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Blood & Oil Podcast
Feeling uninspired in your faith? Discover the dynamic, life-changing power of the gospel with Blood & Oil, the Christian podcast that's redefining what it means to follow Jesus in the modern world.
Dive deep into biblical truths with cutting-edge insights. Be encouraged by authentic stories of God's transformative grace. Gain practical wisdom to deepen your relationship with Christ. Find the courage to live out your faith with bold authenticity.
Blood & Oil Podcast is for Christians who are hungry for more. More depth. More power. More of an unapologetic, uncompromising faith that transforms lives. If you're ready to go beyond surface-level discussions and experience the full force of the gospel, press play and let this podcast be your guide.
Hosts: Pastor Jesse LaForce, Zane Wheeler, and Terrence Theodore
Thank you to our supporters, and please be reminded to use your own discernment as the views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests may not reflect those of any other people, institutions, or organizations
Praise God for the opportunity to serve Him in this way. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and pray for blessings upon your day.
Intro music: "Floating Garden" by Aventure, "Espanã" by Dreamt
Blood & Oil Podcast
Christus Victor | The Gospel and Spiritual Warfare
What does it mean to live in spiritual victory? Christ won a decisive battle in His death and resurrection, yet many Christians still approach spiritual warfare as if they're fighting for victory rather than from victory.
In this illuminating episode, we unpack the profound implications of Christ's triumph over the demonic realm. The cross wasn't just a historical event—it fundamentally altered the spiritual landscape by disarming the enemy and breaking Satan's legal claim over humanity. Through Christ's blood, believers have been transferred from the domain of darkness into God's kingdom, yet many continue living as though they're still under enemy occupation.
Our conversation reveals why understanding your position in Christ transforms everything about spiritual warfare. Before salvation, we were "children of wrath" under Satan's jurisdiction. Now, seated with Christ in heavenly places, believers possess His authority—not because they've earned it, but because relationship with Christ grants access to it. This distinction between working for victory versus working from victory lies at the heart of living victoriously.
We explore practical questions: Why do many Christians remain vulnerable to spiritual attacks? How does the armor of God actually function? What's the difference between God's permissive and perfect will? And crucially, how does understanding both the cross (which pays for sin) and the resurrection (which breaks death's power) complete our understanding of spiritual triumph?
Whether you're battling spiritual opposition, seeking deeper understanding of your authority in Christ, or simply wanting to live more victoriously, this episode will equip you with biblical insights that elevate your spiritual warfare from striving to standing firm in what Christ has already accomplished.
Blood & Oil Podcast is filmed and recorded by Pastor Jesse LaForce and Zane Wheeler in California, with Terrence Theodore on video call from the East Coast. A variety of guests will join us as we discuss modern events through a biblical lens, so buckle up and enjoy the ride. Thanks to all of our supporters, and Praise God for the opportunity to serve Him in this way. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and pray for blessings upon your day.
In a time when faith can feel flat, distracted and disengaged, the Blood and Oil podcast cuts through the noise to reveal the raw, unfiltered work of the Holy Spirit. Welcome to the Blood and Oil podcast.
Speaker 2:All right, welcome to Blood and Oil. We are back. I've got myself, zane, pastor Jesse and Terrence with us today. What's up? Really excited to be here, really excited to be here.
Speaker 2:Guys, thank you so much for listening, in, subscribing, following us. We're so happy to be putting out these episodes for you and, just again, we're looking for any questions you guys want to drop as well. We're getting some great comments, great feedback, people getting some relief, some encouragement from the show, Um, but again, anything that's on your heart. You know this is a great platform for myself. I'll speak for myself too. It's great to be able to bounce some questions off y'all. So if anyone listening please think about you know, um, just just search your heart, see what's in there and, you know, fire those questions at us. We're happy to help, or we're happy to answer them here and to help you guys in that way.
Speaker 2:But today we're going to be talking about the state of victory that we're able to live in as Christians. You know, christ won a big victory on the cross and that translates in a lot of ways, this victory. But I think living a lifestyle of you know that we are victorious over the enemy is a confident way of living. But I think that we slip into, you know, stresses, fears, worries, concerns regularly that kind of take us out of that space of victory, weaken us a bit in the spirit. And today we want to talk about just how potent and how powerful that victory on the cross was and the implications with regards to spiritual warfare in our modern times and in our Christian walk, in our everyday life. So let's talk a bit about it, pass it over to Jesse.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So it struck me when I went to Bible school 150 years ago I did the systematic theology is, you know, required course for Bible school and there's a systematic Theo 1 and 2 and 3 and so different classes based and they build on each other, classes based and they build on each other. And I remember the systematic Theo one. You know it's a 1200 page book by a guy named Millard Erickson and this is like a tome, so you know it's thick and you got to read the whole thing in one term and then you got to do a term paper on a theological topic and so all this stuff. But it struck me that in in 1200 pages guess how many pay each chapter was about 20 pages. Guess how many chapters were on the holy spirit zero two, two, 40 pages.
Speaker 3:Wow, out of 1200 yeah, about the most active member of the trinity present right in the christian life. Exactly, yeah, we are people of the spirit. According to paul, everything happens by the spirit of god, yep and um. And we've got all this doctrine on creation, all this doctrine on on the father and on the Son and we should, and then this pitiful amount on the Spirit of God. Sure, same scenario or same type of dynamic where I got this huge book that we use for two of our pastoral ministry courses at LBS and I have to teach two seminars on spiritual warfare and I'm using the book for articles. There's there's a number of articles in it. It's called the Pentecostal pastor. Guess how many are on spiritual warfare, none.
Speaker 4:Wow, wow In a Pentecostal book.
Speaker 3:Right, exactly Like I was shocked. I was like, wait a second, aren't we supposed to be those who are known to be the supernatural? Like we're the guys.
Speaker 2:Where's that?
Speaker 3:book from.
Speaker 2:Where is it from, when was it written, or when was it?
Speaker 3:compiled Pentecostal pastor. It's been around for a while, but it's a key for the Assemblies of God. Yeah, okay, okay in particular.
Speaker 2:So the only reason I ask is because would spiritual warfare be a be known as something else? You know when that was written. No, if there's no nomenclature, yeah, okay, no, it's always.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's always been that especially the, the 60s and the 70s, with the charismatic movement, you got this, this explosion of spiritual warfare, teaching and a lot of it's gobbledygook. Some of it is very grounded, but a lot of it is not grounded, sure, and even today, like you go into the deliverance realm and there's a lot of gobbledygook I think the demonic seeks to confuse people and um draw them into what what they think is proper deliverance methodology yeah which is actually just the spirit being those spirits being legalistic and getting you duped into thinking you need this or you need that, like, for instance, I gotta know its name.
Speaker 3:no, you don't right. Nope, I think we talked about this before. You got one instance of that in the scripture and when you look at the text in context, it's a one-off number one, number two there's something more happening than needing to know a name.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And all this deliverance ministry gobbledygook that says knowing the name gives you legal right. Now, there is ancient ideas that knowing the name gives you access to the substance of the one who knows the name, which is true, and that's why the name of Jesus is so important. Knowing the name does give you access to the substance of the person who owns the name, but the more important part is the relationship to the person who has the name. Does give you access to the substance of the person who owns the name? Yeah, but the more important part is the relationship to the person who has the name.
Speaker 2:But even something like Legion was a military classification Right.
Speaker 3:It wasn't a formal name, right Right, it was an identifier tag that told you something about the nature of the corporate spirit, got it? That was present, not a formal name.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like, like my name's bob, like that's right and not required, right right, but when you have these catholic expressions of exorcism, you know obviously a form of spiritual warfare. What's the point of the name? What's the point of all the extra stuff, would you say I don't know if they require knowing the name or not.
Speaker 3:yeah, um, a lot of the pentecostal charismatic or evangelical stuff that's out there says like there there's a, a guy named um, uh, bob forgot his name, uh wrote a book. Um, bob larson, okay, and he does all kinds of exorcisms and I think that in some zones he is dealing with real spirits. But I also think that a lot of them are kind of taking him for a ride. Sure, because this idea that you got to spend five hours with somebody and you got to have two big guys on the right and on their left and then you got to figure out how many generations it goes back and then you got to interview the spirit and right figure out like all that stuff, like, do those things exist?
Speaker 3:yes, there's a way that spirits get influenced. Or is there such thing as a generational spirit? If you mean in the sense that there are familiar spirits, which the bible calls out familiar spirits that the category sure, that there are familiar spirits, that that organize themselves around a family and, based on sin patterns and a culture that's within that family, get access to people? Yes, right, but if you mean that, because my dad committed rape, I now, because I'm part of his seed, have a spirit of rape inside of me, no, I don't believe that right, it's like generational iniquity.
Speaker 3:Right yeah, consequences yeah right, right, yeah, right and so so like, for instance, an alcoholic family will produce alcoholics? Sure, yeah, because that's the culture. And so a a family that's involved in, uh, demonic stuff or that has a lot of demonic spirits around it, those children are going to be more prone to that. Absolutely 100. But if you mean that there is some sort of legal right within the bloodline that makes it happen, I'm not so sure about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't see that in the scripture, and I want to be careful that there are a lot of things that scripture doesn't address. Like, scripture doesn't talk about televisions, scripture doesn't talk about driving a car, but scripture gives you values that address everything. Yeah, but scripture gives you values that address everything. Yeah, and so in a zone like this, there there are, there are one-offs and there are things that you know you can have encounters that will turn your world upside down, um, so I want to be careful, you know, and be sensitive to that. Um, I don't just want to.
Speaker 3:You know poo-poo stuff, yeah, but when you've got instances like we know, we're going to do an interview next month with a gentleman who one of the things that really really secured my attention concerning him while I was researching him was the demonic the, the present pop culture deliverance world says that, um, that that you need to know the name of the spirit and that it's still got, it's got all this access and all this other kind of stuff, and and he said, no, the power and the blood of jesus is greater than any of that right, and if you belong to jesus, there are no rights the demonic realm has over you if your covenant is strong, even more than covenant, you can open doors, but legal right yeah sure there's no legal right.
Speaker 3:Okay, you're, you're in. You know one of the con the topics today we're going to talk about what happens in the cross. The legality of the claim of the demonic on the human is done in the cross, sure sure okay, the, the what, what's the nature of the claim of the demonic?
Speaker 3:what's interesting is paul's use of the term elementary principles. Is what we see in english, um, or first things, or these kinds of the? The greek is toikia and it means first structures, and it it refers to demonic powers and fallen angelic structures that govern humans, and the Galatians were submitting themselves back to that by going back into a religious structure that Jesus died to set them free from Sure, that jesus died to set them free from sure. And it's almost like, you see, this attempt of the demonic to try to lull them back into this sense of religiosity. Right, this give to get pay to play um trade. Yeah, right, 100 quid pro quo is a good pro quo. Don't ask me to do that three times is exactly right. Right and um, so in in the cross or so. So what happens why? Why does the demonic have legal right to us before the cross? Because the just punishment of the law for a sinner is death. Right, and the devil Hebrews chapter 2, has the power of sin and death. He is the source of all of it. When he gets Adam to sin, adam takes on the nature of Satan, yeah, which is why we are children of the devil, children of rebellion, children of wrath, even by nature.
Speaker 3:Ephesians, chapter 2, prior to being born again Right, in which we everyone wants to say everyone's a child of God. No, you're not. Genesis, chapter 5 is really clear Adam was made in God's image. Adam had children in Adam's image. Wow, yeah, christ comes as the image of God and redeems the image of God and man. And we are now in the image of God, as we are redeemed in Christ. John 1. Go ahead.
Speaker 4:John 1, you're quoting John 1. To those who believe he gave the right to be called the children of god.
Speaker 3:100, which means that, prior to belief, you're not a child of god, correct? You are a child of the devil. Wow, okay, why? Because he's got rights over you. The, the nature of his corruption, in which he got into Adam, now becomes that which all who come from Adam have, which is why Jesus has to be born of a virgin Right, because otherwise he partakes in the same nature of Adam Right, but he's got to be born of a woman who's human in order to redeem humans, right. So this glorious thing that God sets up. So what happens? The devil has legal access because he's the one with the power of sin and death. And so, though the law of God is good. That reflects the character of God, its effect on me is not good because I'm not good. Right, the law is fine for someone who's righteous. The law condemns anyone who is not righteous.
Speaker 3:wow yeah but the law is a reflection of the character of god. Okay, yeah, and so so these people sin against god, adam sins against god. Death creeps into the nature of adam, now. Now, the devil is essentially the slave master over which all these people are bound underneath this system of slavery. Sure, because of the character of god okay which is the glory of the gospel.
Speaker 3:God sends his own son into that system and because he's not a sinner, those slavers have no authority over him. Wow, they've got authority over me, but they don't have authority over the son, who fulfills the requirements of the law perfectly Romans, chapter eight and then dies an illegal death. He should not have died.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Devil jumped the gun and killed him. 1 Corinthians 2,. If they'd known what they were doing, they would have never done it. Right Jumps the gun, kills the son. It's an illegal death, and now Jesus breaks the power of sin and death.
Speaker 2:He neutralizes the curse over mankind yeah from, from the, from the garden.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because of the illegal death that he suffered yes, so the the way that I put it is the cross disarms the demonic colossians chapter two and it disenfranchises the devil. Right, okay, because the franchise is this this um, this uh series of uh of rights of buildings and this kind of um corporate expression yeah over a thing, right, yeah right, and so death has a chokehold on humanity.
Speaker 3:Well, who has the power of death? Hebrews, chapter two yeah, the devil has the power of death, right, right, so the devil's got a chokehold on humanity, yeah, so if jesus breaks that claim, then any who come to jesus are now removed from that claim.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that's the key you have to accept the salvation that he's offering. That's that Relationship, yeah, and I think that this is a good point too, to like. I want to go back to that and just really dissect that. But, you know, for folks that are listening in, who aren't saved, you know, those who are seeking spirituality in alternative realms, let's say yeah.
Speaker 2:There is a spiritual war happening, whether you want to admit it or not, and there are two sides in this war and I didn't realize that when I was in the new age at all. I thought it was all.
Speaker 3:No middle ground.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought it was like I'm of the light. No, I'm dabbling in the darkness, now I'm of the light. I can go back and forth, depending on the day of the week. You know, I can dabble in both sides. No, no, I was working for the wrong side the whole time because I wasn't in Christ Jesus, and when I realized that there were only two camps, I realized what a chokehold the enemy had on me, you know, and that I was playing for the wrong one. So to give my life to Christ meant that I was then grafted in as an error to that kingdom, thus neutralizing the curse of sin and death over my being right, over my spirit, basically right, and stepping into the kingdom meant that I was then now under the covering of what the father offers yes, in the sun, and the and the son.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then access to the Holy spirit too.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and he's the gift. I think that's the, that's the, the. So the evangelical church is really really good at getting to the cross and really really bad at getting to the resurrection, right, and they're really really bad at articulating, articulating. What is the difference between the justification by the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and the justification by the Holy Spirit in the New Testament? Because they're both justification by faith. Paul's number one example of New Testament justification is the Old Testament, abraham, that the covenant of faith starts, uh, with inside of humans, with abraham, okay, but what's the difference? What, what, what happens? And in jesus, when he resurrects from the dead, his righteousness is now proven, tested and resurrected Right, okay, they're given, credited the righteousness of God in the Old Testament, but it's a mystery why, how?
Speaker 3:Yes, right, romans chapter 3 says that there is this public display of the sun that settles a controversy. That's happening in heaven. Okay, yeah, where god has demonstrated both as just and the justifier as righteous and the one who makes righteous right. Why does god need to demonstrate himself as righteous and just in the heavenly realms? What's that about sin? Well, it says it in the passage because he had passed over former sins. Yeah, and so the demonic is like why don't you judge david god?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, yeah, think about the accusations in job yeah when the devil sends a, he comes and visits eliphaz I think it's eliphaz the first of of the three friends, right? Eliphaz tells you like the entire thing of job is the play out of of the, the proving of god's position with Job against the demonic. How do all of his friends come? Job's friends come and accuse him? It's based on a demonic vision, dream that Eliphaz has in Job, chapter four, where a spirit comes and it's demonic and you can tell it's the devil, because he says of God. God even charges his own angels with error. Why would he not charge men? And there's almost this. He accused us. Why wouldn't he accuse you?
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, yeah. And this throne room interaction where the devil sets himself up as accuser. The term, the name Satan, is not a formal name until the New Testament. In the Old Testament, it's a position. The Hasatan is the accuser, the one who, in a courtroom setting, would be the one to make accusations against the guilty party. Right, which is Zechariah, chapter 3 joshua in dirty clothes. Satan is standing at his, at his side, getting ready to accuse him. Yes, joshua's in dirty clothes. He shouldn't be there. Yes, joshua came dressed in the wrong stuff, he shouldn't be there. And yet god sovereignly forgives him and shuts down the demonic, which is a glorious moment of justification, right, okay, bigger picture what happens in the cross?
Speaker 3:my sin debt is forgiven yeah I owe god, right, my life from. From david says I was conceived in iniquity and in sin. Did my mother give birth to me from the womb? Right, we're done, right, yeah. Every moment of my life, from conception, is an affront to god. It is a steady state of rebellion after rebellion after rebellion after rebellion after, which is why Ecclesiastes says even the fetus that never sees the light of day is better than a man who lives a full life. Wow, isn't that wild, yeah, crazy, right, I'm steadily accruing this debt, this sin, this debt, and I'm going in negative arrears in my bank account, right In the cross, colossians chapter two. All of that debt is taken away, right, paid for by the blood of the King.
Speaker 2:That's the weight I felt lifting when I got saved 100%.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:That was it. But he doesn't stop there, and this is why the evangelical church is really, really bad at getting to the resurrection, because in the resurrection, a couple minutes ago, the righteousness of Jesus is now tested, proven and resurrected. Righteousness, right, and that's different than anything they had in the Old Testament, the righteousness hadn't been through the process of death and made it out the other side.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 3:So in the New Testament, the imputation of his righteousness and the impartation of his righteousness weds us with the person worker, the Holy Spirit, in a way that the Old Testament saints never had. Yeah, it's fully realized now 100%.
Speaker 3:So there was a way. There's no faith in justification without the work of the Spirit, full stop. Yeah, so even in Abraham, justification happens because the Spirit of God is at work. Okay, in the New Testament, the Spirit of God works upon a righteousness that has now been uncovered. Before it was this thing that's covered up and god says to abraham abraham believed god and god credited it to him as righteousness. Well, the whole second heavens is going. What about us? Why you don't forgive us? How dare you forgive David? God, you're righteous, you're just. And so this heavenly dilemma. John Piper put it this way nobody ever conceives of God's problem. Right, right, right, says the.
Speaker 2:The old testament proverb says if a if a judge justifies the wicked he's evil and yet god does it all the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was just going to quote that text, man right so the accusation against the character of god is ever present in that heavenly throne room until the sun dies and rises Right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 4:I think it's good to stay there for a little bit, but you don't mind me saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:I'm just going to juxtapose our religion with other religious systems out there. Take, for example, islam religious systems out there. Take, for example, islam. And in those religions you have god doing the same thing, namely, you know, justifying the wicked or offering mercy. But that dilemma is not assuaged, it's not, it's not done away with. Our god could be seen as just because, like you just quoted a text, he who justifies the wicked is an abomination to god. Yet god justifies the wicked. We're all wicked, right. Allah does that for. But what basis or what justification does he have to justify the wicked and still remain just? You can't do that. No judge right now. Currently, if you were to murder somebody and you bring the evidence to the judge and the judge were to say, for example, well, I forgive them, I'm a merciful judge, that wouldn't be mercy, because the judge put there to uphold justice right, and in fact he would be more sinful than the person who killed, a who murdered.
Speaker 4:And in the christian system, our god could be seen as just, truly not, because he willingly or willy-nilly forgives just, you know, for no reason arbitrary yeah, arbitrarily, but because us um a sacrifice of infinite worth was given correct so if you were to add up all the people, all the sinners in all the world, and all but because a sacrifice of infinite worth was given. So if you were to add up all the people, all the sinners in all the world and all the times, and put them on one scale, and then you put Christ on the other side he outweighs them all, because he's much more precious and his blood satisfies the justice of God.
Speaker 4:But you don't have that in other religions, so I just thought it would be important to kind of stress that.
Speaker 2:Love that, yeah, you know, important to kind of stress that. Love that, yeah, yeah, that's a huge, huge indicator of the, the, the power of, of the gospel here you know, right.
Speaker 3:And so what is the power of the demonic? Originally, the. The power of the demonic is this uh, deception, that that starts in satan. He deceives, he is self-deceived first and foremost. He rebels against God. Death becomes his nature. Yeah, okay, corruption becomes his nature.
Speaker 3:You read the Ezekiel and and um Isaiah, the historical, historically accepted within the church views of when Satan fell. And I don't have a problem if people want to use those texts to look at the false Satan. I teach them the same way, especially from a divine council worldview. Like he is talking to human rulers, but he's talking to them with language that makes it absolutely apparent. He's not talking to you, just to human rulers, right, like you don't call the king of tear a cherub, but yet in the passages he's in when he's addressing these human kings, he's using supernatural language to talk to them. Sure, and so it's obvious. In, you know, divine council worldview, you realize the, the greater supernatural worldview of the Bible, human rulers are always backed by a spiritual, territorial spirit. Oh, yeah, okay. So all that's present.
Speaker 3:Satan falls, is removed from his position as a throne guardian, which is what a cherub is, and his nature is now corruption. And he is now. His nature is now corruption. Anything that he can get to fall to follow his deception takes on his nature, and that includes these several heavenly rebellions which most christians think there's only one rebellion in the bible. And there's not, there's several, there's at least four, and possibly seven, depending on how you look at certain texts. Okay, okay, um, all of those spirits take on that same nature of corruption as the devil, right?
Speaker 3:How does? How does the devil now have a chokehold on humanity when Adam sins? Because Satan is the source. Adam takes on the nature of the satanic, of the demonic, of this fallenness. Death becomes the corruption that is present inside of Adam, that spreads to all humans, creates this chokehold. What is the nature then? How did adam fall? He disobeyed god, right? He broke the ready law. No, adam, don't touch, don't, or don't taste, touch, don't taste. Yeah, you can keep the tree, you don't get to eat of its fruit, right, okay, right. The devil then has full rights to accuse anyone who is in sin as the ones over which he rules. Yes, it's the reason why Satan offers all the kingdoms of the earth to Jesus. Jesus, they're all satanic, that's right. The reason why there's only two families, there's only two kingdoms, there's only two camps.
Speaker 1:There's only two kingdoms there's only two camps.
Speaker 3:There's only yeah, right, you're either of God's household or the devil's household. Right, there's no in between. Right, the nature of how the devil keeps us bound before God in that heavenly throne room is based on my sin, which he gets to be like.
Speaker 3:Jesse did the thing and he's not wrong, that's the reason why Shane and Shane's song embracing accusation is so powerful. But the devil's forgotten the refrain Jesus saves, so the blood of the lamb pays for my sin, but then his resurrected righteousness credits me before God. So now my bank account, which was in the negative, I get forgiven. It goes to zero. But that's not enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:If all he does is forgive me, I'm still at a zero balance before God. I've got no standing before God. He must then credit me the righteousness of Christ, which is the gospel. The death and resurrection of Jesus is the gospel. When he credits me the righteousness of Jesus, I am now removed from that old system of governance through which the demonic has rule yes, there's god and placed into a new place called romans, chapter 8, the law of the spirit of life in christ jesus. That's right. Jesus creates a new sphere of being living everything. That double work of the disarming of the demonic in the cross and paying for sin, and then the disenfranchising of the devil by breaking the power of death and the chokehold of death over humans, that twofold work changes everything, not just for humans but for everything right. And that's the nature of christus victor, the, the idea that jesus, in conquering the demonic, is god's answer to everything right and god's answer to all problems, evil, etc.
Speaker 2:Is christ crucified and risen yes, yes, so the you know, humanity being beholden to satan, essentially, is the problem. This is the solution, right, and that's just. That's as simple as you can put it, really, but I think you know it's interesting because, while you're talking, I'm thinking about all the ways that we are set apart. You know, as citizens of this kingdom, right, that we're living in a foreign land when we're citizens of the kingdom of god, because this is a foreign land this is a foreign land yeah, 100, and that's why we're set apart in the eyes of those living in that land yeah, right, yes yeah, what?
Speaker 2:what are these guys doing here? Why are they acting differently? Why do they have this light about them? This boy, who's who's who's your god, you know? Yeah, yeah, I like that, yeah, I like that yeah, it's cool, it it's?
Speaker 3:uh, I was talking texting with pastor steve earlier and it's the distinction of the land of Goshen, right exactly In Egypt.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:When God judges all the gods of Egypt and the people of Egypt, it's both. Okay that, why is my crops destroyed? But those in right relationship with Yahweh, theirs isn't destroyed, right yeah. And when they leave Egypt, a bunch of Egyptians go dude, your God is superior to ours. We want to come with you.
Speaker 3:And it becomes the reason and I think we've had this conversation before it is more and more necessary that the people of God learn to live by the supernatural A. There's no such thing as a powerless Christianity. Okay, one of the people we're going to interview here in a month. I have her quoted and I have it written in my notes where she says a powerless Christianity.
Speaker 2:What did she say? Let me read it, it real quick. I listened to them yesterday too I like that interview they did.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was good. She says churches without power are misrepresenting the blood of jesus this yep scathing the buke well and and it's it's power systemically. It's not just power to conquer sin, it's power for miracles, it's power for victory over the demonic, it's power for a fill in the blank. Yeah, hebrews. Chapter 11 is clear both that which is patently supernatural and that which is not perceived as so supernatural but yet is just as supernatural.
Speaker 2:They both come from the same spot yeah, and then and this is one of the things that's filling that bank account is becoming skilled in the ability to utilize the, the, the gifts of, perhaps, or at least notice them working in your life.
Speaker 3:Well, let me correct the language a little bit. And it's this it's not filling the bank account, it's working from the bank account. Great, because it's already given to me. Sure, and the emphasis becomes I'm not working for justification, I'm working from justification. I'm not working for victory, I'm working from victory. No earning.
Speaker 2:Yes, no earning Correct.
Speaker 3:I am already seated with Christ in heavenly places.
Speaker 4:Praise God.
Speaker 3:Love it and if that's true, I don't have to try to get there. It's already true. Sure, terrence and I we've had many conversations about the men in the 1800s who are praying from these places and they're like, nope, god's gonna provide the food and you know there's no food. On an orphanage, on the table for the orphanages, you know, 50, 60 kids, there's no food. And by the time the the middle of the dinner moment comes, here comes somebody walking with food. Hey, god told me to come do this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, he was operating from the fact of his position with god before it was even seen in the natural right yeah wow, you think of these moments like new pastor steve early on with with uh lighthouse and you know I've seen this before in other instances too he's preaching on on um, on bread in the house, or something like that, and some dude pulls up from a bakery company with a truck full of bread. God told me this morning I'm bringing this to this house and so now there's bread coming out of everybody's ears. Yeah, as steve's preaching on bread.
Speaker 3:Right, that means god was already in motion talking to that dude hours before you know. You get up at four o'clock in the morning to do bread yep and run deliveries. That's right that's right god was already in motion doing those things unbelievable right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that they may know 100 and it's always so obvious, you know, with these amazing, like miracles that he's pulling off in our lives, you know, um, they're always so poignant, you know, and sort of just pointed directly at it, to where it's like so obvious that this is, yeah, you know, supernaturally charged, this experience right here. You know you can, you can, you can, really you can always point to God when he's involved you know what I?
Speaker 2:mean and give glory to Him, which you should. Amen, amen. I think that that's kind of where I'm going with it is. We're not earning it. However, we are participating in it to a very large degree, but there are also passive Christians who are not, you know. So what's the difference Like? How does this play out? Is the covering weaker? Is it stronger? What's going on here? What's the difference there? You know?
Speaker 3:No, I think there is a potential that exists that isn't actualized. Okay, good, and so the provision is already made for like. One of the problems with the Pentecostal movement is this idea that healing is a guarantee in the atonement. If healing was a guarantee in the atonement, then we'd see a whole lot more people healed. Healing is provided for in the atonement, meaning everything that Jesus has done was purchased in the atonement, in the cross and in the resurrection. So if god heals you, that was purchased 2 000 years ago at the cross on your behalf, from from jesus right that that happened then and it's now being applied to you now got it. And so this, this actualization moment and you know I want to be careful, I don't want to, you know, drift into the yeah self-actualization and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:But but there is a conceptual difference between that which is potential and that which is actual. Yeah, right, and, and that's that, I think, is the difference. Then there there is the thing that you know a lot of people in america think they're christian and they're not.
Speaker 3:We have long been guilty of easy believism in america right where where people have said just say yes to jesus and everything will be good. Just say this prayer and you're a christian. And saying a prayer doesn't make you a christian, right, you know you? You've got to really encounter god. Yes, you got to really be born again. A revelation of his character? Yeah for sure. Personal interaction with him.
Speaker 4:So I also, sorry, go ahead, no, thank you. I also think the vehicle, or the difference rather between in regards to Christians true Christians here, why some people are seeing the actualization of certain things, it's this and people kind of forget this. There's a part where we play, called faith, and God values faith and God is grieved when we don't have faith, especially as His people. I'll give you two examples. In all of the Gospels there are only two times Jesus marvels. The examples were when His people didn't believe, when they should have. It says of Him. For example, in the boat scene. There a storm comes, jesus is asleep. They ask him Lord, do you love us? Right? And he's grieved by that. He says he says the narrative says he marveled.
Speaker 4:On the other side of the coin, there's a time when a Gentile person meets Jesus and he says look, would you heal my servant? And Jesus says okay, I'll come to your house and heal him. He says, no, you don't have to come to my house, I'm a man of authority. I know what it's like to say to somebody you come and he'll come. And I say stay, and he stays. Just say the word Jesus. And I know if you say it, because your authority counts for something, then it'll be done.
Speaker 4:And the Bible says Jesus marvels. And so I say all that to say this there's an aspect of you have not because you ask not. That's a real thing that Christians need to. Sometimes we get lopsided in our faith. We uphold one truth at the expense of another. We have to uphold both. God is sovereign. God gives us salvation. We're justified. We can't do anything to lose that. Yet in our justification we play the part of sanctification, and part of that is believing and trusting god, and if we don't do that, we don't see the miracles. Whether that come into the forms of like a supernatural thing or it looks like jesse said, like a normal thing, both are coming from the same source. They're both miracles. But there's this aspect, though, where individual, individually, we must believe god, and if we don, we have not because we ask not.
Speaker 3:So there's that Philippians, chapter two, says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, which seems to place the emphasis on us, and then he immediately follows it with for it is God who is in you both to will and to do so, to want to and to accomplish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this, this through line through all of this, since the garden as well, this accomplish. Yeah, this, this through line through all of this, since the garden as well, this has been honoring our free will. You know, yeah, our free choice, as you like to put it. Yeah, and we have the choice to worship the way we want to worship, but we also have the choice not to participate yeah right and not ask, like you're saying, to not have to, not pray incessantly, whatever it may be.
Speaker 2:We have the opportunity, through free choice, to be passive Christians as well, and he honors that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he definitely honors that. I think there's. I was talking to somebody last night I was like, look, there is a place for hey, nice to see you here. You barely got in. That's going to offend people, okay. But that's what first Corinthians, chapter three depicts the foundation is Jesus. You built with the wrong stuff, your stuff is tested by fire, you're rewarded upon what, what remains. But if your foundation is Jesus for real, yeah, and all your stuff is burnt up, you make it in. And then Paul says this, yet by fire, yeah, Wow.
Speaker 3:And it's like you can, you know? Hey, nice to see you here. You barely made it, but I'm glad you're here Right. Well done, good and faithful servant.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And there is absolutely a way to live on this side of the veil. Like so many people are so caught in this sin conscious way of living before God that they, that they, don't reach for victory.
Speaker 3:It's, it's almost like a fellowship in failure, fellowship in sin, fellowship in in being beat up by the devil, fellowship. And you know, oh, you know, someday, you know, we'll be there on that side and then everything will be better. And it's like, bro. That is not a bride without spot or wrinkle, dressed in gleaming bright clothes. That is not a Daniel statement that says those who know their God will do great exploits.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Well said.
Speaker 3:That is not in Jesus's promise. He said this those who overcome. Overcoming is victorious. Yes, Paul's statement In all these things, we overwhelmingly conquer.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So there is a sense of you barely made it in, but there is also a sense of no, you, you can. You can walk into glory on this side glowing yep as james puts it, without being ashamed 100
Speaker 3:you, you can be before him without with with clean hands and a pure heart and, of course, it's based on the work of jesus like're having this conversation with somebody else too. All the sacrifices in the Old Testament system. Where's the energy for all of that provided for? It's from the fire that God sent when he authorized the whole thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:The sacrifices on the altar are consumed by the fire God sent. Right. Yes are consumed by the fire God sent. Yes, the incense that's burnt at the altar of incense before the Holy of Holies is burnt by the fire that God sent Right. The oil and the fire that lights. The oil is energized by the fire that God sent the whole thing. He gets credit for all of it. If he doesn't send the fire, it's just destructive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Absolutely Okay, but yet we still got to bring our sacrifice. Yes, we still got to pray.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well said God uses means to accomplish his ends. And part of that is prayer and the activity of the saint and there's a very real reward for what I do in them and for him. And it's not for salvation, it's his grace and goodness. That is like I love you and I want to dote on you. And, as a good father, gives the keys to the card the son who's responsible. That is an accolade for the son who's responsible. Sure.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah Amen.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen. So you got to. You got a large contingent of people in the West that are made for lack of a better term like worldly Christians, who are professing Christ but living by the world, and they might not be fully aware of the supernatural implications of those choices right, because they're now open to the exploits of the enemy in a kind of a dangerous way. Also, people that are fully aware of this spiritual conflict that's happening just on the other side of the veil and see it as a large gamble to step into that, onto that battlefield, if you will, because now you're on the radar of the enemy even more than you were, just you know, by accepting salvation, right, yeah, so there's a lot of stuff going on here.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. So the moment you say that, the first thing that comes to me is Matthew, chapter 25, where God gives him a talent he goes. I buried it because I was afraid.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:Exactly yeah, no Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So for that latter group, who are aware of the battle and yet not enrolling in the conflict, right as the Christian, with this supernatural authority over all the realms that we have, they're playing that passive role former group that's just sort of doesn't really care about the supernatural elements of this walk and are just living for the world. You know, there's I think there's a big difference in perspective there. But let's talk a little bit about that. Like, how does, how does, how is God perceiving all of this? You know how, what can we learn from the Bible about how God sees, say, the first group of people who are just living for the world and not necessarily even aware of their spiritual gifts or aware that they can be a part of the battle?
Speaker 3:You mean ones who think that they're Christian.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's what you were getting at huh, yeah, some of them.
Speaker 3:So there's two different types that you're pointing to, one that believes that they're a Christian and they're completely not, and they've got zero idea on what anything Christian actually means. It's more of cultural Christianity than an actual relationship with God, thank you. And those ones are dangerous because they have an idea that they're okay when in fact they're not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the other ones are actually worse yeah, because they know better and they're picking to not do it. Which is the, the talent where, where the lord gives to one of his slaves, his servants, a talent so it's not a servant of the enemy, it's his and they they pick to do nothing with it and he takes it away from them and they're assigned a place in the outer place anyway yeah, yeah yeah right, like you're, you're the the one of the first things that is rebuked in revelation concerning what's not allowed in cowardice is cowards, they're they're draft dodgers.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I like that. Yeah, the pacifists, yeah.
Speaker 2:I know there's a war, but they're not enlisted. They're not enlisted, that's a great word, and yet they know what side they're playing for and they're still not jumping in.
Speaker 3:And so, in the final analysis, they're really not playing for that side at all.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was just going to say yeah, yeah, they may think so, but they're not actually playing. The pacifists prove that they're not really enlisted or caring about enlisting with the Lord, because they have no real desire to. They just profess.
Speaker 3:That's right. That answers my question, and so you get the statement of Jesus in several places you know where. I believe he would say the same thing to them places you know where.
Speaker 2:I believe he would say the same thing to them I never knew you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So back to spiritual warfare. That first group. They're vulnerable because they're not. They're living for the world. They're not when people say I'm not saved or I am saved.
Speaker 2:That's questionable for me. I'm not sure where to go with that. However, I think something more tangible is like what does your day look like? Are you praying? Are you giving praise to the Lord? Are you living for the Lord? Are you seeking His face right? Are these the things you're engaging in? Because if you've had a salvation experience, right, and maybe it was 10 years ago and you've sort of just backslidden, you know and you're now living for the world, you can always come back to the Lord. You know it's right there, but with someone who never really knew what it was like to embrace the Lord and has always sort of lived for the world and just goes to church on Sundays or whatever it is, they're playing or I would say they're oriented toward the kingdom and living as a citizen of the kingdom, yet one who is completely unarmored, completely vulnerable, because they're not generating that power in the spirit or they're not putting anything into it no relationship, no relationship, exactly yeah yeah, so with regards to spiritual warfare, these people are wide open, aren't they?
Speaker 3:oh yeah, okay, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think the the devil probably isn't too concerned about those people that was another question I had because, he already has his focus right, because you have sick people who are perhaps attacked demonically.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure that there's there's some lines there that like, is this just medical or generational or whatever it is, you know, hereditary? And then you have people who are, like, definitely attacked, where the doctor's like I don't know why this is happening to you. This is strange, what's going on here. And they might not even be christian. So it's like why would he't know why this is happening to you? This is strange, what's going on here. And they might not even be Christian. So it's like why would he? Why would the enemy, having someone who is not professing, you know, their faith in the Lord, not playing for the other team? Why would the enemy attack someone who's already living in the satanic world Just because it's what he does?
Speaker 3:So I think that there are those that he doesn't um and he leaves him alone, but I I think that there's probably a presence around them yeah so I think that there's like, for instance, dustin.
Speaker 3:Dustin goes to a psychic yeah and she's like you need to go to church. Why in the world would the dude batten for the other team tell Dustin to go to church? Right, and there's almost this, this awareness in the spirit realm. No, that one's marked for salvation. Marked, exactly that's what it is. This one, that one's marked for salvation and the enemy exactly that's what it is. This one, that one's marked for salvation and the enemy can see that.
Speaker 4:I believe so.
Speaker 4:I think so. Yeah, I do think there's an aspect too, though, where the devil, because of his nature of hate, there's this aspect where he just comes to kill, steal and destroy for no reason at all. And the same way that sin is just irrational, the devil's schemes and, uh, the ways in which he works, the evil that he does, it's just because he's evil. So I think sometimes there's no rhyme or reason. Sometimes we look for a rhyme or reason as to why things are occurring, but he's just evil.
Speaker 4:When joe, when he, when he came to get joe and you know this was by god's design, but there was no real reason for him to get joe he just wanted to kill and steal and destroy. That that's just his nature. So sometimes it's that I do think there's a sense in which he sees things in the spiritual too, whereby he might see, because you know the devil, they see angels, right, and the Bible kind of talks about these type of things, and so sure, there's times when he can see, alright, so potentially this guy could be saved. And I don't want that. I'm going to be preemptive in my attacks so as to attack him, but on the other side of the coin I think he's just evil and he just does evil because he's evil.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes me think of my wife and I in the latter years of our time in the New Age, how, how we started to experience demonic intrusion, if you will, and it was, you know, voiced to us by people. Actually, we were in ceremony when we were, you know, I think I told might have told the story, but we were in, say, ayahuasca ceremony and a number of other people in that group that night noticed something that was sort of around my wife and I and, yeah, and this was about nine months before we got saved, and I mentioned that because it was definitely a precursor to us coming to the Lord, because it showed me, it woke me up out of a space of no, I don't think the demons are real. I think it's more of a psychological thing. It's something I can overcome. Yeah, I can work on that and meditate my way through that. Nope, yep, I couldn't get through it.
Speaker 3:Bigger dog.
Speaker 2:Yep, it was my recognition that there was an evil spiritual presence, intelligence.
Speaker 3:Objective personal.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep. That was outside of me, that was oppressing me.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I couldn't do a thing about it, but I knew who could and that was the Lord, and so that's why I reached out to him, but it was almost as though them noticing that around us woke me up to a reality that I was completely asleep to, and I think that that may have ramped up because of the impending salvation.
Speaker 3:So I would agree. Jamie, jamie, we, jamie Walden, we interviewed, he talks, so he's a military guy, yeah, and he's got a. He's got a video I think I sent it to you a couple years ago where he's talking about how heavenly resource, angelic resource, parallels military resource on the face of the planet. Yeah, um, like operational security, okay, which means that there's a need to know, basis and those things that are not meant for public consumption are kept secret. Yeah, yeah, that's the reason why this, this idea of of OPSEC, is you know the short phrase for the short slang for it OPSEC, operational security, the recent. It's the reason why you got first, corinthians, chapter two. If they had known what they were doing, they would have never done it. Yeah, there was operational security. God had a plan in place, yep, and the scripture says that men crucified jesus.
Speaker 4:The scriptures say satan crucified, jesus the scriptures say the father crucified.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, yes all three right. And god is working inside and around, even the actions of the demonic there you go.
Speaker 4:Humans, they don't even know it right yep, yep.
Speaker 2:So the the months, couple of months prior to me getting saved, my depression, anxiety, all of this stuff starts to ramp up, which led to me being saved. So he so don't allowed that. Yeah, he said all right, enemy, kick it up full notch. Let's get this guy working for the kingdom.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, yeah, and there's even assignments, like you know, again, people who don't understand. If you don't understand that the devil is God's devil in the final analysis, you're not reading your Bible. You're not reading your Bible. He plays by God's rules in the final analysis.
Speaker 4:What he means for evil 100%.
Speaker 3:And there analysis what he means for evil 100. And there are places where, uh, you know, one of the curious ones is when god judges israel, the northern tribes, by sending assyria, and they come down and they deport the northern tribes, and then he judges judah and benjamin, the two southern tribes, by sending babylon, nebuchadnezzar. Right, my servant.
Speaker 2:He calls him 100 watch this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he even rebukes the spirits that are over it by saying you went too far and went beyond my anger. Yep, yep, yep. So he pulls up the wall, yeah, and the demonic begins to flood in and the lord is like you get to do this, you don't get to do that, and and then the demonic goes too far and he goes. Okay, you are the rod of my discipline, but now I'm going to judge you because you yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, for real, and you know, pastor Steve puts it this way. He's like it's not the things in the Bible. Don't understand that.
Speaker 4:Confuse me, it's the things that I do understand.
Speaker 3:Amen, yes, yes and this view of the greatness and the sovereignty of god, who's beyond all things and yet, yeah, it makes himself known and comes and takes on flesh and blood. Yeah, and that that he is working for an end that is glorious and good, and in the end he will be proven not just just, but good, right, sweet and kind yes yes, yes, like Genesis 50, 20, what you intended for evil. Joseph talking to his brothers, who sold him into slavery.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 3:And extrapolate to the rest of Joseph's story, potiphar's wife framing him the baker for forgetting him. Is it the baker or the?
Speaker 4:cupper yes, yes yes, one of them forgets.
Speaker 3:Both of them forget him. One of them dies Like all of it. Yeah, what man intended and the word there is intended. Yeah, so the motive of the human, by extrapolation, the motive of the demonic, was evil, right? Yes, god intended same word thing yep for good, right yep, yep, right yep amen, you've got uh, second Corinthians, chapter 12, and angel of Satan, a Angelo Satanus, a messenger of the devil, is given to me. God gave him. Keep me humble in order to keep them humble, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I asked God three times like here here goes your, you know, deliverance ministers get rid of the devil out of your life. Dude, god put it there and wouldn't take it away. Nope, not going to take it away, he said. I asked him three times. What does that mean? He didn't either get an answer at all or didn't get the answer he wanted. The first two times Probably didn't get an answer at all. God was quiet Because the final time God says my grace is sufficient.
Speaker 3:My strength is perfected in your weakness, and Paul goes sold, I'll be weak all the time then yeah.
Speaker 2:I get it Right. The stuff I do understand is the confusing stuff, and that is a great illustration for the spiritual realm, from our perspective, really, because we're not seldom are we given eyes to see, right, and that's for a reason. And we can enter into the spirit realm illegally, like through ayahuasca, other psychedelics, meditation, those kinds of things. That is all of our own accord, you know, sure, but not of God's, and so I think that, like, this is a good thing to talk about when it comes to spiritual warfare is what are we actually dealing with here? So we're talking about demonic, we're talking about the satanic kingdom, but the demons are essentially the minions carrying out the will of Satan or you know, operating within his spiritual kingdom, and their job is to essentially kill, steal and destroy.
Speaker 2:But they are doing so invisibly, working through in our lives, affecting us through what? Talking to our minds? Right, that's kind of the idea, right Is they can speak to our souls. They can speak to— Various means, yeah Right, but causing cataclysms. What kind of things are we talking about here? What is the operating potential of these demonic forces here? What are they allowed to do?
Speaker 3:Sure Terrence. Do you want to start?
Speaker 4:Sure. So I think there's an aspect where they work through our emotions and things like this. They exacerbate the sin that's already in our flesh. We don't need the devil to tempt us, we already have our own temptations, but they exacerbate these desires.
Speaker 4:But then there's also the aspect where Paul says in a certain place I think it's Ephesians 5, where he says we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against spiritual weaknesses, heavy places. The context there is dealing with people though the church, and so he's saying that the spirits, these demonic forces, work through people. So there's this aspect where the demons and the demonic forces you might get it in some random person flipping you off on, you know, on in the street somewhere for no reason, and how you, how you uh, either act or react could lead to a bigger problem. But behind that action there in the beginning is demonic forces. So it's various means with which he works. It's not just one thing, um, but we need to be mindful that, yeah, wherever sin exists behind that is demonic activity for sure, because we don't wrestle against flesh and blood.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think so. Terrence quoted Ephesians, chapter 6, and there's a couple of indications in there. The first is the flaming darts of the enemy, or poisonous arrows, depending on how you translate, fiery, and it speaks of ranged warfare. So it's almost like there's not this close quarter combat, right, um, but then it talks about the sword of the spirit, which is absolutely used in close quarter combat, right, yeah? And so this, this idea of the schemes of the enemy, there are times where, where it is distant and yet there is harassment with these kind of ranged attacks that are you know, thrown at me from the roof across the street.
Speaker 3:I don't know however you want to put that. Um, yes, part of that is thoughts. Yeah, additionally, it is indirect attacks that are through schemes you know my, my incited boss, who wants me fired. Or you know the, the girl down the street who you know knows that I'm single and now suddenly she shows up at my door and I'll come on the door. Or you know, whatever these, these kind of indirect attacks where the enemy sows something in the mind of a person and then, yeah, and your immediate context is, is human. But Paul's point is that didn't start there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:The thing started elsewhere, and in specific, in Ephesians. The greater context of Ephesians is this war against these principalities and spirits that own the earth and the revelation of the mystery that paul talks about, which is the recovery of of jew and gentile, made into one new man, and so paul's understanding of evangelism, which is why ephesians, chapter 3, says that it's the church's job to make known the administration of god's kingdom to these demonic powers. Amen, my job is to let the demonic realm know. No, it's not going to be like this today. Yeah, yeah, no, it's not. And that presumes that I'm on mission. It doesn't mean it's okay for me to pop off. Like you know, we're in our zone.
Speaker 3:Lots of people pop off a lot. Yeah, I'll rebuke the spirit of this and I'll rebuke the spirit of that. And jay and jude and peter are like dude. If you are rebuking angelic majesties and you're not like assigned to do so, you are stupid, like an unreasoning animal. Wow, what he says. Yeah, like unreasoning animals like these. These dudes are running around picking fights with angelic majesties and you know that that's obviously a different, a different, uh, class tier structure than your average local demon. Um, then you're, you're dumb and so. So we're not talking about popping off, but you know the the engagement with the demonic realm on what it is that God wants to do, which is why understanding, hearing God is so important. Love John MacArthur, but I saw a quote the other day where he was like if the Bible doesn't say it, god didn't say it. That's not true. That's not true. God speaks apart from the scripture.
Speaker 3:All the time to your conscience, to to your this, to that dude I've saw church sermons yeah, 100, yeah, and so his, his, his desire is to value the supremacy of the scripture, which we absolutely agree with. Yeah, whatever it is that god speaks apart from the scripture, it's never going to contradict what he speaks in the measure Right 100%, that's the key, 100%. And and the Bible. The Bible distinguishes that there is an active word of God that is different than the written word of God, which is why, he says test prophecy.
Speaker 3:Prophecy is the is a revelation of the word of God yeah, and we're supposed to test it. Yes, a revelation of the word of God? Yeah, and we're supposed to test it, yes. So that means he says test all things hold fast to that which is good, which means that potentially in prophecy there are things that are not good. Yeah Well, we don't do that with scripture. All of scripture is good.
Speaker 4:There's nothing aberrant in scripture.
Speaker 3:So, so I want to, you know, want. So. I want to be careful about that. But God speaks today and hearing his voice, like Jamie dude, where the Lord is like, stop asking me to heal him. Oh my God, such a powerful moment, such a watershed moment, not just for him but for so many people that are in the world he's in, which is a little bit different from our world that we're in um, and different from terence's to terence's um. You know, terence hangs out. His world's got a lot of cessationists in it. Jamie's middle of the road and you and I are full-blown. Like you know, we're speaking tongues all the time you know, so
Speaker 4:love y'all for that man.
Speaker 3:Amen, and so he hears the voice of the Lord in such a way that's demonstratively testably the Lord.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's the key, 100% Like, your son is healed. This is what's going to happen. Stop asking me to do it. And it shifts him into this zone where he's like, no like. Need to be able to hear the voice of the lord so much that he can, that the spirit of the lord can say do not open the door. Yeah, don't answer that. Knock right. Answer the next one. Don't answer that one, right. So hearing that gives me what it is that god wants to do and, and it's based on that, his will not mine that I then administrate versus the demonic realm.
Speaker 3:Ephesians, chapter 3. Sure, what does God want to do? Okay, god tells me what he wants to do. I now have my assignment. Now, my job is to go and do the assignment. Yeah, okay. Well, if God assigned it, every demonic spirit better get it out of the way, right, yep, and he may ordain that the demonic spirit is part of the assignment yeah that he's allowed that door or that wall open, so that I engage that spirit in that way yeah and ordains that part of the means by which he tells the demonic what they are and aren't going to do is his people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2:So your authority in the kingdom is only really activated if it is within the will and the assignment of God. Oh, there.
Speaker 3:there is, um, so there's. I was teaching on this the other the other night at a river campus. Um, all the authority of Christ belongs to you, based on relationship to Christ. Amen, okay, all the authority of Christ belongs to you based on relationship to Christ. Amen, okay. And you can be dumb as door snot and have relationship to Christ and, in a really bad place, call on the name of Jesus and he's going to come, amen.
Speaker 2:And it was not his will that you're there.
Speaker 3:Amen.
Speaker 1:Okay, Interesting yeah.
Speaker 3:And there's differences between what we call the permissive will of God and the perfect will of God.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:These ways in which we kind of try to parse Distinguish between Right Parse. What's the sovereign will of God? That's going to happen, no matter what and what's permitted. Yeah, things that he knows are going to happen, anyway, anyway, but he doesn't want them to happen. Like you know, peter says he, he doesn't, he, he, he wishes that all would come to salvation.
Speaker 3:Yet we know not all are going to come to salvation so there's this, this place in the will of god that expresses god's desire, versus the sovereign decree of god and what he says, okay, so, so you know, are there places where, where I'm, I'm his, but I'm walking into places that I shouldn't, and I begin to get in trouble? And then I call on the name of the Lord and I've got the access and authority because I've got relationship with him. Yes, okay, amen, yes, absolutely. The blood of the King is a real thing. Sure, he washed the heavenly realms in it, which means that it existed after he died.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is huge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, people don't understand the blood of Jesus existed even after it was gone from his body. Right, Because otherwise how does he wash the heavenly implements in his blood?
Speaker 3:right, yeah, okay yeah so there there is a, a very real sense in which the blood of jesus is, is, is still, and that still exists as a thing it's not an arbitrary esoteric idea right, okay yeah, so you get into a zone and you call on him and he comes and delivers because you've got relationship to the name and also other places where there are are spirits that will look and be like what are you doing here?
Speaker 3:yeah, you're dumb, you don't belong here and you know you don't belong here, right? And and it's like they see in the spirit they know like seven sons of skiva.
Speaker 3:They knew the sons of skiva did not have relationship to the name they were claiming yeah, all I know, jesus, I don't that's right and and you can have relationship to the name that you're claiming and still be in disobedience and still have some semblance of relationship to the name which, which is an authority that's different than than power, yeah, yeah, so in most instances, no matter how sloppy you are with that, with that authority, the lord is wants to be ready to stand in the gap for you yes, yes, intercede, yeah, yes, he's merciful, he's gracious and you know, we I would differ with with terrence on this, so him and I would differ, I don't know man, your answer was great actually, so let me just say this real quick
Speaker 4:yeah very detailed response. Wonderful uh point about the difference between god's permissive will and perfect will. Your answer is spot on. I have no disagreement with that at all no, what?
Speaker 3:what I mean is is, um that I do believe that there's a place where we can go too far okay I, I don't.
Speaker 3:I don't believe that we too lose our salvation like whoops. I, I had it in my pocket and now where did it go? Like I lost my car keys or something. Yeah, I believe that our salvation is durable. I believe that our salvation is strong. I believe that our salvation is strong. I believe that our salvation is sure, but I do believe that we can forfeit our salvation where we can say I don't want anything to do with God, and the Calvinists would say they were never saved in the first place. And the Armenian would say they were saved and they lost their salvation. And I would make both of them uncomfortable as a Calmenian who's much more Calvinist than Armenian, and I would be more like a three-point Calvinist than a five-point Calvinist for any theologians that are listening, which would, to them, make me not a Calvinist but Armenian friends.
Speaker 4:We love you anyway, man, it's okay Right. Calvinist, but Armenian friends, we love you anyway, man, it's okay Right.
Speaker 3:I'm usually too Calvinist for my Armenian friends and too too Armenian for my Calvinistic friends, and this would be one of the areas that that I do believe that there is a place where we can walk away from our salvation, and whether that means that I wasn't saved in the first place or whatever, you know the the the jury's still out for me, but but there is a place where you can go too far.
Speaker 3:is that apostasy? Yes, a willful turning away, where, where there are some very clear places and warnings in the scripture that seem to indicate that the person was saved and now they're not, and yeah, and, and. So there's a couple of them, there's by far more, that talk about the durability of salvation and the faithfulness of God to his own name, not even above me, and which, like Moses, says to God look, you got to bring them up for your own sake not theirs, yeah right sake, not theirs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, where he goes, he says, if you don't bring them up, the world's gonna look and say god could get him out of egypt, but he couldn't get him into the promised land. And so he says, for your own namesake, redeem them, and god's like you're right. Actually I like that, yeah, and so there's a, a persistence and a faithfulness on behalf of God, because of the Father and the Son's faithfulness to each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we belong to the Son, right.
Speaker 3:Yes, and so that's the durability stuff. So there's a whole lot more passages that refer to that, but there are a couple that are very problematic for Calvinists, that they have to deal with for Calvinists, that they they have to deal with. So, at any rate, that that's a conversation that's beyond this table. But so there there is a place where you can go too far and there there is a very, very real you know, I'll tell you the story of my daughter, where she runs away from home to go be with someplace, somebody she shouldn't be with, in a place she shouldn't be in, and um, and she has a dream and she calls me at three o'clock in the morning. She's like, dad, she's freaked out, freaked out, and I'm and you know, I've been praying, all right, god, you gotta, you gotta shake her up. And, uh, she calls me and she's like I had a dream.
Speaker 3:We were in a house and she was with the people that she wasn't supposed to be with and a possessed person came up, or a spirit that looked like a person came up. One of the two, yeah. But she knows she's engaging a demon. And she looks at it and she goes I rebuke you in the name of jesus. And he looks at it and she goes I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. And he looks at her and goes you have no right to use that name, whoa. And she goes and in the dream she hits the floor weeping and crying and she said she it felt like this spirit was disgusted with her.
Speaker 3:Oh, like normally demonic spirits, if they got a shot at someone who was a believer, they will torment them yeah they, they will go after them, they will increase because, like you know, no, the, the, uh, the people we're going to interview here in a month, they, they were like dude, the devil doesn't believe in divorce. Nope, you can't get once. You're his, they're they're, he does not believe in letting you go. Well, the truth is is that the blood of jesus trumps everything right. So typically the demonic, if it has access to a christian or someone who was a christian, they will increase their torment that makes sense this thing didn't even.
Speaker 3:It was like disgusted with her like you're not even worth my time.
Speaker 3:well, it says to her listen to language, look what you've become without your god. Wow, and I'm like. I'm so grateful that God has independently got involved on behalf of my kids, especially with some of the issues that they've had. Yeah, has independently got involved on behalf of my children to engage them, apart from me. Yeah, because it means number one they'll never be able to say he isn't real. And number two, when they do engage him, it will be for real and I'll see my kids in heaven yeah, which is super important amen okay super most important thing yeah, 100 and so, um, so what?
Speaker 3:what happens? This, this spirit, observes that she is, is disconnected. I, you know, I don't know what she saved and then wasn't saved and then comes back and gets saved again. You know, the calvinists and the armenian would debate on that process, but right now she's saved and she's at home and she's listening to worship music and amen.
Speaker 2:So you know amen, yeah, amen for real. We're gonna figure out how we got there, but that's okay praise god, don't man well before we wrap, I think you know let's talk about the practical, so we have well, first I want to say anyone who's listening, who's not saved, you know, highly recommend it putting it mildly five stars yeah, great reviews, um, stellar reviews.
Speaker 2:No, because of this battle that's happening and you are, whether or not you know it, if you're not under the covering, you are very vulnerable. Yeah, you're in a bad place, you know, spiritually, engaging in spiritual practices that make you feel good and make you feel like you're advancing or ascending, whatever the lingo is. But the enemy's got you and he's happy to have you there, so he might not be tormenting you. Now, when you start to move toward the light, that's when it's going to notch up a bit, ratchet up a bit. But the reason I'm saying that is because you can go for for as long as you want to go being deceived by this, and you know, live a life that you choose, but it's, it's happening in the subtext of your life and it's only going to get worse and worse.
Speaker 3:this is life, is spiritual yeah, anton levy, on his deathbed, you know, realizes something's wrong, something's very, very wrong, right he? He, like I don't know if he got to see in the spirit or something like that, but aware immediately, I've wasted everything.
Speaker 2:Right, wow, right volunteer too, and as soon as the veil was lifted, using him as an example, right, he's on his deathbed. He's, he's, you know, navigating the new, the worlds. Now he's navigating the, the, the. He's moving through the veil and he sees very clearly exactly what I'm talking about that life is spiritual, it always will be, and if you're not playing for the right team, you're in a real, you're in a real place of spiritual darkness, without probably even knowing it, and it's only going to get worse. But what I do want to say for the believer is what are we talking about here? So believers waking up in the morning, connecting with God through prayer, worship, praise, scripture, scripture, good, and then asking the Lord what the will is for them today, now, if His will is for them to intercede for a family member, say, who's under attack? Right, what are they doing? They're suiting up in the full armor of God. I would say probably right, absolutely right. What?
Speaker 3:are they doing? They're suiting up in the full armor of god. I would say probably right, absolutely so. My, my view of the armor of god is that it is christ himself good, and it's the when.
Speaker 3:When you look at the quotations, paul quotes several old testament passages and it's first jesus who warden one wearing those things. Okay. So in particular, the, the helmet of salvation, and the, the belt of truth, is what we see in the new testament, but it's citation in the old testament and is is isaiah. And it's the belt of faithfulness, the belt of one who is true. Yes, not truth in the propositional sense, true in the moral sense, that you're loyal, faithful and a true person. What you see is what you get good. And it says god looked, and, and it quotes the. It's from the same passage that that paul quotes in romans when he says none is righteous, none have done good. We're all like blind men leading, you know, bumping along the wall, trying to figure out. And it's just this full-blown judgment against the lack of righteousness in humanity. And then it says this the Lord looked and it wasn't pleasing to him, so he put on righteousness as a breastplate. That's right.
Speaker 3:His salvation as a helmet, he placed truth and girded himself, or faithfulness as a belt on his loins, and so the image of the armor of God biblically is that, in the incarnation, jesus went to war. Yeah, right, right, jesus went to war. He stepped into time and space, took on all of these implements, warred and won against the devil and ascended, and now he's given us his armor, which is his righteousness.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's the gospel.
Speaker 3:His righteousness. And Romans 14 says put on the armor of light and then parallels that to putting on Christ and putting off the old man. There you go, Christ, and putting off the old man. Yeah, there you go, and so this idea of being armored up is directly connected to my daily death to self Right, and walking in the righteousness of Christ is how I remain.
Speaker 3:Armored up, good there are some folks who are like I'm going to put on the armor and I'm going to, and they get all esoteric with it. I don't go that route, you want to do that. Praise God Sw, swing your bible around like a sword in your room and pray against the devil whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, or you know, god bless you. I'm glad you're praying and you've got a bible. Yeah, so I I? From my understanding it is a. This is like like david when saul said here, take my armor. David puts it on and he goes it's not tested, I can't take it out on the battlefield. Yeah, that's not the armor we have. The armor that God gives us is proven, it's tested.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:It's the righteous robes of Jesus himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And he is seated on the throne and given us that suit of armor, and that is what we wage war in. And so in the gospel connection to jesus, in which his righteousness is imparted and imputed to me in his resurrection. His death pays for my sin. His resurrection grants me his tested righteousness, proven righteousness that breaks the hold of death. I walk in in that daily, okay, and so the necessity of trying to walk through, armoring myself up every day. If that helps you, god bless. You do what you gotta do, but if you're in right relationship with him, that's the point, because you can cite Ephesians, chapter six, till you're blue in the face, and it does nothing against the demonic realm, cause you're still living for you, right yeah, if you're missing the cross, then there's no point crossing that direction.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so that that morning sort of um attention to the Lord seeking.
Speaker 3:So what I do is is I'm like okay, God, thank you for the gospel, yeah, right thank you for forgiveness and thank you for your righteousness, and then I turn my heart to his, his purpose, good yes and as I'm turned toward his purpose, which I think is where you were going right, how do we figure out his will so that we can then execute against the, the demonic?
Speaker 3:what it is that god wants to do is, you know, the coming into his courts, uh, coming into his gates with thanksgiving, in his courts with praise, kind of this. This you, you turn your heart toward the work of god and the majesty of god, and that connects you to him. Yeah, yeah. And then in that spot, you let him, you, you give over yourself to. This is your life, it's not mine.
Speaker 4:That's right, that's right.
Speaker 3:This is yours, not mine, and so therefore, god, what do you want to do?
Speaker 4:I think we make it more complicated than we need to be. Here's a specific text. This is the will of God for your life, your sanctification. So, in other words, paul is only saying what Jesus said prior to him. He said seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. So, in essence, wake up and do what God wants you to do. By the way, I find that to be a slight rebuke from the Lord. We talk about you know God's mercy and hearing his voice. In all these ways he talks aside from the Bible, bible. I oftentimes wonder if we're not hearing him because we're not even listening to what he's already said in the scriptures. So if we seek his will by sanctification and doing you know what I just said there, then he may well, you know, be pleased to just talk to us in other ways. But if we're not listening in the first place, why would he talk?
Speaker 3:you see, right, right, yeah 100 and I I think that that goes back to romans 12 1. There's a couple places where it talks about the will of god. One of them is very clear. Terence just cited it god's will for your life is this. Sanctification, meaning you die. He rises makes you more holy, that right that you said succinctly. Another one is romans 12 1 present your bodies as living sacrifices, spiritual service of worship. And then he says this that you may prove what the will of god is. Yep, and so we have the ability, as believers, to demonstrate and prove the will of god where it's not a mystery yeah it is not a mystery, and it takes death to self.
Speaker 3:Well, he starts with present your bodies as living sacrifices, be transformed by the renewing of your mind, not be conformed to the ways of this world, but transformed by the renewing of your mind. And so there's this, this transformative dynamic, where the result or the cookie is you get to prove the will of god.
Speaker 2:Yeah yes, dude, sign me up amen amen amen and it yeah and that that was actually really simply put in and I think that you know we're submitting to the process of sanctification which, again, is that incremental uh purification, if you will yes, yes well said yes, out of holiness exactly um, you know it takes time, for sure, but devoting ourselves to that, and that's why I think that, like this idea of, you know, laying the foundations of the kingdom, doing war in the spirit this is mentioned.
Speaker 2:However, it's probably not recommended for new Christians. Do you know what I mean? Because there's in as much as we have, we're not earning our salvation daily. What we are doing is maturing through sanctification and, like anything else, when you have battle-hardened veterans who are going to war in the spirit, they're going to fare much better than the new recruit who doesn't know which way is the end of his rifle. You know what I'm saying. So I think there's a lot to be said about that. We won't go into it now.
Speaker 2:Rifle, you know what I'm saying. So I think there's a lot to be said about that. We won't go into it now, but I think that this really helps me see clearly that, like Terrence said, this is a daily. You know, submitting yourself to the cross, submitting yourself to this process of sanctification, is your goal and as you do so, you will gain deeper relationship with the Lord, because you're going to become more attuned to his voice and his will and in that, if he has a new assignment one day down the road to go to battle against this principality. Whatever you need to do, join up with these guys, do a crusade, whatever it is. You're going to know that that's the thing to do at one point. But prior to that, if you're saying I'm going to go to war against this principality, then you're out of alignment.
Speaker 2:You Prior to that, if you're saying I'm going to go to war against this principality, then you're out of alignment.
Speaker 3:You're out of step with the will of God. I mean, he may call you to do something like that David's killing lions and bears on the backside of the mountain, just by himself. But see what does David say when he tells Saul that he killed the lion and the bear. He was being about his father's business. I was standing on the father's sheet. Interesting.
Speaker 3:I wasn't out there on my own, I was out there on assignment, even though I'm 15 years old or 14 or you know, he's probably probably 14, 15 around the time of goliath, which means 12 and 13 killing lions and bears yeah, about his business yeah yeah, that, that, that you know, that can be thing, and there are some who who get saved and they're immediately thrust into spiritual warfare. Amen. And I think the balance is if you're involved in a good local church, you're not standing by yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah the lord and you're in a good, healthy church and you're being discipled. Then you got folks who are reigning you in when you're, when you're starting to get, you know, two off, bite off more than you can chew, sure, um, and so so I I think that that's there too. So, yeah, I, you become a christian, you get a target put on your back. You need to learn to fight like you're yeah you're in the water.
Speaker 3:That's good to hear. Um, yeah, but though. So one of the components of the armor of god is a shield, and that shield of faith is like four by two or something like that, and it's meant to overlap with your brother next to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow thanks, yeah, it's exactly right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the, it, the, the overlapping with your shield brother next to you, or you know top, bottom and side, is what makes you protected.
Speaker 4:So you're not alone, yeah.
Speaker 3:Spiritual warfare is not meant to be just me on a mountain calling down you know this.
Speaker 2:There you go, Okay.
Speaker 3:So the New Testament image like you know, you got Elijah by himself 450 prophets of Baal and stuff.
Speaker 4:Exception, not the rule.
Speaker 3:Right, that's there, but by and large the normal expression of spiritual warfare is I am linked with brothers and sisters side by side, elbow to elbow, where their shield is covering me and my shield is covering them, and we're not alone in this.
Speaker 2:Yet another way we're set apart, I think. So often we see in the fantasy world and occult world the wizard is a simple entity. The lone guy, he shall not pass Just alone. But that's not how we're doing it. I love that. Praise God, praise God for real. You guys got anything else?
Speaker 3:no, I, I think my closing thought is is is that, uh, anyone listening to this? The? Uh, the evangelical world tends to emphasize the cross, and they should, and they, they don't emphasize the resurrection and that when you look at um what it is that the book of acts, why? Why were they receiving flack? It wasn't because they were preaching crucifixion.
Speaker 3:It's because they were preaching resurrection that's right and the resurrection is in light of the crucifixion. So one is necessary for the other. But if all you do is have a cross and you don't get to the resurrection from the tomb, from rising from the dead, then the cross is not good news. The cross is the evidence of God's justice against you.
Speaker 4:Judgment yeah.
Speaker 3:That's right, and the credit of the righteousness of Jesus is distinctly connected to the resurrected life of Jesus. And so you know, labor to make the gospel full in the cross and the resurrection and stay there. That's the thing there. Yeah, that's the thing you know. The the they overcame him. Revelation 12 who, the devil, by the blood of the lamb is across a word of their testimony. That's the resurrection right yeah, what was the testimony? The witnesses in the book of acts.
Speaker 3:He rose yeah, alive okay he is alive, he is not dead. And we, we tend to chalk up testimony to the personal things he's done in our life, which isn't wrong. That is our testimony. But the greater testimony is why do the personal things in my life even matter? Because he's alive, yes, well said, because he rose. That's right. And that results in the last component that many people leave out of that Revelation 12. It's not just the blood of the lamb and the word of the testimony, but they love, not their lives, even when faced with death. And how is that secured in the book of Acts? Because of the resurrection.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:I will give my life away because I know when I die I'm seeing him. Why? Because he rose.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, because he's alive. Right. Therefore, death is not a master over me, because he broke the power of death Right. So stay fully. Gospel, the absolute cross. You must die, but in God's economy you die. He rises.
Speaker 2:Yep, amen, amen, thank you. Guys must die, but in God's economy you die, he rises. Yep, amen, amen, thank you guys. Beautiful stuff.
Speaker 4:Those are the thoughts T yeah. For anybody who's like struggling with their faith and wanting to get to the side Jesse's talking about, I think it's important to say this Spend some time just studying what the gospel is and studied who died on that cross or that tree. Learn from him. Recognize two things in particular, though who you are in truth and the secrecy of your own heart. Think about that, and then think about who died freely to save you from that, and that's going to catapult you. As the Bible says in a certain place, he made us zealous unto good works. You don't get zealous unto good works apart from understanding who you are and what he's done for you, in despite of who you are. That's right.
Speaker 4:So, meditate upon who died on that tree. It wasn't a mere angel or some good person. It was God himself, leaving glory, clothing himself, like Jesse mentioned a minute ago, clothing himself in righteousness as a breastplate and so forth and so on. A certain place said a body was prepared for him. This God became man and he's forever going to be a God man, but he left something that he's never going to get back for you. So let that. Meditate upon that. That's going to catapult you and cause you to be more zealous for him. You're not working towards again.
Speaker 4:I think it's important to say this you're not working for salvation, but from a place of surprise and awe and appreciation, so that the zeal is produced from a real place. It's truly working and obeying him becomes the gifts in and of itself. You're not working to get something. You're not looking to say Lord, I'm doing this so you can give me this thing I want here. No, that the obedience is the reward in itself, because you realize what he saved you from and who he saved you for. So meditate upon that Love it.
Speaker 2:Thank you, brother. Amen Love that. Thank you guys again for yet another wonderful conversation. Amen, yeah, thank you guys again for yet another wonderful conversation. Yeah, so fulfilling for me and on my walk. And we know we're getting some good feedback from others. So please continue to send your testimonies about how the show is affecting you Like I said earlier, questions, but also topics, stuff you want to hear about. I think that's a good thing to think about. And again, thank you to all listeners. We've got some great episodes coming up in the next couple of months, so please subscribe, make sure you're passing it along to other believers and people who could use this, people you know who are trapped in the new age, whatever it might be. Spread the word about the podcast here. We want to get as many ears on it as possible. So bless your hearts and glory to God, amen.
Speaker 1:Amen.
Speaker 2:Amen, guys Peace out. Blood and oil out Amen, amen, guys Peace out.
Speaker 1:Blood and oil out. Blood and Oil podcast is filmed and recorded by Pastor Jesse and Z. Guests may not reflect those of other people, institutions or organizations. A variety of guests will join us as we discuss modern events through a biblical lens. So buckle up and enjoy the ride. Thanks to all of our supporters and praise God for the opportunity to serve him in this way. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and pray for blessings upon your day.
