 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 8:57

You know, there's an interview that I think um it's Tom Hanks that was interviewed.

SPEAKER_01: 9:03

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02: 9:03

And he goes, When things are going really good, just give it a second. When things are going really bad, just give it a second. Same thing with cooking. You know, we reduce a sauce for sometimes four hours, six hours.

SPEAKER_04: 9:17

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 9:18

If it tastes really good two hours in, probably not gonna taste that great when you've reduced it for another two or three hours to get it to where you want it to be. So it's time to start making adjustments. So, like I said, in my life, both professionally and personally, I learned to just take a second, see what's going on around me. Can I fix things? Can I make things different? What can I do to like help my outcome go on a little bit better?

unknown: 9:42

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02: 9:42

And conversely, like whenever things have gone really shitty for me, it's when like I was like, nah, I got this, hold my beer.

SPEAKER_00: 9:48

Yeah, yeah. I wow, I mean, I I mean I can very personally relate to that. I mean, personally and professionally this year with like so many, just like you said, highs and lows, right? I mean, I I think especially true in business, and obviously, like for me, like I'm a newer, younger business, you know, only being in like three years, I feel like I'm, you know, uh learning all the things, right? So I can you're right. I think for me too, like it's it's always easy to kind of like pause when things are maybe good, but I think it's in that same breath. I was also gonna say, like, like the third option was like sometimes even when you do pause and or like you said, like try your food, uh, I feel like there's been times where I'm like, hmm, I and I still ignore it.

unknown: 10:29

True.

SPEAKER_00: 10:30

Even with you're like, hmm, this could be questionable, but you keep merching. And those are the times I've realized, you know, I've made some mistakes. Um but you learn from it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 10:38

But you learn from it.

SPEAKER_00: 10:39

Yeah, no, it's so true.

SPEAKER_02: 10:40

I can say every bad decision that I've made, as a chef at least, I have I knew. And if you ask a lot of chefs too, like when something goes out of the kitchen, and then two minutes later the waiter's walking it back with their tail between their legs. As a chef, usually, if you're good, you almost always knew that you shouldn't have sent it.

SPEAKER_04: 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 11:01

Something was it was a little bit overcooked, it was a little bit oversalted, it wasn't whatever it might be. A lot of times, good chefs, they knew. They know.

SPEAKER_00: 11:08

Of course. And and and and obviously the metaphor that we're here using, it's it's not just chefs, right? Sure, sure. Like, you know, I mean, in in lessons in life and business, I mean, like the the year that we're facing this year, in with, you know, especially in our area and economics here in the DMV, it's you know, pretty rough. So, I mean, in one sense, I say we're like learning business lessons, but we're also being forced in a wild vacuum situation. So we're all having to make lots of decisions. But um, but yeah, no, I think that's so true. Um, okay, wait. Um, I'm going back to the question that I was thinking of earlier. How okay, so obviously there's a big thing, you know, we don't have to go through the whole, you know, story from like culinary school to whatever, but how did Duck Duck Goose come about? I'm just curious. I want to know about that, and then I also want to know about Bur Rescue.

SPEAKER_02: 11:55

Sure. Uh Duck Duck Goose came about, it it drew heavily on some of the restaurants that I worked in in New York City, drew heavily on the restaurants that I loved in New York City. Um, and I thought there was a market for it, and there was, yeah, I think there was a market for it here. Uh, I opened my first one in 2014. Um, and from 2014 to 2024, I had accumulated three of them.

unknown: 12:24

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 12:25

Uh so over the course of about 10 years, yeah. Um I I opened three of these things and um it was great. Uh we we got great reviews while we were open. It was a little French, they were all little French press.

SPEAKER_04: 12:36

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 12:37

Um, but they um they were wherever we opened one, it was really well reviewed, really well received. Um but kind of like we just talked about, yeah, um, I I kind of I wanted too much too fast.

SPEAKER_04: 12:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 12:52

So uh I I kept opening and kept opening and kept opening. Um and I didn't listen to myself when that little still small voice was like, hey, just slow down. Just give it a second, like let this develop. Um and because I I thought that I don't know, I it almost when I look back on it, I don't know if I thought I was running out of time or I felt like I had to I had to keep doing things to like stay relevant, or I just didn't have the ability to settle. But um, I mean, listen, you love you learn. I I worked with some of the most amazing people um I have ever met in my life. Uh I accomplished things in a really short period of time that I I never thought possible for me.

SPEAKER_01: 13:33

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 13:33

Uh and and the best part of it is is it set up a pedestal for me to go on and do other things.

SPEAKER_00: 13:38

Exactly. And and I again, I I love and can appreciate all that too, because I think, again, I feel like being on the other side of the spectrum of being like a a new young entrepreneur, like I feel the same way. It's easy to get um really excited, not just when things are good, but it's like you know, things are good and you're growing, and um like the world is seeing that. It's not that you're chasing praise because that's not what it is, but you like all of a sudden, like I know we were talking about like, I mean, I'm I'm still constantly working on that. Um, you know, that feeling of like once you maybe have, you know, maybe come over that imposter syndrome to be like, okay, now not only am I here, like I can recognize I'm here, I deserve the place, and and I'm good at it, and um, and people are receiving that and acknowledge that you're like, oh, all of a sudden you feel much more capable than before. And not that it's not a false sense of that. You're just like, wow, then so it's kind of like then then it becomes like, well, then why not? Why not, you know, keep going, keep growing? Because like, not that it's like this invincible feeling of like I can do anything, but it's just like um, only one. It's a great feeling. It's a great feeling to be like, you know, my work, I'm good at what I do, my work is um is doing well, sure. And um, you know, feels good to kind of keep creating because we're we're creatives essentially in this, you know, whether it's food, whether it's content, whether it's art, you know what I mean? Um, I think we kind of thrive off of that.

SPEAKER_02: 15:03

And I think to piggyback off what you said about imposter syndrome, I I think that for me and my career, that was that was really dangerous for me. Yeah. Because I think when as a chef, and a lot of us chefs deal with imposter syndrome, um, you know, we we pick ourselves apart worse than any critic is gonna pick us apart. So for me, I think that I I kept opening restaurants because um, one, I I really love to do it. I was good at doing it. Right. Restaurants were received really well, but I was like, you know, if I keep opening restaurants, then it'll it'll cover up the fact that maybe I'm not the best chef or maybe I'm not the best this. Right. Like I was almost looking for some sort of validation of it. Um and like I said, I mean, you live, you learn how it's right.

SPEAKER_00: 15:47

No, I mean, and that's how I feel too. Like any, like we can sit here and hash out all the you know, like mistakes that we've made along the way in business. But you know, uh a business, you know, consultant that I work with, he, you know, um, God bless him his and his patience with me too. But he was like, you know, hindsight's 2020, you know, like all we can do is make the plan and the action forward, you know, and we're just gonna learn from it. And that's okay, because at the end of the day, we and this is where, you know, to you know, pulling myself out of like any guilt and shame and stuff like that. It's like because you can't stay there, you can't be productive if you are still actively having guilt and shame upon yourself. So, you know, it's like giving myself a little bit of that grace to be like, okay, you yes, you maybe made mistakes. I think that feels like a hard word. Like you were making what you thought were the best choices or decisions at the time, even if they clearly weren't optimal.

SPEAKER_01: 16:37

Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00: 16:37

You know, in that time, in that mindset, in that situation, you know, and you know, because that's the only way we grow and move on if we can release sure.

SPEAKER_02: 16:45

And there's so much that you learn, you know, like uh anybody that would ask me, um, you know, when I yeah, I consult now, I travel now, I still cook, I'm still involved with restaurants now, you know. And if anybody said to me, Well, you know, this happened in your career and that happened to your career, I would lean in very calmly and I'd say, Do you think that makes me more or less dangerous? Do you think that I learned more from from kind of doing this? Or would I have learned more from just doing this?

SPEAKER_00: 17:12

I I don't know if you were asking me, I'm going to answer, but I know you're putting that off. I, I mean, again, obviously from my own lived experience, I absolutely think if you've gone through peaks and valleys, like you're you have the mental and emotional capacity to keep fighting. For sure. That's like because you've because if you've hit, you know, both, it's great. Anybody can feel the high, high, but if you've felt the low, low and been burned and can come out of that, to me, like, you know, whatever you do next is just gonna be and anybody who I have in my career as a chef, as an entrepreneur, anybody who I have immense respect for has been in a position that was that was awful, has has been in a position where they've lost it all, had to figure it all back out.

SPEAKER_02: 17:59

I think that the universe doesn't give you really great remarkable success unless it has seen you taste really great remarkable failure. Because how then can you appreciate it?

SPEAKER_04: 18:10

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 18:11

My father used to say, um I it was it was I was used to pick myself apart as a kid, and my father used to say, it's really hard to appreciate perfection without a little bit of imperfection.

SPEAKER_00: 18:24

Sounds like you that's that's awesome that you feel like your father could say that to you. Because I feel like that's sometimes especially if like you are the disorganized kid, I feel like we can relate to and yeah, and you know, like culturally too, which are like parents that you know we put like well and relating that these kids, you know what I mean? Like, you know, uh like do do do, right? That's kind of our our life. But I think that's like such a beautiful sentiment, and it's so true because yeah, I mean, yeah, especially in the world of of food, you know, I absolutely respect that you're not you're gonna hold yourself to relief and as you should, as you know, that's what we would hold all chefs stand to that standard, you know. Um all right, so the next one, you've lived, you know, so many different chapters from TV, opening restaurants, closing restaurants, travel, rebuilding. What has reinvention actually looked like for you, like behind the scenes? And what do you wish more um you know women understood about giving themselves permission to evolve?

SPEAKER_03: 19:22

And men, actually. I don't that's not nearly leave it to just women.

SPEAKER_02: 19:27

For me, um reinvention has wherever it's been, and for me it's something that I've done over and over and over and over and over again, and that's not a bad thing. It's not I wasn't, you know, when I had to go from chef to business owner or mentor, or go from just having one restaurant to cooking, finding a way to cook across two restaurants. Reinvention is painful, it is violent within yourself, it is lonely. Um, and I think that the reason that change or reinvention is so difficult for people is because they can't they have a really hard time embracing the suck.

SPEAKER_04: 20:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:12

You know, whether even in the gym, you know, you talk about reinvention. Right. Um most people don't have it in them to embrace the difficulty that it takes to change themselves in a physical way, in a mental way. So for me personally, reinvention has it's something that I am now very comfortable with.

SPEAKER_04: 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:33

Um but I had to be really uncomfortable being uncomfortable. There's a quote from um Maya Angelou. Um, and it's funny that you bring up women because she I don't want to get it wrong, but it's something in the tune of we celebrate the butterfly, but don't celebrate the work it takes for that transformation to happen.

SPEAKER_00: 20:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 20:56

And I and I think that it's especially true. I think it's true for men and women.

SPEAKER_00: 21:00

Oh, absolutely. It's obviously what it's celebrated and fully out there in the world when it comes to women, but obviously, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:06

I mean, when the butterfly lands on your cup of coffee or on something, it's beautiful. You know, you look at the colors, you look at whatever. Caterpillar calls up your leg and you're like, oh fuck, get off.

SPEAKER_04: 21:16

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02: 21:17

Um, and and I think that that has been very true in my life and over and over again. People, you know, they walk into the restaurant, the restaurant's beautiful, and the glassware is perfect, and the silverware is perfect, and the service is great. Well, that took a lot of blood, sweat, tears, driving to and from Home Depot, you know, selling my selling a motorcycle so that I could make payroll for that week. Um, I mean, all you name it.

SPEAKER_00: 21:42

Yeah. Well, and the other piece of that, like the butterfly in this example, like you'll always see that, but the transformation, like the cocoon, is not necessarily a visible thing that we'll see because that's kind of it's a because it naturally is going to happen behind the scenes, but it's going to happen in the dark, in the trees, in the you know, hidden away, which is where it should be. You know, it's not always because it's not always public, because it's if you're doing it right, it's inner work. Sure. It's extra, it's you know, obviously exterior work too, but it's it's mostly inner work, you know. So that's the part where we're fighting behind the scenes that no one really knows about, and that's fine. So that's why it's easy to celebrate the butterfly, because you you see it, they're they're marching around, you're like, oh, that's great. But you know, um, it it it you're right, it really is hard to celebrate that. And I mean, and even from my own experience too, it's like I still told this my therapist, like was something I went through recently, and you know, and I and it was just like you said, it was all consuming. And I hadn't felt that low in a long time. It was very bad, and I was I was hurting a lot. And um, but I did kind of go into it with a sense of like, you know what? I'm gonna fully own this. Like, you know, I own my mistakes, I own how I got here, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And kind of that ownership, allowing it to come everything to come in, obviously, A is what made it incredibly painful. It like literally felt like a thousand knives, you know what I mean? Like literally being like kind of like burned at the stake, right? But because of that, like, you know, and I I fully expected to not only burn to the ground, but I didn't expect anything else to come after very like that was it, like, you know, and then I I don't know what happens after that. And what was crazy, like, you know, within a week, like by that weekend or whatever, I was I was telling her, I was like, the relief that I felt, and I was like, I wasn't even expecting.

unknown: 23:40

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 23:41

I didn't know that that would that I would have relief. Sure. I didn't know that I would step into clarity. I just assumed that like you hit there and then you know what I mean? And I was like, I, you know, obviously the the cliche, like you know, Phoenix from the ashes kind of thing. But like I think when you like at least for me in that moment, allowing the hard in actually allowed the burn to happen. This is gonna sound kind of crazy, faster, sure, get over faster, and to recover faster.

SPEAKER_05: 24:09

Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 24:10

So actually the weeks following that were some of the most clear productive weeks I had in months. Yeah, and I was like, oh so you don't just completely fall apart. Like, I mean, yes, you do, but like there is some beauty in just letting letting like you know, when you're open to it, obviously you don't you know doing it in a safe way, like so I you know, surrounding myself with the people that I love and support, you know what I mean? Um but yeah, it's a wild thing. It's wild.

SPEAKER_02: 24:38

When I um when when it kind of all came undone for me, it was probably the darkest time I have felt uh in ever. I mean, I I went from um I people have this perception when you open businesses, you open restaurants, um uh that there is this huge pot of money. And you're we were I was just talking about this with somebody and that the person that they see on on social media is like being driven in the back of limousines and flying private and whatever and what have you. Right. Uh and they they don't often realize that if if you are your own brand and you are your own business or you run your own business, right? You're operating at a net loss almost every single day, just trying to find a way to make it happen. And then for me, what made things worse, which I didn't realize how it would affect me, but it did, was when the court of public opinion took over, and then it became um, you know, things were being said about me that I couldn't wrap my mind around. You know, I was being called a racist and and I was just the things that things that people say when you're in that situation.

SPEAKER_00: 25:57

Well, and on that public scale.

SPEAKER_02: 25:59

And on that public scale. But you know, that's why everybody's just not vote for it.

SPEAKER_03: 26:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 26:05

You know, for me, it um it was I feel like I don't know which way you mean religiously, but I am. Um and uh I feel like God kind of had to take me here and then bring me here so that he could bring me back way past here.

SPEAKER_01: 26:25

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 26:25

Um, and I think that uh it it strengthened me in a way that I didn't even know was possible. Yeah. This last year was tough, right? And I figured, you know, what's the hardest thing I can do right now? And the hardest thing I could do was pick up all my things and move to the place, um, the food of which I loved and built a career off of where I didn't speak the language. Um, so I packed up my knives and my stuff and I went to Paris. Um, and I picked up the first job I could find, uh and and decided that I was just gonna stay there for a while.

SPEAKER_00: 26:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 26:58

And it went well.

SPEAKER_00: 27:00

That's awesome. I mean, I have I know when when you were like leaving, where I was so sad, but I was like like so very happy for you because I kind of like feel it. Like I your soul literally had a calling and it was being it was being called home. A little bit, you know what I mean? And and I kind of love that for you, especially after all of that. And you know, and I'm excited to kind of see where that keeps growing and shaping you, you know what I mean? Because like, you know, um, you don't just uh well you said something earlier too that like not everybody is meant for it. And I was like looking again, I can't relate to you obviously being a chef and being in that industry, but to me, I was like, that doesn't that's not a marker that whether you can or should be in that, you know, in that ownership space or in that space again, whatsoever. It just means that like you can do it differently next time. Sure. You know what I mean? Or however, whatever that looks like for you.

SPEAKER_02: 27:50

I read something that said when you start again, you don't start from zero, you start from experience, which which is more than can be said for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00: 27:56

Yeah, exactly. Especially if you can be willing to embrace it and own it, you know what I mean? Um all right, so every chef has a flavor profile, right? Like whether it's bright, bold, comforting, simple, layered, whatever. If you think about your life through that same lens, what would you call your flavor profile of this season? I thought it sounds really cliche, but um yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 28:21

I know everybody expected me to say spicy, I'm not fixed. Um I would say layered. You know, I've had so many um that's not really a flavor profile, but I'm gonna use it anyway. That works layered. Uh, you know, I've had so many experiences, I've lived so many lives, um, and there's a lot more to keep coming. So um, you know, like good lasagna.

SPEAKER_00: 28:50

I like that because there's some comforting aspects of that.

SPEAKER_02: 28:53

Good shepherd's pie, you know, it has all the right layers to it. There's, you know, there's textural layers, there's a little bit of acid, there's a little bit of sweet, a little bit of savory. So for me, I'm just kind of I'm still building.

SPEAKER_00: 29:04

Um that's okay.

SPEAKER_02: 29:05

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00: 29:06

Right. Because like I I also feel like it's you're in a season right now, you know what I mean? Like we all are, we're all in different seasons, and sometimes, you know, and you've been through so many transitions that you kind of get to be in this really cool, like, you know, I don't know, exploration really.

SPEAKER_02: 29:21

For sure. And I think you know, the the best is definitely yet to come. I feel better than I've ever felt. Um, you know, the for as much as I love those restaurants with everything I've gave them my entire heart and soul. Yeah, um, I think I just I needed to stop a little bit for my own health. Um, you know, I didn't forget how to cook.

SPEAKER_00: 29:41

No, no, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 29:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 29:43

And uh I'm I'm just right now doing kind of whatever.

SPEAKER_00: 29:49

I love that. I love that, which is not again, not many people can say that either. You know, it's like uh so that's really cool. Okay, real quick, how did Bar Rescue come about?

SPEAKER_02: 30:00

The film rang. Uh I'm sure that there's some sort of I mean, the film rang, uh, they said, Hey, uh, we we were looking for some people to potentially host a handful of episodes. Um, we see that you know you've been you've owned your own businesses for a long time, you started them on your own, yada yada yada. Um, and we really resonate with the story. And I was pretty honest with them. I was like, guys, just so you know, things are going a little bit pear-shaped for me right now on my own end. And they said, well, then who better? You know, who better to have that perspective of what it feels like to be in that position, right? And man, that experience being able to really sort of commiserate. First of all, John Taffer is a smart, amazing, incredibly talented human being. So being able to like be in that arena was was was amazing. Um, but being able to really be able to commiserate with some of these bar owners, yeah, where I could literally feel their pain.

SPEAKER_04: 30:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 30:57

Where I'm like, listen, like I know how the stories end, you know? Um, it it really gave me a passion for the show for the crew, yeah. Um that that I wasn't expecting. We'll see what happens with me going back, but yeah, um, but but uh I I really that was a great, that was a singular experience in my life.

SPEAKER_00: 31:14

That's cool. That's so cool. So, what do you feel like is is next for you right now as you look down this next season? Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 31:25

Um I've I've got a couple things in the works right now in terms of like collaborations and partnerships. And um, for me, the most important thing is just to keep cooking. Um I feel like if you don't do it, you lose it.

SPEAKER_04: 31:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 31:37

Um, so I think uh as long as I'm cooking somewhere, I'm I'm happy.

SPEAKER_04: 31:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 31:41

Um I'm probably gonna end up doing a little bit more traveling because having the own restaurants for however many years that I did was sort of chained at the stove for a little while. No doubt. So I'm gonna take advantage of this time. My family's all getting a little bit older, so if I can spend a little bit of time with them, great. Um, I've got a couple television ideas that I'm developing right now. So we'll see how things go.

SPEAKER_00: 32:00

Oh my gosh. Well, um, we're so excited to see what you keep doing. Obviously, no, we're gonna keep staying in touch, whether you end up, you know, on this coast or wherever. Um, you know, I'm grateful to explore your story, and I'm so glad to have had you here. And frankly, there's so many good um metaphorical nuggets, if you'll say, from today that I think, I mean, again, I feel like I personally resonated with so much of that. And I'm so glad to have obviously met you and your wonderful friend. And um, I'm excited to see what happens next for you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Of course. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Mom Talk Maryland. If you loved it, leave a review, share it with a friend, or tag me at the.columbia mom on Instagram. I'd love to hear what you think. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. Until next time, keep showing up, keep supporting local, and keep being the incredible mom, woman, human that you are.