.png)
Blood & Oil Podcast
Feeling uninspired in your faith? Discover the dynamic, life-changing power of the gospel with Blood & Oil, the Christian podcast that's redefining what it means to follow Jesus in the modern world.
Dive deep into biblical truths with cutting-edge insights. Be encouraged by authentic stories of God's transformative grace. Gain practical wisdom to deepen your relationship with Christ. Find the courage to live out your faith with bold authenticity.
Blood & Oil Podcast is for Christians who are hungry for more. More depth. More power. More of an unapologetic, uncompromising faith that transforms lives. If you're ready to go beyond surface-level discussions and experience the full force of the gospel, press play and let this podcast be your guide.
Hosts: Pastor Jesse LaForce, Zane Wheeler, and Terrence Theodore
Thank you to our supporters, and please be reminded to use your own discernment as the views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests may not reflect those of any other people, institutions, or organizations
Praise God for the opportunity to serve Him in this way. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and pray for blessings upon your day.
Intro music: "Floating Garden" by Aventure
Blood & Oil Podcast
Lawlessness Abounds | Finding Faith Amidst the Chaos
What happens when the world seems to be falling apart around us? In this deeply insightful episode of Blood and Oil, Pastor Jesse, Zane, and Terrence dive into the biblical perspective on our increasingly chaotic world. Drawing from Matthew 24 and other prophetic scriptures, they identify three critical signs of the end times that are manifesting before our eyes.
The hosts explore how systemic conflict has infiltrated every level of society—from geopolitical tensions surrounding Russia and Ukraine to the cultural divisions tearing apart families over political differences. They reveal how the pandemic created an unprecedented "shared cultural trauma" that accelerated many end-time dynamics predicted in scripture.
The conversation takes a particularly fascinating turn when examining how self-love has become the dominant religion of our age. This self-centeredness directly opposes the Christian calling to "love not your lives even unto death" (Revelation 12:11). The team demonstrates how this obsession with self has even infected churches through teachings about self-forgiveness and self-esteem that contradict biblical principles.
But this isn't just an analysis of darkness—the hosts share a powerful message of hope about "the rise of the mountain of the house of the Lord." They remind believers that God is establishing His Kingdom through His people, even as the world descends into chaos. As Pastor Jesse powerfully states, "The end times are not happening to you—you are happening to the end times."
This episode will strengthen your faith, equip you with biblical understanding, and remove fear by showing you your place in God's unfolding plan. Whether facing personal trials or witnessing global turmoil, you'll discover how to stand unshakable by returning to the fundamentals of knowing God through His Word, fellowshipping in church, and being discipled. Don't miss this timely word for everyone navigating our increasingly uncertain world.
Blood & Oil Podcast is filmed and recorded by Pastor Jesse LaForce and Zane Wheeler in California, with Terrence Theodore on video call from the East Coast. A variety of guests will join us as we discuss modern events through a biblical lens, so buckle up and enjoy the ride. Thanks to all of our supporters, and Praise God for the opportunity to serve Him in this way. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and pray for blessings upon your day.
In a time when faith can feel flat, distracted and disengaged, the Blood and Oil podcast cuts through the noise to reveal the raw, unfiltered work of the Holy Spirit. Welcome to the Blood and Oil podcast.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome to Blood and Oil. I've got myself Zane Wheeler, I've got Pastor Jesse and we've got Terrence. So happy to be back together, the three of us can come together today and talk a little bit about what's coming up in the news, what's coming up in the world right now. You know we read in scripture that there is just turmoil at the end of the age, and there's a lot of reflection of that in what we're seeing in the world right now. It's becoming more and more apparent each and every day as you tune in to the media and other sources that you know. People are going crazy out there. It's getting wild. There's a lot of division, there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of destruction and chaos happening.
Speaker 2:But the word of God is still here. The word of God is still here. The Lord Jesus Christ still lives in our hearts and I think that we're here to spread the word and help people find some traction in these times as well as just have a guiding light of some kind. Whether you're a Christian or not, whether you've come to the Lord or not, there is true and supreme guidance in His Word, and we are here, guys, to just help shed some light on that today. So, with my fellas here, who are much more versed in the Word than I am, hopefully I can learn something and we can bless you guys with a little conversation about what's going on and what we can do in these, these coming times to prepare and to, uh, to move forward.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So, uh, uh, let me start by just saying anyone who was watching last week, um, you know, uh, applying the scripture and being clear on the scripture is is absolutely important, and so I just want to qualify that. You know there were some citations that I gave that, that that that were needed to be a little bit clearer and, um, apply the texts, uh, a little bit clearer. And so the the idea of of chasing signs and wonders in in Jesus's um, uh, comment on the loaves and then his body being the bread Anyone who's watching is going to be able to discern where I was off in my citation. So I just want to apologize for that. They were still chasing that but for the wrong reason is why they were chasing, said you, you didn't come to me because you saw the stuff before you came, because you got fed and the feeding was still a sign stuff before you came, because you got fed and the feeding was still a sign, but they came because their bellies were hungry.
Speaker 2:This stuff rings true in the spirit and I get you. There's heresy hunters out there, and there's people that are trying to come all in, just really be aware of what people are saying and I get that I appreciate you saying that.
Speaker 3:You can see in the commentaries and the comments and stuff, where folks that's not exactly what it said, and so you know the, uh, you're right, the, the, the value and the spirit of what I was talking about was was correct. Um, sure, I just wanted to. It's important to me, so I appreciate it. Um, so, yeah, right now we're. You know, I was looking at something on on facebook earlier and, uh, this person was just like I'm so scared because they're seeing what's happening right now with the riots and in los angeles and um, and all of these other protests actually that are scheduled, like you know, here local us in san francisco there were some and I think they're coming, they're coming back again today and tonight and some some in New York and in particular, the ones in Los Angeles are. You know, you see the scenes of it and I know that the narrative out there says it was mostly a peaceful protest, but that's just not true. Like there's all kinds of evidence that that's not the case at all. It's it, uh, it it was. It was pretty, pretty violent. Lots of um, vandalism, destruction of property, um, you know, fires, setting of fires, like it's. It's not peaceful and you know, just so that everyone listening knows like we're in America and we we you, you know believe in the system of rights that has been established by this government and stuff, and so we're not, definitely not against the, the freedom to to gather and the freedom to make your voice heard and stuff like that, but we are against unlawfulness. And so the moment that that transgresses, transgresses just simply being you wanting to make your voice heard or you trying to bring light to a situation, or to try to try to bring some sort of public knowledge to a situation, whatever the math is, the moment that that becomes unlawful in in harming or in defacing or in destruction or something like that, that's against the law and we agree that is against the law.
Speaker 3:So right now, in the cultural zeitgeist that's happening, um, there's a lot of fear. I have a family member who, because of the last person who won the presidential election, they, they are opening their ears to a voice from from one of the political sides. That has them terrified, has them absolutely terrified, that they're going to lose these kinds of rights and those kinds of rights and money for this and money for that, and what it's done is it has, um, that fear has completely owned them and because they feel like they're out of control, they have now joined the opposing voice, because they feel like they have to do something. Wow, right, and this person is not politically on that side. So they have been exposed to a stream of information that has absolutely owned their soul. That has absolutely owned their soul, and because of that stream of information, it has provoked a response inside of them where their fear feels like they don't have control, and so now they must do something to get back in control.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so that's what's happening with this right and um, and we're watching this. So the scripture says one of the signs of the end of the age is the increase of lawlessness. Right, and that increase of lawlessness is actually intentional. It is meant to provide a pathway for the revealing of the man of lawlessness in Thessalonians.
Speaker 3:So you look at Matthew 24, it's got a pretty good outline of the end of the age. Revelation's a little bit harder to interpret because there's a lot of signs and images and a very strict, strict, firm, sequential timeline is a little hard to derive from revelation. But matthew 24 and and I think it's luke, uh, luke 20 something, luke 21, um luke's version of of jesus's same commentary in matthew, the parallel passage um jesus is pretty clear of a sequential timeline.
Speaker 3:He says this then this then this, then this, then this, and so there's a pretty clear timeline and in the preparation for the end of the age, there's a lot of societal turmoil.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:A lot of societal turmoil. So today, pastor Steve said this last year. So you know, shout out to Pastor Steve, he gets the credit for this. But for the end of the age there's three things that biblically, we are expecting. The first is the rise of systemic conflict, and that means from top to bottom, there's earthquakes, there's's wars, there's rumors of wars. Right, and so one is is natural earthquakes and famines and plagues and these kinds of things. The other one is geopolitical nation against nation. It's also ethnos, which means people group against people group. Sure, so think racism, think that kind of thing. But then he brings it down even to conflict within the home. A man's enemies will be those of his own household, and a father betrays a daughter, a daughter a mother, and these kind of inter internal familial relationships experience turmoil. And we actually saw the beginning of that in in cvid. Can I say that?
Speaker 3:yeah, I guess okay yeah, in, uh, in the 2020 debacle, yeah, um and uh I think youtube likes us if we don't say it right yeah, probably, wow, I didn't even know that.
Speaker 4:Wow, yeah, we're going to call it the thing.
Speaker 3:When that happened, we saw family members willing to turn in other family members for the sake of safety Right. Supposedly safety. Yeah, and so you know. We had church. We didn't shut down church, even though our governor was like you can't, you can't gather and you can't look, dude.
Speaker 3:He said we can't sing in church crazy it's wild, yeah yeah, you can't sing in church, you can't be gathered with us. Well, you know, we, we did our thing, right and um, we had a person who's not from our church, concerning a member in our church, threatened to call the health department on us well yeah, now we live in radical california.
Speaker 3:Okay, so we're in, we're, we're in the belly of the beast over here there's a couple zones like that in california or in in, uh, in america, but we're right in the middle of it and um and so what? What happened was the thing created number one, and I think the first time I heard this was from Jamie Walton. So shout out, jamie Waldman. He said it created a shared cultural trauma and for the first time in the earth, because of the internet, everybody on the face of the planet experienced it, whether you were in the middle of San Francisco or whether you were in the middle of san francisco or whether you were in the outback in australia, right, or whether you're in the serengeti in africa, everybody's got a phone, and so, for the first time, the society of the entire world has a unifying social trauma.
Speaker 2:Sure, wow something that 911 couldn't quite accomplish, but tried to.
Speaker 3:Couldn't because yeah, just America, yeah, yeah and and the widespread use of the internet wasn't yeah, right yeah also in this thing it creates this social trauma, this universal social trauma and and it begins to it weds us all together into this thing. And so, in this rise of conflict, you've got everything happening, and now, because of the internet, you've got everybody experiencing the same thing at the same time. Yeah, so we got these riots happening in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3:Yeah so we got these riots happening in los angeles and people in the middle of china who don't care about america, are watching the same thing set on fire, yeah, police, uh, yes, cruisers set on fire, right, yeah. So now it's it's sort of developing a cultural zeitgeist, that that weds us all into almost a a hive experience of a social cultural thing. Right, okay, yeah. So the first thing is the rise of systemic conflict across the board. So and we're seeing it like people have no idea how close to world war I we are with with Russia and Ukraine and some of the stuff that's happening there we, inside of our culture, we've racism is rising and and people are, like you know, adults calling children racist names. It's not okay.
Speaker 3:And then feeling like they're justified family members turning another family members for things that, in the name of safety, they feel justified. The crazy thing about that moment in in in the coveting of the thing, sorry, the crazy thing about that moment is that prior to that in america, family was always loyal. Yeah, yes, that's been part of the culture of america, right, yeah. Now we feel like if, in the name of safety, safety's threatened, I am now justified in betraying my family member, which is crazy. So all these things rise of systemic conflict. The second is the rise of self-love there it is.
Speaker 4:I think that's a good segue right there too, by the way, and for safety's sake, people, because of self-love, they're not willing to deny self. Exactly, yeah, that's why you come, so I'll let you finish that, but that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 3:The kind self and that's exactly. Yeah, that's why you, so I'll let you finish that, but that's what I was thinking, the kind of exactly right, and I and I have that in my, in my notes, is nice. The reason for the rise of self-love is because um jesus says specifically in matthew 24 that because lawlessness increases, the love of many will grow cold. Well then, what replaces that?
Speaker 2:the love of many will grow cold. Well then, what replaces that? The love of self. The love of self, yeah 100% Because of safety, survival.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's exactly right it is preservation.
Speaker 4:Yeah, self-preservation, yeah, it is preservation. And not just that too, if I may say so. There's a parallel passage where Paul says men will be lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. And so there's that safety aspect, for sure, but also the selfishness in regards to self-pleasuring oneself, or that sort of lifestyle that comes with, like seeking pleasure, what's the word for that Hedonistic sort of lifestyle, and that's specifically in the vein of sex only, but just a lifestyle seeking self, ambitions, pleasures, etc.
Speaker 3:That too is at the core of, uh, narcissism or selfishness, and that's what I think we're seeing yeah, and I, and, and even to that point, um, when I was thinking and praying earlier, the self-pres, if you think about it, is directly opposed to the Revelation 12-11,. Those who overcome the dragon do so how? By the word of their testimony, by the blood of the lamb, and they love, not their lives, their lives, even to death.
Speaker 3:And so the culture is producing a people who are incessantly concerned with protection of their own life. Yeah, and that will immediately separate those who will not love their life for the sake of the gospel versus those who will do whatever they they can to preserve their own life and it's a fixation on the world as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well said, the flesh, the world to survive. I've got it informed, I got to know what's happening and but you know the flesh is is put first and foremost absolutely, that's always the problem.
Speaker 4:It's funny, couched in what you're saying in the context. And what you're saying is the passage and revelation again, this is all in context of what you're saying. Is the passage in Revelation? Again, this is all in context of what you're saying. It's the whole B system, right? You can't buy or sell apart from having this mark. And so for self-preservation, for fear, for pleasures, et cetera, all these things. That's really good. I'm vibing with you, yeah, so it's all in context with one another.
Speaker 2:It's quite amazing, actually, and terrifying too yeah, fine too, yeah so absolutely for this stuff to play out the way that it's written. It's no surprise to me, but the manner in which it's playing out is interesting because it's partially conscious. It's partial. It's a lot of it's unconscious. We're talking about the individual, yeah, almost sort of we fall into it, but we're also choosing it yes it's very interesting how that that interplay works.
Speaker 2:It's not like you have a government, you, you know, or some sort of authority saying do this, you know? In reading Revelation, it might seem as though that's what could happen. Is the beast system is just inflicted upon us, right or right pushed upon us, opposed, you know, imposed upon us. Well, people are willingly choosing it though. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And there's this eroding, this incremental eroding of, you know, people's choice, essentially, and it feels as though they need to make these choices for safety and, as you said, with you know the stuff that happened in 2020, it's like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, interesting. So I preached a sermon last year on. Everybody's already got a mark on on them in the spirit room, sure already. And so when you read that revelation 13 on the mark of the beast passage, it says immediately following that in 14 uh, the first couple verses of chapter 14 that there is also a mark on the head of the servants of the lord yeah there it is.
Speaker 3:And when you, when you look at the old testament, um, and when you look at the Old Testament, symbolism that prefigures the things God marks his servants, and there is the when he tells them keep these commands on your forehead and on your wrist.
Speaker 3:And the Jews, actually, they literalize that and they have a thing called a phylactery. When you see some orthodox jews, they got a box on their forehead and in it is the shema, deuteronomy 6, 4, I think it's the shema, um, that's in that, but it's, you know, heroes of the lord, thy god is one lord. And so they've literally placed on their forehead, physically, this thing, yeah, um, and then in ezekiel, when god is is measuring the temple and he's judging the godless Jews by the way, from the righteous ones. The righteous ones are marked by the angelic with a sign on their forehead, and then, when judgment comes, they're told leave the ones that are marked for God and judge the rest, the ones that are marked for God and judge the rest, and so my contention in my sermon was when the mark of the beast comes, the people who receive it are the ones who've already received some mark of allegiance in the spirit.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent.
Speaker 3:Who they want.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
Speaker 3:It's already there. The erodions already happened, right. To your point that there is this there and and interesting, six, six, six, the number of a man, and my thought on it and this is this is speculation, because there's a lot of stuff out there on the number of the beast, like a lot and you know is that it is a self centered thing, right, the mark of a man, and, and that it is a self-centered thing, right, the mark of a man, and, and that it owns everything.
Speaker 3:And so when that mark of the beast is is presented, the only ones who say no are the ones who believe the bible yeah yeah, yeah, because you'll have a lot of of so-called christians who, because they don't literally believe the bible, they're gonna like, ah, it's all right. Or their allegiance doesn't fully belong to God and they don't understand the nature of what's coming, that they're like, eh, not a big deal, I can take the mark and then still work for God behind the scenes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, it doesn't work like that. Yeah, not at all, not in any instance, I fear.
Speaker 2:Not in any instance, it's like nope. Yeah, yeah, not at all, Not in any instance. I fear Not in any instance. It's like nope, yeah, Well, you know that's the theme of this episode, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Is information you know, like pointing out the things that are really happening and connecting them to Revelation or at least to an informed idea of you know where we are. You know, in current times is important for Christians and non-believers alike right now, so I appreciate this topic for sure, yeah 100%, so some of the stuff that we're seeing in the earth presently.
Speaker 3:Geopolitically, you've got a lot of crazy stuff happening over in Europe right now, like Germany just released a statement that they want to build a million bunkers by X amount of time, and that's because they're expecting a war with Russia.
Speaker 3:Okay, well okay, and that that's that, like anyone who's been paying attention for the last couple of years, the rhetoric has continued to rise and continue to rise, and continue to rise. And Ukraine recently did a crazy operation where they snuck into Russia a bunch of trucks driven by Russians and the drivers didn't know what they had, and in the back of the truck there were these Ukrainian drones, and so they got within striking distance of their targets and then these drones popped out the back of the truck and the they, uh, they attacked five bases, or six bases, four of them, um uh uh, aircraft bases, uh uh, whatever, and one of them a sub base, okay, and they destroyed something like 40 percent of russia's nuclear response system.
Speaker 3:Shish, that's not good, no, and two years ago I think it was two years ago russia's russia rewrote their nuclear doctrine because they saw the writing on the wall and they said even a strike against our nuclear response stuff we're going to consider a nuclear act of war. And so right now, russia's this is like last week was crazy geopolitically, like they they were and they've struck and some of the worst responses and some of the worst drone strikes, like they had 400 and something drones and missiles launched at ukraine last week because of this. So it's it's ratcheting up and we're over here in america, distracted by you know, pd scandal yeah, and you know trump's on the epstein list and yeah, yeah
Speaker 3:like. It's like look everywhere, but here and then next week, the un is having an official meeting with France and Saudi Arabia I think that's the ones are heading a meeting on dividing the state of Israel by securing a Palestinian state. Wow, yeah, so you know anyone who knows their Bible. The division of Israel is huge. When it comes to End time prophecy Right. When it comes to End time prophecy Right.
Speaker 3:When it comes to end time prophecy, and the beginning of the Abraham Accords back in 2018, or whatever it was, was the beginning of this, in which there's this attempt to create peace in the Middle East. East and the middle east and all of these countries that are have usually been at odds with one another are now signing up under under the idea that we're all sons of abraham. And the lie is islam is not a son of abraham, judaism is a son of abraham, christianity is a son of abraham, right, but islam believes that the promise went through Ishmael, not through Isaac, right, right, so, but but the, the couching of it and the selling of it is hey, we're all sons of Abraham.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's.
Speaker 3:It's called the Abraham Accords. Yeah Right, so that's, that's in in the mix. This, this meeting, is happening like what's today, the 9th, so you know, within a week I think, it's happening um. So that's that's. Geopolitically, you've got, uh, greater christian persecution on the face of the planet than there ever has been. Sure, you've got um which the Western news media doesn't cover. One of the problems is that the demographic populators, or the ones who get demographic information, they go by race and sexual preference and all this other kind of stuff. They usually don't go by religion. But if you separate by religion, christianity is the last persecuted group.
Speaker 3:On, the face of the planet hands down 100 hands down.
Speaker 4:Hands down losing their homes, losing their businesses losing lives yeah across the globe yeah, it's crazy and it's hardly ever talked about. That's the interesting part right.
Speaker 3:So um, at home now we've got folks who, based on whether you voted for one guy or the other, they're full-blown disowning family members like that shocks me absolutely that is shocking to me yeah, politics were a lot more innocuous, you know, in the last few years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, even a few years ago exactly. Yeah, just go back a decade. You know, yep, kind of stuff was never even thought about yeah, you know like well, you know how could you? You didn't talk about it over the dinner table, right? You also didn't slam the door on someone's face and disown them. It was nothing close to that happening. It's just wild.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the crazy part is classic liberalism, which is, you know, one is considered liberal, one's considered conservative, but the one that's considered liberal isn't even really liberal anymore. Yeah, classic liberalism was like look, I may disagree with you on what your opinion is, but I'll stand by you and die for your right to have your opinion Absolutely. And they don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2:The opposite of that.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, it's funny, they throw the term fascism around.
Speaker 4:Yeah, when they're the fascist.
Speaker 3:And what they don't understand is you're just as fascist. Yeah, you were just as much fascist yes, yes indeed, yes, the most we had a?
Speaker 3:um down in grenville we had uh, so they they protest and they they do. Well, they don't press it, they they demonstrate, which is probably the better, better term. Yeah, so they're out there with signs and stuff pretty regularly. Um in gurnville, and there's the, the old movie theater right there by the, by the city square or the town square, and that movie theater regularly puts out some sort of a christian broadcast on saturdays. It's like an hour or something like that, and there's some local guys not us, but there are some local guys that often go in there and they share and stuff. And some dude on one of the local pages was like he said get that stuff out of here. That's not welcome here. We're not going to have you impinge on our right to have our opinion. You're not welcome here. And I'm like yeah, do you realize the inconsistency in what you just said, right?
Speaker 3:yeah you need to honor our rights, and so we're going to refuse you yours that's the math, yeah sure yeah, yeah, twisted. Yeah, you you have. You have just completely taken yourself out at the knees. Yeah, and anyone with a thinking brain can see inconsistency.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but because they're emotional right, yeah they don't see the inconsistency yeah, and the the media helps to stir the emotionality oh, absolutely huge gasoline on the fire, for sure yeah, yeah, and I just a lot of these agendas are born of the media as well, you know, in a lot of ways, and that's what the unfortunate thing is.
Speaker 2:It's like, you know, you can't separate thinking, kind of moving in a direction that the individual thought was best for them. But now there's these sort of mass agendas that you know the media is promoting, that you know you've got these groups of people behind, that you know are very, very divisive. This has been happening for, you know, a long time now, and we've, you know, just did different colors and shades.
Speaker 2:But man it's ugly and I's and I think, like I'll use the word innocuous again. It was more so, that it was more so even you know, five years ago. More so like, yeah, families were turning on families and the racial stuff had ramped up. Maybe I calmed down. Everyone was concerned with the stuff that was happening in 2020, more so with their personal health, and so a lot of that stuff kind of quieted down. But now you have all of this stuff coming to the surface. You got people disagreeing over health choices, you know, abortion, all everything. Man, it's just like everything is up on the table and like and it's, and it's just it's constant. It seems like it's constant division over every, every issue. Really, you know it is constant.
Speaker 4:To go back a little bit, I remember, jesse, you said something to the effect of, like you feel surprised. In one sense, I suppose I am too, but in another sense I'm not. Like history is cyclical in the sense that we seem to kind of revisit the ebbs and flows of human emotions and the ups and downs right, the good and bads, and so these things occurred in different countries before they occurred. I mean, especially with regard to propaganda, the media using their powers to sway communities and societies in the way in which they're doing it. I think it's unique, though, in our time, in this way, because of the advent of social media specifically, we see it to Zane's point were doing, but simultaneously, it seems, everybody is being inoculated with certain agendas, and so that we see like the same kind of thing occurring, but in just massive droves. Now, right, and so that thing that occurred in 2020.
Speaker 4:Again, it didn't just affect us here in the states. It affected my family in trinidad, it affected friends in uganda. You see what I'm saying because, again, the internet has made us neighbors closer neighbors than ever before. So I think these things existed prior. We just didn't see it, um, blown up or exacerbated as we see it now, specifically my guess this is conjecture on my part because of the internet. Because of the internet made everything closer, it made everybody more, uh, connected, connected than than before.
Speaker 3:For sure, yeah yeah, no, I agree, and I think that that's uh one of the things that daniel spoke about. He said in the end, knowledge will run to oh, that's good wow wow, so I I think that's exactly exactly what we saw is the, the increase of knowledge, but with the increase of knowledge and stuff, the, the you need an increase of discernment. Absolutely yes, amen, well yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And wisdom, yeah, yeah, yeah, there seems to be more. So I think, the more we talk about this, there seems to be like this escalation of fear that is really behind it, a hundred percent. So, like you had division for you've had it forever. Like you had division for you've had it forever, yeah, um, you know, big in the 60s, lots of stuff happening then happened, you know, when trump came in for his first term, like a lot of division started with the racial stuff and then the stuff in 2020. But now there's something different happening where, the more we talk about this geopolitical stuff, it's like there's fear on people's heart like there never was before. Yep, and that fear is driving them to cling to ideologies oh, absolutely possessed by those ideologies and then to take a hard stance against anyone who feels differently. You know, as a form of, as a way to survive.
Speaker 3:It seems like yeah, right, like they're saying yeah, curving of your own position. If, if I'm threatened by it and I've got one of two choices I either change or or I double down on what I believe. Yeah, and people don't like change. One of the illustrations that I use for folks on the controlling power of emotion is you know, pastor Steve, he's our lead pastor. Pastor steve, he's our, he's our lead pastor.
Speaker 3:And, uh, in order to illustrate, I tell folks, I say, look, if I walked in here and I told you, pastor steve just died in a car accident, immediately, you know, half of you are like oh my God, you know, what about the kids? What about Dina? What about and, and. And. Then other ones were like oh my God, what about the church? What about? You know? So all all of these things happen, oh my God, that that that hits me like a shot in the gut. I'm, I, I'm the, the man that I love is now, you know, all these things happen. So you're going through this emotional rollercoaster with a host of different potential things, but they're all emotional. And then, five minutes later, I say just kidding.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Everybody's going to want to crucify me. But what happened? I completely controlled your world with a lie.
Speaker 2:Sure, absolutely Good analogy.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And your reality was 100% emotional. Yeah, and you are legitimately caught up and owned by that thing. And here's the truth. It wasn't real. Real, yeah, right, wasn't even real right. And I remember when the assassination attempt on trump happened, we had this woman walk in who was freaked out and she was like this, that and and, and I and I was like why are you afraid? And then I heard different voices in the community. Some were like angry, how dare they. Others were, and I couldn't believe I heard, actually, I can't believe I heard this, but I was grieved when I heard this Too bad, they missed, okay, wow. And so that sunday I stood up and I preached and I said, if this event has had any sense of an emotional effect on you, you are being manipulated, yeah, one side or the other, I don't care. Right, yeah, you are actively being manipulated, yeah, by the propaganda and the news source. Let me help you out.
Speaker 2:Jesus isn't freaked out yeah amen, thank god for that well, that's, that's it, and that's what I was getting to too. I think you know when I was talking about fear, is it's a fear of death if you're not connected to the source of eternal life, then of course you're scared of death.
Speaker 3:Sure, sure, yeah sure.
Speaker 4:Or even without going so far to think about death. If you're not connected I love your phraseology if you're not connected to the source of life, then you're going to have fear concerning life. Anxiety is concerning life when am I going to eat, when am I going to live, Et cetera. And then Jesus says in Matthew 5, don't worry about these things, the Gentiles worry about these things, but your Father in heaven will take care of you. So if you're not connected to him, absolutely, you're going to have all these anxieties. It's just natural.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And all the dark things we've just discussed.
Speaker 3:We know the antid't have the Lord, do they no? And I actually think a lot of people who think that they have the Lord don't have them either. And I think and this is so progressing the Matthew 24 says it shows all this systemic conflict that is rising. And then it makes this statement the love because lawlessness increases most people's love will grow cold. There's false prophets in there too, and there's betrayal, and there's the rise of nations and all of these things. So there's even a religious component that's in there, with, you know, and I think we talked about it last week lying signs and wonders.
Speaker 3:Is he mentions it later this, all of this stuff, this rise of lawlessness, and in America in particular, it is the development of what anybody who's watching can see is a two-tiered law system, meaning laws apply to you, but they don't apply to me, and the other side says the same thing Laws apply to you, but they don't apply to me, and the other side says the same thing laws apply to you, but they don't apply to me, they're conditional, that's right and and it, it.
Speaker 3:it really starts back in about 2012, where the government starts the. The exposure of the government in their hypocrisy begins to to become glaring, sure, yeah, so you know, events happen like um turn over all of your records and you know the, the secretary of state like destroys phones and bleach, like, bleaches all of the hard drives, and then you know uh, the, the next administration, or couple of administrations later the same thing. You need to turn over your records and then, when they're not turned over and they're not right now that person's being taken to court. Sure, well, why in one case and not the other? Or the one Terrence and I were talking about earlier? Like you know, I'm from Oakland and most of the folks in my area were not the same skin color as me. Okay, and I got friends who, if they were caught with an illegal gun charge, they would be looking at 25 with an L. So the way we say it around California, 25 to life.
Speaker 3:Meaning you get three felonies, three strike law. You know you get three felonies, you're out. So you you get a violation, you're done and a weapons charges. You know this. I don't know the math on if they're all felonies, but that particular one is a felony and because the person is the son of the highest official on the land.
Speaker 3:It gets a pass. They get a pass. Yeah, and, and if you know the story, the the government who was investigating him tried to slide a deal before the judge. They would give him, I think, immunity. Well, and because the judge stopped and looked at it and said, no, this is not okay, what do you got?
Speaker 3:that's the only reason why I got exposed, sure yeah otherwise, the government itself, the investigators, were going to give the due to pass, sure? So why is it? He gets a pass in the other zone, and so this, what, what? What's being bred is a, a sense of injustice in those who are watching. And because the government fails to be, just yeah, you have a rise of lawlessness, right yeah. And because it's from the top down, those who are under it begin to not care either.
Speaker 4:Well said, I'll give you another example that's relative to really germane to what you're talking about. I'm very new to, so you're familiar with the Carmelo Anthony story.
Speaker 3:Right, the young man who stabbed the dude on the bus that's local to here. I think Stanford like Stanford, or man who stabbed the dude on the bus that's local to here I think stan, like stanford or something right, yep, yep.
Speaker 4:And so, you know, going back some time, you had the rodney king uh verdict and so the black community felt like, okay, so this was obviously. We had it on camera. You know this was obviously an injustice. Uh, slight occurred, so we need justice. And then, long story short, you know, the verdict was like innocent yeah and right in the mind of many black people in the black community.
Speaker 4:There's this bubbling over of like vengeance, so as to say, even if somebody did something wrong, just like the cops did something wrong to your brodny king, because they got over, it's okay. Now if we get over, you see, that's right and just. I think what you said was so apropos, like there's this mindset of going back to the theme of the talk here. Um, there's this mindset of I don't care, there's no love. My heart is wax cold now because injustices were done to me. Now, consequently, the Christian is different. He's like injustices occur with him too, but, for Christ's sake, he's still loving, not turning the other cheek. He's turning, he's still loving, not turning the other cheek. He's forgiving, letting God be the judge, et cetera. But that's not the world. They're becoming callous and cold in their heart, seeking revenge, so as to have a Carmelo Anthony situation where the community is saying he's innocent, it's okay, they had years and years of injustice done against us.
Speaker 3:Now it's our time, and they're not even thinking logically to say no-transcript race theory and and even underneath that is what's historically called liberation theology. That liberation theology it it posits that you're you're only active in the gospel if you're freeing people who are bound. And while that's true, spiritually, in kingdom versus kingdom, they don't. That's not how they're applying it. They're applying it to oppressed groups on the face of the planet and in their convoluted thinking. Something that may be wrong if it's done by the group who's oppressing is not okay, right, right, right, right, critical race there yep, yep.
Speaker 3:So if, if there is a murder done by the oppressed group against the oppressor, even if by all sense of justice and law it's a murder because it's the oppressed group who did it against the oppressor, they're just, it's not wrong. Yeah, yeah, and that that breeds these things inside of, of, uh, of the culture, yes, and in particular, it it goes right back down back to self-love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it sure does yeah, yeah, it reveals a really uncomfortable thing where you have you know a say a group of people we'll call them unbelievers, non-believers who are deriving their sense of morality from man-made laws and, when those laws fail to correspond to right, punishment right just some kind of erosion, or you know, the, the, the, the foundation of their entire morality, begins to fall in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all the way and then you have you know what we know. What we talked about before is that moral relativism. You know where, everything you know, whatever I feel yeah, right for me right, or or the group of people that I associate with ethnic, ethnic, religious, whatever, otherwise, whatever. Whatever we believe is right is what's actually right, and there's a reason that moral relativism is one of the tenets of Levaean Satanism, you know, because do what thou wilt right is the whole of the law it's like
Speaker 2:of course you know that would be something that would cause chaos in society, but the thing the fact of the matter is is that there is no reliance on a sense of morality that comes from the Bible or comes from this natural law God's law, if you will, that is. You know, the society is not connected to that. It's connected to man's law. When man's law fails, that's when morality starts to go with it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, Super unfortunate, I agree. So you even have just back to the self-love point. You've got you now have this self-love creep into the church and it's the rise of things like you need to forgive yourself.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I hate that.
Speaker 3:I do. I got news for you, you don't need to forgive yourself, oh love yourself. Yeah and yeah. Need to forgive yourself, that's right. Love yourself, yeah and yeah. And I dude, I have a new age. I have been in churches that are holding conferences for pastors where the person teaching on forgiveness says things like you need to learn to forgive god, and I'm like I'm.
Speaker 4:Oh, I would definitely walk out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm gonna go stand outside the door because this place is about to get hit by a whole yeah yeah yeah, yeah or not.
Speaker 4:They might just get an influx of people showing themselves to be the broad path. You know what I'm saying well, yeah, they're certainly gonna.
Speaker 3:What they're gonna do is they're gonna attract the people who want to hear absolutely it's all about them absolutely, and this idea of, of self-worth. Like you know, jesus died because, because you're worthy. No, jesus died because he's worthy right, yeah, and you know, Jesus died because you were worthy. No, Jesus died because he's worthy.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know the reality. And here's the other one the unconditional love of God. God's love is not unconditional, God's love is highly conditional. Now, the truth is, God's love is better than unconditional, and what most people mean when they say that is they mean that you can come to God however you are, which we agree with. Come as you are, absolutely, you don't need to get clean to come to Jesus. That's like saying, you know, wash your hands before you go to the bathroom. That's not the right process.
Speaker 1:Come to.
Speaker 3:Jesus. So, yes, we agree, you can come to God however you want, but the unconditional love thing has become, in in common pop circles, a reason to sin.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like there's the, the clip of the young girl doing only fans who's being interviewed, and the guy is like he's like he says does, is God okay with you doing porn? And she goes well. God loves everybody Right the logic yeah, because he loves me, right, he's going to approve of what I do, right? Yeah? And so the guy sniffs this out and he goes okay, wait a second. And he starts to probe a little more and he dude, his questions were legit, right, it was really good.
Speaker 4:God hates sin um, yeah he goes.
Speaker 3:He goes, whoa wait a second. So uh, so god approves of of you doing porn. He's okay with it and she goes. Well, he wants me to be happy see how self-centered. That is yeah, yeah, how I'm the center of that feeling, right there and then she said he, he begins to probe some more and he goes okay, so if the devil were here, what would the devil want you to do? And she goes he would want me to stop doing porn.
Speaker 3:And I was like gosh, that's crazy. Wow, that's the in. Yeah, gosh, that's crazy. Wow, and this, this creep of the, you know, because god loves everybody, he wants me to, he wants me to be happy and all the dude. It's everywhere in the church, like I had conversations recently where someone is like this can't be God because it's too hard. Yeah, and I'm like wait, have you not read the Bible Right? Like it's like actually, specifically when it's too hard, it's often God. Yeah, because, number one, he wants you to overcome, and overcoming presumes that there's something to be overcome. Number two, he works supernaturally. So you should expect to be in positions where you have the Red Sea on one side and Egypt on the other, and you better figure out how to produce the supernatural in your life, because the God you have a relationship with is supernatural or you're done, that's it.
Speaker 4:I think that's the biggest point. He wants you to see that you can't do anything. There's a text, there's a verse that's reiterated all throughout the Old Testament. I love it. It's this and then they knew that the Lord was God. It was always in the context of the Lord delivering them from a situation that was way beyond their ability to save themselves. That's right, exactly that they may know. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Jesus reiterates the same thing. In the miracle of the healing of the dude dropped fruit through the ceiling. Notice what he says First fruit through the ceiling. Notice what he says he's first. He says to the guy your sins are forgiven. And then those listening know only god can do that. Yeah, so they, they begin to get provoked and offended. And he knows what's happening. He goes okay, so that you may, you won't know. Yes, well, said son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins.
Speaker 4:I say I say to you pick up your first yeah I love that text.
Speaker 3:That's right, and we have this glorious example of what true, supernatural Christianity is supposed to look like, which we can all live in, where you have the declaration of the gospel and the demonstration of the gospel and it settles the argument done. Shut some down. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Shut some down Absolutely.
Speaker 4:And it's not experienced, apart from suffering, by the way. So difficulties are promised, particularly for the reason you just said, but also for the Christian to experience these things and therefore grow differently than the people who don't know the gospel specifically. In this way, Again in context of what we're talking about, like the lost people, we're experiencing difficulties of various kinds. People, we're experiencing difficulties of various kinds. Right, unlike the lost people, we're not grumbling by god's grace and we're looking to forgive our enemies for christ's sake, because he told us that right and um, whereas they're looking for revenge and looking to, for selfish reason, fight their own fight, become the star of their show, craft their own narrative to be the star, overcomer and victim at the same time, we're picking up our cross, denying self that he might be, uh, exalted in the in the midst of our realities.
Speaker 3:You see the difference yeah, and I think one of the greatest testimonies to the lost is how the christian responds to suffering and difficulty yeah, where I I remember the story on uh actually out your way in florida where where the the kid killed a uh church member and I think it was a white kid in a black church terence, you might remember this and the kid killed a member and the whole church showed up to his trial and they said we want you to know we forgive you wow, came into the church shooting, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, something like that, wow wow, and so the world is watching, and they don't have a framework for that, because they want justice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:They demand the justice.
Speaker 4:Dude in the Carmelo Anthony story. The father's a Christian. He says I don't want racism to occur, my son died, I want forgiveness. And they bypass that message and go still fight, which is crazy 100%.
Speaker 2:It's a self-perpetuating cycle of violence, which is crazy 100. It's a self-perpetuating cycle of violence. Yes, hatred, yep, yep. The enemy loves it, yep, yes, yes, yes stoking the fires?
Speaker 3:yep, yeah, because if you get you that emotional response and he can get you to respond outside of logic and reason, yeah, and the, in particular, when, when you feel like you're right, it's really really hard to be willing to accept. If you're wrong, yeah, yeah, when you feel like you're right, yeah yeah, well it's, it's.
Speaker 2:It's a fleshly perspective versus a spiritual perspective and a christian has this context that they're ingesting of this. Okay, my god is going to sort this out. It's not my job to sort it out. Yeah, it's not my job to sort out. So we're taking the spiritual we're, we're. We are working from that spiritual context rather than the fleshly emotional context of I need to get vengeance or I need to teach this person never to do right right because, it's my job to to dole out justice which is the self-love.
Speaker 3:Again, there it is yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we talked about self-deification last time too, and that's sort of that like next spiritual step that one would take from that foundation of self love into now I'm God, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, wow, that's good, wow, right yeah.
Speaker 2:It's not even like the society isn't even promoting that, but it will, you know, I think in some sense, I think, in some sense it is, though you know, they may not say those words, but I think that's what we see logically happening with, let's say, some certain communities, alphabet communities, and I take that from Romans 1.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the progression of that is selfishness. You become so self-absorbed with self. Paul says in that same context because of this self-idolatry, women sleep with women, men sleep with men, and so that's the digression of selfishness and pride in particular.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the narcissism point. Aggression of selfishness and pride in particular. So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the narcissism point. Yeah, yeah, and the way I put it is we are incessantly in love with the man in the mirror.
Speaker 4:That's my point. Yeah, you got it yeah.
Speaker 3:There you go.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 4:We are incessantly in love with the man in the mirror and I love that Christ is taking that away from us, though I love, because, if we're honest, all Christians, like the lost people, we have selfishness too and we're learning by his grace to become the opposite Like.
Speaker 4:Christianity is not only opposed but diametrically opposed to selfishness, but it's the complete antithesis.
Speaker 4:The gospel is to the way of the world, whereas the world again to your point whereas the world is seeking self-interest, seeking to be their own God in various ways, they do it. We're seeking to die to self, and not die to self because we find ourselves to be so humble, let's say like Eastern religion, like Buddhism or something like this, but we're dying to self that we might bring attention to another person, namely God himself, which I find unique amongst all the other religions and amazing even as a Christian experience to some degree. It's really a wonderful thing when it happens, man, because it's difficult, it's not like I'm saying this out of like, oh, it's easy, I'm doing this so well, I'm skating along, this is great. No, there's real agony, there's real sufferings and difficulties galore, but there's also this strange grace that allows you to do it, so that you can see the juxtaposition of the two realities and you say, wow, I know, the Lord is the Lord, you see, so I love that yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now that's a good disclaimer. We struggle with this stuff every day. Yeah, yeah. Because the flesh is the flesh and the flesh is oriented towards self-preservation.
Speaker 4:Yes, it just is.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, we are, we are in our, our primal instincts are oriented to survival. So there there's the self-love, there, preservation, like you said, and so I, you know we struggle with this as well, but again it's that, it's the, it's the spiritual context versus versus the physical context. You know, how am I approaching life, how am I approaching others, how am I conducting relationships and the fallout after conflict, which will happen?
Speaker 1:How do I navigate?
Speaker 2:that Well, I can navigate it by keeping my sight on the Lord and remembering that he is faithful. He is the promise keeper. He will figure out every interpersonal relationship that I've ever had issue with. There's going to be some kind of rectification there through Him, yeah.
Speaker 3:And to Jamie's point you study His face and you study His word.
Speaker 1:Yes, you cling to, yeah, yes To Jamie's point, you, you study his face and you study his word yes, clean to him, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And throw yourself on. So I think, what?
Speaker 3:what all of this is leading to, this rise of lawlessness? Um is what Paul calls in second Thessalonians to the mystery of lawlessness.
Speaker 4:Good.
Speaker 3:And he says that it is already at work. And that it is already at work and um, there will come a day where the mystery of lawlessness finally is is revealed in in its fullness, and it's called the man of lawlessness, and that's the antichrist. And so the point of this rise of lawlessness is is to cause the many for their love to grow cold. And when you look at the second Thessalonians passage, intentionally it coincides with this great deception that's coming and it's meant to deceive those who refused to receive a love for the truth. And so what do we see? God is proving people's loves the whole time. Right, the whole thing is is what do you love? What do you love? What do you love? What do you love? That's the like the everybody.
Speaker 3:People ask oh, does god love me? Like, if you've read the bible and you know the gospel, like, duh, god loves you. He died and rose for you, yeah, yeah. The bigger question is this are you going to love him back? Yeah, there it is. Are you going to love him back? And obedience is a big deal, like, we're not those who, like, are trying to resubmit ourselves to the law. We're not trying to do that. But if you really love somebody you love to obey, yeah, yeah, really love somebody you obey, you love to obey, yeah, yeah, and so obedience is is a big deal, and this, this thing that god is doing, allowing the increase of the systemic lawlessness, is all toward this end where, eventually, there's going to be a great deception that's going to be presented to the whole earth. Yeah, jesus puts it this way, it's going to be a great deception that's going to be presented to the whole earth.
Speaker 3:Yeah, jesus puts it this way, it's gonna, like he says, uh, that this thing will be presented even to the elect yeah, wow even to the elect in in matthew 24, and it will cause two camps immediately those who love God and those who don't love God. Yes, that that's the math. It will expose the trident, those, those whose love have grown cold and and actually, because of the rise of lawlessness, become lawless to some degree of themselves that's right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and those who love god? Yeah, and that thing is always a matter of what do you love? What do you love? What do you love? What do you love, what do you love? Which is the self-love question, right? You're not called to love self, you're called to love God. You're not called to esteem self. Like, the whole self-esteem stuff is stupid, it's nasty, it's completely contrary to the gospel.
Speaker 3:It makes you the center of everything, it's God esteem. I want to esteem the Lord. I love that. I want to glorify God. I want to esteem the Lord. I love that. I want to glorify God. I want to make much of Him not me yeah. I want to be like John the Baptist I decrease, he increases.
Speaker 3:Yes amen, right, yeah, that dynamic is what this whole thing is about. To the revelation, chapter 12, point that one of the things that the devil is doing is the, the three, the three ways in which we stand against the demonic and have success is the word of our testimony. This is revelation 12, 11,. The blood of the lamb and then most people leave out the third part.
Speaker 3:Yeah, love not our lives, even to death. That's right. We do not love our life, even when faced with death, right, and that is directly contrary to self-love, exactly 100 right and so I think that what the devil is doing is he's trying to hamstring the sacrificial love that will not try to protect itself when faced with death. Yeah, yeah, so that he can get those who will love themselves when faced with death.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:When faced with death and they will apostatize They'll fall away yeah. Which is what I think is happening, to cause fear in their heart.
Speaker 1:Right To drive them away.
Speaker 3:And the culmination of all of that is the antichrist, and and a real interesting consideration is that he's the one who's supposed to bring peace to the middle east the irony of it all, right the irony of it all is that he comes and brings lawfulness yeah, that's wild, but it's not lawfulness, because it's his law right, yeah, yeah, it's directly contrary to god.
Speaker 2:Take the sign.
Speaker 3:Take the this, take the that, take the. I'm gonna bring peace. Here's the offer. Everybody loves me and their, their yearning desire for loving the wrong thing. He is the if. Christ is the answer to true love, the one who is a different Christ or opposed to Christ is the answer to false love.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is. It's a trap that you know is all too available in the New Age too and again I come from this context. Obviously, this was my life for so long. You have a sad person who lives in a fallen world, who's a fallen person themselves, who goes to the self-help section of a bookstore yeah, yeah, wow. A book that tells them love your soul, love your body, love your emotions. You deserve this, you deserve that because you're a spiritual, beautiful being who's connected to divinity.
Speaker 2:And if you love yourself enough, the divine is going to flow through you, right? Yeah, yeah, wow, and it's, it satisfies something psychologically, it does so deep, right, but then we see so clearly now the divide between soul and spirit yeah and how the soul is, there, is, is is essentially focused on, completely in the spirit, disregarded completely where the spirit is, is is our access to God.
Speaker 2:In a lot of ways, right, and it's that part of us that Communion yeah, exactly, communion, exactly. The Holy Spirit has access to us through our Spirit. So it's like the full focus, the hyperfixation on the soul, the body, the mind, the will, the emotions. This is all the love of self right there and it's satisfying to the person that doesn't have the gospel. That's right, it really is.
Speaker 4:Which is why the gospel in itself is the only cure for selfishness and self-love, all the selves, self-absorption, self-love, selfishness, all of it. And to go back to what Jesse said a minute ago concerning, like, people not knowing the love of God and they should know it I think that's an issue that we're having in the church too. People are not and, by the way, this isn't new. Right, like in the Old Testament, you had, you know God's people saying how have you loved us? The whole Jacob, I loved Esau, I hated passage. They say, well, how did you love us? Because in the context there, they're suffering and so they can't imagine God loving them in this context, because that's how we think. In the New Testament you have the scene where they're on a boat and a storm comes and Jesus is asleep and they say Master, wake up. Don't you love us? Right, and that's how people think Don't you care? And so, again, this isn't new.
Speaker 4:Anytime we go through suffering, we think, well, I wouldn't let my kids do that. Therefore, this cannot be love. How are you loving me? But I'll say this Christ came to show us the way he suffered and then he reigned. It was a cross to bear before the crown. Likewise, as Christians, we have to embrace this reality, otherwise we are going to not do well when suffering comes. And suffering will come. It comes already in various forms throughout life difficulties with friendships, relationships, work. It's going to come far worse than that in the future, and if you can't settle the fact that God loves you now, specifically because of the gospel in and of itself, you're going to suffer. So I would caution people listening. Please master the gospel or even better yet, let the gospel master you Consider the claims of Christ and what he's done for you specifically, and let that be the only proof, your biggest proof, of God's love, because apart from that, you will not do well when difficulties come.
Speaker 3:That's right and the way I've said it is. You know, the greatest demonstration of the love of God is the crucifixion and resurrection of the Son 100%. And here's the fact. If he never did another thing, for me the gospel is enough.
Speaker 4:Way more than enough.
Speaker 3:Salvation is enough.
Speaker 4:How do.
Speaker 3:I know that, though. If I don't have that set now, then, when suffering and persecution comes, I will begin to doubt his love for me.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:I'm believing that his love is caught up in some sort of physical comfort.
Speaker 4:Thing right.
Speaker 3:Instead of the premier demonstration of his love, greater love for him, then this thing laid down his life for his friends, that that God has absolutely demonstrated his love. And whatever I'm happening, is happening to me right now, is temporary. I have an eternity with, with my savior.
Speaker 3:That is glorious and will eclipse anything here, and there's a day coming when he will wipe away every tear, and it heaven's not going when he will wipe away every tear amen and it heaven's not going to be boring with a bunch of clouds and fat little angels with like for real, real talk that's a gross view of heaven yeah, that's stupid boring, in my opinion, I think that the new heavens and the new earth is going to be much more glorious than anything we have here, and when you look here and you look at the cosmos, it is a glorious thing and because we are ruling and reigning with the Savior which was the plan the whole time a shared throne that we are going to be having such a good time with Him, in Him, experiencing Him, and joy will be the primary lot for the believer. Joy and glory, joy and glory, joy and glory, joy and glory.
Speaker 4:I'm going to stress that even further, bro, tell me what you think about this, because we're going to be eternal in heaven. And if heaven was simply streets, of gold and all the fun stuff that you can imagine, let your mind think about two million billion years from now. That'll get boring, but heaven is not going to be heaven or glorious or joyful, because there are cool things to experience. There's an infinite being there who never gets boring because he himself is infinite.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:I think of these angels in Isaiah's vision. He sees angels before the throne and their whole job day and night if I could use the phrase day and night to describe time. All they're doing is screaming Holy, holy, holy, and they're not bored bro. They see something of this infinite God, who is like the Bible says. Everything else will wear like a scroll, but he is eternal. The implication there is you've experienced fun things. You've experienced food, intimacy with the wife, all kinds of things you could think about, but did you realize, though, these things have an ending. You have to wait a little while before you enjoy it again. If I eat the best foods, I get full. If I eat on a full stomach, I'll throw up. I can't have sex 24 seven. I need a break. I'm sorry, I'm not a rabbit. All these things because we're temporal. There's a break, there's a pause, there's a synapse occurring, not the infinite one, not the eternal one, and that's why heaven will be heaven.
Speaker 3:I agree. Yeah, I completely agree. There's a sermon by Sam Storms that he did at a Desiring God conference that I listen to regularly and maybe we can link it in the thing. But he does an exposition on jonathan edwards's view of heaven and he says uh, he, he comes to the conclusion that heaven is this ever-increasing, um, rising wave of joy and glory and exchange between us and god and each other. Actually, absolutely, and because heaven and is infinite and we're dealing with a god who's infinite, it never stops, yep. So instead of a rising tide, glory to glory abates. It never abates. Yep, and because god is infinite and I'm not, I will spend eternity finding new things, yes, my point yes, experiencing never getting bored.
Speaker 3:Yes, even in heaven, though, we are eternal, and we are eternal. We're all eternal beings, meaning we'll last forever. We're not infinite. We are not Correct. We have a beginning and we haven't, and we've got boundaries on us.
Speaker 4:Yes, right.
Speaker 3:And that may go away. But me as a thing, as a created being, I have a beginning, which means that I've got some sense of ability to be measured.
Speaker 1:God doesn't have that.
Speaker 3:And so every day I will experience something with him that is absolutely new and glorious. And these angels that are flying around the throne they are seeing new facets of the infinite one every moment, right to where their their holy, holy, holy is not a rote obligation, it's not a a meaningless perfunctory. Just this is my job and I'm not going to be, you know, like the robot that says hi to every customer that walks before that's.
Speaker 4:That's not what it is you could not drag them away from that site.
Speaker 3:No, they're they got souls too, by the way. They are fully engaged and captured by him in that moment, which is one of the reasons why the fall of satan is so crazy yes, yes yes, he was a cherubim, according to to which means that he was a throne guardian.
Speaker 3:He's part of the throne and he fell from that spot. Like the closest you can get to God without being a part of God, which is why he's so jealous about us, because God makes us a part of him. He shares himself with us, which the angelic and the devil will never get, they never had, and so the devil's very jealous about humans. It's one of the reasons why he fiercely hates us so much. It's because God gives us something he never had and he will never have, and he hates that. And in my mind, I tend to think because of the title of Jesus, a son of the morning star, in the book of Revelation, which coincides to the name of satan in isaiah right yeah that our place in the sun replaces where the devil fell sure yeah
Speaker 4:what is? That I can't conjecture though uh, yeah, it is.
Speaker 3:It is, it is assumption and can in conjecture, but I think it's a good but good one.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, so go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it would stand to reason too that the enemy would be the God of self. The lowercase g. God of self 100% Right, because that's all he has.
Speaker 3:That's where he fell from.
Speaker 2:He's severed from God yeah. All he has is self.
Speaker 3:So of course it's the. I think it's the seven I wills it was completely about self, though yeah, I will ascend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, wow, yeah so, um, we've been talking about the heavenly thing and, by by way of transition, the last point, because a lot of folks listening, um, you're going to hear about the rise of systemic conflict and the rise of self-love, and it's like, oh my gosh, this is depressing, this is terrible. And then we talk about the future heavens, and that's a joy and a joy to look forward to. But now you've kind of got this gap where you're still like ugh about what's coming, kind of got this gap where you're still like ugh about what's coming. And the folks who are right now terrified about the potential of a race war, the potential of even a civil war in America, all of these things are fears that are happening. And so the last thing, the three things, are the rise of systemic conflict, meaning in every zone. The second is the rise of self-love. But the third is the best part, and it's this it's the rise of the mountain of the house of the Lord. And so I'm just going to read it.
Speaker 3:It's Micah 4, verse 1. And he says this he says come about in the last days that the mountain of the house of the lord will be established as the chief of mountains and it will be raised above the hills and the peoples will stream to it and the nations will come and say come and let us go up to the mountain of the lord and to the house of the god of jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths. And for for Zion, for from Zion, will go forth the law, even the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And so here's why I want to tell you, brother or sister in the Christian, if you are in relationship with Jesus, is this the end times are not happening to you, you are happening to the end times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on Perspective.
Speaker 3:There is overcoming that is purposed for you, and that pathway may be fraught with danger and may be fraught with suffering, but overcoming is the end thereof. And in that process there is demonstration of his kingdom. Yes, and it's that kingdom that displaces the lesser kingdom.
Speaker 4:Yes, it's that kingdom.
Speaker 3:that is, so that you may know it is that kingdom. That is what Terrence mentioned earlier in the Old Testament. Now you know the Lord, your God. Now you know this, and it is the supernatural lifestyle of the believer. And when you read Hebrews 11, it's like they shut the mouths of lions. They raised the dead, which are all glorious. And then it says this and they suffered, yeah, they're like yeah, yeah, wait what?
Speaker 3:and they were sawn in two and they were persecuted and they were lived in caves and they were so you've got all of this thing of this. What is patently supernatural demonstration? Resurrection from the dead. And then another supernatural demonstration, which is how do you bear up under suffering in a way that the world goes? I don't get it. Those both come from the same spot. That thing is the rise of the mountain of the house of the Lord.
Speaker 3:And to those of you who are listening. This is the reason why church is so important, because mountain of the house of the lord is the church of the living god, who is zion, the overcoming church right. And that that's not to say that there's not false churches out there there is. And it's not to say that the church you're in is perfect. It's not that. It is to say that, as this thing that's rising in matthew, chapter 4, is developing, the very last verse of matthew, 24, says this read uh, we'll start in. Uh, in 12, 12-14, jesus says because lawlessness is increased, many people's love will grow cold, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. Verse 14 here's the rise of the mountain of the house of lord. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations. Yes, and then the end will come yes so what does that mean?
Speaker 3:do the math? In this rise of conflict, in this rise of war and this rise of false prophets, and this rise of betrayal and and all of this stuff, the rise of the love of many growing cold, the all of this law, all the all the stuff, there is going to be a company of people completely on fire for Jesus.
Speaker 4:Praise God, yeah.
Speaker 3:Standing in the middle of it preaching the gospel Amen.
Speaker 3:And their shout will be I will not love my life, even when faced with death because he's worked in my life, I have the testimony of what he's done and I've been saved by the blood of the Lamb, and this will develop. One of the themes that we have as a church for this year is the development of the land of goshen, and the land of goshen is the place where, when everything else in egypt is going flipping bonkers, the land of goshen is just fine, thank you. How do we see that in in microcosm today? Rice fields in thailand, I don't know. Pick some place. Why is everybody else's rice fields destroyed with the christian? Yeah?
Speaker 3:yeah santa rosa and the fires 2017 2018. We had a family right in the middle of the fires. They walk into their backyard. Their house is standing after the fires and they see a partially burnt ember and a pile of dry leaves on the side of their house.
Speaker 2:That went out somehow Amazing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you were here bro Praise God.
Speaker 4:That was crazy. That was definitely God man. That sounds like egypt with moses man like all the doors. That's the land of the ocean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure that's where they were given, there, you go they, they came in and they got the best of the land under joseph. They lived in the best of the land for the 400 years and then, when judgment came against Egypt, stuff fell everywhere but the land of Goshen. And here's what happened, the Egyptians who were paying attention. They were like why is it happening to us and it's not happening to them?
Speaker 3:And they automatically knew this. Yahweh is greater than our gods. Yes, and we know that that's actually a demonstration against real supernatural powers. God is like I'm gonna. You know, neener, neener, here I come.
Speaker 3:The showdown, the yeah you know first kings, 18 elijah and the 450 prophets of baal stuff yeah, and and even exodus even says it I am, I am executing my judgment against the gods of egypt. Yep, and if they're not real beings, they're not gods. They're not actually ontologically gods. They are not in their nature gods, but they present themselves as such. If they're not real beings, why is that statement even there, yep, like why, okay, you're going to execute judgment against something that doesn't exist? Like that's not a sign of thing. So God is executing judgment against the gods of egypt. He's executing judgment against pharaoh and the persecutors of his people. Yep, and his people are spared. And so when, when they leave, talk about evangelism, hey, we, we want your god, because your god's obviously greater. That's right.
Speaker 3:And the church grows yeah in the midst of that because of this protective element of the land of goshen. And so, christian, I want to tell you I was listening to one of jamie's interviews last year and you know he does a lot, of, a lot of interviews where folks want to know about the, the woo, woo stuff. They, you know, they want to know the any. And they were like what do I do about a nuclear war? And Jamie was like this dude, you pray you're right underneath the bomb, cause a, you won't feel anything and B, you're going to see your King. And if that doesn't comfort you, you better check your relationship with straight to the point.
Speaker 3:There you go I was like that's my dude man. So so what's the what's the value? If you know your god, you're gonna can't lose, yeah you can't lose.
Speaker 4:You're gonna do great exploits. What's that?
Speaker 3:you're gonna do great exploits if you know you're gone going to do great exploits If you know you're gone. End of Daniel. You're going to shine like the stars of the heaven and you're going to lead the many to righteousness.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we're going to have in this zone and whatever your view is on the rapture, pre-trip, post-trip, mid-trip, whatever this stuff that happens in Matthew 24 is before the great tribulation period, you know. So, whatever your view is, this is what's coming pre, post, mid, whatever. In that zone. If you know your God, you're going to have the most fantastic opportunities to demonstrate the gospel and get people saved. That's right. And get people saved, demonstrate the gospel, yes, and get people saved yes. And get people saved. That's right.
Speaker 4:Yep, whether that is, whether that is through the parts we like, like the great exploits, like you mentioned Hebrews 11, I love that text, yep. They did great exploits, like overcoming kingdoms, raising the dead, all these things we want to do, and then the other half suffer well, suffer, well. Right, we're going to do it that way too, by God's grace.
Speaker 3:Whichever way, god and His sovereignty.
Speaker 4:Choose for us, we'll do the great exploits.
Speaker 3:That's why I love Hebrews 11, because it has both. It has what people would consider great exploits. And it has suffering and if you're reading it right, suffering well is a great exploit 100%, which is why it says the world is not worthy of that.
Speaker 1:I had that little caveat, I was just going to cite it.
Speaker 4:I was just going to cite it yeah yeah, my bad, I didn't want to steal your thunder. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:It ain't yours or mine anyway, baby boy Amen amen. Yeah, so we're tracking, we're grooving. So those who are afraid, listen. If you're afraid, I would encourage you to go check your relationship with the Lord. That's right Fear. You know? Jamie said it a couple weeks ago the only fear that becomes the Christian is fear of the Lord.
Speaker 3:That's right, that's it, that's it. And so, if you're afraid, I would point you back to knowing God. So, if you're afraid, I would point you back to knowing God. I would point you back to reading the scripture fellowshipping in church, being discipled, like the basics of Christianity that help root you and ground you. Because Psalm 125 says this those who trust in the Lord are as mount sion, unshakable, yeah, and you want that unshakability. That rise of the mountain of the house of the lord will be absolutely unconquerable. Unshakable, yeah, and you know, to terence's point, the definition of victory in heaven is is sometimes different than our definition of victory on the face of the planet. Remember that the, the heavenly being, tells john stop weeping.
Speaker 3:The lion of the tribe of judah has overcome and you would expect that in the next description of of the moment, you would expect to see a lion victorious, and you know that's how we see. You see a lamb standing as if slain, obviously having died and rose again. Yeah, and so the the definition of victory from heaven's point of view may not be the same definition of victory that you have in your own self-love and selfishness. There you go. So, to the degree that that you align yourself with the kingdom of God and with the gospel and with what God is doing, you will be unshakable Trust.
Speaker 4:God, yes, you have to be strong in the gospel.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right. And the gospel is where you are unshakable. Yeah, that is the place. Read the end of Romans 8. Neither height nor depth nor angels, nor principal. And he outlines all the demonic structure, all the bad stuff is there Can separate us from the love of God and Christ, and he mentions tribulations and suffering 100%.
Speaker 4:yeah, I want to read something. All of that's there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all of that's there, right, you cannot be separated from the love of God and Christ.
Speaker 4:It's.
Speaker 3:God. And so go back to the Savior. Be won freshly again by the gospel yes, be wooed freshly again by what he's done in his cross and his resurrection. Be impressed freshly again by the fact that he wants to use you. I mean, that's what the day of Pentecost was about, and we celebrated it yesterday. Yes, it's the empowerment of the church by this event called baptism in the Holy Spirit. That's not salvation, in which his people are empowered to do what he did in his three and a half years of ministry and spread the gospel to the ends of the earth.
Speaker 3:Come on, yes, and be captured once again by the fact that the God, who's writing the greatest story ever told, has written your name in his story.
Speaker 2:Come on yes, yes, yes, amen. My favorite book World War baby.
Speaker 4:Nice.
Speaker 2:And we're part of it. We're part of it.
Speaker 4:Amen so fear not brethren.
Speaker 2:Stand in the love of the Lord. Guys, thank you so much for this nice and we're part of it. We're part of amen. So if you're not, brethren, stand in the love of the lord, guys, thank you so much for this, like a salve for my soul, honestly. It's really really great stuff. Um, absolutely man and it and it connects so many dots for me too, as a growing christian, um, and so I hope that it blesses the audience like it is, and yeah, like you know, bless me a lot of hearts, you know and so guys Like you know, something like it is Bless me A lot of hearts, you know.
Speaker 2:So, guys listening, you know, if you haven't subscribed, if you haven't set a review or a rating or anything like that, please do. It gets the show to more people. You know, yeah, if we have a little bit of time. We'd be really grateful for that. I know you guys are getting something from it because you're commenting a lot about it, so thank you so much for that. All right, well, have a great one today, guys.
Speaker 4:Yeah, praise God, man Praise God, bless everyone listening and glory to God.
Speaker 2:Amen, all right Blood and Oil out.
Speaker 1:Blood and Oil podcast is filmed and recorded by Pastor Jesse and Zane in California with Terrence on video call from the East Coast. With Terrence on video call from the East Coast. We thank our supporters and please be reminded to use your own discernment, as the views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests may not reflect those of other people, institutions or organizations. A variety of guests will join us as we discuss modern events through a biblical lens, so buckle up and enjoy the ride. Thanks to all of our supporters and praise God for the opportunity to serve him in this way. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and pray for blessings upon your day you.
