Career Coaching Secrets

From Burnout to Blueprint: Zach White on Scaling Impact Without Sacrificing Balance

• Davis Nguyen

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Zach White, founder of Oasis of Courage and the host of The Happy Engineer, shares his journey from engineering burnout to building a thriving coaching business helping tech professionals thrive. Discover why group coaching can be just as powerful as 1:1, how he uses LinkedIn to generate high-quality leads, and the overlooked challenge every coach faces when scaling: marketing and sales.

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Zach White:

The first one that's unexpected and true is that group coaching has the potential to be just as impactful for clients as one-on-one coaching. It may be a different impact, but it can be just as valuable.

Davis Nguyen:

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Nguyen, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. Before Purple Circle, I started and scaled several seven and eight figure career coaching businesses myself and consulted with two career coaching businesses that are now doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or just building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Rexhen Doda:

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. Today, my guest is... is Zach White. Zach White is a leading career coach for engineering and technology professionals. Zach has helped hundreds of leaders at 150-plus top companies achieve career success without burnout. He's the founder and CEO of Oasis of Courage and the host of a top-rated podcast called The Happy Engineer. With a background in mechanical engineering and experience in Fortune 200, Zach brings both personal and professional insight to the challenges engineers face. I'm excited to dive into his expertise. Welcome to the show, Zach.

Zach White:

Oh, thank you for having me, Reggie. It's great to be here.

Rexhen Doda:

Well, it's nice to have you on. So tell me a little bit more about what inspired you to become a career coach, and especially for engineers.

Zach White:

Yeah. Like you mentioned, my background is in engineering. Went to Purdue, got my ME degree, and started my career Really excited to get out there and go be somebody, go be successful, build an incredible career. I had big goals, big dreams, and did what a lot of people do, Reggie, and I just started working harder, trying to get smarter, work harder, get smarter, work harder, work harder, and worked myself right into a really painful burnout and rock bottom experience in my own career. And that ended in divorce and depression and And honestly, a lot of embarrassment at the mistakes that I had made in my personal life, trying to go after this goal, this ideal of a really successful career. And while it wasn't just the career that led to those outcomes, there were a lot of factors involved. I realized that my approach, my strategy for career success was completely broken. My mindset was completely wrong in how I approached that. And so for me, like many coaches, my mess ultimately became my message and my desire to go help others. I started hiring my own coaches. I started focusing on personal development and career development in a new way. And I saw my career take off five promotions in five years, happier than I'd ever been, working less hours, fewer hours than I was before, and just feeling that sense of balance and ease in my life. And I was loving it. And in that process of growth, I also fell in love with coaching because it had made such a big impact in my own life. And so I sort of looked around Regin and I saw all these engineering leaders from junior ICs up through senior coaches leaders and companies who were on that same path that I was on. They were burning themselves out. They were unhappy and they didn't look forward to going to work doing engineering, which is what we were so passionate about and why we became engineers in the first place. And I just said, there's a bigger problem here that I really feel called to go solve and started training as a coach myself and launched into coaching full-time to tackle this pain point that engineering and technology leaders who really do desire to change the world are not able to do that because they don't have these insights and because they're burning themselves out. And so I want to help these leaders get promoted, have the success that they want, get into those influential leadership positions where they can make a difference, but do it in a way that holds on to that lifestyle and that balance and that passion, the purpose that got them started on this path. in the beginning. And now I'm doing it full time, have been for years, and will never look back. But it wouldn't be the path that I'm on if I hadn't made those mistakes. And for so many of us, those setbacks ultimately become setups for our future. And that's my story for sure.

Rexhen Doda:

Thanks for sharing that. Can you tell me some more about from the moment you started doing career coaching and to where you are at right now, how has that journey evolved over time?

Zach White:

Yeah, my first coaching clients, I was actually taking them on the side just as a side hustle while I was still full-time employed at Whirlpool Corporation. And being an engineer, I wanted to go test the idea that someone would pay me for coaching before I took that risk of quitting my job and going into it. full-time. And so I did the side hustle path, got started as a coach, took on my first few clients. And once I got that validation, it was in the spring of 2019 when I made the decision that I was going to walk away from really a truly successful career path. I mean, my career was climbing and climbing fast at the time that I decided to make And lots of people who loved me thought I was pretty crazy. My mom in particular, like, what are you doing? Walking away from two engineering degrees, a master's in mechanical engineering and a really successful, high-paying career path to go figure out how to make some money as a coach. It was a very scary thing. But went full-time that summer of 2019 and started just taking on clients one-on-one. And it was just a few months later, as you'll remember, that the entire world came to a screeching halt with the COVID-19 pandemic. And everything I was doing with one-on-one, face-to-face coaching ended overnight and needed to come up with a completely different delivery model for how to help clients. And that's when I pivoted into an online business And that opened the door to so many things, not only clients around the world, around the country at different companies and different industries I would have otherwise never had access to, but also to start exploring ways to scale the impact through group coaching programs and courses all integrated into my approach and ultimately led to the creation of what is my flagship coaching program now. It's called the Lifestyle Engineering Blueprint. But that evolution was slow and painful, going through some difficult, unexpected external factors there with COVID. But looking back, it's probably the best thing that ever happened to my business because it forced me to innovate and figure out a different way to scale faster that I'm super grateful for now.

Rexhen Doda:

Thinking back, I cannot believe that it's been five years already since that

Zach White:

happened. I know, it's wild, right?

Rexhen Doda:

Yeah. And as you were explaining your story, I was like, okay, so COVID happened, this kind of skyrocketed his approach because he was doing it online. Now more people are getting online, but actually you were doing it locally initially, right?

Zach White:

That's right.

Rexhen Doda:

Yeah. Well, looking back at it now, do you think that it was the right time at that point to move to career coaching right in 2019 because it gave you a little bit more experience to do some coaching before actually everything became online and then you had more clients coming in because you had a bigger audience to look at.

Zach White:

It's always tough to do those hindsight questions because I won't be able to, I won't know which way it could have been better or different or how they would have been different, but I will say this. I could have started coaching full-time sooner than I did. Being an engineer and being very methodical, very process-oriented and analytical, generally risk-averse compared to other entrepreneurs or other mindsets, I definitely took a slower path into making coaching my full-time work. And I was walking away from something very successful, so it was a huge decision for me to do that. I could have started sooner. I think if I had faced that fear and had the entrepreneurial spirit to do it, I could have easily begun a couple of years prior. And I don't know, Regin, whether that would have catapulted results prior to COVID, for example, and maybe that could have been an even bigger catalyst or not. But I will say I don't know a single person that I've talked to who has a passion or a desire to become a career coach who could not begin now. If you want to do it and you know it's your purpose and your calling to do it, you could start now. There's no reason to wait. Better time. Yeah, there's no better time than the present. But at the same time, I respect, I appreciate people like me who want to take a more methodical approach and just recognize you're paying the highest price because time is the one thing you cannot get back and you can't get more of. And so if I were doing it again, I would start sooner. But I'm super grateful for how things have turned out for me.

Rexhen Doda:

Is there a specific group of engineers, like a specific industry that you're helping? And where would you go to find them? Or where do you go to find them?

Zach White:

Yeah, I'm not industry specific. In many ways, industry agnostic. But the bulk of my clients come from either the tech sector. So they work at... The big FAANG organizations, Facebook or Meta, Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, those types of companies working in technology, which is very competitive because of its remote work nature and global landscape. Plus, these companies are big brand names with extremely high paying salaries. So those engineers are looking for coaching to have an edge. And then the other big group are from your more traditional design engineering, industrial engineering, MEs, EEs, people who work at your automotive industry or appliance industry or manufacturing, those types of disciplines. And the main connecting point for my clients is that they're all in that middle of their career phase, the messy middle where you get stuck and you get burned out. It's not that hard to get your first couple promotions if you just do good work. But that manager band, lead engineers, managers, senior managers, even up to director, that middle band, that is the toughest place for so many engineers because being great at engineering is no longer enough. It's not about how smart you are in the technical. All these other skill sets come into play and the balance gets a lot harder. So my common thread is generally it's engineering management, that middle level. And I find them on LinkedIn. My primary platform for discovery and lead generation is LinkedIn because when you're frustrated with your career, when you're unhappy with where you're going or you're stuck in getting a promotion, what do you do? You go polish your LinkedIn profile, get your resume ready and start looking for solutions. And that's the social networking platform where I can find people online during that pain point. And it also opens the door to a direct career conversation, which is what I want to be doing with them to help them make a decision if coaching is what they need.

Rexhen Doda:

When you go on LinkedIn, is there a specific strategy that you're following that's been most successful to you? Since you've been doing it for a little bit more than five years now, you think that there is some strategy that works better compared to other strategies that could be used in LinkedIn because there's many ways you can go about it.

Zach White:

You know, there's a guru on every street corner preaching how to do LinkedIn lead gen, right? And I'll say this, I imagine many of those strategies can work. I don't wanna dismiss anybody's approach. If they're getting results, great. But for me, there's really three pillars to my LinkedIn strategy and all of them come back to one principle that conversion into coaching happens in conversations. Conversions come from conversations. So the three pillars are just organic connection requests directly through the platform. So connecting and chatting, creating content that people engage with and opens the door to chatting and conversations. And the third is LinkedIn advertising to broaden the base of who I can reach and attract people who are already searching and curious about coaching. So those three pillars all have in common, whether I send you a connection request because your profile looks like the kind of person who I want to talk to and who may be ready for coaching, or if you engage with my content, which is kind of like you raising your hand, hey, I like what you have to say. I think this is interesting, or I relate, I resonate with this message. That hand raise of their engagement opens the door to a conversation. And in an advertisement, even though there's a funnel and things that can happen through the ad directly to get them to take action, I always match that with a conversation as well. One of the great things about LinkedIn, when you run those lead gen ads, you can get their LinkedIn profile URL and go right back to that person who just clicked your ad, send them a connection request and have a conversation. So it's all about coming back to chatting with them, direct in the inbox. And to this day, even as my company has scaled and success has grown tremendously over the years, I still go to LinkedIn every single day and have conversations with prospective engineering leaders. And that personal touch in a world when so much is being automated and driven by bots and AI and tools like that. That's a big part of what attracts people to want to work with me because they feel that energy and authenticity that is genuine. It is a real conversation.

Rexhen Doda:

Yeah, so I really like your approach and the three pillars. When it comes to reaching out, making those connections or even engaging with, or when they raise a hand to engage with your content, that is something that even through past episodes, we have noticed as a strategy. What we haven't seen before is being explained a little bit when it comes to advertising LinkedIn. Is there a specific, is there like a specific budget or there's a specific strategy that you go for just for advertising.

Zach White:

Yeah, I only run lead gen ads. So if you're unfamiliar with the LinkedIn ad platform, there's many ad types you can select from. Brand awareness and getting click through and different things you can do. But one of the types is a lead gen ad. And the reason I like that is the conversion, the actual success metric of a lead. When someone engages with that ad, they click or they thumb through and there's a moment there where LinkedIn will serve up a little form right in the platform. So they don't have to leave to go to a landing page. They don't have to exit the platform, which LinkedIn likes. Remember, their incentive is to keep the person on LinkedIn. So when you run a lead gen ad, they're still in the platform and it's asking them for permission to send me their name, their email, their job title, their company, and their LinkedIn profile URL. So I ask for all that information in exchange for something of real value for their career development. So you need to still run a good ad with a real valuable lead gen, lead magnet, but I'm asking for that information. And so when they say, yes, I want the lead magnet and I'm willing to give Zach all this information about me, that's a real, that's a high hand, right? That's a real exchange of value there. They're giving me that information. I'm giving them something to help their career. And that person is ready for a conversation. And I always in Thank you so much. Because sometimes email deliverability is a problem, you know, and they click the thing and they don't get it. And so you just want to make sure, hey, did you get the thing? How did it work out for you? Do you have any questions? And you can start with genuine value, right? Did the thing you asked for work for you? How can I help? And it opens the door now to a conversation about coaching that's not just a cold, you know, hey, Reggie, nice to meet you. Do you need a coach? You want to pay me a bunch of money? Do you want to buy my stuff? It's like, that doesn't work. So I like coupling genuine conversation with advertising. I call it a semi-automatic process. You know, the ads run automatically. All of the funnel, activity and email activity runs automatically, but the conversation is manual and so you have this semi-automatic approach where people feel that little distinction that genuine touch that they're not getting from other ads that they're clicking where people are just trying to automate all the way to the sale

Rexhen Doda:

i really like that and for someone who has not done that before is there any expectation when it comes to cost per lead that you at least like many people will get different costs depending on the industry that they are targeting but for you is there a cost per lead and feel free not to share that if that's something probably No,

Zach White:

I mean, I'm happy to share my numbers, but I think anybody who runs ads will know that my numbers don't mean anything for you because it totally depends on your audience and the size of your audience and what your business model can afford. So it really doesn't matter. I'd pay $150 a lead if every single one of them bought my product. my coaching, like that would be incredible, right? And I would not pay a dollar a lead if none of those people were my target market. So just a reminder, if anybody's new, you're listening and wants to get into ads, be careful about assuming a certain cost per lead is the right number because it all depends on the quality of those leads and your own conversion metrics all the way to the sale. But for me, when I'm targeting engineering managers in the United States, for example, which is a fairly large audience, you know, we're talking about half a million people that are direct title matches for the people I want to work with or more. It can be up to a million and a half if I expanded a couple levels up or down. That audience I can reach for anywhere from $5 to $15 for a lead. And the lead conversion metric, meaning they clicked the ad and they agreed to give me that information I mentioned earlier in exchange for whatever I'm offering on the advertisement lead magnet. That's what definition of a successful lead would be. So that's my range. And I know if I'm in that range that it will be very profitable. If we're talking return on ad spend, we do anywhere from three to six ROAS with numbers in that range, sometimes better. Like most ads, they tend to start higher. And then as the ad fatigues, you're going to see those numbers get worse and you have to re-engage new content, new lead magnets, and make sure that it's always being refreshed.

Rexhen Doda:

So the important thing that anyone has to take from this is that that cost can mean something different for you, depending on even what your pricing is. Make sure that the return on ad spend or ROA is at least three or higher in order for you to be considered that you're running a successful ad. Anything lower than that, you're not performing at like the best that the ad could perform. Like you could do better than that. And the next question I have is, do you have any future goals that you're working towards for the next one to three years?

Zach White:

Of course.

Rexhen Doda:

Can't

Zach White:

be a coach. Can't be a coach and not have some goals. I'm really focused right now on scaling two aspects of our coaching here at the Oasis Thank you so much. does the 90-day program first. It's everything you need to know in the fundamentals of how to build a career and balance your life, which is what we're here to do. And that program, we've reached a point now where it's time to scale our capacity to take on more clients. So my first big goal is to take what we're doing there to double or triple somewhere in that range, our capacity to help more engineering leaders working through that program. And the big barrier and bottleneck is of course me, right? Well, I still offer the coaching sessions, you know, it's group coaching plus an element of one-on-one and that one-on-one element with me is the bottleneck. So training up coaches, getting ready to offload that one-on-one piece and increase our capacity for the blueprint program. That's my first big goal. And then the second is we have a mastermind. And this is for people who finish that blueprint program, who are committed to long-term success and wanna be part of a community of top talent engineering leaders who share the mindset and share the tool set of how to be successful in an ongoing fashion. This is a longer-term commitment for those leaders who are serious about ongoing support after they finish the program. So we're looking to scale that total capacity as well. Right now, we have about 25 or 30 people in our mastermind, and the goal is to get to the top 100 engineering managers and leaders in the country or around the world into that mastermind. So those are our two big goals, to triple our capacity in the blueprint and to scale the mastermind to the top 100 leaders in the world.

Rexhen Doda:

Thanks for sharing that. Those are very impressive goals to have. The next question I have is, Since you have reached to a certain point right now over the last five years, in terms of investment, what resources or support has been most valuable in you growing your coaching business?

Zach White:

I do personally. I know every coach may not feel this way, but I feel there's an integrity to working with coaches if you are a coach. If you're going to go out into the marketplace and tell your clients that coaching will help them get the results they want, then coaching is will help you get the results you want. And so for me, ever since that burnout in my career and hiring my very first coach, I've been committed to always having a coach in my corner, supporting me in my own goals. Hands down, best investments I've made in building my coaching business is hiring great coaches to help me do that. That's how I met Davis, the founder and CEO of Purple Circle. That's how I met the coaches that I've worked with multiple over the years. personal one-on-one coaches. I've done group coaching programs. I've paid for online courses. I'm willing to invest way more money than my clients invest to do my program because I really do believe there's an energetic pace setting that happens when I show them that this works in my own life. And I lead with that investment into myself, which then helps me to invest back into them at a higher level as well. So I've done a lot of different things, but fundamentally, don't be afraid to make the wrong decision or hire the wrong coach. Like I've had several courses and programs I've done that probably, if I'm being honest, just did not return in terms of the investment. But even that teaches you something. And the way I think about it, Regin, is that I don't rely on just the coach to create the ROI. How I show up to the process creates the ROI. So hopefully, of course, I'm going to get some insights and get some support that's going to helped me explode the business. But even if that doesn't happen, every coaching engagement has the opportunity to teach me something if I let it, even if it's what not to do or who not to hire in the future. So that's my philosophy about it. And I still work with multiple coaches today, and I don't think that will ever stop.

Rexhen Doda:

I really like that. And it has been one of the investments that we've seen either through previous podcasts that I've done and other coaches have brought up as the best investment. And also we did a white paper research and I've interviewed about 71 coaches. They were not all career coaches. Some of them were career, some of them were executive coaches, leadership coaches, but the majority of them were career coaches. And we were able to identify what was the best and the worst kind of investment. And it Actually, the worst was actually the one that they did. mostly but yeah when it comes to coaches investing in other coaches it turned out to have the biggest return on investment compared to other investments such as like certifications or things like that so I'll send that to you as well and for anyone watching the podcast they probably have seen we'll see that in the previous episodes as well but I'll be linking that into the description for anyone who wants to find that white paper research so I'll send that to you on email as well another thing I wanted to ask you is what is something that you would you had known when you first started scaling your coaching business? What is one unexpected lesson learned?

Zach White:

I'll share two. Yeah, I've got two. The first one that's unexpected and true is that group coaching has the potential to be just as impactful for clients as one-on-one coaching. It may be a different impact, but it can be just as valuable. And I still have a mix in my delivery with clients. We do both group and one-on-one coaching. formats to help them get results. But I think the training I received and my original mindset about coaching was that one-on-one was more important or more powerful to create change and group was... less so. But group could scale and one-on-one could not. So you're kind of stuck choosing, do you want low impact, high scale or high impact, low scale? That was my old mindset. And I don't believe that's true anymore. I think group coaching can create just as much impact and value when done well as one-on-one coaching. They're just different. So the type of conversation or the type of value that you can create may look different. And so I think that's a really important paradigm to keep in mind a lesson I didn't learn until I made that transition and started really focusing on how to create value through group coaching. The second one is that I come from an So in coaching, the product is you, the ability to coach, your program or your coaching conversations that you're having, that's the product. And when I left engineering to become a coach, I focused most of my energy on becoming a great coach and developing great coaching systems, great delivery systems, great ways to manage each client and really stay sharp on all of the things they were doing and the backend systems to manage all the clients and their expertise. exercises and action plans and stuck points. And I put a lot of energy into that, thinking that was the hard part. And the truth is that the hard part is reach. It's marketing, it's sales. It's standing out in a very noisy marketplace when there's a coach on every street corner waving their hand saying, I can help you, I can help you. And the truth is most of them can't. They're just not that good. I don't mean that as an insult to any individual, but just as an industry, coaching is losing a lot of its credibility because there's so many bad coaches out there or people who just want to make money and don't really care about their clients and their success. And so there's a lot of skepticism around coaching. And I think that's increased since I began in 2019. It's getting harder, not easier. So I wish I'd known those two things sooner, that Group coaching is really powerful when done right. And that you must invest more energy into your marketing upfront than your coaching, which is not what most coaches want to hear. They just want to coach. They just want to help people. That's what I used to say. I just want to help people. And that's such a great desire to make that impact. But you can't help someone if you can't sell them coaching. And so that was a huge, like, oh my gosh, like shift in my mindset that I needed to fall in love with marketing and sales, just like I had fallen in love with the product of coaching the delivery if I wanted to actually live the impact I felt called to make.

Rexhen Doda:

Wow, thanks for sharing that. That is the first time that I hear that perspective. So and I have heard what you mentioned earlier that they feel that they can make the most impact on one on one versus group coaching. And for everyone who's watching this and has not tried that before, we just like give it a test and maybe see how that works out. So yeah, there's there's a new perspective here. And thanks. Thanks so much for sharing that. And another thing I wanted to ask is like, what is one? What are some of biggest challenges you've faced in scaling your coaching business, you can think about it both ways. What have you overcome and maybe what are you currently? Because some people are going to resonate with the challenges you are at right now and some with the challenge that you were able to overcome.

Zach White:

Yeah. So I'll start with challenges I faced in the past that I have since overcome. I think the biggest one for me, and I think it's probably true for most coaches out there, was mastering sales. Learning how to have a powerful sales conversation that aligns with my values and did not feel salesy or slimy in any way, but delivered tremendous value and had the courage to ask for money, to tell someone, I can help you. This is how. And are you ready to get started? To do that in a way that allowed them to feel safe and to feel confident and to feel excited about getting started, that this is going to help them. That was not a natural skill set for me. I mean, again, I come from an engineering background. I did not know the first thing about sales. And it was by far the biggest area of growth for that I needed to overcome. And now I tremendously look forward to a sales conversation. I love doing it because every time I do that, it's an opportunity to serve someone at such a high level and I know I can help them. And that excites me. It's like, I just can't wait for this opportunity to talk to someone about where they're stuck and what they need and show them a path to a better life, a better career and invite them to walk that path with me. I mean, that's just such an amazing privilege. So that's number one. as far as challenges that I overcame. And I don't think I'll ever stop focusing on that. It's a lifetime mastery skill set. Today, I think the biggest challenge that I'm facing is what I mentioned earlier about the constraint of my time. And every coach eventually faces the decision, are you going to be the star of the show for the duration of your business? Or are you going to start training other coaches and bringing on a team to help you deliver to more people and, you know, getting outside of yourself being the bottleneck. So I'm in that phase right now of, you know, looking at our business model, looking at our delivery model and looking at who we need to hire in our team. And then making sure that, you know, I use the phrase intimacy at scale. What I don't want is to grow so fast that just because we can, that we lose that impact and intimacy with our clients. I really want everybody who's here to feel like they belong and to feel seen and understood and to get tremendous value far more than their investment from what they're taking away in our programs. So just doing that strategically, carefully, that's the big barrier I'm facing right now. And my time is the bottleneck. So I think every founder will hit that point eventually. It's just a matter of how you choose to solve it.

Rexhen Doda:

Thanks so much for sharing. I think both challenges you face, there's going to be coaches that are going to resonate with them. with the second one, maybe coaches that are not at beginner level with the first one, more in the beginning of their coaching business as well. One question, and this is getting to the closing questions, is what advice would you give to other career coaches that are watching this, that are looking to scale their impact? You've already shared quite a few, but is there something else you would like to share?

Zach White:

For me, it all starts with the vision. So what is that vision? compelling goal, that vision of the future that is worth getting up in the morning and doing hard things, worth struggling well for. And if your vision is not clear and compelling and something you dream about and that energy and excitement of achieving it gets you out of bed in the morning and pulls you into the work, then I'd encourage you to Go back to that. And vision matched with purpose, vision matched with your values. So what is it crystal clear that you want and why does it matter? Which as a coach, it's like, okay, duh, that's what we help our clients with. But it's so easy to tell someone else that they need a goal and they need a compelling, Simon Sinek would say, start with why, and then not do it for ourselves. And so I just encourage every coach, look like, It's great to say you want to make more money and make a bigger impact. So does every single coach on the planet. That's not clear enough. That's not specific enough. What is your unique and compelling vision? And why does it matter so much that it's non-negotiable for you? And if that's not really known and understood and like in your fabric of your DNA, then you got work to do.

Rexhen Doda:

Thanks so much, Zach. And for anyone who wants to find you, they can find you on your LinkedIn, Zach White. This was a very, very interesting show, especially with us diving into the challenges for both levels of coaches, with us diving into LinkedIn ads and the other two pillars. That was amazing. So I really appreciate your time today, Zach.

Zach White:

It's a pleasure. Reggie, thanks for having me and love what you all are doing. Keep crushing it out there.

Davis Nguyen:

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe to YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This conversation was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. To learn more about Purple Circle, our community, and how we can help you grow your business, visit joinpurplecircle.com.