Aloha Alive: The Dawn O'Brien Podcast
Why Aloha? the whole world knows what aloha is--love in Hawai'i--but better to ask WHY ALOHA? the answer is as essential as breath & as fun as whistling, so LET'S GO!
Aloha Alive: The Dawn O'Brien Podcast
Ep. 13: Deeper Still ~ Aloha for the Abortion-Wounded
Hitomi & Sean Nakamoto share about Deeper Still Hawaii, a program that offers healing retreats for those wounded by abortion experiences. They explore the emotional, spiritual & relational impacts of abortion trauma while emphasizing compassion, healing & HOPE!
• 1-in-4 women have experienced abortion; with over 250,000 recorded abortions in Hawaii alone since 1970, when HI was the 1st state to make abortion legal.
• Women who've had abortions face 81% higher risk of mental illness & 155% higher risk of suicidal thoughts.
• Unresolved abortion trauma can affect parenting abilities, relationships & lead to destructive coping mechanisms.
• Men are equally impacted by abortion experiences but often overlooked.
• 6-out-of-10 women & 5-out-of-10 men who've experienced abortion are Christians.
• Churches often struggle to address abortion wounds through either condemnation or avoidance.
• Deeper Still retreats provide FREE, confidential healing thru prayer, worship & testimonies.
• Participants experience transformation from shame & silence to freedom & ability to help others.
More info? Deeper Still Hawaii www.NaWaiHoola.org, call 808-945-1151, or email DeeperStillHawaii@gmail.com. YOU ARE BELOVED!
IG @DawnOBrienHI
FB Dawn O'Brien HI
www.ChooseAloha.org
Welcome to Aloha Alive, the Heart of Hawaii. I'm Auntie Dawn, the host of the show with you, ohana, thank you and welcome. Thank you for joining us. I have with me today a very exciting topic that's sometimes hard to talk about, but I found out in my short life that sometimes the things that are the hardest things to talk about are the best things to talk about. Well, please help me to welcome my brother from the big island, big sean nakamoto, and his bride at his side, hitomi Aloha gozaimasu. You know today we're talking about aloha for the abortion wounded, and as we start off, I saw you both recently at TOW, hawaii, transform Our World. And, big Sean, if you would do us the honors and just kind of give us that precursor, a little lomi lomi of the heart statement, in case somebody's watching that's going to be injured or wounded.
Speaker 2:You know, I believe that this issue is a matter of God's heart and what God has in store for everybody, believer and non-believer. And you know people need to understand that abortion isn't a political topic, it isn't a social science topic, it's a hard topic. Yeah, and so the way I introduced you to you was Eitan. Will I be on your show? That's?
Speaker 2:how in Hawaii so that was my request to come and be able to spread this ministry that he told me is the executive director of, and then I get to support her in it. So it's been kind of good to have that and do that with her.
Speaker 1:So, all to say, deeper Still is a wonderful organization that helps people who are abortion wounded, both male and female, and many generations. It could be somebody who is related to someone who has been through the abortion process. And, as he just said, thank you, just to be warned and to be sensitive that we will be dealing with this topic. So our heart is not to injure or wound you further or bring condemnation, but to bring freedom and release. Would that that be fair, he told me, if I said that Totally done. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean, that was my heart too is just to be a resource for people and just to let people know that we're here. You know and it is a difficult topic A lot of people don't want to talk about it. It becomes very political, but I think many of us who have had abortions, we've shoved it down for so long that we think, you know, we've gone on with life. But it comes up in different ways and you may not even realize it. So this ministry is here just to be able to bring that healing and lasting freedom that God wants for all of us.
Speaker 1:I love that and let me break it down to the you and me level. We're kind of talking in some absolute theories, right, not theories, but we're talking in some bigger, vague terms In the you and me level, because I'm Hilo, right, I keep them simple as a pimple. Keep them simple is one in four women have been through the abortion process. Right, that's the statistic. I grew up as the oldest of four girls and at least one of us has been through the abortion process. My sister, michelle, is very public about her testimony. In fact, she's been to a deeper still retreat in knoxville. She lives in Tennessee and you know we bore that. We didn't know when she was going through that at the time with her then boyfriend, but there have been some after effects. Now I want to give you a few more statistics. For those of you joining us and you're sitting at this table with us, thank you that over 190,000 abortions have happened since legalization here in the state of Hawaii.
Speaker 2:Actually from 1970 to 2023, it's over 250,000.
Speaker 1:In the state of Hawaii, in the state of Hawaii, so that's been recorded.
Speaker 2:There might be some numbers as high as 300,000. So that's from 1970, before the laws even passed to 2023. And that's a recorded State of Hawaii. Department of Health records that they know of Wow. Around the world.
Speaker 3:There's been over 65 million Since 1973, when it became legalized in the states. In the states, but Hawaii was the first state to legalize abortion, right in 1970.
Speaker 1:So yeah, since then it's been over 250,000 so we bring these statistics up, not again throwing stones at anyone or condemnation but why I bring it up is and I shared very really that one in four of the o'brien daughters had gone through that and it it really did have some after effects and it may be impacting someone in your life most probably, or in your church.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to ask you he told me, what are some of the after effects that a lot of people don't discuss but if we know, it's happening in many of our families, like my own, ohana, or it's happening in our churches, which I've heard you sean address because you both are pastors. You you pastor a church. The churches need to wake up and get that. This is an issue Right. So, first, let's talk about some of the after effects that are not spoken of.
Speaker 3:I think what happens is it's looked at as just a medical procedure. What you are consented for or what you are told is just you have a risk of bleeding, infection, kind of like the normal things, right, and you sign your name. But I think no one talks about like the emotional after effects, like how you might feel, how it might affect you. Study and they found that 81% higher risk of mental illness for women, 81% higher mental instability and issues for women who have had abortions and this is even more alarming is 155% higher risk of suicidal thoughts or behavior 155% higher.
Speaker 1:Suicide, ideation or behavior.
Speaker 3:So it affects you, I think a lot of emotionally. It comes out in different ways. You stuff it down, you go on with life because there's nobody to talk to. The world tells you it's no big deal, you just keep going, right, right.
Speaker 1:You just had an in and out procedure. It's an outpatient procedure.
Speaker 3:A simple procedure, you know. But I think inside, knowing what just happened, it's hard to deal with that, so you start to mask it. You just happened, it's hard to deal with that, so you start to mask it. There's a lot of. So people who are abortion wounded are probably not able to talk freely about their abortion because they haven't had healing right or they don't know what to do with that. They feel like you know, like they've done something so horrible that they just need to like push it down, that they're not worthy of anything. So that leads to a lot of people who do like kind of more destructive behaviors Addictions, addictions.
Speaker 2:Anxiety disorders.
Speaker 3:Partying Anxiety disorders, suicidal Depression.
Speaker 2:So a lot of self-coping mechanisms or um self-medicating right, it's a trauma in its different forms, they haven't been able to deal with and there's the lie of a simple procedure. It is anything but simple, because it impacts the spirit, the body the mind and the emotions, the head and the heart and the heart part too, is that, as we've been learning, as we've been walking through this journey, is that we think that when we get saved, it's all good.
Speaker 3:We are saved and God has forgiven us.
Speaker 2:And God has forgiven, yes, but there's healing that needs to occur, and if people don't get that healing, they tend to still go back to having those traumas and not functioning the way God created them to function in their fullness and not functioning the way God created them to function in their fullness For the full freedom. Yeah, so that's part of why Deeper still exists. Is that your abortion-wounded heart? Yes, we've been forgiven, but there's healing that has to occur.
Speaker 1:And we learned that in.
Speaker 2:Pastor Rob Gross' Healing Hearts right. There's a layer of an onion that needs to be addressed. And if we don't address the trauma of abortion, other issues are going to affect you Relationships, marriages, mother-daughter, father-son everywhere.
Speaker 3:I think one of the biggest parts, too, is us as women. Whether you are a physical mom or not, I think we are created to nurture and bring life, and so when an abortion happens spiritually, I think, even if we're unaware, it does something there. And so for a lot of mothers and including myself, I know that when I had my abortion, it's almost like my mother's heart got aborted. So the way I mothered, the way I parented, was different. I couldn't give my whole heart, because there was a part of it that was aborted that I didn't deal with.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, so I think so. May I ask, for those who don't know your testimony, how old were you and what was the circumstance around your abortion?
Speaker 3:Just to let you give you a simple story. I was a 17 year old teenager in high school found out I was pregnant. So my friends are deciding on their prom dress and I'm deciding what am I gonna do? Right?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so we thought, okay, I guess we're having a baby, but you know, our parent, my parents, weren't on board, so they typically, I think parents worry about their children right. So meaning, well, I think they felt like this was this was the biggest or best thing to do is just to get rid of the problem. So abortion was the way to go. So before I knew it, I mean, things got scheduled and I had the procedure and yeah, and after that, you know, for my parents, I think, okay, I'll pal.
Speaker 1:Move forward, right, wow, yeah, and that's some of thank you for your graciousness and how you said that, hitomi. And our parents don't mean ill.
Speaker 1:quite often they really want the best for the child our parents don't mean ill. Quite often they really want the best for the child. And at 17 years young, you're at the cusp of the rest of your life and it looks like, as you said, let's just get rid of the problem. And a lot of the terminology around the fetus or the unborn doesn't include that it is a child yet, because that's part of, quite simply to say, the cover-up job and so. But then afterward, what happened for you at that point? Because you did go through with the abortion so I did go through with it.
Speaker 3:Um, it was just a lot of emotional turmoil, oh wow I mean it was a lot of trauma Right then.
Speaker 3:Yeah, from the beginning I think I knew, I mean, even during the whole, like leading up to, and you know I would lay at night and holding my stomach, like you know, like talking to my baby, Like I think inside I knew it was a baby, like they could tell me it's a blob of cells, but I think inside your heart you know that this is your baby and so, um, I think I disconnected myself, tried to move on, did everything I could, went on, overdrive right to do the right thing, to be successful go to school, get a job, you know. Get married, get the house, you know.
Speaker 3:All these things are going on, but my world was crumbling wow you know, for um actually to, to go back a little bit like right after that I started, you know, drinking a lot, partying a lot, just to kind of numb it and to kind of deal with, um, just the different emotions that go on, and you know I had nobody to talk to. Who was? Who was I gonna talk to about how I was feeling and was I making too big a deal of it? Everybody's telling me it's no big deal right.
Speaker 1:It's a simple procedure. Yeah, it's simple, Like go on.
Speaker 3:Just move on, girl, you know Did you talk to your mom. No, oh, wow, we never talked about it again because to them, culturally, it was shaming, yeah, shame right culturally culturally that was shaming yeah, so I had brought shame to, to the family, right, and that was nothing to be talked about anymore, which is the case for many of the people who walk through abortion whether it's the mother, or also the fathers, and you know um, and we'll come right back to this even the families, and the families thank families.
Speaker 1:Thank you, sean. I was speaking to a person that I love dearly. He is male and he confessed to me that he had gone through an abortion and at first I was kind of stunned because I really, as a woman and knowing my sister had gone through this, thought this is a woman's issue.
Speaker 1:But as I sat in my prayer closet on that, I realized it takes two to rumble and if it impacted that young lady, it's also gonna impact the father who brought life it takes two and so it dawned upon me. I swear that's why my name is dawn it takes me so long to get these things. This is literally in the the last year and I had to pray for that man and then I prayed for that we don't just have 65 million women affected by abortions.
Speaker 3:It's double because it's women and men, and then more because it's women and men. What about the grandparents, the families, the brothers and sisters who lost a sibling or the medical professionals maybe, who had any part in doing the abortion.
Speaker 1:You know we hear a lot of those now coming, yes, so there's trauma in all the way around, all the way around, whether you are the mother bearing the young unborn baby, or the father or the family or the medical professionals, so the effects are huge and back to what you said, one key statement that I wanted to zoom in on. You said it affected the way you even raised your son afterwards. What did that look like?
Speaker 3:I think I was more like overly protective. I think just you know, like just um helicopter mom, but I think also because, um, there was so much wounding and hurt. I'm parenting out of that, yes, um and also as you said it hadn't been processed.
Speaker 1:We didn't get freedom and deliverance right.
Speaker 3:It's not out right and um. I think too I would have fits of rage and I didn't know where it would. I don't know like why I would get so angry right, and I think it all stems down to that little thing I secret I had in my heart makes sense. So that's another thing that you know. A lot of wounded people, if you know, you're finding that you're you know, have fits of rage or other emotional outbursts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because, as you just said, it's a deep wound and if we think about it in a medical sense, if you have a deep wound and it becomes infected, it's been there for a long time it's going to be deeply infected infected until you lance the wound and express it. Get it out, bring some fresh flow of blood water and treat it, and I'm not a medical professional, but it just to paint a simple picture of a deep spiritual process of healing, and so talk about that.
Speaker 1:Then you talked about some of the after effects. Now give me the flip side of that, where what do we do? In deeper still, because there are deep wounds, but God is deeper still. Is that where the name comes from? Can I share something real quick, though?
Speaker 2:Yes, so a couple of things. Number one as a man, and I don't have a post-abortion story, but as a man being involved in men's ministry for three quarters of my christian walk, if the men don't recognize that they were part of the problem and the solution, thank you then the trauma rests with them even more. Wow. And so most of the men that we've got to know, the guys we've had two men come through a horror retreat right, they felt like they didn't have a c and I compare that to adam.
Speaker 2:Right, they knew something was going on but they didn't do anything about it and look what happened. And so that wound for them is like they didn't have, they feel like they didn't have a voice, which leads them to not take their rightfully stand and being the man that God created them to be, to help their girlfriend, spouse, whatever, at that point in time. So there's a lot of regret, I think. The second thing I want to share was back in. He told me this time, even to today right, people only talk about what you can do by aborting the baby. We need more resources to talk about what you can do to keep the baby alive. Adoption, passing it on Hanai in the family, right. None of those options are discussed at the time when the person signing the document to do the abortion.
Speaker 2:That's good, so that's one thing that I think we're trying to bring awareness to and and you know, it's funny when he told me says fits of rage. Right, I've talked to chad and chad always tell me my mom was a little bit off, even being a saved christian. Right, chad is her son. Yeah, but that's the. That's the trauma that was never, ever being able to get healed. Come on, we're forgiven, but there's healing that needs to happen, right?
Speaker 2:So much good truth, I think that's part of what we're trying to get out there to be able to help with this unbelievable ministry called Deeper Seal.
Speaker 3:Sorry, I went too fast. No, no, no, I mean thank you because, first of all, you mentioned the men. Thank you because, first of all, you mentioned the men. I mean I have a really uh big heart for the men to come, because I think they're kind of forgotten or not thought of right, I think it's a woman kind of focused on thing it's about the women.
Speaker 1:It's her body it's their, my body, my right, my thing right, but um, what about the dads?
Speaker 3:that's a uh, that was. That's the father of that baby who didn't get to like his job or his. He's created to protect, to speak up.
Speaker 1:That's right To provide for To provide for Protector, provider and pastor.
Speaker 3:And when you don't, then how is that inside of your soul? Right, right, yeah, so you know, some of the most powerful testimonies I've heard are from men. Wow.
Speaker 2:I'll share later on how we came to this ministry was because of two guys that affected her. Wow, yeah.
Speaker 3:But anyway, so just that about the men. Like you were talking about my fits of rage. So the rage, the um, parenting, I'm just surviving, I'm just going along. I'm a christian now and I'm like, okay, I know, god's forgiven me um I'm doing the best I can, um, but never did I think it had anything to do with my abortion yeah right, how would you even make that connection so that if you're going your day-to-day everyday survival, living?
Speaker 3:I just say that to say to people that you know if sometimes you think you're okay, oh yeah, it's been so many years right yeah decades decades, decades ago. So it's it's all good I God now it's all whatever, but just to say that it does come out in different ways that you may not realize.
Speaker 1:So walk us through a Deeper Still healing retreat, because that's what Deeper Still does.
Speaker 3:So Deeper Still got its name by knowing that God will always go deeper still. By knowing that God will always go deeper still. So, regardless of the healing that you've already received, he always wants to go deeper still in our healing. Right We've never arrived, and so he always wants to go deeper still in our hearts, but only if we let Him Right, only if we let Him. And so in a Deeper Still retreat, it's free for the participant. You just need to get. If you're on another island, you just need to get here. But all the lodging, the food, everything is no payment necessary, no cost, no cost at all to the participant, free 90 free yes, let me minus the participant Free 90.
Speaker 1:Free minus the 90.
Speaker 3:We don't want that to be a hindrance for people to come. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:You've normally been having. Now this is a nationwide organization. Thank you to the wonderful founder who started this. I was reading about her. Deeper Still is nationwide, but in Hawaii you've been having these retreats on our island, the big, big island, this um, and we don't want to time bound this, but we also are starting to have them on oahu it's going to be coming up and again, we're not going to time bound it except to say in 2025 it's in october if we're watching this.
Speaker 1:Further than that and jesus hasn't returned for all of us. We'll see what the calendar comes up and and again. If you want to check that, that's going to be on their website and we'll post the website up there on the screen and in the show notes and it's navaihoolaorg. For those of you who don't speak Hawaiian, that's N-A-W-A-I-H-O-O-L-Aorg, and they'll have their calendar. You can also contact them at 808-945-1151. That's 945-1151. Or you can email them. Lots of ways to contact.
Speaker 1:Lots of points and portals of connection, and the email is deeperstillhawaii at gmail. That's deeperstillhawaii at gmail. What is a? We're just talking about the retreat that's open to men and women, then.
Speaker 3:Open to men and women. It'll depend. We keep it small because we want to keep a safe environment for people.
Speaker 1:Yes. And that intimacy that's so needed.
Speaker 3:Right, so we don't take on a lot of people at a time, but it does start on a Friday afternoon, ends on a Sunday, like brunch time it is. The retreat is based on prayer, yes, worship.
Speaker 1:Powerful.
Speaker 3:Because worship is what really prepares your heart.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:For what God is doing and we're just setting the stage at the retreat for really God and Holy Spirit to come and do the work. That's the only way that transformation can happen, right Wow?
Speaker 2:God's Word and Holy Spirit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the prayer, worship God's Word.
Speaker 1:And there's testimonies from what I've heard, you share we share testimonies what moved me when I was watching the TOW Hawaii share time that you both gave was there was a gentleman who attended one Similar story to yourself where he had gotten pregnant with his girlfriend in high school, didn't realize he needed any further healing I mean the focus was on the female didn't think, hey, I'm a guy, I need to walk through the grieving process or I'm a guy I need to look at my part in that decision, as you shared Sean. But he went to the retreat and had a life changing experience. Absolutely changed his tracks. Same thing for Sister.
Speaker 2:Doreen right.
Speaker 1:Doreen sharing and she's a pastor's wife on the Big Island finally got to go. You've invited her many times. There's always a space and Doreen shared how it really hit her and she thought she had dealt with it already. But, as you say, deeper still and my sister had said the same thing and now she's supporting other people and she's always been very vocal, if you think I'm vocal you have yet to meet my sister Michelle, and Michelle's always been very vocal about the unborn and loving the unborn in response to her abortion.
Speaker 1:And there are times even later in the years and it's been probably my gosh 30 plus years since that baby went home to heaven and Michelle says there are moments it still comes up for her. And she's just being raw and real and she'll grieve it, she'll have fits of anger.
Speaker 1:She'll have bad dreams and not to speak, that you're going to have consequences or bad effects forever. But if you're having that, perhaps consider that it is connected to that. Now she's on the victory side of that decision and that choice. So once you're inviting that all people can come, cost it's free. Our favorite four-letter F word right. Free, free, free free or food, you can pick that four letter f word as well.
Speaker 3:Free food too double jackpot.
Speaker 1:It's confidential right, the people that we've mentioned, have publicly testified and they would love for us to share it more and help more people to come in, and then men can come. Have you ever had a couple come to a retreat?
Speaker 2:Not yet. I love that response by both of you Not yet and I think our mainland chapters, the ones that are established for a while, have recently began to allow couples to come, because sometimes you have to be careful because it might trigger. It depends, right.
Speaker 1:So we haven't had it yet and then, when God allows it to happen, we'll allow it to work right Because, as we were saying, it does take a man and a woman to make a baby, and so I can see how both people need to walk through this, but it would be a sensitive process to walk them both through it at the same time.
Speaker 2:Kind of give a little details about the retreat right. You show up on a Friday, as he told me said, and the heart of Deeper Seal is to just make it make you feel so valuable. The participants know that this is for them, like we encourage them, we tell them, and our last one we had three leaders. Don't do nothing, just show up right, just come and receive right.
Speaker 2:We remind them that you may be ministry, you may be a healing minister for 30 years, but your job is to come here and receive. So we really speak that out and affirm them of that, that's great. And then you know, there's a testimony night the first night and then from Saturday morning to Saturday night. It's pretty much it's it's called spiritual legal work.
Speaker 3:Spiritual legal work, and it's a rough day.
Speaker 2:And that's why, for us, we always know this is all rooted in prayer. So six weeks before the retreat starts, even eight weeks before the retreat starts, we're praying, for we may not even know the participants yet. But we have a prayer team once a week, twice a week.
Speaker 1:First a little bit that's just praying for the retreat, because everything has to be covered in prayer.
Speaker 2:It's such a spiritual battle that we have to cover it in prayer and because I'm still new to this right.
Speaker 2:He told me, went to her retreat in 2021, which is like the actual first retreat for Deeper Still right, Deeper Still Hawaii and I didn't get involved until 2023 and I was supposed to be a volunteer but she got COVID so I had to be the assistant facilitator Never done it before right. And I saw everything that she told me that happened in her retreat. I saw it in front of my eyes happen and that healing and wholeness that god bring. Now everything's done, but whatever the abortion wounded, trauma that you had, walking in god gives so much freedom to those people walking out wow and so even our team members that have gone through the retreat.
Speaker 1:What does that look like? If I might ask.
Speaker 2:They walk in very sad and crying and then by the last night they're dancing dances of joy, wow, and be able to some of the easiest things to say. Some people can't even use the word abortion on their testimony.
Speaker 1:Friday night.
Speaker 2:By Sunday. They can say it with no problem, wow. And then we hear the testimonies after like oh, I'm walking in a store and someone came to me. By the way, I've had an abortion.
Speaker 3:Because now their voice has been freed. Satan had a hold, but no longer now. So now they have a voice and they go out and they start sharing with people, and then people start sharing back.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:You know, and so it's an amazing thing, and they can set other captives free.
Speaker 1:Exactly and we use that analogy. It's not just a cliche where somebody has been imprisoned by a spiritual wound we're talking about abortion woundedness right now and that person then gets free but turns back into the prison on inconscionable. And what other place would you do this but to set other prisoners free? My sister, Michelle, was able to reach out to another sister of ours who had also gone through it and was able to speak that, like you said, to call it out, I have power over this thing. It doesn't have power over me and then I can use it as a key to get you out of your cell. Sister, there's freedom, there's release, there's joy.
Speaker 2:Think about generational. So we have one of our team members. She did the video, shelly. She was able to. Her daughter now is getting free because of her being free.
Speaker 1:Wow, so there's just generational healing.
Speaker 2:That's happening right. Which is so, jesus, for those of you who are.
Speaker 1:Christians and watching. You know Jesus spoke. I always say it's like when he spoke the first words on the Sea of Galilee. It's like a little stone that drops into the water and it begins to ripple out. It goes all the way out to the shores. It went all the way out to asia minor, it goes all the way out across the world to hawaii, and then that world, that word, bounces back and ripples and it doesn't just go in one place or time, it goes to multiple generations and multiple decades and you shall be blessed to the third and the fourth generation
Speaker 1:even to the hundredth generation. And we say that blessing specifically right now, because we're talking about abortion, which is the devil coming to steal, kill and destroy, yes, on every level physically, emotionally, mentally, financially, generationally, right In every level. But we reverse the curse and we bring the blessing and we're speaking a blessing to the second, third, fourth generation. So thank you for doing what you're doing. I'm going to pivot to Sean and both of you, of course, welcome to. But I appreciated that my brother is big enough to call out churches. If you are not dealing with abortion woundedness, you're out of touch. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:So one of the stats that we've learned about is that seven out of 10 women and five out of 10 men that have had an abortion are considered Christian attendees. Seven out of 10 women and five out of 10 men have had an abortion and they consider themselves.
Speaker 1:Christians. So we're sitting in church and pretty much I can half the church, and if that's half of them are men, that's that's the half that's gone through an abortion, and seven out of 10 of that.
Speaker 2:So what I've been learning and I say this with all grace and compassion right, If we think we don't have an abortion-wounded issue in our churches, then we're lying to ourselves. Wow, Our people may be performing to do the work of the Lord, but are they healthy in what they're doing?
Speaker 1:for the work of their family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Right, and so knowing that, like I've been a pastor now for 13 years and I didn't go to school to be a pastor, but I don't think anyone got taught how to deal with abortion in seminary school or in any kind of college, yeah no. So part of our struggle as pastors is we either take two camps. We camp on the side of just bashing everybody and calling out sin and condemning which doesn't work.
Speaker 2:We don't talk about it at all, which is actually even worse. Wow, and so part of the reason why we created NavajoOlaorg the healing waters is that Deeper Still is the main component and pillar of how to help people who have gotten an abortion. But how do we go to the churches and say, hey, we have a resource for you a resource that can help you with the abortion-wounded heart and then a resource through multiple global organizations Care, net, life, international.
Speaker 2:How can we start to talk about abortion with compassion, hope and empathy, so that people don't feel like they can't talk about it? Because in the church and I've seen it right I've had to confess and apologize on behalf of pastors to some of our team members when they went to tell their pastor, because part of their steps when you're done with the retreat, prayerfully go talk to your pastor about your situation. Yes, you know, tell them the story and I've had a couple of people say they went to their pastors and the pastors gave them the oh, good job and then right, because part of it is not that they they aren't excited, they just don't know what to do with it.
Speaker 2:It's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Yes, at the very least and I'm a woman saying that why you know I'm thinking of all the issues that we do in churches with the limited resources that we have. You want me to add on one more thing, but I would have to say, as a woman who's heard, you folks heard my sister, michelle, and I understand, and I've sat with women in prayer circles or sat at the dinner table with the dilemmas talking about the loss of their granddaughter, right, and it wasn't through abortion, but it was a, it was a stillborn death it was very similar and it tore up the family and how it took miracles, mountain-sized miracles, to get them all through.
Speaker 1:I have to say this isn't another issue, it is the issue. It's a pretty big issue. It's a pretty big issue. I'd say it's in the top five. And if we're looking at, five out of ten guys and seven out of ten women who have been through abortion are now sitting in your church, but we're not dealing with that, then you are right, brother, then you're lying and you're deceiving yourself by not touching it, because there's trauma and healing that needs to go on and people think that they're okay.
Speaker 2:And I get that right. We think we're okay until we're not okay.
Speaker 1:And I'm not here to bash the church. I've done my time on that side of the sidelines. I'm not here to throw rocks at my brothers or sisters in ministry, but we're gently compelling you to please talk about this. At least give it some time from the pulpit, because we all know, sitting at this table or those of you watching, if we're not hearing it from the pulpit, it's really not going to happen. Yeah, exactly so. Do you have a slide? Do you have a short video? I mean what's available? You gave me so much hope when you said resources.
Speaker 2:We actually have been developing some resources where we're meeting with different pastors of churches and, depending on where they feel their level of church is at, we can either come to it from the pulpit and share with them a message similar to why Deeper still exists, and then also tell them about how can we talk more about abortion from a point of life versus death.
Speaker 2:There's resources for that to do, because we actually going through it right now. Or we can be a booth or we can do it in a small group. We just want to be able to resource pastors, because you said it earlier, right, a pastor can't add a senior pastor can add one more thing, one more ministry. Some maybe can, but it's going to take them a long time to come to speed. We have a resource that I've seen miracles happen. Out of my 20 years of ministry, this is probably the best resource, and it's not something that you've got to create. I mean, literally, you just take the manual, you follow the instructions, you speak the scripture and you let the Holy Spirit drop.
Speaker 1:And that's not to demean or discount the power of those simple instructions.
Speaker 2:It actually adds to it.
Speaker 1:But it's that simple. It's a stop drop and go. It's that good and God's Spirit comes in and fills that simple program. So, if we can call abortion a simple procedure program, so if we can call abortion a simple procedure, then we certainly can say that.
Speaker 1:God's healing is also a simple solution. It's a simple solution and the simple spirit of God comes in and fills that, so that does give me a lot of hope, brother, and both of you have said it's resources and we don't need to reinvent the wheel. You already have the wheel. You're giving out Xerox copies of the wheel. Here you go 3d print it, do whatever you need to do.
Speaker 2:One of the things that we've been learning just in our last leadership retreat was this is really a god's heart issue yes, so the church needs to realize that what the enemy is doing is it's taking well.
Speaker 1:This is worldwide, though, 75 million babies a year or more right every time you hear this yeah, because it doesn't count a lot of the backroom abortions. It doesn't count a lot of things that are just hush-hush under the under the.
Speaker 3:So they have just the abortion pill that's right you can just get online and that's right.
Speaker 1:It gets delivered to you, so we're not counting that, you know wow, that's a whole nother.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so if we know that it's a attack on the father's heart, we, as brothers and sisters who love god and our father's father's, grieving, what can we do to stop that grieving? That's good, you know. And, um, that hits on because four years ago I didn't have like people talk about abortion, like I don't know what to talk about, like all I see, is people getting slammed or people not saying nothing? Yeah, yeah, since then I'm like whoa.
Speaker 2:Now I understand what god's asking us to do because, resources are out there yes, right and, like I've been telling all of our pastor friends, you guys know me, you guys know us here's a resource. Use us right. We have a team.
Speaker 2:We have a team of 22 team members from 18 different churches wow two islands that are willing to serve and we want to be able to grow that ministry in the kingdom of god to help other people. Because we can't. We can't reach 500,000 hawaii people. I mean, if there's 250,000 abortions times two, there's a half a million people in hawaii that are alive, that are struggling with the trauma of abortion.
Speaker 1:That's astounding because we have a population of 1.2 million. 500,000 is almost half of our population. That's how real and relevant the need is as we look out to you, ohana. A few things that I heard. Number one there are resources. There's already a cheat sheet, an answer sheet. You've got a team of 22 people on two different islands. I'm sure we can spread that to the other islands. Don't don't have yet, like Hawaii, maybe Maui, right, moloka'i, we know Lanai is out there, ni'ihau we see all of you and, if you're on the, the other islands around the world, like the continental United States or Alaska.
Speaker 1:Las Vegas, the ninth island, wherever you are, there are resources that are happening. Now also, I heard you say not just that, our resources, but we don't need to reinvent the wheel. And then you, speaking to pastors, inspired my heart as we bring this in for a landing. That, as a sister listening to other people a lot of times, what looks like a very big, abstract topic like abortion, I remember when my sister was confessing her abortion. We had grown up in a Christian family.
Speaker 1:My dad started off with New Hope Hilo all the way back in 1983, four daughters, and my sister was looking at me. We were all just kind of having a family retreat for whatever reason. We were at the house in Honolii and she confessed it. It came out, she wanted to tell us and it really hurt her and at that moment I didn't know how to respond. I was staring at the wall for whatever weird reason and please know I'm a really simple person. I get distracted by food. If I see a fly fly by, I'm like my gosh, a fly. So I'm staring at the wall because a fly flew by and my sister stopped her story and her confession and she said Dawn, how dare you judge me?
Speaker 1:And I turned around because I hadn't said anything. The other two sisters were comforting her and I looked at her and I said I'm so sorry. I just didn't know what to say and I started to cry. My point in bringing that up is that and as you both have shared, and especially my brother Sean, who's a man's man it's simply being there and he spoke it to the pastors of the churches. But I'm speaking it to us as a family. I'm bringing it down to the you and me level that sometimes it's just about being present in that moment. That's the goodness of God. My sister didn't need a scripture verse, she didn't need a sermon.
Speaker 1:In that moment, she just needed my eyes and my ears and my heart and she had it all. I didn't know. Like you said, I went to Hilo High. We had no classes on how to respond to abortions. I personally have not made that choice. I'm not judging that. But what we're doing is we're bringing solutions and we're bringing compassion to the abortion wounded. For the Churches, for the Church yeah, abortion Wounded Church.
Speaker 2:Is that the title of the? Yeah, it's Abortion Wounded.
Speaker 1:Church, the Abortion Wounded Church. Thank you, brother, that's available If you're so moved, and it's such a thin book it's like written for pastors who have zero time, or their assistants, let's be real their administrative aides so we can get that.
Speaker 1:We also put that up on the screen for you and also in the show notes NA NAWAI, which is the waters of healing, navaihoolaorg. You can call their answering service at any time, day or night, right, everybody 945-1151. And also you can email them the many portals of connection. Reach out and grab these two or their team of 22 people in Hawaii. Thank you to Executive Director Pastor Hitomi. Now, last moment that we have, I have a last question. We're called Aloha Alive, the heart of Hawaii. Thank you for wearing beautiful Aloha attire and in true local Ohana fashion. They're matching, they're matching. We have four sets of clothes that match. I love it. I've seen, I think, at least two of them, because you guys had your anniversary at the church, right, um, and I once had a fiance and I was like, can we please buy matching attire? He's like, not that brand, we're gonna mix up, we're gonna look like we're wearing um, we're gonna look like every other family at the baby luau will blend in and I was like, oh shucks, but I love when families match.
Speaker 1:What's one of your favorite things growing up in Hawaii? What's like a favorite memory, a favorite flavor or a favorite smell. I love that. When you received my lei today that was your favorite lei he told me the Pua Keni, keni, big Sean I was sharing one with. When Kelly Boy them came, I said, oh, it was Guava, fight back in the day with. When Kelly Boy them came, I said, oh, it was Guava, fight back in the day. And it was at Queen's Bath. Remember Queen's Bath Big Island. It was a small little puka in the middle of a black lava field that got mowed over by more lava. What's one of your favorite things growing up? Hawaii?
Speaker 2:You know, I always just dropped them ahead. But being from Hilo up in, up above the Hilo Hospital, I forget what the streams are called, whatever all those streams that people die in these days as kids it was my sophomore year in high school I broke my left arm and we would wrap it up in a bag and we'd go down the slides and we did that the whole summer. The chutes, the chutes right.
Speaker 1:The chutes of falls.
Speaker 2:This is Kolohe days, righthe pre-BC days. But I look at that now and I think about. You know, kids can't do that these days. Well, they could, but they're going to die.
Speaker 1:But we're there, we didn't know any better, we just went well, there's all the poison and all the other things in the aina.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate the fact of growing up in Hilo for so long and now having to help with my dad.
Speaker 1:It's good to go back right you're back a lot because you're taking hilo I always think about.
Speaker 2:I've lived in oahu way longer than I've been raised in hilo, but I still say I'm from brother right, and then every new year is the other.
Speaker 1:Hilo memory is what it's the mochi you know we have such a large japanese that came for the plantations, but it's, it's a, it's a point of pride for me to say no, but hilo, we got the point right. We got the pounding of the mochi and it's very traditional and we we maintain that it makes the news every year.
Speaker 2:Well, it's family right.
Speaker 1:So yes, yes and how about yourself? What's your favorite part about for?
Speaker 3:me like, like you just said, don, I just love the fragrance of flowers, so put kinikini is one of my favorites, so thank you for that. Um, this memory dropped into my mind. Um, when I used to dance hula, we would have a concert every four years at the blaze dale. One year we strung up um pula, melia, pula maria and we just made a um like a curtain of plumeria, but you couldn't tell it was a curtain or whatever.
Speaker 3:So just walking in, you just be hit by the aroma and the fragrance, right and then only later did you realize oh it's the whole thing is just strung up into a curtain. But I always just love that fragrance and I think because it just reminds me of like flowers, remind me of people, and I just feel like we're all like just one big lay with different kind of varieties and colors that come together to just make something so beautiful.
Speaker 1:I love that you say that, because I say that all the time.
Speaker 1:In fact, I wrote it into one of my children's books aloha, almighty, all righty and it's about a little boy, jujubu, and the chihu champion gang, his hui, his gang, and he goes out and he's trying to find a treasure. But what he does along the way is he picks up people. He sees uncle kaleo, he sees his grandpa right making the beef stew, he's, he sees a homeless girl. They become friends and he gets to the end of the day and he tells his mommy oh, I didn't find the treasure.
Speaker 2:And she goes son, it's invisible you did find the treasure it's the people you found today, because we're an ohana that's strung together as a family. I love that you say that we're all different kind of flowers, right, yeah, you know how special she is to God though. In my backyard in Hilo I've lived there for 52, 57 years of my life there's a pool of Kenny Kenny tree. I didn't know that until she found it.
Speaker 3:I went. There's a tree.
Speaker 1:Thank you again to Deeper Still Aloha for the abortion wounded and, whether you may realize it or not, you may be an abortion wounded Ohana or family. I found that out later in my life and it gave me a true compassion for my sister as well as for all of those, including even as of this last year, when that man shared with me that he was an abortion wounded father who felt he had no rights, and now I could speak into his life and encourage him.
Speaker 1:And so thank you to pastors Hitomi and Sean Nakamoto from Deeper Still Hawaii, just one of the chapters around the world, and it is in other countries as well, like China and Taiwan. Thank you, jesus, but we also have it here in America. Thank you to the founder. If you want to connect, we'll have that information again and any last thoughts that you wanted to share from the two of you.
Speaker 3:I think the only thing is just to know that the Father's heart is a heart of compassion and of mercy and of love. So if you are out there and you're dealing with something like this, like an abortion-wounded heart or abortion past, sometimes we feel like that is unforgivable, like that we aren't worthy. But just know that you are worthy and God wants nothing more than for you to come to right, alignment with him, to walk, because we see that it's not like he's just healing you from something, but he's always healing you to something. He has a purpose for your life and he's not done with you yet you didn't give up the right or you didn't miss the boat or anything like that. He always is there and ready for you, whenever you are. So, yeah, please reach out to us if there's any questions, if you just want to talk story, if you just want to know more. We just want to be here to be a resource to you all. Perfect.
Speaker 2:My wife stole my whole life. Wow To my brothers and sisters. Just know that God is a God of Aloha and no matter what you did, or how you did it, or how long ago it was, he loves you. He loves you so much that he would want you to be free and whole and flourishing in whatever stage of your life, whether you're 21 or 71. He just loves you and he wants you to be whole. So reach out to us. We're here for you, guys. We love you all, aloha.
Speaker 1:And that's where it lands. Everyone, thank you for joining us on this day when we're talking about aloha for the abortion wounded. Another thing I teach kids is aloha always wins, and you're always gonna win with the god of aloha. Thank you for joining us again. Aloha, thank you.