How Ken Jacobs Built an 18-Year Coaching Career on Trust and Ease

In this episode, host Kevin sits down with leadership coach Ken Jacobs to unpack the philosophy of “Make it easy, but never cheap.” They explore how to structure coaching engagements that honor your worth and reduce friction for buyers, whether that means flexible payment schedules or simply positioning yourself as the undeniable expert. Ken also shares his journey from PR executive to 18-year coaching veteran, building a niche in agency leadership and developing a service-first approach to business development. From leveraging LinkedIn to mastering neuroscience-backed leadership, this conversation is packed with real numbers, real strategy, and real heart.

Connect with

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacobsconsultingcoaching
Website: https://www.jacobscomm.com/

Transcript

Ken Jacobs: 0:00

Make it easy for them to say yes. Make it easy. Don't take less than you should get to live a life of abundance for you, but make it easy for your clients to say yes. Make it easy. And I have found that a few bills over six months, sometimes rather than but then I've had others that we sent the bill and they said, Okay, fine. We're signed up anyway, we'll pay you. Okay. That certainly works for me to not have to invoice you again. And I I've had others say, Can you invoice us every month? And that's a lot of admin work.

Davis Nguyen : 0:31

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're in a salvage coach or building your practice for the first time, go discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Kevin: 1:02

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcasts. I'm Kevin, and today we are joined by Ken Jacobs. He is the founder of Jacobs Consulting and Executive Coaching. He's been in the coaching industry since 2007, which means 18 years of coaching. And then prior to the coaching, he's in the PR industry for over 25 years. Welcome to the show, Ken.

Ken Jacobs: 1:22

Thank you.

Kevin: 1:23

I'm honored to be here. Well, it's an honor to have you here because you have quite a history with not only coaching, but also PR. And so I would love to hear the origin story, the lore, uh, the story about what got you in this industry and make it make a business out of it.

Ken Jacobs: 1:40

Yeah. So I was in PR right out of college. I got into management early, leadership early. I I think if I can without bragging, I was kind of a wunder kid. Um, lot of responsibility, lots of billings to manage early on. But as often happens, at age 50, things kind of, I don't know if exploded is the right word, but I had to be honest and realize that my PR agency positions, and I've been very honest about this before, were of shorter and shorter duration. And adding to the honesty, not always by my choice. So at age 50, I was without a job, and I really had to think about a few things. How hard it is to find a job in PR after 50. There is age and ageism in this industry, for sure. And that seems to be the year where it kicks in. And then I just knew I needed to find something else. I needed to find something more fulfilling for me. So I actually worked with a coach. We created a new vision for my career, and that vision was consulting, training, and coaching, primarily, though not exclusively, for people in PR agencies, leaders, comms, marketing, advertising. Over the years, the ratio has changed, and every year there's more and more coaching, which tells me a few things. Maybe I'm getting good at it, so I'm getting repeat gigs and lots of referrals and recommendations. But kidding aside, for me, I always say I like the consulting and I got repeat business and I love the training. I love when you'd be presenting to a classroom and you see light bulbs going off, or you think you see light bulbs going off. But coaching was really became a calling. And as we say as coaches, coaching is not what you do, it's who you are. And I think to be a really good coach, it's gotta be who you are. It's gotta be in your brain and your heart and your soul. And the good news is, you know, you add up 25 plus years PR, you add up, did we say 16 years coaching, you can guess my age, which I embrace. The good news is I don't right now have a retirement plan because with coaching, you can coach forever if you want. And I always say, as long as I'm getting gigs, as long as I'm good, as long as I get repeat business, why stop something so fulfilling? It'd be crazy. So that's where we are at this point.

Kevin: 4:12

I love it because I think there's like a preconception of getting older and retirement and phasing out. And it's really amazing how you're able to take your previous life of PR and kind of transform it into your next phase of your life as well. And I'm kind of curious. So when you were working with that coach, how did you discover your ideal client avatar or like target audience or who you want to help?

Ken Jacobs: 4:38

Well, we started with my recollection is, and this is something I use with my clients, we kind of did a Venn diagram. One circle, what am I really good at? Better than others. You have to own that. Um, you know, really have raving clients. The next circle is what are you passionate about? And the third circle is like, where is there a market? What will people pay you so that you can live a life of abundance, whatever that life of abundance means for you. And I think the reason you need all three is if you're not really good at it, right? You're not gonna have, you're just not gonna attract that business, you're not gonna win the business. The passion is important because if you're a coach, you are a small business owner, you were an entrepreneur, you're always doing biz dev. And it was a slightly different hat coming from the agency side where, yeah, I was a new business builder, but for the agency, not for me. Once you're in coaching, you're doing biz dev and marketing the rest of your career. So because that can be challenging and frustrating sometimes, though of course fulfilling, you got to be passionate about it. And then finally, you need to look at, I think, what will pay you enough so that you can live a life of abundance, whatever that life of abundance means for you, because you gotta make a buck. Whatever, again, whatever that is for you. So we did that, and so we realized number one, it would be serving the PR world. That's where I had my connections. It would be serving PR agencies primarily and departments and leaders, but also, as I say, marketing and advertising. And by creating this, I would be pursuing work from people who had been my peers or who had worked for me or who had been my clients. And I was very fortunate my whole career. I just had great agents when I was on the agency side, great clients. And even the one who was the most difficult, I adore her because I learned so much and she challenged me to be so much better. And we're friends to this day. So again, it was going to be serving those communities, consulting, coaching, and training, and then and then let's see what the market wants. So I am a trained facilitator, but the training was many years ago for ideation sessions, which are better than brainstorms, and I never got a market for it. No one wanted to hire me for that. So when you create if if you do go into coaching and you create this career vision, well, any career vision, I guess, that's gonna change. The marketplace will tell you what it wants you for and what it's willing to pay you well for. So, you know, you've got to be listening. But it is kind of ironic. You know, early in my career, I became the number two at an agency. Mat different agencies, but I was around number two. I never thought I wanted my own business, never thought I wanted the responsibility. So it was a big leap for me to suddenly become an entrepreneur. What was it about that? What was it about that? Well, let's think no more paid holidays, no more paid sick days, no more paid vacation days. You want to start with that? Fortunately, my my wife's a teacher, and as you probably know, as a teacher, the salary is not great. She's a special needs children teacher, actually, but it was good healthcare over the years. So that helped. Lord knows how anyone on their own funds their own healthcare, you know? So it was a little frightening, but it also gave me some freedom. My best friend was a marketer. He worked for food and wines from Spain. He worked for Ralston Purina, I think. He had his own sales business. He's now in the movie industry. Go figure. Great, great filmmaker and actor and director. Can I say his name? Sure. Go ahead. Jack Vincent. Jack Vincent. Winning awards. Anyway, that's not the point of the story. The point of the story was he's lived in Europe forever. And around twice a year, he'd come back to the States. He lived in upstate New York, we met in college. And, you know, we had this tradition where he'd land from Europe in JFK. He'd say, okay, I'm renting the car and go, I'm going through uh immigration and customs or renting the car. We would meet, for those of you who know geography, in Fort Lee, New Jersey, because I could get there from where I lived at the time, and then he would then go upstate. And we'd just have, you know, these two to three hour lunches twice a year. And I probably couldn't do that if I was working for someone else. So I I do some extra work the night before, I do work that afternoon. But that freedom to spend time with him. Hi, Jack, if you're watching or listening, you know, talking about life, talking about entrepreneurship, talking about living in Europe versus living in America, all of that. I don't think I could have done that if I was working for someone else. So it was worth it.

Kevin: 9:31

Yeah. And I really like to go back on something you said earlier. I really like the Venn diagram thing that you're talking about. It reminds me of a modified. Are you familiar with the term Igigai at all? It's a Japanese term. Yes. Yeah, I mean modified. Is it finding your joy? Some uh there's like four circles. I can't remember all of them, but they're very, very similar uh to your.

Ken Jacobs: 9:54

I will have to look for that. Because I do the Venn diagram with clients in figuring out career, career choice. And also I also do business development helping clients in the agency world, even if they're soloists, PR soloists, with their biz dev plan. And so we do a modification of that to figure out who their prospects are and where they should be prospecting. And it's valuable because, you know, why pitch business from clients who can't pay you?

Kevin: 10:25

Yeah. And let's actually talk about that because you mentioned earlier, it's like, hey, when you're in the business yourself, you have to do business development and fulfillment. And so let's kind of talk about business development for a second, specifically the marketing. So how do people find you? What kind of marketing are you doing right now? I'm sure curious about that.

Ken Jacobs: 10:43

I'm very easy to find. You know, for those of you who are entrepreneurs and coaches and future, you know, it's LinkedIn. It's LinkedIn, it's LinkedIn, it's LinkedIn. That's where business people I feel come to find one another. So I'm on there. Um, if you want to connect there, there are a lot of Ken Jacobs, but I'm the one with PCC after my name, those initials. So I'm on LinkedIn. I do share on my Facebook business page, on YouTube, we have a Jacobs Consulting and Executive Coaching YouTube channel. I'm on Instagram, but but to me, LinkedIn is where the real networking happens, the real sharing, you know, the real interaction. Can I share the name of someone who I think knows so much about LinkedIn? Yeah, feel free to. If you want to up your LinkedIn game, Scott Aaron, and he's in business with his wife, but I'm blanking on her name. I don't want to say the wrong name. So I'm just gonna say Scott Aaron. He does so much free stuff on LinkedIn, he shares so much knowledge about upping your game, about how to use DMs, about how to comment, about he just I love the way and he's he had a few very successful businesses, but I love the way he gives away his knowledge. And that's something I've come to believe in. You know, find out where your prospects are, their conferences, become a speaker. Don't just go and network, become a speaker, share your wisdom, share, share, share. Plus sense of what it's like to work with you. And that's a great biz dev magnet. Great biz dev. I don't know if I answered the question. I have the question.

Kevin: 12:28

It sounds like you're all over the place on social media, LinkedIn. Well, that scares me.

Ken Jacobs: 12:32

I hope I'm all over the place. I I hope mostly on LinkedIn. And then so we we, you know, you've mentioned we have a video podcast. We interview leaders mostly from communications, but no, not about their PR skills, but about their leadership skills. So we do have that on the website, K-E-N at J A C O B S C O D M.com, but also uh you YouTube, which I think it's important to be, even though we also, you know, to share concurrently is easy. So I hope I'm not all over the place. I hope people really find and interact with me on LinkedIn.

Kevin: 13:10

As you reflect on your business development journey for your coaching business, what kind of challenges have you kind of encountered or noticed when it comes to finding clients?

Ken Jacobs: 13:19

What I did write was find my niche. I'm a big believer in having a niche in any business that you're in as a coach, as a PR person, as a marketer. And if you're uncomfortable with the word niche, if you think it's limiting, what if you called it your area of expertise? Ooh, suddenly you embrace that because people do want to hire experts, no matter the field, no matter the offering. So I'm a big believer in niche. So I found my niche, which is serving, as I've mentioned, those not exclusively, but primarily in PRN comms. And that made sense for me because it's where I had an existing LinkedIn network, which I expanded over the years. But I think it's so important to know three simple things as an entrepreneur. How much money do you want to make next year? What do you want to make it doing? What do you want to offer? What do you want to help people? And who do you want to offer it to? And as you know, you mentioned biz dev and marketing. I separate the two, and I think it starts with your biz dev because everybody wants to market. They want to tweet if they're on Twitter still, they want to post, they want to. But then I say as a biz dev coach, well, to whom are you doing all this marketing? Maybe let's identify our ideal client prospects. Let's get inside their heads, let's understand their problems, let's really understand how we can help them. And then, you know, you pro you identify the organizations and as I call them, the check writers. Don't pitch people who can't hire you, pitch people who can hire you. And then you kick in your marketing. But if you haven't done your client identification, who you're marketing to, your marketing will be all over the place. Uh and and if I could create a follow-up answer, with your marketing, be of value, be of service, solve a problem that you know your prospect has through your marketing, through your thought leadership. Really, I see a lot of people posting, we won this award, and I get it. We're proud and we win awards, no doubt. Absolutely. But most of your posts, in my humble view, should bring value to your prospects. Give them a sense of you, give them a taste of you. You may not be everybody's cup of tea, that's okay. But bring value to your prospects. And that's how they start the journey of becoming clients.

Kevin: 15:41

Yeah, and I'm curious in your world, what are kind of the problems that you've noticed your audience like?

Ken Jacobs: 15:46

Right now in the PR world, things are tight. For many agencies and even soloists, PR soloists, com soloists, for many, 2020 ended up being a banner year, as you can imagine, especially if they were in healthcare communications or internal comms or employee comms. 21 was a great year, 22 was a great year, 23, not so much, 24, not so much, 25, not so much. And so many of my clients are struggling to grow their client budgets and win new clients and attract new clients and per pursue, attract. But you know, for me, what am I gonna do? I'm not gonna become a generalist. I'm not gonna be one of those coaches who says I can serve everyone. And I I'm not dissing those coaches because coaches can help just about anyone who's ready to be empowered to make change. But my feeling is I'm well known. Some people call me the agency whisperer, which I love. I wish I knew it's one. Who told me that? I really should honor them with that. So I know my lane. And look, I've lived through enough economic downturns in my professional career, at least four, maybe five of them. This too shall pass. It'll get better. I can tell you it'll get better. But it I I I believe before I am ready to close it all up, which may be never, I do believe it will get better again. And so I remind them of that. And then I remind them that they can also help their clients, even if the clients' budgets are lower. I remind them, share knowledge, share information. Clients will their clients will remember that. And share your knowledge freely. We need knowledge now, we need good energy now. So share it freely. Be generous. Sadly, in this, not the coaching world, but in the PR comms world, there are a lot of great people looking for work, people at the senior level who never thought they'd have to do a job search again, and very talented graduates who graduated in May of 25, who in any other era would have had a job offer by their senior second semester or by the spring break. Really talented, really experienced, got great experience during college, but you know, it's a tough market. So I spend at least once a day I try to help someone in their job search. I just think, wow, that's very generous of you.

Kevin: 18:20

But I get the sense of like this go-giving mentality of sharing like your knowledge, your experience, helping people, putting others first, and using that as kind of maybe it's kind of marketing, but I just think it's also like a very good thing to do for society as well, and just for the industry, and it leaves a memorable impression.

Ken Jacobs: 18:41

And I do try to help, you know, if there are any coaches starting their business and they want to chat about getting started or biz dev and marketing, I I would always talk to them. I think that's more but here's the key. I see a lot of people talk about do good things and karma and it'll come back. I think the key is doing good things without any expectation of reward. Just because it is the right thing to do and it's putting good energy out in the universe, and you're not you're not doing it because you expect something back. I frankly, I've been doing what we just discussed for twenty or thirty years. Someone I adore, Chris Tanaka, was in the agency business for decades, either was chair, CEO, creative director, or head of consumer at three different agencies. Natchy is a business helping people and organizations find their passion. It's called Joyful Planet. And when I was out of work, someone connected us, and we both talk about it to this day. Like 30 years ago, we just became and uh it stood the test of time. And she, in those days, there were Rolodexes. Look it up if you don't know what they and she oh not only opened her Rolodex to me, she would write these passionate letters to people saying why they had to meet me, why they had to hire me. And so a lot of this thing we just talked about, I do to I consider it paying it forward to all of Patrice's kindness to me over decades. I know she gets great joy knowing I'm helping people just paying it forward because of the kindness she paid to me when we barely knew one another. So we did something in the world, I'm really convinced of it.

Kevin: 20:25

So you're generating all this goodwill without any expectations, and people are finding you. I'm sure people are inquiring about your services and like, hey, Ken, how do we work with you? And so one of the things I'm very, very curious about is like, what do your different coaching engagements look like? I know some people do like one-on-one coaching, some people do group coaching. How do you structure your engagements for your coaching?

Ken Jacobs: 20:50

At this point, and we may add to it. At this point, it's one-on-one coaching in a core engagement in a nutshell. Is well, I'm a big believer in assessments and baselines and finding out where you are before you start coaching. I use ELI Energy Leadership Index. It's from IPEC, the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching, where I have some of my certifications. And um, what I I mean, I think you can get value from any assessment if you answer it honestly. Disc, modified or abbreviated disk, whatever it's called, Myers, Briggs, Hogan, all of them, I believe, tell you who you are and maybe what role you should have in your organization, and what role others should have. The ELI shows you how you're showing up as a leader, the various levels of energy you're bringing in everyday life and when stressed. And the coaching helps you get from stress to your higher, your more anabolic energy levels. What I love about the ELI is that it says, here's who you are today. It's not who you are forever. Your brain loves neuroplasticity. Your brain loves to create neural pathways. Our brains love to learn how to do things differently. And so you can show up after coaching with a new approach of being a more powerful leader. So it's one month of the ELI and some other assessments and goal setting, looking at your 360s if you've gotten them at work. We also offer a 360. And then it's six months of coaching twice a month for one hour. Now, some people come to me and say, Will you work without the ELI? I I've learned not to, because to me, it's such a powerful tool for self-awareness that why when you know something works and you want to serve your clients, I can't do it without it. I just say thank you. I'm not the coach for you. But most want to do it. Most people I speak with up front, they're fascinated by the power of the ELI. Why six months? Because when I'm if I coach anyone, my that we are getting rid of old habits. We're observing some of our thoughts, feelings, and actions that don't serve us or our organization, or our teams, or our bosses, or our peers. And we're becoming aware of it and we're replacing it with new ways of perceiving the world, new ways of thinking and feeling and acting. That doesn't happen after a month or two. It really doesn't. It really takes that long, I have found, to become the kind of leader you want to be. So you go with the one month of assessments and then six months of coaching, we have found that's the best result.

Kevin: 23:40

Sounds like the work is quite intimate too. It's a lot of work. And so, how do you manage your client capacity and all that? Especially as a solo practitioner.

Ken Jacobs: 23:49

Yeah, so i I've never thought of the word intimate with it, but coaching really is intimate. And even though I'm not a a therapist, I've never had therapy, um, but my clients tell me it's very therapeutic, which borders on intimate. And I think the thing, and if you think about if you want to work a 40-hour work week or 45 or 35 or whatever, and each session is an hour, and I I book at minimum a 15-minute buffer between sessions. I really try to do 30 minutes to think about the last session and take some notes and some ideas for next time and check email and make a cup of coffee and think about my next session. But if you think about that in two weeks' time, you could be coaching 20 easily. That's I mean, you really can, after you've been doing it a while, you can live a life of abundance if you're charging what you deserve to charge because of the value you bring. And if you're doing biz dev and marketing well, capacity, and even with buffers and even with allocating 20% of your time to biz dev and marketing. And I always say, I'm glad this came up, when you're setting up your business and how to bill and what you want to make using 80% of your work week. No more than that, because you need that 20%, in my view, to do biz dev and marketing. And look, some clients renew year after year. I've had some clients I've worked with, gosh, four years, you know. But others get to a point where when the coaching works, they're ready to leave the nest and self-coach. And, you know, we we'll spend time in the final session. How are you gonna lead yourself? How are you replacing our two-week coaching session? So that's so because that's gonna happen, you must always be filling the pipeline. So if you really break your time down, you have time for BizDevin marketing, you have time for professional development, you must make time for self-care, breathing, exercise, meditation, or mindfulness. That's just essential. You've you've gotta be your best self. You gotta show up at your best self, I think, to be an effective coach. I see.

Kevin: 26:03

Well, one of the interesting things, you were talking about billing earlier and stuff too, and it brought up a thought in my mind because a lot of people who are watching this uh podcast, they struggle with pricing strategies or how to price. And so obviously you don't have to give any hard numbers, but I'm kind of curious how do you structure your pricing or what kind of pricing strategies have you gravitated to? I know a lot of coaches, they start off with hourly, they hate it, and they move on to project-based, value-based, retainer strategies. But what has worked best for you over your years?

Ken Jacobs: 26:36

Well, I guess mine's a little bit of both because it's the project it's the cost of for me, the engagement I just laid out, but then I multiply that times the hourly rate that I want to make after all these years. So it is, but I I avoid the discussion of hours really. Here's the package. In fact, so a couple of things I do. We definitely have a letter of engagement and it spells out the terms non-confidential or confidential terms and non-disbargement and all that good stuff. But I for some clients, if they ask me to, I might break the entire engagement into a series of two or three payments if that allows them to say yes, let's do this. But they also know, don't sign the paper unless you're ready to commit to the full amount. So it my letter of engagement states that you understand this two or three payment system has been made for your convenience, but you owe the entire amount. I think it's very, you know, we've got to talk about money. We've got to just be comfortable talking about money rates. So I am obviously comfortable talking about it. One thing that I sometimes, you know, when I set my rates for the year, I look at the rates that my clients charge their clients. And most of my clients are, you know, middle manager to see senior, much more senior level. So, you know, I know the rates they charge, and I, you know, I'm comfortable saying I will br if you do the work, I will bring you the value, your bill and your clients. So I feel very comfortable if they go deep on the rate, but most don't. Now, some coaching experts say you should have one rate, that's it, and maybe they're right. I approach it differently, and I'm upfront about this. I have one rate for corporations, I have a slightly lower rate for agencies, even though I know agencies are corporations that I have a slightly lower rate for a returning client, or if they find me through PRSA, the Public Relations Society of America, sorry, Public Relations Society of America, of which I am a proud member, and I speak at a lot of PRSA conferences, so I do offer that rate. But then if someone is paying me out of their own pocket, they don't want to ask their organization to fund it for whatever reason. I do have a lower rate. Some say you shouldn't do that. The reason I do that is that I find most individuals don't have the kind of money that a corporation or an agency has. And so if I want to work with them, then I give them a rate that reflects that. So that might be wrong. You might have coaches calling in saying, no, Ken, you should have one rate. And they might be right, but it has served me well. It has served me well. I know my returning agency clients appreciate that they're getting a little thank you. And I know that individuals who, for whatever reason, don't want their organization to ask them to sponsor, it allows me to work with them. Some of them are in toxic work environments and come to me to figure out how I can thrive or even survive in this toxic environment. I had one client who was in a toxic environment. First, we helped her survive, then we helped her thrive, then we helped her get a new job, which I felt, you know, her company wasn't paying me, and then she Use the coaching to really help her come in strong, uh, senior but newer leader there. So coaching can work. Just my goodness, it's so many phases of life and with so many situations we may face in a six-month period.

Kevin: 30:15

I like what you did there too, because you're pricing the client in their specific situation versus like giving a blanket statement type of thing. And so if you really want to work with someone, sounds like you kind of cater to that client as well.

Ken Jacobs: 30:29

So I believe that in the approach, in the letter, in the disc make it easy for them to say yes. Make it easy, don't take less than you should get to live a life of abundance for you, but make it easy for your clients to say yes, make it easy. And I have found that a few bills over six months, sometimes rather than, but then I've had others that we sent the bill and they said, Okay, fine. We're signed up anyway, we'll pay you. Okay. That certainly works for me to not have to invoice you again. And I I've had others say, can you invoice us every month? And that's a lot of admin work. I had one say, can you invoice us after every coaching session? I said, I I'd have to raise my the fee of the engagement, and then I'm billing you for admin, not for coaching. That's I don't think that works for either one of us. Now, if I may, I will tell you something I do. When I bill, there's always a little bit more in the account in the till. Right. So so in a way, I guess I'm paid for the engagement for the next phase. If we pay a little bit to up front, I'm always why because I never want to have to say to a client, look, we've got a session tomorrow, but I haven't been paid by your organization and it's really awkward and da-da-da-da-da. So the way to avoid that is I find, and this has worked for me, others do it differently, you know, have a little bit more in the account, if you will, than where you are in your coaching engagement, and you never have to have that awkward discussion.

Kevin: 32:02

Yeah, thank you for that. You know, money can be a taboo subject sometimes, and it always helps to have like perspectives on that. But I do want to switch gears for a second because okay, so it sounds like, you know, we have the business development down, we know what a coaching engagement looks like, we know how much to charge a coaching engagement. I hope so. But the interesting part is that, like I said, you've been in this industry for quite a while, 18 years in coaching. And so what does I guess where do you want this coaching business to take you in the next few years? Do you have any secret dreams, big ambitions, design to scale?

Ken Jacobs: 32:37

What's on your mind? To me, the biggest one is driven by practically every day we're learning more and more about this, about the brain, about neuroscience, about neuroplasticity, about the fact that we're and our clients are hardwired, many, for fear to walk away from confrontation or honest discussion, uh to deal with things. Yes, we are. I don't know if it's biological or cultural or a little of both, we are hardwired for fear, but again, the brain loves to create new neural pathways and the impact that changing how you think and changing how you think about leadership and changing how you think when you are leading someone, but the power that has, the potential that has, so that has an impact on both leadership and on coaching. And so that's why I think it's just endless, it's just endless this power, and that's what excites me. That's what really excites me. And if I look at future and I don't know when I talked about setting up your your week with coaching and fitness and meditation and fiz dev professional development, if you're a coach, you must be a lifelong learner, you must always be learning about how people think and how they lead and how to coach them. So to me, there's a lot of excitement. I've done I've taken some courses from the Neuroleadership Institute, and I I follow what they publish, and um I'm just I'm truly excited about that. When I tell my clients, you don't have to be, you know, uh a neurosurgeon to use neuros or a neuroscientist to use neuroscience in your life, in your work, how you lead people, how you give them feedback. The brain just loves it. And aren't we fortunate that our brains love that?

Kevin: 34:40

Yeah, that's so interesting. I'm really into neuroscience myself. I'm a big like dispenser guy and stuff like that too, and all that. That's how I got into the world. But it's really interesting how like we're learning so much about the brain. I think for so long we had all these esoteric concepts, right? But now it's being like proven by neuroscience, or there's links to neuroscience, which there's concrete evidence to it, and it's so great to see you use it for your practice as well.

Ken Jacobs: 35:07

I attended a webinar, uh a virtual webinar. It was by one of the scientists who did the many one of the many famous studies, you've done many studies, and I'm sorry, I can't remember his name, where they put someone in an MRI and they tell them something, and there's a little, you know, you know, it's like, so you're in the MRI. Kevin, here's what you should do with your business. So we get some activity, but then the scientist says, Kevin, what are your goals for your organization? Suddenly we see activity in the front. I want to say the prefrontal cortex, but don't quote me on that. But I know it's the front.

Kevin: 35:45

It's the prefrontal.

Ken Jacobs: 35:46

Yes. It is.

Kevin: 35:46

Cool, cool, cool.

Ken Jacobs: 35:47

Thank you. And that's where things like action, passion, creativity, executive function, and memory live. There's two other things: action, passion, empathy, collaboration, executive function, and memory live. And if you think about it, if I want to coach you into greatness or lead you into greatness, I got to light up the part of the brain that where those things live. And and as I ask questions, well, Kevin, what do you think you should do? What are your three biggest goals? What are some actions you'll take to achieve them? And then Kevin, how will you feel after you've taken those steps? And he said it's like fireworks. The MRI were like fireworks. He showed us, you know, on the screen. It is remarkable. And that's, you know, as a leader and as a coach, you can create fireworks in your followers' brains, in your peers' brains, in your boss's brains. You know, and it's it's not nefarious, it's totally positive. I think it's all good. Just the power by don't tell, ask. Don't every leader, just that minute, we we so want to tell, just ask. Open-ended, empowering questions. Not don't you think you should do this because that's a tell question or something, but you know, well, what do you want to do? And and such a powerful question. How will it feel when you've done it? Because you know something about this. When I ask a client or you, Kevin, how will it feel when you do that? Your body will literally start to feel it. That is so powerful.

Kevin: 37:23

As we're coming near the end of the podcast, something I'm very curious about is that in this season of your business right now, what are some challenges that you're noticing in this season of life in business? It could be I'm more curious about the things that people probably wouldn't see from the surface, I guess. Maybe invisible struggles.

Ken Jacobs: 37:42

I just think that there are great feelings of uncertainty right now. I think part of it, depending on where you are, is the economy. Part of it is, I don't want to get political, but part of it is the political situation in the US. There's just great uncertainty. And so I'm working with a lot of clients to lead through the uncertainty, to embrace their courage, to have honest conversations. I don't call them challenging conversations or difficult, because then you're telling your brain, oh, it's a difficult conversation. Oh no, what should I do? It's difficult. Whereas instead, if you say this is an honest conversation, which will help this person do a better job at their job. Well, okay, the brain wants to do that, sure. So lean into their courage, lots of self-care, whether it's meditation or mindfulness. And I think part of it is also acceptance is so powerful. Accept these are uncertain times. Go with the really work, work that whether it's your gut or your brain, that muscle that allows you to go with the flow. Um don't, you know, expect the unexpected. So when it comes to you, rather than oh my gosh, right? It's well, gee, that's not what I expected, huh? Is there some opportunity here? First, and when you get hit by something, not a car maybe, but you get hit by something, well, not acknowledge it's not what you were accepted. It's not what you expected, excuse me. But what's the opportunity here? Because if you can bring that curiosity that didn't expect that, that optimism, that is so reassuring to your followers. So reassuring to your followers. Expect the unexpected and believe for all my clients. I say you have been called to leadership in the year 2025 for some reason. It is not an easy year for leaders, but you've been called to it. Leadership is a calling. So you decide how will you respond in a way that will benefit your followers, your peers, your organization, your clients if you have clients, your boss if you have a boss.

Kevin: 39:47

Okay. Last thing I want to ask again. We're going to play a game if you're open to it. It's through the lens of business investments, because a lot of coaches they invest into things like coaching, training, marketing, team members. There's a lot of different things, right? And so I'm going to just prompt four phrases and I just want you to shotgun with the first thing that comes to mind. All right. And then I'll ask you a summary question at the end so you can tell the story if you like. All right. First business investment you remember making.

Ken Jacobs: 40:15

Well, it wasn't getting a coach. I mean, I've had coaches on and off for I'm going to say decades now. So one, well, uh two, can I give you a two-part answer? One was getting a coach, but the other was, and and I'll this I was sitting with a great PR leader who be who has become a great coach, Elise Mitchell. And I, but this is when she was the head of Densu Global PR. It was before I was certified. I've been doing because you can coach without certification. I don't like that, but I did it for many years. She said, can find a coaching school, get trained, get certified, not because of the initials, but because it will give you so many more tools to be a great coach, and that will blow up your business. And it did. So for me, getting certified and the training. So to any coach out there, if you're coaching and you're not yet certified, you're making the world a better place. That's wonderful. Take the step, do your research, research. I recommend finding a training school certified by the International Coach Federation, ICF. Do the work. It is worth it.

Kevin: 41:24

Okay. Last business investment you made.

Ken Jacobs: 41:27

Goodness. Well, it's the last, but it's been ongoing. But I had a great strategist on branding, marketing, LinkedIn, content, digital. Have I forgotten anything? And we worked together for a number of years. And then she went on to do other work. And actually, her daughter, and it's the great Deirdre Breckenridge who really helped me figure out my brand. And then her daughter, the great Megan Breckenridge, who had sort of been my virtual marketing social virtual assistant, stepped in and she's a brilliant strategist. She's a brilliant tactician. Do not go it alone. Find someone you can partner with because all those things I mentioned, marketing, social. I'm going out of order. First, it's figuring out your brand, but social marketing, LinkedIn, YouTube, content, thought leadership. Why go it alone? Why go it alone? So that those to me are the two most important investments.

Kevin: 42:29

Okay. This one might overlap, but best business investment you made.

Ken Jacobs: 42:33

So do I have to just between the two? First thing that comes to mind, I was uh I I'm gonna have to say going to IPEC, the Institute for Professional Excellence and Coaching, getting certified, being open to their training. And I've remained I feel like a member of the IPEC family. Changed my life, changed my world, changed my business.

Kevin: 42:57

Okay. This one's a little bit grim, but worst investment that you kind of wish you got your money back from. You don't have to name any names, by the way.

Ken Jacobs: 43:05

No, I won't, but I'm trying to I think I'm a little picky and I'm a little choosy and I'm slow to purchase. I I I really I it sounds a little Pollyanish. I can't think of any that I've regretted. I really can't maybe I should be investing more, and then that would force me to purchase some things that really aren't as valuable. But I I think I don't know, I think because I've been coaching so long and I've been trained, et cetera, et cetera, and because I was an entrepreneur or or had an entrepreneurial streak, which developed over the years. I don't know if this means I'm not investing enough or I'm appropriately choosy.

Kevin: 43:48

As last question for you. As you're reflecting on these stories of investments, I'm kind of curious, how has your decision-making process and what to invest in changed over the years?

Ken Jacobs: 43:58

I'm gonna correct something I said before. My most recent investment was joining coaching.com. The most recent is coaching.com because while business is a little slower than I'd like, I'm just doing a lot of professional development, attending their webinars and learning.

Kevin: 44:17

So that's the most recent. How has your decision-making process and what to invest in changed over the years?

Ken Jacobs: 44:24

I don't know that it's changed, and maybe this has allowed me to not make too many bad investments in professional development. I think about things, so it hasn't changed. I think my process is always where will I be at the end of it? What skills or talents or knowledge will I likely have that I don't have now? Can I imagine getting ROIs? If I pay for a course that's 5,000, can I imagine making 15 or 20 or 25 or 30 from it? The chemistry, do I really like right? Because anybody you invest with, you're gonna do a few free webinars or sessions with them, whether it's three sessions or 10, will I want to show up? Do I look forward? Do I enjoy spending that hour with them? Do I like that style? Does their teaching style align with my learning style? So I think if you figure those things out, and also are they honest? You know, all these things that all coaches get a million times a day. I can help you create a six-figure company in two weeks, like, you know, just have your BS meter on. If it feels like BS, it's BS. And there are so many great coach trainers, coach biz dev people out there. So, you know, be picky, be really picky about that investment, and you will get return on the investment.

Kevin: 45:54

Love it. This is the hardest question I'm gonna ask you all night.

Ken Jacobs: 45:56

You keep saying this is the last question, and this is the hardest question.

Kevin: 46:01

How can people find you and connect with you?

Ken Jacobs: 46:03

That's so easy. I'm easy to find. Find me on LinkedIn. I'm Ken Jacobs, followed by the initials PCC. You can find me on my website, K-E-N at J A C O B S C O D-M dot com. We also have a YouTube channel, Jacobs Consulting and Executive Coaching. And if it's your thing, you can find I have a Facebook business page named after the company, and I'm on Instagram. For some reason, on Instagram I'm Ken S, I mean, it's my middle name, Jacobs. I don't know why Instagram gave me that. But one thing I want to share, and I hope it's okay, if you're at all interested in learning about how coaching can change your business, change your life. You just want to explore it. You know, I have a calendarly link on the website and in LinkedIn. Reach out to me. Let's spend 45 minutes together. Tap into me. I will help you in any way that I can. No pressure, no hard sell. We can either literally have a coaching session or we can talk about what coaching can and can't do for you. And I'm always happy to offer that. Complimentary. I love that. I love it's obvious.

Kevin: 47:19

There's just so much I took away from this conversation. I think some of the things that I highlighted was like, you know, your life is not old over once you hit 50. Once you start facing ages, 50s were my best decade ever. Best 50. You're heading towards anyone who's 49, get ready for your best decade ever. I loved what you talked about with the neuroscience and really reshifting, kind of like niching down to an area of expertise. It really changes the vibe of exploration. I loved how you're so focused on serving others throughout your business development to your engagements and all that. You're so generous with how your pricing as well. And uh, I just want to say the most important thing that really stuck out to me was like your optimism. You know, you consistently said throughout the podcast that we're living through very uncertain times, but through your years of experience and living through multiple cycles that things will get better. And I think that's very well needed right now. So, Ken, I just want to thank you for coming on the podcast and sharing your story.

Ken Jacobs: 48:24

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Davis Nguyen : 48:26

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This podcast was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, or even $100,000 weeks, all without burning out and making sure that you're making the impact and having the life that you want. To learn more about our community and how we can help you, visit join purplecircle.com, and we'll be able to do that.