The Confidence Gap at Work and How to Close It with Susan Barber

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, our guest is Susan Barber, a leadership coach, former corporate executive, and founder dedicated to helping professionals—especially women—gain clarity, confidence, and visibility in their careers without sacrificing authenticity or well-being. Drawing from her extensive corporate experience and coaching practice, Susan shares actionable strategies for overcoming self-doubt, navigating workplace dynamics, building executive presence, and advocating for your value in competitive environments. We explore common career roadblocks, the importance of mindset shifts, and how to take intentional steps toward meaningful advancement. Whether you're feeling stuck, overlooked, or ready to level up, this conversation offers practical insights you can apply immediately.

You can find her on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanbarbercoaching/
https://susanmbarber.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@susanmbarber
https://www.instagram.com/susanmbarber29/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/beboldbevisiblebetheleaderyouaremeanttobe
https://www.facebook.com/susanmbarber29
https://pod.link/1612337338
https://susanmbarber.com/thevisibilityfactor/
https://susanmbarber.com/your-journey-to-visibility-workbook/

Transcript

Susan Barber 0:00

Well, in the beginning, I gave way too much away for sure, uh, with because that was kind of the model I was following. Like giveaway coaching sessions to, you know, build the trust and all of that. And then you can start to charge them more. But I found that that is a challenge in some ways because then people are used to not paying much. They're not paying anything.

Davis Nguyen 0:21

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight-figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro Stein 0:52

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro, and today I'm joined by Susan Barber, who discovered the hard way that being naturally quiet and doing excellent work isn't enough to get noticed by decision makers. What makes Susan's story compelling is how she transformed difficult feedback about her lack of visibility into a systematic approach that not only advanced her own career but became a proven methodology so she successfully taught to her entire team. Susan now specializes in helping high-achieving business leaders from managers to VPs who break through the visibility barrier that keeps talented professionals stuck. Despite their strong performance, her approach is uniquely effective because it mirrors how senior leaders actually think and make decisions about promotions, focusing on authentic ways to build personal brand, articulate value, and position yourself for new opportunities. Welcome to the show, Susan.

Susan Barber 2:02

Well, thank you. Hi, everybody. This is that was a great intro. Thank you.

Pedro Stein 2:05

Well, I blame you.

Susan Barber 2:07

You know, you blame me.

Pedro Stein 2:10

Exactly. I I didn't come came up with those years of experience. That's all on you.

Susan Barber 2:15

Yeah, yeah, that's true. True.

Pedro Stein 2:17

Susan, I'm excited that you're here, you know, um, from the day we met. And before we get into what you do now, I'm curious how this all actually started. So, what was going on in your life when coaching became more than just an idea?

Susan Barber 2:32

You know, at the time uh I was leaving my company. I'd been there for 25 plus years, and uh they were going through a kind of a combination of merger and acquisition at the same time. And I just thought, you know, there's more that I could be doing out in the world. And so uh I had my own coach at the time, and she had this cool way of helping me through the challenges I was having. And I thought, this could be a job. I could actually do this. This could be fun. So, you know, she helped me with the school she went to to get certified and kind of set me off on the path of trying to figure out how to do this for myself and build a business, which I'd never done before, which was a little scary. Uh, but it was a lot of fun to just explore, you know, what could be next and how could I help people?

Pedro Stein 3:18

You know, you mentioned something that I'm gonna highlight, which is the scary part because what I love to understand is like at what point did it stop feeling like a side thing or a calling, even and start feeling like an actual business you were responsible for. You know, I'm not sure if it's the first paying clients, the first invoice, how how that played out.

Susan Barber 3:39

I'll share us. I haven't told a ton of people this, so I'll share this with you and all of the listeners because I think it's important that people understand that you go into this with one mindset of, oh, I'm gonna start coaching people. I don't think I really adopted the fact that I was a business owner until probably five years in, honestly. I thought I have to have a company to coach and to be able to invoice people and to work with companies. But I never really saw myself as like the CEO of a company. So that took a little longer for me, maybe than most. Uh, and that shift was really important because it changed the way I started to operate, how I started to show up in the world, the things that I started to talk about, and how I could really start to be more of an authority in the space that I was in and start to play bigger, which is, you know, of course, what I'm advocating for my clients to do and I needed to do as well.

Pedro Stein 4:33

Okay. You know, and in the intro, I kind of mentioned who you serve today, but I would love to understand is like, you know, once you were out there helping those people and coaching them, who did you naturally end up attracting? You know, when did you realize, okay, this is my tribe? Because in the early days for coaching, there's a lot of trial and error, right? We're trying to serve everyone. So, how that worked out for you.

Susan Barber 4:57

So I initially was trying to shift the perception of me from being an IT director at a big company to a leadership coach, thought leader in this space. And so I worked with someone who had a group coaching program. And I said, you know, I need to change that. And he said, Why don't you start writing? And I said, Never written anything. I don't know what you're talking about. He said, No, no, no, just start writing. And so he really helped me have a little confidence and courage to start writing. So I wrote every day for 18 months and put out pretty vulnerable, authentic stories about me, situations I had been through. And I wanted to share those with honesty because a lot of people didn't know all the things that I went through in corporate. I didn't always, you know, blast those out to everyone. And that was what was interesting is people who read them, some of them former people from my company, but also other people said, I read your story, that's happening to me. And that is what was kind of this light bulb moment of, oh my gosh, there's a bunch of people going through this visibility challenge that I had. And I didn't even know that, honestly. You know, I thought it was just me. So when I started getting repeated people of, I need to play bigger, I need to stop hiding, I need more confidence, I need to try to show up differently at work so that I get noticed. That was like an aha moment for me. I thought, oh my gosh, they're the they're the 10-year, you know, before me. I am now. And uh I have definitely been through this and can help them. So it was really kind of a cool way that that happened. I didn't expect it. And uh, you know, that's what led to writing the books and you know, everything else I've been doing since then.

Pedro Stein 6:40

Now I'm curious about one thing because I've had past guests that told me they started writing as like as in a journal, but not necessarily tied to a book or something like that. How did that work out for you? Like, did you have the mentality at the end of the day to launch a book based on the writing, or is it more like a therapy for you and start just putting the words in paper? How did that work out for you?

Susan Barber 7:05

I mean, I did some journaling, but they weren't connected necessarily. That was more for just me to process everything that was happening at the time, I think. Uh no, it was really just to start to share information and really start to change the perception of me, was really my goal at the beginning. It was not to write a book initially necessarily, but I that was kind of a dream I had for a while. But I never expected to do that, you know, for I don't know, a period of time. I didn't know how long it would take me. But I thought, you know, if I can figure out how to write 500 words a day, 800 words a day, maybe, you know, I can write a book. You know, I think that I needed to do that first to prove to myself that what I had to say was important, that people were reading it and responding to it, and they were starting to see me differently. And that was, you know, ultimately my goal at the time.

Pedro Stein 7:56

I feel like I need to start doing that. Everyone keeps telling me that it sounds like very impactful, you know, and a form of reflection too. Now, I'd love to understand and talk about with the five years in, you know, uh Susan with the business owner, because I want to shift to marketing right now, you know. Um, like for example, the business leaders and the VPs I mentioned in the introduction. How how do they usually find their way to you in the first place, you know, marketing-wise?

Susan Barber 8:28

Well, I have been marketing since the beginning. So the writing really helped me be consistent. And then I hired a virtual assistant who has been wonderful and has been with me almost this whole time to help me put a more of a brand out there. But the interesting thing was that marketing for me was a little scary again, you know, a little bit of hiding happening. And so what I did in the beginning was take other people's articles and other things that I'd heard about or quotes or whatever. But I never put my face out there, I never put my videos out there at all for probably that five-year period. And yeah, I could really kick myself now because, you know, that was just missing out on opportunities for people to connect with me and get to know me better. But that shift around five years was a big aha moment of Sue. You now have all the stuff you've written at that point in time that would have been, you know, close to when the book was going to be coming out after that. And I'd already written, you know, the draft of that. So I knew like I had so much stuff. And so I put myself in my own little Facebook group and did lives by myself just to practice, getting used to being on video and seeing how it felt and getting used to talking about the book because I knew that I would have to do that a lot when it was coming out. And that's, you know, really how I got started. So me putting myself out there at that point in time was just me saying, you know what, imperfect action. I'm gonna just start putting things out there. I'm gonna try things, I'm gonna experiment. And if it works, great. And if it doesn't, that's okay. So I had to get comfortable with this may not go well, but it's okay. And I'm gonna learn from it. And I really try to think about everything I do in that way, and I teach my clients to do that too, because of course they're doing scary things as well.

Pedro Stein 10:17

Okay. Now let's pretend I'm one of those business business leaders, the VPs, or your your ideal client profile. Let's say I'm one of those, okay? And I watch one of your videos, I'm like, well, this seems pretty cool. I want to talk to her, right? And we ended up talking, we see alignment on the call. I ended up converting to a client, right? And I'm in the onboarding process. So walk me through what working with you looks like, right? The per from the client's perspective, and what are potentially the outcomes I would get.

Susan Barber 10:51

So I usually like to start with kind of I'll call it ways of working together, but you know, how we're gonna be in a partnership together. Because I think a lot of people come into coaching with it a little apprehensive, maybe. There's the unknown of how this is gonna work. And I think a lot of people think of therapy first because that's all they know. And so I want to reassure them that that's not what this is, and that we are an equal partnership. We both have a voice here, and the goal is for them to come in with what they want to share. So I like to walk through that as kind of a foundational conversation first so that they know what that looks like. And then depending on what we're doing, so they may have like one of my 90-day programs, or they may do something that's longer, like a six-month program or a group program. And when we do that, I want to really have the conversation with them about what are the outcomes we're trying to drive. So if we know what the outcomes are and we know where they are today, then what we're trying to solve for is that gap in the middle, right? And if we understand where we're going, uh, you know, I want to know like what does success look like for them in their mind, right? Is it a plan? Is it starting to really change the perception of them? Is it starting to gain confidence? And it's interesting, right? Because they probably have a little um, they're a little unsure at that point in time. How can she really do this? How is she gonna help me really do this? And so I try to lean on authenticity, vulnerability, and just trusting myself because I don't necessarily know where we're gonna go, right? Because we they may share something with me that they never shared before three months in, and it may change the way we go. And so I just remain open. I try to meet people wherever they are and just be there with them because things change all the time. They may have a new boss that shows up or something else changes in the organization. So I just try to be there for whatever it is, but I'm constantly thinking about those original plans that we had. What are the goals? What are the outcomes we're driving towards? And how can we get there in the best way for them?

Pedro Stein 12:56

Okay. Well, some powerful reminders, right? First of all, I love the fact that you told me they feel like apprehensive about coaching. Sometimes people have this misconception of what coaching really entails, what it is, right? And they're like, Are you gonna give me all the answers? How's this gonna play out? You know, uh, is there a game plan? Well, sometimes, yeah, but we need to peel off the onion sometimes and get to the real intention. You already know that. I'm not gonna preach to the choir here, but also I feel like the the need to give a shout out to one of our past guests, his business name, believe it or not, is not therapy. I love that. That's that's Colin McDonald's great guest, okay? Great guy, and uh, because people have this misconception, like you know, it's this therapy, right? Now, what I would love to understand, because it seems like your work is pretty involved, right? We're talking about the delivery, we're talking about the hat of the CEO and all of that, what it entails. And on top of it, you're having fun doing this, so you had to set up some boundaries, right? So, how do you think about managing your time and energy so the business doesn't start owning you, for example?

Susan Barber 14:06

That's a great point. That took me a little bit of time to figure out too. So I probably worked uh just like I was in corporate working a bunch of hours, I dragged that into this world, even though I told myself that's not what I wanted. I felt like I had to, especially at the beginning. Uh, but probably I think three years ago, I started changing my schedule. So every morning, uh, I usually don't start until 10 or 11. And the intent there is to give me time to work out, to do whatever I need to do for myself or for, you know, I have two pets to take care of in the morning, every, you know, every morning and doing all of that stuff. And then just thinking about, you know, where am I at, what's coming next, what do I want to work on. And that gives me some space and time to do that, or if I want to write. Um, I'm a morning writer. I I can write really late at night too, uh, but I prefer to do it in the morning. I think that's when I'm most open and most creative. And so that gives me space to do that. And that was important to me to do that. And I also have scheduled like a CEO day once a month, and that day is just blocked for me to do what I need to do, check on how things are going. So that's where that whole shift of being a CEO of your business and not just a coach who has a business was really a big, big change for me. And I knew that my schedule had to support that.

Pedro Stein 15:27

Okay. First note by talking with you, start journaling, Pedro. Start writing. Second, start working out, Pedro. Stop with the excuses, right? Nice, thank you. I I love that. I just wrote that now. I have a question because I feel the need to tap into your experience, right? And the topic is kind of hot. I love it. And it's not about hard numbers here, okay? It's more about the mindset behind it, which is pricing, right? So for coaches, especially in the early days, there's a lot of self-worth tied to pricing. Like, am I charging enough? Am I not charging enough? It's just my time, right? And you see the calendar open, you're like, uh, maybe I could turn my prices a little bit lower so I can get more people. You know, all that scarcity mindset behind it. So, how do you approach that topic now? Pricing. And what did you have to learn the hard way to get where you are right now?

Susan Barber 16:27

Well, in the beginning, I gave way too much away for sure, uh, with because that was kind of the model I was following, and like giveaway coaching sessions to, you know, build the trust and all of that. And then you can start to charge them more. But I found that that is a challenge in some ways because then people are used to not paying much. They're not paying anything in some cases in the beginning, and then you're trying to convert them into a much bigger number. It just didn't work for me. And I know there's a lot of coaches who do it and it works for them, but it just didn't work for me. And so over time, I just kept looking at things and studying other people and what they were doing, what they were charging. Because it, you know, when you're working by yourself, you don't really have a sense of how much anyone else. I just wanted to know like how much are other people charging so I could just see, am I in the ballpark? Right? Am I too low? Am I too high? Not to match them, but just to get a sense. And so I spent a lot of time on that. But I would say over the last two years, speaking more has given me more confidence to charge more and to recognize that, you know, I have 25 years of business experience. I have two books now, I have a podcast that's got 210 episodes. Like I'm not a newbie, right? I'm not somebody who just came out of the gate. And now I have 10 years of coaching experience too. So I've done things in companies that I never dreamed I would do. And so that has all come together of saying, you know what, you have a lot more worth than maybe you thought you did in the beginning. You probably actually had it then too. You just didn't realize it. And I needed to just own that and step into it in a much bigger way. So am I gonna be a fit for everybody? Can they all afford me? Maybe not, but you know, at least we have the conversation and maybe there's something else I can do that supports them, you know, give them other resources or something else.

Pedro Stein 18:16

Hmm, okay. Well, first of all, 210 episodes. You can have the mic, please. Interview me. What am I doing here, right? You're all good. Okay. Now, I love the the mindset behind pricing and how open you are about that. You know, I think at the end of the day, vulnerability is a key asset for a true coach. I always say that because I really believe that. Because if you're gonna ask hard questions from your coaches, it's only fair you can meet them in the middle and you're vulnerable as as as much as them, right? It's easier to create a connection at the end of the day. Now, yeah, looking forward a bit, Susan, what's the direction you're aiming this business towards? Are you thinking more about growth, leverage, building a team, or refining what already works? You know, what feels most exciting right now?

Susan Barber 19:07

Well, right now, I so I just launched my second book in October uh this past year. And because of all of the work I've been doing in there, I want to do more in companies because I'm trying to scale the information out there in a bigger way. I don't want to scale and have a huge company of people necessarily. I want to be able to get visibility, you know, all of the things around influence and impact out there into companies and help those leaders be able to do more, speak up, recognize that they matter, that they have a lot of value to offer. And so to me, the best way to start doing that is to really, I'll say, focus my programs in a way that really helps people see them, that they're easy to do, that they can start to do them quickly. And we have different levels of doing them. But my goal is to work with teams and help that whole team learn how to speak up and talk for themselves and show their value. And then maybe in some companies, you know, I could do the whole company. Uh, but I really want to do more to get that out there. And I've done it in small companies where I've where I've taken multiple cohorts of leaders through this program that I put together and built from kind of scratch and help them start to play bigger. And it was really interesting to see how they all gained this confidence and started speaking up. And many of them got promoted not only once but twice. And so that is real true metrics to show like this can change how people show up. And ultimately that changes the creativity, the ideas, the decision making. All of the things can move faster when you're not holding on to people who are scared to talk and who are afraid of the spotlight. They're more apt to help you grow the company, right? And not be in the background.

Pedro Stein 20:53

Okay. Afraid, right? It's fear, it's always that key word that's holding people back. It's afraid of what's potentially going to happen, right? Yeah, you know, and even when things are going well, there's always something under construction, you know. So, what's the main thing you're actively working on or trying to improve in the business right now?

Susan Barber 21:14

You know, it's it's always focus, I think, because you know, as an entrepreneur, and I think everybody who is one or is a coach or has their own business, you get pulled into a lot of opportunities, I'll say, that could be cool, could be fun, but you have to really stay, keep your eye on the ball. Like, where am I really trying to go? And is this going to help me get there? And so that is a constant challenge for me to just make sure I'm not getting too far off course and make sure that I'm still focusing on the big goal that I have. And so that's to me, big challenge for me.

Pedro Stein 21:50

Pulling the right lever, right? So we don't get lost in the noise. That's a classic. Okay. Now, you've been in around long enough to see trends coming. Go right, so people give business advice nonstop. We were just talking about noise, right? Especially online. So, what's something you hear repeated a lot that you think people misunderstand or even overvalue?

Susan Barber 22:16

I mean, I think with coaching, there's a lot of I'll say big name coaching people out there who make it sound like just do this program and you're gonna make a million dollars or 50 million dollars or whatever the number is. And so it feels by the way they talk about it, that it's real. And for many people, it could be right. But I think for the person who's just getting started, to hear that is a little, I'll say scary again because it feels so big that they just don't know that it's possible. So to me, I I try to help people lean into what is it that you're good at? What are the things that are your strengths? How can you leverage those and stay true to yourself? Because if you try to be like everybody else, then you're just kind of getting lost in the crowd. And so for me, like standing on the foundation about visibility, and that is really my platform and what I focus on, I think sets me apart from other but other people because I've been doing stuff online since 20, whatever, 16. So I pretty much have that cornered for corporate corporate visibility is my thing. And so when anybody searches for that, my goal is, you know, I should be coming up first or pretty close to first. And so the thing about consistency is important to be true to yourself, be authentic, but just trust that you know the right things to do, and you don't have to be like everybody else. Please don't be like everybody else. Do what really matters to you because if you're just doing what everybody else is doing, you're gonna burn out and you're not gonna really feel passionate about it. And to me, that's a good way to stop, you know, altogether. And there's so many more important things you want to do.

Pedro Stein 23:55

Well, you started in 2016, right? So, how did that play down the COVID at 2020 event, right? How did that affect your business? I got curious right now.

Susan Barber 24:04

You know, it really didn't impact it in the way that I think a lot of people I have a lot of most everybody I had on was online. So that was fine. And then the companies I was working with, we did things remotely with them too. Um, but I was in the middle of kind of editing my book at that point. So it was great in that way where I had time to focus because anything that did drop off, I just uh supplemented it with editing time for that. But yeah, I mean, it was a really scary time and it I think all of us went through that initial, oh, it's two weeks, oh, it's two months time, and we thought it would pass quickly. And then, of course, as it continued, that makes it really hard because nobody can necessarily have the crystal ball to know what it's gonna look like at the end of the day. And so that at that time I really did lean on my coach. I was part of a small group with her, and she said some important things to us, which is you need to be the light for yourself, your family, and your clients. And I really took that to heart because I think it's hard in those moments, like I didn't know what was gonna happen either. But I've always been the person that said, you know what, we're gonna figure it out, we're gonna get through this and try to operate from that, you know, after you go through many corporate changes, you're used to change. And so I just kind of leaned into that some more and felt like I'm gonna be there for my clients, whatever they need. I'm gonna be here and support them, and we're gonna figure this out, whatever that looks like on the other side.

Pedro Stein 25:34

Appreciate that. And um, on the flip side, back to the advice giving we were talking about like what's something boring or not as hyped that you wish more people actually paid attention to.

Susan Barber 25:49

I mean, I'm gonna include myself in this too, because I think uh metrics is important, data is important, and I'd say that is one of the things that challenges me, and just because administration stuff is not my favorite thing to do. I'd much rather be talking to people. And so I think it's important though. I wish I would have even at the beginning just started to track things a bit differently, like how many clients, how many promotions, all that. I mean, I have it in my head, but it's it's not as crisp as it could be then, right? If I had all of the data for each year, what happened? That just, you know, is not my favorite thing to do. So if people really have a mindset for that, uh, you should definitely do it. Because even I used to write in my journal every day too. And I kind of, you know, have days where I don't do it and stuff. And it's kind of interesting to go back and read for all these years back what I was thinking, what I was feeling, how I was feeling about all this stuff. And I think those are good reflection opportunities for everyone to go through and kind of learn through what happened and recognize that even though we might have been feeling unsure and scared and all of that stuff, we made it through. We did it. And I think that's an important moment for people to go back because now you can tell a different story about that time because so much time has passed, you can look at it with different, a different lens. And so I love to do reflection a lot.

Pedro Stein 27:16

I think that's so important with clients and myself because you can see it in a different way, it's just a whole different experience, then right, you know, and before we close this out, and we're gonna have all the links in the description and all of that. But if there's something you feel like the need to promote or the book or even uh, you know, whatever is looking cool for you right now, exciting, this is the time to do it. So not sure where should people go to connect with you? You have you have, you know, the the spotlight right now.

Susan Barber 27:47

Oh, thanks. LinkedIn, I would love to connect with anybody who hears me on the show here. I'm happy to connect with you, share resources. I write uh a lot of stuff out there, as we talked about earlier. The two books, The Visibility Factor and Your Journey to Visibility Workbook, are both out on all the online sites, so you can find them. You can go to my website though and find all the information about them and a lot of resources. The workbook has a lot of resources. I put a lot of stuff in there, a lot of frameworks, so that's a lot of fun for people who want to spend time and can pick and choose where they want to go and what they want to work on. And then, of course, the podcast, the Visibility Factor Podcast, is uh everywhere online. So I'd love to have you listen. If you need some help around finding your own value, influence, communication, uh more visibility for you to get noticed and get new opportunities.

Pedro Stein 28:38

Okay. You know, there were a few moments from this chat today that really stood out to me. I would say when we were talking about the origin of the story, and you're like, yeah, this could be fun. I think I love that intention behind it, right? It's uh it's like, oh, I'm gonna make some money out of it, I'm gonna do blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, I pivoted and up. Then you know, this could be fun. I I just love the simplicity of it and how we need to be reminded of that, you know, having joy of doing what we do, you know. I think that's that's a pretty powerful reminder for itself. Now, also, I really think it was super important that you mentioned it. It took five years to see yourself as a business owner because I see a lot of coaches wearing a lot of hats, but sometimes they forget about the CEO, the business development side, right? They see themselves in the practice, they see themselves getting energy from you know a uh a one-on-one session or a one-on-one, however, you want to play that out. But sometimes they they they set aside the business part, which is key, right? To maintain you in the business and not a hobby, right? You need to generate revenue at the end of the day. So, yeah, appreciate that. And also the metrics, right? And data, I think that is so important, especially when we're talking about marketing. I'll give you an example. Like, I see a lot of coaches in the space complaining, oh, I don't have enough engagement, I don't see a lot of people commenting or liking my posts. That's one thing, but that's raw data, right? Because sometimes your ICP or ideal client profile, he is not engaging directly because he's not gonna raise his hand and say, hey, I'm burned out, you know, and expose himself. So sometimes there is some people that are watching and you know, and they're gonna reach out to us when the time is right. But it's not just about the number, it's about the understanding behind it. And the data will show you conversion, we'll show you the booked calls, discovery calls, however you want to call it. So I think that's a very important reminder, too. And this is my long-winded way of saying that I really appreciated taking the time and being open with us, Susan. It was great having you on. Thanks for having me. It was great.

Davis Nguyen 30:49

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe to YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This conversation was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. To learn more about Purple Circle, our community, and how we can help you grow your business, visit joinpurplecircle.com.