And so in that leadership and men acting like other men with permission, that leader is exposing his vulnerability, his failures, reflection on failure, the health to it, because most men don't know how to fail. They feel judged and they're stuck in performance.

I open up conversation to your point the other night. We talked about masturbation. We talked about Right that was exposed right right right to continue to wake up with an infant and just another guy got called out in a relationship

Exposed some stuff that had twisted and turned and made him fail forever and this dad third time dad Been in prison spoke into his life. It was it was rich. It was deep. It was not sexy It was not orderly it was hard, but there was really good fruit and outcome from the vulnerability So we circle up to have vulnerability well Masturbation I got to do it for a little bit. want it. This is a great time to tell you guys. I actually got

And you guys might have too, a number of messages about the first recording. Great stuff too. I posted, you guys, I gotta go check out the Get Canceled Facebook page that Tiffany created. Get on there.

We're going to be posting links recently. I posted a YouTube iTunes link YouTube iTunes Spotify and YouTube link So we're going to be sharing that we want you guys to see it. Give us feedback Tell us what you think we're going to mold this thing unless we think we don't agree with you then we're not going to but we're gonna mold this thing for what people want to hear I tell you People want to hear some stuff I want to give you guys a specific message and I don't know that we want

direction but I told you guys when you get on here you just never know what you're gonna hear masturbation was a thing boys I'll tell you a specific one I got and this one's gonna this one's gonna be fun for you because I'll tell you who these people are after because you'll probably see him tonight but it was real it was real and I am you and I

You know, not gonna today, we're not gonna bring condemnation or judgment upon masturbation. So don't get weird, don't get weird. No, we're not gonna do that. But we do gotta talk about this thing because for men, it's a weird place. So here's the message I got. Hey, we actually loved the last episode and I'm kind of scared about the masturbation one because I'm actually okay when my

Husband is engaged in that as long as He uses only the material that I've given him I Said okay That's fair in the natural right? We're gonna talk about Multiple levels on this podcast all the time and when we refer to the natural We're gonna be talking about our human or just our human brain our human intellect our human Feelings heart mind and all that very normal to be in the now

We all operate in the natural a lot. But we're gonna actually be challenging not only ourselves, me, Kellan, Thad, and Tiffany, who you can't see, into a place to where we're gonna begin to try to think spiritually about it, right? How do we think spiritually? How do we move into the spiritual on a topic? And that's gonna be tough for people to understand, and we're gonna go to great lengths to try to explain it to people all the time, because I don't expect for people just to go, how to do that, because I'm challenged with that too, because your natural...

wants to just take over and certain personalities are going to be harder than others. Mine wants to be logic and you accuse me this all the time. So does Cory. I'm the type of mind and the natural what I like to do is I'm based with a problem. I'm already running analytics. I'm already running probable cause and then I'm running probable result. And then it's like if you guys have ever seen it in a movie to where, okay, in Avengers, that you might remember this, where Dr. Strange is giving them

Probable result based upon what they're gonna do and it just gives them a report Those are your that's what my brain does and I'm gonna look to grab on to the highest percentage of the result that my narrative would like and so I want this to go to you Kellen because We have similar thought processes on this. I like the way you explain it though bit what she asked specifically is Am I wrong for this? She's not even talking about him

She's saying, I wrong for being okay with him just doing that at times to where maybe we're in a rut or whatever. They have a healthy relationship. And healthy physically and in a lot of ways, which we're all trying to learn about constantly. But I thought it was interesting that she had enough feeling, engagement in the relationship to feel that. You know what I mean? 100%. And I think when you talk about it.

there's something emotionally happening. I think that's the first thing we have to acknowledge. When you say masturbation, why are emotions coming out? If it's not a bad thing, no matter how we frame it, why does it make everybody step back or get emotional? It's the first thing to really think through. The other thing on emotions really quick before we dive specifically into the action is emotions can be a really good communicator. They're great at awareness regardless. You need to reflect on them. They're a terrible master.

Women need value. so, know, of a visual thing, right? Well, but what I heard from her, as long as, let's take it to you, Brian, as long as Brian X, well, why does it matter how Brian does it? Well, because you don't want your value tarnished. And so for the man, if we're talking to the man, do you want the woman that you're with to feel less valuable? Correct. And then the second question is why do you need to do it? Well, and this is a tricky one, and I wanted you to answer this because I see you...

Thad too. I want to get you in on this too because I think we both see you as a virtuous person My issue with this and what my answer goes to on this you've heard me talk about this because I'm guilty I've been guilty you've been guilty that's been guilty So men don't get weird on this and wives partners Don't get weird on this for us help us help us on this because When I have this conversation about as long as he's using the material I've provided

Okay, fair, also, committed. Cool, understand it. What people have to understand is do you understand how hard it is for someone to be focused in that arena and have that kind of control? It's darn near impossible. And so on the surface, in the natural, saying as long as he can only focus on what I've provided him, to me in my natural mind, thinks okay, that's the same as me and you being together.

but it's not that simple. the debate we've been having lately with some people that we know is, if you can control your mind in such a way to where all you ever think about is your spouse, okay, you're gonna have a hard time getting me to just bite you on that. I may go, look, if you're that level, I don't know that I'm 100 % in agreement with the result.

but I also don't have enough to actually pull you down out of that. My question on that.

Why do I need to justify it? Why is that my go-to when it's brought? Why am I justifying anything if it's perfectly fine? Now, I'll just be truthful with you. I loved Jesus, found God, God changed my life at 22 before that. I had multiple sexual partners. My mind remembers that. so, yeah, it would be like going to war to focus on that as a-

make sure my mind stayed there. I can't imagine the focus. mean we joke a little bit in this in this arena. Today I'm not going to go down as much of the joke. I I might hit Chandler this thing a little bit because I get weird and tough spots but I want to keep this one kind of in that in that vein of this is a pretty serious subject because of what you just said. The reality is is we likely don't have the willpower to keep ourselves out of memory right?

I want to bring you in on this one because like I said I

So here's the deal look that says bad words. Okay, he says bad words, know You're gonna get a little giggle out of that here and there if you you make a fart noise or if you say the word penis or something, but He was you were children to you. I worked with ice probably just everything High school kids. That's awesome because this this right here this route this temptation

Give us your perspective on 13, 14, 15 year old boy, hey parents, even if you think it's not, it is, right? Well at 13, 14 you're probably...

Okay, rather than we can see anything your friend that was like my friend's wife is cool if he masturbates to her material to the wife, right so When it starts in adolescence, it's 100 % not about that. It's 100 % more about

So to give you perspective on that, because you're young, Kellan and I are at an age now to where when we were there, that wasn't a thing for us. It was old school stuff. And here's where a Chandler moment for you boys. I'll make just a hair of a joke. When we used to see stuff, we called that squiggly hoots. Do you guys know what squiggly hoots is? Squiggly hoots is when you may have basic cable, but if you hit channel 99.

late at night is squiggly, right? And every once in a while, every 30 or 40 seconds, that sucker would freeze up for like two seconds and then back. That's when you couldn't afford HBO and all these. That was called squiggly hoops. That's the, in the joking way as I can make it is that's what we got that. We did not have internet stuff till later really. AOL did, dude AOL, it just wasn't.

Chatrooms became a thing but again, that's not it wasn't that visual it was typing so there was some weird there But the visual that these kids deal with today. it's dude. There's a house in Fox News There's ads everywhere and it's it's visual I want you to tell us a little bit about what is that fight because I? Can't imagine that I can't imagine

15 to 18 channels 15 and 18 It wasn't and that's what's what's weird that you remember the channels. That's fine. I do it's fine Well because it was for you very good. I'm very I don't we do it feel great Not only was my eyes seeing something that my eyes mean, that's that's what we need to talk about as men our eyes one if we don't if we don't learn how to tell our physical self and all of its desires with the natural

or food or anything, something that it likes that's not good for us, it'll consume us. And we don't have the mind to do anything about that in our teens, our early teens when our hormones are crazy, but it was also off limits. And so the second that everybody's asleep, man, it's not right to do, my eyes love it, like it's self gratifying. And then I remember knowing it was wrong because in men, and this is where you can get, we'll get back into the marriage bed or the relationship.

second that the act happens there's a chemical change in your body all those desires are stripped gone sometimes you're half tired and even as a young boy I remember feeling terrible when I would do it like it not being able to control myself but then terrible immediate guilt right are we right because you go from thinking with remember with the penis and you you're blank you're

Your blood starts to flow back into your brain. You're like, damn, that You kind of come back. Your judgment comes back. Well, guys, that's the same thing. I mean, you just said something cool. And you were talking about that is immediately after that event, shame is like immediately on your heart. Guys, it's the same as if you're out having a relationship physically outside of marriage. It's the same feeling, right? You've been there. I've been there.

Thad was probably like twice a virgin when he got married, still like, can you be twice a virgin? Can you even do that? If you can't, Thad did. It was like, what is that? It's like you're a virgin, but the virgin part of you is also a virgin. So that's twice a virgin. But my thought on this is like, when you're out in relationship physically outside of marriage, which we've dealt with, and know, restoration still comes. Don't get weird on this, people.

Just because you have had sex outside of marriage doesn't mean you're done. There's a lot left. But what I want to talk about is upon finishing that circumstance, shame's there, especially if you're paying attention. If you have a heart after the Lord and you are striving to be good in a lot of ways, you're going to identify shame right away. If you're not in alignment with

or even caring about that, it feels a little bit more like justified guilt. What it feels like, because I've been there, what it feels like is you still kind of feel guilty from it because you know it probably wasn't a great decision, but you're able to justify it. You're able like, well, you know, I've got to do it, I'm a man, I want to do this, she's in this, and you live that way. But when you begin to get aligned with spiritually, you're still going to make a mistake. It feels like shame.

But, and tell us a little bit, Kellen, because I want people to hear this. Shame's not from God, right? No, no, God will convict you and talk to you to help you move away to protect your heart from the action that's hurting the rest of you. Where the world lies is that we're just flesh. They say, because I deal with different things with those hookups, they're called soul ties, but the world says, hey, this is just a sexual act and it's only physical. It's not.

We are much more than just a physical body. And so when I talk to people, it's the realization of that. But it's also the realization that when God convicts us to move us away from an action to protect the rest of us, the real part of us that sees, the soul, the spirit. Now, when I talk to guys, and I love opening this can up, about porn, we get hyper-focused on porn, masturbation, on alcohol, on the action.

There's always something underlining it. Like I talked about the forbidden or being mad at ourselves for going back to something we knew wasn't right. Like what is there, right? I helped them understand the shame cycle. Because shame is not from God, what the enemy is actually doing is keeping us hyper-focused on what just happened. So, Thad, like you said, there's blood in a different place. We're not thinking with our head, which will come back to the relationship. if we already, in all these other scenarios, if it was never good, how is it okay now? Because we have the same dump.

where we're like, well, now I think different, right? And every male knows what I'm talking about. And so now I'm led by that, my chemical changes, now I feel shame, so I'm gonna focus on don't watch porn, don't masturbate, don't watch porn, whatever I'm telling myself.

And all I'm doing is staying in a cycle of thinking about the same thing and it's running my life. So what I help men do is focus on their identity, give back to identity the things they should be doing and move away from the action. When it starts, they're like, man, this doesn't have the teeth and the hole that it had on me, right? No, you've made it a giant in your life. Gal, you said something big. And what's going to be cool about this conversation, guys, is that all the feedback I got was, wow, you guys.

touching on some weird stuff also At the end when we were still talking people thought that we left the the rig on we didn't that was on purpose But don't worry today. We're gonna do it that way still but we're gonna add some music at the end So, you know that we're tapering it off, but we're gonna open up We're gonna be talking and we're gonna be talking when we end this is on purpose because we want this to be a conversation It's not a show. It's not a show. It's a conversation and we're pick up and leave off and so

We'll do it on purpose, when we enter, you'll hear music. When we end, you'll hear music. You'll know we're done. But you said soul ties. Golly, dude. am out in the world talking to people. Soul ties is one of those terms that people don't understand. They don't get what's a soul tie. And the unfortunate part, and I'm sure you had to deal with this, that, dealing with teenagers, when you get physical with somebody,

and you go through a sexual act, whether you like it or not, and this doesn't even have to be spiritual guides, this is a scientific thing. I've heard many people talk about this that would not even be in a belief system like ours and say, yeah, you've just connected on a different level. There's songs written about

Kid Rock wrote a song with Sheryl Crow. It's about the first love. No, you had sex and it was just something physical. But now you're married with another woman and your mind continues to draw back to this one person and you can't tell yourself why you just can't get over it. Because it was never skin deep. The lie is it's just skin deep. You know, we forgot to Facebook Live this, but I would, I mean, so we can get questions, but soul ties. I love Kid Rock, by the way. You like Kid Rock?

Get out of here. He likes to smash it. Get out of here. Come I'm pretty easy with my...

old-school cool I like Kid Rock but soul ties I don't think people understand the level of power they're dealing with early enough to prevent them from creating one does that make sense

kids, I want go back over, you were talking about something really important for parents, when you have these kids, the conversations and the kind of conversations and the wide matter. So don't just tell your kid, this is the worst advice, don't do that. They need to understand when their eyes, that makes you more curious, right? Kevin, I want to rely on you everything. Yeah. Right? But it's to start teaching your kids that you're more than skin deep.

You have an incredible identity, have value, have a heart, you have a soul. And so, like when you make these decisions, that's what it's impacting. And it doesn't just rub off. Right, and I think going to the soul type thing, in terms of masturbation, terms of performing that act, especially just in men, it's one of those deals where

looking at a screen I feel personally that doing that looking at a screen makes you more addicted to the screen then later on in life you're looking at a screen eight ten hours a day because you're at work I look at screen all day long I look at my computer screens all day but you're looking at a screen all day long you're addicted to what's on the screen

which is therefore taking you away from what's real and you get married. Did you get your haircut for this today? Not for this, but it had been scheduled for six months. I just noticed looking over it, you got a freaking just cut line there all sharp up, but your glasses match your t-shirt. is going on right now? Sorry, You're good. Not a big deal. So you're addicted to the screen.

which pulls you away from real intimacy with your wife. And it's a dilutes, Yeah. You're talking about it dilutes this because you're like, well, cool. I can, you know, release my, whether it be sexual desire on exactly what you want, it's going to faster. You miss this connection with your spouse. It's a, Hey, we've had a really crappy day. just need to look at my phone and get it done for 20 minutes.

And you're already so addicted to it as a man who just looked at porn and masturbated for forever and become attached to it. it's like, we've had this is part of my hand. now that we've had men tell us that they've gotten to this place in their life where it's almost like a medication. I don't know if that's the right word, but it's this, it's a treatment to, can't sleep. It's a treatment to stress. that's, that's wild to think about because

Do you know how much you have to do something for it to become a treatment? Think about that. That's not a one time thing. You've conditioned your body to be craving or requesting something from you so much. It's like cigarettes. It's like dipping. It's like overeating. You have to condition your body. No one just wakes up one day at 21 years old and goes, man, I need to smoke a cigarette.

You trained your body to crave it. Nor do they taste good the first time. Alcohol either. It's interesting. What we say when we meet with men is what you feed grows when you starve nice. And there's no true thing. Which you could use in a lot of areas, right? Well, and you move past it. It's, you know, as we get back, like it's going to come full circle to the woman that's in a relationship or married, that question, is it okay? Why does it happen?

Yeah, why does it have to happen because I can tell you I'll be real ball. I have a porn problem When I first found God like had to address it because I was exposed to point at nine years old There's something deeper there, right and just some different things which is a lot of stories man But I can tell you at 40 and this will just be I mean we you know We talk about like what we would talk about when we circle up. These are the things we would say

go take care of myself and be good for anybody for at least three hours at least and so if my wife wants value or wants to connect I've got nothing there for her. I don't have the same drive whatsoever. Right and it's kind of going back to your point it's the grass is greener where you water it yeah and if you're watering it to your phone well the grass is always going to be greener on the phone than at your house if you're watering on your and easier because it's like click click click

I got what want. It's into gratification. Let's answer this question because I want both of you guys to volley this one. Let's pull the spiritual out of this real quick. We're not going to do that very often. We're actually usually going to do the opposite, but you're going to hear this one a lot too. But the science, the books, the doctor says that it's healthy. This release is healthy. Okay. Yeah. Scientifically, you probably, it might be due to the human.

body it might be, let's dig in a little bit because again I want to remind people we're not here to bring condemnation on what's going on. We're here to bring clarification on hey we're dealing with it too. We all deal with this. How can we bring ourselves to a place to where we're honoring God with our bodies and our actions and the crazy thing about this conversation is and I'll go first, I'm wildly guilty in my life.

missing the mark. Kellen, you talk a lot about, well, dude, in your group with Band of Brothers, you have to be wildly authentic, or they're gonna check out. Everybody does. What's, and Thad, you tell me, double version, what is your response, or what is the level of, what are you gonna try to tell someone that's like, hey, this is healthy, this is normal, this is healthy, okay?

Well, you know, where do you go with that?

fantasizing and creating unrealistic expectations for a future partner.

I don't know, I'm not saving my approval on this.

When somebody asks me that, and they say, I would say to who? And then they're on their heels. Why? Like why are you so passionate about this thing? Why are you so embarrassed? And why are you so driven to prove that it's okay? Nowhere in life where something's actually healthy do those emotions come out. And those emotions, and I tell guys this whole time, because guys don't know how to process emotions, none of us do until we're taught because nobody taught us. We have a great array of emotions.

Nobody cared to teach men how to use them right? Right. Guys be tough. Be strong. Even numb anger. That's where we usually sit. Which is why we don't recognize trauma at that is because we're just designed to be hunters in- Stay hard. Stay hard, Goggins. Cut that out. Stay hard, Goggins. Got it. It's a weird way to get- you're right. Funny. Chandler. But- It's like a thing though. I think of this too tough. I wouldn't have recognized trauma-

a couple years ago. I would have said, yeah, bad things happen to everybody, be tougher. And that's you protecting yourself. It really is. And this soul tie conversation is so important because I don't know that we're ever going to eliminate people from having them. What we've got to get to though, as men around other men who make mistakes and want to be better, is how do we talk men through what the soul tie is going to strategize in their life against them? And how do we combat the soul tie?

I don't know how super awesome your time was. By the way, get, I talked to a guy too, if it's okay, why do you go hide when you masturbate? Or do it with the lights are off at night. Any of it, it's going to come up, but you're using your time and your time moving forward is different, right? Because you don't, you don't have the energy or the thought process you had before you went and dumped your buildup or whatever we want to call it, right?

You're also run different the rest of the day the more you give into it the more you listen to yourself Like you don't have perspective the other there's physical response to this you touched on it wall ago There is physical you have a family. That's where I like to go like we're just talking with men and I frame this different ways Okay, you have a family right? Yeah, and it's gonna be tough because you've allocated the type of energy that is completely built like a

It's like a adrenaline rush, right? I'm not a doctor, I don't know the scientific words, but I equate it to similar as an adrenaline rush. Well, after an adrenaline dump, when you are done, there's a physical response to this that the mental follows. Well, even before, like if you're pent up or you had a bad day and you've created that as an outlet.

You're hanging out with your son and your daughter and you're sitting there thinking, I gotta get one on. Like you're not fully present. Same thing with a soul tie by the way. When I'm connecting with somebody and my mind's lingering back to somebody else, I don't feel great about it because I'm not fully present. It strips us from the presence and the gift that we have to give another person and any wisdom to follow because we are not in that moment. We are somewhere else with something we need to give what? Our flesh.

We need to it to ourselves. You could be in the working environment. You could be an environment where you need to be getting stuff done for kids, family, wife, but your mind is being controlled somewhere else and you don't have power over it. have power over it. And I just want to add really quick searches here. Matthew 5, 27, 28. You've heard it said, do not commit adultery. I tell you, anyone who looks at a woman less

you want something you can't let me tell you something was crushing I don't want people to hear this it was insane I met with a man and he was in deep depression and suicidal thought I went to pray for him and I asked for some forgiveness like I could sense unforgiveness so I through a forgiveness model and an ex-wife and they made a video

And so he'd accomplished, like get into this moment, he'd accomplished everything that this other husband said that he's doing, fully focusing on his wife. And he had a video to do it to with just them, right? Right, wrong, you can debate it forever. This dude was so deathly afraid of deleting that video because he could no longer control the need to watch a video, go back to your screen, think that, and have an outlet. He'd masturbated to that video so many times.

He was shaking scared to believe it. And that's where this conversation really goes for a lot of guys when they bring it up if we get honest. I've seen men shake and tremble physically and put their head down. Strong men, so much shame over what they've done alone. Because of it, it's because of their addiction. Their addiction and their salt tie to the screen, to the video, to the images, to the Playboy magazine, whatever. It's the addiction. And at the root of this, it's addiction to love.

put you in so much trauma, physical, mental, sexual, that you're not free of them. It's these things that can be aggression, can be something you've done, you're not forgiving yourself from. Those can attach deeper than skin deep, and they're the things that we carry everywhere we go. And oftentimes, when we beat ourselves up because we're not our best self, when we enter a difficult situation, it's because we're actually carrying all those things on top of what's right in front of us into that conversation. We're not free.

When we get back into the spiritual, we've been in the natural for a little bit talking about, it's real. No one's debating how the science addresses this. But let's get back into the spiritual real quick on this since, Thad, you steered us in there with what the word says. In the spiritual, what is happening with these roots, with these old memories, these temptations, these old mistakes, is the enemy now, that's what he uses. The enemy can only use,

what has been made available to him. if you don't, or you're not familiar with a temptation that why would the enemy present something to you that you've never struggled with, but say you've never struggled with it, that's gonna be an uphill battle. Why can't he then just present you with an old thought, an old temptation, an old mistake? And so what you've done with a soul tie is essentially, if we're gonna dumb it down for people like me,

A soul tie is just a very intricate and very intentional weapon that the enemy is then going to put right back in your face all the time to make you struggle. This guy in the thing you're talking about with the video, all that is is that's a soul tie that was created and the enemy is now presenting it in different forms to this man to never let him be free. And that's tricky and I think that...

when we talk to people about soul ties it's probably one of the most most aggressive weapons the enemy is going to use to keep you bound

If the devil can't make you sin, he's going to distract you. If can get you in the shame cycle, even better, because then he disarms you from doing it. You know, so many guys, they carry this burden around and they're giving everything they have to God. What I hear them say is, you know, but I have this or I've done this and they're still waiting on it. That's the enemy reminding them of something God's forgiven them of. But they're sitting in and they're inactive.

So he's benched them. The enemy, if he cannot get you to do something that separates you from God, so just sin is what we call it, an act that's unholy, he's gonna remind you of everything he can to put you in a shame cycle, to put you off the field on the bench. Well guys, this has been a super interesting conversation. I know it's gonna come back up, we're gonna get lots of questions, we're gonna try to feed, we're gonna try to field those questions the best we can. I wanna read.

We're gonna be open and honest about things, but we are not judging We're as guilty as anyone else at any given time But we're trying to learn the difference is is trying to learn Trying to bring correction and I can tell you there's been places in my life where I didn't even understand Correction needed to be brought because I was just fake about it. I didn't want to hear about that as justification. We want to please

always hear us when we're saying this conversation is to bring a process of some freedom and victory to you from a place that is a struggle and we're in that struggle we're never going to be talking to people from a place of like yeah i've never done that no i've never done that well maybe it will never be me

If there's a piece that sticks out, tell us what you want to talk about. Yeah, shoot us a message, shoot us a DM on the Facebook page or our personal pages. think those are linked. Anywhere can do it. God's not going to bring...

single conversation we're having if someone begins to be shaken with something reach out our ultimate goal is that people come to a personal relationship with Jesus just like we're we have always trying to pursue a little bit more we're working towards it and we want to be a conduit for that if you want to have a conversation we're gonna do it we make mistakes we just have gotten to a place in our lives to be real enough that like why not talk about

we hide too much so like that said you can find us on the we're always going to have links as they come out on the get canceled Facebook page which the gift can't so Facebook page is looks like

All of those words that's on that banner, that's basic Links will be there. It'll be on YouTube. If you just search my name, it'll be on YouTube as well. We're going to try to frame this up to where we can make it as fluid as possible. We're kind of new, so we're just trying to get it out. But we'll be producing links for Spotify, iTunes, and YouTube every couple of days. As Tiffany prepares these and gets them, we'll be dropping them on there and then sharing them out. So I do need to ask, though.

I don't think you've done this yet, but Please when you listen to the podcast give us a review. Yeah, we want to hear we want to see write a review Tell us hey that sucked or my gosh that was something we're dealing with right now We rating as well that definitely helps us more rating out five stars so and it was awesome talking to you guys again and our producer she really is

We got the cord today, we got a cord, we got a camera.

Yeah, but Tiff is awesome. She works diligently at all this stuff and chases me around with our Player of the Game stuff that I do every week. Alright guys, we'll see you next time.