Unlocking Career Success Expert Coaching Insights with Debbie Plager

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, our guest is Debbie Plager, a renowned career coach and expert in personal and professional development. Debbie shares invaluable insights into career growth, overcoming obstacles, and unlocking your true potential. With years of experience in helping individuals succeed, she offers practical advice and strategies that can help you navigate your career journey.

You can find her on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dsplager/
https://theplagergroup.com/

Transcript

Debbie Plager 0:00

You meet that person and you're like, Oh, wow, I want to be them when I grow up. Never mind that I was already in my 30s, already had another degree, and already like like was like, wow. And I just watched her and I was like, You're amazing. How do you know what questions to ask? How do you just how are you so calm and so curious? And you don't feel this angst. I always felt this angst. And I found out later she was a coach. And so it was just this moment in this like aha in my brain. And then there was another person I was working with. And she had that same calmness. And she didn't feel this level of angst as a consultant. And I said, what is it? And she turned out she was a coach. So I was like, what is going on here? That these amazing practitioners were also coaches.

Davis Nguyen 0:49

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, go discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro Stein 1:20

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro, and today's guest is Dabby Plagger, a coach who believes that sustainable business results don't come from strategy alone, but from people-centric approaches that actually stick. As an organizational strategist and coach with ICF and MCC accreditation, she helps individuals and teams achieve their business, leadership, and personal goals. Whether working with executives or entire leadership teams, Dabby delivers a lasting behavior change and increased well-being through her collaborative approach. Her clients experience deeper professional satisfaction while she guides them through organizational development, talent strategy, and change management. Please welcome Dabby Plager.

Debbie Plager 2:16

I'm so excited to be here with you and to just have this conversation. So thanks for welcoming me on the show.

Pedro Stein 2:24

It's great to have you, you know, and I like to rewind a bit, go back to the origin story because every coach has that moment where they look at the life and say, Yeah, I guess this is what I'm doing now, right? So when was that for you, Debbie?

Debbie Plager 2:39

Oh, you know, it's interesting. So I um was, and I guess for a long time have been in the org development space. So I've always been interested in that intersection of strategy and people, that messy space. And I was working with a lot of practitioners, and there was this one woman, Leslie. And you know, when you meet that woman, you meet that person and you're like, oh, wow, I want to be them when I grow up. Never mind that I was already in my 30s, already had another degree, and already like, like, was like, wow. And I just watched her and I was like, You're amazing. How do you know what questions to ask? How do you just how are you so calm and so curious? And you don't feel this angst. I always felt this angst. And I found out later she was a coach. And so it was just this moment in this like aha in my brain. And then there was another person I was working with, and she had that same calmness, and she didn't feel this level of angst as a consultant. And I said, What is it? And she turned out she was a coach. So I was like, what is going on here? That these amazing practitioners were also coaches. And so I was finally like, all right, Deb, figure it out. And so that was my aha moment, Pedro, realizing that these great practitioners in this space that I loved were the ones that knew the right questions that were, by the way, no surprise to your listeners, simple questions. Didn't need to be the smart ones in the room, didn't need to know more than their clients, just needed to hold space. We're coaches. And I didn't know about coaching. I was the daughter two mathematicians. The whole business world was still pretty new to me, but I didn't know about coaching. And so it led me on this whole journey of trying to figure that out. And so once that world opened up to me, that was the beginning of a beautiful journey for which I'm forever grateful.

Pedro Stein 4:44

I love that. Like you're looking at someone and you're wondering, what's the secret sauce, right? She cracked the cool, what's up with that? She's looks so so I mean, the way they walk, the way they see stuff. I've been around people like that. I love that story. Now, Debbie, when did it shift? You know, from I'm helping people in the coaching space to I'm building a real business around this, you know, because there is a lot of trial and error in the first days of coaching. You're like trying to test the waters, see if this is really gonna land. So I went to understand the shift, you know. Oh, I might have a coach practice, you know.

Debbie Plager 5:26

Yes. And I would say I was very fortunate in that I had a really successful internal corporate career for a long time, right? So as an OD practitioner and I was a talent nerd, and so I had that whole space, and I actually grew coaching practices for companies, whether they were startups, large Fortune 50, 250, PE heldback firms, etc. And I was coaching on the side, right? And then um, I'm in Chicago now. I'm a Chicago native. For a while we lived in Maine. And so for your global audience who might not know where Maine is, it's like the northeast part of the US. It's actually where the sunrise first hits the US. So it's like you go where Boston is and you go north and you go east. It's just it's out there. Maine is a small state, population-wise. I promise I'm getting to your answer. And um from an economy perspective, we just talk about everyone's got a side hustle, right? So I was doing my corporate job, but I also was coaching on the side. And I was doing more of it there, and I think I realized at that point, I think I at some point want to do this full time. So I was doing more and more of it. And at some point we realized Maine was not our forever home the way we thought it was, and we moved back to Chicago. And so I knew at some point this is what I'm meant to do. And I had that voice that I was listening to. So I would say, trust that voice, folks, when you know. And it was just a matter of when. And in the meantime, I was still loving my corporate career, but I was continuing to coach on the side. Um, and so I knew it's just a matter of when what was right for my family, what was right for me, um, for me to go out on my own and say, yes, I can do this. I have value to add. I know what type of coaching I want to do, and the time is now. So for me, I gave notice in 22. I ratcheted down at that point. I was chief talent officer, I ratcheted down my my corporate role. I was slowly gonna grow my business. And then 23, I consider April 8th my launch of my business because my last paycheck, which was very small, was April 7th. So April 8th, I consider the launch of my business in 23.

Pedro Stein 7:56

Okay. Correct me here if I'm wrong, but Maine is the homeland of Stephen King, right? And I love Stephen King. Okay. So just point out there the fact that, yeah, I am very familiar with Maine. All the stories are faced in Maine. Okay. Now, after you got rolling, right? 2022, 2023, who are the people that kept showing up? You know, the ones you realize, okay, these are my people. Because at in the early days, especially in coaching, uh, we see out there a lot of coaches that are trying to help everyone, right? And there's nothing wrong to it. But I went to understand if you ended up niching down and how that played out for you.

Debbie Plager 8:37

Oh, that's such a great question. And it's so funny because, like, right, I went through a coaching program and everyone's like, niche down, niche down, niche down. And I was like, why do I have to niche down? And I don't think I realized it because I was still in the corporate. And I was like, I can coach anybody. And it wasn't until I actually was running my own business and I was like, now I get why you have to niche down, because you have to cut through the noise and you have to be really clear about who you're going after. So I did eventually niche down. Um, so in terms of your first question about who was showing up and who was like there for me, I was also, again, I think very fortunate in that my last company where I was chief talent officer, I had great relationships. And so what I would say is again, um, in some ways my story might be a bit unique, but my guess is a lot of you that are coming from corporate and moving to the solopreneur and the small business world, it's not like you know, we're we're maintaining good relationships. And I had them as good clients. Um, they are still good clients. They know me, I know them. Um, and so that was helpful. And I think prior corporate relationships were good, um, our good clients. Uh, I know that world, right? So for me, I am B, you know, I am I am servicing the corporate world. So I am B2B, right? Um, I am really focused on executives and I'm looking, you know, I kind of look at a certain level of executive. So that for me is helpful. I think it's helpful because I understood succession and I understood what were some of the challenges. Um, I also worked a lot in technical roles for people that were really great technically, but maybe weren't so great leading people and really setting vision. And how do you go from like, okay, you can only tap so high being technical, but if you want to be the senior leader, you have to, you have to really lead people and you have to let your ego go. And it's how about how are you bringing people along and how are you bringing teams along? And it's not your intelligence, it's your emotional intelligence, and how do you create space and more oxygen in the room and all of that? Um, and so I built skills in doing that, and I love working with people like that. And I think partly it's, you know, sometimes I say it's in my DNA, you know, like I have two mathematicians for teachers or for parents, and my brother has a postdoc in physics. And I'm like, I I have like I stopped at calculus, like I like being around smart people doesn't scare me, you know. But I'm like, okay, but hey, but do you know how to connect with people? You know, and so that's really worked for me. So, in terms of you know, going with what felt comfortable, I would say go with that and go with where you have energy and where you feel like you can make a difference. And so for me, I felt like that was where that was where my niche was. Um, so I hope that answers your question. But I probably like a lot of coaches, just want to continue to just tell the story.

Pedro Stein 11:48

So it does. Okay. So prior corporate uh relationships, corporate world, we're talking about B2B as an executive. So how do those people usually find you? You know, uh, since we're talking about like a little bit about marketing, just for trying to understand.

Debbie Plager 12:06

Yeah. And I think it's knowing your space. So having been on the other side of that desk, right? So how I looked at how was I trying to source coaches before companies of a certain size had people in my, you know, what role I was in and achieved talent role. So it was, you know, did you have someone in a talent role or a learning role or the the head of HR? So trying to understand how they were structured. Um, so there's always someone in human resources. Uh, so it's trying to under at least that. And it's just building those networks and understanding, you know, those associations and where are they connected. And it's, you know, just leveraging my networks and saying, okay, who do you know and who are you talking to? And people who know me, who trust me and know my work at the first and foremost, right? So I've done coaching for them. They've seen me make a difference in people, and they can talk to that. It's not just, hey, I like Debbie. It's she's helped leaders in my organization. She has helped teams in my organization, she has helped move business along in my organization. I trust her. I trust that, and I can put my social capital on the line. Those are the, you know, it's like you just need a few of those, right? So, how are they willing to have those conversations with their peers? And how are you, as a business owner, saying, Who do you know? Who are two people that you're willing to introduce me to to have that conversation?

Pedro Stein 13:37

Interesting. Now, let's talk business for a second, okay? So people find you, Debbie, the play group, right? And the playground group, sorry, and they resonate with your work, okay? And eventually they want to work know what working with you actually looks like. Yeah. Like through your network or whatever, I mean your digital presence, something like that. So, because everyone builds their coaching business a bit differently, right? So when someone actually becomes a client, what does that experience look like right now? It's structure-wise.

Debbie Plager 14:08

You know, and it's really interesting, Pedro, because I'm um, I think we talked about this a little bit. I am trying to scale. So we're in such a fascinating time. Like we're like the S-curve part of my business. So it could be one of two things. So if they're coaching, if they're with me, right? I've got different packages in terms, like I think every coach. Um, I so if it's if it's with me, I'm trying to understand what it is that has brought them to coaching, right? So what's the need? Is it something that this new role and and it's just you know, do we think it's gonna be a four-month experience, a six-month experience? Is it something that's really significant that we think is gonna be longer? I oftentimes will have that question from HR, like what's what's typical? And I say, honestly, what's most typical in the corporate experience at the executive level is a six-month package. I to this day don't even understand where that came from. It's just it's typical. Like, I mean, I think it's been around for 30 years. It's been around since at least the mid 90s. Actually, that's more than 30, right? So I say we can always start there. And if we find that, first of all, like let's start there if you think, but I always want to know is the person coachable? Do they have enough awareness? Are they bought in? Because the last thing I want to do is waste their time, waste your money, etc. So I want to have a little bit of a chemistry connect, make sure that we're the right fit. Because I feel like I'm doing the right thing for the company, is you want someone, right, who the right fit is someone where you can be both vulnerable and be pushed and feel safe, right? So I can be open, I can be safe, and I know I'm gonna get that little, come on, you could do it. You can stretch, you can stretch. I believe in you, you can stretch, but I'm not gonna be passive and let you just sit there. Like you want to be different in six months. You want to try things, you want to experiment, right? So as long as we feel like we can work together, then we're gonna set things up. All right. And I've got my own methodology, every coach has their own methodology, right? So they'll we'll do that. We'll have our our, you know, I have my package, we have to check-in points with the manager, with HR, et cetera. We have development plans that's really important to me. I think the way that most coaches do, right? And it's it's that client is building that development plan. So I say, hey, this is what you're working on now in 2026. My goal is I want you to build this skill so that like in 2027 when Debbie's not here, you're like, hey, what is important to me work on now? Or 2030, when you're in a new role and Debbie's not here. I can look on my what I call it, my metaphorical feedback shelf. And what's important to me? I can pull this theme down and this theme down, and I know how to work on it.

unknown 16:59

Right.

Debbie Plager 16:59

Because I've taught you how to fish, you're not dependent on me. Right. So that's part of that sustainability piece that you mentioned in in the intro that's really important to me.

unknown 17:10

Right.

Debbie Plager 17:11

That when you work with the Plaguer group, you don't just get good at the one thing now, you're also learning how to do this over time, right? So that's in working with me. And then when we're checking in and then and we're developing the development plan, and then let's say we close out at six months and there's enough progress, and then we feel good. Sometimes we want to extend, sometimes we move into maintenance. It all depends, right? It's very individual. Now I mentioned I'm scaling, right? So part of what I'm doing is bringing on additional executive coaches in the one-on-one space. Because, as you mentioned in the intro, teams, that's a real passion of mine. It brings my org dev and my coaching together. And so I'm freeing up my capacity from the one-on-one space to do more with teams. And so there are tremendous coaches that I know through my work and faculty being part of Northwestern and just my life and my work. So I'm bringing on our one-on-one coaches to work with my clients and service them to save my capacity more for the teams. So, same process, right? Let me understand what you're working on, let me understand about their what they're looking for in a coach. Let's do the chemistry process. And it won't be with me. But I can get you someone who thinks and has approaches and unders, you know, thinks about brain science and will be that same space of vulnerability and stretch.

Pedro Stein 18:41

Okay. So, first of all, I like the I would call it, and you can correct me here if I'm wrong. Okay. It's almost like a university engagement level. It's like I'm teaching you how to fish, I'm giving you these tools so you can know where to go in case you need. It's like a panic button, right? So I I really like that, the frame, uh, and and how how you care about the future, right? It's not just about pushing through a process, it's like really transformational change so people can, you know, hone in whatever they need to go to. I love that. Okay. Second thing is you kind of mentioned, right? Because your work seems pretty hands-on. And we're talking about capacity. You mentioned that. So how scaling season also, how do you think about capacity? So you don't stretch yourself too thin. Because that's something that we see a lot in the coaching space, is that they're wearing all the hats, right?

Debbie Plager 19:37

Oh, yeah. Oh my goodness. I if someone could tell me how to figure that out, like right. It's like right. And and to and to be fair, right? I have some wonderful mentors that are sort of like being business coaches for me and helping me think through that, right? So I'm thinking through what is my capacity? How many clients can I take on? What does the work look like? Right. Because team coaching has a very different rhythm than one-on-one coaching. So I'm thinking through, okay, so how many engagements could I take? How many one-on-one clients can I have at any one time? I have some work that has a known period of time. And I have like my active, like if you looked over my wall, right? What's active, what's pipeline, what's closing. So I always know. I mean, I have things that are written down, so I have reports. So I'm able to kind of see like what's what's going on. Um, and then I have sort of my goals for the business. So that's helpful to just sort of sort of manage that. Um, and then the reality is like I don't know as I'm growing as I'm bringing on coaches, and I've been really candid with them. And I said, you know, we're all in in the US, we're what we call 1099, we're all contractors. You know, I can't guarantee business. And I said, you know, we're we're we're affiliates of different organizations. And I said, you know, continue to do that. And I said, if and when there's work, like I want, I think you're a good match if you fit this sort of profile. I'm looking for people that have worked in corporate America and then led in corporate America because that's important to my clients. And then they went back and went into coaching, right? Because it's a good match for who I serve and who I work with, who have um certifications in coaching, who understand brain science, who kind of feel the way I feel about the sustainability piece, right? So we're we're aligned in how we want to serve and support that long term way, right? So if you have that alignment, I feel that's really important, right? So they know, hey, eventually they're gonna get work. And meanwhile, they have their other ways of getting work, so it's fine. So those those has that's how I'm trying to figure out scaling. And for me, I just I'm trying to grow sustainably. Right. So that's important as well. So I'm not looking to, you know, I say how many business, you know, how many corporate clients am I looking to grow this year? What's the pace at which I'm looking to grow? You know, we're if we're gonna check in next year, which would be kind of fun, right? To say like, did I do it? How fast did I grow? We'll see. Right. So it's it's a plan. We'll see if I did it according to plan. I think also sometimes it's just like you have opportunities and sometimes you just have to go for it. But at the same time, you know, I'm trying to make I'm trying to do it as um judiciously as as I can. But we'll see.

Pedro Stein 22:46

Okay. I love the the honesty. I love how open you are about that you know and one thing I want to ask you because you left corporate and then you started building your own practice. And that's something very interesting which is the the topic I'm gonna I want to highlight is pricing right because there's a lot of self-worth in that space right especially in the in the coaching industry because and and I would say even say service based industries it's like am I charging too much imposter syndrome am I am I not charging enough you know so how do you think it about it today you know and and were there any lessons along the way that shape how you landed where you are right now and I'm not talking about hard numbers you know I'm talking about like the mindset and the exactly um my good friend who I won't say her name she's gonna listen to this and she's gonna know exactly who she is is going to tell you that I'm not charging enough.

Debbie Plager 23:49

And and it's not interesting because again I will tell you where I sat I know what I should be charging and I'm probably not charging enough. And I'm still okay with that because I am talking with um a mentor of mine I know where I am I know what competitors were I also know I know where my brand is and I I look five years from now I know where I want to be charging but I also know like I have got to build the brand so give me time to build the brand I also know where I want to come in on the market so am I undercharging probably what I should be maybe um not too much I'm I'm deaf I'm I am trying to be middle mid-market and I'm trying to service mid-market and that's intentional because um that's where I think the greatest good can be made it's also where I think I can get in like getting into the Fortune 250 is really hard. That's where the larger firms play I don't want to deal with that noise. I want to get in where to organizations where we can make a difference.

Pedro Stein 25:07

So that also affects pricing and that's okay I love how how open you are you know Debbie uh at the end of the day you're not trying to play an act you're just you know I love that how open you are I mean it's like we're we're here to make a difference and make the world better.

Debbie Plager 25:25

And I think that there's still there is business to be won there is income to be made there's I mean there's revenue to be made there's lifestyle to be had there's right there's you can have a good life being a coach being a small business owner doing this well for everybody to feel good about it.

Pedro Stein 25:49

It's about always be sharpening the sword right it's always in the growth mindset. It's like you're not settling with that pricing but at the same at the same time you know there's room to improve I think that's key you know at least in my book. Now I'm curious about why you're taking all this and you kind of mentioned that okay scaling season. So looking ahead where do you see the business going? Are you thinking about scaling which you are hiring or is there a next step you're excited about you know I want to hear from the the Plague group what what comes next?

Debbie Plager 26:21

Yeah um I honestly think if I were to hire so my so everybody right now would be contractor right so it would be a very small initial footprint my guess is my first full-time employee or part-time employee would actually be on the operations side it would not be like wouldn't be a coach it would be someone to really help me run the business that makes sense yeah you know your plate right yeah oh yeah I mean it's like I it is so funny right like if you if you look back if someone said to me again daughter two teachers didn't understand any of this world got a history degree I have a master's in medieval history thought I was gonna teach learned about change management like I I didn't understand any any of this and then I was like oh I'm eventually I'm gonna be my own business person and now to think like I'm actually gonna be a small business owner like moving from just like just me to like now I'm actually thinking about how am I getting other people work is just mind blowing. And I was like I can do this. So I'm wanting to do this in a smart way too because I think there's just like I want to make sure that I'm if I'm gonna do this I'm doing this the right way and I take that very seriously. So I I'm not out to you know it's interesting I'm I'm part of a a small like leadership circle group with other small business owners and they've got you know actual employees and they're thinking about that and I said you know at what point do I want to do I want to do that model or do I want to stay how I am with a bunch of contractors. And I think like that's I want to see where I am and can I do this sustainably for a few years and then make that decision.

unknown 28:08

Right?

Debbie Plager 28:09

Because that's a whole other model.

Pedro Stein 28:11

Right right you know and and whenever we're aiming towards the next chapter always something under the hood that we're refining right in the present. So what are you currently trying to improve or tighten up in your business right now I mean I think it's definitely the operations.

Debbie Plager 28:26

I am not an operations person. Right. I think it's it's all those contracts all it's it's the I mean using the tech right like I've I've landed on a a coaching platform I'm excited about just because again going back to my side of my other side of the table like when I was chief talent officer like what I know it would provide for my um my clients to be able to say like from a reporting perspective hey we've got multiple coach you know client engagements going on here's how they're going right here's the ones that are about to wrap here's you know their surveys of what they're saying is happening here's maybe some group coaching that's going on here's some team coaching that's going on and being able to do all that reporting, doing all that stuff, which I know is nothing to do with the coaching, but it has to do with the the running of the business. I want to be able to you know make sure all that is ticked and tied because I think that's really important to show the business like this is a huge investment and this is how this investment is is going and to provide some transparency not on like the actual coaching that stays confidential but just the the process of it all right and to give them visibility into like hey you've got X number of engagements and you know some of them are a third of the way done and some of them are two thirds of the way done.

Pedro Stein 29:45

Here's um maybe some developmental themes right here's where we've got some survey data back um that they've they've shared uh right so I'd love to have be able to get that to a place where it's feeling really good that my coaches are feeling really good that they've got consistent resources that they're able to use that the client experience is feeling really really strong right so I want to for me like that's the next place to really really focus um and that's gonna require some some time and energy and folks so interesting okay now I want to tap into your experience for a second because people listening can really benefit from this you know you've been in a game long enough to hear all types of business advice good bad you name it now what's one piece of business advice you hear all the time that you think it's overrated or even misunderstood sometimes it's like giving your services away for free and doing too many like free sessions this free sessions that don't do it because once you do that it's really hard to get stuff back right so I mean I'm okay if you're doing an initial chemistry call for free I think that absolutely makes sense but then hey can we do this for free can we do that I think they've already then they're they're they're perceiving you in a different way so just hold your line hold your value I think that other piece of just also just remember your value so that's a piece I'm t I'm really still kind of torn on the whole niche down.

Debbie Plager 31:26

I mean I think you have to niche to a certain point in terms of because the the way that social media is working and just cutting through the noise and to be to be fair right like because I'm not B2C I can't really talk too much about that space and how people find each other. So I'm not great and I'm intentionally off social media just for my own like well being so if that's how you find people I think it's amazing. I know so many people that do and I hats off to you like I know lots of people that are active on Insta and find people there.

Pedro Stein 32:04

I had people tell me I should go on a TikTok when TikTok was like really huge for um and just like Debbie you should do videos and that's where you're gonna find people and I was like no yeah I cannot picture an executive following on TikTok you know I don't think they hang out there. No not really but you know like it's like maybe my son could find me exactly right exactly well it's that mentality of just throwing stuff at the wall like oh you should be all over you know but when you're all over you're you're not really in a specific spot you're you're you're you're I would say you're spreading yourself too thin.

Debbie Plager 32:44

You know I would agree with that.

Pedro Stein 32:46

Yeah that's what at least the way I see it.

Debbie Plager 32:48

Now on the other side what's a piece of advice which people you know more people actually took seriously oh okay this I would find is so I went through what I would call an amazing sort of business boot camp which was tremendous when I was sort of that first year of really launching the PlayGo group. So I kind of knew what I wanted to do and it really helped me refine. And there were a couple of sessions that just were really helpful. And one was a different way to think about sales and networking so one is really leverage your network. Think about your top 100 to 200 people and I know that's scary and I know that that seems like a lot of people but really think about your people in your network. And it's not like everybody so it's not for me for example everybody I don't need 200 CHROs I need who are 200 people in my network who know me, who believe in me who could open doors for me who can just who can share my story. So it could be an accounting friend of mine who just deeply believes in me who I just want to connect in and just hear what's going on in his or her life and and really hear what's happening and once a year I'm gonna have a deep conversation with this person and I'm gonna hear their pain points and I just need to make sure that they get the story right of what I'm doing so that when they're hearing what's going on and they're hearing someone else in their network lament, oh man, my team is just really blowing up or man I just work with this jerk. I'd say something stronger but I don't know your your your view on uh profanity on your podcast. You can do it it's allowed you should you know what you should be you should talk to Debbie right because you know that Debbie works with jerks and helps turn them around or Debbie's really good at helping align teams right like you just need to have those 200 people out there because they know you and they trust you right so use your network deliberately and intentionally and this woman who's amazing and she said you know kind of like she said you know these great comedians and they go on comedy tour and she she lives in the Midwest so she's like me but she's not in she's not outside Chicago like I am she's in a smaller city. She said you know they go on tour and they start in in Des Moines and they go to whatever and they go to Madison and they go somewhere and eventually they end up in Chicago and by the time they end up at Chicago their show is perfect. So you don't like figure out your story, test it somewhere play it somewhere like bring it on tour and then you know go with your friendlies first and then hone it, hone it, hone it. So by the time you're mostly telling it to most people it's a really really crisp story. So it's okay if like your first 10 times you tell it it's a little wonky. So I thought that's brilliant. So really when you're thinking about quote sales and networking your sales is you your sales are your stories. So think about it that way and I thought whoa she's like isn't that a lot less yucky and I thought yeah that's a lot less yucky. So for whatever that's worth think about your network and really invest in being clear about what's your story. What are you really trying to quote sell? And it's the value that you provide and just have it in a couple of vignettes of the pain that you solve what's your killer problem that you solve make sure you can tell it in a couple stories.

Pedro Stein 36:37

I really like that especially the fact that you're sitting down with that accountant and you're like thinking about it right you're having to practice like how do I solve the pain this uh did he got what I actually do you know because that's gonna show up in the sales calls later down the road if you don't have practice it's like I'm not sure what she does. You know and sometimes I'm talking with coaches and other people and they're like trying to explain to me what they do and who they serve and how they solve it. And they start with you know what what I think I could and and you can you're like what what exactly are you trying to tell me you know and you don't feel it but if you have that practice I think that's that's very powerful you know because you've been there you've done that you've been through the elevator pitch you know exactly who you serve you know exactly how you serve and who you don't serve so I think that's a very powerful reminder.

Debbie Plager 37:29

I like that so Pedro so here's my two stories. So like if you've got right teams that are like you've got rock stars on teams but they are not where they need to be and they're leaving potential on the table and you know they can do more and they need to do more I can get them aligned and get business out the door and get them working together. Love that now you've all heard okay so you're like I've got a team you're like wow I've got a senior team and they're stressed imagine this right if senior teams can be just five percent better imagine what that can do for your organization.

Pedro Stein 38:08

If you can invest anywhere and you can get your senior team even five percent better Debbie and if someone listening wants to connect with you or follow your work where can people find you and connect with you? Best place is LinkedIn I'm pretty active on LinkedIn Debbie Plaguer the Plaguer group page is not that active but Debbie Plaguer is pretty active I have a website theplagergroup.com and those are great places to find me nice you know there were a few things you shared today I feel like I need to highlight you know the aha moment with Leslie and you know I want to be her when I grow up at your 30s I love that this is like such an open-minded person it's like oh my god I want to there's something here I need to tap in there's something here and I'm curious about you know and having that curiosity I I mean this is like such a great feat a great asset to have you know during your life this always keeps you you know engaged uh updated and all I really love that curiosity you know and I would say the overall thing I would have to highlight is how vulnerable you were during the entire podcast you know from niching down to saying I'm not really sure at right now if I should be niching down X, Y, and Z or if this exactly the spot that I should be to I'm still figuring out capacity, you know? Or right now I'm not sure if I'm charging enough. So Davi I think that's such a powerful reminder for your own integrity and how because at the end of the day when you're in you're in front of a coach and you're trying to connect right it's about connection and you're going to make some tough questions right some hard questions. You're navigating through stuff that they really don't want to do sometimes. So if you're open to they feel like it's easier to talk to you you know that's at least on my book this is how I perceive it. Now this is my long way of saying Debbie that I appreciate what you do and I appreciate you being here and sharing so openly today okay it was great having you on.

Debbie Plager 40:21

Thank you. It was a real pleasure I'm glad to be here.

Davis Nguyen 40:24

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation you can subscribe to YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This conversation was brought to you by Purple Circle where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. To learn more about Purple Circle, our community and how we can help you grow your business, visit join purplecircle.com