Remarkable Minds

Healthy Conflict Resolution

• Daniel Stark • Season 1 • Episode 2

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Conflict is inevitable. It can feel scary, but it doesn't have to. 

Healthy conflict actually improves relationships - at work and at home. Claudia and Amy share some lessons they've learned about how to have constructive, healthy conflict, and how that will it brings you closer with your team. 


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Speaker 1:

Having this like preserved culture of healthy conflict. How does that make us better?

Speaker 2:

It makes us better because we will have conflict with each other and inevitably you're both going to grow from it. So it is a growth opportunity.

Speaker 3:

I'm going to use for everybody there.

Speaker 2:

So you're going to learn something from that conversation if you approach it in the right way.

Speaker 1:

Hello everyone. Welcome to Remarkable Minds hosted by Daniel Stark Leaders. Here we unbox insight into professional growth. I'm your host today, brittany Roberts. Joining me today is our Chief Marketing Officer, claudia Yanez, and our Chief Financial Officer, amy Goodwin. Hello ladies, how are y'all doing Good? So today we'll be talking about healthy conflict and what that looks like for our firm, but first, I want to hear from you guys what unhealthy conflict looks like.

Speaker 3:

I feel like I have so many examples of what unhealthy conflict looks like. Oh, that's. I feel like I have so many examples of what unhealthy conflict looks like. I almost even want to say if I have to have a, if we have to have another conversation about it, it feels like it did not that we didn't resolve it, but that's probably going a little bit too much.

Speaker 3:

But I would say unhealthy is when we can't come to a solution at the end of it, whether that solution was just to reconcile, get on the same page some actual action items, maybe where there was hurt, we hurt the other person or I was hurt in that process. And also if we weren't able to have a constructive conversation, where it wasn't respectful, it wasn't done with care or dignity, I would say that was also probably unhealthy.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, what about you, amy? Yeah, I would say unhealthy conflict is where you don't have a conversation about it or the actual problem was never brought up and people harbor resentment or like they're not over it, they haven't moved past it and so it's still conflict whether they're going to admit it or not, so just making sure that you've discussed the full issue.

Speaker 1:

I think, as a society, we think as long as the conversation happened, we had the healthy conflict, and that's just not true. And so now that we've identified what unhealthy conflict looks like, what does healthy conflict look like?

Speaker 3:

You mentioned something about as a society, because I do recall because this is part of our culture interview that we do when we're first hiring, and I remember conversations that I would have about what conflicts looks like, and I remember the other the person interviewing was like, oh, I'm not afraid of confrontation, and there was something about the way that it was said that made me think like there's a tone, yeah, and I was like say more about that? I'm curious because, like you said, like just having a conversation about it is enough for conflict resolution, and that's not healthy conflict resolution. So I was needing to understand okay, let's define it then. Like you're not afraid of confrontation, like what does that mean by you? Because for us, being able to go and talk to someone about it and confront the issue is separate from, like confronting the person. That's right. Like it's not. Those are not the same thing, and your objectives and your heart are going to, they're going to speak for themselves when you go into a, into a conversation like that.

Speaker 1:

So so you've seen firsthand the misconception. Oh yeah, the interview process, oh yeah, absolutely yes.

Speaker 3:

As early on as that is thinking that because you're not maybe afraid to go talk to someone about things doesn't necessarily mean that you have the skill set or the tools to have a healthy conflict resolution toward something. And so being able to define that for people and even with us, we outline what that process actually looks like when conflict arises in our social contract.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, amy, can you tell us about our social contract?

Speaker 2:

Oh gosh, yes, and I can't spout that off number by number, but basically it's a list of steps, or rules, if you will, that we agree to follow as a team, and it includes, you know, no drama and going to that first person first and making sure that if you have an issue, the person may not even know you have an issue. So that's step one. Let them know that there's been something that's come up and you'd like to discuss it, but going to them with an open heart, truly wanting the desire to reconcile. And that's the key is do you truly want to get past it? Do you want to reconcile and move on?

Speaker 3:

Because it will never be resolved until you get there, and even before that, there's a little bit of homework that you got to do first as a person and it's, you know, take some cool down time, or don't sweat the small stuff, take some cool down time. And it's because a lot of things that we consider conflict could be just misunderstanding, or your own narratives in your own head, or things that you may be creating that may not be there. So, sitting with that and self-reflection to confirm okay, is this me or is this an actual issue? Have I seen a pattern? How's this impacted me? I sit on it for a few days. I mean, I still feel this way. Now I'm going to go to that person and go address it.

Speaker 2:

Well, and I think that's good, even when you're writing an email, if there's something you're feeling emotional about, take a hot second to really think it through, because your words truly impact other people. So make sure you've thought it through.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, and it says more about you as a person, the way you handle it, than what it does about the other person that may have committed the offense.

Speaker 1:

So you know, you guys are talking about what happens when you take things personally, because that's what it sounds like, and having those two steps already eliminate that. And if you still feel something after that, then maybe you're not taking it personally, maybe there is a true conversation to be had. What does that conversation look like?

Speaker 3:

Oh, mine feels like a lot of people and for myself it's transformed the way I've had conversations on in almost all my personal relationships and in my professional relationships. But it starts with heart and it starts with curiosity and that's what I go into. Most of all of my conversation is having the curiosity. And then it comes with me being very self-aware about what was said, how it may have impacted me, why I believe it's impacted me, and just wanting to get some more context from that person to share into this pool of meaning and before I identify it as anything else first. And so I don't want to go into like immediately diagnosing. I'm looking, I'm going into that conversation just truly wanting to get more context and just be more curious.

Speaker 2:

Sure, feels like you're pulling another one of our core values in, because that's arms out, thumbs up. You go in thinking that they have their best intentions and maybe it's truly just a miscommunication and going in without a predetermined decision about what's about to happen and being open to feedback and the possibility that maybe you're wrong. Yeah, yeah, being willing to receive that.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. I want to kind of divide this into maybe easier levels versus harder levels. Absolutely so we can tell the audience what this looks like in real time and so kind of paint a picture for me of what these conversations have looked like in your tenure, of what you know some of the smaller ones were and even things that were small but got turned into a big thing because healthy conflict was avoided.

Speaker 3:

Let me think, if there is a time that I I know I have so many personal crucial conversations that I've had and I'm trying to think of any and an objective and making sure you know part of crucial conversation is that you need to be very aware of our emotions during those conversations Because, if not, your emotions will lead you into having another conversation that you'll end up at a place where, like, how do we get here? It's because your emotions led you there. Rather than being very objective, like this is what I'm going to address. This is how far back I'm going to go and, to be fair in those conversations, I'm not going to bring anything that's older than the past 90 days 90 days quarterly. For some reason always feel safe. It keeps it recent, but enough that there may be a pattern of something.

Speaker 3:

And my last conversation that I remember having was just about this person's maybe behavior towards other and what you could see like visibly externally, and I know that that's not where their heart was at, and I know that there was other things happening in their lives as well, and so and I know how it was impacting me yeah, on a personal and a professional level, and I wanted to be able to have that conversation with, with still love and care, but also accountability and and kind of in that particular conversation, wanted to see what accountability for them look like. And that was going to be a very a deciding factor for me in regards to how I was going to handle it, depending on how this person handled it, because you can't force the other person to actually admit fault or reconcile or want to get to the same outcome. But if they did, I knew what I wanted that to kind of look like, at least hope. But if they didn't, then I needed to then make a tougher decision if that's, if that's how the end of the conversation.

Speaker 1:

So for me, I'm kind of going in thinking, ok, it could go this way or it can go that way, and being prepared emotionally prepared for either or I think it's interesting, claudia, because I would agree, because it sounds like what you're saying is that the first level of a crucial conversation, a healthy conflict, is accountability, and that's where I believe it also starts. Like that's the base level, like healthy conflict means that there's accountability there, and so I want to hear about you, know, if you felt like the reason this one was a lower level is because you had that insight. Emotions weren't high, like what made you categorize this as just the first step into healthy conflict.

Speaker 3:

Oh, for this particular one, that was not the first one, that was probably like a bigger conversation because of what the stakes were and and that's how I define it lower versus a little bit higher.

Speaker 3:

It's like what calculating what the stake is, what you have to lose, and in that particular one, what I had to lose is like, depending on, I could lose respect for this person, I could lose like, what I admire about them, I could even potentially lose a friendship with this person, and so defining what the damage could be and mitigating that, of course, is important, but that that's what defines it for me, versus on the lower end, where it is a conversation where I'm just looking to get context, not even quite there to accountability just yet, maybe accountability for myself, but not necessarily accountability for that person. I'm mostly looking like I need, I'm coming from a place of curiosity, I want to understand a little bit, get some context, maybe apply some feedback for myself If it's something that I may have done to encourage the incident or encourage you know, whatever was said, and then that step is like OK, now I'm going to hold you accountable to, to, you know, x, y and Z Got it. What about for you, amy?

Speaker 2:

So I feel like, like Claudia said earlier, is depends on what you have to lose. You know, if it's a more of an understanding or we're just going to get something cleared up right now versus something that's super emotionally charged, we could lose a friendship, we could lose a team member. You know there's a lot more to lose. Those become more higher level, crucial conversations, and you do. You need to prepare for those, because conflict is scary and it's hard to have and you need to have put the effort in on the front end before you go in there and be prepared for that conversation.

Speaker 3:

And that be prepared is so critical. I have been on the receiving end of someone wanting to have a crucial conversation with me, or just an uncomfortable conversation, and they've come in maybe with like a general statement, but they don't have any actual like real examples. It's just a general feeling and that's so hard. Again, unclear is unkind.

Speaker 3:

It's hard to like work on something that you, that the person that's bringing it up to your attention has, is having a hard time even communicating what that is and I don't want to write it off, but at the same time, I'm going to put some real effort into wanting to work on this and so my part of the homework I'll get done.

Speaker 3:

But you got to put in your side of the homework, that's right. Come in prepared, having that If you're someone who may struggle bringing that up to the other person's, like writing it down, what's your objective, like, what are the things you want to actually talk about, like those main takeaways, and then give one or two examples in each of these things, and even going through that exercise alone tells you whether or not like oh, this may not actually be something that is that critical or that urgent, depending on what the impact is, because that's part of the homework I think before I go talk to someone is talk about the impact, like why this is important, and talk about how you're going to commit again to continuous improvement. What are you going to commit to grow from and learn from, and admit fault on your end, and so just going in there prepared is critical.

Speaker 2:

Well, and timeliness matters, like Claudia said. You know, if you're looking in the last 90 days, that feels relatively recent. It is completely unfair to someone to go in and be like a year ago you offended me or you did this and you've allowed so much time to go by without having that crucial conversation. That's unfair to the receiver end of whoever's receiving the other end of that conversation, because it also needs to be timely. If they didn't even know it had happened or that there was conflict there, then they didn't even weren't even given the opportunity to fix whatever it was.

Speaker 3:

Learn and grow from that, and I have also been on the receiving end of conversations that were like that and the good thing is that they prefaced it by saying that they thought it was unfair but they were holding themselves accountable to having that conversation and it was part of their healing process and thankfully it wasn't something that that I had directly done.

Speaker 3:

It was someone in and it was one of my leaders who's no longer here, but that had caused that and so they were holding me accountable as a leader of that leader and I welcomed it and I thought that was great for their healing process, that if you are holding on or harboring some resentment, that's from a long time ago and you feel the need to go address it. I think prefacing it by saying like this was a long time ago and you know, may not be, you know, fair, but want to bring it up.

Speaker 1:

And so it sounds like accountability is a part of each step of going in there the curiosity. But it sounds like you know, the first level is almost a discovery phase of hey, I'm here just to get the context behind this, like you said. And then it gets higher versus the stakes and as emotions run high. And so where have you seen people have the right intention? They came in, they wanted curiosity, emotions are high, but they didn't have healthy conflict Like what are people missing? Or common things that you see.

Speaker 3:

That can maybe dramatize a conversation that could have gone a different way that you see that can maybe dramatize a conversation that could have gone a different way.

Speaker 3:

I'm going to probably say the self-awareness component that's missing. And when you're wanting to have an uncomfortable or a crucial conversation, it's crucial or it's uncomfortable because you know that you're going to touch a subject or you're going to touch an area that could be highly sensitive and those are parts of people's identity or people's intentions. If you're making a statement about someone's intention, those can run pretty high and knowing that you're going to do that being self-aware. That's why I think it's critical to come in curious and but also be very clear so that they understand that they, you, actually solve the issue and actually bring the problem to light in saying something like hey, when you, when you said x, y and z, or when you, when you did x, y and z and it made me feel like you know what I state, how it made you feel and it made me question, like you know what I state, how it made you feel and it made me question if your you know intention was this.

Speaker 3:

You know I but I know you, I want to help me understand and then come from a place of curiosity, like, like, I don't want to land here. This is kind of where this journey took me. This is what I'm wrestling with. Help me understand this a little bit more. And so I think it's all about your word choice probably to me one of the most critical components, and then your delivery, which includes your tone, those two. I think if you can get those two down and with some thought and intentionality, you can mitigate the high emotions aspect of it.

Speaker 2:

Because I agree, so I the biggest mistake I've seen is someone come in with more of an accusatory tone, which then immediately puts the recipient in a defense type mode.

Speaker 3:

And immediately.

Speaker 2:

You've killed the opportunity to have a clear, concise conversation, because now emotions are immediately charged.

Speaker 1:

And if you had the self-awareness Claudia was talking about, you'd be able to read that almost immediately. To bring it back to safety.

Speaker 3:

Oh, absolutely Creating that safety important as well and eliminating words like you know words like you know you made me feel versus like I felt this way and eliminating as much of the blame portion of it, because I think when, immediately when you put blame, you're already accusing someone of a specific intention that may not be there. And I'm trying to go back and think about conversations that maybe people have had with me that were critical conversations, and I'm trying to go back and think about conversations that maybe people have had with me that were critical conversations and I think the things that have been helpful in those conversations for me as someone that you know, I feel really comfortable today with uncomfortable and crucial conversations.

Speaker 3:

I'm ready for them, my body is relaxed. I just mentally put myself in a place of like okay, I'm going to learn, this person is going to teach me something that I wasn't aware of and I'm excited to learn that. But I know that for them, you can see that it's challenging and it's probably going to be difficult for them, and I try not to put myself immediately into a facilitator role like facilitating my own uncomfortable conversation, but I have found it very helpful to again just summarize what they said to you know, back to them.

Speaker 3:

So I hear you say this, like I'm not trying to add what I think about it just yet. I just want to make sure that what they said I have correct, and so being able to summarize what they said and I always tell them like please feel free to either accept it, modify it or reject it, like no that's not what I said, or I meant this, or yes, absolutely that's what I said.

Speaker 3:

So having those check-in points throughout like part of that conversation has helped me and that person and I do this when I facilitate uncomfortable or crucial conversations among other people throughout that process just keeps us in line, like going to the right place, so that it doesn't veer off into something completely different For sure.

Speaker 1:

Now, those are great tools to have. Amy, I want to hear Claudia touched on something a little bit I'd love for you to expand on it of how people don't come, you know, to the DS with those type of backgrounds. Like everybody comes from a different walk of life, everybody was raised differently, have different experiences. What have you seen? Hold people back and having healthy conflicts because of how they just naturally came to DS and how they've grown, because of how they just naturally came to DS and how they've grown.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I want to start with the fact that when you're relatively new here, your first quarterly planning, the first thing we do is hand you a book of crucial conversations. So we make sure they're off on the right foot, we make sure that they understand. That's the process we're going to take here, because in many workplaces and your home life it's not normal quote unquote to approach someone and basically tell them you're about to have an uncomfortable conversation. I want to get on the same page here. We're not taught that in school, we're not taught that at home, we're not taught that in a workplace in general, and so most people come in with they're terrified to have a conversation with anybody else that has any type of conflict. Just because that's just how we're raised. It's conflict is scary for most people.

Speaker 2:

Clearly, claudia has met someone that wants to confront everyone which I have also worked with someone that he told me I stir up conflict because it's fun for me to watch and he very much enjoyed conflict and he enjoyed approaching people and kind of putting them on the defense, which is not someone I would want on my team. But we teach people here that you're not always going to agree there's. It's healthy to have conflict, it's okay to have a different opinion and we can all still work together and we can all still get along. But that's what I'm seeing is people come in not understanding that conflict is okay. Everybody's mind has conflict equals bad and that's not always true.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's just a way that we've been conditioned for the most part is your upbringing and especially how people may have reacted when you did try to have some sort of conflict resolution. And if that other person responded in a way that was very poor, then that would have absolutely shut you down from wanting to have conflict in the future and made you maybe a conflict avoider. Wanting to have conflict in the future and made you maybe a conflict avoider. And we know that for any organization, any team, at any level, you know, going through the five dysfunctions of a team, those, the pyramid that gets you to results, the bottom two layers is that trust, that safety, vulnerability, building that so that you can have good conflict and so that you can have, you know, commitment and accountability and therefore results. And so those are just. You must have that in your organization.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, in order. I was like it's so critical, I just don't, I can't, I'm so passionate about it. I wish other people were in other organization, were just as passionate as we were here, because the more you can facilitate that on a smaller scale and move that into bigger scales and take, make sure that you're taking the opportunity and holding your team accountable to having more of those conversations, the more radical candor we're just going to have as a team, as a leadership team, and it's not been that long ago.

Speaker 2:

We had some conflict amongst the group of us, not anything bad, but I would say discussing that and having that heated conversation, but knowing that every single person around that table loved each other enough to hold them accountable and truly see the conversation to an end. And then I would say, from there forward, you know, we are even better team. We're even stronger.

Speaker 1:

How do we interview for these kind of candidates? How do we find people who are on board with having these healthy conflicts?

Speaker 3:

I think the number one for me is just willing to be coached. I don't need you to come in with all the skills Most people don't come in with the skills but they come with a desire to grow and they come in with a desire to be held accountable. And if you have those two, then I'm willing to coach you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. Are there any interview questions that we have that can highlight this and help us find these people For?

Speaker 2:

sure. So one of the ones that sticks out to me is we ask them straight up When's the time you've had conflict with someone and how did you handle it? And then, as soon as they're done, do you feel like it was resolved? The next question is do you feel like they felt it was resolved? And unless they can fully discuss all of that, then they don't even understand that they've had conflict or not had conflict. So it's a matter of what story or experience they tell us and what they got from that experience.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and going with that is again, we know conflicts is inevitable. We want you to have conflict. That's how you deal with a conflict. That we care the most about is that, and I love a good, passionate advocate just like any other. Enjoy those people very much and I think if they're, but if they have those right skills and tools so you're utilizing their tools even when emotions are heightened.

Speaker 1:

It's really beneficial for a team. So we find these team members, they go through the interview process, we hire them and you say we give them a copy of Crucial Conversations, and so what's the first step of how they can see what healthy conflict looks like? You know what tools? I know there's some EOS tools too that we use. Now Walk me through that of how that looks like for a team member.

Speaker 3:

I think on a small level it's easy, just maybe a little bit of pushback in one of your weekly meetings and when we're discussing process or just you know procedural stuff, just just give it your thought and even push back on that so that that challenging or that going back and forth is like those very first initial things that I see like on that, on that small level, it it's.

Speaker 3:

It's a little bit more safe. You're not addressing anyone like personally. Um, before I see it move into those other categories, and I see it in the one-on-ones as well.

Speaker 3:

So we do monthly one-on-ones, which is a check-in with your whoever is your team lead or whoever you're reporting to and having some healthy conversation there, and that's kind of where some accountability comes in and you can see how they receive that, what their opinions are, and sometimes they need to speak back and it's whether they it's a two-way dialogue or if if it's one-sided, yeah, and it's really important too, for whether it's in the one-on-ones or in the weekly level 10s that we have for our depending on the personalities that you have in your they want to have something more meaningful or intentional to say, and those agendas are always live and they can go and check what's on that list at any given point.

Speaker 3:

And so if there is something that I know I'm going to want to talk about and I have someone like that on my team that they don't like when I ask them on the spot and I'll say give me knee-jerk reaction and then come back and give me some more thoughtful. Give me knee jerk reaction and then come back and give me, you know, some more thoughtful.

Speaker 3:

I may put it in there for them so that they can be ready to have some conversation and push back and we can have a little bit of that fight and unite.

Speaker 1:

And what does that do for organization? You know, having this like preserved culture of healthy conflict. How does that make us better?

Speaker 2:

It makes us better because we will have conflict with each other and inevitably you're both going to grow from it. So it is a growth opportunity.

Speaker 3:

I'm going to use for everybody there.

Speaker 2:

So that's how I see it. You're going to learn something from that conversation.

Speaker 3:

if you approach it in the right way, it forces us to be curious when you, when it's done right, when you have healthy conflict, it forces you to be curious and it and it holds you accountable to growing and all of those things. And because you have that, you have, you have commitment and you have buy-in and the relationships are stronger. There's so many benefits from having healthy conflict resolution that just trickles up and down your organization from the results, your literally company objectives, from being able to fight and unite on what those company priorities are, what those rocks are going to look like, all the way down to your one-on-ones.

Speaker 1:

So for our listeners who haven't had the fortunate experience to go on the journey with us, what are some quick things that they can do or some practical things that they can keep in mind to have healthy conflict?

Speaker 3:

Obviously buy the book. I'm sure that if you email us we'll give that book to you for free, because we're big advocates on crucial conversations. The other one is just be willing to explore and just reflect on some just self-discovery about your own emotional awareness and what you're bringing into context before you have those conversations.

Speaker 2:

That's what I would say. I'd say be willing to accept some constructive criticism or some growth opportunity and realize that maybe your perspective was short-sighted or that the person on the other side of the table is truly there trying to help you grow as well. So, being curious, but going in with the willing to learn and love.

Speaker 3:

I would say on top of that, because a lot of my feedback hasn't always come constructive, and even though it's a lot harder to accept feedback that's not constructive, there are absolutely things there to learn. Don't dismiss it, don't be quick to dismiss it because of the way that it was delivered to you, because the way it was delivered to you was not on you. That's not your fault, that's the other person's, maybe lack of skills or constraints. But there could be some truth there that you still need to be very curious about and admit fault in, regardless of the way that it was delivered, although it is much better when you go into those conversations, you come in prepared and you come in to give constructive feedback.

Speaker 1:

No, absolutely. What about when it is the leader who has the high emotion and they're the ones who are wanting to deliver it? What are the steps that they can take before they have this healthy conflict?

Speaker 3:

Oh goodness, yes, for sure, take some cool down time.

Speaker 2:

That's what I would say. Back to write it down. Do some a few bullet points, think about it, cool down time. What are you expecting to get out of it? The same steps as I would tell anybody is what I would tell. But, as a leader, also remember your impact on your team and that you have. You can hurt them and your words can hurt, so just you know, go into it slow and with a purpose.

Speaker 3:

Yes. And if you cannot, if you feel like you cannot hold yourself accountable to those emotions, bring in someone, bring in a facilitator or a mediator to come in and assist with those conversations. But if you're going in knowing like you have that desire to reconcile, you have an objective, you. And if you're coming in with high emotions, like, take that cool down time, do some of those exercises to help kind of bring those thoughts as to like why is this so? Why are you so high emotion? It's normally because there's some sort of attack on your character and or the impact that radius and that impact is great and that's where maybe those emotions are coming from. And if it's not those a lot of times when you do go through that process, you can come down and you realize, okay, this is not actually as big as I thought it was going to be, still important, but maybe not as big. But if you have those, I think those are worthy to talk about, to give perspective. Bring in someone if you feel like your emotions are going to be high.

Speaker 1:

No, absolutely. I love that you both recommended writing it down, because I feel like you can't really understand something until you're able to write it down. And even if it's just like the first one is just raw journaling and like making sure you're just pouring it all out and then going through making something concise and then really understanding your own emotions before going into it, it makes a big difference.

Speaker 2:

A lot of times you'll. Your emotions will be so much lower because when you can get in in writing and wrap your arms around it, it doesn't feel so big. It's, it's you know. It's these five bullet points. We can address this instead of just running wild in your mind.

Speaker 3:

Yes, you got to release. Oh yes, and in that process you realize, when you take this for what it is, out of the context of maybe when you got, whenever the encounter happened or the incident happened, what's going on in your personal life, what's going on in your professional life? It always seems probably bigger than what that is, and so being able to again that exercise helps you take that for what it is, for face value and out of this entire context that it was like maybe in yeah.

Speaker 1:

And also recognizing. Can you still have sound judgment? Yeah, after all of this, with the emotion that you feel, can you have sound judgment? Can you make a decision you're proud of? Or, like Claudia recommended, do you need to bring somebody else in?

Speaker 3:

Oh, absolutely. And last thing I would say on this topic is if you've gotten the same similar feedback time and time again from different people in your areas of life and it all has some sort of reoccurring thing. You've got work to do, areas of life, and it all has some sort of reoccurring theme. You got a lot, you got work to do and I hope that for for you and for your team and personal relationships, that you, that you don't take that lightly and that you, you do the homework and you put the work in.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely All said Well. Thank you, ladies, for being here with me. This is a great conversation for us to have. If you guys out there have any additional topics, you can send them to podcast at Daniel Stark. Until next time, stay remarkable.