The Psychology of Teams: Coaching Insights with Manish Shah

 In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, host Kevin sits down with Manish Shah, founder of Epix Team Building & Coaching, to explore the power of the four-bird personality model and how it transforms leadership, teamwork, and careers. Manish shares how understanding your natural and energy-draining styles can reduce conflict, improve collaboration, and even guide career pivots. From corporate executives to nonprofits and startups, discover how these simple yet unforgettable frameworks create lasting impact in coaching and team development.


Connect with

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/manishanilshah/
Website: https://epyxteambuilding.com/

Transcript

Manish Shah: 0:00

So just like most assessments, you know, that follows the four brain model. So this has got four quadrants in it or four personality types. Now, around 60% of us can take on two of the four personality types very naturally. What does that mean? That means it gives us energy and we gain more energy when we execute the styles and those personalities. But the opposite of the two drain us. So we can do all four personality types. Everybody has the ability to do it. Two that come natural to us, Welcome

Davis Nguyen: 0:31

to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Nguyen, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight figure career coaching business myself, and I've been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevate your coaching business.

kevin: 1:02

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Kevin, and today we are joined by Manish Shah. He's been a coach for over five years. He's the founder of Epix, E-P-Y-X, Team Building and Coaching. Welcome to the show, Manish. Thank you for having me, Kevin. Yeah, it's a pleasure. One of the things I just love on this podcast is figuring out the origin story of the lore. So kind of curious, what made you want to become a coach and turn it into a business?

Manish Shah: 1:29

Yeah, no, absolutely. Thanks again for having me on the show. So I actually grew up in Toronto, Canada, and most of my life has been a consultant, kind of management consultant point of view. I joined Accenture out of the Toronto office, and then they moved me down here to Atlanta, be closer to my family who moved here just before I did. So I'm now stationed and working from Atlanta, Georgia. I did a couple more years after business school at Chapel Hill with Ernst & Young and then Cap Gemini. And then once we had our second child, my wife said, all right, we need to get you off the road in time for you to be local in Atlanta. area. So my first couple of jobs were corporate internal consulting roles within Delta Airlines and then at IHG, Intercontinental Hotels Group, which is the owner of Holiday Inn, Intercontinental Hotels, Crowne Plaza, State Bridge, Camberwood. And they have a very large regional headquarter here in Atlanta, Georgia. So that was the first time where I had a team and I hired executive coaching and team building for myself and my team. We would use the coaches several times throughout the year to help us with our individual goals. And some people wanted to just to get more development in oriented. Some people want to get promoted. Some people just wanted to work better in their existing environment and role. So I was a customer executive coaching at that time. And alongside with that, I would hire team building companies to run personality assessments with each of us and then do some type of team building activity. So I remember this is around 10 years ago when I left IHG. And I remember at that point in time, I'd love to do this later on in my career as a practitioner. So I kept in touch with the company Take Flight, a team builders and corporate out in Philadelphia. And they certified me about six years, seven years ago. And then I got my executive coaching credentials out of the Emory MBA Gazeta program. And then I did my international coaching federation certification with ACC right away in 2020. But that's a little bit of my journey. So I was a customer of coaching and team building, and now I'm a practitioner One

kevin: 3:33

thing I am very curious about, let's fast forward to kind of today. Everybody talks about target audience, ideal client profiles and all that. So how did you kind of, I guess, who do you help and what do you help them with? Sure. So

Manish Shah: 3:46

generally I help with corporate executive teams. So high performing teams or goal, the teams that wish to become high performing. And I work with co-CEOs or co-founders or a full leadership team of, you know, eight to 10 And people, I've done workshops as large as 40 to 50 as well. And I focus initially on team building and understanding personality and how does that help you attain your goals. And then we do individual executive coaching one-on-one from there based on the frequency and budget and the length of the engagement that we wish to have. Oftentimes, I will just do a team building exercise, include the coaching in there as well. And it can be one and done. And sometimes people have, you know, additional two, three months, six month goals, and we extend from there. In addition to targeting executive corporate teams, I have actually done quite a bit of work with nonprofit executive teams and their board of directors, either sometimes together or separate. And then I've also done smaller corporations and their corporate boards, as well as startups.

kevin: 4:55

Oh, wow. Quite the variety of clients it seems like and offers. Okay. So one of the things I'm also curious about is as you are kind of getting these interested people, organization, startups that are interested in your services. How did they find out about you? Like what kind of marketing are you doing right now for your business?

Manish Shah: 5:14

Sure, absolutely. There's actually three different parts to kind of the marketing ideas or strategies over here. So one is, you know, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn and I touch base with a lot of people on my network. I reach out to new folks or people that have been part of my network and just make introductions that way. Often people find me, especially nonprofits, they find me through my website. directly coming on and then inquiring about an engagement or what a team building activity would look like. Sometimes, especially the non-partners, they don't spend a lot of energy or time in team building. They develop the team and they start to focus on the vision and mission of the organization and dive right in. And that can create friction and conflict if you don't understand the types of personalities that are on the team and how to work better together. So that's that second bucket. And the third one is really word of mouth. And that's the highest growth that I've had in these kind of podcasts. But once you go through my personality assessment, you kind of fall in love with the methodology and idea. And I've had many people, even executives, come and tell me, hey, can you do this with my spouse or my children or my teenage kids or my adult kids? And a lot of that is this word of mouth. And then, you know, an adult kid may be an executive with another corporation and bring me on board for another round of team building and coaching with their corporate team.

kevin: 6:28

I see. That's pretty interesting. And so I guess one of the questions I have for you, so it sounds like you're doing a bit of LinkedIn People are finding you probably through SEO, through your website. There's a bit of word of mouth as well. And you're kind of doing these live assessments and all that as well. Correct. As you reflect the history of your business, what kind of challenges have you noticed when it comes to finding clients?

Manish Shah: 6:50

I would say, you know, a lot of it is through my own network and networks network. There's been a small amount, like I said, from a nonprofit standpoint that are coming to the website directly. But there's probably some more opportunity around SEO and maybe even going global with it. So I've done a couple of workshops in Canada, a couple in India so far. But, you know, team building and personality assessments and coaching is needed around the world. So probably there's some opportunities there as well.

kevin: 7:20

And something interesting that you mentioned earlier, you did kind of break down your offers earlier, like one-on-one coaching. I think you mentioned some organizational trainings and all that as well. Since you work with a variety of different, I and all that. One of the things I would love to hear is like your thoughts on pricing strategy, since this is where a lot of coaches listening to this struggle the most. Obviously, you don't have to give any hard numbers or anything like that. But when you think about pricing strategy or how to structure your pricing, what have you gravitated to? Is it more project-based, retainers, hourly? You know, there's just so many different ways to do pricing. So I'm kind of curious about your

Manish Shah: 8:00

thoughts. Yeah, no, absolutely. So, I mean, essentially there are two products that I have, right? So one is the one-on-one coaching and the other one is the workshop itself, right? The personality assessment and workshop. So let's start with the workshop because that is the spear, the tip of the spear in terms of how I get my executive coaching clients. From a assessment standpoint is simply $50 standard rate to take an assessment and you get a PDF report off of that. And I charge anywhere from free up to, you know, $250 to $500 per hour to do the actual facilitation readout of that personality, right? So one-on-one, maybe anywhere from $250 to $500 for the hour to go through that. And if it's larger teams, it can go up to $3,000 or $4,000 for a one-hour or two-hour workshop, depending on the size and the complexity of that engagement. And then I just have a very standard rate of around $250 an hour, typically for coaching. And there's packages we can add up on top of the workshop, depending depending on how long the engagement is and how many sessions we wish to have. And then I may have a little bit of a profit share with me and some of my team members. If I decide to kind of give away some of the work to some other coaches, then I just kind of do a little bit of a finder's fee and then they take on the executive coaching part of it. And I really focus on the team building and the personality assessment part of it.

kevin: 9:28

Now you mentioned this assessment, right? Is it your own assessment that you kind of created or did you get like, I forgot the words, not necessarily licensed, but certified. Yes, yes.

Manish Shah: 9:39

Yeah, it's a certification. So yeah, it's an interesting story. The company that I hired when I was at IHC as an executive was called, and it still is called Team Builders Plus. They're based out of Philadelphia. The owner's name is Merrick Rosenberg and he's a CEO. Shortly after I left IHC, I was following him on LinkedIn in and I saw a lot of neat, innovative concepts starting to be shared through his LinkedIn posts. So I pinged him and he gave me an overview of it, which I can give you a small overview of it in a few minutes today. And what he told me in that overview session was that when he was doing the team building and the coaching at IHG, he was quite frustrated because he would come back a few months later to the team and ask them, hey, all the stuff I taught you such as the Myers-Briggs or the DISC or the Hogan. There's many assessments out there. Are you and your team using this on an active basis? Has it made impactful change? And 100% of the time, the team members would say no. They're not using it in their team building. They're not using it in their coaching. They're not using it in their career development. So then he developed what's called TakeFlight. And I got certified in that instrument in 2018. And what I love about take flight is it applies both to executive coaching and to team building and once you go through it you'll never forget it it uses mnemonics and analogies that all of us know and it categorizes everybody in the world into one of four different mnemonics and it's very powerful so it's one of those where if you take it or even if you just get an overview of it you'll never forget it and you can use it immediately for yourself and for all your relationships that you have out there and if you think about career coaching right it is two aspects inside Like what can you do within your own tools and your own knowledge and skills? But there's a lot of influence you need to do with the personalities around you to help you achieve your goals. And so this is where the personality assessment comes in because it helps you understand yourself, but it helps you understand how to work better with everybody

kevin: 11:41

around you. I see. That's really interesting. Do you want to just give a brief high-level overview of this assessment or what makes it, I guess, different from other things? Like I'm kind of

Manish Shah: 11:51

curious. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So just like most assessments, that follows the four brain model. So this has got four quadrants in it or four personality types. Now, around 60% of us can take on two of the four personality types very naturally. What does that mean? That means it gives us energy and we gain more energy when we execute the styles and those personalities. But the opposite of the two drain us. So we can do all four personality types. Everybody has the ability to do it. Two that come natural to us, they give us energy. The two that are not natural to us, they take away energy, right? And they can eventually drain us. And this is what causes conflict in teams or in relationships when we end up frustrated because we get pushed into a personality type that's not our natural style for long periods of time. Now there's a one third of us, 33% can take on three styles. So we have two high styles and we can take on a third style as needed. It's called a tertiary style and we flex in that style. And there's about 7% of us that can only do one style very well. And we focus on that one style. And then the other three are all take energy or take work from us. Now, like I said, everybody can take on all four styles, but nobody is humanly capable of doing all four all the time. It's just not possible. So we generally always gravitate to two, top one and two. The next piece is personality is made up of nature and nurture, as you know, right? When you think about nature, right, that's kind of how you were born. You're hard-coded with brain chemicals, you can't change that too much. Nurture changes you a little bit because it's the way you were born, your religious values, your upbringing, you know, your goals, those type of things change over time. But a lot of your personality is hard-coded and that's why a lot of conflict happens when somebody's trying to change somebody else's personality and it just doesn't happen naturally, right? It doesn't happen. It can happen over time because these are brain chemicals that can change, but it can't change overnight. So that's a little bit of just understanding what is personality and what is it made of between nature and nurture and the four quadrant model. So now let's go through a little bit of a fun interactive piece here, which is defining the four quadrants. The first quadrant is what we call the eagle quadrant. So when you think about the bird, the eagle, Kevin, and the attributes of an eagle, what comes to your mind? I

kevin: 14:10

think America, I think free, I think, yeah, mostly freedom. I think that's the value that I think about the most. Yeah, absolutely. Do eagles fly high in the sky or lower to the ground?

Manish Shah: 14:20

High in the sky, unless they're like

kevin: 14:23

100% No, no,

Manish Shah: 14:25

you're a hundred percent, right? So these are your high flying birds. Humans with the eagle personality type, they're very strategic in nature because they have a big picture view of the world, just like an eagle does, right? When an eagle goes down to grab its fish from a stream or a river, do you recall, does that eagle glide down very slowly and calmly or do they swoop down very fast? Fast. Yes. So these are your fast acting birds. They don't have a lot of time for analysis. They actually don't need any data at all, right? Input. They take high risks and they have high rewards, right? So they go down, they grab their fish, they make a mistake and grab a twig, they throw it away and they come back and try again, right? So very bold, courageous, direct, and high decision-making ability. So that's your eagle personality style. And around 10% of the population have that eagle style, right? To the next bird type, which is your parrots. When you think about the parrots and the colors that are on a parrot in the tropical jungle near a beach, how does that make you What comes to your mind? Very vibrant, I guess.

kevin: 15:28

Yeah. Kind of playful. Like if we're thinking about the animal.

Manish Shah: 15:32

Exactly. We're thinking about the animal. They're very vibrant. They're very playful. They're talkative. If you recall, they love to talk a lot. 50-50 answer here. But when you go to a jungle in the tropics and you see a parrot in the tree, do you think the parrot's all alone in the tree? Or do you think there's multiple parrots in the same tree?

kevin: 15:47

They're pretty social creatures from what I remember.

Manish Shah: 15:49

Yeah. So parrots love to be around other birds and they talk a lot. Humans with the parrot character characteristic love to be around people. They love facilitation. They love networking events. They love happy hours. So they're very social in nature. Parrots are also very bright and colorful, and that creates creativity and innovation. So if you have parrots on your team, those are naturally your very creative innovation birds. They think a lot. They process very quickly ideas, and then they share their ideas verbally equally fast, right? So these are your fast acting, but also very enthusiastic So now the third bird type, so we'll put that personalized style away for a second, is your dove. So when you think about dove and the bird, the dove, which is white feathers, what are some characteristics of that that come to your mind?

kevin: 16:36

Loving.

Manish Shah: 16:37

Yes. Yeah. Loving, right? Gentle. What does the color white signify globally? Purity. purity and peace right so the humans with the dove personality type they're very quiet they listen more than they talk out of all four bird styles this is the one that listens the most talks the least they're very empathetic they listen with empathy and they when they fly in the sky they fly in pairs so humans with the dove tendencies love one-on-one conversations they love experiences like this get deep you know every session is almost like a therapy session and they listen more than they thought a lot of executive coaches that probably listen to this podcast or even customers who are interested in looking at executive coaching, there are probably going to be a lot of doves there because they listen more, they ask a few questions and they really understand how to connect with their customers, right? But they're also conflict diverse. They don't like a lot of conflict and doves don't like a lot of change, right? So a dove in real life, the bird, they have the same flight pattern back and forth. Humans with a dove personality type, once a process is working and in place, let's not change it. Let's not touch it. Let it be so that we can just keep doing what we're doing in a very optimized manner. So those are three of the four. Let's cover off the last one, the owl. So when you think about the bird, the owl, what comes to your mind? Wise. Yes. That's number one. What else? Yeah.

kevin: 17:59

I don't imagine them in too many groups either.

Manish Shah: 18:01

Yeah. They don't work in groups at all. They work individually. They work at night a lot. So you can imagine humans with the owl tendencies, they work really hard, but they work really long hours at night. That's when they get the most peace, when most people are not interacting because they like to work alone. Do you know anything about the owl's necks and eyes? It can rotate like crazy and they're huge. Yeah. So owls notice everything close by. They're very detailed oriented. They're very perceptive as to what's going on in their areas, right? Very different from the eagles. Remember the eagles, the high flying bird sees everything big picture strategic. The owl sees everything very close, detailed, oriented. Last question for you is what type of sound does an owl make? Yes. And that is a question in the English language or the human language, English language. So humans with the owl tendencies, they question everything. And their number one question is why? So if you put together decisions and give them an answer, they're going to first ask you why? What led us to that decision? They love to question everything. So those are your natural four personality types. And like I said, nobody can do all four all the time naturally, right? Two of them will be natural to you. They give you energy. And then two will take away energy from you. Now you can do it, but they take energy away from you. One in three can do three of them. And most amount is 7% of the people, a little less than one in 10 can only take on one. And I've done hundreds of assessments with teams, individuals, and I met everybody. It was of all combinations, but nobody can do all four naturally, as you can imagine. So this is a very powerful mnemonic and analogy, because now that you, everybody listening here, plus you have gone through even this little bit, of it, you will remember this rest of your life because what we did is we used natural mnemonics that you already had in your brain and just associated behaviors with them and teach you anything new. So as soon as you're done with this podcast, you can start looking at your friends, your family, your parents, your neighbor, coworkers, and start to at least bucket them as to what is their highest and what is their lowest bird type. If it's difficult for you, start with the lowest one, right? Because everybody you'll know does not have all four. So you'll know oh yeah, this person is not an eagle. What does that mean, not an eagle? That means they're not dominant. They're not bold. They're not making very high-flying decisions that are fast, without a lot of data, without a lot of analytics. They use a lot of gut feel, right? You can quickly identify if somebody's not that bird style. The parent, the bubbly, fun-loving, kind of flamboyant center of attention. So if you see somebody who doesn't have the enthusiasm and energy, they're probably going to be your traditional owl, who's much more even paste reserve. You know, the dove is all about other people. If you're in a meeting and somebody is talking a lot, putting their hand up a lot, they're not going to be a dove, right? Your doves are going to be the ones that are quiet most of the time. And then your owls are asking for data, asking for analysis. These are your process folks, process engineers, anything to do with methodologies, templates, even rules and regulations globally have been created by high dove personality types, right? So this is where you can use it in executive code. because there's a lot of conflict that happens in your career with your team members, people who report into you, people that are above you. And if you can start compartmentalizing them into these buckets, then if you were to sim as them, you'd be yourself, they'll be themselves, you're going to gel. But if you're opposite or different from them, then you need to figure out what you need to do to actually develop a strong relationship with them and reduce conflict, right? So if an eagle parrot, for instance, is working with an owl, type, you know, eagle and parrot combination working with an owl or a high owl personality type, what does the eagle parrot need to do, right? Eagle parrot needs to slow down. They need to be ready for a lot of questions, be analytical, get into the details. What can frustrate and actually exhaust, especially the eagle side of that pair, but for small periods of time, everybody can do it. If you find yourself in a role where you're doing this for long periods of time, that's where frustration comes in. I do this in career coaching all the time because I get into understanding what is your goals? Why are you frustrated? Why are you unhappy? And we uncover there's a little bit of a role mismatch. So I said, okay, that's fine. Let's do the personality assessment. And I find the opposites are always true, right? You have an eagle parrot who just ended up in a owl dove type role, a traditional HR role or analytics role where the eagle parrot really needs to be facilitating workshops or doing sales or networking or or presenting in front of large groups, right? Similarly, if you find a dove that's in a sales role where they need to have high impact sales that are very fast, they may not enjoy that career. And so I help them understand why they're frustrated, what changes they can make immediately, right? So there's things you can do with your boss, your team members to help you at least temporarily get some happiness and absolutely circumcised where you can be permanently happy. Now that you understand why you were frustrated before, You can adjust yourself and get elements to pull on the strengths of your personality and not focus as much on some of the exhaustive areas of your personality as well. And then there's some times where it validates. And, you know, 70-80% of the time, people just self-select good careers for themselves that they can be themselves. And we just validate that, yes, you did a great job. This is perfectly great for your personality. Now let's teach you how to read other people and work with other people types as you mature in your teams and organizations.

kevin: 23:44

It kind of reminds me of the, like, a lot of other, like, frameworks. I know there's, like, very similar quadrant-like frameworks. Something that comes to mind is, like, TRAECOM social styles and all that. These are a lot in corporate. But that's very interesting how you use it.

Manish Shah: 23:59

Yeah. So, you know, the TRAECOM and the other ones out there, again, I'm not trying to knock on any of them. They're all great. But what we've found systematically is that they don't change culture and they don't change behavior immediately because what those require is everybody to memorize how to use it for themselves. And then very, very quickly, if you look at somebody's LinkedIn or you go into an elevator, how do you quickly pull up the trade comm and say, oh yeah, I just met this person elevator and I can compliment them, put them in the buckets of that. It's very difficult, but with take flight and the birds, it's very easy, right? So let's just imagine a elevator ride. You can very quickly pick out the four bird types and everybody in the elevator, right? So your eagle, that's going to be your anxious person pressing the button a couple of times. They get frustrated when somebody gets in between the flow You can just feel that aggression and stress because they just want to get things done and they want to get to their floor very, very fast, right? If you think about an elevator ride with a parrot and everybody's quiet, it's the parrot that's going to can't stand silence. They're going to say, hey, how's everybody doing? Great weather out there. What are everybody up to, right? Because this parrot can't stand silence. They would make noise no matter what. The only bird type that will do that. If you think about the actual dub, this is the person who's very polite and they're going to focus on on safety and everybody else's needs. So they're going to let everybody else on the elevator first, make sure everybody's secure. And if there's not enough room, they're going to go on the next elevator, right? And then we have the owl, right? It's the perceptive one, risk averse. Like what is the worst thing that can happen here? They're looking at everybody. They're judging everybody. They're looking at how many people are on the elevator. They're reading the expiration date of the elevator certificate, how many people can fit on the elevator. So you can just see that kind of worriness in somebody. So this way, it's really easy just to get on a a 30-second elevator ride and bucket somebody. With the other instruments, it's very difficult to put them in a Myers-Briggs or put them in a Tracom or put them in a Hogan just off of a 30-second elevator ride. No matter if you could do this in an elevator ride, if you're at a dinner with a server, you could put them in one of the buckets. If you're at a store and interacting with the sales associate, you could put them in one of the buckets. It's just really easy to use this in everyday use. Not to say the other ones. The other ones probably have some more complexity Yeah. I do want to switch topic for a

kevin: 26:29

second. Sure. We talked a lot about kind of like how you do your engagements, how you use this assessment. One of the interesting things I'm kind of curious about is your future goals. And so as you've been in this kind of business for the last like four or five years, what have you been doing? five years. I guess, where do you want this coaching business to take you in the next few years? Do you have any like secret dreams, big ambitions, ideas for scaling? Kind of curious where you lie on that. Yeah, that's a great question.

Manish Shah: 26:55

Ultimately, if you think about just corporate world out there, you kind of got three buckets, right? You have the corporations, Fortune 1000, 2000 companies, you have mid-sized companies, you know, high growth, middle market, and then you have your small, medium businesses. So all three are actively possible and in terms of growth. When we think about the small, medium business and the middle market, that would be me growing my team over time, certifying more facilitators, training them on it, and then having a large set of executive coaches on my bench. And if you go to my website, you'll see that I have eight to nine coaches already there that have gone through similar certifications as I have, not as focused on the team building aspect of it, but take on executive coaching clients, right? If we're looking at the top tier, Fortune 1000, 2000, that'll be more like a solopreneur for myself. And the goal there is to really get in touch with the talent management team, the HR team. And so once I get in there, then I can just be part of their roster as a contractor to run workshops with their executive teams, with the sales team, with the operations team, engineering team, T team. And a typical workshop, like I told you, would be anywhere from two to three hours. And I've done anywhere from 4000 and $5,000 of revenue just off of a three-hour workshop with maybe 20 to 30 executives. And what I like about the corporate side is that they often come in and then they'll get me the next team, right? So one HR person may join a workshop and then they're supporting another team, maybe in a different geography or even a warehouse. It's a, hey Manish, let's go ahead and do that warehouse, right? Bringing up warehouse for a second, an actual question that may come up is, you know, what percentages do I do in person and what percentage do I do online? So I love to do my workshops in person. If teams have budget and can fly me and they're not in Atlanta, then that would be great to facilitate in person. I'm hitting about 25% of my workshops in person. So most of my workshops are online. And there's a couple of reasons why they're online, right? Nothing to do with budget. It's just that teams are distributed and post pandemic teams are just comfortable working of a hybrid. And so they don't get in person as often. But the power of what I do, is I do provide a human connection. So even after a small workshop, decision makers often come back and say, hey, Vinicius, this is great, but I agree with you. Let's put the team together because there's nothing like breaking bread and doing a handshake in person together. And then we can look at how do we do executive coaching locally as well in person. But those are some ideas in terms of scaling over time. That's a good question. I think one thing that came to my mind immediately, which I think a lot of people would notice, is just a lot of transition going on right now. So I get more people that are opinioning me specifically for executive coaching because they're in transition between, you know, a job that they just had or are planning on leaving and the next job that they want to get. In all cases, I do even the personality assessment as my first meeting with them. Maybe the second meeting, right? The first meeting is this goal setting, understanding their objectives, seeing if I'm a good chemistry fit, that type of thing. But the second one then is really focused on the personality, and then helping them understand what types of jobs, even if they've been in a career for a while, what types of job careers or codes would be ideal for them, and then helping them pivot. So I think the two trends, if I summarize them, is many more people that are in transition, but I'm seeing a lot of pivoting because of frustration or unhappiness after years of doing something that they've done, and they did not realize the reason why they're frustrated because of mismatch of the job title and the job area. and the types of skills that are required and their personality.

kevin: 30:47

I see. How can people find you and connect with you?

Manish Shah: 30:50

So the easiest way is to just to get some time on my calendar. And that's easy. It's easy. Calendly slash forward slash epics team. E-P-Y-X-T-E-A-M. And I have various options to meet up with me. There's a half an hour quick catch up. If you want to go ahead and do the personality assessment with me, I just grab one hour of time. And the minimum charge there is $50. But if you are part of a larger team and can get access to more customers, I'll definitely give away the assessment and or my time for free as well. And then I do have a website called epixteambuilding.com. That's E-P-Y-X and then teambuilding.com. So those would be the two easiest ways to get in touch with me. One thing I'll just add on is when you go look at my Calendly link, you'll see some innovative other times that you can spend time with me, right? So it's not within 30 minutes, It's catch up. There's a one hour personality assessment debrief. We talked about the families and the couples. So I do an hour and a half with you and a spouse or you as spouse and your family members, whether they're younger or older. And then I do have a number of two hour workshops that are out there. So one is team building and executive coaching with a game show experience. So what that does is it gives you a chance to actually play a version of Family Feud or Jeopardy and you get to see the actual manners and characteristics and personality come to life. And then we align around what is the individual goals and what are the team goals and get alignment around that in a fun, interactive way. I also offer a team building, a scavenger hunt, which is like an amazing race. So it's similarly competitive like the game show experience, but that one's more like Jeopardy, Family Feud, Prices Right. This one is, and that one I can do online or in person, the game show experience, but the actual scavenger hunt or amazing race, those are in person. And so we would get into a city together, downtown area, and there's a bunch of clues. You break up in the team. It's high paced. People get to the finish line fast and have to solve clues. And you get to see some of that personality come out again. And then we also still do the debrief with understanding what your individual executive coaching goals are and your team goals. And the last product that you'll see out there on my Calendly link is a team building with charity. And that's really neat because what we do is we do a competitive game But we build bicycles. And so as you build your bicycle, you have to earn points to then get bicycle parts. And these bicycles are actually for children. And teams win for second, third. So similar to the first two, there's always winners. And you get to see in very high stress environments, that's when personalities come out. But what we do in the team building with charity is that we have the charity come in with the children and we give away the bicycles, which is very touching for the children, very touching for the facilitators. And obviously all the people who go through the workshop love it. because they're giving back to society as well. So when you go to the link, you'll see all those kind of additional products that are out there in addition to executive coaching too. It was a pleasure. It was all mine. And thank you for having me.

Davis Nguyen: 33:55

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