Clients Don’t Pay for Time — They Pay for Outcomes with Gary Mitchell

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, host Kevin sits down with Gary Mitchell, founder of On-Track Coaching and a veteran coach with over 20 years of experience helping law firm owners grow revenue and reclaim their freedom. Gary breaks down why he walked away from hourly pricing early in his career, how outcome-based and value-based pricing transformed his business, and why clients don’t care how long it takes — only that it works.

From his unexpected journey from politics into coaching, to building a lean, freedom-focused practice, Gary shares hard-earned lessons on pricing, mindset, delegation, guarantees, and why living life in six-minute increments is no way to build impact. If you’re a coach selling time instead of transformation, this episode will challenge how you think about value forever.




Connect with

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyemitchell/
Website: https://ontraccoach.com/blog/

Transcript

Gary Mitchell 0:00

Here's the thing, they will agree with me. We don't care how much time it takes. We're just focused on the outcome. That's what matters. The outcome. That's why I taught my fee is based on the outcome I will deliver. And I, by the way, I guarantee of I do have a guarantee. So because I know I know what I do works. But the smarter ones will be, I know, damn. I mean, it's kind of like this, it's a noose around their neck, the buildable hour. I mean, can you imagine living your life in six-minute increments?

Davis Nguyen 0:28

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Kevin 0:59

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Kevin, and today we're joined by Gary Mitchell. He is the founder of On-Track Coaching, been a coach for 20 plus years. Welcome to the show, Gary.

Gary Mitchell 1:11

Thanks, Kevin. It's my pleasure to be with you today.

Kevin 1:14

Yeah. You know, it's so funny because pre-podcast, we're talking about your adventures in China when you're 19 years old and just loving exploring different cultures and your curiosity, right? And you could have been so many different things. You could have been a Chinese tour guide, you could have been, I don't know, a professional food taster, right? But of all the things you chose, you decide to land on coaching and not only land on coaching, but turn into a business.

Gary Mitchell 1:39

Absolutely fell into it, Kevin. I had always been fascinated. As we were talking in the pre-podcast, I was very fortunate to be brought up in a family and in a place, a suburb of Toronto, one of the most multicultural cities in the world. So I was always, I always was curious, right? I loved history, I loved sociology, I loved the study of people all my life. So along with that, politics. So I was very involved in politics. And in 2004, I ran for parliament in Vancouver. And I always say, thankfully, I lost. I'm serious. I'm very, very serious about that. I knew I wasn't going to win actually because the writing and the party and all that, but I had to stand up for what I believed in. It was one of those aha moments. But here's the thing after that is when everything changed because I got approached to run a nomination for a lawyer in the same riding after the following election. I ran his nomination, he won, and then he was adamant about me being his campaign manager. So that was my first foray in coaching. And it was truly one of those life aha moments. I'd always been the guy, always the one out front, right? And now I'm the guy behind the guy. And wow, watching the transformation of another human being. And I had some part of that. Obviously, I'm not going to take all credit, right? Like he was he was amazing. He was a sponge. He soaked everything in. But his friend of his friend, a former lawyer at the time, came up to me one day after the campaign meeting and he said, Gary, you've got an amazing talent to distill like people skills, soft skills to highly intelligent people, right? And this candidate was dual master's geology and law. So we're talking like double intellectual, right? And so there's a different skill set, right? The lawyer skill set, intellectual, analytical, critical. And then just by way of experience, my skill set, which was more the people's skills, right? So that's how I landed. I mean, I I was after I picked my jaw off the ground when I was given this idea, I began about nine months of research. And back then, Kevin, I was the only coach in the legal industry in Canada, and one of very few in North America. Like all the research I had to do was online, looking at the U.S., I met with many lawyers in Vancouver, many marketing directors. Serendipitously, the first chapter of the Legal Marketing Association outside of the United States was forming in Vancouver. I went, I went, like seriously, this is in my first couple of months. I went, it was August of 2006. I went to the meeting, I networked, I met veteran legal marketers from the U.S. who are still friends to this day. Oh, I saw them in LA at the annual conference in 09, uh, but we're still in touch. And I haven't looked back. Wow. Now here's the real here's the real kicker, Kevin. Talk about serendipity and how life, if you let it, life can take you down a path that you would never have dreamed. My fourth book is due out in June. The co-publisher is the brother, also a practicing lawyer, of the guy who gave me the idea to coach lawyers in the beginning. Wow. It kind of came full circle. This is my fourth book, and it's definitely an embodiment of 20 years of work plus my experience before that. And so it was very I was taking my time, I researched all over North America, and I stumbled upon this, and I couldn't believe it when I found out the co-publisher is the brother of the lawyer that gave me the idea to do this in the first place.

Kevin 5:14

You know, you mentioned you're always in kind of like the spotlight before, right? And now you're the behind-the-scenes person. Must have been kind of well, how was the transition? Was it a humbling experience? Like how would you describe it?

Gary Mitchell 5:25

I actually felt like I was so proud. I felt like a parent. I've never been a parent, but I can imagine what it must be like when one of your children goes on to do well, and you're like the proud parent going, Wow, look at how this person has grown. That's amazing. Certainly humbling for sure, but it was just as far as like if you're asking, did my ego have any get checked or anything? Not at all. I just thoroughly went, Wow, this is amazing, right? This is absolutely amazing. Watching someone literally transform. Like, and we did the whole thing. I mean, there's a couple stories where I took him to a tailor to get a new suit, and his wife, when he was in the change room, his wife leaned over to me and she said, Thank you. I had his assistant go get him a haircut. One day during the campaign, he gets in the cab and he's still got his ancient vinyl brown leather. Well, actually, it wasn't even leather, it would have been a vinyl briefcase from law school. And I said, Now this was the last part of the transformation. He had the haircut, he had a new suit, he's working on his networking and his speech and all the. So I told him, I said, if you have that, if you have that briefcase with you tomorrow, I quit. So he went out and bought a new, a new uh briefcase. And that was the that was kind of like uh the outside, the end of the outside part of the transformation. But it truly was like all awe-inspiring, eye-opening. I've like, sure there's been ups and downs, but I have never, I mean, I'm definitely on purpose. I'm doing what I should be doing. I'm doing what I was put here to do, and I love it. I absolutely love it.

Kevin 7:00

The interesting part about this is you know, sometimes I ask people how do they find their ICP, the ideal client profile, but it kind of found you in this case, right? You know what?

Gary Mitchell 7:10

You wouldn't believe this. My first client, okay? Yeah. My first client. So he's a partner at a uh very well-established 100-year-old litigation firm, a big one in Vancouver. And he says to me one day, why he chose me. He looked at a couple of other people from the legal marketing background, and he found them paraphrasing a little fluffy. And he, you know, I'm brand spanking new. I don't have a scratch on me, Kevin, right? No, I've done nine months of research, but I haven't actually done any coaching work with the lawyers in the realm of law. I had coached the candidate. So he tells me, he goes, Gary, I already know how to be a good lawyer. I want what you have. I want that entrepreneurial drive and mindset. I mean, right out of the gate, he framed my ideal client profile right out of the gate.

Kevin 7:59

That's interesting. And I'm guessing you ran with it.

Gary Mitchell 8:02

Well, yeah. Absolutely. Now it's to the point where last year I even niched even further. I work exclusively with law firm owners. So smaller law firms, more entrepreneurial. So it's entrepreneur to entrepreneur, and we get stuff done. I liken it back to that nomination phase where literally I got a call on a Monday night. The nomination was going to be a week the following Saturday. I called the candidate on the Tuesday, I met with him on the boardroom on the Wednesday, and the next 10 days, I oversaw the building of a website, a mailer, hosted an event, wrote his speech, coached him on his speech, and got him ready for the nomination meeting. 10 days. I dropped everything else and did this. Just him and me. And it was the most amazing experience of my life. And now I'm kind of reliving it a little bit now that I'm working one-on-one with law firm owners, because we don't have the bureaucracy. I work with the decision maker. So we can we can make decisions, we can move quickly, and we can see we can see results very, very quickly. It's really awesome.

Kevin 9:01

Yeah. Now, I know you've been in the industry for about 20 years, right? And so a lot has changed in that amount of time. And part of running a business, I always think about is the marketing. And so how has your marketing kind of evolved over the years? Uh yeah, I'm kind of curious.

Gary Mitchell 9:18

It's interesting that you bring that up because it hasn't. The approach that I took from the very beginning is still the same approach. The tools are different. Let me explain. So from the very beginning, felt comfortable. I didn't want to sell. Okay. I don't want to be like pushy and look at me and I can do this for you, and blah, blah, blah. No, no, no. Um, so I I landed, I stumbled upon you. One of my first articles, by the way, was September 2006 on the law of the Lawyers Weekly of a publication in Canada. And that was in my first couple of months. And so I just I spoke when I could get, I got invited to the Canadian Bar Association annual conference in Dublin, Ireland. I spoke at many legal marketing association events, Ontario Bar Association, a British Columbia Bar Association. I spoke at the students at the UBC Law School. So I would write and I would speak. And I called it back then, long before this term content marketing came up, about a few years ago. I called it educational marketing, right? I'm giving value, I'm showing my expertise, but I'm giving educating my target audience. So that approach has never changed. I'm still doing that, but now I'm doing it like this guesting on podcasts. I have an app coming out in a month. The book is coming out. I continue to write for the new entity, which is Law 360, which is the digital version of the Lawyers Weekly. So I've been writing for them for over 20 years now. And it's still the same approach. Social media will cover like some of the, like we'll post articles written, uh, we'll post parts of uh podcasts, but it's still all educational. Yeah, it's interesting how uh why you bring that up because I just found it worked, right? Like a lawyer will often say, How did you find me? And they said online, but when I go deeper, it'll be, oh, I heard you speak at so and so, or I wrote I read your article, or I read your book, or I, you know, and that's how people find me. So it hasn't changed. The tools, the tools have changed slightly, right?

Kevin 11:19

The interesting one that you brought up was an app, because that's something I don't hear that people launch an app all the time, right? It's not some people do, but how do you think?

Gary Mitchell 11:28

I'm really I'm totally you know what's very ironic is 20 years ago, um in an in another lifetime, it seems, one of my neighbors was uh a Russian tech guy. And I said I brought the idea up to him. This is before educational apps, okay? So this is before Dual Lego, all of that, right? But I just had this idea. I thought there must be a way with technology to put my knowledge into some kind of an app. And he completely dismissed me. He goes, What are you talking about? That wouldn't work, right? Because the the apps back then were very basic, like 20 years ago, 2006. And so I've never given up. And now what's cut what's coming out in roughly a month is an A to Z. It's a DIY. And lawyers are known to be DIY, they're very independent-minded, very independent thinking. So if they don't want to work with a coach, it's the A to Z of how to grow a law firm. And here's the kicker, and also gain more freedom in your life. Not just money, not just growth, not just bigger and better, but also uh freedom in your life. So I'm totally stoked for it to uh launch, and we've got a huge massive campaign we're building around it because there's nothing like it on the market. Nothing. It's kind of like if you if you I use Duolingo because it's probably one of the most widely known, right, educational apps. It's kind of like the Duolingo for lawyers on how to grow a law firm business.

Kevin 12:54

That's so interesting. How did you get that initial idea? I guess.

Gary Mitchell 12:57

I haven't I don't even remember because like I said, it's 20 years ago. I just I don't know, with technology was I've never been as technology as you know at my age, I've seen all everything's been new in my lifetime. Yeah. Right.

Kevin 13:09

Yeah.

Gary Mitchell 13:10

And I've never shied away from it. I was always been curious. And I don't know where or how I came up with the idea originally. I guess because I was starting to learn about apps, right? And uh try certain apps myself. I thought, I wonder. But anyway, it's taken it's been a it's been a long road, but here we are, and we're just a few weeks away, and it's it's called the law firm accelerator. Accelerator.

Kevin 13:34

And you said something really interesting too, because uh yes, like the app kind of teaches them how to grow their law firm, right? Grow their business. But then you were talking about like freedom here in the life. And how would you define like, or how would either your clients define freedom in their life? What are some examples, I guess, of freedom in their life?

Gary Mitchell 13:53

And again, freedom will mean different things to different people, right? Yes. One of the most widely common definitions of freedom is being able to travel with your spouse more, having more time with the kids, being able to travel, being able to walk away from the office and have it running without them. That's the most common theme for freedom. And you know, we're talking, you're in Vietnam, I'm in Mexico right now. I work from Mexico in the winter and have since 2010. That's freedom for me, right? I don't have to be on the ground in Vancouver or Toronto or anywhere else. And I can show most lawyers how they can do that themselves. In fact, you know, I can't take all credit for this, too. One of my one of my early uh clients, he was going to Costa Rica in the wintertime. He was from Toronto and he'd go down to Costa Rica for four months and schedule everything around it, right? He was a litigator, so obviously you have to be in person in courtrooms, right? But he would schedule everything and work around it. I I I helped them first with the mindset that you know, like the book is called the and approach because it's all about and, not or, not but, and growing a law for a successful law firm and gaining more freedom. So the first thing is mindset. I work with my clients on the mindset to have them understand and open up to the idea that it is possible. That's the first step. Because they've never thought that before. That was not conditioned, not programmed in law school, not programmed, especially if they worked at a big, a large firm. So the first thing is is helping them to understand that yes, it is possible. And then I show them how.

Kevin 15:29

And so at this point, you're you're putting out content, you have this app coming up, you have your books, you're probably writing about uh the and mindset or the and approach that you're talking about before. I'm sure people at this point are just like raising their hands and they're like, oh my God, Gary, how do I work with you? And so I know some coaches do one-on-one coaching, some do group, but there's a lot of different modalities, right? But what do your coaching engagements and offerings kind of look like?

Gary Mitchell 15:57

Well, the premium is obviously the one-to-one. Nothing can replace that. And that's weekly, right? I offer bi-weekly or weekly, depending on how fast they want to move. And also after the app is launched, I will be uh creating a mastermind, a monthly uh live stream call for group. So it'll be uh a broad-based once a month live going through the content, having having it open up to questions and answer like live. Actually coaching. So I'll I'll uh open that up to group. I love what I do, Kevin, and I don't see um I don't want to overdo it. I don't need to be greedy, right? But there's only so much I have of my time. So I have I've got a pretty much I've got a good balance, right? I have to be able to time for writing, which I love, and speaking. So yes, I've got the premium is the one-to-one, and then I'll be launching the law firm owners masterclass after the app is out.

Kevin 16:47

Which yeah, which leads me to ask this, right? Because if one to one is your premium offer, right? It sounds like what you're doing is pre-intimate, especially if you're getting into the mindset stuff, right? And so how do you make Yes. Yeah. And so how do you manage your client capacity so your cup stays full? You know? Do you have like staff?

Gary Mitchell 17:08

Do you well like 20 years in, I know I pretty much know what my uh capacity is, and I like my freedom. I like going to I took up I came down here November 2nd, I took up pickleball. Okay, so it's a new sport for me. I go to the gym. I'm an advid, advid gym goer. I love to sing. I like to explore, get out, and walk on the Malicon, which is like the seawall here in uh Puerto Verde. I'm a foodie, so I enjoy new dining experiences and cooking myself. I love to cook, it's another creative outlet. So I'm not giving that up. That's my life. That's what makes me happy, right? I've got a good balance of what I remember a friend of mine said, does it feed your soul? There's the question. Does it feed your soul? If I can say yes, then I'm doing it. It's part of my life. If it doesn't feed my soul, I'm not doing it, quite simply. I mean, now there's certain things, right, that we all must do in business. Uh, for instance, I'll give you an example, right? I have my bookkeeper and accountant, and for years I was always like, uh, and then like last year, last year I just made the habit which I teach my clients when it's something you usually procrastinate, something you don't like, do it first. So my new habit is six o'clock in the morning on the first of each month. I'm doing the books from the previous month off to the account before eight. And it's done. And I actually have turned something that I used to hate into something that I look forward to because it's getting it off my plate, right? So and I teach my clients that too. Like we all procrastinate, we all have things that we would rather not do, right? And I'm like, get it done first, man. Then the rest of your day is all yours, right?

Kevin 18:48

Yeah, yeah. And it seems like you've over the 20 years, right? It seems like you've kind of designed your your coaching practice to be small and lean and all that. Doesn't seem like you have that much overhead. Seems intentional.

Gary Mitchell 19:05

No? No. I don't have much overhead at all. No. Yeah. Actually, one of the biggest things I did, smartest things I did in 20 years is I brought on an EA December 1st. She has proved remarkably valuable. I did work with her a few years ago. I had a through an agency called Virtual Gurus, where they placed virtual assistants. So I had her working with me for a couple of hours a month before, and then I approached her because I always knew in the back of my mind that she had the right attitude. See, this is what I always tell my clients attitude is everything. Hire for attitude before marks, before experience, before whatever, hire for attitude. Because she'll make mistakes, we all do, right? But she will get, she'll fix it, she'll find out, she'll get in there, learn, and improve. And that's the kind of attitude I want, right? So this was the best, I would say the best business decision I've made in 20 years is getting an EA. It's freed me up to do more of the high-level stuff, more of the fun stuff, right? And having having a second set of eyes on the marketing, on the branding, on the communication, I love it. I love brainstorming and collaborating. I truly do.

Kevin 20:14

Have you ever thought about like hiring on a second coach or anything like that too?

Gary Mitchell 20:18

Or do you like no uh I did think about it in uh 2008, 2009? I did have a few coaches on uh on on contract and I went through the process and I'll I'll never I I'll actually tell you a story about my dad. My dad was self-employed, he was a graphic artist. And when I started my first business uh at 25 in Toronto, I built a national event from from nothing, right? From scratch. It got quite a quite a lot of notoriety, notoriety. Anyway, I remember, you know, in my 20s, I was 25. I want to be king of the world. I want to create this big, massive corporation and blah, blah, blah, be a multi-trillionaire, whatever. Anyway, so I remember asking my dad, because two of his colleagues uh that he worked with went on to create two of the largest design houses in Toronto. And he stayed single. Like he would have another graphic artist on contract for over like over uh overflow. But he told me then, and I didn't understand it, but I always listen, Kevin. I always listen to people like and it sticks with me, and maybe I didn't hear it in the moment. But he said, I love what I do. I don't want to be spending my time managing other people doing what I love to do. And I went after 2009, I was like, uh-huh, I get it. Now here's the kicker. The next phase for my growth, franchising, which I am aiming to do by the end of the year. Because I would like to help other coaches give them a platform with which to build a career on. So that's the next after the after the app and the book and all that's launched, the next project is franchising.

Kevin 21:52

Love that. I love that little lesson that you uh picked up from your dad. So funny. The 25 year old ego can always get

Gary Mitchell 22:00

Like you know what I'm talking about, right? You're in your twenties, you want to build this massive whatever. You have no idea what you're talking about. You know nothing, basically. And I just laugh at that all the time because you know, as I've gotten older, I'm like, wow, my dad was smart. So smart. And he passed on so much to me. I'm so grateful.

Kevin 22:18

Speaking about like passing on knowledge, something that I'm also very, very curious about too, since you've been in the game for a while, is a lot of coaches that come on here struggle with things like uh pricing. What do I charge? How do I package this right? Of course, Gary, you don't have to give me any hard numbers on this podcast or anything like that. But I'm kind of curious like, how do you think about pricing and structure, structuring your packages today? And how has that evolved over years?

Gary Mitchell 22:46

That's a good question because I think if there's a if there are other coaches who are new to the profession listening to this, that's just something everyone struggles with. Anyone in professional services struggles with that, even my clients struggle with it. So basically, what I look at is the impact. Okay. They're not buying my time. It's not by the minute or by the hour or whatever. I mean, it's like I remember this story, Paul Barati would make $2 million a concert. But did he really make $2 million in two hours? No. He made $2 million because he spent 30 years perfecting his craft, right? So again, it's like 20 years of experience, hundreds of clients. My curriculum, my intellectual property, yes, there is time. It's a I do a monthly retainer. I never have a solid contract. I have a you know operational memorandum where people will give me 30 days' notice if they wish to cancel. But there's nothing never anything tied down. As long as I'm showing results, my clients will keep me. So it's it's a retainer, it's based on impact. And I'll give you an example. If I'm working with a law firm owner, then that rate, that that retainer is going to be higher than if I'm just working with a solo lawyer. Because my ability to help them increase the revenue is directly related to what stage they are at. Does that make sense?

Kevin 24:06

Yeah. Minds me when some people would go.

Gary Mitchell 24:09

Some people would go, my hourly rate is this. No, I've never been that. No, no. It's the impact, it's the value that will come from the engagement. That's how I've I've measured my fees.

Kevin 24:21

What's an example? Like, I guess during a discovery call or during a conversation, how do you uncover like the impact, those impact questions? And how do you kind of tie it to specific um like numbers or quantify it, I guess, in your mind?

Gary Mitchell 24:37

Well, there will be, I mean, we'll talk in a discovery call, we will talk about current revenue. We'll talk about goal revenue, whether what are they aiming for? So that's obviously the easiest thing to measure. What's less, what's less, what's less tangible to measure, but still quantifiable, is how they feel. When they get to that point where they know they can get on a plane and not worry that the office is running on its own, I just remind them, and what is that worth? Only they can answer. I can't answer that question, but I can tell you from experience, it's worth a hell of a lot. A lot.

Kevin 25:10

Yeah. I always love those conversations. Actually, one of my favorite authors is up in uh your neck of the woods in uh Vancouver and stuff, Blair Ends. He talks about value-based pricing all the time. And I find I find it so interesting about how people quantify like very subjective type of things of like, oh, I want to spend time with my spouse or I want to spend time with my kids and equating it to a dollar amount. So yeah, it's really, really interesting stuff.

Gary Mitchell 25:36

Well, it's the it's the same thing as when when a lawyer, because they don't like to give up control. It's one of their personality traits they like to have. Yeah. I would agree. So when I'm working with with someone and work, I'm trying to tell them, okay, if you want to grow, if you want freedom, there's going to be a few steps. And one of those steps is you're going to have to let go of control, you're going to have to build a team around you. But here's the thing: what do you charge an hour? Answer could be 500, 700, maybe 800, 1,000, maybe, top-tier uh lawyer at an international firm. Okay. And you're struggling to put this uh uh article together, you can hire someone for one 20th minimum of what you're billing an hour. And they're gonna do a hell of a lot better job at it than you will. So you're leaving money on the table. So that's another way I'll show them how to make more money. It's not just about bringing more money in, it's how to be using their time most effectively. Like I'll do a time audit with them and I was start, I start with the law firm owner, and then I'll go through everyone in the management or leadership team and make sure that everyone is functioning at their highest level. They're not doing things that should be delegated down. Yes. Because what I've always found like is that the lawyers try and do all like they're just they try to do everything on their own. It's been the number one uh challenge. And no matter if they're solo practice, if they're a partner at a large firm, or if they're a law firm owner, they're trying to do everything on their own. And I just remind them did you want to take that one-month trip to Spain with your wife? Okay. Well, how do you do that? Do you shut the door to the law firm or do you build a team? A team you can trust, a team you can rely on, a team that's gonna run it just as good, if not better, than you. And you can go to Spain with your wife. I'm just using Spain as an example out of the blue.

Kevin 27:27

Yeah, yeah. Maybe a better projection. Maybe you want to go to Spain.

Gary Mitchell 27:30

I should be talking Italy since the the Olympics start tomorrow. Yeah. I should have I should have brought up it Italy, but uh Cortina Milano or Milano Cortina, anyway.

Kevin 27:40

Yeah, that that's so helpful too, because I think a lot of times, especially new coaches, I see them get so caught up with like hourly rates and all that sort of stuff. Whereas more advanced coaches, they go toward more of the value-based pricing and all that and have those. You know what?

Gary Mitchell 27:55

I only I only went through the pain and agony of hourly for one year. It was my first year. And I actually asked that that former lawyer who gave me the idea to coach lawyers in the beginning. I actually asked him for his feedback and he helped me come up with an hourly rate to start. And then by the end of my first year, I don't even think it uh I don't even think I waited till the end of that first year. It was within one year, I went to value-based. I went right off the hourly.

Kevin 28:21

And it's so interesting because uh certain industries like attorneys, lawyers, they love hourly-based for some reason. Like there's certain certain pricing models that they love, but it's really interesting that you're able to charge a value-based pricing in a industry that's like completely hourly. They charge hourly to the clients.

Gary Mitchell 28:41

Not completely, not completely. Some of the more forward-thinking, innovative entrepreneurial lawyers have moved to value-based. And I've I've been screaming it at the top of the mountaintop for 20 years, get off the hourly rate. I mean, your clients, here's the thing, and they will agree with me. We don't care how much time it takes, we're just focused on the outcome, right? That's what matters. The outcome. So that's why I taught my fee is based on the outcome I will deliver. And I by the way, I guarantee it. I do have a guarantee. Okay. So because I know I know what I do works, right?

Kevin 29:17

Yeah.

Gary Mitchell 29:18

So I can guarantee it. But the smarter ones will be, I know, damn. I mean, it's kind of like this, it's a noose around their neck, the billable hour. I mean, can you imagine living your life in six-minute increments? That's how they do it for the hour every six minutes. It's like one, a point one or something. Like it's like I can't even. I mean, no way. No way would I live my life like that. No way. My clients hate it too. They totally hate it. It seems like it's almost like they're they're like the lawyer is like penny pinching or biting off, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, okay, I've got this problem, or I need this contract, or I need this document. Like, tell me how much. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, you've been doing it for how many years? You have an idea of how much time it's gonna take. You know the value of it, because if it prevents this, if it prevents A from happening, or it allows B to move forward, there's a value you can uh attach to that, right? And clients will appreciate it more too, because then they're gonna know budget. Hmm, I got this much. Like, even my my corporate lawyer when I'm incorporating or doing trademark or whatever, I know right off the bat what I'm dealing with. She's not gonna be like charging me by the hour. By the way, she was the riding president in the association that I ran, and then when I ran the candidates nomination, so she's still in my life, she's my corporate lawyer. Yeah. So crazy. I'll see her when I get back to Vancouver. Her and her husband, we go to we go to the Keg uh patio in Yale Town in Vancouver a couple times in the summer. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's the prime rib place.

Kevin 30:55

Is that the prime rib place in uh Vancouver? Yep, so I've been there a few times. Yeah, I love it. Man, something that's really inspiring about you is like you've been in the game for so long, and I think most people around your season, they think about settling down, but you're thinking about actually expanding through their franchising and all that, which I find really, really interesting. Yeah.

Gary Mitchell 31:17

No, well, see, this is this is where we get back to the original. I am a serial entrepreneur. Like, I there's something about growing, there's something about the creative process, about building things that I just love. And so I was able to stumble into a business that I get to help other people build things every single day. Like people have asked me about retirement. I'm like, are you on crack? Why would I retire? I love what I do. I can do it from anywhere in the world. I can still I can travel, I can tone it down, right? I can pare down a little bit and probably will, but I truly love what I'm doing. So, like, I don't know. I want to keep I want to keep doing it as long as I can keep doing it. And then to be honest with the franchising part, and a lot of coaches that who are listening to this will identify with this. There are a number of vultures that have been out on the market targeting coaches for for many years. I know I've been the uh victim a few times of buying into certain things, and it's disgusting. I want to give coaches uh a platform, like not only how to build, right? Because coaches are kind of like lawyers. There are many that are great at the craft, but not so good at the business part. So I want to give them an A to Z of a platform. You know, my franchise consultant, he asked me to, we're talking December, he asked me, so do you envision on-track being everywhere? I said, absolutely not. As a business coach, I'm gonna advise the franchise franchisees to brand their own. Right. Like, why would I want I don't care? It's not McDonald's, right? I want my franchisees to be successful and I'm gonna help them brand their own thing, right? So I'm looking forward to it. I really am, because I'll still be coaching. I'll be coaching the franchisees, and then they're gonna go off and they're gonna coach whatever, whatever industry, whatever. I mean, this stuff is applicable across the board because we're talking about the people part of the business, which is always the most challenging. Technology, press a button, learn, learn a new app, learn a new uh program, learn this. It's easy, easy peasy. People, that's the hard part.

Kevin 33:26

That's a hard part. Yeah, yeah.

Gary Mitchell 33:27

That's you always hear these.

Kevin 33:29

Yeah, you always hear about these stories about these like rich fam like the Rothschilds or like these like really super rich families, and they have this plan, but then it completely falls apart because of the people aspect. Like people have their own ambitions, their own desires and stuff. And yeah, it's just really, really speaking about challenges here. I think on social media, sometimes it's really easy to see all the highlight reels of all the great stuff that is happening. But something I've kind of seen in business is that the problems kind of evolve over time. And some people might call them challenges, but I like to call them growing pains. What are some growing pains that you're noticing in this season of business for you right now, if you're open to sharing?

Gary Mitchell 34:10

The number one growing pain has always been how I can go from a record, record revenue to zero overnight and up again. It's the the unpredictable nature of this business, right? Clients will come on board or decide they're done on a whim and have no control over whatsoever. And I don't, I don't really think a contract is going to make any difference, Kevin. Like it's I'm dealing with lawyers, right? If they're signing on, they're signing on. I don't need to have that written in blood. But the you are still at the whim of the client and and what's going on in their world with their business. So I would say that has been and always been. And I don't know, to be honest, I think if I could solve that problem, we wouldn't be on this call because I'd be on my own private island, to be honest. If I could solve that problem for myself and all the other coaches out there, yeah, I would be on Mitchell Island somewhere in the Caribbean.

Kevin 35:04

Yeah. Cause I think about the nature of content marketing, which I love in referrals, right? And it's so great because we can educate people while we're sleeping. It's kind of hard because you can't really control the the flow of the lead sometimes, you know, into your business. Yeah. No. Yeah. Interesting. Have you ever experimented with any like type of market, like any paid marketing or anything like that in the past or like I did uh a few years ago.

Gary Mitchell 35:32

Uh I experimented with different types of paid advertising. It just doesn't work. It doesn't work at all. Like we we had targeted, again, like most people don't like to be sold to. The challenge, and again, this is for the coaches listening in, especially newbie newbie coaches, our product is intangible. You can't hold on to it, right? And I'll use my my target audience, which I believe to be the hardest target audience to reach on the planet, lawyers.

Kevin 35:58

Yeah.

Gary Mitchell 35:58

Because they don't like to be sold to times a hundred. When it comes to a bespoke suit or a house in you know Beverly Hills, I'll say that because everyone knows Beverly Hills is a high-end neighborhood in in Los Angeles. I could use the you know, Shaughnessy in Vancouver, Rosedale in Toronto, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't know what it is in Vegas, your hometown. Uh Ferrari, you can get in it. You sit in it, you drive it. It's you're touching it. It's ephoral. It's out there, right? It's really, really challenging. And one of the things I've always maintained is I never push and I never pull. You're either ready for it and you get it, or you don't.

Kevin 36:38

Yeah.

Gary Mitchell 36:38

It's tough because you don't have like there's many other businesses. I could get a job doing what I'm doing. Uh, probably make more stable money, but it might stifle me, right?

Kevin 36:50

It's kind of funny that you mentioned Beverly Hills because uh I used to have a lot of patients there. I used to live in LA and all that for a period for like almost eight years. Yeah. And uh it's kind of funny because I get so inspired by um, you know, the I don't I don't know what you want to cook star like coaches like Tony Robbins and stuff, and how they create experience and how everybody in that area just like goes because it's kind of like a trend and stuff like that, too. It's really, really interesting, like the different levels to to coaching as well, like marketing. I'm also really, really curious too, as you were growing your practice, right? You know, a lot of people invest into different have different investments, right? Like masterminds, uh other coaches. There's a ultimate, like so many things that you can invest in. Kind of curious about like your best like business investment you made so far. And kind of like this one's a bit cheeky, but kind of like the worst one that you kind of wish you got your money back.

Gary Mitchell 37:50

Well, the worst one I won't mention a brand name, but it was one of the one of the coaching but one of the coaching platforms that's out there. Um it was it was just crap in my there's no better word better word crap. It was just crap. The best one. Well, that's hard to say. I'll tell you one thing that I'm religious about is audiobooks. I'm listening to audiobooks every day. I find it uh I absorb it much easier. And actually, like I'm hell bent on making sure this book, this fourth book, gets to audiobook version because lawyers don't have time to sit down and actually read something outside of their already busy schedule. They'll do it on the way to the gym, at the gym, maybe out for a run, on the subway, in the car. So anyway, I'm the same way. To sit down and actually devote time to actually read something, I can't fathom. But audiobook, I listen every day, every day. And I'm actually most of the time, I will go if I really like a book, I will go through it twice. Yeah. So as far as as far as a class, I mean, I've had mentors. I've had I've had my own coach a couple times. I've had personal trainers at the gym. I've had different coaches for different things. As far as like a platform, I wouldn't say no, I didn't, I didn't go that route, but I've definitely had a lot of support. Like my dedication in the book is to all the teachers, trainers, mentors, people that have helped me in my life and my career. Absolutely.

Kevin 39:14

Yeah.

Gary Mitchell 39:14

Nobody does this, nobody does this alone.

Kevin 39:17

Yeah, I think that's the biggest lie of entrepreneurship of like self-made, because no one's ever self-made. There's no such thing.

Gary Mitchell 39:23

There's no such thing. Like when you actually read, I because I love studying entrepreneurs, I love studying businesses, self-improvement, communication, everything. Like I'm just a sponge, right? There is no such thing as self-made or overnight success. Doesn't happen. Uh-uh. No, no.

Kevin 39:41

When you know kind of reminds me of an science class when you're learning about neurons and stuff and the action potential, like there's all these small different like things that are happening, and then you see the velocity all of a sudden, and that feels a lot like business sometimes, you know? Like where you see you know, it's really interesting. That's actually why we're called purple circles, because like purple, if you study your brand colors, is the color of royalty and transformation. And uh a circle is like in order for any transformation to happen, you need a circle of people to do it with. And that back and forth with that collaboration that you're talking about is like, man, we're all about the the the conversations, the collaborations and like community and stuff, and that is so valuable. Yeah. With that being said, Gary, I'm sure we could go on for another hour or so. But if you feel like you're on the cusp of the up and up, how can people find you and connect with you and follow your journey, Gary? Yeah. Gary, something that really strikes me is like, you know, someone so late in your game, like like I mentioned this before earlier in the podcast, where people are trying to settle down, you're still so focused on making impact and doing bigger things and pushing yourself and stuff too. And it's really, really inspiring, you know? And I think that's my long-winded way of just saying, hey, I really appreciate your work. Your work really matters, it's making a difference. And thank you so much for sharing your experience, your time, your advice on pricing, especially, and your wisdom on this podcast today. Thank you so much, Gary.

Davis Nguyen 41:17

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This podcast was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, or even $100,000 weeks, all without burning out and making sure that you're making the impact and having the life that you want. To learn more about our community and how we can help you, visit join purplecircle.com.