Rethinking Leadership for a Changing World with Kelly Wendorf

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets our guest is Kelly Wendorf, an executive and personal coach, International Coach Federation Master Certified Coach (MCC), author, and founder of EQUUS, a transformational leadership development organization that blends neuroscience, contemplative wisdom, indigenous knowledge, and nature-based intelligence to help leaders unlock their full potential. Known by some as the “CEO whisperer” and even a “corporate shaman,” Kelly has worked with organizations ranging from global companies like Amazon and Microsoft to mission-driven communities around the world, guiding individuals and teams through profound personal and professional transformation. She is also the author of Flying Lead Change: 56 Million Years of Wisdom for Leading and Living, where she explores leadership lessons inspired by the social intelligence of horse herds and ancient earth-based wisdom. In this conversation, Kelly shares powerful insights on conscious leadership, self-agency, purpose-driven careers, and how empathy, presence, and awareness can reshape the way we lead in business and life.

You can find her on:
https://www.equusinspired.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelly-wendorf/
https://www.equusinspired.com/how-to-lead-a-transformative-life
Code: EQUUS100KWU

Transcript

Kelly Wendorf 0:00

So I had been coaching for many years and I was sort of not so keen on getting ICF certified because I was like, I don't need the initials. I'm I'm coaching, I've got clients, it's fine, whatever. But I had a client come and bring one of the she was a coach. She sat on the board of the ICF, she brought a client to come and work with me. And when we were done, she she pulled me aside and she said, you know, you you're a master coach, and I I really urge you to get your MCC. I do. And it's gonna be a lot of work and you're gonna do a lot of hours and you're gonna feel like you're going back to kindergarten. But I think you I think it'll be important for you. And it was.

Davis Nguyen 0:43

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro Stein 1:15

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro, and today's guest is Callie Wendorf, an ICF master certified coach, published author, motivational speaker, and founder and CEO of Equis, an innovative leadership and self-mastery organization. With decades of global experience studying with spiritual and indigenous leaders across India, Africa, Indonesia, and Australia, Callie helps organizations and leaders cultivate meaningful change through servant leadership, experiential learning, and innovative business development. Her work spans high-profile clients like Amazon and Microsoft, as well as underserved communities, combining practical strategy with deep human insight. Kelly is known for creating transformative learning experiences, including wisdom circles, a peer learning process for sustained change, and the Aquis Experience, an equine assistant program exploring leadership, power, and self-mastery. Through these and other custom design processes, she empowers leaders to unlock profound capacities, actualize purpose-driven lives, and achieve success beyond conventional imagination. Welcome to the show, Callie.

Kelly Wendorf 2:43

Thank you. Nice to be here, Pedro.

Pedro Stein 2:45

I'm excited that you're here. Definitely. And you know, you have that background with equines and coaching. And I always like to go back to the origin story, you know, how did all that happen? And before we get what you do know, you know, I'm curious, you know, how how this actually started? What was going on in your life when coaching became more than just an idea?

Kelly Wendorf 3:07

I love that question. And and you know, I actually take it back all the way into my early childhood. Uh, not that I, you know, knew I wanted to be a coach then, but I did have an experience. Um, my father um is an archaeologist, and he, you know, our family trips were all over the world, Egypt and Ethiopia and Africa. And when I was seven years old, uh, my father hired an aroma warrior to be a kind of bodyguard for me and my little brother while he was out on the digs. And I had a really powerful relationship with this man, even though we didn't speak the same language, uh, we just had a kinship. And I had an experience with him that um is hard to describe. And all I can say is it what it did was it lifted a veil so that I could see that the sort of contemporary culture and understanding that we're all separate, that I could see through this experience with this man that, oh, in fact, we're all connected. And there is so much more love and possibility available to us as human beings that we're just not seeing. Um, and that moment, even though it was a moment that lasted just a few minutes, that moment informed the rest of my life because I was always holding these two, this, these two kind of worlds, a world that says we're separate and we should be afraid and we're only capable of so much, and another world that says we're connected, we're part of a kin a kinship that helps us grow and evolve and be really amazing, miraculous human beings. And so that kind of set my compass to go to go towards coaching ultimately, because it's that question of what conditions need to be in place to help people to wake up to those possibilities. What are those conditions? And so I founded many businesses kind of focused on that question, and ultimately what I discovered was that people can only find that for themselves, for themselves, if they're given good companionship with a with a witness, a coach, and if they have meaningful experiences that help them to see that. And so that was ultimately how I became a coach, but it was always to serve this question around what conditions does it take to help people to thrive.

Pedro Stein 5:45

I love that. That's profound. Okay. You know, I was uh hearing a podcast uh with an astronaut uh a while ago, and they had this experience when they I'm I'm not gonna butcher the name, but there's a name to it. Okay, it's when they're in the outer space and they're looking at Earth and they're feeling like we're one, you know? And it I imagine it's hard to explain the feeling, but it's to an extent, it's somewhat the level you connected with that person, even if it was for you know, for a few minutes, you were like, Oh, I get it. You know, it's it's somewhat like that.

Kelly Wendorf 6:20

Exactly, it's exactly like that. That's exactly it. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for hearing it. And I think for a lot of us who are coaches, there has probably been some kind of meaningful experience like that in our past, like in our way past when we were children, where we we sensed possibility, right, that was outside of the normal construct of what we're told we can do or we can be. So yeah, that was mine.

Pedro Stein 6:47

Interesting. Okay. And but I want to dive in a little bit uh into the equine, you know, the horses. How they they they they they joined you in your coaching experience.

Kelly Wendorf 6:58

Well, um, so I've been a lifelong equestrian. There were times in my life when I was a professional equestrian. I I was a trainer, I professionally showed horses. Uh, but horses have been in my life since I was a tiny child, and they've been consummate teachers. If you're really listening, they really have such great feedback about whether you're trustworthy, are you really, is your energy lining up with the words that you're saying? Um, you know, all these really powerful things. What I realized as a coach was that my work could be really powerful if I paired my coaching when possible with meaningful experiences. So about gosh, um 15 years ago, I realized, oh, hang on. There's a way that the horses are teaching me to show up as a better human, more present, more accountable, more congruent with you know what I really feel and my values. And they're teaching me that. I bet you they could teach my clients that as well. So about 80% of my work is virtual, you know, like you uh as a coach. But a small percentage of my work, when people choose to come out here to Santa Fe, New Mexico, where I live and work, they can work with my herd of horses. And the horses will give them feedback that is far more reliable than the feedback I could give them. And so that's why I brought the horses in because I felt like it exponentiated the transformational process that's possible in coaching. And selfishly, as a business owner, you know, I have a lifestyle and it's around horses and it's around being in the out of doors. And so this was a way that my business could shape itself to be a lifestyle business and really support my horse habit, you know, and that that works wonderfully because that way it becomes kind of seamless, my work, my life, what I love, you know, what I want to bring my clients into. And so I have this little ranch here with a herd of eight equines and and the mountains right at my back door, and it all becomes a playground for the coaching clients that want to come here and be here in person.

Pedro Stein 9:24

It's like you set it up to a win-win situation. And worst case scenario, I'm kipping the horses, right? I love it.

Kelly Wendorf 9:33

That's right. And yeah, and it just really um, you know, when you create a business that instead of you're serving your business and you're a slave to your business, but instead you flip it and your business serves you and serves what you love and serves your lifestyle? Well, then every day is a good day, right? Even when there's challenging times and a horse is going to the hospital or a client and has is having a hard time or a bill is coming in that's like crazy. You're you're when when the business serves you, it all is worth it.

Pedro Stein 10:07

I love that. You know, and at what point did it stop feeling like a side thing or a calling, the coaching, okay? And start feeling like an actual business you are responsible for. You know that shift.

Kelly Wendorf 10:20

Yes, I do. And and there were, you know, there were many years where you know, I didn't charge or I didn't charge enough, and and I had imposter syndrome, and I really, you know, or people just kind of saw me as the horse girl, you know. When did it shift? It shifted, it shifted when this is interesting. It's when so I had been coaching for many years, and I was sort of not so keen on getting ICF certified, uh, because I was like, I don't need the initials, I'm I'm coaching, I've got clients, it's fine, whatever. But I had a client come and bring one of the, she was a coach, she sat on the board of the ICF, she brought a client to come and work with me. And when we were done, she she pulled me aside and she said, you know, you you're a master coach, and I I really urge you to get your MCC. I do. And it's gonna be a lot of work and you're gonna do a lot of hours and you're gonna feel like you're going back to kindergarten. But I think you I think it'll be important for you. And it was, and I'll tell you why, not because I've got the letters after my name, because quite honestly, I don't know who reads those. I don't.

Pedro Stein 11:37

Um, but or hide or hide behind those, right?

Kelly Wendorf 11:40

Or hide behind them, exactly. Yes, and so, but what the inside game of going into a formal organization and kind of going back and learning my scale, so to speak, like learning some of the frameworks that were anyway supporting my intuition. It it kind of did something where it was like, oh, like I've got this and I really can help people. And and so somehow it reinvesting in my in my learning as a coach helped me to stand up and go, oh, this, this, this is game on. I'm doing it now. This is real. And then getting those letters just was sort of the candy on top. But yeah, it was something about that, interestingly. Yeah.

Pedro Stein 12:27

Great. Okay, now once you were out there helping people, right? Who did you end up naturally attracting? You know, when when did you realize, okay, this is the people I can help, I can help the most, you know, because there's a lot of uh trial and error at the start, right? You're trying to the the coaches are trying to embrace the entire world. So eventually you you you realize, hey, these are the people I want I I can work best with.

Kelly Wendorf 12:52

Right. And I've found over time that the more niche I am, the better I do, right? Um, and all of that, as you said, is trial and error. Um, so I'll be do a bit of a reveal. Um, I have always been the kind of person that learns things the hard way. I have I'm a I'm a bit of a light bloomer, and I seem to have to go through trial and difficulty and challenges to really get the core curriculum of something that's super important. And so I've had a couple of failed marriages, a couple of failed businesses, you know, some hard stuff with family. And looking back, all of that was kind of a curriculum to set me up to serve folks who are really elbow deep in a very, very scary transformation. Whether it's I'm about to leave my career of 30 years and start a new business, I'm about to leave my husband, I'm about to leave my wife, um, I'm about to quit drinking. You know, they're at some powerful inflection point that scares the heck out of them. Um, and they're arriving at that inflection point a little bit battered and bruised in terms of like, whoa, I just, I'm so over it. Um I'm ready to make the change and I'm scared to death because it's a huge leap. Those are my people. Um, and I'm good going into kind of the dark, unspeakable places where people feel ashamed of, or for whatever reason, you know, um, or are embarrassed by, or they feel like this can't be part of a coaching conversation. But for me, it's the whole human. So we go there and I sort of turn on the flashlight and go, you see all this, all this stuff down here, it's really okay. It's really okay. And we're gonna get to the other side together. And so people end up, you know, making some really powerful shifts in their life that they they just hardly recognize themselves on the other side. So that's all very hard to put on a website, that kind of thing. And a lot of folks, right, they don't even realize they're at that point necessarily, or they're kind of kidding themselves and they're in denial that they're at that point. So there's a little bit of I don't know, belly button radar or something that brings them to me and attracts them to me. And and yeah, we find each other in that way. And I have right, like I have a sense of like, I can I can help you. Like, I just have a knowing, like, I can I can go there with you. I I believe in you and I can go there with you. And that's kind of the sense I have too. So I don't just take anybody, even though it's super tempting when times have been thin, is that I have to feel like a little bit like what you all do in this podcast, you know, you don't just take anybody on this podcast. Like, are they the right people? And I have to feel like, do I truly believe in this person? Can I get behind them? And can I go the places I know we need to go and be forthcoming and honest and direct, be willing to be fired by them. Can I take risks in that way? And if I have a full body yes to that, they're they're my client. Um, if I don't, then someone else needs to be their coach.

Pedro Stein 16:31

Okay. I I want to jump in that boat, okay. Uh, right off the bat, because you mentioned something that sparked my curiosity, like the marketing aspect, right? So we're talking about the elbow deep, the scary moments. That's this is a very custom situation.

Kelly Wendorf 16:48

So, how do they usually find you in the first it is, and honestly, I will say I don't know if I have this nut cracked, but I can tell you it works for me. That's what I'll say. I'm not about to say like everybody should do it this way, but uh a couple of things. First, for gosh, Pedro, for close to 30 years, I have been writing essays. I am a writer, that is one of my love affairs. I love to write. I would write if nobody was reading, it's just my love affair. And that writing has served to be a beacon that kind of just shines out into the world. And if I had a penny for every person who eventually calls me and says, I've been reading your work for 10 years and now I finally have the courage to call you.

unknown 17:43

Okay.

Kelly Wendorf 17:44

And so what I love to tell the coaches that I train is find something you love. Like for me, it's writing. For you, it may be a podcast. For someone else, it may be doing short videos or, you know, or um, you know, poetry or whatever. Find the thing you love, love, love and shine that out into the world. Because just like making a business that serves you, you'll never feel like you're working hard because you just you do it, right? You just do it and you do it consistently. No one has to tell you to do it consistently. You just do it. I do my essays once a month, and and over time that will come have incredible rewards. Um, and it's important because people, you know, coaching is an investment and it's an investment of money, but it's also an investment of vulnerability and spirit and soul. And so people are kind of like, who is this coach? Who is this Kelly? What does she believe? What's she on about? How what does she own? What is she like? And they get to know me in a way that it on their time that at some point by the time they call me, it's a yes. It's a hell yes, right? By the time they call me. So that's that's number one. Um, and I would say that that was primary to almost everything else that I did. Um, I do have a marketing team that do does some social media, but we actually've gotten off of Facebook and Instagram and TikTok because of our values. So we do Substack and we have a mail list. So it's it's very simple. And the other part around so that beacon thing is really important because you're kind of sending out who you are. The other piece that I guess it could fall under marketing because it is, it's what draws people to me is I am very outspoken about who I am and what my beliefs are. I do not try to make myself generic. I do not blur my lines so I can fit to please everybody. And in fact, as you know, there's a lot going on in the United States right now. And in that time, I have become more opinionated, more clear about my views and my values, and I won't hide under the guise of apoliticism because people need to know who I am as a coach. And that there are a lot of people who are gonna say, she's not my gal. Great, they're not my person either. But what I found, Pedro, this has been so fascinating because there was a moment like a couple of years ago when everything, or like last year when things really started to go dark here at this country. I was like, what's am I gonna, am I gonna make a stand? Am I gonna really show who I am in the face of this highly polarized moment in this country? And I decided, yes, I am, like really am. And do you know that my coaching um inquiries have shot out the roof since I've become more kind of distinct as a human with her beliefs and her ideals and her values? And the reason I put that under marketing is because that it's not what you do as a coach, it's who you are. You know, people, it's your character and who you are. And people who want to coach with you kind of they feel that and they they want to feel like there is someone in the trenches with them that they can really lean on and believe in and trust, right? So I think when you show up as a as a distinct person with distinct values, that makes you trustworthy. Regardless of what those values are, it's gonna make you trustworthy to your clients because it's congruent.

Pedro Stein 21:46

Right. I love that, especially when we're talking about this hot topic, right? AI, everyone's talking about. And then we have powerful copy, we have a powerful, um, I would say, the courage to to make. Stand it just shows people that you're a person and that you're not just pushing copy, you know, you're not just having that bland post about trying to appeal to everyone, but at the same time appealing to nobody. So it's it gives you character, it gives you it gives you integrity, and I think that that's something uh that AI, and especially when like when we're talking sometimes, and we we notice it's a chatbot or it reeks AI, and we're like, eh, I don't want to talk with AI, you know. So a hundred percent. I I get what you're telling me. Now, I want you to picture this, okay? I'm that person that was 10 years reading your stuff, right? Your essays and your work and Substack, whatever you mentioned, your website. And um, I'm like, okay, I want to work with Cali, right? So let's talk about the mechanics behind the scenes for a moment. Walk me through how does that experience look like from my perspective as an onboarding client, right? How does your how do you structure your business?

Kelly Wendorf 23:02

So you've probably subscribed, right, through my website. And the first point of contact would be either OG style, where you pick up the phone and call my offices, and um, my assistant will handle everything, or you reach out by email, and there's a form that if you're interested in coaching, there's a form that just kind of is a little bit get to know you-ish kind of form. And there are a bit, so there's some layers, right? Because if that's already too hard for you, then maybe we're not a good fit, right? Maybe, so it's it's a way of filtering because I don't want to spend, I don't want to eat up my time with a lot of tire kicking. Um, and I don't want to eat up your time either. If I, you know, so there's sort of there's this little filtering system that's happening. So then I receive a copy of the questionnaire, and my assistant will set up and we will have a conversation because it is a big investment. So we'll have between a 30 and 50 minute phone call together and we'll we'll have a coaching conversation. I don't want to tell you about what coaching is like with me. I want to coach with you. So it's um it's very high touch, it's very hands-on, and we'll have that coaching conversation. And if at the end of that coaching conversation, it's really feeling like we have a wonderful synergy, then I'll write then and there tell you what the, you know, what the prices are, how I work. That is challenging. I can tell you that for me, that's the scariest thing, rather than to say, okay, I'll send you an email with a proposal to just say the prices right out there with my voice for whatever reason is scary. But it gives me an opportunity for that for you to then say, oh wow, okay, gee, that was a little bit more than I was expecting, or I'm not really sure about that. But then that can become another comp coaching conversation. I don't have to sell you on anything, it's just okay. I might ask a question like, um, well, what would need to happen so that you felt really you got every penny's worth? What would need to happen? And so we can deepen the conversation and start to pair investment with your return of investment. So usually by the end of the call, you're like, hell yes, let's go for it. And I don't know if that's answering your question completely.

Pedro Stein 25:34

It does. I love it, and I love the fact that you went into pricing, but we don't need to talk about hard numbers. It's like the struggle, the framing. And I see a lot of coaches doing um going through the same stuff. It's like, yeah, oh, the part of selling is always itchy, and we're like, oh my god, tactics, salesy, and all that. And I get that, okay, 100%. And I want to tap into your experience a little bit um about pricing specifically. And you mentioned that and back in the day, you kind of struggle with like it's a self-worth path, right, Kelly? You know, eventually you're like, Am I charging enough? I'm not charging right at the right, am I placing myself out of the market? So, how do you approach that now? That feeling, the price, you know? Well, and what did you had to learn the hard way to get where you are right now?

Kelly Wendorf 26:21

Yeah, so it's been iterative, that's the hard way, right? You know, and I mean, just like in fact, recently, even as gosh, I think it was last year. So I have a coach, and and you and I have talked about this. Like, coaches should have coaches. What are you doing not having a coach if you're a coach? Please. Anyway, I was on a hike with my coach, and he he then said to me, We weren't talking price, we were talking something else. But he's sort of the buy is like, and what are you charging? And I told him, and he goes, he stopped dead in his tracks, and he goes, Kelly, that's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. You are a world-class coach. What are you doing? So the and it, you know, my numbers were pretty good, but so I can say I've had many moments like that that have been the kind of little inflection points that have made me ratchet my prices up. I stay out of people's wallets. I absolutely do not, I have seen people who have next to nothing get a loan from their parents or whatever, or you know, they or sell the third car or whatever. I have seen people go, I'm gonna do this because it's really important to me. And so, in fact, people who have a lot of wealth or their companies have a lot of wealth tend to tend to make money an excuse and say it's too expensive. Rather than people who don't have any money at all or very little expendable income go, this is so worth it to me. I'm gonna do what I can. I'm gonna just do it. And they do, and because it's such a stretch for them, they get so much out of it, right? The more I charge, the more I show up, the more they show up, the better outcomes they get. This is absolutely, you know, A plus B equals C. It absolutely is true. Um, so I don't really think I stay out of people's wallets. I um I don't think about the market, and I'll tell you why I don't. Um people either are going to value themselves and invest in themselves or not. And just that they'll make it about time and money if they don't want to. And I remember a long, long time ago in my 20s when I had a writing school, it was my first business, and I was charging four times more than all the other trainers and writing teachers. And people were like, you're pricing yourself out of the market because everybody is charging X, Y, and Z. Well, I didn't price myself out of the market. I priced myself into my market, right? And my market were people who valued who I was, knew I brought something different than the rest, trusted me to get the job done. And and there were parts of the way I showed up as a professional that helped people believe in that. Things that didn't cost me money, things like, and I'm just going back to a rudimentary writing school, but things like showing up on time, returning calls within 12 hours, like just things, right? Having a nice email signature line, um, having signage outside of the barn, like all these simple things that didn't cost money, but signaled people's brains that they were with someone who had integrity. You know, I didn't show up all sloppy in my riding clothes. I had like, I was put together, you know, like all these signals. And so as a coach, you charge a lot. And what are the signals you're sending? You know, that help people go, oh yeah, I'm with I'm with like top top tier now, you know. And that doesn't have to cost money in terms of your own marketing strategy. That's just how you show up.

Pedro Stein 30:14

Yeah, a hundred percent. I appreciate you sharing that insight. And now let's talk about future a little bit. Okay. So are you thinking more about growth, you know, leverage, building a team, or refining what already works, you know, what feels most exciting right now?

Kelly Wendorf 30:32

So I am excited um about two things. So I have a lot of concerns about AI. I have so many, but we're not gonna go down that rabbit hole. Having said that, if I think about AI as a 32-year-old white boy from Marin County Tech Bro, um, and not like God, right? But just that, then how can I direct that to make my fabulous team more efficient? So that I'm excited about. So I've my team and I are challenging ourselves to become AI directors and learn ways that AI can make us be more human in the business. So let AI do the things that were kind of cogs in the system, create efficiencies, blah, blah, blah, standard operating procedures, guidebooks, whatever. So that my team can step into the human part, which is developing relationships, really, you know, being in touch with our clients, like that more human-centered stuff. So that's one thing I'm excited about. And I don't know the answer yet. I feel very much like a baby beginner in that space. So I'll let you know. And the other thing I'm very excited by is um I have been training, so I do uh a special uh training for people who want to uh pair their coaching practice with equine assisted coaching. Um, there are a lot of equine assisted coaching deals out there, but it's an unregulated industry. And so there are, it's just crazy the you know, the uh the the scope of quality of care that's out there. And so I want to uphold a super high standards on how we take care of our horses, how we facilitate the horse human coaching thing, and and and have that all facilitated by quality coaches. Um, and so every year I lead a small small cohort of um ACC and PCC level coaches to learn that art form. And so for the last seven years, I've been training those people, and I now have this wonderful cohort of coaches who are talented, and I want to scale my business to really give them uh time, you know, the space to work and push them forward to do coaching work, both with horses, but also virtually, because that's really where the you know it's a lower cost of sale to just be a coach on a phone or on Zoom than it is to have a whole herd of horses. Um, so I I want to scale and I'm at the baby beginnings of that too. And um I'm actually I look forward to engaging in your community to learn more about that, you know, and quality control, right? That's my biggest fear is quality to control. How can I make sure that these folks that I've hand selected and who I know are good coaches, how can I just make sure that that quality control um is consistent throughout you know the business? So that's it.

Pedro Stein 33:46

I love that, you know, and the reason I like that is because you had skin in the game, right? You you were uh kind of, oh, I'm not sure if I need a title, right? The ICF, the masters. And you're like, now considering, I'm not saying you're gonna build a certification around it, or you may or you may not. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, like, oh, I can see that I can help them in the journey if they want to use the equine assistant coaching, which I think that's uh chef's kiss. I really like that. It's like the full circle, you know, the full journey. So I really like that. That's very interesting. Now I feel like I had to tap into your experience a little bit, okay? If you don't mind me, you've been around the game long enough and to see trends come and go, right? 30 years in the business as a coach. So people give business advice non-stop, especially online. There's so much noise out there. So Kelly, what's something you hear repeated a lot that you think people misunderstand or overvalue?

Kelly Wendorf 34:45

Oh my gosh. Okay, I need to think about this. That is such a great question. Okay, okay, here it is. I love good questions, it just makes me so excited. Okay. So I hear um, oh, can I can I give you two things?

Pedro Stein 35:05

Absolutely.

Kelly Wendorf 35:06

Okay, two things. Um, the first is um there seems to be some kind of line between coaching and therapy. And I have heard so many coaches feel like they can't wade into so-called emotional waters or family history or whatever, because that's not coaching, that's therapy. And I don't understand, I just do not understand that the peas can't touch the carrots there because when a person comes to me, it's a whole person. And your past, your present, and your future are showing up in this moment. And for example, I have a client who is the head of a financial firm, a very successful financial firm. And he, you know, he's running into a real major glass ceiling to his success. He's done really, really, really well. And now there's this like place, he keeps bumping his head. And and I've been with him for a while now. And what we've uncovered is what does it stem from? It stems from way back when he was a little boy and was bullied. And if we don't wade into those waters, I'm not gonna serve him well to see how all that child, that bullied child, shows up in his board meetings, in his decisions he's making. Um, and how he his desire to be safe and a good boy, you know, that kind of thing is like just totally derailing his success. So we're going there. Now, I have um part of our faculty does have um therapists that can swoop in and help with trauma and that kind of thing. And I'm happy to pass that over. But oftentimes our clients don't want to see a therapist, and you're the only person they're gonna talk to about this. So, you know, that means I have to be able to have done my own inner work so I can be good company in that space. So that's one. And I think we serve our clients much more fully if we're willing to be brave and feel hard things with our clients. And the other thing is um, I constantly see people who are trained as a coach that they have to hurry up and get to the agreement in their conversation. Like, you know, in the first five minutes, you need to come up with your coaching agreement and what you're gonna be talking about with your client. Okay, so I think that we don't do our clients very well, we don't service them very well when that happens. Sometimes, if you're willing to get the agreement beneath the agreement and spend a good 20 minutes with that first part of the conversation, you end up with a less transactional coaching conversation and a much deeper, more successful coaching conversation. So if you came to me and said and I said, Okay, so where are we going to start? And you said, Well, I want to work with setting boundaries with my father-in-law, and might go, if I just said, right, let's get started, and we started there, I'd leave so much money on the table, so much collateral. So if instead I go, well, why is that important to you? And tell me how that plays out, and where else does that play out? And what happens when you get derailed, and where does that show up in your body, and blah, blah, blah. We might come up with something even deeper that is, I want to pay, I want to learn how to pay attention to the signals in my body that, you know, that sabotage me. Now we're gonna, you know, that is gonna create like an even more powerful conversation. So those are my two.

Pedro Stein 38:47

I love those. Yeah. I mean, you're getting me into a rabbit hole here just by taking out love.

Kelly Wendorf 38:55

Yay! We love rabbit holes.

Pedro Stein 38:59

Yeah, definitely. Well, I had I'm gonna tell you right real quick. I had a um a guest not a while ago, in like three to four weeks. She was a therapist, right? And she was telling me why she became a coach. It's the exact reason she wants to get her hands dirty. She was like, as a therapist, I can get only so far, you know. I cannot intervene, I cannot, you know, they need to come up with the with with the reasoning on their own, but not just that, she cannot give like explicit questions or following down a path. So she told me she was tired of it. That and and and she wanted to like get her hands dirty, you know, she wants to solve the problem, she wants to help them get there. And and you made me remind of her because you're telling me basically that there are coaches that are trying to separate people, like, oh, this is the work you, and this is the you I don't want to mix those, but then again, you coach the whole person, right?

Kelly Wendorf 39:59

Yes, the whole person is showing up in any moment. Good luck pretending like it doesn't, it does, right?

Pedro Stein 40:06

Yeah, exactly.

Kelly Wendorf 40:08

But it does require us as as coaches to like do our work so we can, you know, get a coach, get a therapist, have both if you can, like so that you can show up in those spaces.

Pedro Stein 40:20

But get involved, get involved, yeah, right? Even if it's to it to to say them, okay, this is not with me, but we're gonna solve it some way. We're gonna get a therapist therapist, we're gonna get something, but get involved. Don't, don't, don't play, play dumb, don't play that this is not with you, it's the whole person, it's melt in front of you. So yeah, it's vulnerability at the end of the day on both ends, you know. You feeling vulnerable, that you need to sometimes expose yourself as a coach, but also feeling like the coachy needs to do that, so it's a both a two-way street, right? Perfect. Now, yes, before we close this out, Callie. If someone resonated with what you shared and wants to follow your work, where should they go? And also, as a matter of fact, I know there's a gift out there. Did you want to throw it out there? So this is the moment. Let's hear it.

Kelly Wendorf 41:08

Yeah, thank you so much. So my website is equusinspired.com, eq u s inspired.com. And that's equus is Latin for horse. I have online courses and classes for folks who are all around the world and coaching, of course, and for any of you who are horse people and coaches, you know, check out our training program. And I do have a gift, and we have a um an online course called How to Lead a Transformative Life. It's coming up in the fall, and it's a it's a almost a $500 course. It's two consecutive Saturdays. Um, I'm putting everything in the chat here so you've got it, but I'd love to give you all a complimentary space in that class because uh it's a great thing for coaches to learn because it's a the blueprint of transformation and how there is an evolutionary process that nature sets up for us, and we are part of nature. So um there's the and if you enter the code EQIS uh K sorry Equus100 KW, you'll get a absolutely 100% off on that online course. And um let me just put that in the chat there. There we go.

Pedro Stein 42:24

Great, yeah, awesome. You know, there were a few things you shared today, and I gotta highlight them. You know, it's just my way of doing things, you know, that connecting uh coaching with meaningful experiences and not the other way around. It's like when I asked you about the horses, you're not like using the horses, you're like, I want to do alignment work and I have this opportunity, and the horses are already here. It's not like I'm gonna use horses to do coaching, it's different. It's that mentality is backwards, it's when you use a tool to do X, Y, and Z. No, it's the opposite. It's I love that. Okay. Also, I gotta highlight the going to the ICF, you know, get your masters. Not about the title, but embracing the journey, being open to it, you know, understanding that you don't really need the title, the certificate, but the journey itself will grow you into a better coach and embracing it's all like it's almost like humbling yourself, you know. When you're at a point, you were at a point that you're already pretty well established, right? And you're like, you know what? I'm going back to school. You're right, you know, and I I love that. I mean, we're we're always learning, Cali. Isn't that true?

Kelly Wendorf 43:41

True, yeah.

Pedro Stein 43:42

True, you know, and um I also like the fact that, and this is a powerful reminder, okay? The the person that was reading you for over 10 years, right? And got the courage to call you and say, Hey, Cali, you know what? I'm ready. Because we see a lot of coaches out there and they're How can I say this? They're like posting uh sometimes content out there, and the engagement is not really good because they're they're they're complaining they get they don't get enough likes, they don't get enough shares, comments, and so forth. But when we're talking about edge, you know, elbow deep uh people, people that are struggling, people that are in a tough position, it's not like they're gonna raise their hand and ride in the wide open and say, Hey Callie, my life's been a mess. Can you help me on a comment? No, they're they're watching in silence, you know. Yes, that's a powerful reminder that someone out there is looking. Okay, it may take a while, but it's looking. So, Callie, I really appreciate you taking the time and being open with this. You know, it was great having you on.

Kelly Wendorf 44:48

It's wonderful to be seen and gotten, Pedro. So thank you.

Davis Nguyen 44:52

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe to YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This conversation was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. To learn more about Purple Circle, our community, and how we can help you grow your business, visit joinpurplecircle.com.