Inside Edge Advisory: Guiding Leaders Through Change with Ajit Menon & Jack Pijl

 In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, host Rexhen sits down with Dr. Ajit Menon and Jack Pijl, founders of Inside Edge Advisory, to explore what it really takes to build a consulting and coaching practice that lasts. From investing in the right foundations like a strong brand story and authentic relationships, to navigating the challenges of scaling and competing with larger firms, Ajit and Jack share lessons learned from decades in leadership, psychology, and organizational change. Discover why knowing your niche, building trust, and co-creating solutions with clients matter more than certifications or quick fixes.




Connect with

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/menonab/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-pijl-54002938/

Transcript

Dr. Ajit Menon: 0:00

You have a good shop window that tells your story properly. These are all things I think that is completely worth investing in before... before running away and kind of going into the market and then finding yourself lost in the sea of people who are very similar to you. So those are things I think I'll say. In terms of investments that we have made that we regret at this point, luckily we're not in that place yet. So fingers crossed.

Jack Pijl : 0:22

Yeah. And I think what I would add, so a couple of years ago, I invested into a marketing coach because I was going to set up my kind of practice on the side of my practice. And the marketing coach really kind of helped me to say, who are you? What is it that you like to do? Who you like to work with? What is your target market? What is your niche? What are you good at helping with people? And I think that really helped me kind of target and pinpoint the client said, you know, I can actually help rather than becoming someone who's, well, I can help anyone and I can coach anyone because I don't think that's necessarily the case. So it's really knowing yourself. I think that's been a really good investment for me.

Davis Nguyen: 1:00

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My My name is Davis Nguyen, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching business myself, and I've been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Rexhen Doda: 1:31

Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm your host, Regan, and today's guests are Dr. Ajit Menon and Jack Powell, two-season leadership specialists who bring complementary approaches to helping senior leaders and boards navigate complexity, transition, and change with their new company called Inside Edge Advisory. Ajit is a strategic advisor, organizational psychologist, and co-author of What Lies Beneath, known for uncovering the deeper dynamics that shape organizational life and guiding top teams through cultural and leadership transformation. Jack is a leadership coach and psychotherapist, blending executive coaching with psychological insight to help leaders strengthen authority, build resilient teams, and thrive during times of change. Together, they share a wealth of experience at the intersection of business, psychology, and leadership, equipping leaders to unlock their potential while reshaping organizations for lasting impact. It's a pleasure for me to have you guys both on the podcast today. Welcome to the show. Talk Dr. Ajit and Jack Powell. Thank you very much. You're welcome, guys. Yeah, it's a pleasure. And for anyone who's been following our podcast for a while now, it's the first time that I have two guests. So this is going to be a great podcast. I wanted to ask you guys, when it comes to your beginnings with Inside Edge Advisory, looking to the business, first of all, what inspired you to start Inside Edge Advisory? And parts of it also include coaching. So I want to understand what inspired you to start this. Sure.

Dr. Ajit Menon: 3:06

Shall I jump in, Jack? and then you can add on to that from there on. And you know, Rajen, I think both of us have had long careers in corporate and also consulting and doing a number of different things. And I think we decided that perhaps it's time for us to start a consultancy, start an advisory business that has clear strategic clarity and able to give clients strategic clarity, but with psychological depth, which is what both of us bring. And also that creates change that has lasting impact. We seen and in our experiences, both being internal, being external, in my own role as being a chief people officer in a big bank, far too many consultancies focus on system structures and strategy without really looking at the human dynamics of what's going to go on and what derails some of that. So we wanted to bring together all of this in something that was surgically precise and create an advisory practice that could be a trusted advisor to leaders and help them really think about their strategy, but with the human side of it, more specifically, the dynamic human side of it that goes from there. So that's what sparked our thinking when we started creating this

Jack Pijl : 4:17

advisory practice. What would you add, Jack? Yeah, absolutely. I think we see so many things or we have seen so many things when we both worked in corporate where things have just gone wrong or there's too many things involved, many politics going on and nobody's actually addressing the real problem. And I think through our psychological lenses, we can really kind of get to the bottom of these things and really help organizations get to where they want to be faster and quicker in a more

Rexhen Doda: 4:45

sophisticated way. Absolutely. And so it's great because, yeah, just like you mentioned also, Ajit, is that a lot of people are so focused on systems and strategy, but not a lot of people take the whole holistic approach when you think about leaders. We're also human too. So there's a lot that goes in that. And so... And I think about the ideal client profile that you guys typically work with. I didn't mention this earlier, but we have in this podcast, we have two groups of people that typically listen to the podcast. One of them is coaches that could be career coaches, executive coaches, leadership coaches. The other group of audiences is the audiences of the coaches we've had on the show before because they've shared the podcast episode with their LinkedIn profiles and their email list. So we've borrowed some of their audience as well which means we might be reaching out to an audience of leaders too that you guys could be helping so How would you describe the ideal client profile? Is there some sort of an industry, demographic, psychographic? Do they have some common goals or other commonalities?

Dr. Ajit Menon: 5:55

Our experience lends itself to working very well with financial services. And we've been doing a lot of work in our careers in banking, in wealth management, in insurance, in all the different sectors of financial services. So we know how to swim those waters really well. But I think that, and Jack, I hope you'll agree with me on this. our ideal clients usually are, we're talking about C-suite or CEOs of organizations. Usually organizations are going through change and transition. That's what we're very good at helping with. People who want to, either they're looking to divest or they're looking to merge or they're looking to create internal change and transformation that's going on. And that's where we're really able to do a lot of work because between the two of us and our associates and our team that we have, so we have a very strong team of people who work with us. We bring that ability to be able to impact change and transformation in a very different way. So for us, ideal clients usually are senior leaders. And I'm talking about senior leaders are usually the CEO and the C-suite who are working and who are grappling with and who are swimming in those waters of change challenges that they have and working with them on that basis. And the kinds of companies usually are, I mean, we work with all kinds of businesses in our careers, big banks to more SMEs to smaller businesses But I think ideally for us, we want to work with clients who are engaged about thinking about this kind of way. I think that's really important. We need to have a sophisticated audience of people who want to work in this kind of way, who really want to get below what the problem is rather than just trying to find a quick solution to what is the presenting issue that they have.

Jack Pijl : 7:34

Yeah. And I think it's really important that we work with from the top down almost because we've been working with organizations and we've run programs and facilitated it and coached people on all levels of in the organization from the grad program, for example, like Ajit said, to the C-suite. And the C-suite is really the place where change and cultural change, for example, really has to start. Like people at the bottom, like grads or even middle management, they don't really have that much of influence of what the tone is going to be for that organization. So it has to be done with the C-suite and ideally the CEO and to really be the front runner and the advocate, I guess, of the change or the cultural change that they are looking to achieve. A

Dr. Ajit Menon: 8:17

lot in our experience we've found is that people, organizations or clients will usually come to us with a problem, but they'll also come to us with the solution that they want. And I think our ideal clients are clients who are able to sit with the vulnerability, sit with the problem a little longer to be able to engage with what is exactly going on behind what we're seeing. Because usually the first solution you come to is not necessarily the solution of the problem you have. It's usually the solution to get rid of the anxiety of having the problem. And going through that process, that's a really confronting process where we work with the organization, work with the leadership team, work with them with a coaching stance to truly understand what sits behind this. And then we can start working on a transformational journey with them. So I think both of us and our team, we are very much of the view that we need to first be able to uncover. When you come to us and said, can you help us with this? If this is the answer, what is the question? to really help to think about that.

Jack Pijl : 9:16

Yeah, we don't jump in with solutions straight away or go with the solution that the client would want. We work from the point of view. We'll come and have a chat with you. We'll come and do a diagnostic piece of work to really understand what's behind all of this. What are the other people saying? What are the other people experiencing? How are they feeling within the organization? And then when we pulled all that data together, then we'll say, okay, now we think here are some interventions that we can suggest. And often one of that will be a facility process, that could be a leadership development program. And there often is also executive coaching involved

Rexhen Doda: 9:52

in that. And I believe maybe oftentimes the problem and the solution they come with might not be the one that you actually end up uncovering to later. Absolutely. Yeah.

Dr. Ajit Menon: 10:03

And of course, we can help you with that. But let's just understand what is that going to solve? Because, you know, the thing is, I think if you jump too quickly into the solution bit of it, and I think a lot of consultants end up in this trap of is it's a question of you want to be able to please the client and keep the client commercially. But what happens is you deliver something that's either non-sustaining, you deliver something that's not really going to solve what the real problem is, and then you find yourself in a different kind of a situation. So I think that is a stance that we take quite strongly. And so going back to your previous question, we really need to find, we work with clients who want to

Rexhen Doda: 10:38

work in that way. Absolutely. So, and all of it makes sense to me is when we think about the engagement that you guys have with these companies and these leaders, what is the engagement like? Is there some sort of a program of a certain length? Is it one-on-one coaching? We were talking earlier too, that there could be also team coaching at the same time. How is it like to work with you?

Dr. Ajit Menon: 11:01

So I think that commoditizes it. And what we don't like to do is to say, here's a toolkit and here's all the suites. What do you want? Because that makes it, that changes the dialogue and changes the tone of what we're trying to do. We work very strongly in a currency called process and process not necessarily in terms of in a mechanical way but process more in the thing of dialogue are we having the right conversation about the right issue and the right problem at the right time with the right people I think that's really important so to work with us is that you will find that we will start the dialogue and start the conversation around that before even jumping into here's a leadership program or here's coaching that might come or very sometimes it might so be that through the initial engagement with us both you the client and us might realize we're not the right consultancy for you because what you need is something far different to what we can deliver so an engagement with us really starts with a very strong confronting robust dialogue around what is the circumstances you find yourself in client and then let's together co-create what could be the solution see I think again if we come to you and say here's something we can give you, you don't have skin in the game. In order for change to be lasting, it's not always a consultant that needs to deliver on it. The organization needs to work with us in a partnership. And so that's why this whole idea of co-creating, what could that solution be? Of course, we'll bring our expertise and our experience. Of course, we'll bring our competence and do all that into it. But let's build this together because that's when change will really

Rexhen Doda: 12:37

stick. Absolutely. So it's not a done for you and there's no such thing anyway. And right now, when thinking about these companies, we're not just focusing We work happens. One of the

Dr. Ajit Menon: 12:50

principles that I think we work on is that good consulting is like a scaffolding. At some point, you need to take out the scaffolding so that the building can shine in the sunlight. Therefore, a good consultant needs to make themselves redundant at some point. And so what we're trying to do with this organization in terms of the culture work really is to be able to coach the leadership team in how can they work through what is a culture, how can they work How can they build it? What is the behaviors required? Really work with them on that. But then support them in being able to take it down to the next levels. And once they start taking it down to the next levels, we step away. We have given them the skills, the tools, and the competence and the insight to be able to build it themselves. So it's about really helping the organization build their own muscle, not use us as a surrogate muscle in the process. I think that's really a very important thing. And I think, Jack, it sticks with the coaching philosophy, isn't it?

Jack Pijl : 13:42

Absolutely. And what we don't want to become is the crowd. that they are going to be leaning on for the rest of their lives for example because that doesn't change anything because that would mean that we run that organization in the background actually they need to lead their organization from the front

Rexhen Doda: 13:55

so absolutely it's an interesting industry and I say this many times with the coaches that I have on the podcast in your case it's not all about coaching but still in a way you were kind of like working your way out of the relationship once everything is done you're working your way out of the relationship just like Jack you said you're not going to be running the company in the background they need to be adjusting and running the company in the background. So when thinking about the marketing side of it, and this is going to be a question that other coaches are going to find interesting, where do you guys right now find your clients or meet your clients? Is there a certain marketing channel that you see working really well for you?

Jack Pijl : 14:31

Yeah, I think we have a good, what's called a black book from existing or kind of old clients or old organizations who we've worked with and we've done some good work with them. So we've come back to them and said, look, we're launching a new organization and Let's have a chat. And those things often become quite fruitful because they're interested in what we do. They obviously, they know us. But really, after that, it becomes word of mouth. It's really, it's what we do, how well we do it. People and leaders, organizations will talk about us. They will recommend us. And that's how we get the work coming in on a sustainable basis. Of course, you also need to do your marketing on the side. You need to be present on, for example, LinkedIn, which is probably our market. But we're also, probably other people would also would be on Instagram, for example, or on X or on other kind of social media platforms. And that would really help kind of getting people, getting attention to your website, for example, and attention to the good work that we're ultimately delivering. I

Dr. Ajit Menon: 15:28

think there's a couple of things to add on to that, Jack. I think they're just spot on in terms of as we start off, a lot of it is based upon networks and relationships. We believe very strongly that people are not buying consultants, especially in this kind of work. They're not buying consultants. They're not buying coaches. Nobody buys a coach. They buy a relationship. And I think that is what is really important here. It's about how can you do that. Now, in order to be able to scale though, it doesn't only be able to rely on a black book because at some point you'll finish all the pages of your black book and then what? So in order to be able to scale, I think it's really important to be able to be out there, to engage in thought leadership, to be very, very involved with the zeitgeist. What's going on in the world right now and how can you kind of get involved and work with that? When you're selling a product, it's very different because People need cars. You can always go and sell a car. But when you're selling advice, advice is based entirely upon that trusted relationship that you build with the person who's buying it. That's what makes it very, very different in terms of how do you actually find yourself in that position. And you know what? We're not for everybody. We're not for everybody. And I think that's also really important. So lots of conversations, lots of putting yourself out there in terms of, as Jack says, of course, you use your channels of the usual social media channels. But in order for us... the kind of clients that we work with, a lot of it also depends upon us really being able to build those relationships and have those conversations with people. So it might be at events, for example, attending networking events, attending industry events, and really being able to speak to people, but from an authentic way, not from a, I have something to push and sell on your way, because that doesn't build a relationship. And I think that's really what's important for us. It's a relational consultancy rather than a

Rexhen Doda: 17:11

commodity based one. Absolutely. And so I will I also wanted to talk to you guys, to talk with you guys about the future of Inside Edge Advisory. So looking to the next one to three years, do you have any specific goals that you're working towards?

Dr. Ajit Menon: 17:27

Yes, I think we've spoken about this quite a lot. As I said, what we know really well is financial services. And what would be great for us is to start thinking about other sectors and other industries. And that I think is something in the next few years. First, we want to be able to get back into the waters we know really well and then start looking at new waters to swim in. I think that would be a goal for us in terms of how we build this.

Rexhen Doda: 17:50

And do you see right now, even with the current business that you have, what would you say are kind of like some of the main challenges that you guys are facing business-wise? You mean us or the client businesses? Mostly on the side of inside edge advisory. So kind of like, what are some of the challenges? And this is a question like other coaches are going to find useful. So it's from the perspective of a coach. Yeah.

Dr. Ajit Menon: 18:12

I think, look, I think going to market when a market is also the way it is right now it is challenging and tough it's not just for us it's for everybody i think sometimes what ends up happening is that as a small business you end up coming up against larger more established brands that's why i say the relationships in the beginning are always really important because then people will buy the relationship not necessarily the brand so for us it's about you know the competition the market is quite high and you know especially in western europe the economies are such that people are you know questioning their spend so it's about thinking about how do you actually find your way into spaces with the right kind of clients and relationships who a lot of people need this work a lot of people need this work who don't know they need this work a lot of people know they need this work but don't want to go there because it might they feel or they fear that both the commercial cost but also the emotional cost the organization's too high so it's about trying to find that right sweet spot of of clients who we can reach out to and build so that is quite hard and quite challenging especially the market where the people are currently tightening their purse strings and thinking what that is. That's the one thing. I think a second thing also is as we get more busy is to be able to scale, to make sure we have the right competence, the right team around us to be able to deliver, which is also quite important for us to be thinking about. What else can you think about, Jack, the stuff that we've been talking about?

Jack Pijl : 19:35

Gosh, now I think you've mentioned all of it. I can't really think of anything else. Yeah.

Rexhen Doda: 19:40

Yeah. Well, it's definitely a challenge, I think, especially for Western Europe. And it's also a cultural thing I believe that when we think about the coaching side of it, the rest of it, it makes sense. It's more common. But when you think about the coaching side of it in Europe is not as big. Right. And I see that with coaches that I've spoken to from UK mostly. And there's not many coaches that I've spoken to from Europe, to be honest. It's just that coaching is not as common or like believing in coaching is not as big as, let's say, in the United States or North America mostly. So, yeah, it's a real challenge. But I feel like that's over time going to be something that's going to be more common in Europe over time. Yeah, it's one of those things that will take a little bit of time. I also want to touch upon another topic and goes through the research paper that we're going to build as well at the end of this year. We're thinking about in terms of investments that coaches have made, what have been some investments that you guys feel really good about? Either you learned a lot or got a good return from or investments that you would have preferred to have avoided if there's any bad investments as well? I think the

Jack Pijl : 20:54

obvious one to start with, I guess you need to invest in good websites. You need to have a good front shop that needs to look good, needs to look slick, needs to tell the right story. Clients need to be able to identify with it. And I think what you said earlier on is that the UK market isn't necessarily as educated as what this type of work could be for organizations. So I think some leadership onto our website and what we put out there is also to educate perhaps the UK economy actually what this work actually do for you so that will be kind of a challenge I would add I

Dr. Ajit Menon: 21:32

think investment of time you know before running off to market I think really it's very important from a coaching point of view as well or consulting point of view before running off to market being very very in the time to be able to hone in on and be surgically precise about what your proposition is there are lots of coaches lots of consultants out there in the market everybody offers more or less a similar kind of a being very very as to what is your unique differentiator why should someone want to work with you that is an investment of time that i think is very very um spending the time to really reflect on that and also i think that you know as jack says i mean you know you have a good shop window that tells your story properly these are all things i think that that is complete worth investing in before running away and kind of going into the market and then finding yourself lost in a sea of people who are very similar to you. So those are things I think I'll say. In terms of investments that we have made that we regret at this point, luckily, we're not in that place yet. So fingers crossed.

Jack Pijl : 22:35

Yeah. And I think what I would add, so a couple of years ago, I invested into a marketing coach because I was going to set up my kind of practice on the side of my practice. And a marketing coach really kind of helped me to say, who are you? What is it that you like to do? Who do you like to work with? What is your target market? What is your niche? What are you good at helping with people? And I think that really helped me kind of target and pinpoint. The client said, you know, I can actually help rather than becoming someone who, well, I can help anyone and I can coach anyone because I don't think that's necessarily the case. So it's really knowing yourself. I think that's been a really good investment for myself.

Rexhen Doda: 23:13

Absolutely. And able to stand out, right? The coaching industry keeps on growing right now. So it's something that standing out, being authentic. And in case of like the Europe market, like without leadership and making sure that you can push also, because the need is there for sure. The need is there for coaching is just that the awareness that there are ways you could get help is not as big or maybe believing that this is the type of help that actually can make a change in you is that is going to happen over time. Great that you haven't had any bad investments, but to give you some perspective on what we've seen from our last research that we did last year is mostly from the coaching side of it. One of the investments that turned out to have the lowest return on investment was actually certifications for coaches. They happen to have the lowest return. Not that like when you think about it as you want to be certified because you want to learn and train yourself and to be a better coach, that makes sense. But when you're thinking about it, just having a title under your name that you're certified on a certain coaching industry that actually didn't work out that well for coaches in the past. So yeah, something to think about if you guys were considering certifications in the future.

Dr. Ajit Menon: 24:29

That's quite helpful actually, Rajen, what you said, because you know what, it's interesting is that certifications usually get asked by the procurement team when they're procuring services, not by the actual coach or the client. I think that is actually very, very helpful. Usually when you're coaching at some point, it is about the relationship that you build with them, the spark that happens in the moment of the coaching chemistry session. The certification usually is only a foot in the door when you're going to a large organization and the procurement team wants to make sure that you have some kind of standardization that's there. That I think is the only thing. So I agree with you, you know, and it's about where do you want to play and being very clear about that in terms of what is there.

Rexhen Doda: 25:07

And of

Dr. Ajit Menon: 25:08

course, if you use this as a part of building, being a part of a community and you get something from it, then fantastic. You must use it then, you know.

Jack Pijl : 25:16

It depends on what your target market is. So if your target market is purely large organizations, then you have to get through a procurement or a learning and development kind of deal. And they often then will say, well, who are you affiliated with? Who certified you? Or what qualifications do you have? But if that's not your target market, then it's absolutely a waste of money completely because it doesn't mean anything to it. It's purely the trust and the relationship.

Dr. Ajit Menon: 25:40

On the contrary, though, and I think that I've seen this in my career over the period of time, lots of people do certificate in coaching over a weekend and start coaching. You know, I think that is, A, that is very dangerous because, you know, to be able to coach, you need to be also completely invested in your own self and your own development and your own responses to what comes up in the coaching relationship. I tell you this, and I put my career on this, you're not going to get anything from a weekend coaching course or start helping you coach. I think it's really, really something to say that. So investing in proper education and training in something that is grounded in really good framework and background is important. It could be any kind of framework. It could be the framework that you work in. But I think that spending the time to have good supervision, spending the time and money to have a good peer network of supervision as well, and being able to get yourself qualified appropriately is investment that is worth it no matter what. And clients can tell very quickly. They don't care about your coaching qualification, but they can tell the quality of of your coaching based upon the kind of background you come from your experience and your competence that you have developed and I think that is something to think about

Rexhen Doda: 26:55

absolutely I totally agree with you Ajit and you're right that like if you're doing some sort of certification that just like it is not actually going to teach you what you need to know you might end up doing more harm than good as a coach and at the other side of it like you mentioned Jack is that if you're going after companies big corporations are actually that is true they are going to ask for certification. But the client, the end client, will not be aware of what this certification is or will not really care. So if you're working with individual clients and not have to go through the company, then it makes sense that the certification is not really valuable. But if you're going through the company, then yeah, it's just a way for you to get the foot on the door because they have to filter out some coaches. So in a way, it makes sense for them, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's that much of a difference for the client at the end so totally agree with that having said which

Dr. Ajit Menon: 27:51

being a part of a like the ICF or EMCC can be quite valuable because of the thought leadership that comes out of it the peer network that you can build and the community that you have so if you think about it like that you're not doing the if you do the certification just for the badge it's a complete waste of money if you do the certification to be part of a community and get something from it then it's really worth it because then coaching can be a very very profession especially if you're not part of a firm so joining a like that is usually valuable to be able to build your network build your own professional competence and do a lot of that as well but do it for the right reason I would say do it for the right reason

Jack Pijl : 28:29

yeah and I think also to stay relevant like you need to meet up with your peers you need to go to these network events because people talk about things that know if you work by yourself and very insular then you're just standing still in a way yeah and clients will eventually realize that and know that because you can only take them that far and they can they can know that you're not actually doing anything else around it. So be in the community, be out there, stay relevant, stay present. That's really important.

Rexhen Doda: 28:55

So I agree with both of you guys. As it is an industry that is ever-changing, evolving and growing, yeah, you got to keep up with it. When thinking about growth at the same time, we were talking about scaling earlier as well. A lot of coaches, many coaches are actually driven by impact. They want to make a change in someone's life. That's why most coaches typically work with leaders as well because they can make a bigger impact. And in your case, you're also working with leaders or the editors. What advice would you give to other coaches who are thinking of scaling their impact? And it could be an advice you kind of give to yourself since you're also driving impact and you're also driven by impact. And when you say scale their impact, you mean? Grow your impact. So impact poor people, make change in more people's lives. Okay. From a coaching perspective, it's always, yeah. Scaling and growing impact. Impact basically would be working with more leaders in a way. Or you can think of it to make it even simpler. You can remove the word impact out of it. And it's just scale because impact comes with it still.

Dr. Ajit Menon: 29:59

Yeah, no, I was trying to bring the two things together. So I look from my point of view, in order to be able to scale and get out there, right? A couple of things. One is you need to be out there. I think we've already said this in the conversation. You need to be out there. You need to be actively involved with communities, involved with networks involved so that people start getting to know you in that sense that's the only way you'll be able to scale what you're doing and also be authentic and true to your core what kind of a coach do you want to be I think I would say that be really really clear about what kind of coach do you want to be therefore what kind of assignments are you going to work on so that you can be very specific and be known for something and I think people can be okay fine you know X is really awesome at helping people with career transitions or Y is the person to go to if you're going to have, I don't know, you're making big change decisions in your organization. So I think it's about being very clear about what kind of coach you are, what is your specialism in terms of your competence and what you can work with. And that starts building your brand in a very specific way with precision as well.

Jack Pijl : 31:03

Yeah, and I think delivering just really good, authentic, strong work, because ultimately it's a trust that you build with your coachee and will then start to recommend you because they're part of a network. And often these people talk to each other and say, oh, I've done this I've done that I've come across somebody really excellent in this or they say oh I have a problem in my organization what do you think and then say oh I might know someone so it's really it's not always about it's what you know it's very much who you know and how you get recommended I think that's how you can also really scale but you just need to sit behind it of course

Rexhen Doda: 31:35

absolutely thank you so much Jack and thank you so much Ajit for coming to our podcast today it was lovely to have you both on the show for anyone who wants to connect with you or find you guys they can find you You're both on LinkedIn, so Jack Powell and Dr. Jit Mannan, they will be able to find your profiles. And when it comes to the website, is there a website we can send people to as well? Yes, you can find us at inside.uk. We'll put that in the description as well so people can click it easily. But thank you so much, guys. It was lovely to have you on the podcast. Fantastic. Thank you.

Davis Nguyen: 32:10

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever Bye. Bye. Bye.