From Passion to Profitable Coaching: Hazel Russo’s 25-Year Journey

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets, host Pedro is joined by executive coach and coaching supervisor Hazel Russo (EMCC) for a deep, honest conversation about what it really takes to build a sustainable coaching career over 25+ years.

Hazel opens up her journey from having no clear career direction as a young adult to eventually discovering coaching through personal development work. What started as curiosity about people—how they think, behave, and grow—evolved into a lifelong profession focused on transformation, leadership, and meaningful change.

She shares how early experiences, including volunteering with adults learning to read and write, shaped her deep appreciation for human stories and development. From there, Hazel walks through the pivotal moment she discovered coaching and realized, “this is it—this is what I want to do.”

The episode then dives into the real transition most coaches struggle with: moving from passion to profession. Hazel and Pedro discuss the shift from “I help people” to “I run a coaching business,” including the uncomfortable but necessary steps of marketing, networking, and self-identification as a coach.

Connect with

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hazelrusso/
Website: https://www.hazelrusso.com/

Transcript

Hazel Russo 0:00

I guess something I've been clear about throughout my whole time as a coach is yes, it's one thing to be a coach, but you're absolutely right. How do I make this a business? How do I take it forwards? I had to do things that don't come naturally to me, like marketing, like going to networking groups and sharing with people that I was a coach, kind of publicizing myself and taking the business out. So that was definitely had always been something that I knew I needed to take on. So that was the starting place. I think one strategy I found really useful is when people would ask me what I did, even when I was doing other jobs, but I'd started coaching, the first thing I would say is that I'm a coach. Oh, okay, what's coaching? And then I would talk to them about coaching, what it was, and the kinds of benefits.

Davis Nguyen 0:35

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is David Swin, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, go discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro 1:06

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro, and today I'm joined by Hazel Russo, an EMCC accredited executive coach and coaching supervisor who has spent over 25 years taking leaders in powerful journeys of transformation across sectors from energy and finance to health and technology. Hazel created Illumination, an innovative coaching game that's being used by organizations throughout the UK to make problem-solving, team building, and a leadership development both thought-provoking and fun. Hazel's approach combines her credentials as an EMCC senior practitioner and ILM level 7 coaching supervisor with practical tools that help leaders and teams gain the clarity, confidence, and courage needed to make better decisions and take bold action. Her coaching programs delivered over 6 to 12 months focus on sustainable transformation that moves beyond surface level changes to create lasting impact in how leaders show up and achieve their most important goals. Welcome to the show, Hazel.

Hazel Russo 2:11

Thank you, Pedro. Thank you for inviting me.

Pedro 2:13

Yeah, it's great to have you, you know, a long timer, 26 years in the game. Okay. And I would love to backtrack a little, you know, back to the origin story. Because every coach has that moment where they look at their life and say, Yeah, I guess this is what I'm doing now. Right. So when was for you, Hazel?

Hazel Russo 2:30

Well, actually, if we go right back to the beginning, when I was a child, I had no idea what I wanted to do when I grew up. And people would ask me, what are you going to be when you grow up? And I had no idea. But something I was clear about is that I'd always been interested in what makes people tick. Like why how do people work? How do people and why do people think the way they think? And I think that was because from also being a child, I was very conscious of myself trying to kind of squash down some feelings, emotions at times to make myself fit in or to be a good girl. And so as I was growing up, I was really conscious of having all these kind of doubts and insecurities about myself that were going on on the inside, whereas on the outside I was doing quite well. So I think from a young age, I probably had something that we might call imposter phenomenon or imposter syndrome today. So I didn't know what I wanted to do, went through school, went through university, and when I graduated, I decided because I don't know what to do, I'm going to take some time to just see what happens. So I didn't go into a particular career path. I took some time out. I took some part-time work, I did lots of different volunteering things. And one of the things I did was as part of a volunteering role, I supported adults who couldn't read and write. And it was the first time really that I'd sat down with somebody and listened to their story and was completely humbled by the sorts of things that people were sharing with me. So I had found school fairly easy and I'd never really thought before about what it would be like for somebody who couldn't read or write. And they would share strategies with me, like saying to somebody, I've forgotten my glasses, can you read this for me so that people wouldn't discover that they couldn't read? And I found it a really humbling experience and also a real privilege to be able to make a difference so that I could listen to them and support them to learn to read. It was really, really fulfilling. So that was the first time I started to feel like, okay, there's something here around making a difference, something about working with people. That was one-to-one. So, you know, you can hear how it's sort of starting to develop. And not long after that, I still didn't know what a career was might be look like. I looked at things like social work, I looked at teaching, but none of them felt right. And so scroll forward a few years, I'd been traveling and thought that traveling would give me the answer, but it didn't. So when I came back, I decided to engage in lots of personal development work because I thought I really want to sort myself out. I feel as though if I were able to improve my own confidence, if I were able to really get clear about who I am somehow, I could find the thing I wanted to do. So I got myself a therapist, I did lots of training, I read self-help books, I kind of did all sorts of things. And around this time, a friend invited me to a workshop, um, personal development workshop, which I went to, and the people running it were talking about something called coaching. And I'd never heard of coaching at this point. This is about 30 years ago. So I'd never heard of coaching, didn't know what it was. But then when they did a demonstration, I thought, that's me. That's the kind of conversation that I've been having with going back to teaching people to learn to read and write, the kinds of conversations I was having with people in my life. And in the jobs I was doing at that time, I was always interested in people, curious, because I wanted to understand how they worked. And there would be times when I was supporting people. So that's the first time I heard of coaching. That's when I knew it was for me. Engaged in that personal development for quite some time. So I really learned how to, I experienced the benefits of coaching myself, and I learned to listen really powerfully, and also to learn how the kinds of questions that might make a difference could come into my mind as I was hop having a conversation with somebody. So that was that was the point at which I knew that that was for me. And then once I completed that personal development work, I thought, actually, I think I want to do this as a job. Could this be a job? Um, so I started a couple of friends of mine were setting up a company, and I just asked if I could use their company as an experiment. Um, and my friend said yes. So I uh started coaching him just to see if this could work, like in in the what I called the, let's say, the real world or the world of work, and went on to actually work with him for a number of years, and he referred me to others. So very quickly I thought, yes, this is for me. I went on then to do a professional qualification. So there was quite a long lead-in time when I discovered coaching and then went on to become a coach myself, which yes was around about 20 something years ago.

Pedro 6:36

I love the origin story, okay? I love the fact that you started by not knowing what you want to do in the future as a little kid, you know. And uh down the road you're like supporting adults who couldn't read and write. And just for you to mentioning how they created this little ways to, you know, not show their their embarrassed by not being able to do so. Oh my god, that is so humble, humbling, right? I mean, just thinking about how we judge people so fast, right? And we don't know about their own situation sometimes. So it's good to put that in perspective. So thanks for that. Okay. Now I'm curious about one thing, right? You started experimenting in your friend's business, but there was a point, and this is the shift that I really like to ask you, is that shift from I'm helping people to I'm building a real business around this, right? Because that's a different hat. Usually we're we're we're talking about picking up the coaching hat. I want to know when that happens when you picked up the CEO hat, too. You know, I'm a business owner. I'm not sure if that's the first invoice, the first paying client, you know. How did that play out for you?

Hazel Russo 7:40

I think definitely the first paying client. So as the first time I was paid for being a coach was a real breakthrough for me because I've done having done years of kind of coaching people, supporting people, but to be paid for it absolutely felt like a milestone and really exciting. And I threw myself into it. So I guess something I've been clear about throughout my whole time as a coach is yes, it's one thing to be a coach, but you're absolutely right. How do I make this a business? How do I take it forwards? I had to do things that don't come naturally to me, like marketing, like going to networking groups and sharing with people that I was a coach, kind of publicizing myself and taking the business out. So that was definitely had always been something that I knew I needed to take on. So that was the starting place. I think one strategy I found really useful is when people would ask me what I did, even when I was doing other jobs, but I'd started coaching, the first thing I would say is that I'm a coach. Oh, okay, what's coaching? And then I would talk to them about coaching, what it was, and the kinds of benefits that people could experience from coaching. So as soon as I started earning money from coaching, I was clear I was a coach, and that's how I would present myself, how I would talk about myself. And I think that really made a difference. It made a difference to me because I felt, yeah, this is who I am, and I'm building my business by telling people I'm a coach. So that was definitely played a key part really early on.

Pedro 8:56

It's like an identity shift, right? You're you're not shying away from talking, even with the family, right? Hey, what do you do? What are you doing? It's like I'm a coach. You know, it's like accept first, you gotta convince yourself, right? For then you can convince others. So yeah, that's a natural path. I love it. Now, I want to ask you another thing because in the coaching space, especially in the early days, we try to help everyone sometimes, right? Try to embrace the entire world, like just want to, you know, have the first clients and and like you said, you had your own friend that you were trying to help him and see how that played out. But along the years, and after you got rolling, who are the people that kept showing up? You know, the ones you realize, okay, this is my tribe.

Hazel Russo 9:37

I would say I have a number of tribes. So my coaching journey may not be typical, um, because people say fairly early on, what's your niche? Who's your client base? What's your niche? So because my friend had set up a company, I started being referred to other kind of startup MDs. So those were one kind of group of people that were showing up. Another group of people that were showing up, I was in part of my networking, I was able to get myself onto a national project, a national coaching project. And I was part of a team of coaches coaching senior leaders on industrial plants around the UK. So then I started to gain some real skills and confidence in coaching senior leadership teams. Like what are the challenges around leadership within organizations? So the kind of things that people would experience both at senior level, but also people moving from, let's say, team leader or manager level to a more senior role. So I developed experience and expertise coaching people, transitioning into leadership, up from leadership roles into senior leadership roles. So that was another tribe of people that started showing up. And then something in the last 10 years or so, I've been coaching a lot of people who are in difficulty professionally. They're going through some sort of challenge professionally. I coach a lot of people that work in healthcare in the UK and who are kind of struggling around training. So doctors who are struggling with training, healthcare professionals who are facing difficulties. So that's another area that I've developed some expertise and experience in. And each of those has evolved. And I think the thing that might be useful for people listening is it's because I was telling people I was a coach that I started, I started following my interests. So who were the people that I enjoyed working with that I felt actually, yes, this is these are the groups of people I enjoy working. I'd like to work with more people like this. So then when people said I was a coach, when I people asked me and I said I was a coach, I would then say, yeah, and I coach leaders. So I've got a lot of experience coaching leaders now, or I coach people are set setting up startups, particularly in the tech area and coaching them around vision. So I would start to kind of weave that into how I describe myself. So I'd say three main tribes, which came out of my own experience and the way I would share who I am as a coach with others. I think something else that maybe is important, certainly feels important in my journey, is it's always been important to me to walk the talk. So I knew I would wanted to be a coach full-time, which meant that when I was working full-time at one point on a different job, I made a decision to leave that job and really go for my coaching. Now, I was really clear, unless I'm taking the kinds of risks that feel important for me to take my business forward, how can I coach people who are starting up their own businesses? How can I coach people who are taking what feels like a risk to move to the next level for them? So it's always felt important to me to yeah, walk the talk. And I'm coaching people around lots of the things that I myself have experienced. So I feel a kind of integrity around that.

Pedro 12:30

Okay. Now let me ask you this because uh in the pre-interview we did, we talked about in the intro too, we talked about elimination, right? Which is a if you're listening and you don't know, that's a board game that you develop, right, Hazel. Now, how did that start out?

Hazel Russo 12:44

Yes, so thank you. That's a whole other story. But uh but I'm gonna go back to childhood again, actually. So I remember the day I stopped playing. Uh I was about eight years old. I was on holiday with my family in the UK, and I'm the eldest of three. So we were on holiday at a place by the sea where the the tide goes out a really long way. So you can kind of see all this sand and then sludgy mud going out to the sea. My brother and sister were playing by the edge of the sea, and I was just about to run over to them to join in when I suddenly had the thought, well, what if I run all the way over to them and then they don't want to play with me? And so in that moment, I decided to stay where I was, to stay near my mum, and I decided to become a kind of good girl. I became a sensible big sister. And so from then on, when we were at home, my brother and sister would be playing, and I would have thoughts like, Well, that that's what they're doing, because I don't do that now. And I became quite a serious child, I would say, at home, mainly at home. And maybe life I worked hard, I studied hard, you know, I became quite studious. So roll forwards then to when I was doing the personal development that I mentioned earlier. One of the programs was a leadership program where we had to come up with a project that was involving community. And I came up with the idea of a treasure trail with people in my local woods, where I would invite in the end, it was 10 people I invited to become characters in this trail. We invited 50 people to come and take part, and we asked everyone who came to take part to have a question, to bring a question that they had about their lives. We gave them a map, we divided them into small groups, and then myself and the character my my character people were placed around the woods on the route, and then people in the small groups would follow the route and they'd meet four or five characters who invited them to do an activity that was designed to stimulate new thinking. So it could be something like one of the characters was a neighbour of mine who decided he wanted to be a panda. So he dressed up as a panda, bearing in mind this is a very popular wood public park in London. He decided to be a character, was a graphic designer by trade. So the activity he thought of was to ask people to draw a picture that represented where they saw themselves currently, and then draw a different picture which represented where they wanted to be in relation to their question, and then find things on the ground like stones or sticks that could join the two things together and create a bridge. They were really simple activities. So each group did about four or five of those. We all came back together, and when we were back together, people came up to me and said it was one of the most powerful things they'd ever done. Like it just gave people a sort of immersive experience of something that made a difference to them. And at this point, I wasn't a coach yet, but I thought this could become something. I feel like this could be something. So then again, scroll forwards when I was a coach, two things happened, and this came out of me talking about being a coach, by the way. So I'm just gonna remind everybody how important that is. So I met somebody in a job I had at that point who had created a board game, and I said, Oh, yeah, I did this thing once. I thought maybe it could become something, and I thought, well, maybe it could become a board game. And then a friend of mine at the time I discovered was an artist, so I asked her if she'd be willing to work with me to develop this idea. So it took a couple of years to develop the idea to turn the original idea that was the treasure trail in the woods into what has since become lumination. I trialled it initially with friends and family, then I took it out to coaches I knew, then I took it into organizations, so I tested it in a university careers department, I tested it with a business school, I got kind of consistently good feedback. Um, so that's when I kind of thought, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna launch this. So that's the story of how Lumination came to be. And for me, it was about reigniting that sense of play and playfulness that I'd lost. I felt I'd lost way back when I was eight years old on the beach.

Pedro 16:28

I love that. Okay, now playing parts, gave them a map. Take it easy, Hazel. I'm a Dungeons and Dragons fan. Okay. So I'm seeing where you're going with this. Okay, I love it. The role-playing game. I I I'm a huge, huge fan. Now I want to shift gears for a second and talk a little bit more about business right now, okay? Specifically about the marketing side. So you mentioned three tribes, right? And you also mentioned the board game. So my question to you is how do people usually find you, you know, marketing-wise?

Hazel Russo 17:00

I'm quite active on LinkedIn, so people often find me through LinkedIn. I do a fair amount of networking, so I go to kind of network networking in person, also online things when I can. I have other people who talk in particular about illumination, but a lot of the coaching work I've got now and have has come through other coaches. So I'm really in touch with a lot of coaches. I engage with coaches, I'm in development groups with coaches, I go to training programs where coaches are there, and I find that's a really good way to gain new business, to develop the business. It's staying visible, which doesn't necessarily come naturally to me. So that you know, I'm naturally more of a kind of, I'd say introvert type person, but I really enjoy engaging with fellow coaches to be able to talk about it, and lots of my workers come that way. Kind of might have the idea that other coaches are like my competition, but actually other coaches are often look, we've got this project, would you be interested in coming to work with us on this project? It's more like that. So I really think there's huge value in keeping a conversation alive with other coaches.

Pedro 18:04

Sometimes I feel like seeing people as competition, sometimes it's more like about the lens, right? The scarcity mindset, like, hey, you're gonna take a client from me. And when you have the abundance mindset, you're more like, could this person help me if I reach, I don't know, capacity? And I could use someone to to help with the client and all that. It's just a different way to frame things at the end of the day. This is just my my take on it. But I wanna do a little exercise, right? I want to pretend I'm your ideal client profile, your avatar, okay. And you can pick the service that feels like it makes more sense to you or it's your bread and butter, okay? Even if it's the game. Because my whole point here is to pretend we I'm in during the sales process, okay, and I've entered in contact with you. We saw there's alignment, okay? And I'm like, hey, I want to work with you. We got into common grounds, convert into a client. Like I said, you can pick the link. So my question to you is can you give a bit a point of view of a client being on board? How would it does it look like to work with your company, for example?

Hazel Russo 19:06

Okay, so if you were an Illumination client, you might be either a coach or someone who's running some coach training, or you might be someone within an organization who's like a learning and development professional, and you're looking for a new way to engage people around coaching in your organization. So we would have an initial conversation about what that might look like. So, what are some of the things that you're looking to do as you roll out coaching? What level of engagement do you currently have around coaching? We'd have an initial meeting around, yeah, what do you do already? What's missing? What are you hoping to achieve? What kind of results are you looking for? And with lumination, I often give people the opportunity to experience it kind of on the call. So I'll say, you know, if you want to pick a card, you can pick a card from the game. So you kind of get a flavour of the playfulness. And then I would walk through some of the things that people already do around illumination. So some of the kind of results that people get already, some of the ways that people use illumination in their organizations. So for example, people use it to support new coaches to build their confidence. People use it to make coaching available to people who might not otherwise have access to coaching. People use it for problem solving. So I will often give some tips and pointers around how I think it could work really well for your audience, let's say you're that person, the kinds of things that you might find it works well for. And also the kind of things that it might be less useful for. It might not solve that problem. It could support with this one. So that's the kind of conversation. And then with illumination, it always involves having some training as well, some training around how to use it well. So I would talk about who would need to be trained, how many people would you want to have trained, when might you want that to happen. And I offer ongoing support around use of illumination. So it's really important to me that it's used well. Similarly with coaching, like I really quality coaching is really important to me in being a coach supervisor. You know, it's really important to me that coaches practice ethically, that they know what they're doing, that they know when they might be at the edge of their competence. So for me, illumination is a similar kind of conversation as well.

Pedro 21:17

Okay. I mean, your work seems pretty hands-on, so I'm gonna throw you a curveball now because I feel like you're very, you know, connected to other coaches. And you know, coaches, they sometimes they uh most of the time I would say they advocate against against burnout, right? That's one of the big ones. But at the same time, they're wearing all the hats, right? We mentioned before it's like they're the marketer, they're the sales peep salesperson. They are they're delivering the coaching itself, the practice, right? And one thing that I like to ask is like, how do you think about capacity? So don't stretch yourself too thin and burn out yourself in the process, you know?

Hazel Russo 21:52

Yeah, it's a great question. And it is one. Funnily enough, over the last year I've been really grappling with that question as I look to expand the business. So Something that I'm doing. So I kind of contract out various pieces of the work. So I have an accountant. I have people that look after my kind of website. And I'm now just getting into the area where I'm looking to get assistance. I'm looking to take on other coaches. So it's that kind of how do I scale things exactly as you're asking me, so that I'm not doing it all myself. I'm beginning to stretch. And in the last year, literally, this is just where I am right now. So I'm just thinking about how to scale, how to engage others. I've just taken on my first associate. I'm going to be training others in how they can train people. So yeah, I've thought about it a lot. And I've definitely experienced some times when I was doing too much. Yeah, for sure. So I think it's really important. And it's part of walking the talk, isn't it? It's coach a lot of people around burnout. So how can I do that if I am not myself looking after myself and my own well-being? Absolutely. 100%.

Pedro 22:51

I love the reminder. You know, I have another question for you about a hard topic in the in the space. And we're not talking about hard numbers, okay? But it's about pricing. And you've been in the game like what, 26 years? And I think the pricing subject is one of the one of those that, especially in the service industry, and let's talk about coaching, it's very tied to self-worth sometimes because it's your time, right? And I see a lot of coaches wrestling with that because they're like, oh, am I charging too much? Am I not charging enough? You know? So were there any lessons along the way that shaped how you landed where you are right now? You know, how do you think about it today?

Hazel Russo 23:27

Yeah, for sure. And I definitely started out not charging enough at the beginning. I think that's probably fairly typical and normal for a new coach to think I mustn't charge too much because I want the work. And in many ways, that's great because in fact, then you do build your experience, kind of cut your teeth as a coach. I started to learn a bit more about pricing and value when I was taken on on part as part of bigger projects. That helped me see what are the kind of the market rates for coaches working in the kind of corporate and organizational sector. So that was useful for me. I learned something from that and charged, you know, make started to double my own rates at that point. Um, and something I've learned even in the last few years is really, I've been coaching a long time. I recognize the skill and value I have as a coach. You know, I've got a lot of experience as a coach. Um, and around illumination, actually, again, I was starting to get feedback from people I really respect who were saying, Hazel, you're giving this away. Like it's what you've created is a coaching process. It's not a board game, it's a coaching process. So that again was a really useful shift for me to think about what's the value of this? And with myself as a coach, the way I've grappled with that is when I've, you know, let's say I doubled my prices. And at first I felt nervous. I thought, you know, maybe people won't want to do that, or they'll think, oh no, you're too expensive. Now, if I thought that myself, yes, people did say that to me. So I had to do some work around really embodying that this is what I'm worth as a coach, so that I felt confident that I could say this in the way that I started off feeling confident that I could say I was a coach. I could start off saying, yes, this is what I charge. If you want to work with me, it'll cost you this. So that I felt confident. And then people didn't bat an eyelid then. So there's something about getting really confident with the price and the value that you recognize you're bringing. Absolutely.

Pedro 25:12

I love how you tie that to the value, not necessarily, you know, because that's a I see a lot of coaches that they're sometimes they're charged by the hour, you know, and they're they're like in a way making themselves look like a commodity, right? Because it's easy to compare their hourly rate when with other industries that have nothing to do with it. But when you compare the value and the outcome, then it's not that as simple as it is to compare to others hourly. So I I really like that, you know, the the reminder you brought. Now, I'm curious where you're where you're taking all this, you know, Hazel. You kind of mentioned already, like looking to expand and all that, but looking ahead, where do you see the business going? You know, are you thinking about scaling, hiring even more people? Is there a next step you're excited about?

Hazel Russo 25:54

Yes, definitely. So around lumination, definitely, I'm expanding and scaling that and taking on people. And um, I'm I really see that as developing a lot over the next five years. I want to really expand Lumination, different versions of Lumination for it to reach more organizations, because it's making coaching available in a different way, in a very accessible way, and it's supporting coaches to build their own skill set. So that's one piece. And then with the coaching itself, I think it again this connects to the value. It's how I see myself is almost stepping away from volume and increasing on that value piece. So I might work with fewer people at higher value and focus on building the illumination business. So I I because I, you know, when I'm coaching people now, they may have a few sessions with me. And I would say in the majority of cases, people are coming away with some fairly significant impacts, you know, big changes in mindsets, big shifts in career outcomes, results. So I like to work deep with people in a way that's really impactful, and I'd like to focus on that as well and grow that as the part of the coaching business.

Pedro 26:59

Okay, you know, and whenever we're aiming towards the next chapter, Hazel, always something we're refining in the present, right? So what are you currently trying to improve or tighten up in your business right now?

Hazel Russo 27:09

I guess one of the things is around my visibility and lead generation. So, how do I make myself more visible to the sorts of people that I want to work with? And last year I put myself in a business development program to support me to really kind of immerse myself in the world of that. I know I can't do it all on my own, so I look to the people who've done it before me, who I can learn from, and learnt a lot about creating community. So I think this is a new thing. I'm beginning to create community, um, raise my own visibility to support more leads coming in, and then as I talked about the scaling, and then have people who can support me with managing leads and how that goes forward in the sales process. So there's some of that kind of business development that I'm working on at the moment. That's my live edge.

Pedro 27:51

Okay. You know, I I want to tap into your experience for a second, because people listening can really benefit from this, you know, Hazel, because you've been in the gang long enough to hear all kinds of business advice. Some are good, some are bad, you know. And especially you're very well connected with coaches. So we can we can have a an idea uh we can have a grasp of how do you think about this. So, what's one piece of business advice you hear all the time that you think is overrated or misunderstood, you know?

Hazel Russo 28:18

Overrated or misunderstood. Well, I mean, I guess there's something there's a lot of marketeers who might shout at the whatever device they're listening on. When I think about the niche question, find your niche, I know that's a big piece of marketing advice. I might fly in the face of that and say, learn to trust yourself and find what works for you. Now, for some people, they may have a really clear niche from the outset, but for others, like for me growing up, they might not know what they want to do as coaches. Like, I don't know who my ideal clients are yet. So I would say experiment and see if you can find people to coach to begin to work out who are your ideal clients. Because once you've got that clear, then you can focus on that, then you can talk about that. Also, you build up the repertoire of what you can say. You know, when someone says to you, So what kind of people do you coach? You can say something about the kind of people that you coach or the kind of experiences, the kind of outcomes that your clients get. So I don't know if that answers your question, but that's what came to mind for me.

Pedro 29:15

Sounds good. And on the other side, what's a piece of advice you wish more people actually took seriously, you know?

Hazel Russo 29:21

In terms of business advice, I do think it's worth speaking, getting some guidance around business development, which is different. There's something around the mindset. So as a coach, I have worked with many coaches, you know, when when I'm supervising coaches who are struggling to build the business because they're focusing on the coaching. So there is something about the mindset of developing a way to recognise yes, you're a coach, you're also running a business. I mean, it's the question that you asked me earlier. What do you need to focus on? You know, what what are your goals? So, one thing I did, for example, last year I wrote a five-year plan for the business, and I broke that down into one-year plans, and then I have a rolling three-month plan. So I would say if you're thinking about your business, it doesn't matter how small, apparently small a goal might be, set a goal and then create a plan for it for your coaching business. It could be how many clients do you want to have by the end of the year? I mean, these are coaching questions. If you had that number of clients, what would be happening? How would it be working for you? What would you be saying to people? You know, these are coaching questions. What would if you want to be there by the end of the year, where would you need to be in six months? Where would you need to be in three months? Where would you be need to be at the end of the month? So what do you need to do next week to make that happen? So it's kind of getting getting really pragmatic about the sorts of steps that someone could take to begin to aim for that coaching business goal.

Pedro 30:38

Okay. You know, and if someone listening wants to connect with you or follow your work, Hazel, where can people find you and connect with you and even find lumination, you know?

Hazel Russo 30:46

Sure. So I'm on LinkedIn at Hazel Russo, and my website is hazelruso.com. So through either of those, people can reach out to me. Yeah, I'd love to hear from people. Excuse me, information about illumination is up there too, so people can see it all.

Pedro 31:00

You know, there were a few moments from this conversation today that really stayed with me. I'll put it like that. You know, first of all, when we were talking about the origin story, when you told me that you had no idea what I'm gonna do, you know, when I grow up, I love that, you know. It's like I always uh picture this kid called Timmy, he's five, and he tells me he's gonna be a fireman, you know, and he's got all figured out. But in reality, you know, that's not how how life plays along for most people. It's like we we're figuring it out as long as as we're in the journey, right? Like you you like you did. You tested, you saw what clicked for you, and all that. So I really, I really like your your I would say even vulnerability about the subject, you know, because I I always say this in this in the show, is like I think vulnerability is a key asset for a true coach, because you can meet your coache in the same level, right? Because gonna you're gonna ask hard questions. It's only fair you you're you're as vulnerable as the person in front of you. So this is one thing. The other thing is like how you have that mindset of walking the talk, you know, you gotta walk the talk, Pedro. That's what you told me. And and sometimes it's having skin in the game, too, right? It's like, how are you going to? And this is always go back to me, it's like how are you gonna ask for a high ticket? Usually coaching is a high ticket, right? When you haven't yourself bought one, or if you haven't yourself did some of the business development, you're sometimes telling people to look into, you know, because they need to solve the problem X, Y, and Z as a senior leader, for example. And last but not least, I I really enjoyed the your pricing journey. I'll put it like that, you know? And and how the you're not shying away from obstacles, you're just being real, you know, Hazel, about the the the the early days and where you came to the place you are right now. So, Hazel, I appreciate what you do, and I appreciate you being here and sharing it so openly today, okay? Great having you on.

Hazel Russo 32:44

Thank you. Thank you, Pedro. I've enjoyed it, thank you very much.

Davis Nguyen 32:47

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This podcast was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, or even $100,000 weeks, all without burning out and making sure that you're making the impact and having the life that you want. To learn more about our community and how we can help you, visit join purplecircle.com.