JILL WAGNER: PRACTICING THE ART OF COMPASSION

This week, I’m thrilled to sit down with my friend Jill Wagner for a heartfelt conversation about the importance of practicing compassion in our lives and the lives of others.  Besides being a successful actor and entrepreneur, she's a woman devoted to her family and she shares her journey of finding peace returning to a small-town life and what she's learned about herself along the way.

We dive into the challenges of motherhood, the pressures of societal expectations, and the beauty of embracing our imperfections. Jill also opens up about her commitment to fostering love and understanding in her life, reminding us that it’s perfectly okay to be a work in progress.

If you've ever felt overwhelmed or uncertain, this will serve as  a poignant reminder that you’re not alone. Join us for an insightful and honest chat which might just encourage you to lead with a little more love and kindness than you did before you listened. 

Let's get into it.

Transcript

Speaker 0:00

Hey everybody, before we begin, I just want to tell you what a treat you're in for. I got to sit down and have a conversation with my friend Jill Wagner, who is both an extraordinary actress and human, and is really wonderful at those kind of juicy conversations that really require critical thought. So if you're gonna stick with us through this episode, I would highly suggest that you be ready to open your mind as we work through questions that probably a lot of us have, and certainly things that I've talked about before. But Jill brings her own unique, open-hearted, thoughtful, curious self to this conversation and makes it a pretty special one. So buckle in wherever you are and uh enjoy the conversation. This is Unsided. Unsided. Hey everybody, it's Kristofer. Welcome back to another episode of Unsided. Today with me, I have a really dear friend and someone whom I've worked with quite a bit. And um I'm just so happy to have you here today. Say hi, Jill Wagner.

Speaker 2 0:58

Hi, Jill Wagner.

Speaker 1:00

I was hoping you would do that. Um, we have Jill Wagner with us today, who is a a mother, and I put that first because I know how important that is to you, and a and and a wife and an incredible actress and an entrepreneur. And gosh, how many companies are you actually running now?

Speaker 2 1:20

I am I'm trying to get up to 102. After I clone myself, I'll be able to do that. Um, no, I'm adding farmer onto my onto my list of things that I'm I'm doing now. Apparently I'm I'm farming. That's what I'm doing.

Speaker 1:37

So you own a farm in East Tennessee, right?

Speaker 2 1:40

Yeah, yeah. It's it's our it's what I call my happy place. Oddly enough, I don't get to spend enough time here. I know it's my home, but it feels like in the last few years, I have traveled so much for work and like five months at a time, and and then I'll spend like a couple of weeks here, and then I'll have to go off for another month. And I so it's odd um that I don't feel like I spend enough time here because it is my home, but yeah, it's a lovely place.

Speaker 2:07

And what's the name of the town you're in?

Speaker 2 2:09

It's Telico Plains, yes, ma'am. Eastern Tennessee.

Speaker 2:14

And and it I've not been there. I want to come, by the way.

Speaker 2 2:18

Well, you're invited any any day of any week. You are invited. It is um, I love it. You know, I was born and raised in a small town, so there are things about a small town that you just like, I don't know. I it's it's it's weird because when I was 17, I couldn't wait to get out of the small town because everybody knows your business. And every time you go to the store, somebody's saying something, and you know, you can't ever do anything. And then um I told my dad, I was like, I'm getting out of here, I'm never coming back. And he laughed and he said, You'll be back. So I I didn't come back to Wahlberg, North Carolina, but I did come back to a small town just because I had such a um such a wonderful upbringing in a small town, and I wanted that. Uh, we wanted that for our girls. And so here I am in Telico Plains, eight, I think eight hundred people.

Speaker 3:19

Is that it?

Speaker 2 3:20

Population. It's like when I say tiny, it's tiny.

Speaker 3:25

Is there even a town? Is there like a little downtown or a little hallmark?

Speaker 2 3:29

There is a little downtown. In fact, my house, I'm up on a hill and we overlook the little town. It's very, very sweet. Um, in fact, when I first moved here about 10 years ago, it was a bit, I won't say run down, but it she was sad. She was sad. So uh I believe uh a married couple from Knoxville who did like Market Square, who revamped that area, went, came and bought like a lot of the property down there, and they've been restoring a lot of it. So it's I'm very excited about that. It's looking very good. And uh, you know, we have like two million people that come through here because we're right on the Terrahala Skyway and Tale of the Dragon and all the rallies and the motorcycles, and so we get quite a few people here in the spring and and fall.

Speaker 4:18

Oh, it sounds beautiful. I really do want to come, especially now that you're you have an Airbnb on property. Is that right?

Speaker 2 4:24

I do. Everybody told me they were like, Are you insane? Why would you do that? You're gonna get crazy stalker people. I'm like, Well, I'm just as crazy, so you can't scare crazy. Can't scare crazy. I'm like, I'm fine, bring it, bring all your that is so true.

Speaker 4:42

Anyone listening, I want to tell you firsthand, you don't want to ask me, Jill. Don't even think about it. You'll lose. You'll lose.

Speaker 2 4:49

No, but we really, I mean, to be honest with you, I've always felt that David and I both have always felt like God gave us this property because we couldn't afford it when we bought it. And we prayed about it, and um, he gave it to us, he allowed us to be shepherds of the land. And I've always wanted to share it with people and I've kind of struggled because it is our home and I do want to protect my girls, but I also love sharing it with people because it makes people so happy when they come here. So I thought, well, why don't we just do a little, a little Airbnb, a little cottage, and and let people experience that. In fact, I have um a girl trip. Two women came down here and one's writing a book, the other one is, I think, a school teacher and she needed some time away. And they, I checked them in today, and they're just like, you know, you could tell all the stress just like left them. And so yeah, it excites me when people come to the farm. I love sharing it.

Speaker 5:45

Well, the reason we're given abundance is so that we can share, right?

Speaker 2 5:49

A hundred million percent. You know, I read something one day, I think it was an actress, I can't remember who said this, but she said, you know, I see my my my um the abundance as a circle, right? So it comes from God. And the time that you stop it because you want to hold on to it, it stops the flow. And so it ultimately stops the flow back to you. But if you let it go and you keep for pushing it forward, it always comes back around. And I thought about that and I was like, you know, that is so true. When you try to hold on to it and you become stingy, or you or you you fear that uh you won't be taken care of, you have to remember that uh he's always gonna take care of you. He's got you, you know.

Speaker 6:39

Right. Whatever your belief system is, when we constrict, everything stops. When we open and when we trust, and when we have faith in whatever it is that we have faith in, and when our heart and our intention is to to give back, it flows back to us. Now, what do you think? How do you think that accounts for people who aren't who who've amassed a lot, but they're not willing to share that? How are they amassing it without sharing it?

Speaker 2 7:06

You know, I know some people like that, and I don't I think that you know, obviously they have what they have. I just don't think they experience the full joy that you do when you give. You and if and if you don't give, you'll never know it. Like it's something that, you know, my dad even says to me sometimes, he's like, You gotta hang on to some of this stuff, Jill, because you don't know it's coming, and you know, your retirement, you're gonna need money, and I get it. I understand, Pops. Like, we're all gonna need to say for a retirement, and I get it. But I while I'm on this planet, my heart needs to be fulfilled in a way in which I can only do that by giving back and experiencing the joy through other people's eyes. I I don't know how it's to say it. Like I, and he, you know, he has these conversations with me and he's like, Yeah, but you're so busy and you know, you you always take on uh charity projects and this and that. And he's like, You're gonna run yourself into the ground. And what I have not been able to explain to him is that that's the thing that keeps me propelled. When I stop doing that, that's when I'll go into the ground because of everything else I'm doing. It actually relieves me in some weird way. And I know it's still a lot of work, but it gives far more than it takes.

Speaker 8:33

I love that answer actually, because I think about this a lot. And one thing I hadn't put together, you just kind of was an aha moment for me, is it's not just about amassing things. It's not just about amassing wealth or or physical manifestations of things. We are meant to experience internally what it means to be connected and to share and to care about your neighbor. I do believe that's the high I believe that's the highest intention of our existence.

Speaker 2 8:59

Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 9:00

Without a doubt. So let me let me um let me take us back for a minute because you've managed to accomplish a lot of beautiful things in your life. And one of the things that I that I love about you, and one of the things I remember is when you were when you were working to first have your first child. There was a point when you shared, and I won't share too much here, but when you gave it you gave it over and you allowed for that that gift to come to you. How do you think going back to your childhood, and we can kind of start there, how how do you think you came to understand that? Was that something a concept you were raised with back in did you say North Carolina? Is that right?

Speaker 2 9:33

Yeah, in North Carolina. Um you know I think I think I get a lot of my character and beliefs and my kind of um what's a good word for it? It's just it's it's just that easy way from my father because you know, I look at him and uh he's not the epitome of health. I mean, if you look at my dad, he looks a little bit like Santa Claus on vacation. He's probably had one too many beers, you know, he you'd think, well, you know, is that heart attack coming? And I always ask my dad, I'm like, how do you like why is your cholesterol not like why are you not in the hospital? Because of, you know, is he out here eating steaks and drinking beer? And um, and he always tells me, he's like, Jill, because I don't take life so seriously. Like I I kind of let it go. And when I was trying to have my first, you know, I think as women, we put so much importance into being able to create a family for our husband. And and it's like for me, I was just like, am I gonna be a failure in his eyes? Am I not going to be make my my family proud at the fact that you know I've got what they always wanted for me to have, which was, you know, little kids running around on a farm and husband and you know that idyllic life that I guess the storybooks put in our heads.

Speaker 1 11:09

Sure.

Speaker 2 11:10

And um, when I tried and we were trying, and it was so stressful, and anybody that knows me knows I am not good at doing the same thing every day. So when I was told you have to get up and you have to take this pill and you have to take your temperature, and then you have to take this other pill at a certain time, and then you have to drink lots of water, and then you I was just like, uh-uh, this is not going to be, it's it's just not me. And so once I finally just, I mean, to be honest with you, I didn't take it really that seriously. I know it's a child, and I and gosh, it is a serious thing, but when I let go of it and I was like, so what? You know what? Not everybody in this world is meant to have children. And maybe I'm one of those people. So what? And I think that's what my father meant when he was like, don't take everything so seriously, because you can literally get yourself so wound up where you you strangle yourself. You literally kill yourself with worry and and and it's all for what? Like we're all going out the same way. We're none of us are here to stay. You're no better than I am because you have two boys and a girl, or you're no better than I am because you don't have any kids. We're all in the same boat going the same direction. And so I think when you when you just take all of the expectations off of yourself and just say, so what? Like maybe, maybe this is just my direction, and maybe I'm going to, you know, maybe I'm this is this is just for me. And um, and I think as soon as I did that, God has a really good sense of humor with me. Um, because as soon as uh we stopped worrying about it, he was like, Oh, all right, well, you if you want that, oh, I didn't know you really wanted that here.

Speaker 13:04

And and that's interesting because I believe in in the way that I see the world that it's similar, but that in in other words, when we let go of the wanting, God, the universe, whatever you want to call it, yeah, yeah, stop seeing you as wanting and start seeing you as available to receive. Right? And and the body response. But what I remember is so Jill, you and I met each other doing a series of movies for Hallmark called Mystery 101.

Speaker 2 13:33

Oh, yes, the Great 101 man.

Speaker 13:36

The Great 101. And it was through that process when when we were first working together, you were not pregnant with your first child, you were in the middle of taking those pills.

Speaker 1 13:44

Yeah.

Speaker 13:45

And I remember just I just remember one day so vividly, you sitting down and telling me, I let all that go. And I I was so impressed because, first of all, you were leading the show. So anybody who doesn't really understand what the machinations of filmmaking are like, when someone's a number one on a call sheet, when someone's leading a show, the pressure of that is intense. And it's not just for the duration of the shoot, it's carrying that entire series. Yeah, it's carrying the weight of the success of that series.

Speaker 2 14:12

Or the failure of that. Or the failure, right? Yeah, that's it worse.

Speaker 14:16

Exactly. And that's not to diminish anybody else who's involved, but that's a lot of pressure. And you were always grace under pressure, right? And that it was a challenging shoot for us. It was there were a lot of things happening that made it specifically challenging. Literally, the first movie we almost lost the movie because our whole set was blowing over in the middle of the night on our last day. There was a lot happening. Oh, yes. You remember that? Yes. We were in the middle of like a rock quarry or something at like three in the morning with 50 mile per hour winds.

Speaker 2 14:44

Oh gosh, if people only knew, right? I mean, not just our shoot, but like shoots in general. How many things just oh my gosh, it's like almost, almost everything.

Speaker 14:55

Almost lost it. And you in that moment had five, no joke, maybe five minutes to get the last scene, the last big scene, you know, at the time.

Speaker 2 15:03

I remember that. I remember that that specific scene because thinking, God, can I just remember my dialogue and get it outright?

Speaker 15:11

Right. But you were so you were so measured and calm, and that's an energy that I've known you to take with you through everything. And I know you it hasn't always been a walk through the daisies for you, life. But I'd love to go back again. So you're in North Carolina. What made you decide to actually leave? I also left at 17, so I get the drive to get out of there. But what was propelling you? What did you think you were gonna do?

Speaker 2 15:34

Well, I think, you know, obviously I went to college, but I didn't, I only went to college because my family wanted me to go to college. I didn't have really any desire. I didn't know what I wanted to do. My father owned a tire shop named Wagner Tire, and um something my grandfather started. And so it's it had been in my family for a while, and I thought, I mean, may I guess I'll just take over the tire shop. I mean, that's kind of where my head really yeah, because it was, I won't say it was the it was kind of like not expected, but it was like you have this business that's already been started. It's been here for so long, like, why wouldn't you? You know, and so for me and my brother to go take that on, and and that was a probably a serious consideration in my head. And I think it's because it was like, well, this is just what you do when you're you live in a small town. You if you have an opportunity like that, a family business, you just that's what you're doing, you know? Yeah, and I didn't really dream very big. Um, I think for like when I was in high school, because again, you're in a small town, it's like, oh, okay, you're just gonna go work at the diner or at Dell Computers down the road, or it just that's just those are the cars.

Speaker 16:58

So wait, you didn't have a grand dream of being in the entertainment business in a Wiggy?

Speaker 2 17:03

No, I never took acting. I was a sports girl, like, so I loved basketball, I loved sports, um, and that's where my head was at. And I it it's weird. I can't even remember anyone ever approaching me about drama. Like it, it just for me, it just wasn't even on the radar, okay, which is so crazy to me. I just wasn't the same person as I am now. I was just different, right? And then when I went to college, um I think the thing that got me into it was uh there was a modeling contest in Raleigh, and I went to it because I needed money. And um, I went on this this contest to Los Angeles and it was for modeling, and and the winner got like, I think it was like $5,000 or whatever it was, which to me was a lot. Dude, I was like, well, I can basically retire. I'll never have to work again. Um, how wrong I was. Um and so I went and I I I won almost every category I was in. And at that moment, the um there was a woman that was there with me, and she was like, you know, you should really pursue this, you know, you should really think about it. Again, I didn't really, it was just kind of like, yeah, well, that was fun. I got money, so that's great.

Speaker 1 18:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:29

And then I got a chance. My grandparents gave me $4,000 they had saved up uh when I graduated college. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go out to Los Angeles, not to act, but just to go out to have fun for a little while before I had to come back and start working with my dad. And then I met a gentleman by the name of uh Alex Fox, God rest his soul. He died a few years ago as a young guy. Um, but he was an agent, and him and I became friends. And then he said to me, he said, Hey, have you ever tried to audition for anything, like to act? And I'm like, No, I don't even know what that is. And he's like, Well, audition is like a like a job interview. And I was like, Well, I could do that. And he said, Well, I have this, I have this thing that I want you to go out on. And it was Ashton Kutcher's punked.

Speaker 19:18

Wait, that was your first thing?

Speaker 2 19:19

That was my first acting gig. So they were looking for a female sketch performer. They wanted it, it was the second season, and they were gonna bring in a female sketch performer. And so I didn't even know what that was. I didn't know what a sketch performer was, I barely even knew what a performer was. Um, and he said, Well, just bring a headshot into your audition, and it's kind of self-explanatory. They'll they'll tell you everything there. So, what did I do? I had a Polaroid camera. I took a Polaroid of my head and I brought it in. I didn't know what the hell headshots were. I just thought it was a shot of your head. Right. And I I walk into the room and there's like 20 beautiful people in there with like these beautiful eight by 10, glossy, hot, professional. Like, I'm like, what in the hell are those? And then so I just gave it to the lady and Ashton was in there, and then he comes out and he's like, Who's is this? And he waves it in the air, and I was like, reluctantly, I raised my hand and he was like, Brilliant, brilliant, come on in. So it actually got me, you know, it got me noticed. And that's the thing that I have to remind young actors. I'm like, don't like in your in your auditions, do something weird. Do something to get someone's attention, even if it's just like you think it's just crazy. I'm telling you, those are the ones that catch, because I've been on the other side. I've been in the casting room on the casting couch and watching tapes. And it's not always the one that is just dead spot on. Sometimes it's the one that's more interesting, you know? Yep. And um, yeah, so that's kind of how I fell into it, which is a really weird way. But um, I he got me, Ashton got me my manager and my agent.

Speaker 21:12

And I just never So you did you book it on the day, on the spot right there?

Speaker 2 21:17

So he wanted me to come back for one more audition, which this was crazy. So he goes, meet me at Mahollin at the top of Mahollan at the I believe it was a coffee bean or a Starbucks. I can't remember which one is there. But um, so he met me there and he took me in. He had his trucker hat on, you know, so nobody knew who he was. And he goes, All right, I just want you to mess with people. Like, just I'm gonna watch you and just do whatever you want. And I which I thought was awesome, but I also was like, Well, what if I got get thrown in jail? He's like, I'll get you out, whatever happens. I'm like, okay. So by the end of that time, I had told those, those sweet little workers behind the thing that um I was a famous barista in North Carolina and they had retired my number and I just hadn't been able to like make coffee since then.

Speaker 22:11

Could you please let me make my own coffee and they were like and you have and you have no idea how to make coffee.

Speaker 2 22:17

I have no I didn't drink coffee. Like I had never made one like in a Keurig. I don't even think Keurigs existed then but like I didn't drink coffee. So I had no idea I probably messed up their machines. And then I wound up uh there was a line forming and then I wound up saying oh did did everybody read the news this morning about all of the creamers at the the Starbucks or or coffee bean whatever it was being uh toxic. There's like a recall on all of it. And they were like what I said well if you give me your tip jar money I'll go across the street and get some milk. Does everybody want to wait on that? And they were like yeah we'll wait. So by the time I had it done there was a line out the door and um Ashton was like yeah okay you got the job.

Speaker 23:02

You're done. Oh my gosh that's amazing. I I there's that free spirit to you not everybody has that a lot of people myself included monitor we're constantly monitoring ourselves.

Speaker 2 23:14

That's a gift do you are you aware that that's a gift that you have it's a it's I think it's inherited like if you ever met my father it's that same thing. I think I am literally the female clone of him when when it comes to our spirit um whether that be good or bad because sometimes that's bad. Growing up I would say that was probably not his favorite thing about me. But it but it yeah I mean that's something that I try to teach my daughters even though they're so young. One of them is very tightly wound and she she just wants to do everything perfect and she cares about what everybody thinks the other one could care less. And I love that about her although I know it's gonna come back and bite me when she's a teenager I I I encourage that because you know to care it's not that I don't want my children to care. I do I do want them to care but I don't want them to be influenced so heavily with everything around them. I want them to to make their own path and to lead you know and not follow.

Speaker 24:26

I I mean let's check back in the teenage years because I have two teenage daughters right now.

Speaker 2 24:30

How is your life going out with them?

Speaker 24:33

With the kids? Yeah you know I was just saying to a friend at breakfast today and I don't mean this to be dismissive or negative in any way but I feel like maybe it's just raising teenagers but raising teenage daughters you you should be given an instruction I'm not kidding. Especially as a man I should be given some sort of education about it because there are moments where I'm doing everything wrong and and I think that I I just literally have no tools left in my tool belt. Right? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 2 25:03

Like do you I I do because I remember I was one and I remember my dad at a certain point he threw up his hands and it's the first time I ever saw my dad cry and he said I just I don't know what to do with you. I am lost and I remember thinking to myself okay I I've got to stop this like I've got to stop the craziness because we know by the way we know oh don't tell me that because the only thing I'm going on is that they have no idea what they're doing. Oh no no no we know we know we're not that dumb no I I knew like I knew that I was being a little shit um but it's something you know it's like I don't know if it's the hormones or what it is or you just like I'm just the most important thing and that's all that matters. Oh it was just horrible. I think about myself back then I have apologized to my father since um but but it is a beautiful relationship you with your girls. I think the father-daughter relationship you know and of course I've had a beautiful one with my dad it's so important to little girls it's very very important because it's the opposite and also you're setting the bar for who they want to be with if they want to be if it's a girl if it's a boy whatever you're setting the bar both you and your your partner set the bar with like what kind of person yeah do I do I respect and look up to and I tell my dad that all the time I'm like you know you set the bar.

Speaker 26:37

So when David doesn't want to go out there and do yard work I'm like well my daddy loves yard work wait I want to go back to something you said and it ties back to something you said before and I think it's an important conversation because we can we can talk about acting and all that and we'll get back to it. But you just said whether she wants to be with a a a boy or a girl or whatever you said. Your your faith is deep and you're you're a Christian yes yes yes and I was raised Christian as well and I have deep respect for Christianity and for those who embody the true values of Christianity um I think that what you just said and being able to be a Christian but also to allow people to be who they are that's a conversation that's not happening enough. And I'm curious how you find yourself in that world and navigating that world around other people who may not understand that kind of open heart that you have.

Speaker 2 27:40

Yeah I mean it's interesting because I've had this conversation with lots of people um and again you know I I feel like I feel like God gives me a light heart and and I mean that by for whatever reason I just don't feel like Jesus came to me and was like okay I'm gonna need you to be the judge okay like this is gonna be a lot on you Jill but it's your responsibility to go around to everyone that you meet and to let them know um that they're sinning or they're not or they're great or they're bad or that or whatever they are who they are I I now I find that God puts it on my heart to be who I am and he expects things from me that I don't do all the time that I constantly am at struggle with. So that's my struggle my struggle like my best friend is gay. Um and oh I didn't know that yeah uncle D. Doreas my best friend hi uncle D if you're listening um you know he's gay and we've had conversations about it. He doesn't believe the same he doesn't have the same beliefs that I do I'm also okay with that. I'm also not going to be the one to go up to my best friend and tell him well you better get right because you're going to hell like that is not that's just not that's just not in my heart. And and I mean who knows who's right to be honest with you I don't know who's right and who's wrong. The Buddhist might be right. I I don't I don't know all I'm saying is um that I work off of the energy that I am given I believe by God. And when I love people uncon unconditionally I have a warm like it feels like you know it's a it's a bowl of chicken soup. Like it's warm and cozy to me. When I am judgmental and I have negative thoughts about people I feel cold. And so like it's literally a feeling that you feel it's a it's a feeling like I it doesn't make me feel good to to talk down to people and now I'm not saying I don't have thoughts and and I don't judge people. Look I'm human and I try not to do that. I had a conversation the other day about this and this was interesting to me because I thought about it. Being an actor has been such a gift because I believe that as an actress Jill Wagner is the best human version that I can be and I say that in regards to judgment. So when you're an actor if you're doing your job correctly you don't judge the character you become the character and it's really hard to judge yourself or to see yourself as others do or you just kind of have to fall in love with whoever you're playing or love parts about them and understand and have empathy. And oddly enough I feel that that's kind of how Jesus Christ looks at us. It's like he doesn't judge us he he sees all sides right now it doesn't mean he doesn't want to lead us into the right direction but he sees the truth of us. And as an actor when I am looking at the characters I there is absolutely no judgment. I'm just focused on okay what um what did she went through like what what uh what was her childhood like what did she eat for breakfast? Did she cry in the shower today? Like did she have to shoot someone in war today? Did she you know like so I'm unable to judge and it's really interesting because as soon as I take those characters off and I step into my real life then I become judgmental again. So um as far as in it it's the first time I've ever thought about that because I was asked the question and and that thought came to me and I was like yeah I'm really proud of not being able to judge I mean I think if we do it right you can't judge because if you come into a character and you judge them then you're not playing the truth. You're playing a judgment and that's not the truth.

Speaker 32:21

You know that's that's so interesting because for those of you who don't know who are listening I was an actor for a minute as well so I identify never at your level Jill but I identify with what it means to honor a character and as that extends out to our own belief system I've never thought about the fact that when you when you do step into a role particularly some of the roles that you've portrayed where you are um really talking about sensitive material or where you're really giving space for someone who may to an outsider look like someone they wouldn't want to hang out with or they wouldn't want to be around or in a situation that they wouldn't understand. You're tasked with for lack of a better word a really holy um moment there a really holy experience to say this is the whole humanity of this person and I'm going to create it and share it with you to learn from and to learn about and you like wouldn't it like so so I've played a serial killer before I like loved that character and it's weird because let's just say you were to meet a serial killer right this is how I believe Jesus Christ looks at those people like I see all sides of you.

Speaker 2 33:39

It would be really really hard not to judge a serial killer. But if you can take it down to the very fiber of that person's being and see every single thing that could have affected somehow maybe you could find some empathy and like I believe when you are working to really try to find out how a person thinks you have to decide dissect every little piece when it's really complex like that.

Speaker 34:11

And therefore when you dissect and when you ask questions and when you learn about all of the moments of someone's life then it's like oh oh oh okay you know instead of they are just that but they but the interesting thing there is that you you're talking and and you can correct me if I'm wrong but what I'm hearing is you're talking about curiosity and understanding not excusing people right you're not excusing the behavior but you're curious enough as a child of God as somebody who was created from the same stuff by the same being by the same energy to take a moment to understand okay or try to understand I was driving my mom and I were driving yesterday and so often we're thinking the same thoughts and I was looking at a homeless man and she I wasn't saying anything but what I was thinking was what I usually think where'd you come from who loved you whose child were you what were the choices that you made and I'm not comparing a homeless man to a serial killer so don't get twisted there. But but but I was just looking at someone that we someone might judge you know someone standing on the side of the road holding up a sign. And my first instinct is always compassion and curiosity right and I've had my own experiences with homeless people or people who were outside the system that I've given a lot of myself to invited them back to my home only to be burned or to find out that that was the wrong energy to engage in. But it's never killed my curiosity or my want to understand.

Speaker 2 35:42

And you have that yeah and well I think maybe that's what led us both to be actors like I think actors have that curiosity um innately like we are curious and and even by studying why people do what they do in order to learn how to act like you need to act in that situation I think it is a gift and I think it does lighten your judgment of people. But I you know I I struggle I struggle with that you know and and um but it's always nice to be in character because I'm like there's there's just no judgment. Yeah um you know and so that it was a it was a it is a gift.

Speaker 36:31

Can I can I take this a step further because and for those of you yeah I mean you obviously don't know us together as friends but we have these kind of conversations we'll we'll call to talk about one thing and end up talking about many many other things out of curiosity in in the environment we live in today in our country let's just keep this about our country and I don't want to get political at all I am not a political person but if we're looking at the disconnect what do you think and I notice it a lot through my kids I notice it a lot through my teenage girls what do you think we're missing as a society that that is stopping our communication that is stopping that understanding from happening I mean look I I I think the breakdown all started happening with social media and this I mean I I know a lot of people have the same view but I I really do think that when um kids are and I speak specifically to about our younger generation right now um they have a different set of um stressors than when you and I grew up and their means of communication is totally different.

Speaker 2 37:43

I mean if I wanted to speak to my friend I either A had a dial from a landline or I my dad dropped me off and I hung out over there right now they don't even do that. They just they Snapchat or they or they're whatever they're doing and it's so cold but it's also so fake our childhoods were were real because most of it was face to face and they were real moments and they were we weren't weren't recording anything there was no AI to embellish anything uh there was no Instagram pages to make it all look perfect um you know we we the only thing I had to worry about was like the the random schoolyard fight right you know between two boys but like that was that that was so innocent even if you comparatively look at what a 13 year old girl looked like back then like I looked like a nerd but 13 year old girls should look like a nerd they should look gangly they should not look like a 30 year old woman but now with the access to everything that they have on this little device that we hold in our hands oddly enough it's called the apple.

Speaker 38:57

It's like you know I it's oh I've never thought about that.

Speaker 2 39:01

Well think about it because Eve ate from the apple you know the tree of knowledge. Yeah of course and it's like I think it's so funny that we hold this little tree of knowledge in our hand and I do believe that it can do good but I think if you were to measure I think it's done far worse especially to our youth because they're they're they're not able to I mean some kids aren't even able to look you in the eye I mean and it's such a weird thing for me because that was when I was growing up I mean that was something that you just you did but now it's their brains are getting rewired differently because of these machines. I mean there is there's so much the there's studies on this that's why my little girls they don't have any of this technology.

Speaker 39:51

I bet I I struggle with that a lot as a father um because my kids okay so they have phones they got phones when they went to middle school so that we could keep track of them right and they have some social media I limit I limit it but they have some social media and when I tried to limit it further I came up against this I came up against some pretty strong arguments not just from them but from other people at the school from adults that now the social structure of children is so specifically tied to at least texting if not social media or group chats that if you take that away from them they no longer have social structure to lean into right and I think I bought into that a little bit too much honestly because what I should have done is just taken the phones away and said well we're gonna figure it out the old fashioned way.

Speaker 2 40:39

You because by the way it worked great before and they will figure it out. That's like when people tell me because I went down the homeschooling rant route and people said oh no they're not gonna have socialization every single homeschooled child that I have met is far more intelligent far like they're they're better with talking to people they're more comfortable they're not as crazy. I mean in fact I was like I don't want to send my kids to school because I'm afraid they're gonna start acting like your kids you know what I mean like and I don't want to say it's either look I went to public school and there are good parts and there are bad parts um but I will say this you you definitely the homeschooling structure is way more enticing now because of the social media to me and all of the things that kids have now become I mean I've I look at the high school here and I'm serious. I'm like I can't tell if those girls are 30 or if they're 15.

Speaker 41:47

I have the same thing with my daughters the same thing.

Speaker 2 41:50

Like what what are they wearing? And I don't want to sound like I'm not a prude like I get it like I understand like the short shorts but there comes a point where it's like okay come on guys like how much is like you there's the line and then it's like erasing the line.

Speaker 42:06

Can I tell you something can I tell you what happened on more than one occasion when I when my daughters were first getting into makeup and they were first you know getting into the the local fashion which is a little more skin tight and I would protest and I would get a lot of pushback. So I asked multiple female friends hey I don't want to be the guy who you know the dad who's too strict but tell me and I you know tell me that I'm that I'm not wrong. I was essentially looking for someone to validate me and say no you need to rein that in and you know I didn't have a single person say that do you know what I got more than anything I literally had one person say to me what are you doing sexualizing your daughter you're the one thinking about that it was mind blowing but I had others say versions of that well you're the one who's thinking about that they're just dressing that way for themselves it's men like you or people like you who actually create the issue it was it was shocking to me. I didn't I didn't find anybody who agreed with me.

Speaker 2 43:05

Wow it yeah I mean look I think there's I think there is just I think we've taken it too far is all I'm saying. I think that clothing I look I was I was so into clothing when I was growing up in fact I got best dressed at my high school. I bet you did but it's only because I would wear crazy stuff like plastic pants and like bright blue plastic pants with like a lime green shirt. I mean it was really ugly if I go if I went back and looked at it now I'm like oh my God I was like the worst dress but I was fearless in my fashion I have to say that I just I liked you know it was it was like my secondary it was personality to me you know so I love that and I love clothing. I just think that sometimes women use that and say well you know and they blame the men for looking at them but yet like Half of their butt is showing. I mean, I don't know who's right or wrong there, to be honest with you. I feel like there's a little bit of both, but it's it's like testosterone is a real thing. Okay. So men are given testosterone, and I don't know what that feels like, but uh from my husband, it's a real thing and it it just is there. So if you want to poke the bear, knowing that that's a bear, and if you do certain things to it, it's gonna act a certain way. Like if we know that, then why do we poke the bear? What is what is the point of poking the bear? Just to say, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't, you can't do that. You know, I don't really understand the dynamics of it all. Like, I just think that um women are, I think that young girls who are, you know, 12, 15, whatever it is, they just don't need to look like they don't need to kill their innocence so early. You've got all your 20s for that. I mean, trust me, you got your 20s, your 30s, and then your 40s, you start getting more innocent again because you're like, oh, we gotta cover that up.

Speaker 1 45:10

That's that's not so pretty.

Speaker 2 45:11

We gotta cover that. But your 20s and your 30s, you have two decades to explore like being any way you want to be. So why are we rushing for our children to lose their innocence? That is the question that I'm I'm just I'm shocked that parents, especially mothers, don't question that more because kids are gonna push. They're gonna push because they want to they wanna be the pop star that pushes the envelope, like Madonna did. They want to be the cool girl. But what they don't have on their side is a mom who says, you know what? There's something really beautiful about this stage in your life and how young you are, and that it's yours. All of it's yours. You don't have to share it, it's all yours. Like, keep it because there's strength in that. And we have we have uh somehow gotten away from like now. If you wear like, you know, if you're on a red carpet and you're showing your boobs, that's powerful. I'm like, is it? But is it? Is it or does it just make me think that you need attention? Like for me, I think, look, if it's if it's beautiful and sexy and it's you know, and it's tastefully done, I'm all for it. But if it is so to where it's like in your face and raunchy, for me, I look at you and I think, oh, bless your heart, you need attention. Like I feel sorry for you, you know. And I think as mothers, I know for me, I'm I'm a I'm a lioness when it comes to my baby cubs, like like come at me and try to and try to, you know, hurt them or take their innocence or whatever. I I am very I feel very strongly about protecting that for them because once it's gone, it's gone. Like then they're then they're then they're just teenage girls who are just, you know, every other teenage girl.

Speaker 47:15

I appreciate you actually having the conversation and having it from a point of view of this is this is how you see it and this is how you see the world, because you know, truly anybody can lead the lives that they want to lead. But I I I think it and I think it's also true for for boys. I think it's also true for for young boys who I see who I know are kind of caught up in that same trap of who can have the sexiest TikTok or the sexiest Instagram. But I want to I want to veer just for a minute. So we've kind of identified what's happening with our youth, but how do you think that that's extending over to people, let's say our age who are also not talking, which was the original kind of conversation. People who are kind of siloing off in their own ideas and opinions and not being curious about other people who believe inherently differently than they do, or I think I think the media has has just made it so black and white.

Speaker 2 48:08

And I and I say all sides of the media, um, it's weird. Like I grew up in a time where, you know, I used to sit on my my grandparents' floor and my grandfather would be watching like Walter Conn cried or whatever. And and I just used to think, oh, okay, that's the news. And that's he's just giving the facts. And that I took that to the bank. Anything that that man said, I was like, Yeah, this is just the way, this is what's happening in the world, and these are current events, and and there was no opinions, there was no, it was just the news. Right. Um, I don't know if we were being lied to back then. I was, I would suspect too. I I don't know, but it seems like everybody has gotten so oh, so polarizing and the news and and it's like clickbait, and it's like in order to get viewers and clicks and everything, you have to be so crazy on the other side. I don't, to be honest with you, Chris, I don't think that the majority of people are like that. I just feel like that's what we see from our little devices that we watch all day long. Yes, and that's what our that's what our feed gives us. Our feed gives us the the what we what we click on and what interests us because you probably click on it like I click on it. It's like, why is this happening, right? You're not, you're not, it's you're not checking the box. You're not saying, yes, I'm for this. You're just like, what is going on?

Speaker 1 49:37

Curious.

Speaker 2 49:38

Yeah, you know, um, it's it's a lot of things that are happening. I mean, the fact that we're able to watch a man's death on on social media and still scroll and um get up and I don't know, like go to the grocery store and do whatever else, like it's like it doesn't affect us. That's not it's not right.

Speaker 50:02

It's not desensitized. You know, you said something really, really important too, and I and I absolutely agree with you. The media, I talk about this so much on the podcast and on my TikTok channel. The media would have us believe that we are all more divided than we actually are.

Speaker 2 50:18

I agree. I don't think the the majority of friends that I have are like, I don't have a problem with that. I'm cool with that. Look, I'm I'm somewhere in the middle. You know, I think you just get um it, it's it's like a study that they do. It's like a science, it's like a math problem that the media is like, ooh, okay, we have to have this in order to make this. And it's and it's a science experiment, experiment. It's just um, you know, I don't watch the news anymore because of that. Um, I used to watch it like nonstop, and I found myself getting wound tight, which I don't like that version of me. And I I just stopped watching it. And you know what I do when I wake up in the morning? I listen to Cherokee flute music.

Speaker 51:06

Wait, what? I've heard that recently. It's beautiful.

Speaker 2 51:09

Cherokee flute music. So I just I don't know. Like my husband laughs at me. He's like, oh my god, like, what are we doing? Are we waking up? Are we going to sleep? I'm like, this is how I want to come into the day. Yeah, I need you to leave. Everyone, leave and let me experience the wake up process like this.

Speaker 51:30

Yes. You know what? I actually um I used to read or listen to self-help books ad nauseum. Now I start every day with a playlist of music, and the the playlist is called abundance. Uh-huh. And it's it's just various kinds of music that allow me to raise my vibe. And the meet what the media wants you to do is they want you to lock in, lower your vibe, become really myopic. Well, fear. They want you to be fearful. They want you to be afraid because you know what makes money?

Speaker 2 51:56

Fear.

Speaker 51:58

Fear makes money.

Speaker 2 51:59

They can control you when you're afraid. And that is one thing that I refuse to be in my life. I don't walk in fear. That's why when people ask me, like, how do you, you know, when we have the patriotic pick here at the farm, um, where we raise money for Special Operations Warrior Foundation, all the children of fallen special operations warriors, we put them through school. And um, you know, when people ask me, how can you do that? How can you invite hundreds and hundreds of people to your home? And I'm like, well, if I was afraid of every single person and I like that's a whole different life, and that's a whole different person. I am me. I am innately built to not fear people. Um, I want to connect with people, I it feeds my soul, and more than that, doing something for someone and being able to raise money, and these are good people coming to my farm. They're giving their money to help a foundation that I care about. They're friends, they are no longer the enemy, they're no longer strangers, these are good people. So, you know, I think we all have to be reminded that, you know, life is not as scary as the media makes it seem. Um, that doesn't mean you have to walk around in the clouds, but it just means that there's a lot of love out there that's not reported on.

Speaker 53:27

Yeah. I believe that people are inherently good. I do too. I really do. That doesn't mean that I always like to be around people.

Speaker 1 53:36

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 53:38

It can be tough and the energy can be tough, but I I believe in giving everybody the benefit of the doubt that goodness is their core. Right? And then I can throw up a protection or a boundary, especially around my family, if I realize that's not the case. Yeah. But I think we've stopped giving people that grace.

Speaker 2 53:57

Yeah, yeah. It's become really, you know, a long time ago, um, your neighbors were your friends, and you bartered, you gave things to get things. And, you know, I still live in a place right now where neighbors are neighbors. When, like when my grandmother died and I had to go home um to deal with her death, I was there for quite a while. And David and I were both worried about the farm. We were like, oh gosh, it's just gonna be a mess when we come back. We came down the road after being gone for about a month, and I saw my sweet neighbors out on the side of the road pulling weeds. Now they're not, they're not 20 years old. They're and they're not old, but they're, you know what I mean? Like it ain't easy to get down and pull weeds, even for me. And I stopped the car and I was like, what are you guys doing? And they said, Well, we didn't know what to do. We didn't have an address to send flowers to your grandma's funeral. So we didn't know what else to do. So we we just thought we'd come down here and pull some weeds. And I lost it. I lost it. But that is the reason I came back to a small town, is so my girls will know the kindness of people like that. And so also, so they can take that and radiate that, copy that, be that in in the cities that they go live in, be that, always be that, no matter how many times you've gotten burned, no matter what. Like you don't change whether you go meet the president or you're you're hanging out in a biker bar. You don't change and you maintain the character that you are given, you know, by hopefully us raising them here, they will have that.

Speaker 55:43

I love that so much. And you know, I often like to ask the question towards the end of a of a podcast if you could leave people with something, what would you leave them with? But that's I think that's kind of perfect there, right?

Speaker 2 55:57

Yeah, yeah, it is. Like that is that is it. And and I would, you know, I would just like to remind people as I like to get reminded of this, like people like compliments. You can change someone's day with a simple, like, I like your shoes, you know. I mean, you don't have to lie, but you you can find something. Usually, you if you look at someone or you know them, you can find one thing that you can compliment them on. And it can change someone's, and it also changes your energy. It can change everything about your day. And it's like I challenge people to do a little bit more of that to lighten people's load because you never know what what they're going through, you know.

Speaker 56:43

That's right. Do you think that's a southern thing? Because it's something that I do and I've instilled in my children as well. I was raised to observe and to offer, to always offer somebody something, a gift of some kind. And it does change the whole dynamic of the of the interaction.

Speaker 2 56:59

It it breaks down a wall immediately. You like break down that wall of that person. Um, yeah, I mean, I don't know because I wasn't raised anywhere but the south, but I know it was uh it was a a very important thing that I've been taught. And um, I certainly experience it more in the South. And, you know, I just want that, I just want that characteristic to be carried on by my little people. Like if I don't teach them anything else, like the kindness would be the one thing I think that I would really want for them, you know, because if you're kind, I mean, it's such a gift to roll through life. And I'm not always kind. I mean, I'm I can get sharp. I can get really, really sharp. But I find at my core, at my very core, if you were to knock me down to just my heart, I do feel like my heart wants to be kind.

Speaker 57:57

I mean, I'm a ray of sunshine all the time, so I can't identify with we've had our private conversations, haven't we? I but I think that's you know, I mean, listen, I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours. Um, but the I couldn't have asked for a better and we didn't know where this was going. But for the plan. No, we had no plan. We just wanted to chat. But I know who you are from my experience of you, and who you are is you're you're tough. You have your boundaries, but your heart remains opened. And it's such a beautiful thing. And to he to have the conversation go in that direction, and to to have people hear that from you. Somebody who may not be, you know, who knows who's listening to this, wherever in the world or the country they are, who have a very different life than you, who have a different faith, who have a different um belief system, whatever the case may be, what you're saying is universal. And it doesn't matter what all the details of your life are. When we're born into the world, I believe we're born with an open heart and the opportunity to grow that.

Speaker 2 59:02

Yeah, and it's actually people complicate things, I believe, way too much. I think if you really take it back down to just one word, that's love, right? One word. If we all could just operate from that at least 80% of the time. You know, I won't ask you to do it 100% because I know that's not possible. But 80% of the time, if you could back it all down your thought process to just like just love it.

Speaker 59:33

That's right. It makes me think of the commandment, love thy neighbor, right? Which whatever your whatever your faith is, it doesn't matter. That's so basic. It's so basic. And with that, it doesn't mean you have to understand, it doesn't mean you have to agree, but you can still offer love through that lack of understanding and that difference.

Speaker 2 59:52

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 59:53

And that's what you that's what you take out into the world. And I'm so grateful to to know you and have you in my orbit.

Speaker 2 59:59

Oh, me too. I feel the same way about you. You and your hair.

Speaker 1:00:02

Yeah, my hair, my lots and lots of hair.

Speaker 2 1:00:05

If you, if anything ever happens, if you could just will me, like they could just cut it off and will it to me.

Speaker 1:00:11

I'll wear it. Okay, deal. I'm gonna go change it right now. I'm gonna change my will right now. Okay, well, thank you for being with us. Come back sometime, will you?

Speaker 2 1:00:19

I will, absolutely. Always.

Speaker 1:00:21

Okay. All right, thanks everybody. Until next time. Take good care. Bye-bye. Uncided, unsighted, unsighted, unsighted.