Strategy, Leadership, and Career Acceleration with Alastair Wallace

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, our guest is Alastair Wallace, an accomplished leader and strategist who shares powerful insights on building high-impact careers, developing leadership presence, and navigating complex professional landscapes; drawing from his experience and thought leadership across platforms, Alastair breaks down practical strategies for accelerating career growth, making smarter decisions, and leading with clarity and confidence in today’s fast-changing world, offering valuable lessons for ambitious professionals ready to level up and stand out.

You can find him on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alastairwallace/
https://brainfooduk.com/

Transcript

Alastair Wallace 0:00

Who suggested to me says, you know, why are you not doing this for yourself? Why are you not going out there and helping people the way that you want to, rather than, you know, pushing up against the corporate methods of talent development within, you know, a large blue chip uh like KPMG. And that was probably the aha moment for me, I think, that that conversation with him.

Davis Nguyen 0:29

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scout their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro Stein 1:01

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro, and today's guest is Alistair Wallace, who has spent 25 years solving one of the biggest problems in business: managers who have never been properly trained to lead. After working his way up from first line supervisor to supervisor to managing 200 plus people, he's now trained over 23,000 managers and created the award-winning How to Lead Your Team Leadership System. His approach has earned him CEO magazine's CEO of the Year for Leadership Development in London for three consecutive years running. As a CMI and LPI fellow, Alistar helps organizations save at least five hours per week per manager while reducing escalation and creating consistent leadership behaviors. Welcome to the show, Alistar. It's great to have you.

Alastair Wallace 2:01

Thanks, Pedro. Really happy to be here today with you.

Pedro Stein 2:04

Yeah, I'm excited from the day we met. And you know, Alistar, I really, really want to go back to the origin story, you know, rewind a bit because every coach has that moment where they look at their life and they're, you know, I guess I'm a coach now. You know, this is what I'm doing now. So when was that for you?

Alastair Wallace 2:23

So, how far back do you want to go? I think the moment that I realized that, you know, I dropped out of university when I was 19 because I was desperate to get into work and start doing real stuff. And I kind of fell into a job, got promoted to be a manager, worked really hard, you know, moved organizations, you know, became a department manager in another business before relocating up to Scotland for a big project, a setup project there where I had to uh convert a brownfield site into a fully running operations center in under 12 weeks. And, you know, I mean everything from the furniture, the infrastructure, recruiting the people and training the people. And when I was there, I realized I kept seeing the same pattern everywhere. Capable people were being promoted into managers' jobs, but with no real training on how to lead other humans, no support. You know, if you look, you know, in the UK alone, 82% of managers never really get any guidance, support, training, or help on how to lead their teams. You know, we get people that are high performers as individual contributors, and they're promoted into leadership roles. And then we kind of act surprised when they avoid difficult conversations, they uh escalate people issues upwards and spend half their week chasing their tails and firefighting. But in many cases, they were never properly shown how to do the role in the first place. You know, I felt like I lived that role myself, and so learning by doing is is fantastic, but it also means a lot of painful mistakes that can be avoided. And I certainly fell into that trap when I first moved up to Scotland. I was managing through a big redundancy programme. I was really young myself at the time, so I was making people redundant that had been in their jobs longer than I'd been alive, and there was a lot of problems with communication, with unions, with motivation, and you know, all sorts of things. So that really pushed me into coaching and leadership development. I wanted to give people the tools that I wish I'd had at the beginning of my career. Um, I also got a bit frustrated uh with the training that I did have, it kind of sounded clever, but nothing really changed. So, my view about any kind of leadership development is pretty simple. You know, if it doesn't help you on Tuesday morning in a real meeting, a real conversation with real people, then it's not enough. And you know, I wanted to change that and deliver learning that works, you know, which is the strapline of my business.

Pedro Stein 5:35

Interesting. Okay. Dropped out of university at 19, then learned the hard way, you know. I love that. Now I want to understand there's always a shift that happens, right? So it's the moment you realize, okay, I'm helping people to I'm building a real business, a real practice around coaching, you know. So when did you realize that happened for you, you know?

Alastair Wallace 5:58

So I had been working in leadership development and coaching in-house for large organizations uh for quite a number of years. And I thought, you know, it's time that I went out there and rather than making money for other people, started making money for myself. What I was finding is I was developing leaders, but in a way that was dictated for me by large organizations, and so I was having a conversation with a colleague of mine. This is when I was at KPMG in their people and change division, uh, working in talent development there. And, you know, it was actually he who suggested to me, he says, you know, why are you not doing this for yourself? Why are you not going out there and helping people the way that you want to, rather than, you know, pushing up against the corporate methods uh of talent development within you know a large blue chip uh like KPMG? And that was probably the aha moment for me, I think, that that conversation with him. And you know, obviously there's a lot of fear attached, I think, from leaving a safe corporate, reasonably well-paid job to kind of going out and striking out on your own. But it's not a decision that I've I've ever regretted. You know, the the feeling of being able to help leaders in a way that I know works from my practical experience, you know, really transformed the rest of my career. And so that was back in 2009. Uh, so when I left and set up uh Brain Food then.

Pedro Stein 7:46

Okay, interesting. Now, after you got rolling, right? Who are the people that kept showing up? Because you mentioned leaders, right? But at the start, when you're building your your own practice, we all we see sometimes a lot coaches in the space that are trial and error, right? They're testing waters, trying to understand who exactly is their client profile. So, were you like that from the get-go, or did you test it? Just trying to understand if you were able to niche down, how would that look like from your point of view?

Alastair Wallace 8:15

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing that puts a lot of coaches off is where am I going to get my work from? Because all of a sudden, you know, you're solely responsible, not just for delivering coaching, delivering learning, and helping leaders, but you're also a sales and marketing person. You are the accountant, you are the CEO, you know, you are the general dog's body, the admin assistant. So lots of people who do the work that I do, lots of coaches that will be listening to this, are struggling trying to grab all of these roles at the same time, as well as maintain sufficient work to keep, you know, the uh mortgage paid and all the other things that that we've got to do. So when I first started, I was quite fortunate that a lot of my initial work came through reputation and referrals. So people that had worked for me in the past and gone on to other jobs, uh people that I had worked for in the past, long-term relationships, social relationships. So I certainly drew on my friends and contacts uh networks. I can't underestimate the importance of having a really good network and also not being afraid to tell people that that's what you're doing now, and and you know, seeing if they need um any help because finding clients is always going to be a big challenge, I think, in in uh a small business.

Pedro Stein 9:50

Okay, so the leaders, right? Like pretending, let's pretend I'm one of them. I'm your ICP, okay? Because I want to talk about marketing, and you you kind of browse through it, you mentioned networking, but how would I be able to find you? You know, I'm I'm your ICP, I'm trying to find Elistair or Brainford Limited. How would that work?

Alastair Wallace 10:10

Okay, so I do lots of marketing on LinkedIn and other social channels. Do you know what though, Pedro? It's been a real trial by fire, I think, social media, because I'm not trained in sales and marketing at all. And for the first few years, when I was running Brain Food, I was lucky that a lot of my work came through reputation and referrals and people I already knew knew. So when you have to suddenly become a marketeer and a salesperson, it's a bit of a brutal, brutal um awakening. Um, so people find me predominantly on LinkedIn and on Instagram, also things like this speaking and social um engagements as well. And you know, I think people respond because I talk more about the real pain, not a polished kind of fantasy version of management. You know, senior leaders are fed up with escalations and inconsistency and poor judgment, those sort of nasty, preventable HR dramas. And so naming those problems properly, you know, in whether it's in social content or conversations, people start to pay attention because they they feel seen. So LinkedIn and Instagram are probably the biggest channels for me. But you know, I'm starting to explore other ones as well. I'm just gonna start looking at uh paid ads as well to launch my how to lead your team program, get some more people uh registered for that. So that's an experiment I'm gonna try next.

Pedro Stein 11:53

Interesting. Okay, now let's pretend again that I'm your senior leader, your ICP. I'm like watching your posts, looking at your content through LinkedIn, Instagram, Instagram that you mentioned, or even a speaking gig, right? And a speaking opportunity. And I'm liking what I'm seeing, okay? And I reach out to you. So every coach builds their own coaching business a little bit differently, you know. So when someone actually becomes a client, let's pretend me, what does that experience look like right now?

Alastair Wallace 12:23

The first thing, and the absolute priority for me is not trying to sell somebody something. I mean, I don't know about you and your your listeners, but I think most people hate being sold to uh straight away. And there's so much of that on LinkedIn, and there's so much of that on all the social channels, other social channels uh as well. So I find that sales approach just doesn't sit very well with me. So the priority for me, really, Pedro, is to get to know the potential client, find out what's going on in their business, uh, talk to them about the pain that they're experiencing before I try and think about solutions, you know, because it's a little bit like when you've got a hammer, every problem looks like a nail, right? And the the good thing about the work that I do, so I offer leadership coaching. So I've just been working with a senior leader uh for international business in telecoms, who's got an important conference coming up this week. So we've been doing work on his presentation for a big important customer conference there, one-to-one. But I also offer group programs and digital programs, custom programs that can be linked to organizations' competence frameworks or particular projects. So I don't just try and sell them as soon as I get in touch. I want to find out what's going on in the business, you know, what's your schedule like, what's important to you, and then we can start thinking about solutions rather than having a solution-led approach. And I think people like that flexibility that, you know, I'm not trying to just sell you one thing, I'm not trying to convince you that I am the right coach for you because it might not be the approach that you're looking for straight away.

Pedro Stein 14:32

I like the integrity of it, you know, you're not trying to push your services or trying to understand their point of view and see if there's alignment in it. Okay. Yeah.

Alastair Wallace 14:40

Um I mean, one of the one of the clients that I worked with um a while ago was a high-end furniture and chandelier design company, and so they do installations for five-star hotels, lots of celebrity clients and that kind of thing. And I was helping them out with some recruitment. I was coaching some of their senior leaders and also looking at helping uh their sales team. And through one of the conversations with their CEO, it came up that they were struggling uh with walk-ins. They said, you know, nobody ever comes in to the studio. You know, we don't get anyone walking in. And so rather than, you know, just ignoring that, I said, Well, let's find out why. So I just jumped out of my chair, ran out into the street, and just started interviewing people in the street and said, You know, what do you think this business is here? And people didn't know because they had no signage on the front of the store. People thought it was an internet agency. Um, and so having that kind of flexibility and curiosity of thought, I think, is really useful for coaches and consultants, you know, being able to help clients with the problem that's pressing. So all that needed really was some lettering in the corner of their window, not ruining their beautiful display, but just letting people know what is this business, and you know, walk-ins are welcome. So a very small change, you know, delivered a massive increase in the number of walk-ins, and obviously that you know translates into sales as well.

Pedro Stein 16:22

Oh, that is so funny.

Alastair Wallace 16:23

Curiosity, I think, is a great skill if you're going to be a coach in terms of the questions that you ask and you know, flexibility in your approach, too.

Pedro Stein 16:33

That is so funny, and also because you're not biased, right? You're not into their own noise, like they're they didn't, they don't even consider that. It's like outside the box mentality. That's why it works, because you're looking from a neutral perspective, and you're like, okay, I'm gonna try something simple here, and it kind of lands. So I think that is so hilarious. I think that's funny, and and that's actually that's actually you know what coaching does, right? It's because it's looking from a perspective, a neutral perspective, and and it can see and cut through the bullshit, the noise, and and trying to understand the core reason for something, not trying to assume why X, Y, and Z it's not happening, right?

Alastair Wallace 17:14

Yeah, for sure. Uh, when we were looking at recruitment in the same company, and you know, generally, I think recruitment and interviewing in particular is another one of those really critical skills that people just aren't taught. You know, there is a way to do it. There are things you can ask about and things you can't ask about, and it's surprising, horrifying, in fact, how many leaders I've come into contact with that have no clue about legally what they should and shouldn't be asking. You know, asking questions, you know, are you planning to have children or have you got any children? You know, you believe in Galaxy, yeah, exactly. Whilst it might seem really innocent and conversational, you've got to be really careful about you know your legal position uh in terms of discrimination for those sorts of things. So, you know, I like to spot those sorts of opportunities as well when I'm talking to people, and it can just be something very a quick casual uh piece of feedback that I'm offering them, or identifying actually, there is a stronger need here to make sure that your managers are prepared for interviews. We need to do some coaching around interview technique and preparation uh for interview and how you're making decisions because you make a bad decision with recruitment and you're stuck with that person for a considerable length of time, or if not, it's a painful process trying to get them out of the business, and it's really disruptive to the rest of the team as well. So I'm thinking that's going to be one of my new digital projects is setting up some kind of digital learning around how to recruit a bit more smartly and the damage that you can do if you do make a poor decision.

Pedro Stein 19:07

Okay, so we're talking about one-on-one, one-on-one, uh digital component, right? Uh uh, some courses and all of that that you mentioned. I mean, your work seems pretty hands-on, right? So, my question to you is how do you think about capacity so you don't stretch yourself too thin?

Alastair Wallace 19:25

Yeah, so that's a really good, that's a really good question. And it's something I've been thinking about a lot uh over the last year. Because obviously, if I'm face to face uh with clients, and so I was with coaching a client yesterday, um, as I said, for for an upcoming large event, very important, excuse me, large scale, lots of customers going to be there. So, really important that he comes across with impact, um, a panel discussion to facilitate as well with some quite difficult uh guests. So, we did our second two-hour coaching session um around that. But obviously, if I'm face to face with clients, I can't be doing anything else, and there's only one of me. So, I have a couple of projects running um around the world. So I use associates rather than traveling. Um, so I had some work um in Asia, so I use one of my colleagues over in that part of the world, and also um for a big cruise company. Uh, we've got a project running over there in Ecuador uh at the moment. So I've got one of my colleagues, an associate uh for Brain Food, uh who's flying in from Brazil rather than me flying all the way uh to Ecuador, uh, who's going to be delivering that. So I I use associates um when it's not practical for me to get there. Depends on the location, though. I mean, if it's somewhere sexy, then I might go myself. But um, you know, all that time in the air is dead time, it's non-fee earning time. So, you know, it does it can take up a considerable amount of time if you're spending a lot of time on travel. So the next big challenge I'm trying to solve in my business right now is scaling, you know, lead generation and sales, and really kind of promoting my digital program. You know, I spent probably the best part of a year consolidating, crystallizing, analyzing all the stuff that I've learned over the last 25 years, you know, through practical leadership experience, my interest in neuroscience, in human psychology, uh, in how learning is transferred effectively at work, and thought how can I create the best program uh for leaders that has all the things that they really need, and none of the rubbish, none of the Kind of BS, you know, how can I give them a modular program that fits in with a biddy busy leadership role that still incorporates coaching uh with me and has practical, measurable application uh built into that? So the challenge for any leaders or managers is usually being released from uh your day job to learn and then making sure that you apply the learning. So I spent a lot of time and effort thinking about how I can solve that problem, how can I give them a program that can be done at your own time, in your own pace, still includes some FaceTime, some coaching, and has you know guaranteed return on investment because that's really the the ultimate goal in any leadership development is how do you measure return on investment? Um, and so typically uh the clients that have been on my digital program, How to Lead Your Team, have reported return on investment between £5,000 and £12,000. So, you know, that's well in excess of the 200% return and investment guarantee in one case uh in the NHS, actually in the UK. So I'm working with a group of managers uh over in Oxford, and one of the participants on um the How to Lead Your Team program this year identified a £787,000 annual impact change from directly from learning in the program that he can deploy, and so that was just you know incredible. So that's the thing that really drives me is you know, how do you make this scalable for people? And how do you make sure that they can prove results to the people that matter? Because results really are what matters with coaching and with learning, you know, how is it making a difference? That's the thing that's really important for me.

Pedro Stein 24:12

Interesting. You jumped a gun. I usually ask about what future bring will bring, right? I usually ask now at this moment, like what does what does scaling look like, what growth means, you know, means to you. And you jumped on that, but I want to dive into that real quick because I want to understand that I I already got the right picture, right? You're you're pushing that program and all that. I want to understand the vision, right? What would be like the big dream a year from now? Like it would say, Hey, I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z. I want to impact this amount of people by doing this. You know, I don't I would really want to understand what success looks like for you for that program because it sounds exciting, you know.

Alastair Wallace 24:54

Sure. I mean, the biggest challenge for me, I think, is scaling lead generation and sales without becoming you know bland and noisy and salesy or overly automated either. Because I think there is a heavy reliance on automation now for lead generation and sales. Some of it's really good, and I get that you know, AI and automation is reducing the amount of human effort that's that's required. You know, I know that my work gets results. The challenge is making sure more of the right buyers and managers understand that quickly. So, ideally, in the future, what I would like is stable, scalable lead generation and sales so that you know within 12 months, it is not just me that is doing the coaching interactions for how to lead your team, but I'm using people within my network to help with that as well. Because currently, you know, the workload is manageable just for me. But what I'd like to be doing ideally is having you know a stable input of people joining the program to the point where I'm outsourcing the coaching elements uh to other people uh within my network. So ideally, I'd like to look at 10 uh new people joining the program um every month in the next 12 months, you know, and then doubling that um the year after.

Pedro Stein 26:38

Okay, I love it, especially with uh partnerships, right? Thinking about impacting more people, thinking about somewhat of a ripple effect, you know, so you can actually help more. I think at the end of the day, that money and revenue are awesome and great, but at means to an end, right? If you if you have the right intention, you're not gonna be salesy, you're not gonna be, you know, trying to push something. You you know you have something good and you want to help people. It is that simple, at least in my book, you know, and it sounds like that's in your book too. Now, I want to move to some advice giving, okay? I would love some advice because you've been you've been a little in the game long enough, right? We were talking about 25 years then, and uh with social media today, I mean everyone's got an opinion, right? Good or bad. So, what's one piece of business advice you hear all the time that you think that's overrated or misunderstood?

Alastair Wallace 27:33

Hmm, let me have a think about that. That you need to post every day on social media. I don't think you I think people take that to heart, Pedro, and then they just post anything. And you know, you shouldn't really be chasing views and likes on social media because that's not necessarily going to be your ideal clients, and it's not going to be people that are going to um need the product or service that you've got. So posting every day or posting dramatic or unusual content just to get likes, shares, follows is not necessarily the right way to go. You should really be thinking about, you know, how am I appealing to my ideal client? You know, am I leading with the universal pain, you know, managers being promoted without training, senior leaders clean clearing up the fallout, you know, am I backing it with proof? You can still be human on social media, but I don't think it's necessary to post every day just for the sake of posting every day. And I think a lot of people talk about doing that, and it means there's a lot of garbage on there, or you're getting a lot of distractions, likes, and uh pointless follows from people that are never really going to buy your product or be interested in the the service that you're offering.

Pedro Stein 29:07

Not to mention the content, right? Sometimes it's a lot of AI slot. You're like, uh, chat GPT again. I know that type of tax, you know. I mean, that if you have because if you have to post every day, man, imagine the creativity, there's a limit to it, right? It's like, cool, how how are you going to do that? I mean, in a human possible way to not sound repetitive. Oh, that guy again that's gonna say that tell me that there is this X, Y, and Z pain, but in a different way, really. Okay, yeah, I know I get that. Now, on the other side, what's a piece of advice you wish more people actually took seriously?

Alastair Wallace 29:46

So, the piece of advice that I would always encourage people to think about when they're thinking about coaching, about learning and development, it should be learning that works. What is the value that's being delivered? How are you going to measure it? Because coaching can just be feel-good, and I think there are, you know, as you all know, the the internet social media is awash with people calling themselves coaches now, and so I think if you are going to undertake any kind of coaching, learning, development initiative, you need to be really clear what the outcomes um are going to be. And so, you know, I always talk about outcomes, you know, rather than focusing on making people feel good, if you like. You know, it's you need competence plus warmth, I think is the most important thing, but it needs to be a tangible outcome for people and something that you're prepared to stand by as well. You know, I say to anyone that's interested in my uh digital program, my leadership program, how to lead your team, I'm guaranteeing you 200% return on investment. Otherwise, I'll give you your money back, you know, and because I am prepared to stand by that. I I will work with you and help you get to that point where you are able to demonstrate the value for yourself. You know, it's not just about watching videos and having a conversation with me, it's about real work, you know. And I'm I push people quite hard on that because I think that it's important. I think learning without application is a waste of time. You know, you use it or you lose it.

Pedro Stein 31:54

And let me ask you this, because I feel like you have a you know, um pretty extended uh experience in the coaching space, and you have clients in different parts of the world. So, what I'm thinking right now is like to dive into a little bit of your background and the culture differences between your clients, right? From, for example, from continents to continents, or even uh we're talking about countries, right? Um, do you see like a major difference sometimes, even uh, for the onboarding session, or for them to understand what coaching really is, and how did that play out for in your opinion?

Alastair Wallace 32:34

To a certain extent, I think yes. I also believe that you've got to be a bit careful about stereotyping people uh as well. So, an interesting example. I was working uh with a group in Morocco last month. Yeah, Morocco, wonderful country, the friendliest people ever. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I even had time for a camel ride uh before I started working with a team um over there. It's on my LinkedIn if you want to see it, the picture. And it was a mixed group of leaders, so there were people there from Germany, and lots of people say, Oh, you know, working with Germans, they're very rigid and they're very strict, and they're always on time, and everything's very disciplined. And that just wasn't my experience at all with these particular uh people. Uh, I was also coaching uh a German CEO last year from a cruise company. Again, the total opposite of what you would expect from that kind of traditional German image, very affable, very friendly, quite kind of flamboyant, um, but really uh warm in his in his leadership style, almost to a fault, I would say. And that's one of the things that we worked on was a professional distance as he'd been promoted. He was still one of the boys, I think, rather than kind of just learning when it's appropriate just to step back and step away a little bit. So I think in one-to-one coaching sessions, I mean, I use psychometrics a fair bit, and so psychometric profiles give you some really good data to help you understand somebody and what their behavioral preferences and communication preferences uh are likely to be. Uh, and I've worked quite a lot in Asia. The group programs in Asia do tend to be a bit different. I think people are often a bit more reserved in a group environment and less willing to challenge or be challenged in a group environment. But often when you have people one-to-one, it's slightly different. You know, people tend to relax a little bit more as well. So I think it's more often the group dynamic that creates behavioral changes in people and social guards rather than when you're working with people one-to-one. I think if you've established a relationship with somebody and you know you are focused on helping them, those those guards start to to drop down a bit. So you don't notice it so much one-to-one culturally, um, more in a group uh coaching environment for sure.

Pedro Stein 35:35

I love that. I'm glad I asked. That's very interesting, especially the the the the you're going with uh you know an open mindset and just trying to get to know that person without the stereotype, and also how they might behave differently in a group section, because that makes sense, right? The usually culture is based on social groups and how they have they manage themselves, and they sometimes they act differently, but on the one-on-one level seems like it. It's more like each do their own, right? If that makes any sense. And Alistair, if someone listening wants to connect with you or follow your work, where can people find you and connect with you?

Alastair Wallace 36:15

Okay, the best place is probably LinkedIn. So Alistair Wallace on LinkedIn. Alternatively, you can look on my website, which is brainfooduk.com.

Pedro Stein 36:28

Okay. You know, there were a thing, a few things that you shared today that really stood out to me. You know, I would say the 82% managers uh that never got any guidance on how to lead a team, that's astonishing, right? That's an interesting, yeah, that's an interesting piece of information, especially in the UK, right? So that's that's a very powerful reminder. And because you always have that technician that sometimes is very good at what he does, and eventually he gets promoted, and that's a different skill set we're talking about. So the guy struggles or gal struggles, right? So that makes perfect sense. Now, I also love the fact that you're trying to serve Alistair from the past, right? With the tools you mentioned, you wish you had, right? So I think that's a very intentional and very interesting way to put and how to serve people, right? Thinking about the own hard the your own hardships and and what you've had to been through, and that you you want to save people from the pitfalls, you know, the the mistakes. So that's an interesting point. And uh the trial by fire on social media, you know, I love that because that's the growth mindset. It's like I haven't figured out everything yet. I'm still working on it. Like, it's just part of who you are, and and just keep moving forward, trying to understand. And there's always a new challenge, right? On a side note, the sales approach that you're kind of icky about it and the salesy and the tactics, that you don't sit down with you. I mean, I can get that 100%. I was a high-ticket sales closer for uh a business coach, and I always feel like people frame it in the wrong way. Instead of trying to serve people, which is the the job of a salesperson, is to serve. If you cannot help them, you need to point them into the right direction, you know, even if it's a resource or a furl, someone who might help, instead of trying to push someone into a funnel, and that will, you know, eventually turn into a client from hell, or you're because they the A, they didn't need it, or B, uh it's not aligned, you know. So that's very interesting that you mentioned. And I think it's about the framing at the end of the day. It's like coming with the true intention of helping people instead of trying to close them. I I the always be closing the ABC. I I oppose that, I would say it out loud. Okay. I also like the the reminder you gave about the raw data on likes and views, right? That won't convert into clients and social media because that's at the end of the day, followers or whatever are just raw metrics, you know, they're not the conversion metrics, they're not the people who actually reached out to you. So you could have like a hundred K plus followers or one K plus and have better conversion metrics on 1K because that's actually your ICP, you know, if that makes any sense. So, Alistair, this is my long way of saying I appreciate what you do. Appreciate you being here and sharing so openly today. Okay, it was great having you on.

Alastair Wallace 39:29

Thank you very much. Really great to be here. And you know, if people are listening and thinking that sounds exactly like the managers in my business, you know, head on over to brainfooduk.com, have a look at how to lead your team, get in touch. I'm happy to have a chat. I promise you it won't be salesy. Um, you know, I love talking to new people, working with new businesses. So, yes, thanks very much, Pedro. Appreciate it.

Davis Nguyen 39:53

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe to YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This conversation was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. To learn more about Purple Circle, our community, and how we can help you grow your business, visit joinpurplecircle.com.