The Lock & Key Lounge — An ArmorText Original Podcast

Podcast#18 The Humanity Firewall

• ArmorText • Season 1 • Episode 18

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The Benefits of Developing People Skills That Are Missing From Today’s Cybersecurity Teams

Why tomorrow’s cybersecurity leaders will rise not through deeper technical mastery, but through empathy, translation, and human connection.

In this episode of The Lock & Key Lounge, host Matt Calligan explores what he calls “The Humanity Firewall,” highlighting an often-overlooked truth in cybersecurity: the most critical skill gap isn’t technical, but human. From communication breakdowns—like CISOs feeling underfunded while boards believe budgets are sufficient—to the impact of soft skills on program effectiveness, Matt makes the case that tomorrow’s cybersecurity leaders will rise not through deeper technical expertise but through trust-building, clear communication, emotional intelligence, and the ability to influence people. He’s joined by Dominique DeVaux Jeffords, Senior Manager of Cyber Resiliency at a major U.S. telecom, who brings firsthand insight into why human skills are now essential to cyber resilience.


Navroop Mitter:

Hello, this is Navroop Mitter, founder of ArmorText. I'm delighted to welcome you to this episode of The Lock & Key Lounge, where we bring you the smartest minds from legal, government, tech, and critical infrastructure to talk about groundbreaking ideas that you can apply now to strengthen your cybersecurity program and collectively keep us all safer. You can find all of our podcasts on our site, ArmorText.com, and listen to them on your favorite streaming channels. Be sure to give us feedback.

Matt Calligan:

Welcome back to The Lock & Key Lounge. I am your host today, Matt Calligan. And this episode is what I've dubbed The Humanity Firewall. And we're diving into what I think is the truth here, really, in our industry that it often—our industry often overlooks, and that is one of the critical skill gaps in cybersecurity actually isn't technical.

Matt:

It's human. It's the skill sets that we developed to make friends, to tell a good joke, be a good partner, influence others. And I would argue that the lack of emphasis in soft skills in cybersecurity actually translates into real impacts on the quality of a cybersecurity program. I saw a stat recently, 1 in 3—only 1 in 3 CISOs say their budgets are adequately funded, yet almost half of board of directors and executives think their CEOs—CISOs have plenty of money. So it really speaks to this communication gap. And this is why tomorrow's cybersecurity leaders will succeed, not through technical mastery, but through building trust, communication, social skills, the traits of the emotional intelligence—things that are necessary to lead human teams. And joining me today is someone who can actually speak to this from their own experience, Dominique DeVaux Jeffords, Senior Manager of Cyber Resiliency at actually one of the largest telecoms here in the U.S. Dominique, welcome to the show.

Dominique DeVaux Jeffords:

Thank you so much for having me, Matt. Happy to be here.

Matt:

Yeah. Absolutely. So usually at this point, I'll go through a 15‑second monologue of your bio and background, and then we'll get into the topic. But in this case, your bio is a good example of the point that we're really making here. And that is that human skills play, and can play. Or I guess maybe I'm saying it differently. There's an important role that human skills can play in a successful cybersecurity career. So if it works for you, let's—I'd like to start there. Is that okay?

Dominique:

Absolutely. That sounds good.

Matt:

So you—I was looking at your LinkedIn, and I loved it. And just kind of following through this. You started your career nearly 20 years ago, for the company you're with now, as a sales associate. Correct?

Dominique:

That's right. I was selling phones part-time in a retail store when I first started at my company.

Matt:

What? So this—from—going back all the way to there to—and then, looking at where you are today, what did that early experience teach you that you’re now pulled from in this, obviously, more technical role?

Dominique:

Oh, gosh. I mean, starting in the front line at the company that I'm now supporting from a cybersecurity perspective, I mean, it was invaluable experience because I was able to connect with customers face to face and understand different pain points, connect with them to build relationships, understand different customers' needs and how to position sales to them as well, and also offer a lot of empathy for different types of incidents or events that would happen in customers' lives. So it taught me a lot of skills—soft skills that I carry forward in my cybersecurity career today.

Matt:

Yeah. What, I mean, I can't think of—I have—I don't know any other person who started in sales and ended up in cybersecurity besides me and you, to be honest. What inspired that transition for you? Like, where did the point of, like, hey, I think cybersecurity might be something I should look into. Where did that happen?

Dominique:

Oh, gosh. Well, I mean, my career journey is really interesting. It's interesting to many people who are curious about how you get into the cybersecurity field. So I—just to give a little bit of background on how I made the transition ‘cause it wasn't overnight from part-time retail sales employee to cybersecurity senior manager. There were a lot of zigs and zags in there. And I essentially grew my career in retail and decided that I wanted to support my company from a bigger impact, bigger strategic support for my company. And so I transitioned into a communications role, actually. So, it was a communications role that was supporting all of our frontline stores. So I went from a position of just supporting my own team within my store and the customer base within that store to being able to communicate to all of the stores in the company and help influence all of the customers that enter our stores. So that was a really big leap in my impact that I was making.

Matt:

Right. But it's still a natural leap, a natural extension of sort of that sales role. Communication being kind of a critical skill you got to have in that.

Dominique:

Absolutely. Yes. And I don't stop growing. So, of course, I developed myself in that role and I grew in that role, was promoted a couple of times to a position where I was also supporting, now, training. I was supporting our customer care sites. So my scope was growing bigger and bigger. I had a team supporting all of those different audiences. And then I also did some work in employee engagement. And this was a huge growth opportunity, a really lateral growth opportunity, where I was able to do things like support DE&I for the company rewards and recognition event.

Matt:

DE&I is? Just making sure.

Dominique:

Diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Matt:

Oh, I thought you said D—okay, sorry. I thought you said D and something else, but okay.

Dominique:

Oh, yeah. No worries. So I was supporting things like events and executive support, and that is where now I'm communicating to a different audience, an executive-level audience. I was doing ghostwriting on my executive's behalf, which also gave me an opportunity to learn how executives speak to each other, to the team that I supported for communications and training. The thing—the types of communications that they wrote were around business and human-impact items. So that meant that whenever we had any sort of a cybersecurity incident, my team would write the communications for it.

Matt:

Right.

Dominique:

We have tips and tricks on how to stay cyber safe. My team was writing the communications to our care and retail locations about that. So that’s—

Matt:

Gotcha.

Dominique:

About the level of knowledge that I had around cybersecurity. And when I was ready to continue on my growth trajectory, I saw a position open in cybersecurity that was really interesting. It was a senior manager in cybersecurity for culture transformation. I've never heard of anything like that anywhere else.

Matt:

Likewise. Yeah, yeah.

Dominique:

But after being at the company for as long as I'd been, of course I am huge on our company's culture. I am a transformation person where I'm just never happy with the status quo. And I'm always looking to build and improve. And so that role really spoke to me, and I ended up landing the role. Then the impostor syndrome hit. And that's a whole nother story.

Matt:

Suddenly I was like, oh, I—this is the deep end. Okay.

Dominique:

Okay, I'm in cybersecurity now. And I really don't know a whole lot about it, actually. But they saw something in me, and maybe it was my communication skills.

Matt:

Right. Yeah. That's the—I didn't catch that transition with a communications piece when I was kind of scanning things earlier on. So that makes a lot of sense, that you having to learn sort of—you hear the technical part and go, okay, so how does that translate to let somebody on the sales floor at a branch is going to understand. Learning how to sort of play that Rosetta Stone probably gave you a good spot and/or a good perspective on the cybersecurity industry, or I guess division, in your own company. With the—with that as it is, like as you’re moving into that, did the communications—was that always something that kind of pulled you into the next role once you were inside cybersecurity? Did that seem to position you well for other of these positions as you moved in further in?

Dominique:

It absolutely did help me in my growth within the cybersecurity field and within my organization. I came into a transformation office. It was called the Cyber Transformation Office in my role, and I supported all of the teams across cybersecurity and helping them with their initiatives and making sure that they were super impactful and that all lines of business within the company were aware on how to successfully roll it out. And so I was helping my cyber team quite a bit. And I do remember a moment where I was in some sort of a tricky situation, and I wrote up an email, and it was just beautifully organized, clear, formatted, etc., and that leader—a senior director, actually—let me know later that they really appreciated how well I articulated situations. What the problem statement is, what the need or recommendation is, next steps, resources, and just being super clear and concise. It's a very good skill set to have so that you can essentially accomplish what your recommendations are. If you are trying to drive home a recommendation, and you're unable to articulate it in a way that makes sense and has a clear path forward, then you're just not going to get that buy-in.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah. So why, I mean—and this is not you speaking as a—as within your current role—but just obviously you've been in this industry, so you've had industry experience. You've got a good perspective on it by now. When I'm talking to folks—CISOs and managers and things like that over cybersecurity programs, they'll talk about somebody on their team who's a real people person. It's like they found this unicorn, and they're like, oh, she's really good at just talking to people about this thing. Like, no—like as if that is something that's just lacking and never before been seen. So that's what prompted—obviously we've worked together, and I saw your background, and it's—my brain has been spinning on this for a while and certainly have my own opinions. But why, from your perspective, having worked in this very technical area for as long as you have, with your background, why do you think it is that cyber, as a field, as an industry, or practice, seems to lack any focus on soft skills as a priority currently, as it stands?

Dominique:

That's a really interesting question. And I do think that it is rooted in the fact that cybersecurity is such an engineering and IT organization that, obviously, the people who are hands on keyboard, doing their command prompts and all of their end mapping and keep PCAP in, that they're doing the defensive work of the company, and that is absolutely valued. And there is perhaps perceived less value on people who don't have all of those technical skills while you're in a technical department. But on the flip side, I have seen how successful people are when they come into the organization with a brand-new perspective and different sets of skills. And all that's doing is just layering and adding different skill sets to collaborate together to create bigger impacts. And so there is absolutely a need for soft skills to be a part of the solution. And I think engineers are absolutely brilliant. I've taken technical training so that I can essentially go toe to toe in conversations. And I’m a respected leader within cybersecurity because I do understand—

Matt:

You got the chops.

Dominique:

A lot of technical things. But I've had to catch up in that space. And I think that’s okay. I think that's okay for people if you want to make a career transition and you are bringing strong soft skills and you have a lot of experience at the company and you know your business. I think you can transition into cybersecurity, and you can be successful. And you can catch up on the technical knowledge. And I'll tell you, I think I learned the most outside of formal trainings just by working alongside my peers and being a good communicator, asking questions—asking any question that I might have. I would be vulnerable. It’s okay. And find people that you feel safe with to ask questions and maybe start there. Yeah.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, that's something that—I've come from a completely non-technical background personally. Not even in IT. Originally it was in finance and that side of the house, and as I was—as I could see sort of my own career kind of landing in cybersecurity, I started—I was like, well, yeah, especially the first couple days I was officially in a role within that industry, I was kind of freaking out because I was like, I have no idea what these words mean. I don't know. How am I going to keep up with this? How am I going to have any ability to relate with these people that have been doing this for so long and are so good at this for so long? But what I found is that if you're genuinely curious and you want to learn, and you approach that from that perspective—sort of, if you want to call it humility or just sort of an emphasis on getting better yourself. I've found that cybersecurity as an industry, culturally, is—are some of the most accommodating people. I mean, they're happy to find somebody else who is eager to learn everything that they've got in their brain and stuff like that. And so I don't know if you found that yourself, but I've been actually impressed by that. And just as a general observation.

Dominique:

That is very true. I think curiosity is something that is a common denominator with people who enter the cybersecurity space. Because you have to have a curious nature about you if you want to assume what the next threat is that your customers will be faced with, or your company, and…

Matt:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can't stay siloed. You can't ossify. You've got to be learning all the time.

Dominique:

Absolutely. And there have been so many times that I have had and found engineers who are also really good communicators, who have been able to explain how things work to me in a way that I can understand, and I really appreciate that. And I have just learned from osmosis so much from my cybersecurity team.

Matt:

Have you seen any consequences, kind of the flip side of that, when there is an imbalance and someone—with someone who maybe doesn't have the skills, or a lack of those skills, in whatever interaction there is—has—I guess—have you seen consequences of that personally, where the inverse is happening, where somebody doesn't have the soft skills, and can't really translate what they're trying to say?

Dominique:

Oh yes. I think consequences of being not great at communicating or having a lack of communication, it's—you can tarnish relationships if you are not coming off as being amicable or friendly, or if you're not asking for help in the right way, it can rub people the wrong way, especially in writing. In writing— It's so easy to take things in a different way than maybe how someone intended. And of course, things like Copilot is helping folks write better emails and all, but not only can it tarnish relationships or rub people the wrong way, which then ultimately creates silos, having lack of collaboration now because maybe people aren't getting along. But also it can completely stall work. It can slow down work. So if I had it—something that I was—an initiative that I was trying to get off the ground, but I'm not communicating it to the right people, I'm not communicating it in the right way, based on the audience that I'm asking for alignment and approval, then it's not going to get it aligned and approved. And so I'm not going to be able to move forward—

Matt:

Not gonna get that buy-in, essentially.

Dominique:

I’m not going to get that buy-in for that initiative. And then, of course, if there's lack of communication, there's also other things like now people are doing redundant work. Maybe there's two or more teams who are trying to do the same task or aren't—I can only imagine how it can impact going through an event or an incident if you're not communicating properly. There's a lot that could go wrong there.

Matt:

Yeah. What are—so we talked about—we talked a lot—I mentioned, I should say, in the beginning that—the stat about only 1 in 3 CISOs think they have the appropriate amount of money for their program. And yet executives are completely disconnected from that. Is there, even at a leadership level—I mean, you—you’ve, obviously, you're not at—you're not in the C-suite currently, but you're working with those folks, and you're seeing them move something forward, take stuff from you, take things from your team, and advance it upwards into kind of this decision-making level. Do you see, or have you kind of experienced, that disconnect? Not necessarily inside your organization, but just across the industry with people you're interacting with. Have you seen any kind of evidence yourself, personally, of that kind of a disconnect? And if so, what—do you see them still making those same mistakes that we talk about as far as bad communication? And I hesitate to call it a mistake, but just sort of that lack of skill, even at that level of this—of cybersecurity.

Dominique:

Yes. I have seen it over time. And I think it was harder years ago to get buy-in from, say, the board, to proceed in cyber investments, or other SLT members maybe not believing and needing investments in that space. Our current chief security officer is really good at communicating with his peers and the board, cybersecurity threats and making them tangible and how they will impact the business. So my team, one of my teams is the cyber resiliency team. And that—the work that we are doing to prepare my company for some sort of a catastrophic cyberattack event. And in order to prepare, we have to invest in this space. And some architecture. And so we position it to our board and other SLT leaders that this is a—there's a business need here. So we create a business case. And it's articulated in that way as a business case, not just a here's where we're at technically. And here's the technical solution. And then just leave it at that. There needs to be a business case behind it so that executives can understand what the investment is needed for. And they will be bought in when they get it.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah. With cybersecurity leaders, are there—through—from, again, as you're kind of moving your way forward inside of this and seeing folks ahead of you, like your CISO and others, emulate this better. Are there practical steps, I guess, that folks in your role, or maybe folks that are not feeling like they have the soft skills—they got the technical stuff, but the soft skills aren't there—are there practical steps that those folks can take to communicate more effectively? Like, dare I say it, is there a place where cybersecurity folks could learn some sales skills?

Dominique:

Yes, I do think so. And I mean, some practical steps that cyber leaders can take, I would say, is to just simplify. Simplify some of the complex risks and solutions so that you can have an actual discussion around it without using so much jargon. And, while you're at it, make sure to have that business impact lens as a part of the need that you're articulating for whatever you're trying to achieve. So the business need—that means that you can share financial impacts, operational impacts. If you don't have this recommendation in place—and using storytelling as well is really effective in explaining a situation and pulling on recent things in the news, like an AWS outage or Azure outage. And we think about how does this thing that happened in the news, how does it play out and impact our company? For reliant on third-party companies, then we need to talk about this and solution around it.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah.

Dominique:

And so, using examples that other people in different organizations or leadership, where they can think, oh, yes, I saw that in the news, that was bad. And then you can point to that and explain how that could impact your company and what your recommendation is to do about it. Then it will be more effective in getting buy-in.

Matt:

Yeah. There's a lot of talk recently, more and more, that AI is going to basically put a lot of cyber analysts out of jobs and sort of transform that. I personally think that AI is going to drive an awareness. If nothing else, AI will drive an awareness of the importance of being able to manage humans and the real routine stuff. Yeah, it’s—it might be useful in those, but I don't think it's going to put cybersecurity folks out of jobs. It's just going to put them in a position where they have to become managers of people and information in—at a high level—to have—more strategic than tactical and in the details. How do you see that? I mean, from your perspective, how do you see the role of cyber and human skills evolving, with AI maybe being disruptive in the way it is?

Dominique:

Yeah, AI is truly a game changer. I mean, on every level, I think, as we're seeing, and definitely in the cybersecurity field, it is so interesting to see how we are able to use AI for a lot of technical work that we have been doing manually, and by essentially automating or being able to parse through data super fast, it does free up time for the humans now to focus on other things. Now, of course, we're always going to need to have oversight of AI, especially as we come—we become more reliant on the AI solutions that we're creating to make our jobs more efficient. We still need that human oversight. And that's why I agree that there will—the future of cybersecurity will still include humans and not just AI bot. But AI bot is going to be great at doing things like detections and triaging and pattern recognition and all. And our—and then the cybersecurity humans, like I said, doing the oversight of AI, but also managing the strategy, managing how we influence across the enterprise, and creating empathy for our customers.

Matt:

Yeah. Yeah, oh, and translating. I mean, AI can—something that's the—as far as the job it's supposed to do from an AI standpoint, with that pattern recognition and things like that, you're still going to have to be somebody that understands the business impact and knows how to sort of parse between and translate the technical stuff coming out of these AI results in a way that connects to the business priorities at a much higher level.

Dominique:

Absolutely.

Matt:

Yeah. So we talked a little bit about what you've seen at executive levels, higher up in sort of areas that might broadly could be focused on more for soft skills, or could be useful for soft skills. But if you're somebody who's just in cyber, and actually is in one of those very analyst roles—a SoC analyst or a threat hunter, those kinds of roles—what would you tell them as they're like, hey, I might want to kind of bone up on the soft skills side of things, where would somebody start if they were doing that from your perspective?

Dominique:

Yeah, that's a great question. And I think it actually starts with doing a bit more listening, seeking to understand situations. In the technical space, it's oftentimes one plus one equals two. And in—on the human side of things, in order to gain influence and buy-in and all, you need to understand the other perspectives at hand here and the full situation. So that's a really great starting point, is just to listen and seek to understand before jumping in. Another recommendation I have would be to explore other areas within your cybersecurity organization. So, doing some sort of like cross-functional projects that help you to learn a new space and then articulate it back through communications, it's going to gain you more practice and also lateral knowledge in a new space.

Matt:

Yeah.

Dominique:

Also, I would not put communication as something to practice on the back burner. This is, as we've been talking about today, it's so critical for anyone in their role to essentially articulate the value of the work that you're providing, articulate your proposals so that you can get that buy-in and actually do that thing that you're working really hard towards. It's so important to practice your communication. And you can even do that on the side using AI. You can absolutely use Copilot or your AI choice to ask—give it different prompts like, here is my status presentation deck for this project. Help me put this into an executive briefing, or how would I organize this to communicate it to my leadership? Just give it different prompts like that, or how can I articulate this status update into an email that I sent out? And you can learn from the AI, whatever recommendations it spits out. I mean, at this point in time, by all means, don't just hit send quite yet. Here's that human communication factor again. Jump in and make appropriate changes. Of course, make it not sound like a robot. I think it's totally okay to get the feeling of, hmm, this person might have used AI to write this email, but I can tell when someone took the time to edit and refine. I actually appreciate that a lot when someone is both using the technology to help their communication and also refining it to make it more humanized.

Matt:

Yeah, I think the clearest indication that you may have swung too far to the technical side is when you need a robot to teach you how to be more human. So that's—if you have to use AI, then you might—you could definitely focus on a different set of skills for a bit. Do you—I mean, as far as cybersecurity training, is there actually a spot in the training for soft skills? Do you think there should be soft—emotional intelligence 101 insight next to the CISSP or something like that, I guess. Is there a place for that, or is this more something that you should sort of pick up on your own outside of the regular work?

Dominique:

Yeah, that's a very interesting question. I think outside of—I don't know—not many people have a whole lot of time to go back and just take a communications degree in university.

Matt:

Go back to college.

Dominique:

And so today, I have—you're right. I don't see trainings alongside technical trainings that support bettering your communication skills. There are different certification programs, such as the Certified Information Security Manager cert. That is one that I have achieved myself, and that is helpful a bit in talking about how to position things to get buy-in to your C-suite and your board. So there's—there is a little bit out there, but I think that we can do more. I think that having a generalized Toastmasters, which is—I've heard great things about it.

Matt:

I've done Toastmasters, yeah. Yeah, I—it's pretty neat.

Dominique:

I've heard amazing things. But maybe there should be something more specific to technical Toastmasters.

Matt:

Yeah.

Dominique:

I think that would be brilliant. Ooh, I'm going to write that down.

Matt:

There it is. That's the next business.

Dominique:

Technical Toastmasters. I coined it first.

Matt:

You heard it here first, folks. All right. So, to put the rubber to the road here. You obviously work for a very large telecom here in the U.S. I would imagine you—Salt Typhoon probably was something that you had to pay a little attention to. So, while you were in the midst of that and sort of watching that go on and obviously playing your own role—and clearly, if there's any in—any scenario that requires technical skills, that remediation and all the processes around that—did you see examples personally where soft skills made coordinating and responding to that threat more effective?

Dominique:

Absolutely. I definitely witnessed that the folks who coordinated through Salt Typhoon activity, they did a beautiful job in communicating and providing status updates and going between the different groups who needed to receive communications. And these people have a—in these positions—a sense of calm to them and clarity when they're under stress. And that was really like—I love to see that when leaders can just calmly and confidently walk their teams through an event, and the team feel supported, they feel less stressed, and they are more effective and have clarity on the tasks that they need to take. And so communication has definitely—yeah, I've seen it help response—the different incident response—and make it more effective.

Matt:

Yeah. Well, I think the ability to communicate—ArmorText being a communication platform—we got that. We do a lot of threat-sharing communities and stuff. And we always pound on trust. And obviously, we're providing a technical piece to that. But the ability to communicate to someone else, by itself, effectively communicating builds trust like it's you… If someone is able to talk to me in a language I understand, I instantly—it's easier to trust and build rapport with that person. So the more ability you have on the steel and under skill set to communicate, the more you can facilitate trust. And trust creates speed, ‘cause you don't have that cynicism or fear or hesitancy to overcome. You can just execute and make decisions. Did you—have you seen that on your side at all?

Dominique:

Yes, yes, I absolutely have. I think having good communication and staying in close communication, especially during times when you're collaborating together through something, that is absolutely what builds trust and builds the relationship. And we have to remember that in any given project, event, incident, how we treat our people when we work together, how we're communicating to our people in the long term. No project is worth having poor communication and burning any bridges or tarnishing relationships. The goal is always to have a respectful partnership where you have shared trust, and you're going to be able to continue to work together forevermore beyond that one project.

Matt:

Yeah, yeah. All right. So, with that context here, let's go back to the—I—this is my final question. We always wrap up with these. So, it is the night of—you just got confirmation that your efforts were successful in addressing the Salt Typhoon threat. What is the libation of choice that you pour yourself to celebrate?

Dominique:

The libation of choice.

Matt:

Yes. Yeah..

Dominique:

Yes, well, anyone who knows me knows that I am—I'm drinking coffee usually throughout the day. But then the second half of the day—

Matt:

Got to have caffeine.

Dominique:

My drink of choice is a Coke Zero. And I'm sure I’d pour myself one of those to celebrate.

Matt:

There you go. There you go. Yeah. Caffeine is always—I mean, when in doubt, just add more caffeine. That's been my motto everywhere I go. Well, Dominique, I do appreciate our time today. Thanks for taking the moment and working with my crazy schedule. For those listening, we had to reschedule this a number of times. It was entirely my fault. So, Dominique, thank you for that. It was great having you on today.

Dominique:

Oh, thank you so much again for having me, Matt. It was my pleasure.

Matt:

And thanks—thank you, folks, for joining us on the latest episode of The Lock & Key Lounge for this conversation around the humanity firewall, or maybe how we can get through that humanity firewall if we all kind of push. So, if today showed us anything, it's that the future of cybersecurity shouldn't be defined by who knows the most about a technical part of something. It's going to be defined by who can connect, who can communicate, who can bring humans together, lead them forward, influence them in the right directions. So, until next time, be well, stay curious. Do good work. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of The Lock & Key Lounge. If you're a cybersecurity expert or you have a unique insight or point of view on the topic—and we know you do—we'd love to hear from you. Please email us at lounge@armortext.com or our website, armortext.com/podcast. I'm Matt Calligan, Director of Revenue Operations here at ArmorText, inviting you back here next time, where you'll get live, unenciphered, unfiltered, stirred—never shaken—insights into the latest cybersecurity concepts.