How Cameron Tolman Rebuilt Sales Around Buyer Psychology

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, Pedro sits down with Cameron Tolman, founder of Pitch Down, to explore a completely different way of thinking about sales, communication, and customer understanding.

Cameron shares how he went from being anti-sales to becoming a high-performing sales leader and coach after realizing that most professionals are trained to talk about their product—not their customer. His framework, “pitching down,” flips traditional sales on its head by focusing on understanding the buyer’s current reality, uncovering the gap in their thinking, and guiding them toward clarity instead of pressure-based persuasion.

The conversation goes deep into why most founders struggle with sales, how misaligned messaging kills early-stage growth, and why true selling starts with curiosity, not convincing. Cameron also breaks down how his Pitch Down methodology helps founders build strong go-to-market foundations, avoid expensive mistakes, and scale with integrity.

Connect with

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camerontolman/
Website: https://www.pitchdown.com/

Transcript

Cam Tolman 0:00

You get trained to talk about yourself. You get trained to talk about your company. You get trained to talk about your product. But what nobody teaches you is how to actually talk about your customer. And so what I took on myself and and and what made me really successful as a sales rep was the ability to stop talking about myself and start talking about them. And I'm not talking about them through the lens of my product and how great my product is and how it's going to make Pedro better and it's going to improve his life. My job in sales is actually to do the opposite and pitch Pedro and help Pedro realize you think you're up here, but your reality state is actually down here. And when I can get Pedro to come down this staircase and accept that his reality is not quite as great as he thinks it is, if I can pitch you down to that level, you get into a buyer's mindset where you then ask, how can Cam help me?

Davis Nguyen 0:47

What can you now do for me? Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro 1:20

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro and today I'm joined by Cameron Tallman, founder of Pitch Down, who has identified one of the most overlooked problems in business. Sales is everyone's job, but almost no one gets the proper training to succeed at it. What makes Cameron's perspective unique is his recognition that most professionals, from founders to technical teams, are outsiders to sales who either misunderstand it or actively avoid it, creating a chaotic scramble instead of systematic growth. Cameron specializes in transforming this dysfunction by building repeatable GTM strategies and coaching sales talent in every seat, not just hiring more of it. His approach focuses on creating simple frameworks that actually stick and laying down real systems that allow businesses to scale beyond the founder's personal network and technical expertise. Welcome to the show, Cameron. Thanks so much for having me, Pedro. Glad to be here. Yeah, I'm excited that you're here, you know. And before we get into what you do now, I'm actually curious how this all actually started. You know, so what was going on in your life when coaching became more than just an idea?

Cam Tolman 2:39

Yeah, story. I was raised anti-sales. Uh I don't know, frankly, that many people that like salespeople, except for salespeople themselves. Uh yeah, my upbringing, I was kind of taught to dismiss and avoid all things sales until I started my own business about 15 years ago. Um and when you own your own business, you are everything. You are sales, your accounting, your finance, your product, your everything. Upon selling that business, I went and got my MBA and wanted to make a move actually across the country here to Utah. And when I when I was ready to make that leap, coming out of the landscaping space into a booming tech world, the only path in was to join in a sales function. And I, despite how much hatred and frankly misunderstanding I had of sales, I found it was my it was my next path. And getting into it, I had a massive awakening that sales is not what I thought it was. And it's not what everybody else in the world thinks it is. And upon figuring out how it works and um succeeding and having a lot of really early success, I found it was my calling not to just go out and sell, but to teach the rest of the world what sales actually is, because we are all in sales and I want to change the way it's perceived and done in as many people's lives as I possibly can.

Pedro 4:11

Okay. I love that you were open enough to tell us that you have a somewhat of a misconception of what sales actually means in practice, right? I love that that journey, but I want to understand one thing. At what point did it stop feeling like a side thing, the coaching side, right? Or a calling, and start feeling like an actual business you are responsible for, you know? And I'm not sure if it's the first pay client, the first invoice, you know, how when that process actually started?

Cam Tolman 4:40

It's when you get invited to come and teach a team this psychology, this methodology, and this approach that is foreign. That's when I knew this is a real business. This is an opportunity to coach full-time. Before that, it was part of my job. It was, you know, just what I did day in and day out, hiring hundreds of sales reps in a year, growing and scaling really big teams as an employee. But when an outside team and company saw what I did, what I know, how I approach sales, and I got pulled in to go do a sales kickoff at the beginning of a year, kickoff for a sales team. That's when I knew this is my this is my moment to pivot.

Pedro 5:23

So they were like, oh, you can do that thing, can you help us? It's something like that always, right? So now let me walk walk me through the name of the business. I think that that's very curious. So it's called Pitch Down, right? Yep. And how did you came up with that idea?

Cam Tolman 5:38

Over many, many hiring classes of business development reps, I was bringing in 10 to 15 new sales reps every two weeks uh into one of the companies I worked for. And I was tasked with training and coaching these first-time sales reps into the process, the system, the operation, and frankly the psychology of what sales is and how this works. Because this is a first-time sales gig for most everybody I was hiring. And in coaching and training them, you know, you look at any onboarding experience with any employee that joins any company, what do they get taught, Pedro? They get taught here's our company history, here's our product, here's what it does, here's all the benefits, here's all the features, here's you get trained to talk about yourself. You get trained to talk about your company, you get trained to talk about your product. But what nobody teaches you is how to actually talk about your customer. And so what I took on myself and and and what made me really successful as a sales rep was the ability to stop talking about myself and start talking about them. And I'm not talking about them through the lens of my product and how great my product is and how it's gonna make Pedro better and it's gonna improve his life. My job in sales is actually to do the opposite and pitch Pedro and help Pedro realize you think you're up here, but your reality state is actually down here. And when I can get Pedro to come down this staircase and accept that his reality is not quite as great as he thinks it is, if I can pitch you down to that level, you get into a buyer's mindset where you then ask, how can Cam help me? What can you now do for me? So my whole company and this whole vision is about teaching everybody in the world that your job is not to talk about yourself and how great your product and services are, but to actually talk about the reality state of your buyer and help them accept and acknowledge the gap and the this state down here of reality that they're actually in.

Pedro 7:39

Okay. That makes perfect sense. Okay. Now, once you were out there helping people, Kim, who did you naturally end up attracting? You know, when did you realize, okay, this these are the people I work best with, you know, this is my tribe.

Cam Tolman 7:54

It's a big tribe, Pedro. Frankly, everybody who's not in sales but is in sales, which is a really weird statement to make. But arguably, if you're in HR, you're in sales. If you are in product, you're in sales. If you're a founder, you're in sales. If you're in marketing, you're in sales. But none of these people have the title of sales, so they never get any sales training. My audience is broad because everybody needs sales training and hardly anybody gets it. But I found a particular niche currently within the founder mindset. I've been a founder myself, I've started my own business. I have a very close understanding and relationship with founders who are carrying way too much, spinning way too many plates, and are really passionate about their business, but don't know how to translate that into customer talk. So currently I'm working primarily with early stage founders who are very technical and know a lot about themselves. They know a lot about their product, and I teach them to stop talking about themselves and really look at the customer and and speak through that lens.

Pedro 9:04

Okay. Now let's pretend I'm one of those founders, right? And what I want to understand is the marketing part. So how how would I be able to find you my way to you in your in the first place, you know, marketing-wise. How would you find me as a coach? Yeah, I uh uh pitch down or the services you provide right now as a coach. Yeah.

Cam Tolman 9:25

Sure. Yeah, I'm building up my online presence, but outside of my website and LinkedIn content, I have uh an executive assistant who's working with me on social media content. I think short form content and little snippets of just the tiniest little nugget that I could digest and practice and digest and practice and j digest and practice is how people get better. And so I'm working on creating that content and spitting it out on a variety of profiles and social platforms. Okay.

Pedro 10:00

Now let's pr pretend I'm one of those founders. I looked at your content, visited your website, right? And that kind of resonated with me. I'm like, hey, Cam seems like a cool guy. I want to know what his services is all about. And uh we ended up on a call or whatever your sales process looks like right now. Uh we see we see there's alignment. I end up closing, okay? And I'm now a client. So maybe there are different programs, or I'm not sure how that plays out, but walk me through as a client, right? I'm being on border, what to expect from pitch down.

Cam Tolman 10:31

Yeah, a lot of questions. My job is to be very curious and get to know your business inside and out. So I spend a good amount of time understanding where you are, where you came from. But most importantly, Pedro, I need to understand your why. Because your why is gonna be the basis of everything that happens. It's gonna determine my roadmap and what I'm gonna do for you and how long we're gonna actually work together and how big of a team we're gonna build and how aggressive we are with goals. But also importantly, it's gonna shape the messaging of what we're how we're gonna message, how we're gonna go to market. So I spend a lot of time, probably about the first 30 days with my clients, getting deep into the weeds of why you started this, where you've been, what's worked, who you've identified as your target audience, why you've identified them, how much validation do you actually have on your product, how much price testing have you done? So, again, I'm gonna take you through a full gauntlet of discovery and understand what have you done and what have you skipped. Most founders have skipped a lot of really important steps early on in their business. And my job is to make sure that we check all those boxes and ensure we're going the right direction with the right product, the right message, with the right pricing, with the right everything. Once we've established a bit of a blueprint, I'm gonna find gaps in that blueprint and where the foundation hasn't yet been laid. And then my my job is to dive into filling in that foundation, right? We're gonna pour more cement, we're gonna put more bricks down, we're gonna pour more whatever we have to do. But that foundation initially comes off of a lot of discovery and unpacking why are we here and what have we done so far. Uh, and then that guides the rest of the relationship going forward. Okay.

Pedro 12:19

Now, what outcomes should I expect as a client working with pitch down?

unknown 12:23

Yeah.

Cam Tolman 12:23

You should expect me to fire myself in about six to seven months. My goal is to be a uh very cost-effective go-to-market chief revenue officer, whatever you want to call me, to shortcut the mistakes that most founders make many, many times that are very expensive and delay their go-to-market, delay their revenue and burn a lot of cash and and a lot of runway. So my goal is to again set a foundation on what is the overall strategy that um that foundation upon which I can build a go-to-market team. I help bring in the actual go-to-market team for my clients and make sure they're up, running, accountable, winning. And once that's a sustainable motion, I I get out of the way and let that team continue to run. And one of those hires typically becomes the go-to-market manager.

Pedro 13:21

Okay. Now, walk me through one thing because I was in sales too, right? For a while. And we we had and we we share that experience, like in the landscaping industry. I remember we talked about that in the pre-interview. Yeah. But I want to understand your point of view because you kind of disconstructed what sales is for you, right? When you started, you t you told me, oh, I hated sales, I had this bad idea what sales really meant. So what does sales mean to you right now? What's the new intake you got after working and after creating pitch down? Just so I I can't understand.

Cam Tolman 13:56

Sales is is not about convincing anybody, it's not about manipulating anybody, it's not about coercion, it's not about persuasion, it's not about smooth, slick. It's about listening to the customer and finding if that's my most favorite word. If Pedro's reality needs my support, product, service, whatever it might be. It really is a game of just discovery. And it's a game of asking the right questions to help unpack. Does this prospect need my help? And if so, fantastic. I would love to offer you my service and my product. But if I don't find any alignment or any gap in Pedro's situation, I'm gonna shake your hand and we're gonna be great friends and we'll move on. But there's no reason for me to sell you anything that you don't need. And my job is, and frankly, what I want sales to look like going forward is it's a humble, honest relationship of trust and respect where I just dig in and understand your reality. And if we find alignment, great, let's talk about a solution that I might be able to help you with.

Pedro 15:04

Okay. So the ABC D always be closing bros, they're kind of data. It's not just pushing an agenda, it's first understanding.

Cam Tolman 15:11

I got the right I'll be the first to admit there are a bunch of ABC closers that are that will outsell me left and right. And that's fine with me. I would much rather sell a sticky product that is deeply needed than go and hit a number and not go home with the integrity that I want every day. Now, I've found myself in top performing stack rank against anybody else out there. I've I've outperformed most everybody I've I've sold against. And I think that just comes with the integrity and the ability to say no, you're not a good fit, and moving on to the next faster than everybody else, because I'm not holding on to bad deals, and I don't think anybody should. So I will be outsold. I'm not the best sales rep out there, but I am a rep with integrity, and and that garners a lot of respect and a lot of trust. And those customers are extremely valuable because they know they were sold what they needed, not a tool for the sake of me having a paycheck.

Pedro 16:12

Okay. I like that. Now, Cam, your work seems pretty involved, right? We're talking about creating almost like a custom experience. You map it out, you create the blueprint. So, especially in the coaching space, how do you think about managing your time and energy so the business doesn't start owning you? Because, like I said, in the coaching space, sometimes we're wearing all the hats, right? So, how how to fix that?

Cam Tolman 16:36

Well, this sets the stage for me to tell you about where pitch down is going. So, currently I carry a handful of clients, and I'm, again, very deep in that foundation laying, and it is very labor intensive. I am about 70% done with my book, Pedro. I am planning to publish later this summer. Pitch down is is something that I believe needs to be preached on stages for at every conference, at every seminar, at every event in every industry. If I'm talking to an accountant, they need to they need to know how to pitch down. If I'm talking to an attorney, they need to know how to pitch down. If I'm talking to an HR team, they need to know how to pitch down. So what I'm doing to scale and replicate this business and and to give it legs is publishing a book. So that's coming out this summer. I have plans to build actually a team of coaches that are certified on the pitch down methodology who will be able to travel and speak not only at conferences, but also do workshopping within an independent or individual business and to really get this method methodology and system and approach taught to the masses. And the way that I'm actually building up that community currently is I'm using a Kajabi community to uh do live coaching on my website tuesdays at two.com. So every Tuesday at two mountain time, I'm doing live coaching with anybody and everybody out there who knows they need sales coaching. So this is where I'm gonna really be able to scale the business outside of my handful of really intimate clients.

Pedro 18:14

Exciting. I mean licensing and all of that. Now, you kind of future tell my question, which was about future, ironically. Now, let me ask you this 70% of done with the book. What's the book gonna be called and what's uh what it is all about?

Cam Tolman 18:29

It's pitched down. Future books might have a different name, but it is a foundational walkthrough of the psychology of why humans purchase, why humans make changes in their life, and how that buyer's mindset can be achieved by anybody through great question asking and what the navigation is to get somebody into that buyer's mindset. And then it's actually gonna tailor in part three various roles and various industries. How do I actually implement this? So it becomes a bit of a workbook style approach for this to be an interactive tool and not just uh a read by turning pages. Okay.

Pedro 19:07

You know, I have a question for you specifically about pricing. And you kind of mentioned pricing, right? Uh have you have you tested your price and all that for your clients? And the reason I asked this is because in the coaching space, there's a lot of self-worth tied to pricing. Like it's your time, right? Usually. So let me ask you this weren't there any lessons along the way that shaped where you're where you're at right now about pricing specifically? Because, you know, oh, am I charging too much? Am I not charging enough? You know, that type of mentality we have sometimes in the coaching space.

Cam Tolman 19:42

One of my mentors who's about three years ahead of me in this coaching world, is one I rely on regularly. He does a lot of very similar work to me and made a lot of the same mistakes that I started to make early on. I was charging just frankly hourly, putting out a retainer and then working off those hours and just billable hours. And what he cautioned me on is that this becomes a bit of a billable hour rat race. He yeah, he shared with me, frankly, the journey he was on was very similar to the one I started. What I've evolved to now is a project-based monthly retainer that's flat independent of my time. And what I've been able to do is build frameworks and templates and models that are replicable in all different companies that are just as valuable, whether I built it unique to you or it's templatized, and I use that as my framework to fill it in. And what I was doing prior required me to just log hours, log hours and log hours. And I found it's actually frankly far more beneficial for me and the client to put it on flat retainer and tackle projects faster without worrying about how many hours did I log and did I bill enough hours. It's changed my mindset into being really value adding versus billing hours and being busy, if that makes sense.

Pedro 21:08

Yeah, it's like stop tying your price with a clock and start connecting with like the outcome, right? Not necessarily nothing magical happens when the the clock hits the 60 minute mark. It's just trading time for money. And and when you have tied that with the outcome, that seems like more legit. Sounds like it's less of a hassle too, right? If it's like, oh, didn't got it the full hour, I got two 10 minutes before, it sounds like I'm stealing their time. Or if I got one hour and ten minutes before after it sounds like I should be charging more, you know, it gets weird to that weird position. And it also kind of kinda puts you in a a commodity uh ideal, right? They start comparing your services hourly to people that are not even in the same industry, right?

Cam Tolman 21:57

Yeah, yeah, your rate all of a sudden Becomes the deciding factor in a way versus the knowledge, expertise, the things I've been through, the lessons I've learned, and how valuable those are to shortcutting you to success. Because that's ultimately what what I'm here for is to get you to a state of success that you wouldn't be able to without someone who's been through it. And that's where the value is now placed on this new pricing model. And I'm able to shortcut them even faster because I'm not worried about the clock. You're exactly right.

Pedro 22:33

Okay. Now I feel the need to tap into your experience, right? Because I had a lot of coaches in the show.

unknown 22:40

Okay.

Pedro 22:41

But you're kind of unique. Not that I didn't have people in the same area you're in, like in sales and all that. But I feel the I need to ask you something, right? Because a lot of coaches they join the space, the coaching space, because they love the coach, right? And sometimes they have nothing related to selling. And it's kind of a nikky theme for them. They oh, I don't want to sell, and they I want to do my practice. And you you kind of I imagine you kind of know the drill, right? So let me ask you Desman how to to to you know, because how to to to ease up on their minds that they're serving, for example, they not don't necessarily have to close people on the spot, but they have to control the scarcity mindset, right? The bills are knocking on the door and all of that. How how to find that balance and and to make sure they understand uh, for example, the pitch-down idea of how to sell, you know?

Cam Tolman 23:34

So just to make sure I'm understanding the question, how can the pitch down methodology apply to a consultant? Like or a coach?

Pedro 23:41

Like a coach, right? Like a coach, yeah, because sometimes there's a lot of pressure, right, Cam. There's a lot of people that I need to sell the next uh thing, and they're in the coaching space, and they sometimes they they get into the scarcity mindset. They they lower their prices, they just want to close and all that. How how to control that beast, you know?

Cam Tolman 24:00

And there's so many times, and I have empathy to everybody who's experiencing it, and it's far easier said than done what I'm about to say. So I say this with empathy and understanding to everybody who's worried about that next month or closing the next customer. When you can let go of yourself, yourself will be taken care of. When you care more genuinely about understanding your prospect and helping them, well, let's let's start here. When you can help, when you can truly understand what they are doing, where they are, what they're facing, what their challenges are, you're gonna open the door for the close in a way that you don't have to push it. Because what ends up happening is you do this discovery process is not only do you, the coach, understand the reality state of your prospect or your buyer, but your buyer understands the reality state, and they start to understand that gap is getting bigger and bigger the more Cam asks me questions, the more he probes and pokes at my business, and the more he asks me details about my go-to-market strategy and my validation and my pricing and my team and my attainment and my funding and my runway, the more painful this becomes. And so the more time you can spend talking about your prospect and closing your mouth about yourself, the closer you get somebody into that buyer's mindset. And there's a threshold that I talk about in the book and in my methodology that there's a threshold that somebody passes where they say, I feel good up here. And once I cross this threshold, I don't like it down here. And when I don't like it down here, I go to the hospital. And you, coach, happen to be my hospital to fix the situation and give me the prescription to get me healthy again. So I I urge this with everybody I talk to spend less time talking about yourself, spend more time talking about your prospect. They're gonna feel you differently, they're gonna see themselves differently, they're gonna trust you more. And this is what takes that pressure, persuasion, convincing off the table. And closes just happen. I'm not a slick, hard closer sales guy. I'm a very soft, gentle personality, but I close a lot of business because I build a lot of trust and respect with my buyers.

Pedro 26:16

You know, and I have people in the show I appreciate that. You know, and I I have a follow-up question. Like I had people in the show that were telling me, you know what? It's not that I don't like selling, I just hate rejection, you know. So do you have any tips for for that type of mentality?

Cam Tolman 26:34

Well, I'd want to ask everybody who said that why they hate rejection, because there's probably something deeply rooted in them that hurts, and it does hurt. I it I I have it too. We all hate rejection, but it's a pretty personal experience every time you get rejected, and it often roots back to something from your childhood or maybe relationships. What I'll say is the best salespeople love a no. They love a no because it's just math. And Pedro, what I'll say is if you know your math, you know that it takes you three opportunities to win one, I need two people to tell me no really fast because the law of averages and math is gonna work out that maybe the next, maybe the next two or three is that yes, and it's gonna average out. And if you have a genuine service and you're providing genuine value with integrity and honesty, and you're hustling, the math and everything's gonna work out. So as bad as rejection hurts, just remember it's just part of the math. Two in every three are gonna be a no. Get through them. Be grateful that somebody told you no because that means you're one closer. And be grateful for the next no because you're one closer. And that next one, on the average, is gonna be your yes. And if you can maintain that attitude as you're going through building and closing your pipeline, no's are exciting because they're one step closer to the next yes.

Pedro 28:04

I like that. Okay. You know, Cam, and even when things are going well, when we were talking about future before, right? There's always something under construction. So what's the main thing you're actively working on or trying to improve in the business right now?

Cam Tolman 28:18

This is a big pivot for me, Pedro, to the book. You know, this community of live coaching, getting this book released and starting a workshop and speaking circuit is a massive undertaking for me. So I've been really grateful to have fantastic mentors to coach and give me some guidance to, again, the same thing I do for my clients. I have mentors that are shortcutting me and helping me get ahead. Um, I'm meeting with authors who have had successful book launches and and uh are published authors, and some of them are um like Amazon top selling in their category. Um I've been able to pull in an executive assistant to keep me on track and push me and just I tell her bug me, bug me, bug me, keep me moving. I've got an editor working on the book, and I've got a marketing agency that knows how to get a book out there and make it a big deal and give it a strong presence. So I'm spinning a lot of plates on this transition into the next side of the business, but this is what I really passionately set out to do. The independent clients that I have are foundational to my lifestyle and and my financial stability, but the passion is in coaching and uh getting this message out there for the masses.

Pedro 29:43

Okay. You know, and before we close this out, Kim, if someone resonated with what you shared and wants to follow your work, where should they go? Yeah.

Cam Tolman 29:52

Connect with me at pitchdown.com. That is my home base. Fill out and reach out to me. I'd love to connect with anybody and have a quick conversation. Um, you can also get into uh my mailing list there and stay with me on the community build, the book launch, and speaking engagements that I'll be uh traveling for over the coming months and years. So yeah, pitchdown.com is a place to find me.

Pedro 30:17

Okay. You know, there are a few moments that I would love to highlight from this chat. I would say the the origin story, right? You're you're having skin in the game telling me that you had hatred for sales. I think everyone at one point had that feeling, you know, and I worked in sales, I had the same feeling. It's like, but when you reflect back, it was just bad experiences, right? People that were not really good sales reps, people that aren't tr just trying to push an agenda and their services and all of that. So having that misconception or having that misunderstanding of what sales really meant are something that really moved the needle for me, you know, and it shows that for you as well, which is like at the end of the day, is serving, it's not just pushing stuff into people that really don't need the stuff you're selling or the services or the product or whatever. So that that was a great point. I would say when I asked about your business, you're like, you'll you're gonna find their why, right? Your why you mentioned. So it starts with a lot of questions, which basically is pretty much aligned with the origin story, right? It's like, hey, first, in order for me to understand if this serves you, I need to know more about you, right? It's not just trying to corner people. I feel like sometimes that happens, right? People in the the sales process, they're like trigger and they're like sometimes they have some kind of friction because they think they're gonna use something against them. But if you have true intention and integrity, it shows during the call that that's not really about that. It's just about trying to understand first, right? If this is gonna make sense or not. Last but not least, I would say uh the overall masterclass you gave about selling, I really like that, you know, the pitching down is like getting to their level and and creating that chasm and for them to understand what their reality really is and what do your services provide, so it becomes almost like a no-brainer. You know, you don't even have to pitch them hard or anything like that. Well, Cam, this is my long-winded way of saying that I really appreciate you taking the time and being open with this, okay? It was great having you on.

Cam Tolman 32:23

It was a pleasure to join you. Thanks for the opportunity.

Davis Nguyen 32:25

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This podcast was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, or even $100,000 weeks, all without burning out and making sure that you're making the impact and having the life that you want. To learn more about our community and how we can help you, visit join purplecircle.com.