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Blood & Oil Podcast
Feeling uninspired in your faith? Discover the dynamic, life-changing power of the gospel with Blood & Oil, the Christian podcast that's redefining what it means to follow Jesus in the modern world.
Dive deep into biblical truths with cutting-edge insights. Be encouraged by authentic stories of God's transformative grace. Gain practical wisdom to deepen your relationship with Christ. Find the courage to live out your faith with bold authenticity.
Blood & Oil Podcast is for Christians who are hungry for more. More depth. More power. More of an unapologetic, uncompromising faith that transforms lives. If you're ready to go beyond surface-level discussions and experience the full force of the gospel, press play and let this podcast be your guide.
Hosts: Pastor Jesse LaForce, Zane Wheeler, and Terrence Theodore
Thank you to our supporters, and please be reminded to use your own discernment as the views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests may not reflect those of any other people, institutions, or organizations
Praise God for the opportunity to serve Him in this way. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and pray for blessings upon your day.
Intro music: "Floating Garden" by Aventure, "Espanã" by Dreamt
Blood & Oil Podcast
The Power of Gathering | Safety in the Church at the End of the Age
What do persecuted Christians around the world crave most? Not just Bibles, but the ability to gather freely in worship. While Western believers debate whether church attendance really matters, underground believers risk their lives just to meet together. This spiritual disconnect reveals something profound about what's truly at stake.
In this powerful episode, the hosts of Blood and Oil tackle the critical importance of church attendance in an age where individualism has infiltrated Christian thinking. Drawing from Scripture, church history, and contemporary accounts from the persecuted church, they build a compelling case for why gathering isn't optional but essential for spiritual protection and growth.
The conversation explores how collective prayer creates spiritual barriers that demons cannot penetrate—a reality confirmed by former occultists who couldn't enter cities during powerful revival meetings. This spiritual dynamic helps explain why Satan works relentlessly to isolate believers from their church communities. An isolated Christian becomes vulnerable to the escalating deceptions targeting believers in these last days.
Most revealing is their discussion of specific deceptions infiltrating Christian circles today, including the "divine feminine" concept that subtly distorts our understanding of God's nature. The hosts carefully distinguish between essential and non-essential beliefs, providing listeners with crucial discernment tools for navigating increasingly treacherous spiritual waters.
Whether you're a committed church member or someone who's drifted away from regular fellowship, this episode will challenge your thinking and reinvigorate your appreciation for what happens when believers gather. In a world where spiritual warfare intensifies daily, could your church attendance be more consequential than you've realized?
Blood & Oil Podcast is filmed and recorded by Pastor Jesse LaForce and Zane Wheeler in California, with Terrence Theodore on video call from the East Coast. A variety of guests will join us as we discuss modern events through a biblical lens, so buckle up and enjoy the ride. Thanks to all of our supporters, and Praise God for the opportunity to serve Him in this way. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and pray for blessings upon your day.
In a time when faith can feel flat, distracted and disengaged, the Blood and Oil podcast cuts through the noise to reveal the raw, unfiltered work of the Holy Spirit. Welcome to the Blood and Oil podcast.
Speaker 3:All right.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Blood and Oil podcast. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Good to see everyone. Terrence, my man, what's?
Speaker 4:up what's going on, guys. You know I already love being here, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, good to have you East Coast represent. I like the new background, bro. It looks like you were, you know, recording in the studio.
Speaker 4:It's like the best thing that happened to me today man.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I'm super excited to be here, yeah it's good to be here and I want to thank everyone else for listening to really important Like you guys. You guys make the show what it is y'all who are listening and if you haven't yet, please subscribe so you can get our weekly drops and, you know, keep updated on the shows and if you feel inclined, you know, leave a rating, leave a review. We love to hear from you guys. And if you all are watching on YouTube, please drop a comment with anything you feel or are experiencing from the show. Also, anything that you may have that you want to inquire about. You know that we can talk about in further episodes that kind of thing, but any encouragement is great.
Speaker 2:We love to hear feedback from you all and, like, we crave that kind of stuff because you know we're doing this to interact with you know, honestly, we're doing this to honor Jesus first and foremost.
Speaker 2:Um, you know we want to give all the glory to God, but, uh, we want to encourage and inspire people through this as well and, um, you know that's that's one of the things we want to do today.
Speaker 2:So, you guys, commenting and reflecting back to us really helps us sort of. You know, it galvanizes the process for us and it helps us kind of, you know, understand what we're doing here and how we can make it better and make improvements, and then, you know, give the people what they need as well when it comes to, you know, worshiping the Lord, and, you know, in the Christian walk for sure, and today I think it's going to be a bit of a something for me, it's a bit of a continuation from last week in terms of, you know, talking about the importance of attending church. We talked about unity in the body, christ's body, the church in our last episode, and I think you know the importance of attending church is what we're going to get into today, and I think that you know there's some nuances there that need to be sussed out and explored a little bit, and that's why we're here so happy to get into it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So when I was praying about today, one of the things that's always struck me is the stories that come out of the church across the globe, like I find the stories of martyrdom and persecution encouraging the stories of martyrdom and persecution encouraging, not because I'm looking to be martyred or because I'm looking to be persecuted, but because those who stand up under such things have just this crazy level of faith. And when you read Hebrews chapter 11, it's got these great demonstrations of faith and miracles. And then at the end it makes this shift and you're like, yay, dead or raised. Yay, blind eyes are open. Yay, moses delivers the Hebrews from Egypt. Yay, and then they were persecuted. Wait, what they were sawn in two. Wait, wait, wait what. They had their stuff taken from them. Wait, wait, a second, what like?
Speaker 3:And the entire hebrews chapter 11 starts in a conversation in hebrews chapter 10, a topic in which the author says you received joyfully the seizure of your property because you were being counted with those who were having their property seized. Okay, so the image is this they, their friends who were believers, were having their stuff taken because they were believers. They themselves were not having their stuff taken, but they chose to stand with their fellow brothers who were having their stuff taken. But they chose to stand with their fellow brothers who were having their stuff taken and so they got their stuff taken also. And he says you did it with joy because you know that you've got an everlasting possession that can never be taken from you. And that's what starts the conversation of faith. Yeah, and so these stories of persecution and such that come out of the church across the globe and I mean non-Western church, like right now we experience and we enjoy a level of freedom in the West that the global church does not experience.
Speaker 3:And there's two primary things that come out of the persecuted church or the underground church is another way to put it that is regular. That is striking to me, two things that they crave and yearn for, three things in particular that are remarkable. One is prayer, but then the two things that they crave and they yearn for is the scripture. They want the bible because they can't have the bible freely and like they will smuggle little scraps of scripture into into prison where if you get caught you go into like solitary confinement or worse, yep, and they will memorize those little strips and passages of scripture because once the guards find it and they take it. They can't take away what you've memorized, right, and so they. They yearn for, crave for the Bible in some way shape or form. Okay, the second thing you want to know what is it they yearn for, crave for?
Speaker 3:the ability to gather freely sure they learn for long for the ability to come together as church and hold a church service. Wow, that's what they want. Wow, more than the, the scripture, and and the ability to gather. And the ability to gather is what they yearn for, crave for, they desire, right, wow, and so we know that persecution is coming. Like the idea that things are good for Christians right now, that's only really in the West, relatively speaking. Okay, syria I was reading a uh, an article earlier where they are absolutely concerned with whether or not there's going to be genocide against christians in syria. Well, okay, yeah, the persecution is crazy. Um 200 nigerian christians or something like that.
Speaker 3:Uh, somewhere in africa like a week we could go two weeks ago were killed like a week, week ago, two weeks ago, were killed and nobody in the west is talking about it, right so that we live in a western bubble of comfort. We live in a western bubble of protected what, what we would consider protected speech. We, this thing, this, this foundational, uh, value that, that america and, because of america, other western countries have adopted freedom of expression, freedom of speech, the ability to as long as I'm not absolutely harming somebody, that that I'm free to to speak and and and feel and share whatever it is that I want, like, even if it's the most vile thing, I get to think that and speak that freely, without threat of jail or persecution. That's actually changing and that's on purpose. And the reason why it's changing and on purpose is for the last 15 or 20 years, the, the political powers that be in the spiritual powers behind them, have been doing what they can to make speech violence right and so you.
Speaker 3:you've got this shift in the atmosphere that what I say is now threatening to you. My words constitute violence against you, Because if we can get the masses to believe that and turn in that direction now, I can now be arrested for my speech because my speech harms somebody.
Speaker 2:Preaching the gospel prayer. That's right. Well, that's the future of it, 100%.
Speaker 3:And, in particular, here's what it's centered around. Yeah, sexuality.
Speaker 2:Right now? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:LGBTQ ideology Right. There was a gentleman in Britain like an 80-year-old preacher or something this was two years ago-ish who got arrested because he shared what the scripture taught about marriage between a man and a woman, and somebody there heard him said that is offensive to me and is not safe language for me. See, there's that safe danger, violence, idea, yeah, and so they arrested him. Now he got out. You know the, the present way that the courts are set up and stuff like that, like you're not going to be able to like until until some some more crazy shifts and changes happen, which, by the way, I think that the, the, the present safety language that we have concerning our hot topic, political stuff is is pointing in that same direction from the other side yeah so it was pushed this way from this side.
Speaker 3:Now it's being pushed this way from this side and the end goal is the same right the end goal is the security state, and that that's what's on the horizon, right, because that's what revelation says has to happen. This system in which everything is forced into worshiping this entity, this being, this person, the antichrist, the man of sin, yeah, um, or you can't sell or trade, and and if you don't take the mark, then you're beheaded. All of that presumes a one-world system that is governed and controlled authoritatively. So it is 100% despotic, but it is systemic and it's global, and so that pushes that direction.
Speaker 3:So, at any rate, the point that we started with was the persecuted church longs for gathering. Yeah, they want to meet, want to be able to meet together and not be under the threat of being taken to jail or dying or persecution or whatever, or dying or persecution or whatever. And in the West right now, we've got so many Christians that, for the sake of individualism, they're like it's just me and Jesus and they default to passages of scripture that say things like whenever two or three are gathered, he is there in their midst, when that's not what that's about yeah do you really think that jesus is saying because whenever two or three are gathered in my name, I am there in my midst?
Speaker 3:that is an excuse to forsake the assembling of yourselves, because that's that's what you're inferring, right, when you use that as a reason to not gather? Yeah, right you use that as a reason to not be a part of a local, committed fellowship, right, the? And, by the way, that that passage, whenever two or three are gathered in my name.
Speaker 3:Here's the qualifier in my name you know what that means that means that you're doing what he wants you to do, not what you want to do, right, yeah, and you're using that scripture as a passage to do not what you want to do, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you're using that scripture as a passage to do what you want to do, not what he wants you to do. Right, because in my name doesn't mean just because Zane and Jesse and Terrence have said the name of Jesus today, that he's now in our midst. Right Doesn't like when you you do that you've made the name of jesus a witchcraft trinket, sure?
Speaker 3:yep invoked him 100 like like he's somehow obligated to be present because I said the phonetic sound jesus, or. Or let's get real spiritual zane ready. Yeshua the sacred name, yeah, or. Or how about this one the name?
Speaker 4:yah, or which is popular now right, the.
Speaker 3:The sacred name namers yahuwah name. Call him yahuwah right, because that's who he really is. Look, the substance is. Substance is the point. Right, amen. If you don't have the substance, it doesn't matter what name you use. Amen. And your relationship to the substance of the one who has the name is the point, and that's why Acts 19, when the seven sons of Sceva tried to name the name of Jesus, when the seven sons of Sceva tried to name the name of Jesus, those spirits they knew. You don't have relationship to the substance that you are referring to. Right, yeah, right it as an excuse to not gather, when the scriptures actually say, as we see his coming approaching, we are supposed to gather more. That's right. Right. Do not forsake the assembling of yourselves, but even more, as the day approaches, listen to his, his command. At that point, provoke one another to love and good deeds.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Your ability to love and do the right things directly connected to you having church more and more as the day of Jesus gets closer and closer.
Speaker 4:Right, yeah, right, that's good.
Speaker 3:So to use those passages to try to say oh, I don't have to gather, I don't have to be apart, or here's another one Anyone who's a Christian is the church. We're all living stones, right? It's not about a building. And the truth is, you're right, it's not about a building, but those living stones have to be together.
Speaker 4:About a building, but those living stones have to be together, yeah, and right now that happens, ready in a building. Thank god too, for the element's sake further crazy.
Speaker 3:The seven churches of asia minor book of revelation, chapter two and chapter three. Those are brick and mortar locations, yep, okay. And each one of them has accolades and rebukes from the Lord, which means he is considering that local church covenanted fellowship differently than the other local church covenanted fellowship and their belonging to one or another qualifies them for the promises or the rebukes in which he gives that church.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So the church of the open door, the like.
Speaker 3:there's two that don't get rebukes, one under persecution in Philadelphia, philadelphia, I think it's Philadelphia the church is it Philadelphia yeah where he says you have a little power and I've given you an open door that no one can shut and no one can open. It's the only one that gets that accolade so ready. Only the people at that church receive that. So the one at Thyatira or the one at Pergamum or the one at Ephesus does not have that blessing that belonged to that church and that church does not have the rebuke that belonged to that one.
Speaker 3:Right Now there are ways of interpreting that passages. These are kinds and types of churches, sure, whatever. But immediate context, those are seven churches that have brick and mortar locations in asia minor, in which jesus addresses them by blessing and rebuke, by promise and by correction that belong to that local church.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:So, yes, the Bible does teach local expression, and rooted and grounded.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Amen, yeah, yeah, I mean it's like when I think about the church gathering, I'm really inspired by some of the accounts that come out of like Africa and those places where they're actually know in the spirit, where you know the enemy is actually held at bay right when there can't be sort of this interaction with the demonic because of the prayer, the power of the prayer. So it's like when the folks get together, when the Christians get together, it's not just one Christian praying yeah, there's something done in the spirit when one Christian prays, but when they get together, that's right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there's something done in the spirit when one Christian prays, but when they get together, that's right, yes, well said that's when the real power comes.
Speaker 3:Exactly Did you see the clip I sent you with the Satanist yeah, who was like the witchcraft, the witch's coven of that local area, couldn't get into. Whatever it is that they wanted to do against that church.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:But it wasn't because of that church. It was because of the church near them that was praying for them. That was praying for them Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And then the accounts of folks who, like him, who were in the occult and you know, remembered and were regaling, you know, in their testimony of how they came to Jesus.
Speaker 2:they were talking about the time before when they were still in the occult, talking about how they couldn't enter into certain cities when crusades were going down there when there were certain men of God who were praying on a stage to the entire city and people were getting saved and they were worshiping. They literally couldn't be near the city Correct? Wow? Because it was too spiritually powerful. The Holy Spirit would keep them at bay. There was a sort of a line of angels protecting that city you know that's right. And they were told don't go near it or you'll be destroyed. Yeah, that's the power of prayer right there and that's the power of gathering.
Speaker 3:That's interesting too that you mentioned the angelic, because for the seven churches of Asia Minor minor, they each have an angel over them, right, and so the church that's over philadelphia, or the the angel that's over the church of philadelphia is not the angel that's over the church of diatira, right, and so belonging to a particular local expression continues there. There are. There are types and uh, structures that are over you, that exist in one, that do not exist in another one, and change from one to the other amen no wild.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely yeah. There was a vision someone had a vision yesterday in church um at north bay and lighthouse here in santa rosa of, uh, four angels at the corners of the building that were, you know, during worship that were protecting the place and kind of looking over the place just towering over yeah holding space over the place. So, just, they were granted a vision, while they were praying, of these amazing beings just watching over the place. But something tells me that those, those, they don't switch out all the time, like no they.
Speaker 3:Those are sentinels over that congregation so the the math on angelic assignment is mission right the the angelic is sent to accomplish the mission of god.
Speaker 3:When, when cornelius is given the the angelic revelation, it's because god intends to include the Gentiles, and so God sends the angel to tell Cornelius go and send for Peter and Joppa. Peter comes and preaches the gospel. Angelic assignment is always according to mission, and mission is how the trees and the lampstands function in Zechariah 3 and 4 and in the book of Revelation, and those are always local. Yes, always. The trees in the lamp stand in Zechariah 3 were there to ready build the church.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:That local expression and in particular in that context, it was the second temple. They had just come out of captivity in Babylon and Persia. God had sent them back to Jerusalem to build the walls of Jerusalem and to, in particular, rebuild the temple. And God is highly concerned about dirt Anyone listening? He cares about the dirt, the promised land itself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, he cares about the dirt, the promised land itself?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, and he talks about the land itself cries out because of the sins of the people and the wells that the fathers have dug were geographically local wells that Abraham had dug, that Isaac then goes and re-digs, had dug. That Isaac then goes and re-digs and there's two with contention and the third one he gets and it's no longer contention and there's a whole bunch of symbology that's paralleled there in that passage. But angelic ministry in particular comes according to assignment and assignment belongs to the olive trees and the olive trees are the leaders of the local church.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:In Zechariah 3 and 4, it was Joshua and Zerubbabel, and in the book of Revelation, the lampstands are clearly the churches. That's what Jesus calls them, right. And so every lampstand has a son of fresh oil, assuming it's an authorized church by God, by which the anointing gets into the people. And so if you are divorcing yourself from that local expression, you are robbing yourself of the ability to receive the oil, the spirit that you're supposed to have. And you're now in danger of being one of the ability to receive the oil, the spirit that you're supposed to have, sure, and you're now in danger of being one of the five foolish virgins in Matthew 25.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3:Do not have enough oil.
Speaker 2:Right, right. I want to touch on that really quick.
Speaker 4:What you just said is pretty much where I was tracking, so I want to go back just a little bit. I wonder like, notwithstanding the actual legitimate reasons people miss church because sometimes people are sick there's various things going on that legitimize their need to stay home.
Speaker 3:Legit reasons are not in view, of course.
Speaker 4:Indeed, but I wonder how close faith is tied into church attendance. He was remarking on the body of believers, praying and so forth and therefore seeing results occur, and of course you have this in the scriptures, you have this throughout church history, even up to our time. I wonder if there's a tie, or I need to go to church because God wants me to do my part alongside the other body. I wonder where we would be, as far as God's will is concerned, in the earth if we would be doing more. And I wonder if there's a connection there.
Speaker 4:People perhaps, I think, don't go to church because they don't see themselves as part of a bigger plan. They think if I miss church it's no big deal, I'm not really that important anyhow. But if they were to see themselves again to go back to what Zane said as a piece of a puzzle, of a bigger picture that God specifically uses and, dare I say, need not to say that God needs anything. But God again makes ordains, both the end and the means and you're a mean, a means If we would see ourselves in light of that reality, I wonder if we would have better, more. You know church and not be spotty, be more excited to go to church, be more on missions, et cetera, et cetera. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, agreed, yeah, I hear that. Yeah, because I was thinking, when Jesse was talking too, that the body of believers have individually, they have authority over the demonic. They have authority in the kingdom, and when they gather, that authority just multiplies. Yes, and now they're taking territory for the demonic. They have authority in the kingdom and when they gather, that authority just multiplies. And now they're taking territory for the kingdom, right, and the church itself, where we know we live in a fallen kingdom. The satanic realm, essentially, is the world, but we're taking ground for the kingdom when we show up for church, because that space is now taken by Christians, right. So this mission of gathering to take ground for the kingdom, I think, is what you're getting at too. It's sort of a higher calling, more so than I don't feel like going today. It's okay if I don't show up, no one really noticed. Well, it's important that you do, because you're a part of that mission that we were just discussing.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. There's a higher calling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there of that mission that we just we were just discussing, absolutely, absolutely yeah, there's a higher patriotism too, showing up, which is that you're assembling in order to take ground for the kingdom and hold that.
Speaker 4:and I think there's parallels in the scripture too. I think of, like, uh, the time of nehemiah, when the tower, when the wall, was being built, right, and if those men, it says in the scriptures, who didn't come, it would affect the other people building the tower, so they had to. Who didn't come, it would affect the other people building the tower. So they had to understand that their seemingly small part to play was indeed part of a larger reality, right, and if they negated their responsibility to show up and build a wall, weapon in hand, they would have lost and the wall would have not been built.
Speaker 4:And so it's the same thing, I think, with the church. Like, christians need to see themselves and I suppose, suppose, in some sense this is the task of the leaders of the church to kind of remind people, to build them up and say, hey, yes, individually, I suppose, in some regards you're small, but God didn't call you to just be selfish, just assuming this sort of like seemingly humble position whereby you see yourself small and do nothing. No, that's not humility, that's actually pride, because God has said you are a small part of a bigger whole, namely the church, and so therefore, show up for the sake of God's glory and God's work in the world.
Speaker 2:You see, Amen, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. You're belittling the mission in a lot of ways when you're just believing that it's. You know, you're just a single individual, a drop in the bucket, so to speak, right right, with no purpose. The bucket itself needs you, you know.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, those members that are more public don't need accolades, but those members that are I think the King James says unseemingly or those that are more private, or those who are not seen as much, deserve double honor. So that, so that those who are less seemingly feel appreciated, but those who are more public, they don't need it, because the publicity itself is its own. And and he's got this, he, he, he begins to say and he argues from it every part is necessary, right, yes, right, every part is necessary. Where would the toe be without the eye? Where would the toe be without the eye? Where would the nose be without the hand? Where would then the leg be, excuse me, without the arm? You know those, those things, and so the necessity of a body, and I think you know, we found this out there. There are things that that science used to think were not necessary for the human body. And then we find out, actually it does something, right, you?
Speaker 1:know it was the gallbladder or the appendix.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know these weird things that we think are appendages right, and then we end up finding out later no, actually, every single part is needed, right, and and to your point, terence, absolutely, faith is necessary, and it's the, it's the I am. And for us, as Pentecostals Charismatics, we understand we've got like, if I'm making myself available, two things really matter Am I willing? Am I available? If I'm willing, okay, god, whatever you want to do, and I'm available, I put my own purpose and mission aside right now and say yes to yours. God will use anybody Right.
Speaker 3:One of the biggest arguments that the cessationists use against the, the charismatic Pentecostals, or those of us who believe in the gifts of the spirit, is a is a. It is a straw man argument, it's not even, it is ad hominem. Okay, it's, or against the man. It's not the real thing. They say things like you know, if you're, if you're, if you really operate in the gift of healing, go and clear out that hospital. Okay, read the text. Those gifts only operate according to the will of god, right, it's always been the case. It's never been different.
Speaker 3:To argue that the apostles had some freedom with the gifts, that was according to their own will, is not true. They always operated according to the will of God. And so, if we are to Terrence's point, coming to church willing and available and expecting God to do something, he can give a word of knowledge. He can give a word of prophecy, something he can give a word of knowledge, he can give a word of prophecy, he can. Somebody can pray and get healed, somebody. You know that can happen at any service and the only thing that matters is a is God doing it? And B are you willing and available? And then posture yourself in that way? Then you realize how indispensable the local body is and and to that point, for those who don't want to gather locally, you, how are you going to have elders anoint you with oil to pray for the sick, for healing, like James?
Speaker 3:says if you don't have a local structure.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that cannot happen, apart from a brick and mortar local thing in which there are elders Right, which you know. Good argument to be made that elders are also pastors. Yeah, the idea of a pastor, which is a gift to the body, presumes a flock.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, that is gathering together, not two or three, in the name of jesus, there, he is all that, all that's there absolutely, yeah, yeah, and they, I I think I think there are a lot of people that would argue against gathering because, again, like you said, where two or three are gathered and I think it's sort of a cop-out in a lot of ways because it can come from a lot of different places. And I think the last few episodes we've done and say church hurt and then unity in the body, of course we spoke on these kinds of things church hurt and then unity in the body. Of course we spoke on these kinds of things like if you've gotten hurt or have experienced drama or have been harmed in some way by someone in the church, you're gonna be reluctant to come. But like terence was referencing it's like it's, you know, there's a higher calling here.
Speaker 2:You kind of put that stuff aside and I think our our episode on the unity really helped, you know, give some practical tips on how to do so, one of which obviously is forgiveness.
Speaker 3:Huge.
Speaker 2:Huge. Yeah, absolutely Let it go. Let God deal with it. You know pray about it always. But I think you know we I was I was having this discussion with a pastor recently about numbers right and how, when certain transitions occur in a church, sometimes the numbers drop right. Sometimes the numbers go up, and I think you know what we're really talking about in a lot of ways is numbers. You know, because that's the only thing we would be able to base this conversation on is how many people are actually attending or how little there are actually showing up. But when it comes to numbers, it's like I'm of the mind where, if the numbers drop, then you have people who are perhaps more faithful, who are still showing up, and those who were lacking in that faith or those who were lacking in the ability to show up for the will of God, to do the will of God and be open to that, they stopped coming and perhaps that's I don't know was that taking away from the body in some way.
Speaker 3:Let's talk about that a little bit. So I think there's a couple of passages that we understand in the scripture that that's kind of the nature of what's happening with the kingdom of God in total and then in microcosm, in the local church. Things like Jesus says the kingdom of God is like a dragnet, things like jesus says the kingdom of god is like a dragnet, and this idea of a huge like if you've ever seen a trawler, a fishing trawler, it's got this huge net and it just gathers all kinds of fish and then they pull it up and they open it up right. You've seen, like the, the, the videos where the, the fishermen, open up the net and just go spilling all over the deck of the boat okay, that dragnet and he says it gets all kinds of fish, both good and bad.
Speaker 3:Right yeah, right okay there you go there, there's this idea that the kingdom of god, in its, in its preaching, in, in, in its drawing, draws both good and bad. Jesus says go into the highways and byways and then bring into my house that my house may be filled, and that house again is. Is is structured, local language, okay, sure. And what happens? Somebody comes in, they're not dressed right, and he goes, you're getting cast out because you didn't come to the presence of the king dressed right, you don't. You don't have the wedding clothes on.
Speaker 3:I think is what it is you're not dressed properly, things like the parable of the seed and soils where you've got seed that's scattered, snatched away by the birds is is snatched away by the demonic, never right, goes into the ground, never takes root, never produces anything. And then there are two soils that are depicted as the cares of the world and persecution that are both having to do with internal things. Inside of me, persecution comes and I'm not strong enough to stand against. It is an internal thing against me. It's not about the external persecution, it's whether I can stand or not, is about what's happening on the inside, my personal, my person. And the other one is the cares of this world, which again is the internal person, whether or not I'm concerned with money, or I'm concerned with, you know, family, or I'm concerned with whatever.
Speaker 3:The, the host of reasons, the host of host of idols, belong to pit to people, right, what they care about. And he says this it's very interesting to me that the seed goes into the soil and they receive the word of God with joy which seems to be born again. Language, right, okay, which you know, the Calvinists who are listening, or whatever. May you know that that's irrelevant to the conversation, but what it seems like they've had some sort of an encounter with God, but then it's choked out and they don't produce anything Right. And then there's good soil that produces 30, 60, and 100-fold Okay. And the problem is what's happening in the soils?
Speaker 2:Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:Right, and so the these, these various descriptions of the kingdom of God and things that happen when the gospel is preached and et cetera, is very clear that that there tends to be a drawing of of those who are legitimately saved and those who may not be legitimately saved at all and and we see whether or not they're legitimately saved by what they produce the fruits, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:Right, you know, it's fruit. The other, the other parable, is the. The kingdom of god is a field in which the, the son of man, goes and sows the word and sons of the kingdom sprout up, but he says overnight, after he sowed the word, an enemy comes and sows bad seeds which are sons of the evil, one.
Speaker 3:Right now, he does say that the field is the world. So this, this isn't, in total, the church. Like some of the other parables, this is this. This is the greater vision of what's happening in the earth, where both the sons of the righteous and the sons of the wicked grow up together. But wheat and tares looks very similar, sure, yep, and you don't necessarily see the difference until they're mature, yeah, yeah, then the th, until they're mature, yeah, yeah, then the threshing floor has to happen.
Speaker 2:Then the threshing floor has to happen Right, and that's kind of the the shakeup in the church where we see the true colors of those where, you know I wouldn't say that you know it's the folks that just stopped showing up, though it's it's like for whatever reason, they just didn't stop showing up. But I think there's pastors can kind of be hard on themselves sometimes, I'm sure when numbers drop Right, is it me Right, and so Yup. So I think that, like you know, it's good to remember for those listening who are concerned with such things numbers at church that yeah, this is a threshing, these things have to happen sometimes.
Speaker 4:And promise to happen too. I think of 1 John when he says they departed from us because they're not all of us, for if they had been with us or been a part of us, they would have stayed, but they went out to display that they were not all of us, for if they had been with us or been a part of us, they would have stayed, but they went out to display that they were not all of us. And so there's this reality to Jesse's point like. Additionally, there is the instance where the we and Tia stay together until the end and then God's angels makes the difference here. He separates at that point. But then, in real time too, there's the they're going out of us to display that they're not all of us. So it's both, and you know. And so, as a pastor, jess, you know this is just part of the call, and it's not you, it's not you who brought them there in the first place, it's not you who's going to keep them.
Speaker 4:And I think this is something pastors need to remind themselves, because we're people and when we're, you know, when we lose friends and or congregation members, or whatever the case may be, we tend to look inside and say, as you said. Is it myself? Was it me? Should I do something better? But no, if you're faithful to the word, then remember that this happened to Jesus too. He had a whole bunch of disciples. They all left him. He looks to the 12, he turns around to them and he says are you going to leave too? And they say you know? Peter says those magnificent words where are we going to go? Lord, you alone have the words of truth that leads to eternal life. So the 12 remain, but the multitude of disciples left. And that's just part of the call. So we have to remember that as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think to your point in that passage in particular also is that it had to do with doctrine and teaching. He said you know, this teaching is too hard. And to the other citation that you made, they went out from us to prove that they were not of us. Like, the greater historical understanding of that is, it was the Judaizers. It was those who wanted to subject Christians to the law. They had to get cut. They had to do this, they had it. And so the greater picture is Paul is going around planting churches and then these people who were originally Christians or who were identified originally as Christians from Jerusalem went out from Jerusalem and began to follow him around other places trying to tell people you need to get circumcised, you need to observe the law, you need to do this, what we mentioned earlier you need to call Jesus Yeshua instead of Jesus or you know? Just stupid stuff.
Speaker 3:And the point is is that it was over doctrine. People were believing the wrong things, and in particular, 1 Timothy, chapter 4, I have this in my notes here and this is what's presently happening. The Spirit explicitly says in later times that's now some will fall away from the faith. Doing what? Paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons? Yes, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience, as with a branding iron men who forbid marriage, advocate abstaining from foods which god has created to be joyfully shared by those who believe and rejoice in the truth. Okay, so what's the point?
Speaker 3:Part of the dynamic of the end times and we've been talking about this a lot, and as we should, I mean just before recording we're talking about the crazy amount of floods that hit the US in particular in the last like five days is insane, wow. And they're like oh, climate change? Nope, oh, somebody's seeding the weather. No, it is. The bible says that the groanings and birth pain of this creation, the birth pangs, are going to increase as his coming gets nearer. Right, amen. Expect to see to our conversations in in the past. Systemic conflict Isn't just conflict between people, right, it is a rise of the earth going. I don't like this. Yep the groanings is what what Paul says in Romans, chapter eight?
Speaker 3:And so what's the nature of what's happening? Is that in, in these end times, there are going to be a rise of demonic teachings that are meant to draw people away? Right, yep, and you will be drawn away if that's what's inside of you. Right, yep, if you are not fully committed to jesus, no matter what I've said, it this way from the pulpit.
Speaker 3:Whatever your price is, the devil or the flesh will figure out what it is and it will be presented to you. Wow, and if you haven't determined beforehand, I've been bought and paid for with the blood of jesus. You will be tempted and you will pay that price. Though they will, they will present that price to you and you will fall away yeah, right, wow, that's terrifying that's right. And you know the matthew 25, this deceiving lying signs and wonders that, if possible, will lead astray, ready Even the elect, yeah Right.
Speaker 3:Every single person who names the name Christian is going to be presented with not just a series of teachings, but a demonstration to back the teachings lying signs and wonders. That's right. And if you do not have a relationship with the one true living god, not the creator, jesus right not. Not the great spirit in the sky, jesus not the.
Speaker 3:That's what it means relationship to the person who has the name right yeah he's this, only one name given amongst men under heaven, by which men must be saved the name of Jesus. That's it. He is the gate, he is the doorway, he is the way, the truth and the life you don't come to. The one named Jesus and not a fake Jesus, because there are fake Jesuses Got that in my notes too Spirits who present themselves as Christ that are not Christ. Had the conversation about the, the podcast where the dude was had died and was going through the second heavens, and he went into the third heaven in the throne room and he saw in the second heavens, false jesus is running around, wow, wow, right. And he said if he had, if I remember correctly, if he hadn't made it into the third heaven, he would have fallen for these, these lies second heavens being a demonic realm too.
Speaker 3:Right, right, yeah, exactly second heavens, being the spirit realm that we don't see exactly yeah, yeah, versus the third heaven, where you know where god exists in his throne room, the right.
Speaker 2:You know throne room place second heaven contains good light and dark, though too right. It does just their virtual realm overlay, correct?
Speaker 3:yeah, got it, it's everything, everything that we don't see, yeah, second heavens yeah, yeah um. So, at any rate, what's what's happening? That this deception will come by the means of lying signs and wonders and the doctrines of demons. And it's exactly meant it. It will be laid hold of, second thessalonians, by those who ready receive not the truth used to receive a love of the truth come on yeah yeah, you are being pulled away because you don't love truth yeah, yeah you are leaving what the truth has picked because you don't love truth, right, yeah?
Speaker 3:And and because it's deceitful and it's lying. You may be convinced it's Jesus, yep, but yeah, second Corinthians 11 says that there is false Jesuses.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep. So when it comes to deceptions that Christians might fall prey to, let's get into that a little bit. False Jesus, obviously top of the totem pole. That's the scary one, you know. There was one I ran across on Instagram, I think, a few days ago, of a woman who was asking AI about something. Wow, about, uh, the lord coming when he came and talking about how the capacity that every human has to reach this sort of, in this stage of enlightenment, and all he was doing was reminding us of our own capacity to do so. Wow that he left us with those teachings so that we could, we could also achieve this christed state, christ consciousness, obviously right yeah, but the ai was was reflecting this.
Speaker 2:This was recent, you know what I mean. So this is a very, still very alive and real. Yeah, 100 um, and you know it's it's. It's a tough one because it's just a degree off right, and it's so tempting too because it puts it it. It speaks to what it does it honestly. What it does is it speaks to the spiritual royalty that is truly amidst us. It was truly within us, we, the spiritual royalty that is truly amidst us. It was truly within us. We are spiritual royalty. However, we are sinners in the soul, and the soul will lead us astray. The heart will lead us astray. And you're negating that entire fact when you state that you're becoming wasted on your way to ascension and you're doing all these things to manifest your life.
Speaker 2:You're negating the fact that your heart is leading you astray.
Speaker 3:Yeah, deceitfully wicked. Above all things, yeah, yeah, you're forgetting about the soul.
Speaker 2:The soul's in the way, yeah.
Speaker 3:Fixed Owned deception yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. So Christ rejuvenates and resurrects our spirit as well and is perfecting and sanctifying our soul in the process. But the spirit is truly spiritual royalty. There's a piece of us that awakens into that. Yes, so that paradigm of this Christ consciousness, christ teaching us how to become Christed, is speaking to that right there and totally negating the fact that the soul is wicked. Yeah Right, very unfortunate False Jesus, absolutely so. That's leading a lot of people astray. I know too. Another one is um. When noel gave her testimony she'd managed, mentioned preterism and you said preterism or pentecostalism. You were right, because when I talked to that pastor at the mega church I was at the mega church and I talked.
Speaker 2:I asked hey, uh, what do y'all think of like pentecostalism? And uh, you know speaking in tongues and all this he said we don't talk about that here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can go to my house. Yeah, exactly, I have no church down by the fairgrounds. You can go check out.
Speaker 2:But preterism was something I actually read into months after I had gotten saved. It was probably like a year after I got saved. But anyway, you know I'm a Christian, I looked into it, you know what I mean and it's fascinating stuff. You know, a lot of people out there are talking about us being in the little season of Satan, right, and just you know. Whatever it is is that you know?
Speaker 2:I think what the argument is essentially is that we were deceived in at some point in the 1800s there was, you know, false Christian values that came out, that spread amongst the church, that are now carried into this century, that are essentially talking about us, you know, being pre-rapture, we're waiting for Jesus' return, all of these things. But essentially, we're pre-millennial reign. Right, we haven't reached that yet. Now there's a line of thinking and these are Christians that are talking about this, that are talking about no, the millennial reign happened through the medieval period and that was all covered up, right, and it's a whole conspiracy theory.
Speaker 2:Amidst this, you know, this sort of theological discussion too, which is really interesting. So there's a lot being tossed around there, but essentially the argument is we're not, you know, waiting for the rapture. It's happened and we're in Satan's little season and that's why everything's so messed up, and you're seeing the Grammy Award shows and they're just honoring the devil at all costs, right, and these are things that I think are leading people in a certain direction. You want to speak to that a little bit, because I know you've heard about this.
Speaker 3:So that idea is that 99% of the book of Revelation already happened. Right, it's called full preterism. And so their view, and even partial preterists, those who believe that some of it happened is that we are essentially post-millennial. There is a post-millennialismialism also. Right, that is not necessarily full predal predarism. There's also an all millennialism, that says that the millennial millennium is a. It is a uh happening in a period well it, yeah, yes, it is a uh analogy or a metaphor. Right it, it's.
Speaker 1:It's not a literal right thousandyear reign that kind of thing.
Speaker 3:And so the preterists that you're talking about, the partial preterists that you're talking about, believe that, essentially, we are in the season of the release of Satan to go around and deceive all of the nations of the earth, and then the dog may gawk, and then the triumphant return of Jesus.
Speaker 3:And then the triumphant return of Jesus. I'm really glad you brought this up, because there are certain things in Christianity and I teach this at the Bible School what we call the Augustinian Creed or the Augustine Creed, depending on how you pronounce his name and it's accredited to him and he reportedly said this an essential's unity in non-essentials liberty, and in all things charity.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, and so what he meant by that was in the things that make a Christian a Christian like. We must believe this, we must have unity. We cannot divide over the nature of God. We cannot divide over the nature of god. We cannot divide over the nature of salvation. We cannot divide over the personal work of jesus. We cannot those kinds of things.
Speaker 3:Right yeah there's things that are absolutely necessary for you to even be considered a christian, right okay. But in the secondary things, what we call non-essential matters, got it, we've got freedom, bro. You want to believe in a flat earth, whatever right. You want to believe in a pre-trib or a post-trib rapture, whatever right? Like, like, believe that, whatever those things are non-essential. Here's another one gifts of the spirit. Yeah, like I can fellowship with a brother in Christ who doesn't believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit exist today. A cessation.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's a secondary matter, it's not a primary matter, it's not an essential matter. The problem is is when people out there begin to make secondary matters primary. So I was watching this guy who's a pre-trib rapture guy and he's talking to another guy and saying you're not saved if you don't believe in a pre-trib rapture there you go.
Speaker 2:That's about it's a solid. He makes a salvation 100.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when you start a non-essential matter, a non-salvific matter, to suddenly now being salvific or even even necessary for us to even get along right yeah, like you don't. You don't believe in the gifts of the holy spirit, so so I'm not even going to be your friend really yeah, yeah, like that's not that's that's, that's immaterial so it sounded a lot like in a demonic assignment.
Speaker 3:I 100% and it's the flesh a lot too, and I'll tell you what happened yeah, is that? People go gnostic. Yeah, absolutely. And and the propensity of the flesh to be like oh, I got I got secret knowledge zane yeah I got, let me tell you that's why I think it's demonic though you got that gnosis revelation reality homie.
Speaker 3:All you did was watch a stupid tiktok youtube yeah, yeah like you you got some, some demonic revelation. Look, there's nothing new under the sun, dude like the slovatsky crow like the whole zeitgeist thing yeah yeah, yeah realize, like they watch the zeitgeist video or they they get in there. They're like oh, horace and jesus are are aligned. No, dude, horace lost his penis. That's not in the bible yeah, not at all, it's good yeah, like people don't understand that stuff has been demolished years ago it muddies the whole gospel.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it totally does, yeah and what happens is we've got a new generation of people who don't know any better yeah, and so then begins to shop around the old lies that they caught people with last time, yeah, and then they catch people up again this time.
Speaker 2:Right. It stimulates again intellectualism, which is self-help 100% that narcissism Exactly Pride ego. Self-gratification through intellectualism.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, a false intellectualism because it's lazy. It's not even a real erudite. It's, like you said, YouTube and TikTok. You watch a six minute video.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:All of a sudden, you're an erudite and scholar. Now right.
Speaker 3:Like no, no, it doesn't work like that. You're an expert, because two different TikTokers told you something.
Speaker 4:Google told you this Right right.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, which, by the way, lends itself back to the point we were talking about too. Like people typically people who leave church for non-legitimate reasons are people like this who don't have that love that we've been talking about since we've started our podcast, and so they're characterized by these common themes here, like a love for self so as to not deny self to go to church, and then a denial of the love of the truth. Like you mentioned before, they love not the truth and therefore God gives them over to their own nonsense. Like you mentioned before, they love not the truth and therefore God gives them over to their own nonsense. And so these type of things, when you see these type of things happening to your point again, jess it's a sign of the time for sure. I think that's one of the biggest signs.
Speaker 4:I'm not looking for wars in Israel, I'm not looking for floods although those things are necessary too a sort of heart whereby narcissism and self-love is, like, exacerbated to the point where you run away from church because you feel like I don't need church, I am so wise in and of myself, or, to think it like this, I don't need to go to church. Those people could fend for themselves because, again, we're a body. The body needs that. Where would the air be without the eyes and so forth? Right, and so if you're not thinking on that level, like how can I go serve my brother, which is the natural tendency of somebody who's born of the spirit, a desire to serve, not so much to even be served, but to serve, to see that as the greater thing? If that's not you, then it's inevitable that you will fall for these things we're talking about and then ultimately fall away from the truth, because that's what you want ultimately.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it satisfies a part of us that wants to truly understand and grok the gospel itself, which is insanely complex and we're going to talk about that in future episodes without having to do the work, without having to pray, without having to have a relationship without having to read the. Bible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1:Well, now you have well said yep, Without having to die to self. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Without having to die of self without having to read the Bible, I now understand. Oh, jesus was just a man. They took him off the cross before he died. They hid him away. He didn't actually get resurrected, right? Yeah, all of this stuff.
Speaker 3:And then they gave him psychedelics when he was on the cross, so he rose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or to the completely other Gnostic side, where he just a spirit yep 100.
Speaker 3:Yeah, did you die for real?
Speaker 2:yeah, never an illusion never even came into the that's islam too, wow yeah right, but yeah, wow, I didn't know that yeah, insanely gnostic. So these are dangerous things and you know, like that's, that's, that was crowleyism stuff, full-blown gnostic you know what? I mean, but this stuff is permeates, you know, christendom in a lot of ways, because people are allowing it in the doors open. You know what I mean? Yep, with the gnostic gospels too. That came 47, I think.
Speaker 2:You know those, those things, man oh the nag hamadi, yeah exactly that really, that really kicked off the new age movement yeah, in a lot of ways yeah because you had the bovatskyism, you had crowley, now applying that practical gnosticism and the hermeticism, yeah, and then in you know, the early 1900s and then, man, when that happened, mid-century, it's like that kicked into gear the whole self-worship movement yes because, the gnostic gospels are all about that. Yeah, and the history channel discovery.
Speaker 3:They've been shopping that stuff around. Yes, you know, yes, the, the, the gospels that the, the Council of Nicaea suppressed, and all this just in the craziest part. So I watch this stuff and because I've got an education and I know the facts, I can sniff that stuff out from a mile away. This is what they're thinking this is where they're going, this is what's happening, et cetera, et cetera, and so I shut the stuff off, but without fail. I always get people coming back to me and asking me about these yes yes, they and and the the truth is is they.
Speaker 2:They just don't know yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. It's ignorance, but the hard line that you're right is crucifixion of self. Yep, it really is, because that's never in there, right? That's never in there, right? That's never in there, right. It's always self-deification. Right, it really is. And again it takes the pressure off of the lack of understanding that we have of the actual gospel that we have to die. Actually, what it is is the responsibility of the gospel, that's what it is.
Speaker 3:Like understanding whatever that'll come, yeah, but the responsibility that the gospel really outlines death to self, that has to happen, and there's a couple of spots in the New Testament that talk about the obedience of faith.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Romans 1.
Speaker 3:Right, and I think there's another passage too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Romans 14 as well.
Speaker 3:I mark them, because obedience and faith are such a hot topic in the Christian church at large. You know on, you know where's my will start and his will, and how do I obey from his will. It can get complicated in figuring out. How does God get the glory if I obey and yet where do I get the credit? Does he get the credit and all this stuff? But the truth is that the scripture is very clear that the true faith is evidenced by works. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And so if you've really got that relationship with Jesus, like I'll tell you, man, when I got saved, I knew a couple of things instinctively. One I needed to read the Bible. Two I needed to pray. Three I needed to go to church.
Speaker 2:I knew that I don't know how I knew it. I needed to go to church.
Speaker 3:I knew that I don't know how I knew it, but I knew I absolutely knew that right. And so when folks come along and they get saved and they don't, they don't have these same convictions. It's one of the reasons why, when I lead somebody to jesus, I tell them okay, go to church, read your bible, pray and tell somebody about jesus. That's your four main obligations. I love that it's not complicated Privileges.
Speaker 1:It's really not, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:That's right. Privileges, that's the better way to say that, because obligation is low. I mean, it's there, obligation is there. I'm compelled to preach the gospel and to reach and compel men, so that's there too. But yeah, privilege is the better one. That's the higher, higher love. I do it because I want to.
Speaker 4:I do it because I love it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I tell people those are the four primary things. Man, it's not complicated at all, it's pretty simple. Didn't say it's easy, it's not complicated. Yeah, yeah, well, said it's not complicated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well said so if I'm starting to look into this stuff, you know not me, but you know I'm talking about someone who's straying a bit right. They're looking into the preterism, they're looking into self-deification, narcissism, these kinds of things. Uh, christ, consciousness, this just seeped into their feed, say. The algorithm did it. You know, let's blame it on the algorithm for a second. The fact that they won't come to church.
Speaker 2:Essentially, what that points to is that people won't accept me for having these fringe ideas. If I were to show up to church, not even talking about them, but just having them in my heart or on my mind, you know, looking at them, divulging in them, I feel like you know there's an ickiness that comes along with it, that I can't be in church now or that, like my, my, my perspectives won't align with the church elders or the pastor, and so why would they want me there? You know there's a victimhood that comes along with it too. Where you stay, you stay away, because you think that you're. You know you won't be accepted. That's what it is. You think you won't be accepted at church any longer if you start to entertain some of these ideas, and that's why I think they're so dangerous because they start to lead people astray, right? Yeah, you're saying they're not salvific, salvific matters. Now the, the christian, are christ consciousness. Yeah, because that's the deification of self.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're totally turning your back on christ in that way yeah, talking about things inside of orthodoxy, so things that we would consider are still compatible with the essentials. Yeah, the third point of that was essentials, not essentials in all things, charity meaning let's be gracious, yeah, be gracious with each other, right and work it out.
Speaker 3:And still come to church Right and there does need to be something that needs to be said. For, do you trust god? Yeah, yeah, that's the biggest issue if, if you believe that god has placed you somewhere and you know that he's, he's like, just because you got a johnny come lately, thought a year later god hasn't changed his mind. Yeah, like, do you trust him or not?
Speaker 3:like, so many people get distracted from mission because of dumb things and it's like do did you forget what he did? Amen, did you forget how he did this? Did you forget the math on when this happened, did you? And it's like, if, if you really trust God, you need to go back and remember those things and then judge your present circumstances in light of the moments when you know he was active and he was doing stuff.
Speaker 4:Right, yeah, that's why I said at the start of our talk that there's this connection with regards to faith and how it plays out in our going to church, because if you see yourself as part of a bigger whole, then the natural knee-jerk reaction is to go there Again, not going so as to get something, but with the mindset of he saved me. I am no longer my own, I've been bought with a price. Therefore, I'm going to be, as he said, salt and light. Salt has work to do to preserve. I'm part of a body which preserves.
Speaker 4:If the body isn't doing what it's supposed to do, then society will envelop into all sorts of ugly sores. Right, we need to preserve. Therefore, which is happening? Oh, absolutely. And then I'm light. Therefore I need to be, as Jesus says, not a light that's hidden under a basket, but on a city that could be seen, and therefore it implies me going out to be seen. And so if you have this sort of mindset again, faith is the connecting factor there then obviously you're going to go, because you're going to think and live as if. Here's a simple example, I believe, which is common sense, but I'll say it nonetheless that if I don't work, I won't eat and my kids will starve. Therefore, I go to work, despite how I feel or don't feel. I go to work. Likewise, if I believe, as I just said, that I'm salt and light and I have responsibilities and privileges before God and before my fellow brothers and sisters in faith, then I am going to go, despite how I feel and don't feel, because I'm not going for myself, I'm going for God's glory.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Amen.
Speaker 2:Amen yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, amen.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of stuff out there, you know that you know is concerning, you know that can lead people astray. But I think again that remembering the relationship that you've had with God right In the past, that you've had with Jesus in the past, you know, and relying on that, you know um another one I wanted to bring up and I'd be totally remiss if I didn't is this idea of the feminine and that not being represented in the Trinity.
Speaker 2:You know that's a lot of the arguments from a new age, or you know more so of maybe, someone who's come out of the new age.
Speaker 2:You know where, where's the feminine represented and that's what you see. People sometimes backsliding on um is seeking that, because in the new age the feminine is, just, is, is almost paramount to the rest of everything else, because it's been, you know, the, the idea of the patriarchy and the new age really go hand in hand in a lot of ways, where the feminine has kind of been, you know, quieted and silenced in a lot of ways. And so when you are trying to find a place for that, because you still have a reservation deep inside of you that the feminine should be somewhere right and you want to place that somewhere in the Trinity or in Christendom in some way, your understanding of it at least, it's a tough one, because I think a lot of people are seeking that in some way but don't quite know where to put it. When it comes to that, and if you want to speak a little bit about that, I think it's a good thing to get into, at least to acknowledge you know.
Speaker 3:Sure, I think that the folks who are reaching for that have felt like there's some need or desire to identify what's present on the planet with what's present in heaven and eternity. Yeah, Okay. Yeah, and the problem is that that is doing things exactly the wrong way. Yeah, definition does not start on the face of the planet. Definition starts from the one through whom all definition starts. Well, said so holiness is not defined as what I do on the face of the planet. It's defined from the character and nature of God.
Speaker 3:Goodness is not defined as the practicality of me walking an old lady across the street or paying for somebody's groceries or a mom breastfeeding her baby, which are all relatively on the face of the planet, what we would judge as good things or not, evil kind of a thing. But to take those things and look for representations of those things in heaven is to exactly invert the process you are supposed to define from heaven downward. And it's one of the conversations we were having about the intentional inversion of the satanic deception.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Jesus says on earth as it is in heaven. Yet the the hermeticism statement is as above, so below.
Speaker 2:And as within, so without Right Exactly.
Speaker 3:And so it sounds almost exactly the same, but it's direction is completely the wrong way right, yeah, yeah. Now when it comes to the feminine aspect, that is a nature of the created order it is not something that is eternal, a characteristic of the world. 100 yeah it is a yeah. It is like eve the, the, she. She did not exist as a person until she's taken out of adam as a real person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, right okay yeah, so in other words, adam isn't like looking at his ribbon going hey, eve before. There's not two consciousnesses inside of adam present at the same time. Right, right, that's not there, right? She does not exist as a. She exists as an idea in the mind of god, because he knows what he's going to do before he does it. You know that kind of a thing. But as far as an actual expression, etc. Etc. What, whatnot? Yeah, she does not exist until she's created yeah okay when she's created.
Speaker 3:She's not created as a reflection of god and she's created to help adam. Yeah, adam, yeah, here's a mission Adam to in the garden Genesis chapter 2. Genesis chapter 2 is the zoomed in version of what happened on the sixth day in Genesis, chapter 1. So what happens? God creates Adam, god puts him in a garden. God says till the garden. God says hmm, not good for Adam to be alone. What is God's judgment of Adam's status before he creates Eve Alone?
Speaker 3:Yeah okay, by himself, nobody else, right? Right, I am going to make him a helper suitable for him. Yep, then he walks all the animals in front of him. Adam's like, hmm, names them all and and there's almost this, this, uh, the. The naming of the animals corresponds to the aloneness of Adam, right? So the idea is Adam is aware there is nobody suitable for him, there is nothing suitable for him, and then suddenly God says let me put you to sleep, buddy, I got a great thing. Yeah, takes the rib out, makes the woman and Adam's mind is blown.
Speaker 4:He speaks poetry for the first time.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, what is this Flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone I'm like? Well, you know, think of the, the old cartoons, uh, for Looney Tunes, when they go.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's the idea of what's happening in that
Speaker 2:moment. Exactly why?
Speaker 3:did god create eve not to reflect his nature differently, not to do. He created eve to help adam? That's right, okay. Bigger picture, yeah. That, then, is revealed in ephesians to reveal to us the role between Jesus and his church.
Speaker 3:Yep. Yes, the point of Adam and Eve is not to tell us something of the internal relationship of the Trinity, but to tell us part of God's redeemed created order and what he plans going forward in the relationship between the one person of the Trinity, the Son, and his church, whom he saves and redeems. Right as his bride, yep Right. And so the point isn't even sexuality.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's not it. The point is, I am here to help you do what you're supposed to do, jesus. You save the earth. Your church comes, like eve does to adam, and helps you save the earth, right? So the entire thing is rooted in the created order of redemption and these things in the plan of god, and not the eternal nature of god himself. Yeah, yes, well said. And so to take these themes and try to extrapolate them back into or there's a word for it to reverse engineer them, yes, into the nature of god, is what we call a categorical confusion.
Speaker 1:Sure, it's a false logic yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, it's the. What's commonly said in our language is the apples and oranges. You're comparing apples and oranges, right? Yep, god is in a category unto himself, amen. Gospel john, chapter one, verse three everything that has been said to have had a beginning came into being by him. Right, he's uncreated 100. Yeah, so he is in a category unto his own right, and there are certain things in the created category that do not cross over into the uncreated category, and there are like, for instance, creation.
Speaker 3:God will never be created right so our, our, uh, being createdness, our having a beginning, will never apply to him. In gender 100, gender is part of the created, exactly yeah, and there are certain things of the uncreated category that will never cross into the created category, like, for instance, inexhaustibility, never endingness. We will always have had a beginning.
Speaker 3:He's never had a beginning. So we call these incommunicable attributes, and communicable attributes theologically, things that can be communicated from God to us and things that cannot be communicated from God to us. And so we are almost looking to try to take things that are of the created order and impose them into the non-created. That don't match even even the idea of father and son. Sure, okay, yep, those are role definitions, not sexuality.
Speaker 2:It's a term of convenience to refer to him as he those kinds of things. Is that kind of?
Speaker 3:I wouldn't, carly, because it's not offhanded. Yeah, okay, convenience kind of makes it like this is the easiest thing to do, sure it is intentional, okay 100, but it's meant to convey role, sure, yes it's meant to convey order. It's meant to can like these kinds of things. It's not meant to convey like god. The father does not have a penis, right? When we call him father, yeah right, I mean he had a penis.
Speaker 4:He did not copulate with mary yeah as some people say right, right as as as the mormons would say yeah, yeah, totally, yeah father, god came down and had physical relations with mary.
Speaker 3:Right? That's not what those things mean. Right, those are anthropomorphisms that are seeking to tell us something about god that he chose to reveal to us. Yeah, yeah, like think about it, the jews. To hear that God was Father was foreign to them. So you've got this entire revelation of God revealing himself, and then, suddenly, this idea of the fatherhood of God comes and the revelation of Christ, and it's meant to communicate A I belong to his family, I'm part of his household, and B he's in charge. Father's the beginning. Father's the beginning. Father's the head. He was referred to as.
Speaker 3:Abba, though, prior to that or not, there are a couple of places that talk about, about him being father in the old Testament, but but the idea of calling him father by the standard Jew?
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's blasphemy. Correct Yep.
Speaker 2:Okay, interesting.
Speaker 4:Which is why, when you get these things sorry buddy, go ahead.
Speaker 2:That's okay, go for it.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Which is why, when you get these things, man, it kind of creates in you this genuine desire for worship. Right Like as I hear you guys talk and extrapolate scripture. I'm thinking of David in the Psalms. He says what is man, that you're mindful of him? It's because you're realizing all these truths that are so far beyond who you are and that is made known to you in such an intimate way that your whole life again going back to the circle, back to church, this is just like a natural expression. This is just like a natural expression. God has made me a son. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 4:Before, they couldn't even call him father because it seemed blasphemous. Yet Jesus comes down, reveals that he is my father and I get to use these words and not be blasphemous, and his spirit's put in me so as to say this in a genuine place. And how could that not produce in somebody worship? If you are a Christian, it will, and then you will go to church because of these things, because they're innate. You're not trying to drum up these emotions Again as I'm hearing you talk. I literally I'm not a Pentecostal like you guys, but I almost did a backflip.
Speaker 3:I'm super excited. Right now we're praying for you.
Speaker 4:I rebuke that.
Speaker 3:Circle back real quick to the feminine thing. What people don't realize is, um, in the new testament in particular. So there's neither jew nor greek, nor male nor female, nor freed nor slave, nor anything. Okay, so there's actually a removal of those things and I I think that there is a establishing of the role in order to remove the role, so that you understand what it is when you're given the removal of the role yes, so these things are there as well.
Speaker 3:Like I am, I am a sinner who's now made a saint, so wrestle with the sin, nature and those kinds of things, but both things are true of me at the same time. But but I look forward to the day where I have a resurrected body, like his body, and I walk in the freedom of sonship. So that, and, and and what is that contrasted to the freedom of, uh, or the, the contrast of the bondage of sonship to the demonic and to the devil? So so these things are there, and so there's this removal, actually, of the societal structures slave, free, female, male, rich, poor this leveling of all things because we're all going to be one in Christ. And then, secondarily, jesus says in the resurrection, they are neither married nor given in marriage, and so that role of male, female in mission in the earth and all of this other stuff is then eclipsed by my relationship with Christ and so my marriage to my wife.
Speaker 3:I'll still remember that we were married, I'll still have the experiences of when we were married, etc. But my marriage will be replaced by my relationship with Jesus. A greater reality, yes, and so this male-female thing is like eclipsed by the greater idea of unity with God. Yes, yes, right, in which there is no male or female.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, it speaks to sort of the male and female, the gender question, as sort of like an illustration of what happens when a spiritual thing becomes a physical thing. It enters into duality right, and with Adam and Eve, you know, in a lot of ways that is an illustration of duality right there, the male and female, the very first male and female right. But she came as his helper, you put it right, and I think too that there is a confusion with the holy spirit and that being feminine too.
Speaker 3:So let's talk about that, yeah yeah, so listening to one podcaster and they were like the holy spirit's never referred to in the masculine, which isn't true. He is actually, um, it's a spirit of god. So, yeah, and he's actually called the comforter, um, if I remember the the, the conversation we're having before, where, where that is masculine, right, but he's also referred to in in language male and female, feminine, masculine and and neuter neutral. Uh, yeah, yeah, they're. They are less about sex and more about language construct, right, okay, sure, so you, you wouldn't name a female with a male name, like that would be abnormal. But you know, in in spanish, does this the?
Speaker 3:yeah, right the door is, you know I. I don't know spanish, but the entire language itself is for the sake of argument, the door is oriented right, yeah, or is male, well, it doesn't mean it has a penis right, right, and in greek, the the same thing the role for the role, for those masculine, feminine and neuter is so that you can connect it to different thoughts when you write and when you speak.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so the neutered nouns refer to those things that are neutral in the sentence structure, those modifiers that are in this tense or that case and and so all that, all that stuff is, uh, is not sexual yeah, okay, yeah um, that's, that's the first thing. The second thing is that you know, thinking conceptually, the those who want to make the holy spirit um feminine. Dude, he's the one who impregnates mary.
Speaker 2:Right, that's not a feminine role if you're gonna argue for a gender, that's right, although nowadays in that, yeah, he was not the womb he was the other part right correct, he was he was the impregnator, not the impregnated yeah okay, so, so the those things are their, their reaches further.
Speaker 3:You know, for those who are paying attention, this, this, the, the, the idea that the holy spirit is the divine feminine, is the exact lie that a lot of the occultic world right now is, yes, to express, to get its fingers into the church yeah, there you go, absolutely that is the exact lie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that and and for you and I we've had the conversations. There are a couple of names out there, big names of people who are communing with these things, who exactly are saying that the next revelation of god is the divine feminine and attaching it to old e gods by name. This de-identified itself as that, and so this exact lie is what's being shopped by the demonic realm to infiltrate the church, and people need to realize and this is one of the reasons why being a part of a local church is so important God has ordained, the structures of apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers and evangelists.
Speaker 3:That structure means these are those who lead and are given that. The the the structures of apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers and evangelists. Like that structure means these are those who lead and are given that, and one of those is teacher yeah, yeah like that, that that thing like god.
Speaker 3:Like first john says you don't need a teacher because you have the anointing, and yet the other, the ephesians, says that there is a thing called a teacher, and first corinthians 12, the latter part, says that teachers the third level of authority in the local church yeah and so what do they do? They teach well what does?
Speaker 3:that do? It keeps you doctrinally rooted, so that you're not bewitched by these doctrines of demons? Yeah, so that you're not taken and bamboozled by these spirits that are seeking to give you something that your own person wants to feel some kind of way about, so you can be led astray. Why? Because of what Thessalonians says. Because you refuse to receive a love of the truth, you're loving the wrong things, and so these demons come and they offer this new thing to you. And because you refuse to love that which is true, you're led astray to love the thing that's not true. Yeah, and before you know it, you open up your eyes and you're so far off the reservation yes yeah, and how do you get back like you'll like big?
Speaker 3:door for real, like a person swept out to sea by a tide, sure a rip current, who now is miles away from the shore and lit in by terror because they can't make their way back to the beach.
Speaker 4:Yeah, well said.
Speaker 3:Somebody needs to hear that today, being the source of wisdom and that, being feminine, has traction in early gnosticism right it does and it's it's of the millennia it's because the bible speaks in that way. The book of proverbs, yes, personifies wisdom as a female, feminine right. Okay, yeah, and but that's one of those anthropomorphism things, yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3:So like, for instance, when, when the scripture says, god measured out the, the universe, or the, the created order, the heavens and the earth by the span of his hands. It's from the pinky to the tip of the thumb, or something like that. Does that mean that God has a literal hand that's now billions and trillions of miles long? No, that's not what it means.
Speaker 1:Yeah miles long.
Speaker 3:No, that's not what it means. It is meant to to um convey to you how big god is and how small the creation is and insignificant compared to him man is man is just dust.
Speaker 3:Am I literally dust right now? No, no, no, it's meant to convey I am nothing here today, gone tomorrow, blown away like a vapor in the wind. You know, these, these are poetic ways of saying things that are meant to convey things that that are, uh, that on the surface are not exactly what they say. Yeah, and all of that comes from hebrew parallelism and poetry that we already know is metaphorical, right, yep, yep, like the way it's written in the passages. You know it's a metaphor, true, right, because of its structures.
Speaker 3:Way, like you, if you read the new american standard, it, it parses out, breaks out what's what's poetry from what's not, with a different, um, sequencing, so that you can tell that's poetry from what's not, with a different sequencing, so that you can tell that's poetry that's not, that's poetry that's not, that's poetry that's not. And so all of those, we know that that's parallelism, we know that that's Hebrew poetry. Yeah, very cool, well said, yeah, so you know it's the. You know the divine feminine, unfortunately, is an essential matter. Yeah, absolutely, the, you know the divine feminine, unfortunately, is an essential matter. Yeah, that absolutely talking about the nature of god, so that that is something that is absolutely essential. Um, and it happens to be one of the lies that the demonic is is presenting and and if we've been right in our conversation, it may be the lie.
Speaker 3:Yeah it's a big lie yeah, I've got two on my radar that are huge, that that may be the lie, and one of them is the stuff that's happening with the alien deception, and the other one, um, which I believed before.
Speaker 3:Uh, uh, was it's islam sure yeah and so the, those two things, the, the present trajectory of, of islam and the present stuff coming out of the, the, the alien world, you know, which is all smoke and mirrors, um, and those two lies have the potential to be like the lies. Sure, yeah, so, um, but there are other things that are non-essential, yeah, you know, and, and it's good to identify. And just because your pastor believes something different than you do about a non-essential matter doesn't mean you can't trust him and you can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you can't show up to church, seriously, yeah, and you know to wrap, wrap back around, I think.
Speaker 3:yeah, you know, discern primary issues versus secondary issues. We cannot divide over primary, but we allow variance over secondary and if somebody else picks to divide over a secondary matter, it's dangerous. Now made that secondary matter a matter of primary importance, which is exactly why you're going to be deceived. Yeah, yeah, well said I believe that that thing is so important that you must believe that or you're not going to find God, or you don't believe in God, or you know something along those lines. Okay, and we've all got our own pet things.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we've all got our own pet things. Or, more specific, you believe that your interpretation of a non-essential matter is supposed to be greater than the unity of the brethren. It's funny One of the things you talked about at the beginning was the people in other countries who are facing severe persecution are uniting in despite of persecution, and I oftentimes think like this I think in America, while I think it is a blessing that we have, like, the opportunities to gather without you know sort of persecution and that sort of thing, I think too, we've kind of gorged ourselves on grace to the point that we we lose, like what I mean to say is, in china or nigeria, for example, they don't have the privilege to disagree on non-essential issues. Your brother, it's true, if I don't, if I don't help you, you die. If you don't help the privilege to disagree on non-essential issues. You're a brother, it's true, if I don't help you, you die. If you don't help me, you die Right. And therefore there's just this love for the brotherhood that, despite, they don't lose friendships and love over non-essential issues. They exist, right, right, and I think that's a grace of God. To be fair, that's another story for another time but they don't lose relationships over that.
Speaker 4:Here, though, again, we've kind of gorged ourselves on the various braces we experience, and so, therefore, as a result, rather than understanding the need for non-essential issues so as to prove love because that's what the Bible says Jesus says don't be like the sinners who only love those who are like them, who think like them. You be different. Love, love, love, right. Instead of using these opportunities to display the true nature of the Christian, that is to say, love, we've done the opposite.
Speaker 4:We've become like Jesus in another parable, where he says not a parable, but a scene there where the disciples see some other people doing some work and they say, jesus, they're not doing it like we should or we would. And he says this is something we all need to learn, right, and this is kind of germane to our talk here. He says if they're not against me, they're for me and therefore for us. So don't worry about the non-essentials, that's okay. Unite on the things that matter, the things that glorify Jesus, and that's okay, and that's part of showing again what it means to be a loving believer. So it's necessary.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that. If you're listening and you have entertained some of these non-essential topics and feel as though you're not welcome at church anymore, think again. Yeah, come back through. We want you, you know yeah, 100.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, do major on the majors, don't major on the minors. Yeah, you know that. That that's, that's just, that's not worth it. Yeah, you know, we, we've all. There are things that that that the rest of of the pastoral team I'm on hold to and that that others don't, and they're like, and there's variance even amongst us. Yeah, and that's actually part. That's good actually, yes it is yes.
Speaker 2:The variance is a good thing.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So you know, don't, but don't exalt the variances to things that are not necessary, Right?
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:And make sure, but those that are essential. You got to believe the right thing on those.
Speaker 4:Like you, must Hold out with a tight grip.
Speaker 3:Have to be unified on the essentials, but we, we are, we are. We give freedom in the non-essentials and we need to be gracious in all things which is the Augustinian creed and that's the.
Speaker 3:It's the right way to handle brothers and sisters in the church and that's the reason why I teach it in our, in our doctrines class, for the LVS is understand it, especially when it comes to doctrine, because those are the matters, the teachings, the structural teachings of the thing. I think I want to read a passage and then we can go ahead and close here.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, we're there.
Speaker 3:Therefore, brethren, this is Hebrews 10, verse 19. Since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, this is talking about fellowship with God in the holy of holies by his blood, verse 20,. By a new and living way, which he inaugurated for us through the veil that is his flesh, meaning he died. How do we get there? We die, and since we have a great priest over the house of god, let us draw near with a sincere heart, in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he promises faithful. Let us consider to stimulate one another to love and good deeds. Yes, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another even the more as you see the day drawing near come on, and so you see all the pictures.
Speaker 3:That's there. He says the therefore is because of this. Let us be together, hold fast our confession of hope, this and these promises to those who refuse to forsake these something of ourselves. We hold fast the confession of our hope. That's together, without wavering. That's stability, finding his faithfulness. You promise is faithful. Let us consider meaning we are able to, to think heavenly things about what stimulating one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own, assembling together but encouraging one another even as you draw, as the day draws near. And so all of these things that come from our fellowship with him. Fellowship with him produces fellowship with his church, full stop.
Speaker 3:First, john, one, one through four, what we, what we know, we've make known unto you and your fellowship is with us, and our fellowship is with him. It's really interesting that he doesn't say we make known unto you and now your fellowship is with him. It's really interesting that he doesn't say we make known unto you and now your fellowship is with him. Nope, his statement is clear we have fellowship with him and you have fellowship with us. And because you have fellowship with us, you have fellowship with him. That's right. Yeah, well, that's what he says, don't?
Speaker 2:know what to tell you, okay.
Speaker 3:But the experience of that community and that communion happens with the brethren and that expression happens in a local body.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:It happens in a group of covenanted believers who've said we're going to do this together, and it centers around mission. That's where it happens. The idea of a group of local believers just getting together to just get together is secondary. The point is mission. Oil comes from the tree and the tree is chosen according to purpose. You read Zechariah. I picked these two, one to govern the culture of my house and one to govern the building of my house. It's Joshua and Zerubbabel. Those are the two sons of fresh oil, the olive trees. That happens according to mission. You as a lampstand. The church cannot have oil unless you are properly aligned to that olive tree, which means an alignment with the mission so the whole thing happens, happens in that zone, and you know all the inferences are there.
Speaker 3:If you want to be by yourself, that means you don't want god's mission amen you want to gather in, in, in in his name is just two or two, or three. Gather in his name. Listen, you are. You are more akin to witches and pagans practicing witchcraft who are hoping that they have the name of jesus like a cross on their neck. That's a trinket that they're going to rub before they have a job interview, so that they hope to get the job interview, that's right more like a coven than a congregation.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent.
Speaker 3:That is not covenant. Covenant is with the person whom the name represents, the substance that the name represents, and if you do not have connection to the substance of the person.
Speaker 3:You do not have connection to the name, it's just a trinket. And that you stand in front of God on the last day and use his name as a trinket. He's going to go. What did they say? Lord, lord, and he goes. Never knew you, right, but I wore a cross. Never knew you, but I said your name all the time, never knew you. Yeah, that's terrifying, yeah.
Speaker 1:In the Old Testament. He says Covenanted expression.
Speaker 3:local expression is what God has picked. Expression, local expression, is what God has picked why? Because he's the greatest Son of Fresh Oil. Jesus is the branch who is the greatest olive tree. Jesus is the one who walks amongst the lampstands in the book of Revelation, who gives His oil to His people. And you cannot be a part of Christ without being a part of his body. Sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well said, you're crafted back in Christian. Yeah, well said, time is nigh. Yeah, yeah, thank you guys.
Speaker 3:Closing thoughts. T you good? You had a little something, or are you good?
Speaker 4:No, no, you said it. Well, man, amen, you said it well, man, amen, amen to that.
Speaker 2:Thank you, my brothers, amen. Another fantastic discussion. I'm glad we could defend the honor of the Holy Spirit, because boy is he present during these convos, man, and I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 2:Thank you again to all the listeners and viewers. You guys really make this what it's worth and you know, I just I want to say yeah, a big thanks to you guys. And I just want to say yeah, a big thanks to you guys, and then send this to one or two other people today that you think would benefit from it. Everyone who's listening right now send it out, get the word out, because we want to be able to spread this and help some people out, encourage folks, especially with an episode like this, where it could really mean a lot between showing up and not showing up. It means everything you know when it comes to your relationship with the Lord. You know it could mean life or death for you.
Speaker 3:Honestly, it really can.
Speaker 2:It really can. So bless you, brothers. Thank you, man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2:Glory to God and blood and oil out Later, amen. Blood and oil out Later, amen.
Speaker 1:Blood and Oil podcast is filmed and recorded by Pastor Jesse and Zane in California with Terrence, on video call from the East Coast. We thank our supporters and please be reminded to use your own discernment, as the views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests may not reflect those of other people, institutions or organizations. A variety of guests will join us as we discuss modern events through a biblical lens, so buckle up and enjoy the ride. Thanks to all of our supporters and praise God for the opportunity to serve him in this way. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and pray for blessings upon your day.
