Purpose vs Profit Is a Lie Here’s the Truth with Margaret Romney

In this episode of Career Coaching Secrets our guest is Margaret Romney, a business strategist and coach known for helping purpose-driven professionals bridge the gap between meaningful work and sustainable profit. Margaret shares powerful insights on navigating the tension between impact and income, why so many heart-centered entrepreneurs struggle to scale, and how to build a business that aligns with both your values and financial goals without burning out. Whether you're early in your career or refining your path, this conversation dives into the mindset, strategy, and emotional intelligence required to thrive in today’s evolving professional landscape.

You can find her on:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaretwattsromney
https://www.instagram.com/margaretwattsromney/
https://thespeakershiplab.com/
You can find her book here:
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/speakership-is-leadership-margaret-watts-watts-romney/1144463891
http://bookshop.org/p/books/speakership-is-leadership-a-guide-for-sudden-leaders-who-need-to-lead-with-their-words-yesterday-margaret-watts-romney/fc064f2a8b25c6f9
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CPCYP497

Transcript

Margaret Romney 0:00

I did not build my business by coaching for free. I built my business by volunteering my time inside organizations where I got connections and where I got experience. And so when I the the hundreds or maybe thousands of hours I have volunteering were within my specific niche at the time of public speaking and TED Talks. So I was able to join in with different local TEDx events and work with the speakers. And sometimes that meant I was stuffing envelopes. Sometimes that meant I was sweeping floors. Sometimes it meant I could work with a former CEO of a billion-dollar company. Like you go in and you just like, and now I have those relationships.

Davis Nguyen 0:44

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets, the podcast where we talk with successful career coaches on how they built their success and the hard lessons they learned along the way. My name is Davis Wynne, and I'm the founder of Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to $100,000 years, $100,000 months, and even $100,000 weeks. Before Purple Circle, I've grown several seven and eight figure career coaching businesses myself and have been a consultant at two career coaching businesses that are doing over $100 million each. Whether you're an established coach or building your practice for the first time, you'll discover the secrets to elevating your coaching business.

Pedro 1:15

Welcome to Career Coaching Secrets Podcast. I'm Pedro and today I'm joined by Margaret Romney, founder of the speakership lab, who has spent over 10,000 hours working with everyone from individual contributors stepping to leadership to C-suite executives navigating high-stakes transitions. What sets Margaret apart is her development of narrative thinking, a brain-based methodology that helps technical experts and leaders translate their complex knowledge into clear communication that actually drives growth and results. Margaret's approach addresses the gap between what experts know and what they want to happen next, focusing on four critical areas vision clarity, executive presence, strategic messaging, and collaborative leadership. Her work with over a hundred TEDx speakers and enterprise organizations proves that when leaders learn to communicate as strategically as they think, they don't just get better at talking, they become genuinely influential leaders who can guide rooms and create lasting impact. Welcome to the show, Margaret.

Margaret Romney 2:36

Thank you, Pedro. It's a pleasure to be here.

Pedro 2:39

Yeah, I'm excited that you're here from the day we met. And before we get in what you do now, I'm curious how this all actually started. You know, so what was going on in your life when coaching became more than just an idea?

Margaret Romney 2:55

So in my I think my the very first spark of coaching for me happened all by myself on a really dark night in January, winter. I was somebody had sent me a video of she's like, you've got to see this, you've got to see this. And it was a TED talk. And it was the first time I'd seen a TED talk. And I pulled open my screen and I saw the person walk out on stage and I saw them speak to the audience with such warmth and interest and impact. And I thought to myself, I've got to do that. And what I was talking about and what I was thinking wasn't actually the person on the stage. I could tell, I could sort of sense it, feel it. There was a whole bunch of people that had helped this person prepare for that moment, that had helped them think through what's their message, what is the stories they want to tell, how do they use their body language and breaking things down into small enough bits so the audience understands. And that's what I wanted. That's what I wanted to do. And that's what started me on the path of seeking to be a communication consultant and um and working with TEDx speakers.

Pedro 4:10

Okay. So you're like, oh my God, it's not just about the person that's speaking and the energy, but the backstage work, right? To what led to that point, right? I think that's very interesting. You want to understand the mechanics behind the scenes, you know. Now I'm curious at at what point did it stop feeling like, you know, in the early days for coaching, a side thing or a calling, and start feeling like an actual business you are responsible for, you know. Like I'm not sure if it's the LLC moment, the in the first invoice, the first paying client, but when that shift happened, I think for most coaches, there's there's two moments like that.

Margaret Romney 4:48

One is the first time you receive a check, the first time I was sitting with a person, she was it was we were across the table from each other, and there wasn't that much Venmo. This and she I she literally pulled out her checkbook, put my name on it, and put my hourly amount that I had said to her. And that changed everything. Like, okay, this works, and somebody wants to do this. So there's that moment that was revolutionary, and then the next moment is when you can have the guts to, and you've got and your business has grown enough, you can step away from the day job. I think a lot of us, you kind of have to keep both for a while because you need to keep food on the table, you need to keep secure, and so you're double timing it for a while, which I I did too. I put in hundreds, thousands of hours maybe of volunteering with TED and TEDx speakers, and just built that reputation, built those relationships, built that network until I was ready to leave the day job and go full time.

Pedro 5:52

Okay, interesting. I want to dive into a little bit, you know, one thing you mentioned. You you did it sounds like some pro bono work, right? Some free work. So, and I I see a lot of coaches that they tell me like this, like, hey Pedro, you know, sometimes I'm trying to do to help people even for free, and they don't put in the work. It sounds like they don't have enough commitment or they don't have enough skin in the game, you know, and they they don't do the work at home, they they don't even show up sometimes, they know show. So, how was that for you? You know, did you felt like not having skin in the game with something like not having the the the money, you know, uh was something that affected that, or do you think like you see it differently? How that how did that played out for you?

Margaret Romney 6:35

For me, it was really different. I know what you're talking about. I've seen I've also met coaches and myself worked with a coach who was in that position. They she had just finished a coaching program. She's like, I just need the hours, I need the recommendations. Can I coach you for free? And I felt myself not show up. And I felt myself like, oh, well, I'm not really paying for this, so I'll just cancel this one, and or it didn't show up. And so that's a real problem with coaches. What I did in my work is I I actually have never is that true? I did not build my business by coaching for free. I built my business by volunteering my time inside organizations where I got connections and where I got experience. And so when I the the the hundreds or maybe thousands of hours I have volunteering were within my specific niche at the time of public speaking and TED Talks. So I was able to join in with different local TEDx events and work with the speakers. And sometimes that meant I was stuffing envelopes, sometimes that meant I was sweeping floors, sometimes it meant I could work with a former CEO of a billion-dollar company. Like you go in and you just like, and now I have those relationships, and those were some of the most priceless recommendations on my LinkedIn when I very first started.

Pedro 7:59

Wow, sweeping floors, that's powerful. You know, it's it reminds me sometimes of in a different industry, like in the the restaurant industry. Sometimes they have like these guys that are trying to get into a three-star Michelin restaurant, you know, and they're like, Okay, you can start picking up the trash, you know.

Margaret Romney 8:15

And they have like they're like, Yep, thank you.

Pedro 8:17

Yep, thank you. And they have this huge background already, but they're like, You're nobody here, you're gonna start from scratch, you know. So I think that's also a sign that you're well, it shows that you're humble, you know, and you're you're willing to put in the work. Now, I'm curious, like once you were out there, you know, helping people, who did you naturally end up attracting? I know we mentioned a little bit, you know, about the communication consultant and all that, but in the early days, coaches are sometimes trying to embrace the entire world, let's put it like that. They're trying to help everyone, right? So, when did you realize, even if you got to that point, yeah, these these are the people I work best with, you know?

Margaret Romney 8:55

Yeah, I think there's just to put one specific point on your question. And in my play, when I was in that or those early stages, I also made that mistake. Oh, I'll work with anyone, which I can serve everyone, which actually under the surface meant I'll serve anybody who can write me a check. Like you're willing to, we'll just take money from anybody. And it for me, it worked much better when I could niche down what am I really, really interested in that I will show up to over and over again, even if I weren't being paid. What are the what are the specific ways that my brain works and that I naturally think and speak and am interested in? And for me personally, that was in more areas of STEM, more areas of academia. And so that started with the TEDx speakers, all of these experts in their field and interesting scientific topics, and that then continued. My first clients were in um in high tech. And in and they and it was that them learning how to communicate more. And then I realized over time, oh, this is who I'm actually vibing with the most. This is who I can serve the most, because I'm a little bit of a nerd at heart, and I could break things down in a way that they appreciated. I could share the why that they appreciated. I could go into some neurological scientific background that they appreciated. We could geek out together. I and um so finding it's I think the journey of being a coach is partially a journey of finding yourself as well. Who, where are my strengths and what do I want to keep showing up to? What are the gifts that I can keep bringing day after day?

Pedro 10:42

Okay, so high tech, you mentioned, right?

Margaret Romney 10:46

I said high tech, and as I said that, I'm like, what do I mean by high? I'm not sure what I by like soft at this point my career, I've worked with people either in um software or software execution or data security, storage, AI, but that's branched out to what I found is I really like working with people who have a deep knowledge in one area. So I'll work with a I have a couple of people in finance, they love the numbers, they love the spreadsheets, they love all of the nerdy language around, you know, short selling and commodities and all kinds of things that I don't know that much of. But they need to bridge to speaking to normal people. How do they cross that bridge when someone is so immersed in their specialist world, they forget that the the water they swim in and the air they breathe is not understandable to the general public? How do they speak human?

Pedro 11:53

Yes, I feel I feel like that, like in my skin sometimes. Like I'm a dad, right? So I have two kids, and sometimes you're like way up here explaining something. You need to get like get like 10 steps back and beginning from scratch, right? And and then it's just like no hell, we do things as this, this, and this. So yeah, I think uh I get what you're saying. Now I'm I'm curious about one thing, right? I'm gonna do a little bit of exercise here. Let's pretend I'm your ICP, right? Your client profile, right? Uh, tech side, you know, software execution data. You mentioned like financial. Let's say I'm the the person that actually is your ICP. So, how would I, first of all, find you in the first place, marketing-wise?

Margaret Romney 12:37

Marketing-wise, uh, for me, it is usually word of mouth. I find especially with people in this tech or specialist area, they're very, very discerning. They are not scrolling on Instagram a lot. They are very selective about what relationships they have, what media they intake. I'm working on a podcast right now that speaks very specifically to them. And I have to be very careful that it's that it yeah, it reaches them because they are, but they do have for my people, when they have a very trusted colleague or friend or boss, and that person says, You've got to work with the speakership lab, you've got to meet Margaret, they will take that call. Even if they don't see their own need at the moment, they're like, Got it. If you say so, yes, I'll meet them. And then we have a conversation, and they slowly through us discussing things, I realize, you know, there are a few places where I'm not making the impact I want. I don't know how to show up in this room in that room. I don't know how to, I'm I'm running into blocks trying to guide this member on my team, and that one just bugs the crap out of me. So, how do I talk with them? And they realize language and finding their own bucket of speakership tools is something they want to pursue.

Pedro 14:06

Okay, okay, same exercise still. Um, let's pretend I'm that guy, right? My boss told me, Hey, you gotta call Margaret, the speakership lab, and all that. I eventually did. Okay, we hop on a call, whatever your sales process looks like. Okay. Uh, there's alignment. I'm like, okay, this seems cool. This seems exactly what I need. Uh, I ended up closing. I'm now a client being unboarded. So, what does that look like from my perspective? Structure wise, right? Is that a one-on-one? Is there a one-to-many component? How does that play out? And also, what outcomes should I expect getting out of you know, working with your company?

Margaret Romney 14:43

Wow, that is a fast process, and you skip like a lot of steps that are very important along the way that would inform what we're doing now.

Pedro 14:52

Okay, I said that I had alignment, but you can walk me through it.

Margaret Romney 14:57

So, first of all, what is that? So, in our alignment that we've already been through, that we've already discussed and we found works beautifully. Is this alignment a child is the challenge that you're looking for something for yourself or something for your team? Are you looking to develop and upgrade the how your whole team shows up and speaks, or are you looking for yourself?

Pedro 15:23

Interesting. Well, first of all, walk me through the one that is more the most common, okay? That the the the the event that usually happens, right? It could be a team, it could be a one you name it. You just pick one and we go from there.

Margaret Romney 15:37

Okay. Since this is a coaching podcast, I'll go with the one-on-one because it's about 50-50. So you so here we are. We've got alignment. Pedro and Margaret see the same way. We were excited to work together. We've seen what Pedro wants to accomplish. You're and we see the gaps along the way. So we're working one-on-one. The very first thing we do in our session, in our first session, is we find language that's exciting for you, for who is your future speakership self. What does that look like? And what actually, how do you want to show up differently? What are we solving along the way? And we work together either depending on your schedule, once a month or every other week in our sessions. And what I do when I work with people is I find that they also, especially since we're talking about communication, it works so well to have other people to practice with, other people to have this, to practice this skill with. So when I work with people one-on-one, they're also invited to my client group, sort of a mastermind where people can practice telling stories, where they can come and say, Man, I've got this really hard negotiation tomorrow. What words should I say to help me get my way in this? Or I've got to fire somebody. Have any of you done that before? What words do I say? How do I prepare my own mindset before I go into this exchange? So I know that I have done my best to honor them and to go through it as smoothly as I can, even a situation that's going to be bad. So I do it's a combination of both. Yes, we're working one-on-one. We're facing your challenges and obstacles and pulling out exercises for you along the way, but also the group.

Pedro 17:28

Okay. And what outcomes should I expect from that?

Margaret Romney 17:32

What outcomes do you desire from that?

Pedro 17:36

Okay. You know, when you mentioned the the how to fire someone, my my ADHD brain immediately got into like Donald Trump. You remember that that show he had with like you're fired, and it's just that okay, nice. Okay, I got it, got it. Okay, and it it really depends about the outcome I'm looking for. So I really like that too. It sounds like, and I'm gonna play devil's advocate right now. Go for it, because your work seem seems pretty involved. We're talking about almost to an extent a custom experience, right? The one in ones, we have the one in many, you're working on a podcast. Oh my god, that's a lot, right? So, in the coaching space, I see a lot of coaches advocating against burnout, but sometimes they burn out themselves, right? So, how do you think about managing your time and energy so the business doesn't start owning you, you know?

Margaret Romney 18:28

That's a great question. And I I went through that a few years ago and I looked back at my calendar and I was so proud. It was the biggest year I'd ever had, um, and the most clients I'd ever had. And at the end of the year, I was like, I can't do this again. That I was just exhausted into the marrow of my bones. And I went through with a coach friend of mine looking really carefully at my calendar. Where are the places that I feel filled up? Where are the places that I feel depleted? Where are the times looking back at my calendar that I would do that again in a heartbeat? And what events or programs did I run that make my heart sink? Even though I love the people I'm working with, there's just what are the patterns that just deplete my own energy? And the next year I set myself up that way. And sometimes it was just small things, like if I'm traveling, I'm only traveling and I'm not also trying to see friends and make client calls at home and you know, keeping in touch with family. I'm only traveling and I leave space, or I leaned more towards peep bringing people into my group programs and my group training instead. And the end of that second year, I had served more people, had more clients, made more money than I had the year before, and my hours were fewer and I felt much more energized.

Pedro 19:58

So there is a component, it sounds like like intention behind everything you do. Like, oh, I'm traveling, I'm traveling. It's not like trying to do multitasking or something like that. It's just like focusing on the one thing you're trying to accomplish. I got that right.

Margaret Romney 20:13

For me, that was really important. I work with other colleagues where they, if they're trying to do one thing, it feels to them like they're a steam engine being contained inside of a metal safe. They're just like the pressure's there. They need to go like this. They need to go ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And then they feel then that gives them energy. Then they feel like they're at their best. And for me, I am like a deep focus thinker, and I need to, and that's how I feel revived and not burned out at the end of a work session, is if I got to focus in and do deep work.

Pedro 20:51

Got it. Interesting. Okay. Now, I want to talk a little bit about a topic that I see a lot of coaches struggling with, and I feel like you can deliver so much about this, uh, which is pricing. Okay. We're not talking about hard numbers. I'll put it like that. It's more about the mindset behind it, you know, because that's a topic every coach evolves on. It's sometimes it's a self-worth path, too. It's like, am I charging too much? Am I not charging enough? And there's pro bono and all that, and you're trying to pay your bills and you know, scarcity mindset. So, how do you approach that now? And what did you have to learn the hard way to get where you are right now?

Margaret Romney 21:32

That's a really important question. And I'm going to to answer this, I'm going to use um part of my system of narrative thinking. And that is our our brains are always our brains understand the world by putting things into stories and understanding who is involved, where are we, what's the outcome that we're looking for. And frequently, for myself, just like you mentioned, when people People have a hard time with pricing, it's because they're story about themselves. I am not worth it. What I'm giving isn't valuable enough. Somebody is going to reject me. All of these are stories that the brain is running through in its in its default mode network that doesn't actually have anything to do with reality. And so finding systems to understand the stories that your brain is creating on its own so that you can step away from them and you can instead look at the numbers objectively. Objectively, this is a number that most coaches are are charging. Got it. I am most coaches. I can I can think of myself like most coaches, so I can do that number. So and there's and so trying to depersonalize it, trying to look at it in terms of a bigger system, a bigger story. This isn't about just me and my checkbook. Is somebody paying for my time and it I worth it? And how many hours did I? No, no, no, no. I'm looking at a bigger story. I am serving somebody, and they are making change. My help to them is changing their whole world, which will bring abundance into their life. And the exchange for that is them bringing some abundance and life force into my life. And I don't work with people until we have that agreement because that's an energetic agreement until they have assigned, signed the agreement form and we're there, then that is their permission for me to work with them and for us to do this deeper work together. And so, yeah, it's checking out our stories and making sure that they are we're not making things up, that we're finding where those old stories came from so we can set them aside and create a new story.

Pedro 23:58

Interesting. I love how you actually in the yards and story you framed it like you had a uh you had a you know an income already and you replaced it, right? With your coaching practice. So it's not just um I'll I'll put it candidly, it's not just about the mindset, it's also a little bit of reality, right? Because it's hard to keep at bay the scarcity mindset when you have when you have like early coaches and they just took a leap of faith and they have bills knocking on their door, right? So it's hard to navigate that, right?

Margaret Romney 24:30

Yeah, really, really hard. I've seen that too. I've seen so many people, they like they leave their job, they take their savings, they put it into a coaching program, they're in the coaching program for you know months or a year, and they think that after that there'll be a new life, and it takes a long time to build that reputation, build those that network, build that experience, build the understanding of how to bring people into your practice.

Pedro 25:00

Okay, enough with the past. I want to talk a little bit off the future, okay? Great. So shifting gears right now, Margaret. Like, what's the direction you're aiming this business towards? You already mentioned a podcast. So are you thinking more about growth, leverage, building a team, or refining what already works? You know, what feels most exciting for you right now?

Margaret Romney 25:21

Yeah, it feels really exciting to me to build the speakership lab brand to spread the word of narrative thinking for our communication, for people to think about their own communication and as a skill that they're building, as an awareness they have of how do I want to show up in the world? How do I want people to remember me? What's the impact I want to have? And how can I use my words to shape that? And by, and so you asked about the the future, the speakership lab. Right now we've got a team of three, and we've got other partners, and we want to, yeah, just keep expanding. How many other coaches can we bring into the awareness and use of narrative thinking and speakership and spreading the word that way as well?

Pedro 26:22

That's interesting. I feel like it's exciting. I mean, already three, and you're looking forward for even more, and there's a podcast. Okay. Now, even when things are going well, you know, there's always something under construction, under the hood that we're working on. So, what's the main thing you're actively working on or trying to improve in the business right now?

Margaret Romney 26:42

The main thing that I'm working on right now. So, personally, I don't know if what I'm going to share is going to be applicable to your users, but maybe it is, because this is a day and an age of a lot of um transience. So, over the past few, my career and my my business, I started out in the west in Salt Lake City and in Denver, Colorado area. Amazing Denver and special lake, amazing community to build a business and to network and to have people, you know, connect you to their connections. And it was a fantastic place. A few years ago, I moved to the East Coast. Um, I was in Maine for a few years, and then my partner and I recently moved to Vermont. And my biggest um awareness and push right now is to bring more of my business, is to build the awareness and connections and network here on the east coast as well. Not travel so much, it takes an entire day to get back over to my clients in California. I adore them and they will always be a priority. And wouldn't it be great to just, you know, travel a couple hours down to Boston to meet people too? So that's what I'm working on right now is expanding that and building close to home. Okay.

Pedro 28:00

Interesting. I feel like I need to highlight on that a little bit because it sounds like a a new beginning, right? And then sometimes that's scary, sometimes it played like, like, what would you say is the thing that happened that you didn't expect it the most when you made the move, right? When you shifted towards Colorado to the uh the East Coast, right?

Margaret Romney 28:23

What was the thing that happened that I didn't expect? So many things.

Pedro 28:34

Yeah, I'm thinking like the coach in the same shoes, or thinking about that guy that or girl that is trying to make the same move, right? And you're like, hey, I wish you knew that because I've been there.

Margaret Romney 28:46

Yeah. If I could talk to my old self before I moved to, I live in Vermont now. If I could talk to my um Colorado self and say something about to how to prepare for the Vermont self, that is show up as a learner. A lot of the ways that I would show up in rooms in Denver, they just don't hit the same here. It's a different culture, it's a different style. Um, what's important to people is a little bit different. And like when I showed up to client meetings or networking events or whatever that have been in Las Vegas or California, your vibe, my vibe was really important. Like, how is my energy? What's my look? What's my and I'm you know, middle-aged getting wrinkly person. So yes. Good answer. Good answer. But there's still you you come, you show up as your best self. And here it is much more quiet. It takes more time, it takes more time to build the trust. There's more trust, there's a lot of trust here around what organizations you're connected to rather than how you show up as an individual. And I I haven't made like huge blunders, but I and I did a pretty good job of showing up observant, but still like thinking I knew the rooms. Like, you don't know the room. Get to know the room, get to know the area before you start really um telling them what you can offer them because you don't know who they are yet. Figure out who they are. Who are the people here? What do they need? What are their challenges? What is the context around them? What are they, what are the stories they're in the middle of? What's the hero's journey they're in the middle of doing and building and creating?

Pedro 30:45

So it's like really, really go for a deep dive into their culture, the place you're settling in to understand how they how they think, how they move, and how they go for on a daily basis, something like that.

Margaret Romney 31:00

Yeah, and what's important to them? What are their values?

Pedro 31:04

Interesting. Okay, okay, you know, you've been around uh long enough to see trend trends come and go, right, Margaret? And people give business advice non-stop, especially online, right? AI is dead, AI is gonna take over, next post, right? So there's a lot out there, a lot of noise. So, what would you say is something you hear repeated a lot that you think people misunderstand or potentially overvalue?

Speaker 31:33

In the business space?

Pedro 31:35

I would say it could be in your own space too, if you feel more comfortable to talk about that. Really depends.

Speaker 31:41

But people misunderstand.

Margaret Romney 31:46

I think the thing that I have seen the most common for especially coaches and new entrepreneurs is there is a there's a hesitancy and a almost a cringe against the word selling. And I think that the art of a good quote unquote sale is the same as an act of generosity and an act of creative of co-creation when it's when it's really done well. Selling is two different parties coming together and making something new or possible that wasn't there before they came together. And I know in my experience and in my conversing with new on new coaches, new entrepreneurs, there's such a there's a real hesitancy around coming across as salesy. I mean, first of all, yes, nobody wants a product shoved down their throat, nobody wants that. So what is this delicate dance of somebody offering something and somebody needing that something? How do those tope two entities come together in a way that feels respectful and honoring and builds trust so that they know and want to keep coming together over and over again into the future?

Pedro 33:27

I love the different lens, it's more about serving, not necessarily pushing an agenda, right? And I feel like coaches they struggle a lot with that because they well, at the end of the day, the they love the practice, right? The coaching itself, most of them, and they're so focused on it, and they got it kind of icky when they have to sell it. And the thing is, I suspect is like they get that because they're thinking about their past experiences, right? The bad sales rap that just try to push them into something, and they're like, I don't want to be that guy. So, okay, don't be right, don't be that guy, try something different, right? So I love that reminder, powerful one.

Margaret Romney 34:08

Okay, now what would you say is like on the flip side, like something boring or not as hyped that I wish more people actually paid attention to the thing that I think is so important that can really feel boring, that feels very unimportant in the moment is listening. It's just so important for a coach or somebody who's offering a service to not talk, to not talk about that service. So many of us, when we get with a client, we want to say, Oh my gosh, we're gonna do great things, and you're gonna do this, and I'm gonna give you this, and there's this tool and this tool. No, I actually just went through this experience over the past week with my I will I'll keep it anonymous, but I was buying a service from a company, and we had our first meeting together for an hour, and I have an AI note taker in there, and my AI note taker tells me what percentage of the time I'm speaking, which is a great way for me to gauge if where I'm at with it. If I'm coaching somebody and I have spoken more than 35% of the time, I have said too much. I the the the sessions that feel the best to me and where they walk away the best, that number is less than 40. The times when if I'm in a session and somebody's coaching me, the numbers that the where I get the most value, my numbers are around 70. Anyway, I'm with this other company. My talking time was about 15%. They asked me two questions about what I was looking for, and my answers, you know, were in that 15%. And the whole rest of the time they were talking about their program. And the whole rest of the time they talked about all the tools that they've got and how great this was and who was going to be doing what. And at the end, I actually like called them a day later. I'm like, can we have another chat? I'm not sure we're aligned. And I just needed to like, here's what I want, here's what I'm hoping, here's what I like. I just needed to share my vision, share where I was. Here is the context, here's what I'm sitting in, here's what I'm looking at, here's where I want to go. What do you see me? Do you understand me and where I am? And after that second conversation, I felt much better.

Pedro 36:45

Okay, you gave them a chance. I'll tell you that. You're doing them their work. Oh my God. Okay, you're going to heaven. Okay. Now be I mean, that oh my God, you know, they they I don't think they deserve you, but let's go for it. Okay. And before before we close this out, if someone resonated with what you shared and wants to follow your work, where should they go, Margaret?

Margaret Romney 37:12

Uh, so I'm on LinkedIn. We're very active there sharing stories of things that we've noticed in rooms around communication and brain-based reasons why they're happening and specifics that people can take away for their own for their own speaking skills. Um, LinkedIn, Instagram, and our website is thespeakershiplab.com, where soon summer, June 20th, uh, we'll have our podcast there.

Pedro 37:43

Exciting. Okay. Now there were a few moments from this chat that really stood out to me. Okay, I would say put it like that. I think first the first thing is like the origin story, right? When you watch that first TED talk, and I think it's so so funny that you're like, I don't want to be necessarily that person talking, I want to understand the what's what's happening behind the scenes, right? I think that that is like it shows a little bit of your personality. I think I may be off here, but it's like how do you think about things? Also, when you got that first person writing a check, you know, and even then, right? Old school style. It's like it's writing a check in front of you. It's more powerful, right? Than than just getting a money transfer from your bank account or whatever. It's not as you know, as thrilling, but it's like I love that aha moment, okay. That shift. And um also you you were so vulnerable the entire episode, I would say, you know, when you're like, oh, I'm just accepting taking money from anybody, you know, in the early days, uh, and then you were sweeping floors, and when you told me you went through burnout yourself. I mean, at the end of the day, Margaret, I always say this when I feel like it in the show. It's like, I feel like the most powerful asset a true coach can have is being vulnerable. Because when you ask tough questions for your coaches, right? It sometimes it's it's hard to be in their own place. And if you're being vulnerable yourself, too, you meet them in their same level. It's like, oh, okay, she's been through that. I can resonate with that. She's being vulnerable, I can resonate with that too. So that is very interesting, very powerful too. Powerful reminder. Now, last but not least, um, I would say it's when you mentioned the sales bit, not talk about the service. It's like, let's talk about Aruba, right? Let's talk about the the outcome. Not let's not talk about the flight plan, which nobody cares, right? It's like my wife the other day was like, Hey, I she took the car to the mechanic. We had a problem with the vehicle, and she was like, Hey, he was explaining me all of this to me. I I didn't even understand what he's talking to me. And I just asked him, okay, will you will you be able to fix the car? Am I am I getting what I'm looking for? You know, basically what you did um when you called them. So kudos to you. Okay. Now, this is my long-winded way of saying, Margaret. Sorry about the TED talk here myself, that I really appreciate you taking the time and being open with this, you know? Great having you one.

Margaret Romney 40:23

Thank you so much, Pedro. I so appreciate it.

Davis Nguyen 40:26

That's it for this episode of Career Coaching Secrets. If you enjoyed this conversation, you can subscribe to YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening to this episode to catch future episodes. This conversation was brought to you by Purple Circle, where we help career coaches scale their business to seven and eight figures without burning out. To learn more about Purple Circle, our community, and how we can help you grow your business, visit joinpurplecircle.com.