Prophecy, Character, and Church Discernment

When spiritual hype meets public scandal, many of us feel torn between shutting it all down and chasing the next big word. We take the harder, better road: keep the gifts, raise the guardrails, and let Scripture set the terms. Starting with a recent prophetic exposé, we unpack what the Bible actually says about prophecy, discernment, and the difference between power and holiness.

We begin by reaffirming the supremacy of Scripture—unique in being inspired, inerrant, and infallible—while acknowledging that prophetic impressions can be genuinely inspired and still partial. Acts 21 becomes our model case: believers received true insight about Paul’s chains but misapplied it through fear. That tension explains why Paul commands, “Do not despise prophecies, but test everything.” We walk through practical tests: sound doctrine about Jesus, self-control in the assembly, edification for the body, discerning of spirits, and the collective judgment of the local church.

Then we draw a crucial line between the office of a prophet and the gift of prophecy. Ephesians 4 shows that God gives people as gifts; in the Old Testament, the prophet’s life often was the message. By contrast, 1 Corinthians 14 describes congregational prophecy aimed at building up the church. We also separate forthtelling (revealing God’s heart now) from foretelling (God declaring the end from the beginning), and warn against demonic counterfeits that can deliver accurate data while diverting hearts from truth. Matthew 7 and Balaam remind us: power isn’t proof. Fruit is character—loyalty, humility, and love.

If deception is the headline of the last days, the antidote is simple and demanding: live in the Word, pray in secret and together, and root yourself in a healthy local church. The Spirit still distributes gifts as he wills; our role is willingness, submission, and love that governs every manifestation. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s wrestling with discernment, and leave a review telling us which biblical test helps you most.

Transcript

Cold Open: Man As Message

SPEAKER_03 0:05

So the man himself is the message. He doesn't just have the words of God. Demonstrates it. That's absolutely right. There is something in his life and what's happening that prophesies to the people that he's engaged with. Paul was putting guardrails on a church that was out of order. That's what he was doing. And if we never had a church that was out of order, we wouldn't have first Corinthians. Okay. So understand that God gets to do whatever he wants. And if he he wants to break rules, there are his rules. He gets to break them.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

In a time when faith can feel flat, distracted, and disengaged, the Blood and Oil podcast cuts through the noise to reveal the raw, unfiltered work of the Holy Spirit. Welcome to the Blood and Oil Podcast.

Purifying The Church And Calls To Repent

The Bowles Exposé And Public Responses

Real Vs False Prophecy: Definitions

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Welcome to Blood and Oil. Good to see everybody. God bless you. And the last week and a half has seen some pretty significant issues. And to be honest, it's it's been happening for probably the last 10 years. And what that means is so here's what God is doing. God is getting his bride ready. Like Revelation says that she will be dressed in in clean and white robes, which are the the acts of the righteous acts of the saints. And so he will come back for a church who is ready for him. What he's doing presently is he's separating the wheat from the terrace. And the the the encouraging thing is that God gives people opportunity to repent. Like you read the seven churches of Asia Minor, Revelation chapter two and chapter three, and and God gives those who have got some some very severe problems. And so concerning the stuff that's happening right now, people are failing uh sexually, uh, high profile leaders, people are failing financially. The the most recent one is is both sexual and false prophecy um that has come out of Reading with the Sean Bowles thing. And I want to be careful because um I I wanna I want to state for the record that I believe that there are true believers who go to that church, people who really love Jesus. When you when you read the book of Revelation, one of the the rebukes to the seven churches it is Jesus absolutely rebukes them for tolerating Jezebel, the false prophetess, and Balaam and the practices of Balaam and these these kinds of things. And so he gives them time to repent. And so I believe even if there's mixture inside of a local church, that that God will do everything that needs to be done to give those who are wanting him for the right reason a time to come out, a chance to come out. Okay. So um, so what happened? Mike Winger put out a uh six plus hour expose on this guy named Sean Bowles, who's been a a high-profile prophetic voice um for these ministries. And Mike essentially blew the lid off of everything where this guy's been using Facebook posts and data mining in order to garner information that he can use from the pulpit as if he's speaking prophetically from the voice of the Lord with revelation, um, which is terrible. Uh, he's also been exposed for some sexual misconduct, and uh one is bad enough, and now two have happened. Um to their credit, Reading recently, the it was um, I believe it was Danny Silk, um, Bill Johnson, and uh uh Chris Valaton. They spoke publicly on it on the Sunday following the expose, in which they apologized. They said that they did not uh desire anybody to be hurt, and and then they actually said that they handled it wrong. Um, you know, I'm gonna suspend judgment presently. I'm I'm gonna pick to believe what they say until they give me a reason to believe something else, because that's how I would like to be treated if I messed up and I repented. So uh so it's brought up this conversation about prophecy and the gifts of the spirit and false prophets versus real prophets and office of the prophet versus the gift of prophecy and all this stuff. And so kind of just wanted to unpack this. I think that it's um beneficial for the body. And if we're I think we're live streaming right now, so if anybody has um any questions, go ahead and throw them up on the uh the live chat. And uh uh Terrence, you you got any opening thoughts?

SPEAKER_04 5:10

No, man, I I do appreciate you telling you saying um you know God is a God who's giving chances for repentance. I think that's important to state. Um, we are definitely seeing some disconcerting things. Um, and with that kind of sort of thing, people could become uh disillusioned and disheartened. And I think it's important to rem to remind people like, yes, God is severe with regards to his judgment, but there's always repentance. So as he says in the book of uh Revelations, excuse me, revelation, um, repent. If you're doing something that you're not supposed to be doing, seek to glorify God in repentance for sure.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Amen. Zayn, any thoughts? Yeah, uh, you know, just being still a pretty semi-new Christian, um like there are sins that non-believers commit. Um, you know, and it's almost instant that there is like, you know, forgiveness, you know, we just we just want to we want to do what Jesus would have would have done and would do. Um with a Christian, though, it's like especially when it's like sort of like um almost like a blasphemy against you know prophecy itself or blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, too. It just hits differently, you know, it's a little bit harder to kind of stomach. Um but it you know, since there is repentance, we have to be, you know, as graceful as we can be, you know. Um and so uh yeah, those are my thoughts.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

Yeah, I think uh I think it's really, really important that um that we keep we keep in the forefront that God is God wants to save everyone who can be saved. And and so if the person's heart is for real, what's up, Mark? If a person's heart is for real, um I I I think they get a whole lot more chances than somebody who's just playing games with God, even if it's a more severe sin. So, like for me, in in in my life, I was on the verge of doing a home invasion, and if I would have, I probably would have killed the guy. And it wasn't up until that point that that the Lord like really just spoke and yanked me out of it. But I know other people that it's like you can't even smoke weed again, or you're done. So why why is it a a what seems to be a lesser standard for that person and a and a greater standard of grace for me? And and I think it all has to do with the heart posture. And so somebody who's who's just thumbing their nose at God, a little thing is they're done. And somebody who's just wrestling through sin and working through sanctification, God is continually um reaching for them. Right, 100%. You know, the the the righteous man stumbles seven times, but he gets back up, the wicked stumble in the day of calamity and they are destroyed. Well, what's the difference between the righteous and the wicked in that passage? It's not that one stumbles and one doesn't, it's that one gets back up and one doesn't.

SPEAKER_04 7:59

Yeah, and you said it before too, but I think it's bears uh repeating it's the heart posture, right? Like God is gives grace to the humble. If the sinner is humble and actually wanting to find mercy with Christ, he is all the more wanting to save. So I think it's uh important to state that as well. That this is this lends to God's love and mercy, right? He, as you always say, Jess, he if you if you're wanting to be saved, there's nothing he wouldn't do in order to make that occur. And so at the end of the day, in the final analysis, it's not that God is unwilling to save somebody, they're just unwilling to meet God where he wants them to be to be to be found, namely in uh posture of humility. So amen.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

I agree. Yeah, I'm very very reformed position. Everybody who can be saved will be saved. Which I love. So I I I hold that one.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

You helped me shape that though. Although I'm I'm I'm thinking you're more you're you're moling, you're you're falling onto molenism, perhaps. I'm not sure, but I think you're right.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Molinism, does that have to do with with like burritos and and sauce or something?

SPEAKER_04 8:58

Or m but we'll talk about that offline on another show, another time, but at the yeah, yeah, that's yeah.

Scripture’s Authority Over Prophetic Words

SPEAKER_03 9:04

That's funny. That's funny. All right, so I guess probably the the first place to start is whether or not uh biblically the gifts of the spirit still are operative or not. And I think that the that for the most part, except for folks who are stuck in these staunch camps, that most believers are like, yes, they're they're they exist. How they operate and how available they are is the question for most people. Probably the biggest problem that those on the opposite side have with what they what's called the gift of prophecy is they're concerned that a prophetic utterance is on par with scripture. And the problem is is is it's not. It it never has been. There are tons of prophets in the old testament who prophesied all kinds, and there was never a book written from them. So it's still prophecy and it's not scripture. There is some prophecy that is scripture, and we have it. We we have what God wants us to have. We we have what He desired to uh to keep and and to preserve for us. So how then do you reconcile prophecy and scripture? Scripture has three um three qualities that it maintains, and it is inspired, inerrant, and infallible. Inspired meaning it's it's from God, inerrant meaning that there are no errors in it, and infallible meaning not only does it have no errors, it is incapable of error consistently within itself. Anyone who wants to look it up, you can look up the uh Chicago statement on inerrancy. R. C. Sproul was a part of that. Um, you know, great great statement on inerrancy, why it is that we believe the Bible. And the Bible is the only revelation from God, apart from Jesus Christ Himself, that maintains those three qualities. If you have a prophetic word from somebody, it can be inspired. If it's really God, it is inspired, it can be inerrant, meaning that it doesn't have error in it. It's factual, it's true, there's no errors in it, but it's always it will never be infallible. Why? Because in 1 Corinthians chapter 13, Paul says that we know in part and we prophesy in part. So even the gift of prophecy is like seeing in a mirror darkly. It may not be an error, but it is always potentially fallible. Why? Because it's coming through a human vessel. Come on, yeah, yeah, like we we have the ability to receive something from God and then do the wrong thing with it. We have the ability to receive correct information from God and then apply it wrong. Any thoughts presently before we go to a passage?

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Before we go to a passage, I want you to give uh um, if you can, like uh a scriptural uh evidence for that claim. I think you're right, and I think we talked about this before, but I think for the people listening, it might be helpful to present um uh a passage of some sort that gives indication to what you're saying rather than just make it be a claim.

Acts 21: True Revelation, Wrong Application

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Yeah, that so that that's what we're gonna do. Um you you're talking about where somebody can get right data and then do the wrong thing with it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I want I want people to see that. Yeah, so uh very good book written by um I don't see it on my shelf. Wayne Grudom. It's called uh New Testament Prophecy, and he's a reformed guy, and he's also a charismatic guy. I don't have it on my shelf, but uh I can't find it. Um and and he expose he it's a really good read. So if you're you're interested, Wayne Grudum uh on prophecy, and this is one of the passages that he points out. Um this is uh Acts chapter 21. So what's the context? Paul is on his way to Jerusalem, and he already knows that he's going to be imprisoned. He already knows this. He knows that when he gets there, that he's God has already told him you're gonna go before kings and and such on my behalf, and and he's already told him that bondage awaits him. And so Acts chapter uh 21, he's he's on his way to Jerusalem. Um, we'll read the context here. When we had parted from them and had set sail, we ran straight a straight course to Kos and the next day to Rhodes, and from there to Patara. So so in one verse, there there's several days of travel on a ship from city to city to city. Okay, and having found a ship crossing over to Phoenicia, we set we went aboard and set sail. When we came inside of Cyprus, leaving it on the left, we kept sailing to Syria and landed in Tyr. Okay, so this is the the the northeastern portion of the Mediterranean Ocean, um, above Jerusalem and such so you know outside of modern day Turkey. For there the ship was to unload its cargo. Verse 4. After looking up the disciples, they're in Tyr. We stayed there seven days, and they kept telling Paul through the spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem. Okay. On its face, it sounds like Luke knows what he's writing. It is through the spirit, it's the definite article. So he he's telling you they are they are having real revelations from the spirit, the Holy Spirit, right? But they are telling Paul, do not go to Jerusalem. Verse 5. When our days there were ended, so after the seven days, and then and during the seven days, they're telling Paul, Don't go, don't go, don't go. We left and started our journey, and while they all, with wives and children, escorted us out of the city, after kneeling on the beach and praying, we said farewell to one another. We went on board a ship and then returned home again. When we had finished the voyage from Tyr, we arrived at Ptolemaeus, and after greeting the brethren, we stayed there with them for a day. On the next day we came to Caesarea and entering the house of Philip the Evangelist, who was one of the seven, we stayed with him. This man had four virgin daughters who were prophetesses. Verse 10. As we were staying there for some days, a prophet named Agabas came down from Judea. Okay, so first distinction. The first group are people telling him things by the Spirit. He does not call them prophets. Agabus is the one he identifies with the title prophet. Agabus comes down from Judea and coming to us, he took Paul's belt on his own feet and hands and said, This is what the Holy Spirit says. And this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles. Verse 12. When we heard this, we, as well as local residents, began begging him, Paul, don't go to Jerusalem. Then Paul answered, What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am not ready. I am ready not only to be bound, but even to die at Jerusalem for the name of Jesus. And since he would not be persuaded, we fell silent, remarking, The will of the Lord be done. Well be done, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:45

So any thoughts before we break this down, Terrence? No, I thought I love that. I think that was so clear. To be fair, you know, this was not my position some months ago until I first heard this statement. So I'm excited to get into this.

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Zayn, any thoughts? I think Zayn's frozen. Zayn, are you frozen? Oh, it looks like he's back. Okay. You good? Okay. All right. So what's happening here? Notice the responses of the people. They receive a real revelation from God. Paul is going to be imprisoned when he goes to Jerusalem. But then they do the wrong thing with it in their flesh. Paul, don't go to Jerusalem. We love you. We don't want to see you go to jail. Yet Paul knows what the will of the Lord is already. Do we think Paul would have would have rebelled against God and not done what he said? No. So if those first revelations from the spirit were not the person's take on the data that they got, Paul would have absolutely obeyed God. But what we see implicit in the earlier verses, now we see explicit in the later verses, where his friends do the same thing with the information that the other guys did. They get a real piece of data from God. This dude's going to jail, binds his hands with the belt, and then what do they do? They get don't go. They get in their natural, they get in their natural person. No, Paul, don't go. Now, what did they say when Paul said stop weeping records? God's will be done. Yeah. Paul knew what God's will was. Okay, so what does that mean? It means that we have the ability to get a real piece of information from God and then filter it through our flesh. And this is why First Corinthians 13 says, We know on part, we prophesy on part, and even prophecy is seen as in a mirror dimly. And and so the idea is for those of you who listening, if you've ever seen a shower door that's obscure, they have obscure glass that you can't see through. So you can kind of see the outline of the body, but you can't see the details of the body. That's a lot of what like prophecy can be like, where there's these impressions and and sometimes it's very, very clear, and other times it's not clear at all. It's it's a sometimes it's a feeling and it it's prophetic in the sense that it's from the Lord, even if it's not words. Other times he gives you a word or two, and then along with the word, he unpacks. It's like a it's like a uh information unpacking in a moment. This happens to me a lot. We have the ability to get it wrong, and we have the ability to filter it. Here's one of the more most common ones somebody receives a genuine piece of information from God, like like 1 Corinthians 14 says, somebody receives a revelation who's seated, so they get up and they they're like, All right, I have something from the Lord I'd like to share. They share the peace that is from God, and then they start to teach on it. So parse those. One can be the Lord, and the other one can be the person. And I see this a lot with people who get prophetic words where you you you have to test these things. Paul says it in Thessalonians. Matter of fact, I'm spirits. Yep, I'm I'm gonna read that one directly. First Thessalonians 5 20. It says, Do not quench the spirit, do not despise prophetic utterances. Verse 21, but examine or judge or test all things carefully, hold fast to that which is good. Okay. So this statement presumes that in the prophetic utterance there is at least part of it that can be good and part of it that can be bad. That's why you have to test it. And the part that is bad, you throw away, and the part that is good you lay hold of. Thoughts. Terrence, you got thoughts?

Test Everything: Criteria And Caution

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah, I thought just uh Zayn was gonna say something. No, I I think this is important. Sorry, what was that? Whoever. Yeah, no, I got it. And then Zayn, if you're if you have something to say, certainly join in. Um, no, I love the breakdown, bro. Props to you. I think uh this is crucial to be to see. Um, again, for me, this is uh paramount because this was not my position. Being strictly reformed, you know, you might say I'm a staunch Calvinist, and I'll adapt the uh the phrase, but uh this in this particular issue I didn't see it, primarily because I didn't know verses like this. And I think with this kind of verse, you see exactly what you're saying. Namely, that you can get a prophecy, and we know that this prophecy was given by the Lord because the text says it three times, I believe. The Holy Spirit says, um, Paul himself acknowledges that that reality by when he says, you know, the Lord dot the Lord's will be done. So we can see, as you said, prophecy could be given, but because of our skewed uh reality, because of our nature, because of our will not always in line with God's wants, we we we we we kind of miss the mark with regards to applying the prophecy. And I think that's so apropos and that's so necessary to be seen in this particular conversation because there are people who will staunchly say, no, these type of things don't exist. So it's important to establish, I think, this sort of groundwork before we move forward. So I think this is crucial.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Amen. Zayn? Yeah, it just makes me like um think about when I was in the new region. All right.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

I see your lips moving, but I don't hear any words coming out. I think he's having keep keep going.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

I think he's having some uh issues again.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

Yeah, no worries. Just make sure we edit that when we put it out. Um, so uh I I want to stress again for those who are listening, we do not hold that prophecy is equal to scripture. Okay, so the the the prophetic word is meant to confirm things, and and yes, it can be directive and it can even be prescriptive, but it's not going to contradict what God has already revealed. And he's given this thus this thing called the scriptures, and Daniel chapter 10. I think we talked about this on another podcast, but um very interesting. I hadn't seen it until last year. I was you know reading through Daniel again, and Daniel chapter 10, the angel, we presume it's Gabriel, he comes, I think it's 10, he comes to give Daniel an interpretation of the dream that he had. Because Daniel was straight freaked out by what he saw. And so he fasts for 21 days, and it's where we where we you know get this clear idea of territorial spirits, which is a thing, where there's the prince of Persia and the Prince of Greece. And they're obviously supernatural because they're resisting the angel from heaven, which we believe is Gabriel. Um, so so it, you know, the same passage, and he says this to Daniel. He said, 'I came to tell you what's written in the truth in heaven.' And there's this very clear idea that heaven has books. We see in Revelation, very clear, there there is a book of each of our lives that includes our deeds. You see in Malachi, God tells an angel, go and get a scroll and write down a scroll of remembrance with the names of those who are grieved because of the uh evil that's in their culture. So so heaven's got documents, all kinds of them. And you know, part of the gospel, the the gospel itself in uh uh 2 Corinthians chapter 2 says that the records of our debt that were hostile to us are nailed to the cross. So what are those are heavenly documents? Like it's not a metaphor, those are the things by which the devil would accuse us standing in the courtroom in heaven. So, so so what does that mean? We there are heavenly documents, and the Bible is the only book on the face of the planet that bears that same quality, even prophecy itself does not bear that same quality of inspired, inerrant, and infallible. Okay. We also don't believe that um that prophecy means that you should write it down and treat it as scripture. We we don't believe that either. Prophecy is not to be held in the same way that scripture is held, okay? Uh so I think that's good for preliminary stuff, huh?

SPEAKER_04 23:41

Yeah. I just want to say this on the last point you made, though. I think I guess I'm fighting for balance here, right? Because um even though I 100% agree with what you're saying, I don't want the hearers to assume then what you already stated. And I want to just reinforce this idea. Just because we don't put uh prophecy on par with scripture, we're not arguing for not testing the spirit. Because prophecy is a legitimate, right? Prophecy is a legitimate legitimate thing, and we want to encourage people to simply do what the scripture says, namely test the spirit. Don't despise it. I know for me in the past that's what I would have done. Um, because unfortunately, what we see is a mischaracter or a misuse of these gifts, and because of a misuse of it, we kind of uh infer then everybody's a fake prophet or something like this. And I'm arguing for, and I'm I'm trying to encourage you, the listener okay, stay stay on guard, stay vigilant, but test the spirit, don't despise it. And if you just if you test it and find that this is a a word that's nonsensical, by all means disregard it. But don't despise it right off the bat without testing it, is what I'm arguing for.

False Prophets, Balaam, And Matthew 7

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Here's part of the problem: the nature of the interface of the gifts of the Holy Spirit with the practitioner. And here's one of the the problems with some of the primary arguments of the cessationists is is that they they say things like, uh, well, if if you're he if you have the gift of healing, go and clear out a hospital. Well, the problem is, is that's not the way the gifts ever worked. You read 1 Corinthians chapter 12, and it says that they are given as the spirit wills. So these manifestations, these supernatural manifestations, are given not according to the will of the practitioner, but the will of the spirit. Now, it does require cooperation. It's not like the Holy Spirit just takes somebody over and puppeteers them. That's not the way that it works. There is a a will on his side and a will on my side, because you can you can pick not to do something and miss what he's trying to do. I've done that before. Well, what that means is that you if it's according to the will of the Lord, I must engage him and he must engage me. And it doesn't, it doesn't just happen willy-nilly. Okay. Um, I forgot where I was going with that, with the distraction. Oh, testing. Subjective nature of it. Because it requires human interaction, that means that that there is a subjective element to it, and so I must be ever vigilant to make sure that I'm connected with God, otherwise, a false spirit can come and deceive me. And next thing you know, now you have a false prophecy. Or and and it's probably worth mentioning what's the difference between false prophets, real prophets, and office of a prophet, prophecy, and such. So let let's let's talk about that real quick. Okay. What is the false prophet? A couple of different categories. One, false prophet is someone who says that they are and they're not. That's a liar. A false prophet is any so-called prophet office that doesn't operate at 100% accuracy. Note there's a difference between the office of a prophet and the gift of prophecy. Not everybody who prophesies is a prophet. That's not the same thing. We we tend to think uh because this person moves in the gift of prophecy that they're a prophet. Nope, that's not true. That's not true at all. Any so-called prophet that doesn't operate at 100% accuracy, here's another one, false prophet. They may have 100% accuracy, but internally, morally, they're false. This is the Matthew chapter 7. Inwardly, they are ravenous wolves, outwardly they wear the clothing of sheep. Here's your quintessential example Balaam. Yep, yep. Balaam gets right data and ready, he gets it from Yahweh. Yep, yep. But inside, he's a ravenous wolf. How do we know this? Because he gets paid from the king. The king's like, look, I want you to curse them. He goes up, he says, Okay, well, this is Yahweh's people. I can only say what Yahweh says. I cannot do anything else concerning his people, uh, concerning uh blessing or curses unless he says so. So he goes up, he says, Can't curse him, gotta bless him. Happens several times. The king gets mad at him, dude. I I brought you out here to do this. He's like, I told you, I can't, I cannot say over them anything other than what Yahweh tells me to say. But then he comes off the last one and he says, Okay, but I'll tell you how to get them compromised. You get your daughters and go and mix with their people, and then you get them to eat at your sacrificial feedings and meals that you have that worship the Nephilim, which is the whole Canaanitic stuff. Okay, we got a question. Uh, I don't know how to show this publicly, and there we go. Okay, can you explain how there are those using the gifts of the spirit in Matthew 7 and yet God didn't know them? Absolutely perfect. We're the same zone.

SPEAKER_04 28:38

Whose question is that?

SPEAKER_03 28:39

That's Mark's.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

Oh, shout out to Mark. That's my brother, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Yeah, I think we we uh had a conversation, the three of us a long time ago. Yeah, good memory. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. So, what does the Matthew 7 prophecy or the Matthew 7 passage say? Let's look at that. So he starts with um a tree and its fruit. So remember, in in the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5, 6 and 7, Jesus is concerned with the internal person. He is concerned with who you are on the inside. And so he moves from the externals to the internal man regularly throughout the Sermon on the Mount. He's concerned about the ethics of the kingdom of God. And what was happening was the Pharisees were like, look, as long as I got it on the outside, I'm good. And he says, Look, it it's not enough that you don't just commit adultery, you can't even look at a woman that way. It's not enough that you you just don't murder someone, you can't even be angry with your brother. And so regularly, Jesus is moving from the externals to the internals. That that's the entire ethics of the kingdom of God, who you are, not just on the outside, but who you are on the inside. How does he close the passage? He starts with there. This is Matthew 7, verse 24. Therefore, this is the capstone. Everyone who hears these words of mine and acts on them may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. So, what's his concern? That you hear it, it assimilates inside of you and results in action. Hear the words of mine and obey and do them. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house, and yet it did not fall. Why? Because it had been founded on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, the floods came, the winds blew, slammed against that house, and it fell, and great was its fall. Okay. That is immediately after the false prophet statement. So what's the math? Jesus is concerned with these false prophets. It's not a matter of what they say or even what they do, it's a matter of who they are on the inside. What does he say? Tree and his root. Beware of false prophets. Back to verse 15, chapter 7, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but what? Inwardly they're ravenous wolves. So they look like something on the outside, but actually there's something different on the inside. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree that bears good fruit, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor a bad produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then you will know them by their fruits. Now here's here's the kicker. What does he mean by fruits? He's going to tell us it's not works. He's going to tell us it's the internal person that results on the fruit on the outside. So here's his case study. You will know them bear their fruits. Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? And your name casts out demons, your name perform many miracles, and then I will declare to them, I never knew you. Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness. What is lawlessness? It is a matter of the internal person. Then immediately, therefore, whoever hears these words of mine and acts on them may be compared to a wise man. So what's the problem with these prophets? The problem with these false prophets is not the manifestation of what God is is or is not doing. Because God can use bad people to do good things all the time.

SPEAKER_04 32:12

That's all he uses is bad people.

Deuteronomy 13 And End-Time Deception

SPEAKER_03 32:14

That's right. It's never to the person's credit. What is to the person's credit? Character. Who you are on the inside. And these these guys, though they're operating on some sort of a uh a supernatural whatever, their internal person is wrong. So I personally know there's some really bad heretics out there, and I got friends that were healed in their crusades. And I will full-blown call these guys heretics. Like, if I if I said the name, you'd be like, Yep. I I don't think that because somebody's at a Binian crusade, Jesus is gonna be like, sorry, um, you know, come back later when you're at a Paul Washer sermon, and then I'll answer you. I don't think that's the way God works. That's good. I think he's I think Jesus is in concern about the heart and obviously works with people in spite of themselves regularly. And so in this instance, um, I believe that what's happening is that these are people who are moving in the gifts of the spirit and are are being used by God to do what it is that God wants to do, which by the way, if those gifts are for his glory, then it's not surprising that they're moving genuinely in them because the gifts aren't about the person at all, anyway. Right. Yeah. They're gifts or not, yeah. No, the gifts are never a stamp of approval of character on the person. Like the Corinthian church was messed up badly. Yeah, like badly. And Paul says in the beginning, none of you you don't lack any gift, and you're gonna continue to have them until he comes back. So so the gifts are never a stamp of approval on character. And that's what Jesus, I believe, is addressing right here. He's he's like, who are you inside? Inwardly, you are a ravenous wolf. Outwardly you act like this, but inwardly you're not. I think the Balaam thing is is uh is super eye-opening for me. Um thought.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

You think the Balaam thing alongside yeah, alongside Balaam thing, I have Jesus' own um condemnation of these kinds of people who prophesy, right? He's they they say to him, Lord, Lord, didn't I prophesy? And he doesn't debunk that idea. He just tells him what you what you're saying, namely, like I never knew you. You you've never had any parts with me, any any kind of real intimacy, any kind of real relationship. Alongside that, there's the passage in uh Deuteronomy where God says, If a dreamer or prophet comes around you and he gives you a prophet or dream uh a prophecy andor a dream that actually does occur, but at the end of the dream or prophecy, he says to you, Come, let us go follow other gods you whom you've never known and whom your uh fathers never known. The Lord is testing you. Now see what's happening there. A real prophecy andor a real dream is occurring. This is not some kind of made-up thing uh whereby somebody is trying to fool you vis-a-vis like a Benny Hinn. This is a real prophecy and a real dream. And yet, God uses that wicked prophet with a real dream and a real prophecy to test you, to see if your heart is for him.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

Yeah, it's funny as I have Deuteronomy 13 uh pulled up right now on my nice.

SPEAKER_04 34:59

We're trucking, we're trucking.

SPEAKER_03 35:00

Yeah, so let's read it. If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and he gives you a sign or a wonder, okay, so this isn't just a prophecy and a dream, it is a prophecy and dream backed with some sort of demonstration, which which is huge. Like that this isn't that like Revelation 13 is clear. False lying signs and wonders are coming. Second Thessalonians 4, lying or two, lying signs and wonders are coming. If they arise and give you a sign or wonder, and then the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which they spoke, then they say, Let us go after other gods whom you have not known, and let us serve them. Then you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Lord your God is testing you.

SPEAKER_05 35:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

Holy smokes, to find out if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Yeah, that's wow. But what is the parallel? It is Second Thessalonians chapter 2, which he says what he says, that's right, he is he is sending lying signs and wonders to what? To those with uh sec uh second Thessalonians 2 8. Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will slay with the breath of his mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of his coming. That is, the one who's who's coming, the lawless one, is in accord with the activity of Satan with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish. Why? Because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

SPEAKER_04 36:27

As to be saved, yep.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

What did the Deuteronomy 13 passage say?

SPEAKER_04 36:30

Same thing. Exactly. Yeah, where's your heart? Yeah, where's your heart? Who's who has your allegiance? That's right.

SPEAKER_03 36:35

Back to the idolatry uh correct podcast.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

For this reason, because they res they refuse to receive a love of truth, God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that all may be judged who what did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. So, what's happening? God is intentionally sending something that will reveal you to you.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

Well said.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Well said, He is showing the house to the house.

SPEAKER_04 37:05

Yeah, yeah. So on that day, there'll be no Lord. I did I loved you. I wanted to be a Christian, I wanted to be saved. No, here's you. I've tested you so many times, I've shown you the truth, and you love the lie. Yep. So yeah. Yep.

Office Of Prophet Vs Gift Of Prophecy

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Okay, Balaam, false prophet, wolf in sheep's clothing. We talked about that. Here's the crazier part, okay? So here's what what Balaam does it says that in in the Psalms, God judged them not simply because they they went with the the daughters that Balaam counseled the king to have them compromise with, but that they ate and drank with them. And the the clear understanding is that in their eating and drinking, they were actually partaking in the sacrifices to the Canaanitic gods. So it wasn't just a compromise of relationship humanly, it was a violation of covenant with demonic and fallen angelic spirits, and God absolutely judged them for it. Yep. Absolutely. Okay, let's talk about the difference between um the office of a prophet and the gift of prophecy. One of the primary things about the office of a prophet is this is that the the office is it's kind of a misnomer. We we call them the office of the prophet. We use that language because it kind of helps uh helps us to distinguish between the the gift of prophecy and then this this person called a prophet. Prophet, yeah. Right, because they're different. Um, the first thing is that in in uh Ephesians chapter four, in Jesus' ascension, we'll go to verse eight, therefore it says, When he ascended on high, he led captive a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men. So it's these gifts that we're going to talk about. What are these gifts that he gave to men? He gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelists, some as pastors, some as teachers. And and you know, talk a conversation about whether these offices still exist or operate is is uh is a secondary issue presently. Okay. The man is the gift, not prophecy through the person. These people are the gifts. The pastor himself is the gift, the teacher himself is the gift, the evangelist himself is the gift. And so the idea here is not that God gave an office, and here's a bunch of check boxes that mean that you're this. No, the person themselves is the thing, they are the gift. Yeah, and so in my understanding, that would mean that every single one of these is unique. Now, there may be things that cross over, like for instance, the apostle Apostelo is the one who sent. You know, Paul talks about the the signs of a true apostle were done through him, so somebody who's you know claiming to be apostle and the supernatural, the real supernatural is not flowing through them, obviously it's not. The the book of Revelation says to one of the churches, he gives them accolades that you have tested those who call themselves apostles and found them to be false. So, so you know, uh there obviously is some qualifying factors, but by and large, each person is unique. And so, with the office of a prophet, here's the primary thing to my understanding the man is the message. So when you see the prophets in the old testament operating, it is their life that is speaking, it is their actions that is speaking, not just their words. Absolutely. So what happens? Ezekiel, your wife's gonna die, and you can't even cry about it. Hosea, you go and take a woman of harlotry and have kids of harlotry. Why? Because this is what my people do to me all the time, and I take them back. Yeah, so the man himself is the message, he doesn't just have the words of God. Demonstrates it. That's absolutely right. There is something in his life and what's happening that prophesies to the people that he is engaged with that show this is what's happening. Think of Ezekiel, you know, Ezekiel's gotta cut a hole in the wall and take his his stuff out with him because he's you know, he's he's telling them what what it's gonna look like when they try to escape from the king of Babylon. Okay, thoughts?

SPEAKER_04 41:14

Yeah, absolutely. My favorite passage to look at, that's what what you're trying to convey here, is uh Corinthians, actually. First Corinthians in particular. Paul's point is in context of what we're talking about. So in context of a group of people who is experiencing supernatural gifts, prophecy, etc., etc., he says, I'll teach you a more excellent way. This is first chapter, this is first Corinthians 12, and then he gets into chapter 13 the more excellent way, love. And so the demonstration, I think it's important to bit to say this again the demonstration of, or rather, the the gift in and of itself is the person who exudes gifts. But the reason why the person is the distincting factor is because there are like what like we just uh uh said, people who who don't who do have gifts but are not necessarily godly. And so what Paul's trying to convey here is essentially what Jesus teaches us to be be this kind of person uh that is demonstrating love in all of the factors that Paul is gonna uh iterate in in chapter 13, namely patience and love, not not not being um overbearing with regards to sin, but loving what's truthful, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, this kind of person not only demonstrates um, you know, the gifts vis-a-vis the supernatural signs, but is the kind of person that that identically looks like Jesus Christ and that you can you you, as the person who's watching, can say, Well, if I'm comparing this prophet with this prophet, I think this prophet is true because his character is otherworldly, namely godly. And so this was what Paul is trying to convey, this is what Jesus is trying to convey, this is what the Bible in general is trying to convey to people who are followers of God, be the gift by being like Christ. And that's so crucial to our walk. Um, the more I grow in faith, in fact, the more I see it more clearly. When I'm reading Paul's letters, for example, when he's writing to Timothy, to Titus, whomever he's writing to, whether he's writing to just churches without names or specifically writing to a person, is always that. He says things like, look at my life, follow me as I follow Christ. You see my way of life, my patience and tribulations, my prayerfulness, the way I respond to people who persecute me by blessing them and not cursing them, not re not retaliating. He keeps in reinforcing this sort of thing, calling it the more excellent way because it's loving, as the main thing. And if, and then he says it like this. I'll I'll I'll close my little spiel with this if I have all knowledge so as to know all prophecy and know all mysteries and yet have love, not have love, I'm absolutely nothing. That's the message, that's what we're trying to convey here. So, so so be this kind of person, even if you don't have these gifts, you have the main thing, the more excellent way, which again is love. Be that.

Edification, Rebuke, And Remodeling

SPEAKER_03 43:41

Amen. And and I think I would qualify that with remember that Paul is talking to a bunch of people who are genuinely seeing genuine manifestations in their midst, but they're not operating according to love. Right, right. And so there's a difference between the person and the manifestation of the gift and concerning the the author. Of a prophet, uh the the person who operates in the office of a prophet should be always operating according to that more excellent, which is the distinguishing factor between prophecy where you can operate in this way, and then the office of a prophet itself, which is where the person is is is operating that. The second thing that uh to my understanding that the office of a prophet does is they are they uniquely set up and tear down things. And so, you know, there when when you read about the gift of prophecy in 1 Corinthians 14, okay, which is which is concerned with the the public usage of prophecy as more edifying than uninterpreted tongues. That is the case study that or the the um the illustration that Paul is using in order to talk about what should happen in a public church service concerning edification and the gifts of the spirit, because they they weren't seeking for each other's edification. That's different when the office of a prophet comes in. I I've heard a lot of people say, Oh, that's that's not true prophecy because it doesn't edify. Dude, have you read the old testament? Exactly. Like real prophets that are like stings for real, you're dirty, and I'm gonna pop your skirts so that the whole earth can see your uncleanness, guys. That that is the Lord saying, I'm gonna show off your private parts that are funky so that the whole earth says these guys are bad.

SPEAKER_04 45:29

I don't know what to tell you. To make your point, though, who's the prophet? I think it was Jeremiah, right? Who who there was a guy who said, I don't want you know, I want to hear a prophecy, but not from him because he always prophesies bad. So then Jeremiah committee. Yes, my kind, yes. So he tells him, you know, what he wants to hear, and then he says, Swear by your God this is the truth. So he tells him the truth, like, okay, it's gonna get bad for you, bro. So again, to the point, a real prophet, it's not always sunshines and rainbows, guys. It's it's the truth, and the truth is often hard. When God says a prophecy, more times than not, it's a it's a hard word, and followed by repent, of course, because he cares about you. But it's typically, by and large, a tough, hard word is not a good thing. It's not, oh, I see you and you're so great, uh, and I'm gonna bless you. It's I'm holy, you're messing up, and you repent before that gets problematic for you, type of thing.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

Yeah, and the right way to to view that is that edification, the word edify means to build up. Okay. But any of you guys who are instructioned, you construction, you know that there are times where you got to remodel. And in order to remodel, you got to tear some stuff down in order to build the right stuff in its place. And so God's point in rebuking them was not to berate them, not to demean them. He wanted them to come back to him. That's what he wanted. Remember that God's judgment always serves his mercy, and so even when there's judgment from the Lord, his desire is not to keep you away from him, his desire is to get the stuff out of you so that you can come to him. He wants to join with you. Yeah. So if we pick, when his judgment comes and he's like, I don't like that, get rid of it, and we go, Well, you don't like that, and we run the other way. That's my fault. Absolutely. That's not his fault. Because I could get rid of it and be like, Jesus, you're you're worth everything to me. So I'm gonna get, I am gonna get rid of this thing because I want you, and then move nearer to him. That's the point. So he even with the rebuke, like you you read Hosea, and he and he's got some pretty stiff words for them, and yet there's these glimmers of places where he's like, I'm going to bring you back to me. Yeah, and and I will marry you to me in faithfulness.

SPEAKER_04 47:34

In fact, that's the decisive factor uh or voice rather between God and the devil. The devil will also say hard words and rebuke you, and the Lord himself will rebuke you harshly sometimes. But the Lord always follows a rebuke by return to me, I love you, repent, repent. And he gives you that opportunity to not stay in the depression or despair, but he gives you hope, knowing that you could come back and be forgiven. Whereas the devil will leave you in despair and tell you all kinds of real and true things about yourself and just leave you there without hope. So listen for that voice.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

Right. One is condemnation, the other one is redemptive. 100%. Okay, we talked about uh Acts 21 in the partiality of of uh prophecy. Um let's see, we're talking about false prophets. Um, oh, there is such a thing as demonic revelation, guys. There is absolutely false prophets who are prophesying real things, but because it's from a demonic spirit, it's false. Remember, biblically, false doesn't mean that it's not data accurate, false means it's not of the truth. Yeah, so right. So, so like with you know, we we talked long about the the alien phenomenon and things that are coming on the planet and the the the weird manifestations that are starting. And they're real, these things are really happening, but they're not truth, and so they're false. Even if it's a real experience, a true experience, it does not lead you to truth, and truth is a person, not a proposition. Oh sorry, and his name is Jesus. Okay, so there is demonic revelation. This demonic revelation is not true foretelling. So in prophecy, you've got two different two different things that are happening primarily: forthelling and foretelling. Four tell is the according to Isaiah, is the unique thing that God does. He's the only one who knows the future for real, he's the only one that brings things to the past. He says, Look, I I declared it to you from of old. I am, he he uniquely says, because I'm able to tell you what's going to happen before it happens, I am the one true God, 100%. So that's foretelling. It is real prophecy about real things that are happening coming in the future. Um, and then there's forth telling. And forth telling is not foretelling, but bringing forth the mind of the Lord. And it can be words, it can even be um feelings. Like I I uh was fishing with a guy not last week, weekend before, and uh he is just a rank center. Let's put it that way. This this dude is, and me and my son were on the boat with them. Just just I mean, you know, rank sinners who are absolutely hilarious, like one of those. Like I'm laughing, and I'm like, Jesus, I should not be laughing at this guy. Please forgive me. That's and so so that so we're fishing with this guy, he's the guide, and uh, and I was just immediately aware of how much God liked this guy, and I'm like, holy smokes! I looked back at him and I was like, He he likes you, and and I was aware of God's affection for him, and so I'm I'm I'm believing he's gonna get saved. Um, you know, God has affection for all of us, he wants all of us to be saved, but uh, you know, Peter says, Oh, even though everyone won't be saved, there's a desire portion of him, and so but but I was aware of this affection. So I I'm uh I'm gonna be praying to get saved, but you should, you should.

SPEAKER_04 50:53

That's cool.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

Um, so so fourth telling is is telling what's happening in the mind of God or or you know, um 1 Corinthians 14, the secret of the man's heart is laid bare, and then he falls on his face and declares, surely the living God is amongst you. That's in this place, yeah. Right. So there's this exposure of secret for information. Now, the devil can fake that stuff, it is not the real stuff. So, in like foretelling, what does the devil do? The devil tells you what's something that's gonna happen, and then he makes it happen. That's different than God telling you what's gonna happen because he knows what's gonna happen. Those are two different things. One is a a prophecy that is spoken and then fulfilled by the speaker because they're they're plotting, and the other one is a prophecy where God, who set all things in motion and knows all things before they're gonna happen, tells you this is what's coming for your life. Those are different. Yeah. Thoughts?

Demonic Revelation, Foretell Vs Forthtell

SPEAKER_04 51:55

No, I think you wrapped it up well there. I think it's an important distinction to make between fourth telling and foretelling. Although I do want to ask the question, though, because I I need clarity for myself. In regards to foretelling, where God declares the end from the beginning, is he because Isaiah, I believe, he says he does so because he's declaring the end. He he says he's watching over his word, correct me if I'm wrong, to make sure that these things are going to occur. So then in fourth telling, is he simply uh reactionary type of thing, or is he actively watching so as to make sure things are happening the way he intended for it to occur? Do you understand my question?

SPEAKER_03 52:29

Yeah, so I think I think fourth telling is what God, what God would say in the moment, which isn't necessarily having anything to do with the future at all. Like, for instance, um leading a Bible study in in Oakland, and I walk in, and uh there's this young girl, she's like 18 years old, has like a six-month-old baby or something like that, where it's it's me and a couple other Bible college students, and we're leading this Bible study. And I think I mentioned this before, and the Lord says she tried to smother her baby last night with a pillow. That's not foretelling. This is something that happened the night before. He's forth telling, he's giving me information or telling me something in the moment that doesn't have to do with the future. And so as I'm praying, I'm talking to her, and I'm like, listen, he's even gracious to forgive when you did this and she broke.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

And you better be right. I'm telling you, you better be right if you say something like that, bro.

SPEAKER_04 53:22

I'm telling you, and man, I gotta say, bro, I'm a little jealous. How do you get these gifts? I mean, I I read Spurgeon, a little bit of Spurgeon stuff, and uh, you know, he he had these sort of um not a lot, but but these instances, and I use Spurgeon because he's the Calvinist go-to guy, right? As I'm reformed myself, and he says things like you'll stop mid-sentence in a sermon and say to a certain person in the audience, the Lord told me this and that, and the person would say, How did you know? you know, and he's like, The Lord tell me.

SPEAKER_03 53:50

So I think I think actually there's a lot of reformed people out there who are reformed and charismatic. So you got Remnant Radio. Um shout out to Remnant Radio.

SPEAKER_04 53:57

Uh, and Grace movement, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:01

Yeah, they they are, but I think they're called something different. Uh um, John Piper. John Piper is John Piper for sure, yeah. And he even believes in baptism in the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_04 54:08

Lloyd Jones, who's my favorite teacher, Martin Lloyd Jones.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

Did I tell you that the the reformed publishing house for America won't publish some of his stuff because it's too charismatic?

SPEAKER_04 54:19

Wow. Yep. Oh here's a surprise for people who listen who might be knowing not knowing this. Paul Washer, because of his um upbringings in the Methodist movement and people like that, that he used to listen to when Lendon Ravenhill chose these guys, Paul Washer's like that too. He's reformed staunchly intellectually and in practice, but he does believe in the gifts and he's charismatic in that regard. He he has a phrase where he says, I will not allow people to steal my heritage. I love that, because the heritage of the Christian is supernatural.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

Agreed, 100%. Um, so uh so that it's a good question. How how do you begin to move in these things? And there's a couple. The the first, the the most important thing is being on mission, doing what it is that God wants you to do, because the governing thing over all of this is 1 Corinthians chapter 12. Matter of fact, I'm gonna read it here. And I I mentioned this misnomer with the um the cessationists and how they they interpret wrongly the way the gifts have always worked. And it's it's this he says, uh 12.4. Now there are a variety of gifts but the same spirit, a variety of ministries in the same Lord, a variety of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation for the common good. For to one is given a word of wisdom through the spirit, to another the word of knowledge according to the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another gifts with healings, by the one spirit to another, the effecting of miracles, to another prophecy, to another, distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of those tongues. Verse 11. But one and the same spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually, just as he wills. The manifestation of the gifts of the spirit have always been according to the will of the spirit, 100%. So this whole well, if you got the gift of healing, go into uh a hospital and clear them out, like that that's not the way it works. If God tells you to and that's what he wants to do, amen. Yeah, that that's the way that it works. Yeah, but if he doesn't tell you to, you don't just go presume. Yeah, don't presume, yeah. You don't just go and do it, like you know. Here's the math if you pray for somebody to get healed and they don't get healed, God wasn't healing them. Yeah, 100%. What it's not difficult. You miss God in that moment. Okay, well, you know, moving on. So um what what then is the primary thing in the manifestation of the of these gifts? First, what I believe is that these can be given to any person at any period of time, these are not um resident things. There is a sense in which some things are resident, but these are not. What does he say? Each one is given the manifestation for the common good, verse seven. So who can? Each one. Anybody, yeah. That's right. How? According to what he wants. So, what's the number one thing? This is what I teach our people willing and available. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 57:13

I'm I'm on mission, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, I'm where I'm supposed to be. I'm I'm I'm I am talking, all the component parts are there, yeah, and then I'm willing and available. God, whatever you want to do. I I'm open today. Show me. That's it.

How The Gifts Operate: As He Wills

SPEAKER_04 57:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think uh so I've been reading a lot of uh bios, man. Uh everybody from William Booth, who I just learned about last week, to I don't know, just a whole host of uh Christian heroes, man. Um some Calvinist, some Arminian, some this, some that funny people and all this. And they all would say the same thing, man. Um just make yourself available, be in the will of God, be wanting to have the spirit of Elijah, who says, uh, was it Elijah? Or um who said, you know, here I am, Lord, send me. Um Isaiah, excuse me. Isaiah, excuse me. And so, yeah, have that sort of mindset that's that was in him. That is, Lord, uh, I'm yours. I've been bought with a price, my life is your own, my life is no longer my own. How do you want to use me? And don't dict, don't dictate God to tell him, tell God you want to be used this in that way. God is God. Um, his will is for you to be used, but he may, this is the hard part here. He may want you to be used in a way that you might not want to be used, and that's the rub, right? He told Peter at one time, in uh insinuating how Peter was going to glorify him. He said, you know, time is coming when somebody's gonna take you by the hand, lead you into into a place you don't want to go. What's the uh implications there? Well, you don't want to go there. And of course, there's this caveat there in that verse that says, by this, he was uh dictating how Peter was going to glorify him, namely through crucifixion, right? And so what am I saying? God wants to use you, but he doesn't want to use you always your way. So be mindful of that, be humble, and and and if your heart is to be used by God in any way he himself choose, then you can expect these things. But if that's not the case, then don't expect it because you're still putting yourself ahead of God's will.

SPEAKER_03 59:00

Yep. And I I do think that there is a place where we we come to the realization that look, we take the scriptures, it's written. You know, the you know, 1 Corinthians 13 says that these things don't cease until until he comes back. When we when we see face to face what we know, even as we are fully known. And so that the face-to-face is is the Jewish idiom for personal relationship, personal contact, right? And so it's you know, the when when Jesus comes, all these things, these gifts that are called partial, they will be done away with. Why? Because that which they are meant to point to and point to the fullness of is now here. And yeah, and the like the intimacy from speaking in tongues or the the supernatural element of knowing knowing God's voice through prophecy or you know, whatever, the healing, because you know, we we've got uh resurrected bodies that aren't messed up messed up anymore, you know. That that when that comes, no need for it, we don't have any need for those things anymore. And praise Jesus because that means that he's the fullness thereof. All right, uh Mark, hey Mark, thanks for the uh thanks for the um um the shout-out here. Uh let's see, he's got another question. Nane, are you still available to throw that up there?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:08

What was the shout-out?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

What is the difference between someone knowing what's going to happen because of prophecy and someone who knows something is going to happen simply because they are wise and know the weather? So his shout-out was I I appreciate the podcast. You guys put a lot of thought into this, though. So thanks, bud. Yeah, thank you. Um, so the difference between um someone knowing what's going to happen because of prophecy and someone who knows something is going to happen simply because they are wise is is the source of the revelation. So one is sourced in human knowledge, and there's nothing wrong with that. You know, I'm you know, I'm I'm a fisherman, so I'm I'm looking at the weather pretty regularly, trying to figure out the flows on the river, trying to figure out the tides, you know, that kind of stuff. You know, I know the fish are gonna bite when the pressure's like this, and I know that the fish are gonna bite when the season is like that, and and but all of that is naturally derived information. Um prophecy in particular, so when when you look at the 1 Corinthians chapter 12, it says that the spirit is the one who gives it. So the source is the problem, and or the source is the difference. Now, the this is one of the things that the gift of discerning spirits is supposed to do. There's a lot of charismatic gobbledygook out there that says that discerning spirits is meant to be, you know, uh to tell you what kind of a demon it is. And there are kinds, uh, Jesus says this kind doesn't come out except by prayer. So there are kinds of spirits, there are named spirits, that kind of stuff. But that's not so much what the gift of discerning spirits is about. The gift of discerning spirits, according to 1 Corinthians 12, in my understanding, is to discern the source of a manifestation because we need to know, we need to judge. There are several different places in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 that Paul gives these standards. Okay, how do you know it's the Lord? Edification, how do you know it's the Lord? Self-control. That's actually one of the huge ones that that he puts out. How do you know it's the Lord? The judgment of the brethren. How do you know it's the Lord? The gift of discerning spirits. How do you so he he's got a number of tests that he puts forth in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 that we should use when when judging manifestations, um, discerning manifestations, and one of them is the gift of discerning spirits, where somebody can just be like, nope, that's demonic actually. And and it's not because of anything other than the revelation of the spirit just showed them that's exactly what's happened. Like we had a we had uh an issue with someone recently with some demonic manifestations, and they they started speaking in tongues, and it wasn't the Lord at all. And I, you know, we're we're having to you know go through, yeah. That dog don't hunt in this house, baby.

Discerning Spirits And Doctrine Tests

SPEAKER_04 1:02:52

No, but I love what you said though, man. Uh it's important to understand the criteria that God, you know, we should use in order to test the spirits. But you mentioned one in particular that I think uh people bypass often, and it's self-control, man. That's such a big thing. We live in a society, especially in today where everybody's so self-propagating, self-absorbed, etc., etc. And what you see in the scriptures, especially with regards to um ministry, is a self, not a basing sort of mindset, because that's also going the opposite end of the same kind of problem, but uh but a selflessness wrapped up in I'm trying to do good for somebody else's benefit, specifically to the glory of God, man. That's unique amongst Christians, I feel. And um, yeah, well said.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:30

Yeah, so in particular in 1 Corinthians 12, so here's the interesting part. So we'll go to verse one. He says, Concerning spirituals, brothers, and the the word gifts is implied there, the word there is pneumaticon. So he means he means uniquely things that are manifestations of the spirit. I don't want you to be ignorant. So he wants them to know. Verse 2 you know that when you were pagans, you were led astray to the mute idols, however, you were led. So he's going to tell them, okay, I am going to contrast the real stuff with the false stuff that you've been entertaining. So I'm yes, you've seen manifestations. Yes, you know what these manifestations are. You've seen them before when you were in these pagan temples and and speaking to these idols. What's his first test? Therefore, I make known to you no one speaking by the Spirit of God says Jesus is a curse, and no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. First test, doctrine. Yeah, well said. Proper doctrine. Yeah. That's right. First test is doctrine. Now, notice what he didn't say. When they freak out and roll around on the ground, he didn't say that.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:38

He he didn't say when when they shout and raise their hands. He didn't say that. Matter of fact, he never points to any physical contrast in this at all. The only thing that he talks about that is is absolutely different is this. When the pagans were underneath their inspiration by their demonic spirits, those things took them over. Yeah, and there was no self-control. So they would writhe and they would foam at the mouth, and they would they would have these utterances and uh the what they call jiggled the what they call the mantis and the uh uh the Delphic and the Panthea oracles. Like if you remember the movie 300, the chick who's sitting over uh, you know, uh Leonidas goes up on top of the mountain to to go get some prophetic words, and the girl's like, you know, dancing with this cloth and all this stuff, and then she she issues forth these prophetic words, and then the dudes who are all gnarled up, they come and they, you know, he gives them money and they tell them what the prophecy says. Okay, that's that's an image of the the Pythia and the Delphic Oracle that were that were very popular back then. Yeah, yeah. And so what would happen is that when these other spirits came and did their thing, the person had no control over what was happening. And so when I hear people and they're like, Oh, I just couldn't help it. Okay, look, I get you're so given over to God, He comes and does whatever he wants. I get that. Yeah. I get that. Okay. You you've got the glory of the Lord falls in the dedication of the Solomonic Temple, and the priests can't do their duties. Okay. They are literally knocked down and incapacitated. I get that. Okay. I so I want to make room for that. But when somebody tells me that I didn't have the ability to stop if I didn't want to. Yeah. If I wanted to, that's problematic. It is. It's problematic.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:26

Once again, great distinction because we're not being extreme. We're not saying if you see a manifestation of a person excited and exuding some sort of physical reaction, that in itself does not uh entail demonic. I want to say that because again, Christian history has um revivals that occurred, some of which you will agree that they were revivals, early American revival, West revival, etc., etc., whereby these physical, tangible evidences occurred. People physically did things when they were weeping uncontrollably, these sort of things were uh categorized as real revival. What you didn't see, however, was a sort of again um involuntary response whereby they can't control themselves or exude some level of self-control. Where they're where it became sensual, where it became so uh weird for lack of better words, they're rolling on the floor, dancing, etc. etc. It was more of a somber weeping and crying and wailing sometimes because of uh the fact that the Holy Spirit was revealing sin and then covering them with this reality of his grace and love, such that the people wept uncontrollably sometimes. Um, but they they exuded self-control too. They weren't rolling on the ground, they weren't beating each other up, they weren't kung fu fighting the sort of extra stuff that you might see at a Benny Hill crusade. So I want to make that make that clear. Just because you see some sort of physical reaction does not equal demonic. Physical reaction with control is typically the case, what you would see in the Bible. Even when you see Jesus coming before his crucifixion and uh a legion of people comes to him, and he has that amazing scene there where he says, I am him. You know, you who are you looking for? He says, Jesus, I'm him. And they allegiance simultaneously falls down. This is what occurs when the presence of God does his thing. So presence of uh actions in and of itself does not equal bad. Unvoluntary actions whereby you see sensuality and this sort of thing, terrible, run away.

Order In Worship: Tongues And Interpretation

SPEAKER_03 1:08:15

Yeah, like the the stuff that came out of uh a number of of revival, quote unquote revivals in the 90s where people were barking like dogs and crawling on the Azusa. No, it wasn't Azusa, it was uh it was uh Toronto. Azusa was the one in 1906 with the Pentecostals, and that one was the first one. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Um, but the you know, these those things are you know, they're not the Lord. Now, now I need to be careful, okay, because here here's the first thing, okay. Ready? And and this is gonna cause some of you guys to to think and and hopefully it doesn't cause you to to stumble, okay? But first Corinthians chapter 12 says interpret tongues. Ready? There's no interpretation of the book of Acts. None. Why? Because context matters. Paul was putting guardrails on a church that was out of order, that's what he was doing. And if we never had a church that was out of order, we wouldn't have first Corinthians. Yep. Okay, so understand that God gets to do whatever he wants. And if he he wants to break rules, they're his rules. He gets to break them. So I'll give you an example. Somebody says, The Lord told me to show up to church in a yellow duck outfit. Dude, that wasn't Jesus. Like, are you serious? Walk in the back in a yellow duck outfit. No, that's not God. No, there's no way. Little do you know, some dude earlier that morning grabbed the craziest stupid thing he could to challenge God. I'm gonna go to church, God, and unless there's some stupid guy in there in a yellow duck outfit, I'm not gonna believe you. But if you're real, you're gonna you never know. You never know. I told you guys a story about the mommies and daddies thing where this guy gets a word from the Lord, there's this girl at the altar and she's weeping, and the Lord says, You need to go tell her God hates mommies and daddies. What? No, there's no way that's that's you, Lord. I I can't no, God hates mommies and daddies. No way, dude. Like, like, no, God, I know you're there's no way that's you tell her God hates mommies and daddies. So he's like, all right. He walks up and he's like, hey, um, you know, this is sorry for saying this, but yeah, this may sound really, really strange, but I just, you know, I gotta gotta be faithful to what I believe God put on my heart. And and you know, know this guy. God wants you to know God hates mommies and daddies, and she loses it. Loses it. Here's what he says afterward that girl was molested by her father who used the game mommies and daddies to molest her. And this what seems like a stupid word that could no no way be got at all set her free and healed her in that moment from a history of wounds and and abuse and molestation. Yeah, yeah. Wow. So be careful, guys. Be be careful. The other one I have is uh, you know, I had a uh a pastor friend of mine, he's in um San Luis Obispor, somewhere down south here in California. Big old church. Middle of service, somebody starts going off in tongues, and and for those of you who aren't Pentecostal or or charismatic, listen, you can tell when tongues is meant for the congregation and when tongues isn't. Okay. Like you can tell if someone's just quietly speaking in tongues in the corner. If you even if you can hear them, you know that's not meant for you, bro. Like, that's between them and God, even if you can hear it. Okay, so you can tell. Like if you if you right, you if you've ever been in a in a church service where someone goes off in tongues and there's like a it's like for real and there needs to be an interpretation, you know. The whole church goes quiet, they're super loud. Doesn't happen very often in in uh in some cases happens a lot in others. Anyway, he's in the service, somebody starts going off in tongues, everybody goes quiet. This person's in the uh choir. Pastor, to his credit, stops everything and goes, all right, biblically, supposed to have an interpretation of tongues. That's what first Corinthians says, so we're gonna wait for an interpretation. It's later, no interpretation. All right, guys. Sorry, this is kind of awkward. Um, trying to be in order. If you have an interpretation, please bring it forward. No interpretation. Okay, we're gonna move on with service. Uh, just want you to know, you know, and to his credit, dude. Like that's exactly what you should do. Sure. Yeah. Service ends, he gives an altar call, one guy responds. Says yes to Jesus, gives his life to Jesus, whatever. Service empties out. This guy comes up to the pastor and says, if it hadn't been for the most beautiful Hebrew I've ever heard in my life from that person speaking from the choir, I would not have said yes to Jesus. So, what's the math? Number one, only one person heard Hebrew. Nobody else heard Hebrew. Everybody else heard what what some people will call gobbledygook, whatever. That's whatever the ecstatic speech is what what theology calls it. Only one person heard Hebrew. It was him. Second, there was an interpretation given to him. Yeah, he heard it, he knew what it was, but he didn't know any better. So be gracious, guys. God gets to make his rules, God gets to gets to do whatever it is that he wants to do, be slow to judge, be be slow, be slow to judge. Get all the data before you know that kind of stuff. Because you you you just never know. What if God breaks outside of the box and you found to be you often does you are found to be the one resisting him, like they said in axe? He was like, Look, if this stuff is from the Lord, no one's gonna be able to stop it. But if it's not, it'll fizzle out. Yep, yep. Um, you said something earlier that I wanted to follow up on, uh, and I forgot what it was. You got any thoughts going through your mind right now?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:34

Nah, man. I think you hit it on the head. Today's a day of difficulties, guys. So far, pardon us.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:39

Yeah, for sure. For those of you who are alive and stuff, we've uh haven't having some um you know tech difficulties. That's what I was gonna say. Uh to your point, there is a difference between a spiritual manifestation and a physical manifestation. What do I mean by that? What I mean is that somebody can be laughing. Laughing isn't the Holy Spirit, laughing is the person, okay? Falling down isn't the Holy Spirit. Falling down is the person responding to something. So draw a distinction between that which is natural and that which is spiritual. Jonathan Edwards wrote the book, The Religious Affections, because he started seeing all these kinds of manifestations in the Great Awakenings. In the 1700s, that's right. And the the yelling, the the laughing, all the stuff that we see in our standard stuff, he was seeing the same kind of stuff. And so he was like, I need to know what's God, I need to know what's flesh, and I need to know what's demonic. Because those are your three sources. It's either the Lord, it's the natural man, or it's demonic.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:36

Demonic, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:14:37

That's it. Yeah, so he's like, I need to figure out what what what's what. And so he wrote the book, The Religious Affections, because he he wanted to judge, he needed to know, okay, how do I parse this? Because you did you don't want to be found resisting God, and you absolutely yeah, you know, and at the same time, you you you don't want to let the devil run around having a heyday either.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:56

You want to fall for nonsense, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:59

Exactly. So so these are not new issues, they they've been happening for a while, but uh so so distinguish you know, somebody who fears the terror of the Lord because they're like, I'm gonna die and go to hell if I don't get right with Jesus, and they're weeping and yelling uncontrollably. That's a natural response. That's the natural person. Okay, so so parse those things properly when when watching these things. Okay, how do we deal with the false prophets? Expect own them. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:33

Totally kidding. Please do not say, yeah.

Natural Reactions Vs Spiritual Sources

SPEAKER_03 1:15:40

I kid, I kid. Jesus said that the number one sign of the end times is deception. Deception, yes. Well, do not be deceived, for false prophets and false Christs will arrive and arise and deceive many. Okay. If God is exposing the church, which I believe he is, for the sake of her getting in order, which I believe is exactly what's happening, where he is he is allowing that which is wheat to be distinguished from that which is tares, and where he is he is giving an opportunity for those who actually do love him and don't know any better, or do love him or and are struggling to get right and to repent. Okay. This is going to arise, it's gonna continue to get more and more and more. Three things. You better be reading your Bible, you had better be in the word of God. There is nothing more grounding. If if you want to know the thoughts of God, they're gonna sound just like scripture. They're they are going you you are going to wash and conform your mind to this is what and how he speaks, this is this is his character, this is his nature, this is his ready style. This is how he does things. Further, if it's a heavenly book, like we talked about earlier, that's the words from the supernatural throne room of God, even beyond a prophetic revelation. Better be in the word. Number two, you better be developing a lifestyle of prayer. Prayer, yeah. And I don't just mean privately. Like you're you're supposed to have your own personal prayer life, have a quiet place, have a secret place, have that. You're you're supposed to have that, and you're supposed to be with the people praying regularly. Well said, man. Okay. Number three, and this is the one that a lot of of self-sovereign Christians have a problem with. You had better be in local fellowship. You had better be in local fellowship. All of these earmarks of judgment and discernment concerning manifestations happen in the context of the gathered local church. Yep. You cannot see. That's right. You cannot have the rest of the brethren cast judgment on something if you're not with the rest of the brethren. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:56

Like I and you dare not assume that you're some special and you don't need somebody else to see gifts in you. Don't presume to note it yourself.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:03

Yeah, 100%. You you we we operate in such a level of subjectivity regularly to have a brother or sister's eyes on us regularly is hugely important. Hugely important. Hey, got this thing going on. I'm gonna submit this to my brothers and my sisters, or you know, whatever kind of relationships it is that you have. I need you to judge this thing because this is what it looks like to me. And you bring that and you you let that thing be spoken to by the people that God has has put in the local structure. You know, that's it's safe actually. A lot of people are scared of commitment and covering and even submission and obedience. And the truth is, biblically, that's your safest place. Your safest place is committed together locally covenant. I was sharing on Sunday, um, uh Sunday sermon that I think it was Sunday, um, whatever, that there are there are two things primarily that the persecuted church craves and yearns for. And and by the way, for those who don't know, the majority of Christians on the earth are in places that are suffering persecution now. Like the the global seat of Christianity is Africa and Asia. It's no longer the West, it's no longer America, it's no longer Europe. Not at all.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:18

Well said.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:19

And because of the baptism and the Holy Spirit, this is why it's exploded the way it has since the 1900s. The global seat of Christianity is now by far and large in zones where you can die for having a Bible or you can die for saying that you're a Christian or wearing a cross or go to prison. So when when when the persecuted church is spoken to, and the thing, the two, the top two things that they crave, the first thing is a Bible. They want a Bible. So they they get the Bible and they memorize the Bible as fast as they can when they get it, because they don't know how long they're gonna have the Bible. And so they memorize it and then they give the Bible away to someone else who doesn't have a Bible so that they can memorize it. Talk about valuing the word of God, like that's crazy to me. And we we we we here in America, we're like every home's got like 10 Bibles and no one reads any of them.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:07

Second thing that they crave more than anything else, the ability to gather without persecution. They want to have church without the fear of the police resting them, arresting them. Wow, wow, and we do everything we can to not have to go to church. Like our brothers and sisters, if we were to sit at the feet of the persecuted church and say, God, you know, teach us, like we you know, we're talking with Brian Scooby about, teach us. And it's you you need to value the scripture and you need to value the local gathering and be committed to it. Yeah, amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:41

Yeah, that's where safety is. And you know, if you're if you're gathered with folks who know, then you know, these false prophecies and stuff that have been taking the the the body of Christ by storm, these these just these black eye like I hate, I hate when the church gets a black eye. I I hate it. Yeah, me too. You should hate it, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:01

It's a reflection. For real. It causes the Gentiles to blaspheme the name of the Lord, and that we shouldn't be happy about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:07

That's right. What did what did he tell David? You have given great opportunities for the enemies of God to blaspheme. It's like yeah, but as God is exposing what's coming, you know, I I preached yesterday that there is the the shaking is already here, guys. Hebrews chapter 12, the shaking is already here, and the point of the shaking, and it's just gonna get worse, is that God is revealing what's eternal from what's not. Yeah, yeah. He's revealing what's kingdom and what's not. So amen. Well, we are at about an hour and a half. Uh, you got any any thoughts, Terence?

Staying Safe: Word, Prayer, Local Church

SPEAKER_04 1:21:39

Yeah, some closing remarks really quick, man. I just want to restate you you said it well, but this bears again restating. Um, with regards to what you just said about church and reading the scriptures, think about think about it like this, guys. Um do you actually believe what's implied by the scriptures? The scriptures calls us sheep. The sheep is not the smallest animal. The sheep is always going astray, he's stupid. The scriptures also said apart from Jesus, you could do nothing. Therefore, the implication is if you are stupid and a sheep that is prone to wand stray and you can't do anything without Jesus, then if you were to stay away from the herd, as it were, the church, you're easily your your prey, your food. So the devil goes around like a roaring lion seeking somebody to be devouring. That could be you. So take heed to that word. So find yourself a local assembly, not to just go and you know, sit down and be a pew member, but to go see what you can do to um apply your gifts. God has given us all gifts, apply your gifts and also learn um so that you could be a better discerner and a better use uh useful Christian for the kingdom of God. Secondly, going back to the first point, um, the Bible, this is indeed the word of God. And it's very uh by God's grace, I can say that's something that God has really revolutionized my life uh the last five years. Prior to reading the Bible, I've read more theological books, more, more books pertaining to Christianity and about the Bible than the actual Bible itself. I don't know why I did that. I say that to my shame, but I say it to make this point. It wasn't until I read the Bible cover to cover over and over again that I started seeing something. This truly is not only the word of God, but this really is food for the soul. Man will not live by anything else except the word of God. And in the same way, if you don't, if you miss your natural food, it's gonna show in various ways and ramifications in your body. You miss the word of God, whether you realize it or not, you're going to show in the spirit a lacking there, a void there that cannot be uh adequately sustained by anything else except the word of God. So please, please, please, please take heed to these words. Get yourself into a church and read the Bible. Don't assume I don't understand it and therefore I don't read it. I think sometimes that could occur. Think about it like this when you're eating, you're not necessarily wondering how is this going to help my lungs and liver and bodily organs. You're just eating to be sustained. In the same way, the Bible's supernatural. Just just eat, just feast on the word for a little bit, eat on it. And as time goes by, you will see this supernatural uh sort of reality whereby the food of the scripture is sustaining you. You're being taught, whether you realize it or not. My last analogy, this is probably a little funny, but it's the way I think about it. Recall for a moment that old school movie, um, a karate kid, and Mr. Miyagi is teaching him, you know, these moves, the wax on, wax off, and he's getting annoyed. He's like, Why am I keep doing this? Day in and day out. I'm doing the same move. I came here to learn to fight, man. Teach me how to fight. And then Mr. Miyagi shows him. He he starts to fight him, and then Daniel realizes it without even thinking, without even realizing that he knows karate moves because he studied the basics. Read the Bible, and you're not realizing that God is doing something supernaturally in you, so that when the testing comes, it'll outpour out of you without you realizing it. So read your word.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:37

Amen. And just to follow on on Terrence's statement, the the metaphor of the devil is a roaring lion. You know, what do what do lions do with herd animals? You know, Terrence was talking about sheep. And what do lions do? What what is what does the pride do? What are the what do the predators do? They separate the weak, they separate the young, they separate the sick, they separate the old. And how do they get them? They separate them from the herd, is what they do. And once they get them separated, they jump on them. Yep. Yep. And so be be brutal with yourself. Look, it you know, Christianity is it it's not gonna keep you from suffering, but there's a difference between suffering because you're doing what God wants you to do, and a difference between suffering because you're out of order. And if your suffering and your situation is because you're out of order, you don't get to look at that and claim that this is God's suffering for your life. No, that's you being dumb. That's just you being stupid. But if you're in the will of God, what the qualification is if you suffer for doing the will of God, you're blessed, you get great favor because of that. And judge your life. Look, if if it's fallen apart and you're not inside of the will of God, that's you. You get to own that one, sweetie. To say. But if you're suffering and you're doing everything that you're supposed to do, then you have confidence of a great reward in heaven for you because God is doing something. So God bless you guys. We love you. Uh, keep your discernment going. It's gonna be huge in in these uh end times. Um, you know, we got uh an interview coming up. Um we'll we'll do it live this Thursday, but then we'll we'll do all the the mastering, all the stuff that needs to be done for the release of it, uh, probably in two weeks. Um, we're gonna have Bob Maddox, he was uh keynote speaker at uh Lighthouse's 20th anniversary celebration, and uh I was just tickled pink because he hit all the stuff that we've been saying for the last several years. Um so we're gonna talk with him about his message and and why he uh why he was saying what he was saying. Um and he's he's actually was addressing some of this false prophecy stuff too, because it's uh it's part of his world too. You know, um we need to have character and we need to be accurate and we know what what is the Lord needs to be the Lord, and we don't we don't need the fake, we don't need the false. So all right, we love you guys. God bless you. See you next time. Peace.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:06

Blood and oil podcast is filmed and recorded by Pastor Jesse and Zayn in California with Terrence on Video Call from the East Coast. We thank our supporters, and please be reminded to use your own discernment as the views and opinions expressed by the hosts and guests may not reflect those of other people, institutions, or organizations. A variety of guests will join us as we discuss modern events through a biblical lens, so buckle up and enjoy the ride. Thanks to all of our supporters and praise God for the opportunity to serve him in this way. We hope you have enjoyed this episode and pray for blessings on your day.